The State of Your Nervous System Creates Your Thoughts

Hi, I'm Sara, and welcome to You Make Sense. I'm a somatic experiencing practitioner and expert on trauma resolution, attachment, parts work, and nervous system regulation. This podcast is a manual to understanding your human experience so that you can navigate the world with freedom, ease, empowerment, and create the life that you desire. Remember, you make sense. All parts, always. So in the mental health space, there's so much focus on our thinking or the cognitive story attached to the experience that we're having. And in this episode, we're going to talk about why we're actually having the thoughts that we're having. Like, what is the underlying reason for it? And how do we then from that place actually change the negative thoughts we're having and experience more of the positive thinking and the positive stories within our minds that we're wanting? So of course, like every other episode, we're going to use science to back up everything that we're talking about. Now, polyvagal theory and neuroscience shows us that our autonomic state creates our story. Essentially what that means is within our autonomic nervous system, we have 6 primary states. And think of a state as an embodied experience. Now, what we know is that our state actually not only creates our thoughts, but it creates our whole— the whole totality of our experience itself, meaning it creates our feelings, the sensations we have, the behaviors we have, our thoughts, our perception of self, others, and the world around us. So it's literally creating everything. And as I named, a part of that is our thinking. Now, when we're experiencing dysregulation, which is simply active self-protection, and if the word dysregulation is new to you, I want you to think about experiences that you might classify as not being good or not being enjoyable. So things like anxiety, depression, hopelessness, apathy, feeling in a funk, so on and so forth. Those are experiences of dysregulation. Now, I just named feelings, right? Those feelings are a symptom of the dysregulation. And that means that when we're in dysregulation, the thoughts we are having are also a symptom of that dysregulation. Now, the job of our thoughts when we're dysregulated is actually to keep us in dysregulation or even further or deepen the dysregulation we are experiencing. Now, that might sound strange, right? Why would our system want to do that? Why would we want to deepen the uncomfortable feeling that we're having or the suffering that we're experiencing? Well, if we're in dysregulation, our nervous system has decided that we're not safe, and that's either because we are actually not in safety or it's perceiving danger. And that means that it's projecting something that was dangerous in the past onto the present. So I might be in safety in the here and now, but my nervous system is being reminded of things in the past that weren't safe. So I'm finding myself disregulated. And if I was in an unsafe experience, it would be really smart for my nervous system to keep me protected, right? So the job of our thoughts are to come in and ensure that we stay in that state of dysregulation. And the more we listen to our thoughts, the more dysregulated we become. So I wanna give examples of the different thoughts that we have based on the autonomic state that we are in, so that you can see how wildly different they are based on what's happening in our nervous system. So if If we find ourselves in our sympathetic nervous system, this is often referred to as fight or flight, where things like anxiety, worry, frustration, fear, terror, rage live. We have all this overwhelm of energy in our bodies. All of our thoughts are gonna be about things like how I have to do it now. If I don't do it now, things aren't gonna be okay. There's not enough time. Um, they're probably mad at me. Maybe I did something wrong. I'm so frustrated with them. They never get anything right. This isn't gonna work out. If I don't have control over things, things are gonna fall apart. I'll be able to relax when I have this amount of money in my bank account. There's so much to do. And as you can see, there's an— all the flavoring of that, those thoughts are, I have to control what's happening outside of me and I have to do it now. As you can see, there's kind of a theme there. Now, if we look at the thoughts when we're in our dorsal vagal complex, that's our state of shutdown where apathy, hopelessness, feeling in a funk is, we have low energy, we feel numb, depression lives here, and dissociation. All of the thoughts are going to be about how we can't or we're lacking agency. So when we're here, the thoughts will have flavorings like, it's not possible for me, it's too late for me, I'll never find a partner at my age, I'm not going to be able to have a family of my own, I'm not smart enough to do this thing, I don't belong anywhere in the world, I'm different. This is where shame lives. So there's something wrong with me, or I'm inherently bad, it's not going to work out no matter how hard I try, this relationship is I'm doomed. Can you hear in that there's a lot of an I can't or lacking of agency? And all of the thoughts are going to have that kind of flavoring. Now, when we're in our blended state of what's called freeze, which is equal parts that sympathetic system, so lots of energy met with the shutdown of dorsal, like I named, it's two equal and opposite forces. Think of it kind of like a deer in headlights. So I feel this urgency, like I have to, but I can't. So the thoughts are gonna have flavorings of things like, I really need to text that person back. I'll do it later. Or, oh, I, I really need to call my financial advisor to see what's going on. No, that's too overwhelming. I can't do it. I'll do it another time. But I need to do it now, but I can't do it now. Or, I wonder if this person's mad at me. They haven't responded back. I should really text them. No, I shouldn't text them because I don't want to irritate them more. But I need to do it, but I can't do it. Or, I really want to lean into this relationship, but I can't lean into this relationship because if I lean into it and I lose time, it's going to be too late for me. So maybe I should leave, but maybe I should stay, but maybe I should leave and maybe I should stay. So I'm never actually stepping in the relationship or out of it. And as you can see here, the thoughts are going to be contradicting. I have to, but I can't. And that's really the flavoring of freeze. Now, when we're in regulation in our ventral vagal complex, the thoughts are all going to be about how I can. So things like, I am capable and able, even if this is challenging, I know things are going to be okay. I have inherent value in the world. I have curiosity here. So instead of blaming someone else, I'm curious about what's going on. Going on in their experience, just as I am curious about mine. I know that things won't always be challenging, that they change and evolve. I know that I have inherent worth in the world, and so on and so forth. So as you can see, the story from regulation is wildly different than the story from dysregulation. And as I named, if you listen to the thoughts while you're in any of the states, including the state of regulation, it will always amplify the state you are in. And for so many of us, we don't even realize the thoughts that we're having, number one. So we're just listening to them as if they're truth. We say these things to ourselves all the time. We're constantly saying things to ourselves in our minds and without realizing it, and we're listening to them as if they're truth. Like, tell me more, tell me more. And every single time you do that, it is amplifying whatever is going on in your nervous system. So it's so vital that we not only understand what's actually occurring, but then we have the tools necessary to actually shift this so we aren't perpetually exacerbating the dysregulation that we are in. So in a moment, I'm gonna talk about some of the things that we can do, but I just wanna give you a real-life example of what it looks like to have wildly different stories dependent on the state we are in. And so I'm gonna give you an example f— from a client I worked with many, many years ago. I'm gonna change the— I'm gonna use someone's name here again, but I'm gonna change the name, uh, of, of that person. So this client that I had had been married for probably about 40 years or so, so quite a long time. And we were navigating with her the different stories that she had about her husband based on the autonomic state that she was in. So when she found herself in her dorsal vagal complex, remember, that's the state of shutdown, I can't. When she was in a rupture or disconnection with her husband, here was the type or flavoring of story that she was having. Obviously, I'm not getting this exactly verbatim, but this is the idea. So the thoughts were about how she married the wrong person and it was too late for her. No one is going to want her at her age. It's not going to be possible to have a relationship that she desires. Her husband is never going to be the person that she would— she needs, or he will never be able to meet her needs. And as you can hear from some of those things that I'm saying, like, wow, there's a lot of hope hopelessness in that. I mean, you know, the first thing I said about I married the wrong person and it's too late for me, like, could make me— it's not even my story or my experience, and it could make me want to curl under the covers. And so my point is, if she was to listen to that, it would just exacerbate that hopelessness or that lack of agency and the overall shutdown in her nervous system, and she would be believing that as if it was true. So if she was in an argument with her husband while in her sympathetic nervous system, remember this is where anxiety, worry, frustration, fear, terror, rage all live, the story was wildly different. And I'm about to swear in a moment because this is something that she realized she was saying to herself, just in case you have kids in the room. It was wildly different than dorsal. And this, by the way, is a person that didn't swear in her daily life. Of course, there's nothing wrong with swearing, but that's not something that she did regularly. And she didn't even realize recognize the story or the thoughts that were happening when she was dysregulated. Like most of us, we don't even have awareness around the thoughts that are actually happening. So she, we, I'll never forget this session we were working together and she was, she realized a thought and she looked at me almost like just, and she couldn't believe it. And she said, you know what I say when we're in an argument from sympathetic? I say, fuck Frank, fuck that guy. He never does anything that I ask him to do. He's so selfish. I raised the kids. I did everything. I take care of the grandkids. I do everything and I fucking hate him and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it was so, you know, in many ways it was so beautiful to watch her awareness coming of what was actually happening when she was in dysregulation. And I remember her saying like, Sarah, I don't even like swear. I cannot believe that this is what's happening. No wonder when I'm dysregulated from this place and then I go off and I'm like, you know, folding laundry or doing whatever I'm doing, I get more mad. And I never understood why I was getting more and more ramped up by myself. Well, that's because she was listening to this story. And then something that started maybe as a small rupture between the two of them devolved into this major, you know, two-day fight because both parties were listening to the thoughts without realizing it. And that increases the activation for all of us. Now, when she was in her state of freeze, remember that's I have to, but I can't, I have to, but I can't. So two equal and opposite forces. Her thoughts would be contradicting. So she'd get into an argument with him and then the thoughts would be, I need to leave this relationship, but I won't be able to take care of myself if I do. And I have to get out of here, but nobody's ever gonna want me and I'll be alone by myself forever. So maybe I can't leave, but I need to leave, but I can't leave, but I need to leave, but I can't leave. And that equal and opposite forces is a really exhaustive battle. I also just wanna name those opposing thoughts. They are also a way protective parts of us keep us from ever actually stepping into something. It's a really tricky and really smart, intelligent way that those protectors that are terrified of us being vulnerable or terrified of us being abandoned or not being loved as we are try to keep us from ever fully, fully stepping in. And the truth is, if we never step in, nothing can ever work, right? So many of us find ourselves in that cycling, and that's something that I did for a very long time too. So it's important to work with those parts of ourselves if we find that showing up and to remind them of, even if I step in, I always have the agency and ability to step out if this doesn't end up serving me. And there's lots of episodes on Parts Work you can listen to around that. So from a place of regulation, her thoughts were wildly different and it was so beautiful to watch her come into her awareness about what her truth was. And I remember watching her come into that awareness and she said, here's what's true. It's not easy to go through life with Frank, but I am so happy that he is my partner. We have had a lot of challenges and our childhood stuff has come up a lot, but we've continued to navigate it together and there isn't anybody else that I'd rather do that with. And I actually wouldn't change a thing. And life has been hard and messy and there are things about him that get on my nerves and But in many ways from regulation, I can see that he loves me in the ways that he can. And he has continued to step into doing his very best to meet my needs and love me to the best of his ability. And I'm so grateful for him. I'm so grateful for the life we have together. So if you look at that, her story was so drastically different based on the state she was in. And I want to name, as you can hear from her story in ventral, it's not It's not just always, you know, this fairytale story of everything's wonderful. Life isn't that way, right? So she was naming, like, I'm so glad to be going through life with him and it's been hard. We've had some really hard moments, but I love him deeply and he's my home and he's my family. And many of us don't realize that the thoughts that we are having are coming from dysregulation and they're coming from dysregulation that is being informed by our past experience that's being projected on to the present moment, and we are listening to those thoughts as if they are our truth today, or our adult self's truth. And then we are making decisions in our lives from that place. That means we are making decisions that might not be informed by our truth, and then we are going down roads or avenues in our lives that aren't our right path or our truest path. And for this person, you know, if she had actually followed through on the thoughts she was having in sympathetic dorsal or freeze, she may have left her husband. And what we find here is when she's in regulation, that's not what she wanted to do at all. And so, so it's really important to understand here that not every thought that you are having is the truth of your adult self. I will say every thought that you are having is the truth to a particular part of you. And this, this episode isn't about parts work, but at any given moment, there is a version of us inhabiting our system, and it might not be our adult selves. A lot of times we are projecting the past onto our present. So for example, with her in her relationship with her husband, when she was in sympathetic, you know, there was a realization, oh, a lot of this anger that I have is actually at my father for the ways in which he was frightening and controlling, and I wasn't able to be myself in my home, and I have I have so much anger towards him and I'm realizing a lot of the things I was saying were actually about my father. And so if we don't understand that, we'll think that everything we're thinking or feeling has to do with the present moment. And the only way you can know what your truth is, is to anchor in regulation because now I'm actually present to the here and now and then ask myself with curiosity, what's actually true based in this moment today? What is actually true? So all that is to say, many of us in our lives are choosing behaviors or choosing things that might not actually be our right road or our right path. I did that for so much of my life, and in part that happens because these thoughts have a lot of energy to them, right? There's a lot of feeling involved in it. So we can tend to think, well, if I am having such a strong feeling, it might be must be my truth. But as I just named and explained for you, that's not necessarily our truth based in today. So it's really important to understand that we cannot change our thinking while we're in dysregulation. So to go back to the story that I, that I gave you here, if this person was— this woman was in her sympathetic nervous system where she's having all of that anger being projected at her husband, and all of those thoughts that I named are coming If I was to try to work with her and tell her from that state of dysregulation how, well, that's not actually true. Here are the things that you've said are true about Frank from regulation, or she was to try to tell herself that, like, you know, he's actually, you know, really thoughtful and he's done so much for me and he's comforted me in these ways. Our nervous system will not allow us to actually feel the affect involved with those thoughts that we might actually believe while we're in regulation. And that's because the rule of our nervous systems is that each state creates our entire experience. So the state is not only creating the thoughts, the state is creating the sensations and feelings associated with the thoughts, with the thinking. So if you try to cognitively tell yourself a different story while you're in dysregulation, it will be physiologically impossible to believe it. For example, let's say I'm feeling hopeless and shut down. I just, I feel like there's something wrong with me, or maybe I don't belong anywhere in the world. And then I try to tell myself a mantra, like, I do belong in the world. Everything belongs in the world. It'll just be words. I won't actually be able to feel it because the underlying sensations I'm going to have are going to be about disconnection and shame, because that's the state I'm in. And we all know this experience, right? Where I'm feeling like, there's no love in my life, 'cause I'm shut down in dorsal. And then I try to tell myself, well, just be grateful for your family or be grateful for the friends in your life. I can't feel that because I would only be able to feel that gratitude while anchored in regulation. Or when we're in our sympathetic system and we're always on the go and we tell ourselves, I feel calm and present in this moment. No, I actually don't feel calm or present. Or I am safe to relax. My system is saying, no, you're not safe. And so this is actually why there's such limitation to mindset work or cognitive behavioral therapy. And this is what neuroscience and polyvagal theory shows us, is that if I try to change that cognitive thinking without changing the state of my nervous system, it won't be able to be felt, meaning I won't be able to believe it. And we can go round and round and round in circles until we exhaust ourselves trying to do So like another example, you might tell yourself while in sympathetic, and maybe, uh, while in sympathetic, let's say you are feeling like you can't trust your partner and you are, you know, you feel like they're cheating on you because you haven't seen them all day and you haven't heard back from them. And, and there's a part of you that is so worried about that. If you try to tell yourself, no, I can trust them and here are all the reasons why I can trust them, you'll just get exhausted by trying to convince yourself into something that you don't feel. So this is what happens when we're doing mindset work or cognitive behavioral therapy. And I want to talk about what we actually want to do. And the work is not to battle against the thoughts. That, that is going to be ineffective for us. What we want to do is first turn towards regulation. That is the most important thing. So when you find yourself dysregulated, so experiencing any of those unsavory sensations or feelings that I named, I want you to ask yourself, what thought am I thinking? Because even if you don't have awareness around it, there is likely a cognitive story attached to it. So just ask yourself, what have I been thinking? Once you notice the thought, I'm gonna give you something simple, like you're in a mild sympathetic state and you notice a thought that the thought is, oh, I'll never get all of this done today. That's a pretty sympathetic evocative thought. It's trying to create more urgency in your system. I'm never gonna get all this done today. I'm never gonna get all this done today. As you see, I'm saying it as a statement, and the more that I say it, the more it increases the level of activation. So I actually wanna do something with you right now. I want you to think of one dysregulating thought that you have had, anything at all. Could be about your relationship, your work, your finances. Just think of one for a second. And what I want you to do is I want you to say that thought out loud 3 times, believing it to be true, 'cause that's what we do when we say it to ourselves in our mind. So I might say, There's not enough time to get everything done. There's not enough time to get everything done. There's not enough time to get everything done. So I want you to say it out loud 3 times, and I just want you to notice what happens in your body. What you're going to notice is that it's going to increase the somatic experience of the dysregulation. So you might notice your chest gets tighter, you feel a pit in your stomach, you feel this hopelessness arise, you feel panicked or scared. All of that is following this rule of our nervous system Meaning not only does our state create our story, but it increases the activation if we listen to it. Now I want you to try a really simple thing. I want you to now notice the thought. You might see it outside of yourself or almost like it's in a thought bubble. You might even see it as a color or an energy. So just notice the thought for a moment, like really see it. And then I want you to use this simple tool. I'm noticing the thought that, and then fill in the blank, whatever the thought is. So I'm noticing the thought that there isn't enough time. Time. And then do that 2 more times. I'm noticing the thought that there isn't enough time. And what I want you to do is to feel the somatic difference of that. What you should notice is that it actually lessens the charge or the activation of the thought. It helps us to separate from it so that it's not increasing the level of activation. So throughout your day, what I want you to do is just pause throughout the day, and if you're dysregulated, I want you to ask ask yourself, what thoughts are present? What have I been thinking that I didn't realize? And notice the thought. So use that tool, I'm noticing the thought that, and then what we wanna do is we don't wanna battle with the thought. We wanna turn towards regulation and remind yourself, if I'm in dysregulation, but I'm safe, that means I do not know if this thought I'm thinking is actually my truth. So I do not wanna take behaviors from this place because they might not actually be the behaviors that are right for me or the behaviors that I want to be taking, just like that story about that woman I told you about. So we pause and say, I know you sound very believable, very true to the thought, but I'm gonna turn towards regulation. And then once I'm in regulation, what I wanna ask myself is, what's actually true from this place of regulation? What is true? That is where your truth is. And we wanna begin really excavating while in regulation, what is true about all things in my life? What's true about What is true about my partnership? What is true about my work? What is true about this world? What is true about my desires? And I also just wanna name this. I really don't want you to ask yourself these, like, at first, these really big questions like, should I stay in this relationship or should I leave? It might be inquiring and saying, what is something that I love about this relationship? Is there something? And what is something that is really hard about this relationship? Or what is something that's not working for me? And feel truth in your body. Body. That's really important. Feel the affect of it. Now, truth will always have a peace to it. It doesn't necessarily mean that it feels good, but there's a peace involved in it. There might be quickly after some dysregulation, like, oh, it's scary to know that truth, but there's always a peace at first. And what I also want you to do when you're in regulation is this is the time where things like CBT and mindset work are actually effective. We want to actually build new neural pathways or new neural networks for positive thinking when we're here. So when you're present, just ask yourself, what is one positive thing that's true about me, about my life, et cetera? And as you name that truth, feel it in your body. So just notice, how does that feel? It's gonna feel very solid and anchored and present and unwavering. Uh, there might be a peace to it, an opening, and so on and so forth. The more that we do this, the more that we really we are supporting ourselves to have neural networks for positive thinking, but the more that we actually are very clear on what our truth is as a whole. I even invite people to write all these things down. So it's like my journal of truth. Here's what I know like I know like I know is true for me. And when I'm in dysregulation, just pick up that journal and look at it. What's actually true? And if the thoughts you're having are not aligned with what's listed there that you've written down, that's a clue that you're dysregulated and it's time to turn towards regulation. So the more that we do this, the more we gain control of our lives, the more we are able to change our thinking, come into regulation, and actually have the kind of thoughts that are going to support us to not only feel better in our lives but step towards the life we're wanting with greater ease. Not sure where to start with somatic healing? My free quiz, What's Keeping You Stuck, will equip you with a personalized guide and tangible trauma-informed tools to help you regulate your nervous system. Check out the link in the show notes to get started. So we have Rachel here with us for the Q&A portion of the episode. Hey Rachel, it's good to see you today.

Oh, hi, great to see you too. I'm excited. We have lots of great questions. Well, 3 for this episode. The first question is, my partner and I have been in couples therapy for a while. And one of my biggest challenges is that I feel like I can't trust them. Them. When they're late coming home from work and I haven't heard from them for an hour, I immediately think that they're betraying me or having an affair. The thoughts are all-consuming, even though they've never done anything to show me I can't trust them. But no matter how much I know that to be true, I can't stop these thoughts. Hmm.

Well, I think just to reiterate what we talked about in this episode, it's so important to understand that our state creates our story, number one. So that means where we are in our nervous system is directly indicative of our thinking. This sounds a lot to me like sympathetic evocative language, meaning the thoughts that this person's having are rooted in the sympathetic nervous system, which is from that place of there's danger here and I need to do something about it. So number one, state creates the story. So we know that if I stay in sympathetic, I'm going to continue to have more of those sympathetic thoughts. And secondarily, it's really important to understand that the purpose of those thoughts is to not only keep us in the state of dysregulation we are in, but actually to amplify that because it doesn't think we're safe. So I talk about this a lot. I think of our thoughts like they're lawyers, and their job is to argue their case why we must stay in dysregulation or regulation if we're finding ourselves there. And so if you think of it this way, imagine that, you know, I go to jury duty, I'm not a lawyer, and I show up, and imagine I tried to argue to, you know, the prosecution team why they're wrong. I know, Rachel, you wouldn't bet on me. I know you care about me, but you wouldn't bet on me winning that. And I wouldn't win because I'm not a well-seasoned lawyer. And so what we tend to try to do is, like we are a jury member battling against a lawyer, try to rationalize why that's not true and, you know, no, I can trust them and so on and so And then what happens is like a really good lawyer, they just come in with, could be one sentence that feels like so deep and so cutting. And we're like, oh my gosh, I'm wrong. This is true. And this is what's really occurring. And we'll go round and round and round in that process. And so like we talked about in this episode, it is vitally important to turn away from the argument with the thought or trying to reason with the thinking. And in that moment, I say, well, am I regulated or not? And if I'm not regulated, I don't actually know if these thoughts are true based in today. So I have to pause my inquiry about them and turn all my attention towards regulation in that moment. And then when I'm regulated, I can ask myself, what actually is true? And also, what are those thoughts reminding me of? Meaning, are they actually based in something in the past? The other thing I just wanna say is when we stay alone in our minds and in the somatic response happening in our body, it really exacerbates things. So the more that I can actually get this externalized, whether that's sharing with someone, you know, I'm noticing these thoughts coming from dysregulation that I know I can't count on being true, but they feel so true, or journaling about that can really help to externalize it. Now, when I say journal about it, I don't mean, yes, and I'm sure that they're cheating on me and da da da da da da, like from the mind. That dysregulated thinking, but instead having a full awareness around, even though this feels very real, I know it might not all be based in the present moment. And I know what this is like. I felt this way early on, and you know this, Rachel, and a lot of listeners know this. I was married for a decade, and early on in my marriage, I was 25 years old. I hadn't done any of the work that I spent the last decade and a half doing, and so I had a lot of parts of me that were terrified of being abandoned, and I had thoughts like that come coming up all the time. And, uh, it felt like truth because there was such a strong somatic response, uh, coupled with it. And that's what makes us think that the thought is true, because I am having the sensations and the feelings that are accompanying the thought. And so the more that we're able to actually have awareness around what's occurring and then separate from those thoughts, turn towards regulation, we can find out what truth is once we land in our ventral vagal complex.

Yeah, and that's so helpful because otherwise you can just spin and spin and loop in those thoughts and get more and more panicky. And yeah, just, it causes so much stress and, and dysregulation. And I love that tool. I'm noticing that I'm having the thought that my partner's not home yet, I wonder where he is, and just saying it out loud and getting some space and distance from it, and then doing something that you enjoy and And, you know, I read in the Community a lot of people find something, so it's their go-to thing. So every time I'm having these thoughts like this, I'm going to read a book that I love, or I'm going to go and walk outside, I'm going to go and hang out with the trees. And so it's, it can really help to just have one go-to. So as soon as you notice, I'm having those thoughts, ah, then go and do the regulating thing. And it can just help to break that pattern because it becomes, like a cyclical looping pattern. So I've seen that that's helped a lot of people in the community.

I love that you're sharing that. And just to add, I think an additional thing that can be really helpful is when in regulation, writing a list, like let's say about this person's partner, write a list of things that you know are true about them. So they make me feel this, I feel this kind of safety in my body when I'm with them, I can trust them. Here's the actions they've taken over the years that show me I can trust them. So compiling this list of actual truths and feel them in your body when you write them out. So it's not just a cognitive thing, like I'm gonna write this and feel it. And then what we wanna do is continue to revisit that, marinate in it again and again, so we can really build this muscle for what is it like to be anchored in and feel feel what's actually true. So we know what truth feels like regarding, you know, this person or this experience. And then when we're noticing those dysregulating thoughts, take out that list and see if you can bring them back into your embodied experience. That can be a great way to connect to what our actual reality is too.

Yeah, and that's such a great way to train yourself to be the ventral lawyer then.

Yes.

And then you've got more chance of winning that case.

Exactly.

Instead of battling because you feel it in your body, you know what the truth is because it's your felt body experience when you're in regulation.

And the thing in relationships is we're so oftentimes really focused on what's not working and what our partner could do wrong, might do wrong, is doing wrong. And that negative orientation, and we do it to each other, that negative orientation can really, not can, does really disrupt a safe connection and a safe bond. And then no longer do we feel like as we are is enough. We're making each other feel like you are not enough as you are. And then we feel like we can't be ourselves, and it's kind of a domino effect that occurs, which really creates disconnection and limits the level of bond that occurs. So the more we can orient towards the positive, the more that we actually create a deeper bond. And the other thing is the more I'm oriented towards the positive, or I'm gonna say this, the more my partner is oriented towards the positive in me, it makes me really motivated to then do the things that he needs for me to do for him to feel better. So the things that, you know, he's asking me to work on within myself or to the needs he's asking me to meet, if I am really getting consistent positive affirmation and reinforcement from him, I get really motivated motivated to make change. And that's how humans work. So we can tend to think like, no, if I focus on the things that aren't working and I make sure you know the things about you that are not working in the relationship, you'll change them. But that is not motivating. That actually puts the brakes on for people and makes us not want to make those shifts. And so the truth is, when I'm actually regulated, it really inspires— we inspire one another to make those changes.

Yeah, and then you grow closer as a couple. So yeah, how beautiful. So you're talking about negative thoughts there. This is what this next question is about. So the people closest to me complain that I focus too much on the negative and what's not working, but no matter how hard I try to focus on the positive, the negative thoughts loop and keep coming back. What can I do to change that?

Yeah. So, you know, I said this a moment ago, but I really wanna reiterate it, that human beings as a whole are negative-oriented creatures. And I don't mean negative like we're a downer, we're Eeyore, and just is no fun to be around you and you're heavy and all of that. I mean, we've adapted over a very long period of time to ensure our survival in every way that we possibly can. So if I just, you know, went out into the world and was only oriented oriented towards everything that was good, you think of, think, you know, back when us humans were just making our debut here on this planet, if we were oriented towards only the wonderful things happening around us, it probably would not ensure our survival because we wouldn't be oriented towards, oh, if you drink that water by that watering hole, you know, 4 people died. So let's definitely not do that again. If you don't harvest this time of year before the frost comes, there'll be a, you will starve. To make sure, we had to make sure that we were really oriented towards the things that could go wrong or did go wrong. And we can, you know, call that being negatively oriented, but not in the way that we're often shamed around being, you know, like I'm a downer, I'm focused on what's not working. So I just wanna name that, that is the baseline for us as human beings, and it's all so we can ensure our continued survival. So it actually can require some effort effort on our part to shift our orientation towards the positive because our, um, our, our survival system is going to really want to make sure that it's looking out for the traps, the things that could happen, and let's make sure that those things don't happen. Um, so it's like working, it's like working out, working a muscle. And like I named, uh, a moment ago, uh, it can, with our partner, having a list of things that are positive and true about them, that we feel about them, and revisiting it over and over again is like working that muscle. And the more that I work the muscle, the easier it is for me to be oriented towards the positive. And so I invite this person and everybody to do that in your daily life. How can I connect to something that is true and positive, either about me, about my life, about the people in my life, about my work, about my home? And it's not And this is very different than just creating a gratitude list. Gratitude lists without the somatic embodiment of what you're saying are just words. And it is the embodiment of what you're saying that actually imprints in your system, this is true and this is real. That is so important to understand. Like I could say, I'm so grateful for my community, but as I just said that, I didn't feel it. I didn't think about people inside my community. I'm not thinking about the way as they've impacted my life, maybe I feel 5% of that. But if I actually sit with the community that over the last, I don't know, 8 years that I've created or cultivated and nourished, I can really feel into how much that's transformed my life and how lucky I am to have people who truly see me and how grateful I am that they've done enough work that because they can see themselves, they can see me. And as I'm recalling this on purpose for everyone listening, I'm noticing a shift in my body. It's really different than me just saying, I'm grateful for my community or whatever, my dog. So when we feel into it, it really becomes imprinted in my system. This is real and this is true, and this is creating a new neural pathway. So the more that we do it, the easier it is to actually focus on the positive positive, because now I have an imprinted pathway for it. And so when people just say like, well, just be more positive or focus on the positive, that's such an abstract statement that doesn't really give the path towards it. And the more that we are able to do what I'm suggesting, the more that actually changes in a really profound way. And the last thing I just wanna say about this question is another reason why a lot of us can be negatively inclined is if we have parts in the past whom had experiences where when they deeply desired something, it was not met. So I deeply desired or hoped for something like to be unconditionally loved as a child, or to be seen, or to be cherished and celebrated, all those things. I'm reaching out to someone or to many people, and I'm not met, then my system says, well, don't ever hope again. Don't ever open yourself to desiring something deeply again, because the experience of being that vulnerable and then it not being met is excruciating. So what we can instead do is let's just anticipate everything not being great or being negatively inclined. If I can anticipate it not being great, I'm armored, I'm self-protected. And so nobody's actually getting near that vulnerable part of me. So another reason this happens is because it's an armoring for our parts. And the more that we simultaneously do thought work, but also work with this part to show them, I will never not be here to support you, I will never let you down, that those parts then feel safer to allow us to open up in the world to experiencing being let down and heartbreak. And from my adult self, I can manage that. The younger parts are the ones that don't have the capacity to manage it.

Yeah, and I really like that you, um, shared about how to deepen into having the body somatic sense of the positive things that are happening in our lives, because often we use the words, um, marinate in, and sometimes people don't always know what that means. And actually, by really taking time to sit and be with and feel in our bodies just, you know, how exquisite or lovely something is in our life, then we're getting to imprint that, and that stay with us more than, like you said, "Oh, I love my son," or, you know? So yeah, it's nice to have an actual description of how to go about doing that.

Yeah. And you know what's so funny, Rachel? You know when you say things so many times, I say marinate in that. I'm assuming for some people having no context for what the heck I'm talking about when I say that, they could be thinking like, "You mean like marinating chicken? Like, what are you talking about?" But essentially it kind of is that. The somatic experience permeate us. So be deeply felt inside of us. But thank you for saying that because I, yeah, I'm sure sometimes that can be pretty confusing for people.

It's a term that you wouldn't always know about. I marinate tofu, but you know, so yeah. And again, this really links to this next question. So this one's about affirmations manifesting. And first of all, this person says, hi Sarah, I'm loving your podcast. I've been taught in talk therapy and manifestation work that to change my thoughts, I just have to choose new ones. I tried using a lot of mantras and affirmations, but when I say them, they don't feel like truth. They just feel like words I'm saying. I've seen other people around me have a lot of success and bring in the things they're wanting, but it doesn't seem to work for me.

So that's because you are incredibly normal and human and working exactly right. And what is being suggested for you doesn't work. You know, I always think about, by the way, the people who are suggesting this, because physiologically speaking, it doesn't work. So meaning it's not actually possible to do this. This is what neuroscience shows us. So these people that are suggesting to just think differently or pick a different thought, it's not working for them because it's not possible for it to. So I just wanna name, it's not working because you are well working, you're a perfectly working vessel. Think about it this way. If you're in your dorsal vagal complex, that's our 500-million-year-old self-protective system, most extreme form of self-protection. This is basically energy conservation. And we only go here when our nervous system is saying, this danger is so big, I don't think we can fight this thing, and I don't think so we can flee it. So what it does is it says, okay, my love, I can't make this danger stop, but what I can do is I can help you leave your body so you don't have to feel the perpetual pain of this. I think it's one of the most beautiful things I ever learned in any therapeutic or mental health work in all of my training. Like, when I learned that— no one, by the way, said those words to me. I feel like I'm an advocate for the nervous system. Nervous system, I hope you don't mind, make up sentences on your behalf, but that is what it's doing, basically what I'm saying. And that's so loving, right? So every mammal has the ability to do this. The zebra that's about to get eaten by the lion, its system will do that for it so it doesn't have to feel the pain of getting eaten alive. And if we experienced racism, if we were chronically bullied, if we grew up in an unsafe home, if our emotional needs weren't met, our system is saying this perpetual experience is so dangerous that continues to happen. I need us to get out of here in a way that only the nervous system can help with. And so anyway, we call in this dorsal vagal complex, our nervous system does, and this is where things like apathy, hopelessness, depression lives. We feel like we have no energy even when we slept. You can feel like you're, uh, if you've ever seen the show, um, Stranger Things, it's almost like this, the Upside Down world, meaning I'm here but not here. Everything kind of feels far away, or I'm in a dream. All of your senses become muted. This is where dissociation lives, as well. So it's energy conservation, like a bear in hibernation. So if I am in that state of shutdown, imagine that I've gone there because I— let me think, try to think of an example— I've gone there because I am being chronically bullied in school, let's say, as a kid. And so I just kind of disconnect and shut down. And then I try to tell myself while in school, the only way for me to be safe was to be quiet, to get small, to shut down, to disappear, and then someone said to me, hey, why don't you say these thoughts to yourself? It'll make you feel better. So then I say these thoughts out loud, like, you are safe to be big and bright in the world. You are safe to take up space. Use your voice and the world will love it. You know, like all these kinds of things. You are vibrant and filled with energy. No, I'm not. And no, that's not true. So my system literally won't let me feel it. And if we go back to, you know, evolution, If I was about to be eaten by a lion, I go into this shutdown place because maybe I'm trying to hide from the lion. I think the lion might see me, so I just go quickly into this energy conservation place, and then I try to tell myself that I am safe in the world. No, I'm not. I'm actually not safe in the world. This is what's true. Or I try to tell myself I am safe to come into my fullness and bigness. No, I'm not actually. If I was to do that, that, something really bad would happen. So when you're dysregulated in your dorsal vagal complex or any state of dysregulation, your nervous system actually thinks you're not safe. It's not doing that because it's confused or because it thinks you possibly couldn't, might not be safe. It really believes that you aren't okay. And that's how perceived threat works, meaning our system is superimposing the past on the present and it doesn't know the past isn't here. Here, so it thinks the danger is still happening now. And so, you know, that sounds ridiculous, right, Rach? Like, if I was to tell someone that they should just, you know, relax, or just, you know, open up and be seen when they're about to be eaten, like, by a lion, why would I ever do that? And their system is gonna be resistant and say, that's not true or real. And this is why it doesn't stick or land when we try to tell ourselves positive mantras or like, I used to do this when I was younger, put sticky notes everywhere, "You are loved," or "I love you." Like I'd put that on the thing, like loving myself in the mirror, all kinds of stuff when I was young. And none of that actually helped. I couldn't feel any of it, which actually exacerbated my shame and hopelessness. Like I can't even feel this and it doesn't work for me. And so I just wanna name for this person and everyone listening, the only time that mantras or affirmations work is when you're in a state of regulation. So when I'm in safety, my nervous system is receptive to that kind of thing. It's receptive to, I'm safe to slow down, I'm safe to take up space, I'm safe to be seen, I am worthy of love, I am connected to all things. My nervous system, as I say each of those things, confirms, yep, that's true, that's true, that's true, because I'm anchored in safety. So we do wanna use those things, 'cause as you said in a previous episode, the last question, it helps to build the muscle of that ventral lawyer, the pathway for thinking when we're in regulation, but they'll only stick when we're actually regulated.

Wow, and that's so important to know because otherwise you're like trying to like just put something in and the nervous system, it can't land, it can't come into our body and yeah, and then makes you feel worse because you're doing the thing that everyone's saying, oh, this will work, 'If you just do this, this will work.' And actually it's great to know why it doesn't work and what to do instead. So yeah. Well, thank you so much, Sarah. That was it. Yeah. Really great.

Thanks for being here today, Rach.

Yeah. And thanks to everyone. I hope everyone finds that helpful and we'd love to hear if anyone ever wants to email in or let us know, then we'd really like to hear.

Yeah. Thank you for saying that. Uh, for everyone listening, you're always welcome to, to reach out to us, to let us know how, uh, how the podcast is landing for you. If you've got any questions about it, please know you can always reach out. We'll put the email that you can do so, or reach out to, in the show notes. And for anybody who has had questions as you're listening to episodes, we would love to hear what those are so we can answer them for you in future episodes. So we'll link out a way to do that, whether it's a written question, a video, or a recorded voice question too. Thank you for being here, everybody, today, and I hope that that working with your thoughts ends up being a really supportive experience for you from this somatic place.