"Mike and Sam" Discuss Understanding

Welcome to Mike and Sam. Hey Sam, how you doing today?

I'm doing okay. It's been a challenging past few days.

It has been, yeah. Challenging week, week and a half, and for, for some, challenging for several months, for some much longer. And so we're going to talk about that today. We decided we want to talk about understanding and understanding others Understanding emotions, empathy, understanding what it all can mean. So, Sam, let's dive right into this. Why do you think understanding is so important for people to discuss and think about?

Well, that's a powerful word. And there's a lot, there's a lot there. Where to start? Boy, you know, you know, I'm about service. That's what it's all about for me. It's, it's, I believe that, that we're We're supposed to find what our purpose is in this world, and our purpose is going to be reflected in some form of service. I don't think earning $1 million is our purpose. That can be a goal. You can want to earn financial freedom, but your purpose is going to be expressed in some form of service. And I think to serve people, you have to serve people where they are, and you have to get to know them, and you have to understand them. And so, We think we understand people. We think we understand the situation. But just because we think it doesn't mean it's true. And so, gaining understanding is something that takes a lot of time, a lot of energy, and a lot of effort. And most people don't put that kind of time and energy in to truly understand others. They think they know them. But they probably haven't invested the time to really get to understand What they're going through, what they're experiencing, what they believe, and those sorts of things.

Yeah, what a lot of people want to do, and we all do it at times, is we jump to assumption instead of asking. You know, they both start with the same letters, but they're very, very different. Yeah, versus asking. Assumption is, I can assume what you're going through, I can assume what you're feeling based on my perspective of what I'm watching you do.

Right.

That's the whole problem. It's based on your history, your perspective, your lens, and how you see the world.

Yeah, you're running it through your filter, and your filter is your filter, and that's not accurate. What's it like being in their shoes? You know, I actually shared a story that I haven't— I don't know if I've shared. It's in the book that I just sent the manuscript to the publisher, coming out later this year. And It's about a woman that used to work for me. You know Sharon, and she's African American.

Absolutely, yep.

And we're at the airport. She travels with me. I have a speech. She was there. We're getting ready to go home. We get to the airport. Turns out we get there and there's some earlier flights. And I go, Sharon, you ought to get on the earlier flight. She says, great idea. So I walked down to her gate 'cause my flight's gonna be after hers. She goes up to the gate agent and he looks her up and down. She says, I'd like to get on the earlier flight. Now you need to know Sharon's African American. I mean, that's— it's relevant to the story and that's why I'm telling you that. But the gate agent looks at her and he goes, you have to have status to go standby. And I was in that moment, it was like I was physically pushed back. It was the most disgusting thing I'd ever experienced myself. And I just blurted out, I said, she has status. She's platinum. She flies more than anybody that you see right now. And so he backtracked and he let her go standby, yada, yada, yada. The point being though is I'd always heard about discrimination. Based on color. I felt like I was sympathetic and understanding to it. But until I was there and almost experienced it firsthand, it wasn't me, but I was standing shoulder to shoulder with her. It was totally different then. I realized exactly how serious that is. And so, we can say we understand someone's situation. But unless we make a significant investment in really getting to know them and experiencing them, We don't truly understand their situation.

Yeah, I would say that even in a situation like that with you and Sharon, we, we still don't understand Sharon's experience. We better understand it, right?

Exactly.

But we don't understand it because it was, it was still from your perspective, right? And so that's a great example. I had somebody, and I think this is a great question for you and I to address. Somebody reached out to me recently because I've been doing some livestream panels, as you know, and we have one tomorrow. Thursday, 10:30, we're going to do one on YouTube. And, and this person asked, Mike, I'm asking this question sincerely. And so this person could be watching right now. Uh, there are things I'm afraid to ask, and I don't want to say the wrong thing. I don't want to do harm. My son's friend who lives in our neighborhood is over a lot. He is a Black individual. And how do I help talk with him about what's happening in the world? How do I appropriately say it without saying the wrong thing? And what he was really trying to ask was, how do I help understand him so I could— so I can be more of a support, more of an ally in those moments, or talk to my son about talking to us? And right away my heart was like, ask. Ask him. There's only one way I can know how to best support someone. Ask the person.

If we don't get in a conversation with people, and if we don't enter the conversation with Not with an agenda, not trying to prove something or prove our opinion, but truly wanting to learn and enter it with an open heart. If you do that, then you're going to gain that understanding. You're going to gain connection. You'll have a meaningful conversation. We have the chance to grow. Some people try to get into conversation with an agenda. They just want to prove their point. They're trying to sell something. They want to get you to buy in. And by sell something, I'm not talking about a product or service. I'm talking about an idea, a concept, a belief. And so, it's yes, we need to enter into these conversations, enter them with an honest and open heart, with the goal of better knowing the other individual, better knowing what their trials and tribulations are. And specifically ask, how can I better serve you? How can I be here for you? How can I help? There was a great interview the other night on The Tonight Show, 2 nights ago, it was on Monday night, and Jimmy Fallon was interviewing Don Lemon from CNN. Jimmy goes, what can I do to help? It was in context to this conversation. Don said, well, join NAACP. Jimmy Fallon had never thought of that before. And so he asked that question. He received a response. It made sense. It made sense to me. It made sense so much to me that I went out and joined the next day. I don't know what Jimmy did, but the idea is if you get into a conversation and ask sincere questions, you gain understanding.

Yeah, and that's just it. I think you say the key word there, being willing to learn when you ask the question. Not just asking to get the right answer, asking to learn and be willing to be vulnerable to it could hurt you to hear the answer. Because sometimes you're going to hear an answer that reflects back on your own past history, uh, actions you've chose, words you've said, that you're going to be like, oh my gosh, I've done that. And the natural mechanism can be, but I didn't mean it that way, but I didn't mean it that way, instead of do Thank you. Thank you for sharing that, because I have made that mistake in the past. And I would never want to make that mistake going forward. Like owning it. Trying to deny it makes the other person feel like you're acting like this doesn't really happen, or as long as they don't have the wrong intention, then, and it takes away from their actual experience.

Exactly. And what that makes me think of is a message that I share with my audiences all the time. No, no matter what the topic of that particular day is, Are you looking to get better? Because that should be the goal. Are we looking to be better? You know, if we're dealing with an organization that's at the top of their field, they're number one, they got to be that way because they wanted to be better. Well, do they still want to be better? Do you and I want to be better? And if we're trying to be better, better people, better human beings, better fathers, better sons, better leaders, whatever it is, then then we engage with the idea of growing through that and being willing to be transparent, to say, I've made mistakes. I'm sorry. I've messed up. And not trying to enter the conversation to prove that you were right. But enter the conversation to learn, to grow, to be better. That's the intent that's going to take to drive past any barriers because here's the thing. If we don't enter the conversation that way, then what happens is we ask a question, someone shares something with us, we don't hear it because we're just, yep, I got that, I got that, I mastered that, I do that. We're filtering that all through instead of going, oh my gosh, and really hearing what they have to say and then being willing to be vulnerable and say, you know what, I've been screwing this up. I am so thankful for you sharing that with me.

Yeah, it's so important. And by the way, if you're watching right now, please leave a comment because we want to hear from you. We want to understand your perspective on this, how you've You what's happening. It's all about understanding. That includes anybody watching this right now. So please feel free to leave a comment, uh, because we'll highlight them if they're appropriate to have in this discussion. We'll bring them in the discussion because this is so pivotally important, uh, is that conversation of how we understand each other. And it doesn't have to be any one specific topic, right? Sam, you and I, how we listen to each other can depend on where we're at on a day. There, there are days we're not at our best place, and I'm not the best listener for Sam, and Sam might even feel that, right? And so sometimes we have to understand when it's the right time to have these conversations. Now, that doesn't mean put them off long, long term, because then we're ignoring the topic, we're ignoring the problem. But it might be the next hour is not right for me. I am in a very unstable— you know, I could be— I'm feeling emotionally unstable. I need a couple hours to just relax, bring it down, and then engage in the conversation.

Well, and that's it. We've talked about this before. Be present in the moment. Don't ask the question if you're not willing to sit and truly listen and truly learn. And so that understanding then, in that moment, if you're truly listening, truly engaged, you have to gain greater understanding. And if you gain greater understanding, then hopefully, you'll gain greater compassion. It's not empathy that'll drive you to action. It's compassion that will drive you to action. And so, when you gain that compassion from that understanding, hopefully, that drives us to action, to doing something that signifies that we are being better. And if we're taking actions that recognize and signifies we are being better, we're going to get a better result.

Well, yeah, and I do want to bring up empathy because I know you said something that drives you, it's compassion, and empathy starts the compassion. I, I'm a big believer. Yeah, I was once working, talking to a bunch of leaders in the U.S. military, doing a training for them, and one of them spoke up. He was an admiral, and he said the greatest trait a leader has is empathy, because if I don't understand where you're at, it's hard for me to be compassionate in the appropriate manner. that is needed. And so I think both are really essential to that conversation, that I come with empathy, that I can lead with compassion, right? I enter with empathy to lead with compassion. Marta here is, you know, bringing up a great point here. How do you bring it back to that space where you can learn? Oh, that, that's a great question, Marta, because— When we get frazzled, right, it's tough to be in that space. Sam and I have both been in those moments in life. Uh, I think, Sam, this really relates to what you and I were discussing earlier today. Marta, I'm doing a panel tomorrow of differing personalities being represented on this panel, and different political perspectives are going to be represented on this panel. And some people said, how dare you engage people of this certain belief or system? And others became defensive, and you could see the defense mechanisms coming up in all different directions. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's not make this personal, even though that can be difficult, right? Because it, for some, it is personal. But let's remove name-calling. Let's remove any words that are individually attacking. And let's see if I were to lead this conversation with love and respect, how I would word this. And so, Marta, that's one thing that I would recommend. I would say we, we step back and go If I were to lead this with love right now, what would I say? What would be the way I would word this? Sam, what do you think?

Well, here's the thing. If we aren't willing to listen to various perspectives that aren't our own, then, then we've already made up our mind before we go in. We just want to hear more people that talk like us, that think like us, that have the same opinion as us. That's a narrow mind. And so, I think if we don't open the conversation up to people that do have varying opinions but are willing to speak with respect, to share with respect, to listen with respect, I think that's where we gain this understanding. That's the environment that we gain understanding. Not willing to listen to someone because they have a different belief, that shuts it down.

But yeah, and I know, and I know Marta. So Marta works for our U.S. military discussing these topics of respect and creating a culture of respect, doing incredible work. So one thing that I would also bring up, Marta, is sometimes when we're in that place, we're in that work, it's not always our— the onus is not always on us every second to be, to be in a place of learning. So I also invite you to be compassionate and to know when you're not in a place of learning, So you can go take care of you. Then you can come back and be in a place of learning. You asked, how do I get back to that place? By taking care of you. And that's really, really important. Sometimes we can put so much on our shoulders that I have to do everything right and I have to be the right answer all the time. Sometimes you just need, we need to step away when we're able to.

Yeah. And so, you know, and I see we have a comment here from Michelle Matt. She says, hi, it's great to have you, have you visiting with us today and listening in. Appreciate your participation in the conversation. You don't always have to. And this is great. Michelle's just sitting here and saying hi. She's not expressing an opinion. She's not asking a question. She's just letting us know that, hey, she's here and she's supporting. And that goes towards understanding also. When you enter a conversation, it's not about monopolizing the conversation. It's not trying to direct the conversation. It's being a part. It's taking up the right amount of space. And sometimes the right amount of space is just listening. It's just being present. It's just supporting someone. And, and that can be really powerful as well. And quite frankly, you're going to gain a lot more understanding when you're doing the listening than when you're doing the talking.

Absolutely. I think a key thing here to think is, what does this person need right now? Like, this person could be bringing what feels like hatred at you. So maybe you ask yourself, what does this person need? Right? Maybe that person needs understanding and they wouldn't be so visceral if somebody had taken a moment to understand them. I am— my program is a very controversial topic in some people's minds. And so there are times in my program people come at me very aggressively where most speakers aren't used to that from stage. I am. It happens in my line of work. And the one thing I want to do is I want to engage that person. I want to be, hey, thank you for sharing. Let's talk about this so that they know that this is a conversation. I'm not there to prove them wrong. Here, I'm going to bring up that comment from Daniel.

This is great. This is everything you gentlemen have said so far. I agree with when I facilitated conversations about privilege, especially white male privilege. Working through the initial defensiveness slows the process to understanding and compassion. Absolutely. Well, the challenge is, is that most— I'm not going to say most of the time, but certainly many times, and maybe most of the time, In this situation, someone that has white privilege, white male privilege, they don't realize it. And it's, in all fairness to them, it's just the way it's been. It's what they're used to. They don't know that it's any different. That's all part of what's going on. And so they don't realize it. So yes, so you do have to somehow find a way to break through that barrier that is built just out of not knowing. And so, being able to elicit, to ask questions, to communicate effectively, to not try and prove someone wrong but to shed light on a situation and to hopefully deliver some understanding, getting back to that word, then what happens is that individual opens up. And then, if they are truly coming at the conversation with an open heart and a desire to be better, Then what they're going to eventually get to is go, oh my gosh, you know what? I never looked at it this way. I never saw it this way. I never realized it was this way. And when that happens and they gain that understanding, then you're in a position, Daniel, to be able to teach and to elevate these people to be the best they can be.

Yeah, and we could do a whole show, and maybe we will down the road, on white privilege because it is an important topic of understanding. And here's the key. That person also might have an understanding in their mind that by saying white privilege, we are implying they've done something wrong.

Right.

And that's not what we are teaching. That is not what we're discussing. They think it's their fault they have white privilege and they feel guilty or shame, or that's what people are telling them. That's their understanding, even though that's not what white privilege means at all. That's not what it's representative at all. But their understanding could be that if I understand that's their understanding, we can step back and go, oh, this isn't about saying you've done anything wrong. This isn't about— we can discuss that.

It's— yeah, it's not about if you've done something wrong. It's about how do you make it better. You know, on, on, on my mother's side of the family, I'm first-generation American, U.S. citizen. My father My grandparents on my father's side came here just a few years, like 3, 4 years at tops before he was born. You know, the issues that we're facing today go back 400 years. My ancestors were not in this country 400 years ago, 300 years ago, 200 years ago, 100 years ago, but I, as a white male in the United States, benefit from the situation that is That is present. But if, if I don't have that understanding, if someone like Daniel or someone else hadn't taken the time to sit down and have a conversation with me, I would not gain that understanding. And then I would not be in a position to act differently. And that's the whole goal. Through gaining understanding, we learn. And when we learn, we can act differently. If we gain understanding and we don't act differently, then it's all for naught. But if we truly want to be better, or we want to create a better community or a better world, then we have to use the— take the time to gain the understanding and then use that understanding to act differently.

I think that's a beautiful place for us to pause at and wrap up at, because that's what it's all about. Understanding is about enabling us to make better choices going forward. And those choices could be with language, they could be with actions. But that's what understanding is all about. That's what we want to talk about today. Hey, Sam, thanks for joining me today.

Hey, it's my pleasure, Mike. It's great to be here. And for everyone that's watching, we really appreciate you being here. We appreciate the comments. We'd love for you to subscribe. You know, you can go to youtube.com/TheCenterForRespect or youtube.com/SamSilverstein. Subscribe, click on the bell so you get notices when either one of us posts something. And we'll see you next time.