68: Are you managing your time or your energy? Which gets the priority and why? Discover this...

Welcome to the Mutually Amazing Podcast. I'm your host, Mike Domitrz, with the Center for Respect. The episode you're about to listen to was recorded when this show used to be called the Respect Podcast. So, you might hear that mentioned during this episode. Well, let's get to the show. This week, we have Robin Peirce, known around the world as the Time Queen. Used to be terrible with her time management. However, once she sorted out her bad habits, people started knocking on her door. And for the last 20 years, she has worked with clients around the world helping them win their time battles. Thank you, Robin, for joining us.

My pleasure, Mike. It's wonderful to be on your show.

Well, I'm glad to have you here. So, we're going to dive right in. How does time management and respect— what are their roles? How do they work together?

Time is something that we all need to respect. And The people that struggle with their time management are often accused of not respecting the time of the people around them. Now, there is another story to that, which perhaps we might dive into at some point, but it is really important to be able to respect other people's time. And that's like a fairly obvious statement, but yet it's surprising how many people struggle with it.

Well, is it that a lot of people don't realize that what they're doing is disrespecting people's time, but they don't see it that way? They're like, hey, if I'm late— like, you shared once a story, I believe, about you being late and so how that impacted. So I'll let you go with that. You, you have a story about that.

I do. I do have a story about that. In fact, it wasn't the trigger that got me into time— studying time management, but it certainly had a huge impact at the time. It was before before I had even dreamed that I might end up working around the world helping people with their time, I was working for a company that— a sales company. The boss came around at about 1 o'clock one afternoon and he said, sales meeting in my office at 3. Now, in those days, my time skills were pretty poor and I had a particular habit, which was, I'll just see if I can fit in one more thing. I thought I was being efficient, but what I wasn't doing was being respectful. So here we are, I'm sitting at my desk about 10 to 3, and I've noticed— it might have been 5 to 3, something like that— and I noticed my colleagues walking into my boss's office. And unusually, I actually heard the door shut. Usually it was left open until everybody got into the meeting. As I was approaching the time for this meeting, I'd thought to myself, I could just get in one more phone call. So I put my headphones on and I dialed another prospect and was in the middle of this call while my colleagues were walking into the boss's office. I finished the call at about 5 past 3. I thought, right, well, I better go to the toilet. I'd better get a cup of coffee. Typically, the meetings would be half to 3 quarters of an hour. And so at about 10 past 3, juggling coffee, diary, and something to write with. I walked in, opened the boss's door and walked in to be greeted by a very angry face. And he glared at me. He said, in fact, he pointed at me and he shouted, he said, get out of my office. Nobody comes to my meetings late. Oh, he was so angry. I slunk out of there, like, wishing the floor would open up. And I was so embarrassed. A little while later, after the meeting was finished, my colleagues all walked past with smirks on their faces. And the next day, the boss came to me. He said, Robin, we're going for a walk. I thought, oh dear, I'm really in deep stuff here. We went around the block and he said, look, I'm sorry I had to embarrass you yesterday, but that was done to me years ago when I worked for a big firm that I was with. And it fixed me from being late for my meetings. And I just thought it was time you were made an example of. I was never late again, Mike.

Well, and that's just it. Some people say, yeah, but the call I was on was so important. And that means that our call in that case, we believe is more important than all those people in that room that agreed on a time or that was agreed upon time, you know, by a boss saying whatever, not showing up. And that's where I think a lot of people struggle. Like, look, when we don't show up on time and we go, well, it's because I had this or I had that, or I had this going on. What we are saying to the person who was on time is that my stuff's, my being late. that's more of a priority than you because you sat there waiting for me and that was worth it because I need to do these things over here, right? That's essentially what can be felt.

It is exactly that. Now, there is an interesting point about this which I didn't discover until many years later when I was studying neuro-linguistic programming or NLP as many people will know it. And in fact, there are 2 different personality profiles, if you like, when it comes to, and that's my terminology, somebody might, it might be called something differently, In some other way of thinking about it. But there are 2 different distinct personalities in terms of time. And one is what I would call— what is known as in-time people, and the other is through-time people. So what is behind this is that the people who are consistently late actually don't mean to be disrespectful. What they're really terrified of is wasting time, ironically. So a through-time person is able to detach themselves from time, and it's as if they can see the passing of time and how much time they need in order to reach certain deadlines, get out the door at certain times. Whereas an in-time person, they're not called in-time because they're in the— on time, they're called it that because they are in the moment to such a degree that they don't actually notice the passing of time. And so they'll be working away on something, Come up for air and then go, oh my Lord, is that the time? They'd glance at it somewhere and then there's this mad scurry because they are supreme optimists in how much they're going to get fitted in. And they are unaware, it's as if they are— the time is going through them rather than in that detached way. So there are some quick little things that— well, quick to explain, but not so quick to learn. And the reason that I can talk about this is because I am by nature one of those in-time people and was this consistently late person. So one of the techniques is to get somewhere first. So in other words, don't stop and do the other things. Go early, get somewhere early, and then do the extra things, which these days is so much easier because we've got so much work on our— the little things we carry in our pockets or our purses. Another one, a really big one, is don't do the one last thing. That's the solution. What people will say is, I'll just do this one more thing, or I just— I've just got time for— One more thing. Blah, blah, blah, whatever it might be. As soon as you hear yourself thinking, I can just fit in one more job, or I can fit in that extra phone call, or I'll just hang up the washing, if you're a domestic goddess, don't do those things because they are the guarantees, the guaranteed items that were going to make you late. So don't do the last thing. Just get out the door at the time that you realize, that you start to think, I should go. What the end-time people are doing is they are fluffing around. Well, they're not fluffing around. They think they're being efficient, but they're actually just trying to squeeze in too much.

Yeah, and I think we've all fallen into that. And that's the old example you see in life all the time, right? It's 5 o'clock, but I've got one more thing, and you end up missing the kid's event or the start of something back home because you try to do that one last thing back at the office.

That's exactly right. And so it would be seen in that case that there's no respect shown to the child's event. If you're the parent that just hasn't showed up, for example. And that person's often quite hurt because they think, I really, really want to be at that event, but, um, I just had to do that one last important— inverted commas— thing.

And you're all about time management, so what we're discussing right now, obviously. So how do you define it? Like, when people say time management, what does that mean for you?

I've modified that over the 27 years I've been working in this field, Mike, and I now say it's not really time management that we're talking about, but Energy management. And if we manage our energy, and as well as there's a whole raft of things behind that, but if we can manage our energy, we will have the capacity to do the things that need to be done. We'll be able to think more clearly, to act more efficiently, and able to watch out for the small efficiencies that will go to the greater good.

So how does somebody identify Energy management. What are steps they can take?

I think we all know that intuitively. Whenever I say this in a room as I'm giving speeches or running training programs wherever I happen to be around the world and I make that statement, the room goes quiet and people stop and you can see them going inwards and thinking, energy, yes. When I've got high energy, which goes hand in hand with good health and having got enough sleep and those kind of things, Then I function better. So it's, it's not just about what we call time. It's the way we manage ourselves in relation to that time.

Well, that's brilliant. 'Cause I think so many people miss out on that whole concept of where's my energy right now in this moment. And the, I think the part people miss is the why. Like they'll say, oh, I'm tired because I'm doing so much, but they don't stop and go, well, what could have been done so I had energy in this moment, which is what you're discussing, right?

Absolutely. And here's a little simple one which people might be slightly surprised to hear me say, but I'll come back to why in a second, is that I'm a really big believer in power naps. Or 20, 15, 10, even 10 minutes. If you're sitting at your computer or you're doing a task and your eyes are needing matchsticks to keep them open, or you're just getting really sluggish and you can't function effectively, Well, get away from that work. Now, sometimes you're not— many people are not in an environment where they can take a little nap. But if you are, or if you've got the kind of employer that accepts that this is an integral part of our energy management, then obviously take the chance. If you're working from home, self-employed, it might be just push your chair back. And I've got so many stories about that. But equally, it could be get outside in the fresh air, go for a walk, get away from your desk. Change your activity so that you are starting to bring the energy back. The thing about— the reason that I talk about this one is that our energy goes in cycles of what they call ultradian rhythms. So ultra means many, dian means day— ultradian rhythms. And there's about 45 minutes up and then 45 minutes down typically. So the up cycle is 90 to 120 minutes and then down at the bottom— of that energy cycle is a dip. And that is typically 15 to 20 minutes. Airline pilots know this really well. They work in shifts of about 45 minutes apparently.

So just so I'm understanding right, you said there's an up and then there's a down, it equals about an hour and a half roughly. So is the—

And then there's a dip below that.

After the 90 minutes?

Yes, yes. Now if you're working out at a gym, anyone who does any kind of fitness will know that they're told to do reps. when they're told to take a rest, a short pause, after they've done a series of reps, for example, in doing weights or any kind of strength training. And the reason for that pause is so that the body can recharge. It's actually really important. But what happens in the business world so often, or in our busy lives, we think, oh no, I can't afford to stop right now. I've gotta push through. Well, it's really nonsense. Because if you don't stop, You are not allowing your body to recharge. You're not allowing even your brain to recharge. And you're pushing your body constantly into a state of flight or fight.

So how do you help the person who's sitting there going, I just, I don't have time to pause. I have so much on my plate. I could be parenting, it could be work. It could be I'm a caregiver for someone. How do you help that person?

Once they've actually tried stepping away and just giving themselves that short pause, They will find that they're more effective on the other side of that. So a little phrase that I have is, in order to go faster, first we must go slower. And some of the practical things about that, most of us have got some sort of phone these days that are smart. Many of us have got smartphones. So putting on— turn it to silent, but put an alert on there that just gives yourself however many minutes you've got. It might be only 5. But put that alert on and get yourself somewhere quiet. An example in commercial world, I was doing some work in London with a bunch of CEOs from different organizations. And there was one gentleman who'd just— his company had just fitted out Google in London, their big offices there. And apparently, and some of your listeners will know more about this than I, but apparently Google and companies such as that are now creating quiet rooms where the staff can— They are not allowed to do any work in there. It's for meditation, for prayer, for quietness, and they are encouraging people to do that because they know that these pauses make a difference. And Arianna Huffington, in her book Thrive, talks about this extensively too.

Yeah, she's a big believer in meditation and taking that time for quietness and what a power it can have. So in addition to taking that pause, which is Brilliant. Makes sense. What are other mistakes people can make in failing to do? Because that's what we're failing to do. We're failing to pause. So what are some major mistakes we can make when it comes to our time and our energy?

Oh, one big one is not, not, not creating chunks of uninterrupted time. Now, one of the big culprits on this, Mike, is email. Having email on all the time and having alerts on all the time. So What is therefore happening is that people are never getting a break without multiple, multiple interruptions. There is a vast amount of research now done by people like Microsoft, Google, all sorts of people, and an organization called the IOORG, Information Overload Research Organization, or something like group, or something like that. They've done a vast amount of research on this. An average knowledge worker in today's busy world loses out, loses a minimum of 25 to 28% of productive time per day due to interruptions. And email is one of the big culprits because the people that have got email coming at them all the time, either on their smartwatch or on their computers or their phones or whatever, they are never getting quality thinking time. They are being constantly interrupted. And it's not the time of the interruption only. It's also the time taken to reconnect back into whatever you were doing before. And there is this enormous slippage and wastage.

Well, that makes sense. If you're in a problem-solving situation or task and suddenly you step out of that and then you try to come back to it, you have— there's a different energy you're in, right? Responding to an email is a very different energy than creating, problem-solving.

Totally. It's a lower-level activity and obviously we have to manage those things, but the solution is to be chunking our time into blocks of high-level, high-value time where you don't take interruptions and you block them out in whatever ways are appropriate for yourself. If you're in a company, it may be that people around you are supporting you for your reg time, is one term, or thinking time, or whatever terms you want to use. And then maybe you're doing it for your colleagues later on because so many people live and work in open-plan environments. If you've got more control over your environment, the ones who have got doors that they can shut these days or the facility to work in blocks of time or chunks of time, they are the ones that have got better control. And that's all good. But so many of us don't. However, we can still carve out blocks of time when we don't take those calls or look at those emails. And then we go for another block of time It might be only 10 or 15 minutes every hour if you have to answer emails constantly, but nobody really should be able to— should have to go for less than half an hour in dealing with email. I mean, the world has got ridiculous if you can't cope that long without a response.

Absolutely. Now, you're bringing up technology and how much alerts and notifications. Are there positive examples of how technology can help us with that?

Oh, totally. I can't imagine what the business would be like today. Well, we would be doing— well, we know what we would be doing. It would be back like last century stuff. It's amazing. You and I are having this conversation right now. It's not costing us a dime, etc., etc. So I love that. Things like Xero, which I know is used internationally as one of the accounting packages, which came out of New Zealand, incidentally. Did you tell the people I'm a New Zealander? No, I didn't.

I did not, no.

So, my voice sounds a little different than an American voice. Yes, it does. Xero, which is spelled X-E-R-O, is a fabulous accounting package which has got your accounting all in the cloud. That's just one example. There are so many wonderful things. I would hate to be doing my work today, like publishing in the digital world. That's something with all of my 8 time management books that I've written, I've now just completed, or on the last few days of getting all of those books now into— wide into the digital space for people anywhere around the world. And there's nothing has to be shipped. It's all done digitally. It's an amazing world that we live in, Mike.

Absolutely. And you really work with a lot of people who have both a personal life and a family life as far as business life, family life, personal life. How do you— how do you help people make it all work together? What are some tips, techniques, and strategies for the one out there saying, wait, I run my business, I run my family. What about that? You know what? Yes, I can set aside this time on the workday to step aside, and they're following all the steps and strategies that we're giving right now. What are some additional things to take it to that next level when you're looking at your comprehensive life?

Right. Um, this one I've had a bit of practice at. I raised 6 children and have 17 grandchildren. So yes, managing it all with the family is a big one. One of the techniques that I stumbled across as a young mom, well before I was good at time management, but this was A couple of really quick ones is blocking out time for the family. Like, it might be, for example, one night a week you don't do things outside of the house— or you don't do things outside of the family, sorry. Another one could be to turn off all technology so that you're actually having quality time together. You're talking together, doing experiences together. Another one was I realized when the children were all young, I was always doing things for them. 'cause they all came in a 9-year period and that included a foster son with special needs, that we— I was so busy managing the doing stuff of all of this horde of small children that there were— I was never having a special time with any one child. So we instituted that. We put up a little chart on the fridge. Each child got to pick the activity they wanted to do with one parent, one child only, believe it or not, for half an hour a week. Which doesn't sound a lot, but it was that quality time. And I still have a beautiful memory of my then-husband sitting on the floor, 6-foot man, farming guy, sitting on the floor with our one little 3-year-old daughter, all the rest were boys, playing dolls' tea parties. And that was what she wanted to do. But she still remembers that, and so does he.

Sure.

She's now a mother in her 40s. So that's one. And another one is what I call a do-nothing weekend. That's saying, okay, this weekend we are taking no commitments. We are just hanging out, doing what we want to do. If somebody wants to stay in bed and read books all weekend, that's cool, but we're not taking any appointments.

I love it. That's a challenge for a lot of people to pull that off and make that work. In addition to what we just gave, you gave very specific, which is awesome, what about the person who's being interrupted? By people. You know, that person who constantly wants to talk while you're trying to work. How do you handle those interruptions when it comes to that time and energy management?

That's a great question, Mike. Sometimes you have to just have that courageous conversation, but not everybody's comfortable to do that. It may be you have to shift your environment in some way. One suggestion could be if you have a chair where people traditionally park, is you Shift the chair. If you've got a chair by your desk or in your office, get rid of it. Another really practical one is somebody's sitting beside you or talking or they're leaning on the partition nattering away and you need to move. So perhaps you stand up and you say, look, grab something off your desk and say, look, I've just got to walk to blah blah, the elevator, the receptionist, whatever. I'll walk with you. Or it might be somebody really lonely that really needs a friend. Can you perhaps say to them, hardly lift your head up, but just say, oh, look, I, I can see you at lunchtime, or shall we catch up at 4 o'clock when it's your lower energy time, or something along those lines? So just a few of the suggestions, Mike.

Well, what would be— you mentioned The Courageous Conversation, which obviously is a famous book some people may not be aware of. What would be a way to Have that. Like, what would be the language you would use in that moment? Would you say to somebody, look, I love— look, I love being able to talk with you. Unfortunately, when I'm in this work mode, I'm not able to be fully present for you, and I get behind. And so I want to be fully present for you. I want this to work. Could we talk after work? We go for a drink? Could we go for a coffee? How would you have that? Is that similar?

That's perfect. That's a great example. And another one that I I lucked into really when I just very first started my business was I've got a very favorite aunt. She's very special. She's now 95 and still going strong. So I'm talking 27 years ago, you do the math. And she was in the habit of— she hadn't been in the habit of ringing me during workdays while I was working in paid employment for an employer. She was respectful of that. But once I started working from home, And running my own business, I think she thought, oh good, while I'm having my morning tea, I'll ring up Robin and have a chat. And I realized the first time it happened that this had to be nipped in the bud. And I said, Peggy, I'd love to talk right now. I'm just on a deadline. Can I ring you tonight after 5? So it was respectful language, but it was putting boundaries.

No, that's great. That's perfect. And of course, you're great at this because this is what you do with time and energy management. I love that differential you made earlier. Robin, I want to thank you. I want to make sure that all of our listeners can find you, which they can do at gettingagrip.com, gettingagrip, or robinpearce.com, which is P-E-A-R-C-E dot com. Robin Pearce, and Robin's with a Y, R-O-B-Y-N. So thank you so much for joining us.

My absolute pleasure, Mike. I love the work you're doing. Thank you for asking me.

Oh, of course. And for our listeners, you know what's next. It is question of the week. This week's question is, Mike, what is a project you have not done that really intrigues you to wanting to do sometime in your life? For me, this is a mix between writing a script for either a Broadway kind of production, small production, I don't mean large cast, big musical, or a movie. And both scripts would be to challenge our society On concepts and constructs relating to respect and how they, how it shows up in our lives, but real deep thinking, thought-provoking. That's something that does intrigue me. Now, I haven't made it a priority obviously, because I haven't done it. All right. And if we know that it's a priority, then we'd be doing it. So when we say, oh, that's a priority and we haven't done it, when you just look in the mirror and go, no, it's not. And I know that's not a priority, but it's something I think about. I'd love to work with. writers in Hollywood or producers in Hollywood and really create something powerful on this discussion that could reach millions all in a short time span. That's something that does excite me that I look forward to diving into sometime in the future. What about you? What's a project you haven't done that you would love to still do? We'd love to hear your questions, your thoughts, and your ideas. And the best place to leave those with us is on our Facebook page at facebook.com/ Of course, you can always contact us on our website at mutuallyamazingpodcast.com. Remember to subscribe to this show so you automatically get it every week. And if you could take one moment to leave a review, that really helps other people find the show, which we are greatly appreciative of. So thank you so much for joining us. May you make today and every day a life full of mutually amazing relationships.