FEAR on today's episode of "Mike & Sam."
In this episode of the Mike and Sam Show, hosts Mike Domitrz and Sam discuss the nature of fear both in personal contexts—such as the anxiety of potentially losing a beloved dog—and in organizational settings. They identify the unknown as the core driver of fear and argue that poor communication from leaders, especially misleading reassurances about job security, amplifies that fear. The conversation moves to how transparent, vulnerable leadership—through role‑modeling openness and supportive reactions to employee mistakes—can dissolve fear and foster a safe culture. They share practical techniques for managing fear, including reframing "what‑if" scenarios by assessing realistic probabilities (the spider example) and focusing on controllable actions rather than imagined threats. Sam cites a poll showing 90% of employees feel safe sharing challenges, yet 10% still fear speaking up, underscoring the need for leaders to create environments where vulnerability is welcomed. The hosts conclude that eliminating fear at the individual level lifts collective performance, benefiting both people and the organization.
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Welcome to the Mike and Sam Show every week. This week we're on Thursday bringing something a little different here. And Sam, how you doing today?
I am great. How are you, Michael? It's good to see you.
You know, good. You know, you and I talk almost daily. Uh, today we had a little bit of fear this week that we were— we thought we were going to say goodbye to our dog, and that's scary, and all the emotions that go with that. And Overall, though, doing very, very well.
Awesome. Awesome. You know, it's interesting because we always have these amazing conversations. And we talk about, OK, so what do we want to talk about on the show this week? And we said, we should talk about fear. We can talk about fear in our life, but fear in organizations, fear in the culture, things that, you know, how that holds us back. And so, just a few minutes ago, I call you and I say, you know, I'm running a little tight. I just want you to know that that I'm gonna be there, not to worry. And you said, no problem. He said, I have no fear. You communicated with me. And so, I've got nothing to worry about. And it's in that moment, I'm like, wow, how cool is that? We're getting ready to talk about fear. And here, we had a situation that directly connects to it and correlates with it. And so, to me, the first thing that I said, well, we need to talk about is communication. I think that in an organization, And relationships between people, whether they're personal, whether they're business, it's the lack of communication that builds up fear because there's an unknown. And then, then we mentally fill in the blanks with usually worst-case scenario.
That's exactly correct. It is all about the unknown. And what you had said was, are you afraid I'm going to make it on time? That was what you asked. And I said no, because you've told me when you're going to get on. And as long as I know, I'm good, right? It's the unknown. that can cause fear in whatever level, like you said, personal, professional. Like even I brought up, you know, if we were to lose our dog in the coming days or weeks or months, it's the unknown of what that's going to feel like of missing, right? It's what you're missing and the emotional. Now, in the workplace, the unknown can be, will I have a job? Right? Right now, with everything happening in the world, the fear could be, will I have a job?
Right.
And unfortunately, some leaders do a horrible job of communicating on this topic. And they mislead like, no, no, no, you have a job, as if they're guaranteed a job when that person knows they're going to let go of someone. And as soon as that happens once, everybody on the team starts thinking, wait, they told them the same thing. Now I am afraid. Now I am afraid I'm going to be let go. Because if you did it to them, why won't you do it to me? And the unknown becomes fear.
Exactly. And so what happens is the leader in that situation, A, is not an accountable leader by my definition. Conversation for another day. But what's happened is they show that they don't care about their people. What they care about is the business. The business is more important than the people. So, as soon as you do that as a leader, you've built fear into your people. And now, they know the business is more important than them. And so, now what do they have to do? Well, they have to cover their butt. They have to take care of themselves. And now, in their minds, they come before the business. And now, you've got this natural clash. Whereas the leader, if the leader had just been honest and said, you know what? Here's the situation. This is what we're facing. I want this open communication. Well, then the people can relax. They don't have that fear. And they can drive hard. They can work hard. And maybe they can come up with a creative situation that's going to help what's going on. But the leader has to communicate and has to not create fear but eliminate the potential for fear.
Yeah, and sometimes fear is legit. Like losing your job is a legit fear, right? That's a natural human concern. Rachel, So hello, by the way. And we want— if you're watching right now, we want you posting. Say hello. Tell us examples of fear you've seen in the workplace, mishandled, handled well. But here's the deal. If you are afraid, let's say you're a boss and you're afraid of where the future is going, and all your people are afraid of where the future is going, the greatest thing you can do is say, let's sit down and talk about our fears. Let's talk about them. Because when you talk about fear, it weakens its strength. You know, Brené Brown talks about what you keep in the dark grows. What you bring to the light can, can be faded out. The light can drown it out. So bring it to light. One of the biggest mistakes we make with fears is we don't voice them, and they just internalize, and they become bigger and bigger and like all-consuming spiritually, emotionally, intellectually, all-consuming. More we talk about it— the one thing I love about our friendship, Sam, is that When we have fears in our business, whatever it is, we talk it out. And we— I always feel better because talking it out helps.
Yeah, sometimes there's this reluctance to share things that we're afraid of because in doing that, we think maybe that exposes a weakness that we have. And if that's the case, what's going to happen is the fact that we're not willing to share it means that we are not open to someone else helping us. And so we'll never grow to be our fullest potential. I cannot grow to my fullest potential to be my very best without help, without your help. If I don't share that with you, then you don't, you don't know what I need and you're not, you're, you're not gonna, you're not gonna be there. But when I do share that with you, you're there to help me and that enables me to grow to be my best.
Yeah, I love that. And another element of fear, and I learned this a few years ago listening to a I think it was like an audiobook, but it was really, really well done about a technique you can use when you're in a moment of fear. Typically, when you're in a moment of fear, it is a what-if hypothetical, almost always. Now, sometimes there's real-life fears, like, you know, somebody is, is having crime committed upon them. That's a real-life moment of, oh my gosh, what's happening to me? The far majority of our fears are what-if hypotheticals. This is true for parents. This is true for business leaders, managers. They're what-if hypotheticals. And this was a technique I learned. Somebody told me, let's say somebody's afraid of spiders, an example. Well, imagine the spider was on you, and then you might be terrified, but what's actually the worst thing that's going to happen? The spider's not deadly. It's not going to kill you. And if you play out the scenario and then ask yourself, what are the odds the spider is going to randomly show up right now? What are the odds this thing could actually happen? 1 in 100? 1 in 1,000? So why am I choosing to focus on the 0.1 versus the 99.9? I choose the 99.9 releases me of the fear. I thought that was a really neat, powerful strategy.
Yeah, yeah. I'm afraid of snakes because I had an encounter with a copperhead snake. And what's the worst that could happen? He could have bit me and killed me. But that's a separate discussion.
Um, all right, no, it's not. Because did he? Because did he?
Um, no, no.
So even though that was possible It didn't. Like, you ran into the worst scenario and you're still okay.
It's very rare that the worst happens. But here's the other thing that I discover. Fear happens when we think about or focus on or dwell on those things that we cannot control. And you and I have talked about this before. I can't control if a spider is going to march in that room right now. Okay. What can I control? Well, I can control whether or not we hire a company to come spray our house quarterly. I can control whether or not I go to the store and buy a can of some sort of spray that I spray myself. I can, you know, those are things that I can control if I have a fear of spiders. But the things that I can't control, if I spend any time thinking about them, it's a total waste of time. It bogs me down, and then my fear literally stops me in my tracks. And so now, instead of moving forward, moving forward in my business, moving forward in my life, I'm doing nothing. And so that's the key. We have to focus, keep our focus on what we can control, not like you said, the 99%. Of what never is going to happen anyway, things that we can't control, and then we can keep moving forward.
Well, and the scary part is the night though, when you focus on the point one, like you said, you're doing nothing. Actually, you're causing more harm because of doing nothing. You're going to a place of toxicity mentally, everything. The business is now stalled because you're not getting things done. So you're actually going to a place of negative. It's not neutral. People like to say, well, when You know, paralysis by analysis, all that, that you're in a neutral state. No, you're not. You're in a negative state, and everybody around you is being given that energy. So, you have to say, it's not fair to everybody for me to be in the 0.1. That's not fair to everybody else. I need to get to the 99.
Right. And that negative, that fear, negative attitude gets to be catchy. Nobody wants to be around that. Let's switch gears, Mike. Let's look at an organization because I had a situation earlier today where I did a I was working with a client and I actually did an online poll. And I said, is it safe to share if you have a challenge or you need help? And 90% said it was safe. 10% said it wasn't. And so, I think that's overwhelmingly that it's safe. But 10% is afraid. They're afraid to share. They're afraid to say they have a challenge. This is something that is the leader's responsibility as the accountable leader is to create an environment where people aren't afraid to say when they have a problem. But they do feel safe. They do feel that they can share. Because if they don't share it, then like you said, it festers, it grows, it gets worse. If they do share it, then they're able to get the help, they're able to solve the problem, and the organization is going to thrive. So as a leader in an organization, it's incumbent upon us that we look for ways to create an environment that does not create fear, but that dissipates fear, and where people feel safe— safe to share, safe to ask questions. Because as leaders, probably what What we're doing is we're proactively communicating, providing information, and exhibiting through our actions that we want to hear what's going on in people's lives.
Yeah, there's 2 ways you do that as a leader. 2 ways. One, role model.
There's 3.
All right, I'm gonna go with 2. I'm gonna go with my 2. You might add more. You might add 2. I'm afraid you may be wrong though, but we'll go with 2.
Okay.
So, no, there's many. I'm just gonna share 2. One is role modeling. If you do not role model being vulnerable and being open and be willing to have difficult conversations, why should I trust coming to you and feeling safe with you if I've never seen you be vulnerable and really open up to me and/or to others? It doesn't— there's no consistency for me to rely on. That's one.
Exactly.
Number 2, how you react when others have been vulnerable, and that includes an error. When they've made mistakes, when they've done things wrong, and when they've come to you and opened their heart or opened up or admitted a failure that they didn't want to admit, what did you do? Did you like, hey, it happens, how can I support you? Or were you like, that just can't happen. Like, that's the biggest mistake. We can't have that happen in our company. Well, the person knows that. So what are you doing to support? Those 2, I think, are super critical. Now you've got more. So what's, what's 3 and 4?
Now we'll stick with 1 and 2. I just think there's always 3. That's all.
I do like the power of 3. You know that. Yeah.
No, I think you're right on track. I, we set the example. But if somebody shares something and then we jump their case, are they ever going to share it again? You know, it's not going to happen. And so, there is a responsibility on the leader to create that, that sandbox where people feel comfortable and willing to share. When we eliminate fear in our lives individually, when we create a place where the people around us feel safe, where they want to be, everyone Everyone's going to perform at a higher level. Everyone's going to achieve at a higher level. The people are going to do better individually. We're going to do better collectively. Our organizations are going to do better. And that's going to position us to move forward.
Love it! What a place to wrap it up right there because we don't want anybody fearing that we're gonna go too long today. Well, this is a great way to succinctly— Sam, how do people find out where to get our show?
Well, we're like, we're all over the place. It's unbelievable. But certainly youtube.com/TheCenterForRespect or youtube.com/TheCenterForRespect. And feel free to subscribe to both of us. Give us a thumbs up on the video. We love that. Click on the bell so that you receive notifications. Share it with other people so that they get the message. And then, of course, on iTunes, you can catch the podcast as well.
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See you next week.
