Sexual Assault on College Campuses discussed on Wisconsin Public Radio

It is The Morning Show. I'm Kate Archer Kent. The red zone, as it's referred to, is this period of time in the first months of the college academic year when students on campus are most vulnerable to sexual assault. We're in the red zone now. We examine programs aimed at ending sexual violence and changing behavior about consent. And you can call in with a question. You can add comments along the way. The number to talk is 800-642-1234, email ideas@wpr.org. And please be aware, this is a sensitive conversation and take care. Mike Domitrz is here, founder of the Center for Respect, a Wisconsin-based group focusing on sexual assault prevention education. Mike, welcome back to the Ideas Network.

Thanks for having me back, Kate. Looking forward to today's discussion.

Yes. So looking at this research in the Journal of American College Health, it shows more than half of college sexual assaults occur in the fall semester. How do colleges assess rates of sexual assault on their campuses?

Well, then, so this is important to discuss. I'm glad you brought up the red zone. And one of the things that people do is they focus and they say, hey, more than half are in the— like we just said, right, the first semester. Well, there's only 2 semesters, so more than half, we want to be careful of thinking that means that there's way more in the first semester than there is in the second semester. It's a pretty consistent issue and problem on college campuses. The risk that people look at is the first 2 weeks to a month because of the incoming class being new to campus and new to the environment. Sometimes you can have predatory behavior, people looking for those more vulnerable or naive to try to prey on during that time. And that's usually what the focus point is of the red zone, is to try to help those students be more aware of what's happening, the dangers that are around them. Now, we try to focus on, hey, stop the predator, instead of focusing on telling somebody else, make sure you do everything right so you're not sexually assaulted. Instead, how about we all stop the person we see giving someone too much alcohol or trying to feed someone drugs just for a sexual situation?

Do you find that colleges truly understand their own red zones? Do they understand the impact of sexual assault on their campuses?

That is a great question, because if you looked at what schools are doing, it varies dramatically across this country and how seriously they take this and how proactive they take this. So some do the bare minimum, and the bare minimum is what Title IX requires. And so that means that we have to do something in the first week or orientation or in the first few that gives the bare minimum requirements of how we handle these cases, of what to look out for, the statistics, right? Others will say, no, no, we're gonna do way better than that. And they're gonna be proactive, and they're gonna bring in programs that say, hey, here's skills for everybody to use to treat each other with respect. Here's what consent looks like, what it sounds like. Know that it's okay to say no. Like, really empower the students to know their rights and their boundaries. That's where we get to a healthy place on college campuses, when students are trying to build healthy relationships versus just trying to stop the bad. If I tell you don't do something, Kate, you're sitting there going, all right, well, what do I do? So we really want to focus on helping students understand what to do, how to live a healthy relationship, respect other people's boundaries.

I would imagine also college campuses, college administrators want to project that their campus is a safe place, that they are proactive, and that they are showing and explaining to students with their programs that it is a healthy place. Colleges are required by law to publicly disclose their statistics about campus violence and yearly safety reports. How reliable are these figures?

Well, so those figures are based on reported cases, and so that can be misleading because we know so many cases are never reported. And one thing that parents can make the mistake of is looking at the numbers— and students, incoming students can do this— they look at the numbers and go, whoa, geez, that campus over there has double the amount of reports than that campus over there. But that could be because that campus with double the reports actually is way more proactive, does way more education, and survivors feel safe coming forward. They might actually have less sexual assaults taking place than the one who has low numbers and isn't doing anything about the topic because they go, well, low numbers, it's not happening. So survivors don't feel safe on that campus coming forward. So the danger is thinking the numbers mean that more is happening there. That might not be the case. What we want to ask our campus, if you're a parent or you're an incoming student is, what are the programs you provide to address healthy relationships that are required? That, that's a key question.

What—

how proactive is this campus at requiring education around these topics?

Mike Domitrz is with us, founder of the Center for Respect, as we look at sexual assault prevention in higher education institutions and what is being done now. You can join in the conversation with your question And your thoughts along the way at 800-642-1234, email ideas@wpr.org. Mike, you've been at this a long time, a public speaker for 30 years. When you address a room of college students, how do you know if you're getting through to them?

Well, we're fortunate. We actually track. And so what I mean by that is there's a couple of ways you know. I am not a talking head. And so what I mean by that is I'm not getting up in front of a room and just talking for an hour. I'm getting in a room and in 30 seconds I'm asking the audience, hey, do people ask or go for it? And the whole room, whether it's 100 or 1,000 or 2,000 students, yells they go for it. So even though they know asking is what they were taught in high school, they were never taught in a way that they thought it was realistic. And so they're still going by the old ways. Now there are some that are asking and there is progression that's there. That's wonderful. But we still have a long ways to go. So suddenly they're going, hey, people go for it. And then we have a conversation. Why aren't we asking? And they're giving the answers. So it's their world that we're diving into. We're not coming in telling them, stop doing this, stop doing that. We're helping them realize, hey, I want to do better. I actually want to ask. So students are walking out of the room going, I can't wait to ask. I can't wait to honor my partner's boundaries. And the reason we know that works, Kate, is the students take a survey. on their phones when they walk out of the room, and they know that their name is not attached to their answers. The school doesn't see who said what. 93 to 97% of students say that after the program, they're more likely to ask. 93 to 97% of students say they're more likely to intervene at a party to stop a sexual assault. Same numbers to support survivors. And keep in mind, they're open-ended questions like, what are you going to use from today? I'm going to ask. I'm going to do this. They're not leading. They get to choose what they want to fill in there. So what that tells you is that students want to do the right thing if we give them the right education to do it. That's the key piece here.

And so in this arena of being proactive and teaching about boundaries and consent and sexual decision-making, when a survivor of sexual assault shares with someone that they are a survivor, doesn't share with local police, but what questions can an ally ask, or what can I do to best support them?

I, I love this question, Kate, so thank you, because this is an area that a lot of people struggle in, and they fall into one of two responses. The one response is, oh no, who did it? That anger, that vengeance— I want to know who did it. Well, that sounds investigative and can make the survivor think, whoa, whoa, you're not focused on me, you're focused on them. It can actually be very harmful and traumatic for the survivor. Another response can be, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, which sounds nice, but it can come off as pity. And the last thing a survivor wants is pity in that moment. So what we want everybody able to do is to comfort the survivor with a statement such as the following: thank you so much for sharing. Clearly you are strong, you are courageous. How can I help? How can I be of support? And then listen for what the survivor needs in that moment. That's really important. Years ago, people used to always say the first thing you need to say to a survivor is, I believe you. And I can't tell you how many survivors find that highly offensive. If you go, the first thing you say is, well, just so you know, I believe you. They can have a mindset of, why wouldn't you? And why do you stress I? Is no one else going to believe me? But if I ask, how can I help you? How can I support you? And you say, I don't think anyone's going to believe me. Now it makes sense for me to go, I do. I believe you because I'm listening to what you need in that moment, what you're seeking for support in that moment.

Looking back at the I believe you statement and the data from Vector Solutions showing 86% of survivors tell their peers if they experienced sexual assault, about 6% tell campus or local police. What do you make of those statistics?

Yeah, that's been consistent. That is not new. And that's why I referred to earlier when you asked, hey, how do we know the numbers are— well, there you go, right? You just saw that 6% say they tell the school. So that's what's going to show up in the school numbers potentially. And so that's why we have to create safer spaces. We have to teach students how to support that survivor so they feel safe coming forward. You know, with the statement, how can I support you? The other thing we do on every campus we work with is the next thing we discuss is what are the resources here and how wonderful they are, so that you as an ally could offer to go with them so it doesn't feel as scary to go to those resources, so they can get the support they deserve. They can discover therapy or counseling to help them move forward through this process. And that's really a beautiful thing we want to support the survivor be able to go through. So it's not just saying, hey, what do I say here? It's also how How do I provide resources without doing one of these, Kate? Uh, you've got to do this, you got to go here, you got to tell them, because it sounds like I've lost control. You're trying to control me. That's the last thing we want to do to a survivor. We want this to be their choice.

We heard from Margie, who emailed to say that they're a deputy Title IX coordinator on a college campus, and they strongly believe that higher reported numbers are a good thing, and it means a culture of understanding and support has been created. So, uh, Margie, echoing what you say there, to look more deeply at what Absolutely.

I mean, this was the biggest mistake. We saw this also in the military. People go, the numbers are up in the military. Well, look how more proactive an education is in the military. So survivors are being more supported. That's why I'm glad that Margie brought that up. And, you know, you're hearing from somebody on a campus. They, they know what's happening there. And we see this consistently.

Mike Domitrz is founder of the Center for Respect. It's based in Wisconsin, focusing on sexual assault prevention that promotes a culture of respect. And there's more to that than just the numbers. Great discussion ahead about college sexual violence, what can be done. And you can call in with a question. You can share your thoughts along the way, 800-642-1234. Email ideas@wpr.org. I'm Kate Archer Kent. You're listening to The Morning Show on The Ideas Network. It is The Morning Show. I'm Kate Archer Kent. We discuss the spike in campus sexual assaults that occur at the beginning of the school year in this period of time that is referred to as the red zone. We have the founder of the Wisconsin organization, the Center for Respect. Mike Domitrz on how to change behaviors around consent. Be mindful, though, that this is a sensitive conversation, and do take care. You can join in the discussion. You can ask a question. You can share thoughts at 800-642-1234, email ideas@wpr.org. Mike, rewinding to 2017, the MeToo movement coming in force and launching a renewed focus on reducing sexual assault and harassment. Are schools safer today? than before the MeToo movement?

I would not guarantee that schools are safer today after the MeToo movement, because here's what we saw during the MeToo movement. We saw people who went, wow, those people who were getting the media attention that were predatorial, they went, wow, look at those monsters. Well, we don't have those here. And so they didn't even think the MeToo movement applied to them.

Hmm.

And so what you saw is you actually saw people going, not here, because it were not the evil monsters we've seen projected in the media news coverage. You know, the cases that they saw, it's not the media's fault. Those were the cases that, that happened, right? And they were addressing the cases that happened. But people said those were so extreme, I don't see that in our workplace, so we don't have a problem here. Versus, well, what are the subtleties that take place that lead to this that happen everywhere? And that would have allowed a real conversation to take place that could create a safer environment.

What should people who know they're guilty of sexual misconduct— what should they do?

So the question here, Kate, is going to be, do they care? And there are people who have done wrong who, when they figure out, oh my gosh, what I did was wrong, they don't ever want to do that again. And they actually want to do the right thing. And I've had people after my programs come up to me and say, I recognize today I've done some things in the past I never want to do again, and I don't ever want to treat somebody like that again. And so how do I move forward? Right? And they want to do the right thing. Now, those who think what I did was fine and they don't care that they caused harm—that's difficult to find treatment for somebody who doesn't want to get help. Right? So those are people that. Ideally, obviously, you hope the system catches and we get them out of general society because they're a danger to every human being. Now, the person who even said, hey, Mike, I've, I've done this and I don't want to do wrong, that also doesn't mean they don't get to be held responsible for what they did wrong, right? So yes, you can be forgiven and held responsible. Both can be true. Because we will have survivors say to me, well, you know, I want them to be held responsible. But I also do forgive them, and both can be true. A lot of times people think if you forgive, then you don't have to hold people responsible. That's simply not true.

Hmm. Sheila emailed and really wants to unpack the drinking culture here in Wisconsin and is wondering, what is the role of alcohol, particularly on the person who's responsible for the sexual assault, the perpetrator? Sheila also wants to know, is sexual assault generally preplanned while sober, or is it happening more impulsively What can you tell us?

Yeah, 2 great questions, Sheila. Uh, so first of all, the question around the alcohol use. Alcohol in sexual assault cases can often be one of the weapons that's used. People— there are people out there who are intentionally feeding people alcohol or other drugs to get that person to a state, a mental state, where they are incapacitated, and they then think, here's my opportunity. And when you talk about sexual assault, Somebody cannot consent if they're incapacitated, right? So they're using that intentionally. Proactive education teaches everybody else in the room how to stop that scene. The mistake people made for decades was telling the person it was happening to, the crime was being committed upon, don't drink. Well, to tell somebody, hey, everybody in the world has freedom, but you don't have the freedom to have a drink because if you have a drink, it's your fault if something happens to you, is beyond ridiculous. And obviously victim blaming. So what we started to recognize was, hey, how do you empower everybody else in the room who sees what's going on, knows it's messed up, to stop the predator? And that's much more proactive. So that's that first part of that question. Uh, the second part of the question is, are these planned or are these impulsive? Both can be true depending on the situation. There are predatorial individuals out there who are planning this out. I'm going to go out tonight, I'm going to get someone drunk so I can do this to them. Those individuals exist. More often than not, it is not planned out. It— and campuses will tell you that most cases they deal with are not the planned-out predator situation. They are a student who was out partying, they met someone else who was partying, and they assumed they had consent.

Hmm.

Now, this is why EducationCATE is so important. Because they didn't understand how consent works. Consent is not simply, well, they didn't say no, so I must have had consent, which is what too often people think. You have to receive consent to do anything with someone, and they have to be able to give that consent. They have to be in a state of grace where they can give that consent. And so when you have these cases where somebody goes, well, it was impulsive, it was an assumption they made. And that's part of the problem around this topic, is assuming I can assume What this person wants me to do with their body, so I'm going to do it. And if they wanna stop me, they'll just stop me. But you've already done it. And this is why asking is so critical to this, because it gives you confirmation. And here's the wonderful part. Students will tell you they wanna do the right thing, and they believe every human being deserves to have a choice. Well, how do you normally give someone a choice? You ask a question and then you respect the answer. Hmm.

Mike Domitrz with us, founder of the Center for Respect, as we talk about sexual assault prevention on college campuses. And you can join in with your question, with your insights, 800-642-1234. Mike, at the beginning of the semester, a student at UW-Madison was physically and sexually assaulted. The student was hospitalized with life-threatening injuries, and the suspect has been charged. He's being held in custody on $1 million bond. Are survivors at Wisconsin colleges being adequately supported?

Well, that's gonna honestly range from campus to campus. Look, the schools I work with are very proactive about this, and they want to do everything they can to support survivors, and they're doing a great job. And one of those schools— I'll give you an example— one of those schools is UW-Stevens Point. I work with them every year. I speak to all their incoming students, and the Dean of Students that I work with there and their staff are very proactive and they want to create an atmosphere. And here's proof of it. When I'm giving my program, they make sure that we not only give the students the campus resources, we give the students the off-campus resources, the local crisis center, because healthy campuses understand, hey, a student might not come to us. We at least want them to know what the other resources are they can go to. That's a sign of a positive relationship for survivors. Because you're thinking, let's give them as wide of options as possible. If a school is going, well, if you have an issue, make sure you go to Title IX, and that's the only person they bring up, Title IX is doing really important vital work. But some Title IX offices on campuses, the moment you tell them, they report it. The student doesn't have confidential options. Other campuses, to be fair, Title IX will go, just so you know, if you report this to us, we have to file this. They give them an option before they move forward. So it really depends on the campus.

It really depends on the campus. Is there a particular one program? I mean, you talk about giving the resources of on-campus and off-campus, but are there particular programs, you know, that are very productive in changing people's, you know, boundaries and behaviors around consent and understanding, you know, sexual decision-making?

Well, I mean, This is what we do. So what you just asked, uh, typically the reason that schools say they bring us in is because of the fact that the effectiveness of our program in behavioral change, and that students walk out of there saying they, they literally are looking forward to engaging in these positive behaviors that make a massive impact. What we love is— I'll give you an example. We were at a campus 2 weeks ago, and somebody was there on the faculty. on the administration side. And they said, oh, I saw you, Mike, 18 years ago when I was a college student.

Hmm.

And the person nearby went, oh my gosh, did you, did you remember? She goes, oh, I've remembered it all 18 years. I knew as soon as our campus said the Candid Chemistry program, my brain immediately said, that's got to be the same program I had in college. It's about got to be the same guy. Because they remembered the 3 skills, right? They— she remembered all about asking, and she actually met her husband at that campus 18 years ago after learning the skills. So they were able to apply that within their relationship. This is evidence once again, when you give people skills based, based on their world, their environment, not based on statistics, not based on fear, people want these tools. They want to do the right thing.

I want to bounce this off you because there's this new scientific research on why sexual assault victims freeze or do not resist during a sexual assault. And I'm wondering what those new insights, that emerging research, is saying about, you know, about the work you do and about, you know, sexual assault survivors.

Well, what that does— and to be fair, it's making its way into the media now. It's been known for a long time, the neuroscience. Of what happens. And what you're referring to is people used to think that in moments of stress, you either fight or you flight. That's what people mistakenly thought. But the research has shown for a long, long time, that is not how the human brain is built. We're actually built to freeze, fight, or flight. And the first thing the brain is built to do is actually to either flight or freeze. Fight's the last thing they're meant to do. Here's why. When we were cave people and there were creatures way bigger than us, we knew that if we could not just run from the situation, you acted dead so they didn't eat you because they didn't want to eat live. They didn't want to eat dead animals. They were looking for live to prey on. And this is how the human brain has actually developed from way back then. And that part of our brain is way older than the newer part of the brain. That would actually learn to fight. So it's very common for the freeze to occur because it's naturally built into us. Now, why this is important for everybody out there to understand is the victim blaming that took place for centuries and decades was blaming victims for not fighting back when almost none of us are built to fight back.

Hmm.

If somebody fights back, it's usually because they've been trained to do that, not because it's natural. So what it does is helps freeze up this victim blaming that's been going on for so long and help us have more empathy and understanding of supporting survivors.

Mike, thank you for joining us.

Well, thank you for having me here. This is such an important conversation, Kate, so I appreciate you taking this on and really diving deeply into it.

Mike Domitrz is founder of the Center for Respect in Wisconsin. If you're a survivor of sexual assault, there You can also get support through the National Sexual Assault Hotline. That number is 800-656-HOPE to be connected with a sexual assault service provider in your area. I'm Kate Archer Kent. You're listening to The Morning Show on The Ideas Network.