497. Sharpen Your Mental Edge with Mike Zeller

The biggest kicker was psychedelic-assisted therapy because her neuro wiring basically needed a massive reset and we needed to flood her brain with neuroplasticity. And, according to psychedelic research, when you're on a lot of these substances, the psychedelics done safely and wisely in a safe container, it basically doubles your neuroplasticity from anywhere from 2 to 14 days, which allows us to repattern and reprogram basically a lot of these subconscious triggers.

Welcome to Marketing Speak, a series of interviews and monologues featuring thought leaders and industry practitioners in search engine optimization, e-commerce, and online marketing. Here's your host, Stephan Spencer, SEO expert, author, speaker, consultant, and internet entrepreneur. Brain fog, burnout, and low energy can silently kill your business success. My guest today knows this firsthand, and he's discovered powerful solutions that most entrepreneurs have never heard of. Mike Zeller has founded or partnered in more than 16 ventures across 5 industries, with his businesses collectively generating over $100 million in revenue. He's also a sought-after mentor who has guided hundreds of entrepreneurs, pro athletes, and entertainers worldwide. His latest book, The Genius Within: Finding Your Natural Pathway to Impact, Fulfillment, and Wealth, helps people tap into their highest potential. In our fascinating conversation, Mike shares cutting-edge methods he's discovered for optimizing both brain function and energy levels, from NAD supplementation to revolutionary trauma clearing techniques that are transforming how high achievers approach business. We dive deep into specific protocols for enhancing mental clarity and performance, including the exact supplements, breathing techniques, and morning routines that have worked for Mike and his clients. He also reveals surprising insights about how unprocessed trauma can block business success and unconventional but powerful methods to clear it. If you're ready to take your mental performance and business results to the next level, you won't want to miss these game-changing insights. So without any further ado, on with the show.

Mike, it's so great to have you on the show.

Stefan, pleasure. And I realize how freaking long my bio is. I should have given you a shorter one, but thanks for reading that long sucker.

So, uh, no worries, no worries. So Let's talk about what the heck happened in losing $1 million and how that ended up being a gift.

Yeah. What's our old mentor Tony Robbins say about pain? Pain is a— I think he calls it a gift from above or something along those lines. But I basically went through a season where I had like 5 or 6 things. You know, in entrepreneurship and business, you place a lot of bets and you expect some of them to work out. Well, I had a season where Nothing was working out. And then, my main cash cow business, my real estate business at the time disintegrated. I had a real estate investment that went really bad. I lost $250,000 on that. And that created just basically a perfect storm of implosion in a way that you don't really expect, but you get wiser from those implosions. So, I lost $1 million in about 12 to 18 months and had to reset everything ultimately. And then, Right after that, by the time I got my head above water reasonably so, my wife got pregnant and that began a 2.5-year depression battle and mental health battle. And she's a 3-time suicide survivor, so she got triggered, a lot of childhood trauma. And so then we're in a much deeper fight than losing a million bucks. That was a brutal season but learned a ton about trauma, mental health, and just how honestly fragile all of us are to some extent. So I have So much more empathy now.

Right. So what did you learn about trauma that you didn't already know that might be surprising for our listener?

Yeah, trauma. So I'm a master NLP practitioner and I've done a lot of deep mindset work and help rewire a lot of people on around their mindset. But one of the things that happens for someone that's truly severely trauma affected is those memories are almost stored in your body. That's why they call it PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder, where this thing happens and activates in a sensory way a non-conscious response. So, my wife, for example, our daughter would cry, which is normal for a baby, would cry. And, if she cried longer than 15 or 30 seconds, it would start triggering my wife's nervous system back to her traumatic childhood. And so, for 2.5 years, basically both in pregnancy. Pregnancy was also traumatic for her. She had a really rough pregnancy, but also all these traumas and fears of her sense of overwhelm. She was the oldest of 11 kids, very abusive upbringing, and all this pain that we thought she had cleared, but honestly, it came roaring back. And I had to realize, oh, this is not as simple as just a positive mindset. This is like a deep nervous system reset. Is needed. And yeah, we could have done SSRIs, but if you look at the research, they help people temporarily and they help people cope, but they don't help people heal. And we were very interested in healing and trying a lot of different approaches from neurofeedback, NAD IV, which both of those were very helpful for healing, somatic psychotherapy. But the biggest kicker was psychedelic-assisted therapy because her neuro wiring basically needed a massive reset and we needed to flood her brain with neuroplasticity. And, according to psychedelic research, when you're on a lot of these substances, the psychedelics done safely and wisely in a safe container, it basically doubles your neuroplasticity from anywhere from 2 to 14 days, which allows us to repattern and reprogram basically a lot of these subconscious triggers.

Tell us how this came about. How did you discover it?

Yeah.

How did it get implemented? Did you guys have to go out of the country to somewhere where psychedelics are considered legal or tell us more?

So, I'll mention she started somatic psychotherapy heavily influenced by Dr. Peter Levine's work, Healing Trauma, which is the first book I read on trauma. So, we started that in January 2022. Made a huge difference in knowing how to just manage and navigate, but then it just wasn't enough. She was still like aware and moving just such deep work. And then, we did neurofeedback that seemed to help her anxiety. Her anxiety dropped. NAD gave her the mental energy and their physical energy and vitality back. But then, in the fall of 2022, we realized, man, she just keeps getting triggered into a cascading spiral of depression when our daughter cries, which is pretty normal for a toddler as you well know. And so I started really realizing, oh, this is complex PTSD because I listened to like 100 podcasts on mental health and trauma and read a dozen books or so in a short time period. And then we found a therapist that's willing to off the books do a psychedelic assisted therapy session in the States. I won't say where, but that therapist was amazing and it was a 5-hour therapy session just as a framework. Tuesday, the day before we did the session, our daughter cried for like a couple minutes and my wife then went into a depression spiral for the next 4 hours, literally crying on the basement steps for 2 hours, coming up basically in a depression funk for another 2 hours and even a cloud the next day. Well, then the next day we do the session and it's 5 hours long. She comes back home the Thursday. So, one day after that session, our daughter has an 18-minute temper tantrum meltdown. Just ballistic, just insane. My wife is able to laugh. She has that cognitive dissociation. It doesn't trigger her nervous system. And I like to say it's not necessarily your fault, but it is your responsibility. And so your nervous system, her nervous system was programmed from her childhood. She couldn't control that, but we had, it was her responsibility and our responsibility to help her get it better, help it get reprogrammed. And since then, we've been able to start functioning normally again. There's still a little bit of PTSD we're clearing out. We're going to do another ketamine-assisted this round, which is legal in Tennessee. So we're going to do that ketamine-assisted therapy session. And I expect that we're— complex PTSD is incurable according to APA. I don't believe it based on my anecdotal evidence. Depression, she claims she's cured of depression. I would say so too. And the PTSD, we're pretty darn close to having that 100% taken care of too.

Wow. Amazing.

Yeah.

And what was the first psychedelic?

Psilocybin.

Psilocybin. Got it.

Which should be legalized, I mean, across the federal government in the states by end of next year is the expectation.

Yeah. So, when we're recording it now in late December, that would be end of 2024. Yeah.

Got it. Yeah, exactly.

Okay. And where did NAD fit into the picture and what is it for our listener who is not familiar with it?

Yeah. So, NAD, I'm not going to say the long scientific name, it's nicloanodidionucleide or something along those lines. I don't remember the— it's just a big long scientific name, but it's the core foundational molecule that's used in 500 cellular processes, but it also acts as a neurotransmitter. So basically, everything your body does uses NAD as its primary fuel source. And why this is so important for mental health, and peak performance. So, I'm always coming at the lens from peak performance and then recognizing that trauma can be a peak performance blocker. So, your brain is 3% of your body weight but uses 20 to 25% of your body's energy. So, if you are operating in a deficit, which if you are over the age of 30 in America, you are guaranteed almost based on 20,000 tests NAD test that we've done, very rarely is someone who is not supplementing with NAD-boosting supplement like NR, NMN, or our special blend that is arguably the most effective, your NAD levels are deficient. So therefore, your brain energy is going to be deficient because NAD is the primary fuel source. And it goes down as we age, like stem cells, like all the other things. That's why when we're 50, We typically don't have the vibrancy and the physical stamina that we had to run long distance, to jump high and far or whatever, and our muscle recovery is harder as we age. Well, if you boost it back up, I'm back at healthy levels of a 12-year-old. And last night, I played over an hour of full-court basketball, no pain, no inflammation, no real soreness. I could have played another hour or two. I've played as many as 3 hours of full-court basketball as a 44-year-old. That in my 30s, that would've been really freaking hard. I would've had to take a nap, taken some ibuprofen. Now I don't need any of that and I feel freaking great.

Yeah. By the way, I looked it up. Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide.

I was close. I was almost, almost got it.

Yeah, almost.

I literally take the product I'm a big evangelist for, but I don't always remember how to say the scientific name.

Yeah, yeah. Some people take NAD by IV.

Yeah.

And others will take some sort of supplement. How do you take it?

So I believe from the research, so the founder of the company that I'm CMO for, Dr. Jan Shea, he's one of the foremost experts in the world at NAD. He's also a scientific researcher, like he found the type 1 diabetes gene, so he's been studying human diseases for 40 years and longevity. But in his research, along with other research out there, NAD IV does not increase intracellular NAD, meaning the inside of your cell nuclei. NAD IV, the molecule is just too big, NAD, for it to get into the inside of your cell. But it does increase your cellular plasma. So, that's why many people battling anxiety, fatigue, depression, addiction, it's very, very helpful for almost resetting your neurotransmitters. And doing it in a really quick fashion because you will notice the effects afterwards. And we initially only did NAD IV, but then as I learned more about how important it is to do the intracellular, so I take a little white powder from Genfinity. It's called Vitality Boost. I take it twice a day. And now, my levels have tripled from— basically tripled from where they started. And I don't need the IV anymore. I have the same effect without the IV for about one-fifth of the cost of what I was doing every month. And it's arguably more important for the intracellular for your aging, to slow aging. If you look at the 13 hallmarks of aging and everything from metabolic dysfunction, telomere shortening, a lot of other things are glycation directly related to NAD deficiency.

And did you discover GINFINITY and start taking their supplement and then you became their CMO, or you took some other NAD supplement and then you ended up being their CMO and then you started theirs. How did that work?

Yeah, good question. So, I took 3 different products as a supplement before finding out about GenFini. I was taking a brand called TruNigen, which did really well too. They're the most well-known probably where they open up the marketplace. It's a good product. Then, I took Novus Labs, which is another good product, well-marketed, well-branded, and they have a pure NMN that's quite good. And then, I took also just a pure NAD supplement, which is totally worthless. I didn't know it at the time, but it doesn't really work because the molecule is too big to pass the gut barrier or the cell barrier. And then, I had an IV clinic and we were focused on doing an NAD IV. And then, a friend of mine told me about Genfinity's, how you could test before and after. And I was like, "Oh, that's really cool." And they had the only NAD test on the market. And then, I quickly called the company to learn more about it and ended up talking to the founder. And, he told me about their supplement, so I ordered a bunch of them and I loved it and our clients loved it. And, when I ended up shutting this, the IV company down about 6 months later, I reached out. He's a scientist and I was like, "Hey, you can use a little help with your marketing," and jumped right in. And, he said, "Yes, we need some help." And so, I jumped in and we've grown tremendously since. And, it's truly a great product. I bought $10,000 worth of it for my IV clinic before becoming marketing director in CMO. So, I was already an evangelist for it beforehand because of how great it made people feel.

That's cool. That reminds me of that old Remington commercial. Remember that guy?

Yeah, yeah.

I love the product so much I bought the company.

Exactly. Social proof.

Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. So, what would be a typical kind of investment in the Jinfinity supplements? Because our typical listener is not going to want to spend $10,000.

Of course.

Not that they need to. You bought that for your clinic, but TruNigen is not inexpensive as far as supplements go. I'm curious what the investment is for Jinfinity.

Yeah. A monthly supply, if you do the monthly subscription, is $118. So, it's pretty equivalent to the other big brands out there, Elysium, TruNigen, Novus Labs, DoNotAge, et cetera. The main difference though that you'll see is most of the brands, TruNigen being one as well and a lot of the others, and we've tested 20,000 people. So, we've tested people on all the other brands and their supplements. They'll even claim themselves, I think Elysium says on their website they improve NAD levels by 40%. Well, that's great. And so, their products work, but what we typically see with our products is people improve their NAD levels anywhere from 200% to 400%. I can think of 3, 4 cases right now of people I personally work with and/or I'm friends with that have taken the product and the test and we've seen their levels zoom up. And, I've personally felt it where my energy, I noticed a marginal improvement with some of the other products, but I noticed a massive improvement with ours and the energy, the stamina, the mental clarity, metabolic function where I've burned belly fat that I was carrying. You know, just got older and my metabolism wasn't as great it felt like. Now, my metabolism is like I'm a teenager again and it feels freaking great.

So, the kind of tests that show NAD levels intracellularly, how many are there? Is it just yours? Like, if I were to go to a typical holistic doctor or I don't know, concierge medicine type establishment, would they be testing intracellular NAD?

So, currently, we're the only test on the market for NAD. So, only test in the world that we know of. Probably won't be that way forever. I would imagine that in the next year or two, there's going to be a few other tests rolling out. But Dr. Shea is a brilliant medical researcher and had developed advanced tests and biomarker tests for massive companies before creating Genfinity. So, we've got some intellectual capital in the sense of innovation that very few companies have. We also test for cellular senescence, oxidative stress, both of which are key hallmarks of aging and no one else tests for in the world currently. And we test, frankly, some of the biggest names in both sports and health and wellness. I can't fully say all their names. Offline, I can tell you, but—

Well, there's somebody who's going to be dropping a promotion or not a promotional video, but they're going to be talking about Gymfinity on their YouTube channel today. So, by the time this airs, that'll be old news, but are you allowed to tell who that person is?

He's a big men's health and wellness influencer and fashion. He's also in fashion. So, his name's Jose Zuniga, Teaching Men's Fashion is his YouTube channel. But, I think he's 37. We moved his NAD levels up on his intracellular from 32.1 to 83.9. It was a 259% increase in 28 days and he feels it. He's like, "Wow, I feel like I'm 16 again." And that's what we typically see is people are blown away with the results. Usually in 2 to 4 weeks is what we see the difference.

We'll include a video in the show notes for this episode. That's amazing. That'd be great.

Thank you.

Yeah, cool. So, what else is part of your biohacking stack for longevity and performance and being in the flow state and all that sort of stuff?

Yeah. Another big one, surprisingly creatine because creatine, a little-known fact about creatine is it acts as a battery pack for energy, especially mental energy. So, when you boost up with creatine like in our Genfinity blend, one of the extra ingredients that we have that's not just NMN but it's creatine, D-ribose, and niacinamide. Basically, that causes— what's different about that versus NR or NMN is it causes the repair cycle of your NAD, the salvage pathway, to be boosted back up. And so, that's why our levels are dramatically better than other companies is because we also hit the salvage pathway versus pure NR or pure NMN just doesn't do that. But creatine is massive value add. I also started taking another product called Fatty 15, which is a new—

I take that too.

Yeah, it's great. Good marketing, right? I met the co-founder at this big A4M conference. I think that's a phenomenal product. MitoQ is another cool one for mitochondria. NAD, when you boost your NAD because NAD is primary fuel source for mitochondria, I may not really need the MitoQ, but anything that optimizes mitochondria I want to take as well.

Have you heard of MitoPure?

Yep. MitoPure is terrific too. So, yeah. Do you take that one?

No. At the same conference I met the founder or co-founder of Fatty15, which was the biohacking conference, Dave Asprey's biohacking conference this past June, which would've been 2023 by the time this episode airs. The Mitopure folks were speaking too, and I was really impressed with their stuff. But yeah, I ended up getting a subscription to Fatty15. I forget what else I signed up for. But you could spend thousands of dollars just go to one of those biohacking conferences and it's like going to the grocery store hungry. Don't do it.

Yeah, it's true. It's so tempting and you're like, wow, this is so good and you want to come home with a polar plunge and you want to come home with an ozone spa and all the things. Exactly.

All the things.

Yeah.

But, uh, so what does MitoQ do?

MitoQ, it's another similar to like Mitopure, boosts up your mitochondrial function. And a little known fact about mitochondria though, the only thing that causes your mitochondria to duplicate is exercise. So it's hard for your mitochondria to be fully functioning in a healthy state without exercise too. So that's something to bear in mind. And that's from Dr. Robert Lustig's book Metabolical, which is phenomenal. One of the top 3 health books I've read. And then, I take 1,000 milligrams EPA fatty acids, which is phenomenal for brain health and mental health. According to Huberman, that is the equivalent of an SSRI for about 60% of the population from the research he's seen. And then, Perfect Aminos because most of us don't have sufficient levels of amino acids. And so, that's perfect. It's from BodyHealth, really good blend, and a few other things, but those are the main things that take on a pretty significant daily basis. Cool.

And, you mentioned NMN. That stands for what? Actually, I'll tell you since—

Yes, you might have it pulled up. Yeah.

Nicotinamide mononucleotide. Yeah.

Yes. As a little kid, I'll just tell you this, I had to take speech classes when I was 7, 8 years old and those really big scientific words even in high school and college, I knew what they were, I just had trouble saying them. It was like almost my brain would get like a little spun sideways. So I just have trouble remembering the giant scientific or the bigger scientific words.

Yeah, yeah, it's like performance anxiety, right? Yeah, yeah, presentation or something, and I'm getting all nervous like anytime a big scientific word comes.

Yeah, yeah, totally.

So what's the difference between NAD and NMN and why both?

Well, if you look at the precursor cycle, so NR, actually, let's go all the way back to vitamin B3. Vitamin B3 in the cycle becomes, in many cases, NR. It doesn't always become NR, but then NR will become NMN, and NMN will become NAD once it's inside the cell nuclei. So, if you take, the further back you go, the less likely it is to convert all the way to NAD. If I take NAD as a molecule orally, it won't pass the cell membrane. Your body actually has to break it down for it to get— so it almost has to take it apart before it goes into your cell nuclei. So, that's why taking the NAD orally is a waste, but then Inman NR are usually pretty good products. Now, what we do differently is because the unique blend and the unique percentage or ratio of the blend what we found in the research causes the repair cycle, which basically boosts up your NAD levels, intracellular NAD levels, much higher than the average product. So, like, what I would say for you is if you tried TruNigen, then compare 2 weeks on Genfinity, the Vitality Boost, and you'll likely notice a night and day difference in terms of your energy and your mental clarity and your stamina. And then you'll be like, "Okay, this is really working." Alright, I'll give that a go. Yeah, yeah.

I'm a willing biohacker. I like to experiment. Okay. So, as you already know from a few minutes ago, I do take TruNigen daily. I take Fatty 15 daily. I actually take double the suggested amount of Fatty 15. I just got an intuitive sense to do that. Can't say I had any medical guidance to do that, but I also take Hypertest and Myodex, which are from Axis Labs. I've been taking that for well over a decade. It really boosts testosterone levels. And the founder of Axis Lab, Chris Gatchis, and he actually was a guest, one of my very early guests on this podcast.

Amazing.

2016 or 2015 even. And yeah, that's been a game changer because I have really high testosterone levels for my age and have had pretty much the last decade. What else do I take? I take Epicor. That's a secret weapon right there. When my wife and son are sick, I don't get sick, knock on wood usually. So, they don't take Epicor although I really want them to, but it's a really great prebiotic that helps boost your immune system. Epicor, E-P-I-C-O-R. Great.

Got to get that then.

Yeah. What else? Magnesium Breakthrough.

Yeah, I take that shit.

It has 7 types of magnesium in it. I take spermidine.

Oh, I take spermidine too.

Yeah, that's great.

Yeah. I love that one as well.

If I had them all, you got me on the spot.

I got you on the spot.

I don't have my whole stack here in front of me. I probably take about 15 or 18 different supplements a day, but I don't talk about it that much, so it doesn't roll off the tongue, but I used to take more than double that. And through just my intuition and, and muscle testing that I figured that I'm overdoing it and I don't need a lot of that stuff. So I dropped a lot of that. Oh, I take Beam Minerals has really great Mineral, a combo of two different things. There's Micro Boost and the Electrolyze. Every day I take ASEA Labs. Are you familiar with ASEA? ASEA, A-S-E-A. It's a liquid that tastes kind of like, I don't know, soapy water. It's not exactly delicious, but it helps with Redox Cell Signaling, and I know people have had huge breakthroughs from taking that. So yeah, those are just some examples of things I take. Love it.

I'm adding a couple of those to my Amazon cart right now, so that sounds great. Yeah, yeah. Trust your judgment. You're a savvy guy at this for sure.

Oh, okay. Thank you. Let me see if there's anything else that pops for me that would be good for you. Another prebiotic I take from Hyperbiotics. That's like a green label powder I put in my smoothie. I think it's just called prebiotic.

Yeah.

So I'll take that.

So prebiotics are really good. They're underutilized by most people. Most people focus too much on probiotics when it's really prebiotics that we need more of, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Anyway, so cool. Thanks for sharing and for getting me to, uh, putting me on the spot to share too. Looking back on all this, what would be the thing that just pops for you as the biggest gift or lesson or epiphany from this whole journey of dealing with increasing your performance, your longevity and all that, and helping your wife with her mental health and her neuroplasticity and all that? What's something that just pops for you that you want to share?

First thing is that we all battle some level of some trauma that can be stuck in us. And, to the level it's stuck in us, it's literally like a bag of bricks that you're carrying around. And, the metaphor I've used a lot too is if you're carrying around a lot of these bags of bricks, you feel weighed down and you don't even know what it means to feel lighter energetically. My wife and I, we both feel so much lighter that we've done some of this trauma clearing and deep work. And, I got some PTSD from just the adhole scenario.

That we battled.

And it's hard to see the clarity of thought and the clarity of potential and the joy you can have when you've been carrying some stuff that you're just also comfortable with. Many of us go through life, their whole lives just comfortable with this negative weight. Sometimes see it in people's lives where it's almost like a cloud has been hanging over them energetically or vibrationally. But they're supposed to be filled with light, right? And I see it at my retreats, my Rewired retreats where we do certain plant medicines and we do some NLP and some breathwork and meditation. And people will literally enter the weekend feeling heavy and looking heavy. And then, after the first night, it's like they got a sparkle in their eye. And by day 2 and day 3, it's like their whole face is shining. They're full of this vibrancy and this joy that they've maybe never even accessed before. And so, when I look at some of these, let's call them consciousness-expanding supplements or plant medicines, the ability when they're safely used and guided and respected as the powerful tool that they are, they're neutral. When they're used as a beautiful powerful tool, they literally help your brain tap into ranges and your nervous system ranges of possibility, especially on the higher level of joy and just shedding scarcity, shedding trauma, shedding wounds and stories and limiting beliefs, they help you tap into this higher state of self that you've maybe always known was there for you, but you had no idea how to get there. And for me personally, as a guy, I was emotionally cut off. I didn't know how to connect with my heart on an intimate level. And now it's like, I might not have a superhighway yet, like my wife has, but I have at least a two-lane road now. And there's an exit ramp for me to get there. Versus before, I would, it was like I was driving by Disney World and I'm like, how is everybody's having fun over there? How do I get over there? But there's no exit ramp for me. And it was, my wife was complaining for years. You're emotionally shut off. Connect with you emotionally. Now she can, and now it's a really beautiful season that we didn't go through that season and have to explore some of these— let's call them consciousness-expanding supplements. I would have never accessed higher parts of myself.

Wow. Have you tried iboga?

I have not tried that yet. Uh, I hear it's pretty great though. I've tried— basically done psilocybin, MDMA, sassafras, a little— and kanna is another one, which is you can buy as a supplement and it's a mood-elevating substance as well. And then 5-MeO, I've done that. And then I haven't done a full ayahuasca journey yet. We've had ayahuasca in some of the blends that I've taken, but that's next year I'm going to do some ayahuasca.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. Head down and purge whatever's there.

What about bufo? You know anything about that?

No, I haven't.

Have you?

Well, actually, no, in the 5-MeO we did bufo too. Yeah.

So, oh, you did do bufo.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't love it. That was probably one of my least favorite ones. It's not bad, but I'm not yearning to do it again. So, okay.

Yeah. So in answer to your question, I have done nothing.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

I've done prayer. I've had, I've had a lot of prayer experiences.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, if it doesn't call you, then if you don't feel drawn to it, no big deal, right? We were in a desperate situation and this had the most promise, and sure enough, it delivered the results that we had hoped for and then some.

Do you do ice baths and infrared saunas and all that other biohacking stuff?

Yeah, couple, 2 or 3 times a month I'll do a cold plunge. We have a membership, we do a hormone clinic as well. Our hormones were both out of whack after that season. So I do cryotherapy, cold plunge, sauna, or infrared as well. And we have infrared devices at home and then like a face mask and another tool. I'm not religious of doing it every day or 3 times a week like some people. I'll do it a couple times a month, 2 to 4 times a month typically. Yeah. Cold showers though every day since Tony Robbins' days. So, I'm 8 years into that.

Well, that counts. That's pretty awesome.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Got to get comfortable being uncomfortable. It's not just for the health, it's for your mindset, for your willingness to try things that are not easy.

Yeah, yeah, totally. Exactly.

How about nootropics? Anything?

Yeah. Oh yeah, I love nootropics. So we use Genius brand, that's been amazing. You get on Amazon, but it has a lot of powerful focusing supplements on that. So that's been terrific. And I've tried a few other nootropics, a lot of them are great. So yeah, anytime— I wrote my book as well on basically 30 days of nootropics and matcha tea every morning. At about 4:30 or 5:00 AM. So, help me lock in and get focused.

That's cool. That's awesome. Yeah. We'll have to talk about kind of morning rituals that help you get into a flow state and a place of being able to do downloads and stuff. But, a couple of nootropic type— I buy stuff from Nootropics Depot. I'll buy powders that are mushroom powders like chaga and red reishi and turkey tail, not actual turkey tail, it's a turkey tail mushroom. I'm vegetarian. But yeah, those are just a few examples. Anyway, so tell us more about your morning ritual and how you get into flow.

Yeah. So, in the morning, especially when I'm in a book project or a highly creative project, I like to go to bed earlier. So, I get up earlier before, for me, when the ladies in my household, my daughter and my wife are up. You don't get much done until you get out the door everywhere. So, it becomes a very distracting world. So, if I can get up at 5:00 a.m., couple hours before they get up, then I'll usually have about 90 minutes of good flow state. What I'll do to activate it, and so you think of how do I prime your body. And, the psychology of flow, you're 500% more productive in flow state. And, this is where you activate also all 6 neurochemical cocktail releases: norepinephrine, serotonin, oxytocin, dopamine, a few others. I can't remember all 6 of them right off the cuff, but it triggers all 6 of those. So, it basically elevates your state of happiness and your state of connection. Now, to activate flow, you also have to be 10% beyond your comfort zone. So, it has to be challenging just enough, not too challenging where it creates a paralysis, a state of paralysis, but also not too easy where you're just bored. And so, that's why heliskiers and big wave surfers, They're not going from a 20-foot wave to 100-foot wave. They're going from a 20-foot wave to a 30-foot wave.

So, you're not suggesting heliskiing for your first-time skiing, in other words.

No. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But, you need enough of a challenge that you're confident enough that you can do it, but you also have to pay attention or you'll mess it up. But, I'll start that day off with some breathwork and a little bit of meditation, some movement, water, my Vitality Boost for NAD optimization because that kind of stimulates your NAD production right away in the morning. And, if I'm getting up early to focus, then I'm also probably going to do some nootropics. And, I'll jump right in and start on the most valuable project of the day. For me, it might be writing or a marketing project or other business project. And, you have to look at also your peak emotional energy. You have 3 to 4 hours a day So, if I utilize those 3 to 4 hours of peak emotional energy on my most valuable activities, then I'm going to get the biggest lever. And so, that's where we want to be with that. So, yeah, that's how I usually start my day and then get my daughter up at about 7:15, 7:30, and she gets a smoothie every day with pumpkin seeds and granola and superfoods and make my wife mushroom coffee. So she's got all the Turkey Tail and all that stuff.

So, all right. Do you get that brand?

I use Rise currently. That's the coffee one that we get. And then Yujito for my matcha. Yeah.

There's another brand that's pretty popular. I know that Luke Storey would get his podcast sponsored by that brand. Gosh, what's it called? It's not Mudwater.

Oh yeah, I know Mudwater too. Yeah. I know there's a few different ones. I can't remember. Right offhand too.

Four Sigmatic, that's what it is.

Four Sigmatic. Yeah, yeah, they're great. Yeah, good product too. Yeah, yeah. What about you?

What's that? What do I do to get into flow? I pray. I ask God to put me in a flow state. I know that there's like 26 different flow triggers or whatever, you know, according to Stephen Kotler and, and, and all that, and I realized that I can just pray for it. One time I was doing the 20-some days of tracking my blood glucose levels.

Yeah.

And my— so had, had the device on, on my back of my arm, right? The continuous glucose monitor. And it was late, I was tired, and my blood sugar level had crashed. It was well into the red. So I was like, ugh, I really don't want to have to get up and eat something or drink something. Please God, just correct it for me. And then I fell back asleep and guess what happened when I checked my monitor in the morning? Yep, sure enough, it was up into the black.

Oh wow. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's not just mind over matter. It's like, miracles are what you're meant to experience. So if you just believe in, have faith in God and how this reality is driven by him and or her, you know, however you want to refer to your higher power. But the idea of, of, you know, just allowing God to override, you know, it's like a a system override.

Yeah, exactly.

Physics is subservient to the Creator, obviously. So I— it might not make sense for a die-hard atheist to operate in this way, but it works. Can't deny the results. Like, I looked at the graph in the morning on my tracking, and it was— it jumped right back up into the black. It's like I didn't do anything, just prayed.

Yeah.

Didn't even have a glass of water. Not that that would do anything either because there was no sugar in that, but that was a pivot point for me. Like, okay, I'm underutilizing the power of prayer.

There you go.

I know we're out of time here. This has been a great exploration of incredible highs and lows in your journey. Thank you for sharing all this. If you wanted to share one last nugget of wisdom before we go, something that we haven't talked about, what would it be?

I think in leadership and entrepreneurship, recognizing that we have, all of us have likely little t or big T trauma, but it's the heights of our potential are dimmed if we're carrying it with us. So doing that deep work to work on yourselves and clearing that out, whether it's through prayer, meditation, psychedelics, somatic therapy, CBT therapy, Meditation retreats, whatever it may be, whatever breathwork, whatever may works for you, but do the work to study it, to learn it, to create awareness. The bestselling Harvard Business Review article is Peter Drucker's Managing Oneself. It's a classic, but at the end of the day, you look at people at the pinnacle of their potential, LeBron James in the sports world or Tom Brady or in the business world, Even, I don't know if we want to say Elon right now, but Steve Jobs back in the day, man, they knew how to manage themselves to get the best from themselves. And something that we are becoming more aware of in today's day and age is mental health and trauma. And it's okay to talk about it and it's okay to work on releasing it so that you can be at your highest and best self. It feels great as you do so.

Yeah. Yeah. For somebody who's unfamiliar with breathwork and the power of it, you can release a lot of DMT just through doing intentional breathwork exercises. I have a whole episode talking about this with Curtis Thomas, but do you have a particular modality of breathwork that you recommend?

Yeah, I like Dr. Andrew Weil's 4-4-4 method. It's just 4 breaths in or 4 seconds for basically a 4-second box of breathe in, hold it, released for— yeah, box breathing. But also, there's the yoganic fast breath, dragon breath as they call it. That's really cool. There's some other— Wim Hof obviously has some great— I've done a bunch of them and I found different purposes and experiences with all of them and they all have their different effect. And, a longer breathwork session whether it's 50 minutes can give you almost a psychedelic and as euphoric experience as well.

I've had those kind of experiences from breathwork. Yeah.

Yeah, no doubt. It's pretty crazy.

Yeah, amazing, amazing. Alright. Well, thank you, Mike. This was awesome. If our listener is intrigued to work with you with your Rewired retreats, to read your book, to purchase the test kit from Jinfinity, take the supplements from there, any of that stuff, where do we send them to?

Yeah. So, the first thing for Rewired and just going through a process to guide yourself to rewire your subconscious, we've got neurorewiring.com. And, I give 14 steps or 14 keys or tools to use to rewire in your subconscious. So, that's a really powerful asset plus you get a really powerful email sequence with some of the best videos, trainings, and opportunities around that. Then, JINFINITY is just J-I-N-F-I-N-I-T-Y. Iti.com and just use the code WELCOME20 and that'll give you 20% off your first order. And then mikezeller.com and then geniuswithinbook.com as well for grab a free copy of my book, just cover basically the shipping and handling of the book.

Thank you, Mike.

Thanks for having me on. Always great connecting, Stefan. It is.

It is. You're a force for good in the world. Thank you for being you.

Likewise. You too, my friend.

All right, and thank you, listener. You too are also a force for good in the world. We'll catch you in the next episode. I'm your host, Stefan Spencer, signing off.

If you want to hear more conversations like this about high-performance strategies that work, then I recommend episode 422 with Ross Hamilton, episode 456 with Craig Filek, and episode 477 with Ryan Crownholm. Also, I invite you to check out the show notes, transcript, action-based checklist, and all the URLs mentioned in this interview with Mike Zeller at marketingspeak.com/497. And if you enjoyed this conversation, please share the episode and more importantly, the entire show, Marketing Speak, with a friend. It'll really help this podcast grow in reach and impact. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Marketing Speak podcast. This is your host, Stephan Spencer. I'm the founder of the SEO agency Net Concepts, co-author of The Art of SEO, and author of Google Power Search. In addition to this podcast, I I also host Get Yourself Optimized, which is about upleveling your life, relationships, peer group, career, business, and spirituality. If you want more traffic and you want to work with me and my team, visit www.NetConcepts.com. The site also contains a wealth of resources that include online courses, screencasts, webinars, white papers, articles, and more. To reach me directly, email stephan@stephanspencer.com or visit my personal website www.stephanspencer.com. Until next time.