46: Jeanette Bronée on Food & the Stories We Tell Ourselves

Welcome to the Mutually Amazing Podcast. I'm your host, Mike Domitrz, with the Center for Respect. The episode you're about to listen to was recorded when this show used to be called the Respect Podcast. So, you might hear that mentioned during this episode. Well, let's get to the show. And welcome to this week's episode. We want to get right into this and introduce you to Jeanette Brunet. Is that correct pronunciation, Jeanette?

You are very close indeed.

Okay. I found it. Path for Life in 2004 to bring awareness to our own power for taking charge of our health and avoiding burnout while also seeking optimal performance at work. She helps leaders and companies rethink performance and culture to create sustainable success. She believes that our best resource is our humanity. And she has given TEDx talks and speaks at conferences and corporate events about why the competitive edge we are looking for comes from the inside out. Thank you so much, Jeanette, for joining us.

Thank you.

What is the correct pronunciation?

Jeanette Broné.

Jeanette Broné?

Yeah.

All right. Excellent. I had to go way back to my middle school French class. So there we go. Yeah. So thank you for joining us and you dive right into the conversation here as far as Why you do this work. You made a big path change about, I believe, 15 years ago. And so I'm going to let you describe what shifted in your life. What were you doing and what shifted you towards this?

Yes. Um, I am born in Denmark. So even though my name is French, um, that's just because of my heritage in that. So when I came from Denmark, um, at 26, I was in the fashion industry and marketing and, and continued in that world after I came to New York. And then all of a sudden, I get a phone call and my parents are telling me that my dad has cancer. And a lot shifted at that time because all of a sudden we had to have all our focus on how do we figure out how to take care of him. And he was telling me he was between stage 3 and 4. So my job was sort of taking most of my time and most of my effort. And it was a bit of a conflict there between all of a sudden taking care of my parents. I brought them to America to come and get treated there. Within 3 months, my mother got cancer too. All of a sudden, I had 2 people in cancer therapy in 2 different countries at the same time. And needless to say, it was difficult. But what also happened was that my mother died suddenly 3 months later after she got her cancer. Job fired me. They fired me because now I had to take care of my dad. And, um, it was such a clash of everything because not only had I given everything to my work, my career, but I also was facing this, um, situation where, wait a minute, these people that I care so much about, these people that I thought were around forever, or at least till they got older, All of a sudden that all changed and I had to really sit down and think about how do I choose to live my life? Uh, because, um, within a year after that, my dad was gone too. And so it was a big shift and change for me to really look at what matters and why I do what I do. And I decided it was time to help people.

I love that. And you've talked about the fact that the industry you were in, the fashion industry, It was a very disrespectful industry. What do you mean by that?

Um, partly the, the idea that we— they sort of looked at, um, self-care as something that— why, why, why would you need that? Like, nobody needs to take care of themselves. You just need to work all the time. So that was part of it. Um, you know, my boss would say things to me like, I don't need lunch, why do you? And but also, people are working basically 24/7, which was one of the reasons why they thought I couldn't do my job and take care of my parents at the same time. So, so that was one part of it. And the other part of it is just that the relationships in that industry are under a lot of pressure because of the way the industry works. The industry is very both deadline-oriented, very result-oriented, which is fine. But when When really it's about relationships in, in that industry as well as any other industry. It was forgotten. It was forgotten that it was really the relationships that carry us through into really thriving and performing at our best. And people were burning out left and right.

Yeah. And there are many industries. There's probably lots of people listening right now that can relate to this going, geez, my industry has a lot of burnout too, for— it could be various different reasons. So you, you step away, your dad passes away, and now you are starting on your own. You're starting your own business with— what was your goal at that moment when you decided, hey, I'm gonna speak out on— what was your mindset at that point? What was the topic you wanted to address?

Yeah, I was personally told that it was only a matter of when I was gonna get cancer too now, because both my parents were gone and, you know, they were sort of assuming that because of my family history. Um, this was, you know, 15 years ago, so we didn't know as much about How our genes come into expression and how much we can take care of ourselves. And I got a little, for lack of a better word, pissed off. I didn't want that verdict. I didn't want to just be a victim of my history. I wanted to know how I could affect my destiny. And I also felt that people didn't know enough about taking care of themselves. So I completely shifted and changed and went back to school and studied nutrition. Now, I had already studied nutrition for my own sake, and I had studied mindfulness for years and been a practitioner of mindfulness for years. So it wasn't completely foreign to me. It was more of this is my personal passion and why can't I do this for other people too? So I founded Path for Life because I wanted people to not only get the tools to take better care of themselves and take charge of them and of their health, but also kind of knowing that it's okay that we do that, that, that we, we, we matter. And one of the things I think was the big wake-up call for me was this idea that The relationship we have with our very own body is one of just using it. And what we really need to do is start honoring and respecting it because it is really our most essential tool for doing everything we're doing every day, right?

So when somebody says, yeah, but, you know, I mean, if I can't enjoy all the desserts and the burgers and the fries, I mean, what's good living if you can't enjoy it? How do you respond to those comments?

I have 2 comments to that. One is when people say to me, well, you gotta live a little. And I'm actually saying, yeah, that's exactly my point. I'm trying to actually live better and longer, which is why I'm taking care of myself because we need to turn the bucket upside down, I think. A lot of times we want all of these pleasure foods because we haven't been taking care of ourselves all day long. So we're so drained and we just can't think any further and we just want comfort. So that's one of the reasons why I think we, sometimes have to sort of turn the bucket upside down and be like, well, what comes first? How amazing we feel so that we don't need like the comfort food after. That's one part of it. But the other part of it is too, yes, we are not talking about always eating just perfect healthy food because we do want some of these other things too because our relationship with food is social. It's about connecting with people. And so if we can, you know, since we're talking about how are we respecting both ourselves and other people here, like how can we— Respect all of our relationships that we have with food and looking at, you know, I talk about food memories and triggers, and there's so much about the stories that we have that's connecting us to family and events and friends. And I think we need to respect that we have those stories as well and not, not just have this mindset that it has to be perfect all the time. It's a yes-and kind of relationship, I think.

So let's go back to the first part you said. There's something that's powerful about You referenced what if you could take care of your body, your spirit, your energy in such a way that when you came home, food did not— food was not what you looked for for pleasure or for comfort. Fuel was an energy source, which is what it actually is on the biological system of why we eat is for energy, for fuel. How does this help people understand? Well, that just doesn't seem realistic for some people. They're going, I come home tired. What do you mean come home?

Yeah.

in such a place that I'm energized and I don't turn to food that way.

Right. One of the things I teach, uh, people and companies is to bring self-care with them to work. So when we can take better care of our, our very essential needs, just even water, food, meal breaks, and, and have those things as part of our work style, as I call it, or our, our workday. If we can integrate work and life in that way so that we can bring self-care with us into the workplace, that we don't feel so neglected and tired all day long, and we can actually go home with energy to spare. A lot of times I work with people that realize that, oh, wait a minute, I'm not crashing at 9 o'clock anymore at night or at 8 o'clock. Like, they have time for their kids because they have mental and emotional space left over. They're not worn out because they've taken care of themselves all day long in terms of just the essential fuel that we need— water, food, and of course we need our sleep as well. And the pauses that we integrate into our workday where we just understand that we— our nervous system needs a little bit of downtime to work at its best. And, and if we keep pushing and pushing and pushing, which is often what happens at work, like we push ourselves harder to do more when we, when we forget that the way our bodies really work at its best is to just have this on-off, on-off, on-off in intervals. Like we, we're functioning best in intervals.

So what are specific steps we can take at work to keep that energy consistent throughout the day and into the evening?

One of the things I always see is that people, um, are dehydrated, which is essential for just your focus, feeling tired. And a lot of times people get irritable when they're sort of dehydrated and hangry, right? And, and part of the disrespectful environment that we sometimes work in is just because people are hangry. You know, we can avoid that. But so if we can actually schedule our day in such a way that we're actually taking Either water breaks or at least pee breaks, because what I often hear is that people don't drink enough water because they don't have time to go to the restroom and pee. And it's such a silly, stupid little thing, and yet it has such a huge impact on our performance and our relationships every single day. So just water, scheduling to have these meal breaks. And a lot of teams, if you look at team sport, for example, one of the ways that they create a culture of bonding and care within each other within the team is to just have meals together. So coaches that coach teams to work better together just sit down and have a meal without necessarily talking about work or what we need to do. And when I worked with Esprit back in the '80s, that was one of the things that were essential for the culture was that we actually sat down and shared meals for lunch. And it made us work completely differently together because we had a different relationship to who we were as human beings. And, and it created this inner fuel of, I, I matter, I belong, I am feeling safe. And also the physical part, I'm not working on survival mode where I'm just wearing myself out every day. And again, come back to this idea that we need to actually honor what it is that our, our human needs are, both on a physical, emotional, and social level.

Well, what I love about this, you know, this is a respect podcast. A lot of times people Fail to think about respecting that body, respecting that energy source. You gave us 2 very specific skill sets there, the hydrate, the schedule meal breaks, anything during those, between those that we can do in those office hours. Cuz you mentioned the start and the stop, and we've gotta be able to stop. You briefly mentioned that earlier. We've gotta have those, those pit stops. So what would be some additional ways?

Um, our mind and our, our focus works optimal at 45 to 90 minutes intervals. And our nervous system really needs just 5 to 10 minutes of downtime. So even, even though we think that we need to keep going, going, going, going, it's actually shown that our attention and productivity goes down the longer we work. So we don't actually do more. And so if we can instead look at it and really respect these pauses and breaks as a culture, Where we actually make meetings 45 minutes instead of 60 minutes, which also have been shown to be just as effective and efficient as a 60-minute meeting if you do it 45 minutes, and give ourselves and each other this disconnect from the on all the time where we just can switch off. So our nervous system doesn't get as wired into this exhausted place where, where we're pushing on stress and survival mode. Um, the entire day. So the pauses help us focus better while we're at work, but also helps us not go home so drained.

Now let's reverse it. Let's say the person who comes home and dreads all they have to do when they get home. So now it's not about the work. Now it's about, I get home and I have all these expectations, or could be stress that I'm putting myself, but it's stress.

One of the conversations I had with a woman, um, that was, um, in a leadership position at work, and then she came home and she was shifting into mother gear, right? She was like, I'm a mother, I need to take care of the household and the food. And I asked her, why is putting food on the table just one person's job? And she was like, well, I don't know what exactly do you mean, my husband sort of helps in that way. And I was like, well, what if it becomes a family event? So she was really stressed out over the fact that she felt it was her responsibility And it may still be her responsibility, as in the choices she's making, but it wasn't her responsibility alone to create this family meal. And so now they've actually completely changed the dynamic at mealtime, and everybody is part of creating the meal. They're actually starting family time much earlier in the kitchen because she's not the only one standing there getting ready. Her daughter comes in and helps. And it's the joy of having that mealtime has increased instead of becoming a dread. So that is one way that I see people sort of changing their relationship with what it means to not only take care of ourselves, but also our family.

And you're a big believer in mindfulness.

Yes.

Where does that show in that daily plan, that strategy?

In 2 ways. One is that we, probably more ways than that, but in 2 ways for now, at least here, One way is that we're actually mindful about the fact that we have these human needs and just asking ourselves, ask a better question of ourselves that says, is that we tend to be like, why am I not doing these? Why can I not this? Why can I not that? And so if we can shift that and be a little bit more mindful about how our self-talk affects us, we can shift then that question and be, what do I need so that I can? X, Y, and Z. So instead of beating ourselves up, we are now coaching ourselves and supporting ourselves in figuring out how to solve or how to give ourselves what we need. So mindfulness can be a very active and engaged way to just shift our mindset, shift our way of asking questions, also of each other. You know, as a leader, we tend to— or some leaders tend to get upset and wonder why something is not happening instead of Having the focus on how can we get this to work? Like, what do we need as a team? Or what do you need as a human being there? What do you need so that you can solve this problem? So that's one way that mindfulness can work in a very active and engaged way, because it really just helps us focus on what it is we want rather than what's not working. And the other way—

Well, I wanna, I wanna pause on that one before we jump to the next one. I think that's also great for if you're in relationships. To be able to ask the question, what do you need right now for this to take place? So, if somebody is— your partner is stressing, they're emotional.

Yes, emotional.

It could be your children are stressing. What do you need right now? They're like, I don't know what I need. Well, why don't you just take some time to evaluate that? Why don't you just, you know, take the time to figure out what you need for that to happen? It allows us to focus on the possibility versus the frustration, which is exactly what you were referencing. I, I love it. I just want to pause for people to think, hey, I can do this for those around me too.

And I think we can do it everywhere. Like, and it's funny because one of the things I notice is a lot of times somebody will use that skill to focus on finding the solution in their job, but when it comes to their relationship with themselves, they don't.

Right.

And oftentimes I say to people, like, use the skills that you use at work to To, to do what you do so well. Use that in all the relationships that you have, especially the relationship with yourself.

And so that was the first step. It was the, what do I need to? And the second one? Yep.

And the second one is that we do, as you also mentioned, pause and just pay attention. Just notice what goes on around us. We are so often caught in the story of what we have seen before or what we assume or what we believe. So we are caught in the stories and the the narrative of what's going on around us rather than actually pausing for a moment and just look and ask, is this really what's happening or is there something else going on here that I can pay attention to? Can I listen more? Can I see it for the first time? It's in meditation or in mindfulness practice, you will call it beginner's mind. And I think oftentimes we lose out on innovation and creativity because we're just so like, gotta get it done, gotta get it done, gotta get it done. We are sort of working on what we know already rather than pausing for a moment and look and sit with that discomfort of not knowing and really look at what is maybe a new way to look at this. Maybe the way we're doing it is the best way to do it, but at least let's pause for a moment and just look and listen and ask, is this what we really want to do to achieve what it is that we want to achieve? that we're looking for. I think the mindfulness about looking and being curious is an important piece that we miss out on a lot of times in our busy daily lives.

You talk about health being the new currency that can transform company culture and the way we work. What do you mean by that and what is that?

I think it's important that we start realizing that we're bringing work home with us. So we need to bring our humanity with us to work as well because work-life is an integration at this point. I know we're all trying to find balance, but let's face it, we're spending most of our lives at work. And so if we can take care of ourselves and be healthy at work, if the culture in the company is one of taking care of both each other and ourselves, if the company says it's important to me that you are healthy, not just because it's going to cost more money to the company if you're not, but because the relationship relationships and the care that we have for ourselves and each other feed the culture in such a way that our relationships and the way we work together is a much more healthy relationship. We communicate better. We— when we work on survival mode, we tend to snap at each other or not pay attention and notice each other as human beings. So I think all of those aspects of us feeling safe feeling we belong, feel that we are being heard and seen and acknowledged, which are so important for us as human beings and what essentially is what we're looking for at work. We don't go to work just to make money these days. We go to work because it matches something that is important to us and that matters for us. And can we bring health into the culture and make that the foundation? for how we take care of people, then we also open up to a whole different possibility and opportunity for people to really thrive and grow and do their best work. Because stress is such a— has such an impact on everything.

It would be curious how many companies have self-care in their core values.

I don't think many do right now.

I don't think so either. It's— and it says everything, right? So we're gonna We're gonna talk about— someone may have the word respect, very few even have that necessarily in there.

Right.

And they'll put family and team environment, but not self-care. So they don't really mean family, 'cause you can't really be healthy for your family and your team if you're not taking care of you either. So I think that's a really brilliant point that you bring up there that we need to always be thinking about. Now, you also discuss the idea that we brought up briefly earlier about that Food is fuel, but you also say that fueling performance and culture is from the inside out, inner fuel. Now that's a different kind of fuel. So what do you mean by that fuel?

It is our relationship with ourselves. If we are confident, if we are, um, if we are feeling that we are, as I said before, also feeling safe, that we are, that we're being seen and heard, we are focused on our purpose, that we're focusing on the fact that we matter. And when we do that, we're engaging in a completely different way. People become disengaged because they're not— because they don't feel they matter. They don't feel that they are added to the equation. So why bother, right? Where if we are seeing that we are contributing, that we are connecting with other people, that we're part of the community, we are driven by something that's within in us, which is a bigger— sometimes bigger than ourselves. Sometimes it's because we want to feel seen and heard in and of itself, but also sometimes it is because we have a bigger reason to do things. Like for me, it is that idea that I would like to see everybody walk around this earth being healthy and having a healthy relationship with their own bodies so that they can have a healthy relationship with everyone else around them. There's a bigger purpose. There's a global or at least eco-sustainable relationship that is coming from inside out as well. We also have to remember that food is actually also from the inside out. Even though we think of food as just energy, food actually is something that we can use as a tool to navigate the finer qualities of our energy. We can feel more grounded with certain foods. We can feel more energized with certain foods. We indirectly do We do that ourselves already. We drink caffeine to get more energy or we drink sugar to either get more energy or to relax and numb out. We use it in both ways. So fuel, in the nuances of it, food really becomes this way that we are in charge of how our emotional and physical energy manifests. So there are many different versions of the inner fuel. So what I look at is the physical. The emotional, the social, and how we contribute to our purpose as part of the inner fuel. And then I look at the environment that we are working in and the relationships that we have as part of what fuels us from the inside out too, even though it looks as if it comes from the outside.

With food especially as the fuel, one thing that a lot of people struggle with, and I certainly have struggled with it myself, is those sugar cravings. How do you help somebody break free from a mindset of understanding and the literally physiological of what's happening there? To give themselves the freedom to let go of that need, to walk away or not consume it or not look for it, not search for it in the house? Hmm.

It's such a great question because I think so many people have different relationships with it that it does become one of those sort of complex answers, but I'm going to try to make it as simple as possible. Sugar has been part of your environment since you were born. Mother's milk is very sweet. So sugar is something that we innately look for. We have realized through evolution that sweetness is nourishing. It feels good and it has— it gives us this idea of feeling taken care of. And also we are drawn to sweetness from a perspective of needing energy because carbohydrates and foods like Like the carbs are giving us a certain type of energy that we're also looking for. And a lot of times when people are dehydrated, they actually show up as sugar cravings, interestingly enough. And innately, we also know that when we're tired, sugar is energy for us. So there's a lot of things that we just automatically go for in terms of sugar when we need energy, when we're, when we're physically exhausted, but also in the emotional. We know that it's something that makes us feel nourishing. Nourished. We know that it's this sense of surrender and relax. And then there's the stories and the memories around it, because most of us have at some point in time had a really great memory around something we shared that was sweet, whether it's the ice cream when we were walking who knows where and shared ice cream with friends or family, or around the table for the holidays and there were dessert. Like, we all have memories of sugar that are helping us feel human, even like loved. And those will kick in the minute we're tired, the minute we're looking for comfort, the minute we're not feeling, feeling seen or heard. Well, the sugar reminds us of those moments where we were. And I think we're, we're not completely understanding how much the memories are triggering on us.

Right. And letting go of that, right? To say, you know, it wasn't the sugar that brought me the memory. It was the time I had with my dad or my mom or my friends. And so instead of letting that go and going, oh, I never needed sugar in my life to have happiness. I had the— it was the people I was with at that time and reprogramming our minds to understand that. Is that true?

Exactly. I give— I normally give a fruit tart story. Like, I was always like, oh my God, there's a fruit tart. I must have it. I love it. And I would sit down and I would eat and it was just not doing it for me. And I was like trying again, trying again, trying again. I could never really get to that feeling that I wanted to have when eating it because we are felt sense beings. We are driven by how we feel in our choices, even though we think that we want to make it all, you know, so we're smart people. We are felt sense people. And so what I realized what was missing in that moment for the fruit tart to have what it was I wanted it to give me was the fact that I always shared it with my mom. And once I realized that, every time I saw the fruit tart, I no longer wanted the fruit tart. Now it's just a kind reminder of my mom. And we can shift it that way. We can shift the relationship we have with it in that moment and really be like, oh, that's right. Now I can remember her or the times we shared. And then it just becomes a fond memory. It's not a craving for the fruit tart anymore.

Yeah. You can say to yourself, hey, thanks, mom. Thanks for the— you're just— that's your moment of saying hi to me today. Right? Exactly. Right. That's so powerful. And you're, you're a big reader. Uh, you, the books that you recommend are Smile at Fear, Turning the Mind into an Ally, Focusing, uh, The Mind of the Leader. Why these books? And they're all going to be in our show notes for our listeners. You can find these all in our show notes at respectpodcast.com.

I'll make it short. My mother was bipolar. And so as a child, I was always trying to figure out her mindset. And so for me, one of the things that I find so interesting is how we are— how we can be in right relationship with our mind and how that can completely change our life and our world and our— and the way we see things when we really can be in right relationship with our mind, which is also where mindfulness comes in. It's a way that we can learn how to practice something differently. And so our fear, for example, is something that tends to drive us. And I don't believe that we can overcome fear, but we can come into right relationship with fear.

That's very powerful. I wanna thank you so much for joining us on this episode, Jeannette.

Thank you for having me here. I love it.

Absolutely. And for all our listeners, coming up next is our question of the week. Before I answer this week's question of the week, I'd love to ask you a question. Would you please subscribe to this podcast, The Respect Podcast with Mike Domitrz? By subscribing, you can make a huge impact. Now, you might be wondering, Mike, how does my subscribing to your podcast make a huge impact? Well, here's how. For every person that subscribes, it raises the rankings of the show in the search engines. So, for people who care about respect like yourself, when they're doing a search for podcasts, They're more likely to find this show, thus providing an awesome opportunity for us to spread more respect around this world. And all you do is hit subscribe under your podcast. Plus, the second benefit is by subscribing, you automatically get every episode right into your phone or whatever device you are listening to the podcast on. It happens automatically. So subscribing also makes your life easier. Now let's get into this week's question of the week. Oh, and By the way, you can always ask your questions of the week by joining us on Facebook in our discussion group. It's called the Respect Podcast Discussion Group. Go there on Facebook and ask whatever questions you would like me to answer and/or address in this segment of the show. And then listen to each episode to find out when your question is included. This week's question of the week is, Mike, what is your favorite summertime, like, exercise that you engage in when it's warm out, it's nice out, And for me, that is biking. I love getting on my bike and riding around here. We have a lot of lakes in the area that I live in, and I love the hilliness, and I just love being out in the rural area, also out in the countryside. And you can do all of that. And I love to go for a 15 or 25-mile ride where you're just out there and enjoying that and taking it all in, and the exercise and the spirit of it all. So for me, it's cycling, road cycling, and no, not like speed or competition, but just going out and really enjoying a great ride. We'd love to hear your questions, your thoughts, and your ideas, and the best place to leave those with us is on our Facebook page at facebook.com/MutuallyAmazingPodcast. Of course, you can always contact us on our website at mutuallyamazingpodcast.com. Remember to subscribe to this show so you automatically get it every week, and if you could take Take one moment to leave a review. That really helps other people find the show, which we are greatly appreciative of. So thank you so much for joining us. May you make today and every day a life full of mutually amazing relationships.