54: Cynthia Zhai on Learning to Respect Your Voice

Welcome to The Respect Podcast. I'm your host, Mike Domitrz, from mikespeaks.com, where we help organizations of all sizes, educational institutions, and the U.S. military create a culture of respect. And respect is exactly what we discuss on this show. So, let's get started. And welcome to this week. This week, we have a really unique discussion and one that for individuals like myself, Is so, so important. And that's our voice. And how do we treat our voice? And do we abuse it? Do we beat it up? Or are we respecting it and really valuing it? And, and sometimes people think that and go, well, I don't need that. I'm— I work in a job that I need my voice, but you're going to want your voice your whole life for so many different reasons. And so today we brought you a very unique discussion. And that is our guest is Cynthia, and Cynthia is a voice coach and she helps you develop a powerful voice. To be heard, respected, and recognized. Cynthia Jai. And is that the correct pronunciation of your last name, Cynthia?

It's Jai.

Jai. That's why I asked. I didn't think I was right. So, uh, so thank you for helping me clarify that. Cynthia, thank you for joining us.

Yes, I'm excited to be on the show.

Oh, well, we're excited to have you here. And, and this, for people like me who are speakers, our voice is everything, uh, with our, obviously our brain and our health and The whole mindset. But it's a big, big piece of it. And you also talk about here about owning your voice, which is more than just the vocals. So, let's get right into it. What challenges do people have when they come to you?

Yeah. So, the challenges they have, like for example, when they're in meetings, when they are in presentations, they feel their voice does not project the power. Their voice is either too soft Too high-pitched, or they just don't have the gravitas in their voice. And because of that, they were not heard in meetings and their opinions were not taken seriously.

So a lot of this falls into a bit of sexism, right? That either sexism or assumptions of even what manly or powerful voice should be. And so our culture doesn't hear all voices the same. Biases and prejudice on voice even.

Yeah. Yes, definitely. People would think that, oh, for women, the voice is too soft, too high-pitched. There is an assumption that men should have a voice that has gravitas.

And then if they don't, they don't get heard the same. They aren't valued the same?

Yeah, that's right. And that also affects their own self-confidence.

Right. Because if you think you're not being heard, obviously that changes how you feel valued or not valued. Is it possible that some people also don't realize they're not being heard and it's about their voice? Like they think, oh, they don't like my ideas or I'm being ignored, but it's actually potentially their voice.

There are more and more people start to realize that it is the voice because most people now are exposed to so much different training. And they realize that they have done many other training programs, like how to have more confidence, how to speak up. But at the end of the day, they realize even with all this training they have done, they were still not heard. And then they started to realize, oh, it is my voice. Some of my clients, they did get the feedback from other people or their colleagues saying that, oh, you're too soft, we couldn't hear you, can you repeat? So once they were asked to repeat over and over again, then they realized, oh, there must be something wrong with my voice.

And does this happen within all different mediums? In other words, do people struggle with this as a parent? Do they struggle with it as a partner? Or is this more of a corporate job situation?

It is because once we have a problem, this problem will permeate in every area of our lives. So some of my clients, they're not heard in, in the corporate setting, and they realize that their partner were also not really hearing them. And some of my clients, once they started to develop their voice and they have a powerful voice, they started to realize, oh, now even my partner started to listen to me.

Right. So, so one, it can help you be valued at work, which can lead to promotions, more opportunities, and at home you get more heard. Do children hear differently? In other words, does somebody's voice change how children listen?

Yes. So if as a parent that we're speaking with a high-pitched voice, we say, oh, get this done! And then if we say that over and over again, children, they just disregard it. But if you're saying that, get this done, with a more powerful voice, it sounds more serious. And so most of the times that the children, they started to pay attention. And they know something is serious.

Yeah. So it's across all ages. And is it something that, and I don't know if you know this or not, is this a DNA thing? Is this in our nature or is this something that we've created culturally? In other words, if we took an infant and they weren't exposed to a culture where the male voice was considered more dominant, would they, would they be impacted the same? Is this, is this, you know, nature versus nurture as far as, is this the way we've raised people to only hear this? certain kinds of voices respectfully and with authority? Or has it been shown that no, that's— that in the animal kingdom, it's true too, that it's more of a DNA thing?

Yeah, yeah, I would say it's more of a DNA thing, because voice is vibration. So vibration sends out this vibrational frequency. Everything is vibration. And our body resonates with a better frequency, which is usually that the voice is Okay.

And so the deeper range vibrates stronger, therefore it's heard more naturally?

Heard more naturally. And also we think that that is related with authority, with trustworthiness.

And so because of that, I have some friends that have higher-pitched voices and they, they're open about this. They talk about this and they're professional speakers. I could see somebody say, well, wait, am I going to change who I— that would be inauthentic to have a different voice than who I am off the stage. How would you answer that?

When we develop the voice, we are developing an even more authentic self. And when we are developing the voice, we're not changing who you are. We are actually helping you become the better version of yourself because there is much potential in the voice that is not tapped. So when you tap into that potential, it's just like we tap into any other areas of potential we have. We develop ourselves. We become a better version.

I love that, the idea of being a better selves. So how do you do it? What's a technique to help somebody speak up or improve the— literally their voice, the sound?

When I work with my clients, we usually— because in order to work on the voice and tap into the potential, we need to understand first that voice is very physical. When we talk about just now, voice is vibration. This vibration is physical that we can feel. And for most people, this vibration is not optimized. So we need to work on the body to make it optimized. For example, one of the areas that we are not really using the potential is the breath. So most people, for their entire life, that they are only using 1/3 of their lung capacity. So the other 2/3 is where we are developing.

So, where are those 2/3?

So, it's the wrong way of breathing. So, for example, if I ask our listeners to take a deep breath, now we assume that they're taking a deep breath. And, when they're taking the deep breath, so I would like to have them observe just now when they were taking the deep breath, which part of the body is moving. So, most people when they're doing a deep breathing, they'll be doing The shoulder would go up and then the chest will also go up. The stomach goes in. And that means that there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that they're not doing it correctly. The good news is they have potential. When we are doing the proper breathing, we breathe in, shoulder and chest, they should not move. And it's the stomach, the stomach comes out. When we breathe in. And when we breathe out, the stomach goes in. So, if they are breathing in this way properly, then that means that they have used the other 2/3 of the lung capacity.

And I come from a theater background, so we had to learn that right away that you bring your voice from your abdomen and it also avoids the vocal strain.

That's right.

Right on the throat and the vocal cords. Because you're not just pushing from the chest, you're naturally bringing the power from the abdomen, which is a muscle.

Yeah. Yes.

So you're— so you help them with this. So everybody listening can think about this from throughout the rest of the day. Am I talking and using the air from my abdomen versus my chest? So that's where it's coming from. So now what to change the tone of the voice? What needs to happen?

One of the biggest mistakes that people make, and my clients made, was that they were trying to adopt a certain tone, which is against authenticity. So instead, to change the tone, there are 2 ways. If we're talking about the tone as pitch, high pitch, low pitch. So to change that—

Can we pause one second there, Cynthia? Because I think you said something really brilliant there. They have an imaginary concept in their mind of what it should sound like, So it's the old fake it till you make it, right? I mean, from what you're saying, I can picture it. I think I need to be deeper, so I'm going to go deep, which is not natural at all. Is that what you're referring to? The person who plays that game?

Uh, that's right.

Okay. So, Kea, I didn't want to interrupt, but I want to help everybody picture what we're talking about there. Excellent.

So one of my clients, um, he, when he first came to me, he said, uh, in the past, when I want to sound more convincing, I purposely lower my voice so I sound more convincing. So I said, how long did you last? He said, 10 to 15 minutes.

That's even super long with a fake voice.

Yes. So I said, wow, that's very long. But that's the wrong way of working on your voice. And the proper way is one we've talked about, is the breathing. So once you can breathe properly and also make the proper breathing a habit, and then we are going to help you develop The tone, the pitch. And that is done by developing the resonance, which means more vibration, more vibration in the body. So when you can develop more vibration in the body, the pitch, the tone will be changed by itself.

So is this similar to like singing lessons or— I've had vocal work done, vocal therapy, 'cause I had a nodule on my vocal cord. And so for that, I've had to do this where you go in And you do the different pitches like singing of, you know, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, and you see where you're naturally at. Is that sort of what we're referring to here?

Okay. So, it is a little bit similar, but there is a difference as well. So, for the voice, when we are developing the vibration, the resonance, we are mainly using one tone, one sound that we practice. And then, the sound usually depends on the individual. Some of my clients will be practicing the M sound. Some will be practicing the O sound. And, the purpose— so, we don't go over the scale to find the pitch. Instead, we are using the body vibration as a reference. So, when they can find the body vibration, they find their own best pitch.

So, are you referring to the vibration you might feel nasally when you hit the right tone or where would they feel the vibration?

The vibration would be in the body.

So if you don't mind, just for our listeners to get an idea, can you do this on me? In other words, say, Mike—

Sure.

Mike would make this sound. Tell me when you feel this, just so we give people a vibe for what we're talking about.

Okay, sure. So for example, let's do an experiment first. I would like to have you put your 2 fingers on your nose. So place your 2 fingers on the nose.

Are they pinching the nose?

Don't pinch the nose. Just place them there. And then we take a breath in. When we breathe out, we say, hmm.

Hmm.

Do you feel the vibration in your nose?

I do.

Yes. So that's—

I hope all the listeners are doing this at the same time. So I'm not the only— I can see a bunch of you picturing me doing this, but I hope if you're a listener, you're doing that yourself. Put just— I had my 2 fingers over the top of my nose is what I did there without pinching.

Yes.

And, I could feel the vibration in the nose.

So, that's one area of the vibration, the resonance, which is in the nose. So now, we want to have the same feeling in the body. What you're going to do is you're going to put your hand on your mid-sternum.

Okay. So, right between the chest, that little indentation.

Yes.

Okay.

That's right. So, once you put it here and then you're going to take a breath in, proper breath in, When you breathe out, you can try the mmm sound again. So we breathe in, we breathe out, we do mmm.

And I— now, if I don't feel— now, one, should you be having it like under your shirt so you're feeling direct to the skin, or would you feel through your clothes?

Through your clothes.

You do feel through your clothes. Okay. So how many times can it take before you've— so you— would you feel it only when it's at the natural spot? Like you're only going to feel it go through At a certain spot, or are you feeling it the whole time?

When you are developing your voice, once you are able to make this a habit, you should be able to feel that at all times. In the beginning, they may only feel that when they are doing the exercises.

Okay. So how many times can it take of doing the mm before you feel it in your sternum?

So usually when we practice the mm sound, at the end of about 4 months because the first 4 months, we need to develop the habit of proper breathing. We need to develop the habit of proper projection. Then, when their body is ready after breathing and projection, they will be able to practice the resonance. So, that would take about 2 months. So, the entire process for my clients to change their voice is about 6 months.

Wow. So, if somebody's listening, they shouldn't feel bad if they didn't feel that vibration just now because It can take time.

Yeah. And also, even if they feel the vibration, that may not be optimum because their breathing is not proper, their projection is not proper.

Right. They could be getting an unhealthy vibration in theory, right? Right.

Yes. Yes.

And so you're talking a 6-month process. Now, once somebody's through that 6 months, is, is it an ongoing training, a practice that you do every day, or is it with you for life and you never have to work on it again? Now, I think I know the answer. There's no way it's with you for life. Because the voice is an instrument, you have to, you have to make that instrument, fine-tune it constantly.

Ah, okay. Actually, there's good news.

Oh, good. Okay.

Yeah. So, the good news is because every step we are doing is to make it a habit. Once it becomes a habit, you will not lose it. So, for my clients, usually for 6 months, they can change that and then that will be with them for the rest of their lives. Wow.

So, they don't need to practice it again after those 6 months?

No. So unless some of my clients, they are not sure, they said, oh, I want to practice a bit longer, they can, and it's not necessary.

Wow, very intriguing. Because I think you always hear in the vocal world that, you know, your voice is— your vocal cords are an instrument and you have to take care of them. But that's a separate discussion from what you're saying. You're not saying that's not true. You're saying that finding your voice is different than Taking care of your vocal cords. There's 2 very different discussions there.

Yes. And on another hand, when we are practicing developing the voice, developing the powerful voice, working on the body through breathing, projection, and resonance, we are reducing the strain on the vocal cords. So once you develop that voice, your vocal cords will be less strained. And when you talk for longer hours, you will not feel vocal— you will not feel hoarseness. You will not feel Uh, tired on your vocal cords. So that is actually helping you to, uh, take care of the vocal cords as well.

So are you doing this work in person? Is it virtual over the phone or Zoom meetings? How does that work?

Uh, so I do that, uh, with, uh, my clients through both face-to-face and on Zoom. So I have clients all over the world.

But it is essential to be able to see, right? Because I noticed there's both— those are either video or live is what you're saying. So you need to be able to see what they're doing.

Yes, that's right.

And so what are the biggest transformations you see from people by, by simply discovering their voice in a way that, you know, hits the tones that people hear better?

Yeah, so one is the confidence. And the confidence is not just being increased, but also it is soaring. I have seen my clients when they are developing their own best voice, And the moment they're practicing, they said, "Hmm, I feel good. I don't know why." So I tell them that it's because the vibration is being optimized. That's why they feel good. So that's one of the benefits that I saw transformations is that they feel very confident. They feel good about themselves. And then the other one is there was a client. She was based in Silicon Valley, and then she was. so confident that she started to apply a higher position in her company. And after 3 rounds of interviews, she got that position, which was the same position as her boss.

Well, that's wonderful. Well, and I, you know, a lot of people when they say they're afraid to speak publicly, what they're really referring to is just a lack of confidence in either their own voice or the topic. 'Cause I tell people all the time, look, if you're an expert on something, it's easy to sit down next to your friend and tell them all about it. And speaking's doing the same thing. So either you lack the confidence of your expertise or you lack the confidence of your ability to speak. You think you're not going to be heard. And this is hitting on all those points. I mean, not the expertise, but it hits on the concept of gaining confidence in myself and in my voice and being heard. Yeah.

Yes.

What are some of the stories you've seen? So those were 2 examples of the Silicon Valley and the other example. What you've also worked with people at corporate levels at all, all different facets, like, uh, from what I saw in your bio and all, you've worked with shows, uh, it's called USA Discover Your Talent Show. So tell us a little bit about that.

So that was, uh, to, to help people. Uh, that show is about helping people discover their talent, all kinds of talent. And one of them, of course, is the voice. So once you have the voice being developed, that's where you will find that some of my clients, that they always wanted to learn singing, but they were afraid and they didn't know how. And even when they studied with singing teacher, they were not able to fully discover their talent. And one client, so he was pausing his singing lessons and developing his speaking voice with me. And as he was developing, he started to like his own voice and love his own voice. And then he went back to the singing teacher. The singing teacher said, what happened to you? He said, that's my secret. And his voice was so good, and the singing teacher said, I think now you can sing solo.

That's awesome. And it was all gaining— really, it's just being able to understand his most effective way to use his voice.

Yes. Yes.

That's powerful. So, how did you get to this journey? You know, about our— in our show, we talk about work, love, and life. And clearly, what we're talking about here can impact work, love, and life. Gaining your voice can— gaining that confidence is huge. But how did it personally— how did your life go down this path? How did this become your love and your work?

For me, that in my early years, when I was a child, I started singing. And so that's my kind of the first interaction with the voice. And that's where I've learned about breathing and how to use the voice. But I never thought about using this as my career until that when I was in the business world and when I joined the workforce. So even though I had the training on voice, but I was not heard. And so it took me quite a few years to realize that I need to work on my speaking voice. So I learned with different teachers, and that's where I developed my own voice potential, my own best voice. After that, once I started to think about, I want to do something on my own, and I thought about, okay, this is my passion. This is what I have seen my own transformation, and this is what I want to help more people to experience. So that's my journey.

And so how did you— but how do you get from wanting to do that to Becoming the person people are turning to. What was that path?

It is— one is that to develop my own kind of a system, to know that this is something that has helped me. And in the beginning, it is an experiment. So when I was using the processes that I developed with all these training programs that I have attended and what I have done on my own voice, And in the beginning, for the first 1 to 1.5 years, I was experimenting with different clients to see whether it works and how well will it work. So over the process, about 1.5 to 2 years, then I realized, oh, okay, this is something that is working, and they are something that I am making twists. So that's where I started to know, oh, okay, it works. And as it worked on these clients, so they started to tell other people. Okay. And that also gives me more confidence in running this.

Yeah, I told you, hey, they're telling everybody about it. That means I've got something. That's always wonderful when you have referral occurring. That's fantastic. What's the best way for people to reach out to you if they want to work with you or they want to learn more?

They can— the best way is that they can find me on YouTube. So I have a YouTube video, a YouTube channel where I have Almost 20,000 subscribers. And there are also about over 130 videos that they can learn from. So that's the best way.

That's a lot of subscribers. So that tells you you've got something people really appreciate and value. So that's awesome. Cynthia, I want to thank you so much for joining us today. This has been fascinating learning simple little things everybody listening can learn from and use themselves.

Yes. Thank you.

And for our listeners, you know what's coming next. That is question of the week. Before I answer this week's question of the week, I'd love to ask you a question. Would you please subscribe to this podcast, The Respect Podcast with Mike Domitrz? By subscribing, you can make a huge impact. Now, you might be wondering, Mike, how does my subscribing to your podcast make a huge impact? Well, here's how. For every person that subscribes, it raises the rankings of the show in the search engines. So, for people who care about respect like yourself, when they're doing a search for podcasts, They're more likely to find this show, thus providing an awesome opportunity for us to spread more respect around this world. And all you do is hit subscribe under your podcast. Plus, the second benefit is by subscribing, you automatically get every episode right into your phone or whatever device you are listening to the podcast on. It happens automatically. So subscribing also makes your life easier. Now let's get into this week's question of the week. Oh, and By the way, you can always ask your questions of the week by joining us on Facebook in our discussion group. It's called the Respect Podcast Discussion Group. Go there on Facebook and ask whatever questions you would like me to answer and/or address in this segment of the show, and then listen to each episode to find out when your question is included. Today's question is, Mike, what is a view that you absolutely love? Like, what's a visual view you Well, for me, it's an easy answer. It is sunsets. When it comes to nature, sunsets are something that I look forward to every day. I purposely have my office positioned in a way that I can see a sunset if I'm in my office at that time. I love to just stop my day and watch the sunset. For me, it is tranquil. And what's just interesting is that friends of mine are like, that's so interesting. Because you're a sunrise person. Your energy is one of sunrise, hyper high energy and aligned with spirituality. That's sunrise. I'm surprised you love sunset, but that's just it. Sunset brings complete closure to that sunrise energy for the day. Allows us to say, now is my time to just relax and shut down and to really think and be quiet. And that's what I love about sunsets. What I really love is when the sunset goes down and you have a little cloud layer. The afterglow colors can be amazing. Purples and oranges and reds with the yellows and the oranges and the blues can really come out and just be astoundingly beautiful. And sometimes when you have clouds, it creates a darkness against light. You have this contrast that is absolutely beautiful, gorgeous. And it's all from the gift of nature. That's why I love sunsets. Do you know what I would love? I would love to hear your answer to this week's question of the week. So would you please answer what your answer would have been if you were asked that question today on the show? All you do is go to our Facebook page. We have a special group where we have these discussions called the Respect Podcast Discussion Group. So the Respect Podcast Discussion Group. And share with us, what would your answer have been to this week's Question of the Week? And if— take a moment, post us a new question for future episodes. What question would you like to hear me answer on an upcoming episode? That's all done at— on Facebook in our special group, which is the Respect Podcast Discussion Group. Can't wait to see you there. Thank you for joining us in this episode of the Respect Podcast, exploring work Love and life. And this episode, like every episode, is brought to you by our organization, the Center for Respect, which you can find at centerforrespect.com. And of course, you can find me, your host, Mike Domitrz, at mikespeaks.com. Thank you so much for joining us.