#99 Resiliency with Yvette Curre

Welcome to this episode. We're going to get right into it. I want you to meet today's guest. That is Yvette Curry. Give you a little background. Yvette and I, one of the first times we really hung out, had time together, was on an aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf. Actually, uh, is what helped me get onto that aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf, uh, as a resiliency officer. And when I say resiliency officer, not serving in the U.S. military, but in the role of a resiliency counselor Uh, on the ship. But yeah, we're out in the middle of the Persian Gulf and missions were being flying off to targets. And here we were on this incredible experience because you were brought in to help those serving in the US military with resiliency when they were being put into situations where they weren't going to be home as soon as maybe they hoped to be home and just help with the stress, everything that was happening at the time. And that's what we're going to talk about today. So first of all, welcome, Yvette. Great to see you.

Great to see you. Thank you. It's such a pleasure. Seems like we check in on each other maybe once, uh, once every 6 months, once a year, something like that.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, well, it's so great to have you on. I've had you on the past shows, uh, years past on my other show I used to have, and you're always such a great guest. And resiliency right now, as much as ever, is so important. And so Let's dive right into that. First of all, if you can give people a little background on what you do, Yvette, so they understand where we're coming from.

Okay. Yeah, I would— the title I use right now is a resiliency specialist. With all the work that I've done in different parts of the world with different populations, just kind of— I see my role as teasing out that thread of what is what is strong, what is resilient in people, and reminding them that that's what is innately, inherently in them. And so my official licensing title, I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, but the direction of my focus has really gone there in helping empower people with what they've already got going on.

I love that, with what you already have. So right now, what are What are concerns you see or struggles people are having? You know, we're filming this at a time for somebody that could be listening on the podcast 2 years from now. They could be listening to this. So we're filming at a time of isolation. What are struggles you're seeing people have regarding the importance of resiliency and helping them strengthen that?

Yeah, well, I like the timing on this conversation. I'm hoping that we can get some people pumped up and remind people of the good that's there, the inherent good. Some of the struggles I see is people maybe forgetting the rules of what is healthy for them, what's helpful for them, and entering into this zone of absolute fear and hysteria. And the thing I like to tell people is the same rules apply as pre-COVID. For one example I'll use is your mindset. If you're in a reactive mindset, whether you're in— whether you're pre-COVID or mid-COVID or post-COVID, that is not healthy for you to always be kind of taking a look at what is the worst-case scenario. That really takes us into a mindset of anxiety. And I look at it like the domino effect, and then this could happen, and then this, and then this. So So, the proactive approach and taking a look at what it is that we already possess, the rules, the same rules still apply as pre-COVID, as mid-COVID.

And so, when we see that happening, pre-COVID, post-COVID, what are the red flags they should be looking for? Like, what's the mindset that I want to catch? What are the thoughts? Then I might want to catch with myself.

Okay. So, take a look at fear-based what-if thinking. So, as I was saying about the domino effect, that only takes us to a place that doesn't serve us. This could happen and then this and then this next worst-case scenario. So, the red flags are a little bit of feeling what's going on in your body. Are you starting to feel terrorized? Are you starting to feel hysterical? So, taking a moment to step back from that and observe, observe those thoughts, observe your reactions, and ask yourself, is this reality-based? Is this something I can control? So, those are, those are some things that seem to be really effective with people when they start asking themselves those questions.

All right, so when they start asking that, what's the difference? Because I know people right now that are going, I feel like I'm losing it, but what they're experiencing is actually not losing it. So how does somebody also come down the paranoia, right, of, uh, am I, am I in trouble, when they can know that what you're— some of this, what you're feeling is normal, over here would be a red flag? Like, is there, you know, how do people measure that?

Okay, um, so part of it is what it is that's happening in your body. Like, are you feeling like you are losing control, hysterical, blood racing, pulse racing? Are you, are you going down this mental path in cognitive behavioral therapy, you know, these, these, these thought distortions like catastrophic thinking that's going absolute worst-case scenario? Well, the truth of the matter is checking in with yourself and asking yourself, The truth. Do you know for a fact that that is going to occur? The majority of times we can, we can, we can check that thinking. The majority, we're going to say, no, I don't know with absolute certainty that that absolute worst-case scenario is going to happen. And the truth of the matter is, we do not have control over what's going on out here, pre-COVID or mid-COVID. We have control over what's here. So, when we can get this part calmed down, spot the red flags, have that self-talk, maybe some other things you and I are going to get into physically that you can do, you operate out of a much more powerful position in making decisions. So, can I give you one example from sports?

Absolutely. That's what we're here for. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. Because I'm talking a lot. So, I think of when an athlete in a gym and they're lifting weights, if lifting from the side, okay, that is not good for your back. You're going to get pulled off to the side. It's always recommended— I'll say for the most part it's recommended— you want to lift those weights from the center. You want to use your knees, okay, from the center. It's the same with us emotionally. When we're operating from the center, we're not way out here with all these Predictive catastrophic narratives. When we're lifting from the center, we have much more wisdom. We have much more strength and power from there.

I love that analogy. That is so great because anybody who's ever done sports or lifting of any kind gets that. You have to have a strong core, right? That's— the core is so vital to so many sports, and the core is vital as we age, right? That becomes true of our bodies. And that's what you're talking about, our core, right? It's our center. The difference is it's just a little bit above the core we're talking about as far as physically on our body. Is it the heart core that we're talking about, or is it, or is it mental core? Is it both? How does— where, where is that core coming from?

Well, we are, we are people that are made up of the heart, The spirit, the physical, the mind, the emotion. We have all of those. So, when I say that, I mean, in an ideal world, a person's aligned, all of those are aligned. If just one's getting focused on, we're not going to be in balance and we might be more prone to reactivity.

And, what would be the difference? So, you gave a great example earlier of when you overthink catastrophic here. Is there feelings In the body you need to watch for as far as, uh, whether the hearts or the muscles or other things we can watch for that tell us, uh, I need to change some things here?

Yeah, a lot of checking in physically is really important. So it could be like, I check my pulse rate, so sometimes I'll be doing this when I'm talking to somebody. I can tell like there's— the blood's pumping. Uh, it could be for some people, it could be just going into this, um, this tunnel vision And really blocking out, physically blocking out any other stimuli, which can be a problem too if you're, if you're really zoning out anything else. Sometimes we forget, oh, this is good over here. I'm neglecting this too. This is good here too. So tunnel vision, racing pulse, it could be tightening and clenching, you know, clenching the jaw. Some people start tapping their foot. They're just like, you know, just really paying attention to that stuff. And then checking from the opposite direction. Okay, what's going on with me right now? Why am I doing this? So, we aren't always so conscious and tuned in that we're like, I realize at this moment I'm tapping my foot extra because that means I'm agitated. So, it can go in both directions. Does that make sense?

Yeah, no, it's great stuff. I love it, right? Because that helps us get aware. Now, I know you're a big believer in what we can do with the body to help with this because a lot of times when people think of resiliency, they think of I'm gonna need to— that's stereotypical— I'm gonna need to lay down on a couch and there's gonna be a therapist and we're gonna have to dig way back into my life to figure this out, right? I know you're giving that look right now, right? That stereotype is out there. You and I both know it, that stigma. So you— I know you talk a lot about, because we've talked about this in the past, the little things we all can do, the things that we can do that can make a huge difference physically, body. So let's go there, Yvette. What are things somebody can do When they are, when they're struggling with, with being resilient, what can they do body-wise, motion-wise?

Okay, and I'm laughing at that because I'm picturing that whole thing, lay on the couch and talk about your mother, you know, for 9 years. So no, that's, that's not what I'm about. So physically, there's a lot out there right now, and this, this goes back to my original point, pre-COVID Healthy steps apply now. So we are— I got distracted by what it says on this.

Yeah, that's Lisa saying hi. So hi, thanks Lisa for popping in and saying hi. So just so you're aware, anybody watching right now can leave comments and we can bring those in and talk about them. So as people are watching, comment. So ask about resiliency, ways Yvette can help you, and we'll be able to address that. So thanks, Lisa.

Yes. So, so more physical stuff, and it's out there right now a lot, is mindfulness and meditative practice. That still applies during COVID And mindfulness can include everything from tuning in to the sensorial perceptions. And I like to go with people down the list, you know, what are you hearing? What are you smelling? What are you noticing? What do you feel in your body? What do you feel in the chair? So getting, getting tuned in with your senses. And the reason for that is because, to my point earlier, when the mind starts going off-center, you know, like that analogy, it starts going out here to these what-if scenarios, and we're going way out here. We're no longer in the present moment in our bodies. We're out here in this agitated mindset. So you start doing simple things like Notice some colors you didn't see before, noticing sounds you didn't hear before, notice textures you didn't before. That'll bring you back. It could, for a lot of people, bring you back to the moment in your body, along with those breathing techniques. Those breathing techniques that we hear about— I used to say I don't need the hippie-whippy stuff, that hippie-whippy therapy stuff. Well, now I understand. You, as you're breathing, you're oxygenating your blood. You are in a shallower breathing state when you're agitated. When you're doing that, you're depriving your brain of oxygen. So allowing all of that to start flowing again, it makes sense you're going to start thinking clearer again. When you're in that clearer mindset, you're going to make decisions that are wiser. You're going to make much more informed decisions in a scenario you cannot control. So again, it doesn't change out here, but it puts you in a position where you can handle this stuff a lot, a lot better.

So, what are some breathing techniques? You know, you and I, that's something we both believe in deeply, but some people have never gotten that. So, what are some simple things people can do to focus on their breathing, to bring that breathing back into the body?

Okay. One example I learned while working with the military was box breathing. And it's, it's a mental image. So as you're inhaling, say, I like to say count to 6 while you're inhaling. I'm picturing this line in the top of the box and then pausing. And then as you're exhaling, you're going down the side of the box, counting to 5. And it's not 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. 2, 3, 4, 5. You pause at the corner and then back. So you're inhaling again. So imagining that while you're doing this exercise, and the main thing is it's bringing your attention back to your body, to an autonomic thing we just are doing constantly. Now you're aware of it, so you're more present again, and then you have the biological effects while that, that breathing intentionally is pressing on that vagus nerve, which is built into our system to help us relax. So, it's a lot of factors working at once.

Love that. That's cool. Now, so, that's a simple little thing, the breathing box. What are some other techniques? So, you've given some great ones so far. For anybody who wasn't there, you know, 2 minutes ago with us, the breathing, the tactical, right, becoming centered. And for anybody watching, we could be talking about putting your hands on your jeans and just slowly touching your jeans back and forth, right? And just to get a feel for something that is grounded, right? That's the idea. Does, you know, taking the shoes off and just feeling your feet to the ground— can little things like that that ground people, yeah, can that make a big difference?

Yeah, that's, that's really in line with, with some treatment modality methods in PTSD, you know, getting people to get right back into the present and not in that kind of dissociated mindset.

So I'm glad you brought that up because a lot of times, you know, you did obviously extensive work with the military. I work a lot with the military. People have a perception that this isn't cared about by our government or U.S. military, this topic, when in reality they're, they're cutting edge trying to find out what's working out there, what neurologically they're trying to serve. The issue is there's so many numbers to so limited providers, uh, and so that's one of the struggles. But you said it yourself, you're like, I learned some of this working with the military. And I think people don't realize how much is being done there.

Yeah, it is. There's a, there's a lot of different angles coming in, cutting edge, as you said, a lot of people who care. Yes, there's a lot being done.

Yeah, powerful. All right, so what are some additional tips you would really want everybody to get during this time of right now? We happen to be at a time of isolation. What are some additional tips people can take with them?

Okay, so you've asked for a few physical. So continuing on with the physical, when we observe certain things going on in us, if we're getting too reactive, if it feels like we're, we're getting a bit agitated, over the top, I like to use a number scale, you know, 1 to 100. If you feel yourself getting to maybe a 30, you might want to start backing yourself down. That's another way I look at it. So physically, I've had people describe return, almost returning to our primal state as we have more time on our hands in COVID, like getting out and gardening, getting out and planting their own food.

Love that.

Yeah, I'm like, this is interesting. It's like this side effect that I don't think anyone saw coming, and it's taking us back to our natural state in some ways. And it makes it— to me, it stands to reason that some people are thriving on that. So doing things of that nature, it doesn't have to be gardening. I've just heard a lot of people say that, Mike.

Yeah, but it is— it's a natural outside activity.

Yes, so that's giving us our vitamin D. You know, another part of this is a lot of what we've heard our doctors saying all along, you know, drink water, get hydrated, you're building your immune system. We need that right now. Getting outside, getting in the sun, getting that vitamin D, exercising, interacting with people who are safe for you. So, doing all these things that we already know, continuing those in a modified state.

Yeah, that's awesome. And, Marianne, thank you. So, Marianne works with our U.S. military. She works in the SHARP/SAPPER, SARC/SAPPER, SHARP program, depending on which service you're with. Uh, doing great work for our military, so she gets it. So thank you, Marianne. We love knowing that you're finding this helpful, and that's really what the show is all about. So that's awesome. All right, so we've gone physical, we've gone get outside, right? Put yourself in that different mindset. And, and you bet, you know, a lot of gardening people relate to it because literally your hands are in the ground, right? It's the ultimate sign of grounding because you're in the dirt. Right? You're having that. So those are— that's all physical. Is there other forms of physical or other mental or emotional we need to consider?

Absolutely. I've noted this in myself, and I've noted this in others I talk to, as well as the people I interact with at my church. And there's something powerful in getting outside of yourself. So being, you know, being in that fear-based mode, you know, trying to mitigate that and be like, well, I'm all good, and just kind of staying there. That is not going to be mentally resilient. That's not going to keep you mentally resilient for long. So finding ways of addressing what others are suffering through, what others are struggling with, you know, within your own means. Not saying to go out there and put yourself at any risk by any standard. So one of the things that I've thoroughly enjoyed doing when I go out to the grocery store, for example, is checking in on those people who are working working in those lines who, some of them look exhausted. I don't know what they're going through during the day, if they have a choice to come into work, I don't know. But I try to get them laughing. I try to add a little levity and just see if they're okay. You know, just like, you know, my question that seems to kind of get things opened up is, are you being treated with respect here? And sometimes they'll say, well, people are mad. You know, people are, they can't get their toilet paper or whatever and they're taking it out on us.

Right.

Just appreciate the question. And so, it's taking a look outside yourself and that is one way that I enjoy doing it, is checking in on other people, trying to get them to laugh, and let them know what they're doing is appreciated.

I love that. Alright, so that's serving others, right? So, we've got serving others, we've got emotionally being aware, center, love the center, getting outside for the body, moving for the body. What about movement? Like, are you a fan of yoga? Are you a fan of just any exercise? Are there certain things that can be more helpful than others?

Oh, absolutely. Well, this is an opinion, so what, what others are doing, you know, I, I absolutely love like CrossFit and all that, but those classes are online and I'm not, I'm not feeling the CrossFit online because some of it is being around other people and, and I'm very competitive too. So I, I like I go the different—

Which, by the way, the competitive individuals can really be freaking out right now because it's being taken away unless they can find an online competition. But that's not always healthy because then it's all about, I have to beat that, versus being next to each other where you can give each other a hard time and you can have fun with the competition. Online can get very different.

Right, right. Yeah, it doesn't have quite the same, the same thing. That's true.

Yeah.

So exercise-wise, I prefer bicycling and walking. And depending on where, where you live, where this, you know, where people are watching this, the laws are different with, with wearing a mask, not wearing a mask, social distancing and all that. So I do want to say one thing on that about us coming together as, as a human, as humanity. And not kind of turning on each other as, let's say, mask Nazis, for example. You know, if somebody is, is, is not quite following the protocol and one person is, I've seen people go at each other for that kind of stuff. And so I think another resilience factor is coming together and recognizing there is something stressful going on for a lot of us. Let's give each other a little extra grace. Or a little extra Just give a little extra.

Yeah, well, I love that statement. Give each other a little extra grace. That's, that's great terminology. So thank you for that. Any last tidbits? You know, we've covered so much. You've— it's been awesome. Any last tidbits you want to— you know, our listeners or viewers are gonna be like, I needed that.

Let's see. I think I've gotten into the majority of the nuggets of gold. I will say though, The fluctuations— this is one other point I do want to make— the fluctuations will continue. And so I've noted when people know what they can expect, even if it's not great, that does mitigate a little bit of the angsty feelings. So, you know, there's going to be rises and falls. We're going to continue on this course for a while. But it can be a sine wave. It does not have to be like spikes and dips, like massive fluctuations. We do have the capacity to mitigate that for ourselves through a lot of these steps that Mike and I have been talking about. Um, and expect, expect more of those, those waves to come in.

Yeah, that's great. You know, I, I remember it was Trevor Noah that I heard say it, but they were talking about, look, if when the pilot gets on and says we're about to have turbulence, you're like, oh no, but here we go, we're ready. But if they don't say it and suddenly you're getting rocked around, people are like, what's going on? What's going on? What's going on? And there's such a greater level of freakout and stress that we need to be honest and say, this is going to be a long ride and prepare for the ride because that allows people to have a rational understanding of what's happening.

Yes, that's it right there. That helps so much. Even if we don't like that outcome.

Right. Yes, I can prepare for it. Yeah. This has been awesome, Yvette. Where can people get ahold of you or find you?

They can find me at counseling sandiego dot org. That's the best place to go to find me.

All right, I'm going to put that right in our comments here. counseling sandiego dot org, is that right? Okay, awesome. And Currie is C-U-R-R-I-E. Hopefully they can see that right on the screen there, but just so they don't think it's a Y when they look you up there. All right, awesome. Thank you, Yvette. This has been fantastic. As always, you give such great content, such great insights for us to be able to implement in our lives.

It's good to see you. I didn't even get to, get to how you're doing, so we'll have to talk about that.

Yeah, we'll have to make time for that. Absolutely. So, uh, thank you. I really appreciate you, Yvette.