The Genius Within with Mike Zeller

Our comfort zone is not where we're going to grow. Exactly right. You feel that in the gym all the time, or if you're running, you get to that point where it hurts so bad you just want to stop. Oh, this hurts. I'm having a reaction to this. But then you realize, wait a second, that's growth. Very important question for you here. What led you to do this type of work with NLP?

Yeah, in college, in, in grad school, playing sports in high school and college, one of the things I noticed is like, ah, it's such a mental game. I could, I could like crush it in practice, but if something was off in my mind, I'd step to the plate, strike out, right? I should crush that ball and I whiffed. Most of life is mental. And then as I got familiar with Tony Robbins, and at about age 25, I was like, oh, this dude has it down. And I just dove into it. I got my master practitioner licenses and NLP practitioner and loved it and have seen significant results in what I can help clients do. I would have therapists send me their clients that they were stuck with and, you know, they'd be like, hey, I've been working with this girl for 2 years. Can you help her? I can't get her unstuck.

What is up, guys? This is the Determined Society and I'm Shawn French, your host. And before I introduce today's guest, I'd like to remind you that if you love the show, if you've heard it before, go ahead and share this. With all of your friends, your enemies, your boss, whomever you feel would benefit from this message today. It's really important that we have interaction. And, uh, don't, don't be afraid to share today's episode, guys. Like, I can't stress that enough. Like, this guy that I have with me, he is an NLP master. He's born in a farm in Lexington, Kentucky. He now resides in Nashville, Tennessee. He's an NLP master with over 16 entrepreneurial ventures underneath his belt. He is breaking weak-ass mindsets all over the globe. Everybody, welcome to the show, Mike Zeller. What's up, buddy?

What's up, Sean? So excited to be here. And, uh, let's see what type of weak-ass mindsets we can break today.

Oh dude, man, hopefully it's mine.

We all got some weak-ass in us that, uh, some way in our life we show up in a disempowered state, you know?

No, sure, man. We, you know, it's so funny because, you know, a lot of people feel like these, you know, mindset coaches and people that have a strong amount of determination and grit, like individuals like you and I, never have moments where we show up like a weak little bitch. Like, honestly, it happens, right? So, you know, let's get into it, man. Like, I— here's what I've noticed a lot of times throughout my career in baseball and into, you know, my sales career and entrepreneurial venture. This is my first one. There's times where that weak mindset will just show up, man, out of nowhere. How have you ever had moments in your journey as well that that thing just shows up and you just need to turn up the volume just a little bit on some other thoughts?

Yeah, 100%. So if you think of our minds as like, it's a series, our neuropathways are like a series of highways. So if I go down, if I go back to my hometown, I don't have to think about how to get to my parents' house or go back to my old high school where I played high school baseball. I don't have to think. It's— there's a neural pathway already there. So like, if I go to my parents' house there, when my wife and I were early in our marriage, she noticed I showed up differently when I was around my parents. And, and so I would allow certain things that happened, like my, my dad would sort of have these off-putting comments around that he's almost like one foot in the grave. This is the last couple of years, like he's one foot in the grave. And my mom might say something and kind of her family growing up, like they would tease their, their comfort with emotional discomfort was like, let's make light of it and move past it real quick. I love both my parents. They're phenomenal parents. But like, that's a neural pathway that was already set. So my mom, dad would show up at our house or I'd go to their house. Boom, it'd slide into that and I'd almost like become a little more passive. Then my wife pointed out next time they were over, I said, hey, Dad, you're no longer allowed to talk about being one foot in the grave. And because I'm like changing the neural pathway, I'm like, I'm going to build a new highway. Mama, you're not going to disparage, make playful, you know, sarcastic comments about me or ideally my dad either.

So that's an interesting point, brother, and I want to dive into this, and I want the audience to really take this one in because I, I think you might have just cleared up a lot of people's, you know, I guess, neural pathways that they didn't even know really fucking existed, right? And I'm sitting here thinking like, oh my God, you know, my wife's told me many times that, hey, when your mom's around, you act differently, or when you're around your sister, you act differently, you know. And again, like That's a neural pathway, and I didn't even realize that was there. You know, let me ask you this. When you approached your father and said, hey, you're no longer allowed to joke about being half foot in the grave, and Mom, you can't make any disparaging comments or sarcastic comments about me or my dad, how did they take that?

Um, they were caught off guard a little bit. It was a little abrupt. Um, yeah, right. But You know what, is it more important for me to avoid discomfort or to create the presence and the energy and what I want in my family? I was like, hey, this is affecting my wife and affecting— and now we have a much better relationship and my wife actually enjoys being around them more.

You know, that's a great point, man. I actually love that. And again, I wasn't suspecting that it mattered, right? Or you felt, you know, it was uncomfortable, you know, conversation. But at the same time, it's like these types of things need to be had, right? Because if you don't— if you don't tell them how you're feeling once you notice something and something's brought up to your attention by your best friend, your wife, like, you gotta honor that, man, you know? And, and it's just so nice to hear that other people deal with this. I thought it was just me and my— and my wife dealing with, you know, the— you know, certain dynamics and relationships, but You know, it's funny because we can flip this into a positive too. When I'm around certain friends, I act so much better, right? And, and I don't ever act out of like, out of like craziness, but like I'm a little bit more positive around certain friends, right? I'm a little bit more positive around my in-laws.

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Yeah, right. So they provide an amazing neural pathway for me. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty interesting.

Yeah. And you're speaking to really because so much— we have 60,000 thoughts a day and 99% of them are subconscious. So it's almost like you walk into— if you really love McDonald's, you walk into McDonald's, you know what you're going to get. If it's McDonald's breakfast, you know what you're going to get, right? You walk into, you know, Fleming Steakhouse, got a favorite dessert, favorite wine, favorite shrimp cocktail, whatever. Boom. You don't have to think about it. And we have patterns around money. We have patterns around our relationship with sex, our relationship with a car. And you're talking about hanging out with friends. That's why it's so important to surround— you become a product of the 5 people you spend the most time with. You're literally marinating yourself in that mindset, in that energy of abundance or scarcity, in that jadedness or that positiveness of life. That health, how you treat the— your significant other. Literally, if you're around guys that cheat on their wives and go to strip clubs all the time, what are you probably going to be? That's the energy, right?

Yeah.

But you and I, we're hanging out with, you know, Dr. Taren Marie. We're hanging out with other entrepreneurs and leaders and thinkers. And heck, even creating a podcast means you're automatically going to be around more good people.

You know, it's so funny because like Dr. Tara Marie is an unbelievable woman. I, I, I absolutely love her, and I think that her and Mike are going to be here during, uh, the wintertime, uh, right here. So we're gonna— she reached out, she says, hey, we're gonna be there, I think you want to hang out? I'm like, yeah, let's do it, let's, let's, let's— it'll be great. But you know, when I made the podcast, you know, I really— it really started small, right? I, I just wanted to interview local people, and I didn't really think it would turn into something where I'm talking to dudes like you, you know, in the room with Bedros Keuilian, on, you know the other end with Taren Marie and people like Amberly Lago. It's just nuts, right? But like, that becomes, that becomes my network, right? And so I learned something from every single one of you guys at different points. I just think it's so important because as you try to level up in life, you need people that are there, right? You know, a bunch of, you know, the current state Shons aren't going to help me rise. I mean, that's just, that's just the reality of it. And it's so It's so difficult because when the moment that your current friends or the people that live down the street from you see you trying to level up, man, it really messes with their minds, right? Because it's like, what do you mean you're not drinking? Yeah, like, why? Wait, why are you working out again today? You lifted it earlier. Why are you going to run? Well, because like, I want a certain something in my life and this is what it is like. Why does it matter? But it's funny how the things that we do to try to break away from certain activities and then to start pouring more into our emotional and physical selves and spiritual selves, it offends people. Why do you think that is?

So unconsciously, what are our brains designed to do? The first priority of the human brain is to keep you safe, to keep you alive. Yeah. And what does it perceive as dangerous? What it doesn't know, what it doesn't understand. That's the normal default wiring. Our default mode is what is— what we don't know is dangerous or unsafe. And even what our, what our parents teach us: stay away from strangers, stay away from this, don't eat that unless they know it's safe, right? And it's— and there's validity to that. Some strangers are dangerous. Most aren't, but some are. Most things you could eat, probably safe, but some things you eat a penny and you're 4 years old, that penny could get stuck in your throat, could be a problem, some rocks, some poison, whatever. Um, so unconsciously, when we see our friends doing something that we don't know and we haven't done and we're not familiar with, it might feel threatening, might feel like we're going to lose our friend. And so it's crabs in a bucket, you know, one crab tries to get out, the rest— if there's more than one crab in the bucket, the rest of crabs are going to try and grab it and pull it right back down. This is dangerous, don't go out there, you're being crazy.

You know, it's funny because like when, when people perceive that as I'm losing my friend, they're not really losing their friend. It's just dynamics going to change a little bit, right? Like where I might be over there, I might not be drinking as much, but I'm going to be over there. Yeah, I'm going to watch a football game with y'all. I'm going to— we're going to do what we do. We're going to eat some good food and we're going to have a blast. But I don't necessarily need to partake in certain things. I think the brain, to your point, to keep us safe and keep us alive, but also to seek comfort. Yeah, right. And, and, and as we know, our comfort zone is not where we're going to grow. Exactly right. You, you feel that in the gym all the time, or if you're running, you know, like you get to that point where it hurts so bad and you just want to stop. Oh, this hurts. I, I'm having a reaction to this. But then you realize, wait a second, that's growth, right? We're tearing down the old and we're building up the new. Um, very important question for you here. What led you to do this type of work with NLP and all that? Because that's a very important and very, I guess, needed thing in the world today. So what led you to that?

Yeah, in college, in grad school, so playing— actually, I was playing baseball too, playing sports in high school and college. One of the things I noticed is like, it's such a mental game. I could like crush it in practice, but if something was off in my mind, I'd step to the plate, strike out, right? I should have crushed that ball and I whiffed. So most of life is mental. And then as I got familiar with Tony Robbins and at about age 25, I was like, oh, this dude has it down. And I just dove into— I got my master practitioner license as an NLP practitioner and loved it and have seen significant results in what I can help clients do. I would have therapists send me their clients that they were stuck with, and, uh, and, you know, they'd be like, hey, I've been working with this girl for 2 years, can you help her? I, I can't get her unstuck. And, um, and then I usually get results in the first couple weeks. Um, so the, the shifts that we want to make, you know, they really come down to 3 core areas, and this is a a recent development where I've realized how important this third area, because I would always focus on the first two. The first is your identity. Like, you think of Kobe Bryant. Kobe Bryant off the court, nice dude. On the court, he was a killer because he had this Black Mamba identity. He was shifting to that persona. Beyoncé, former church girl, choir girl. She's like, hey, that's not going to be the world-class entertainer I know I'm meant to be. Sasha Fierce. I got to shift into that. For me, when I went through a season, lost $1 million, dude, I was— I had shame, I had embarrassment. I'm the provider. I'm supposed to be successful. I'm a high achiever. I'm a Type 3 Enneagram. I'm going to kick some ass and I'm going to achieve, achieve, achieve. Well, I no longer was achieving. My weak ass— I asked my body what the name of that version of me— Weak Ass Willie. Weak ass.

Weak ass Willie. I love it, bro. Weak ass Willie.

His tail was tucked between his legs and he did not want to see the light of day. He did not want to see anyone for about a year and a half.

How did weak-ass Willy show up though? I'm curious. Like, was it internal or was it just— was there a lot of— was it written all over you?

Well, it shows up both ways. So if you look, you can tell energetically when someone is confident. And Amy Purdy in her book Presence also talks about a lot of the research. When someone is confident, Their shoulders are back. They stand up straight— straighter. Their testosterone— your testosterone is actually higher. Um, when you are depressed and down, you're physiologically— you're kind of slumped. And, and a way to actually shift your energy is actually shift your physiology. So if your shoulders are slumped, like Tony Robbins— that's why his events are so powerful, because no matter what state you're in, he's going to make you jump up and down. He's going to make you high five. He's going to make you celebrate. So because it shifts your physiology, it shifts your emotional feeling on the inside.

Hmm.

And it literally releases neurochemicals, meaning serotonin, dopamine, endorphins, all those things. That's why exercise is so powerful.

Yeah, that's why I always feel great after I leave the gym. Yeah, you know, yeah, I pump, I pump a good 30-minute walk and then I do a lift and then I'm like, dude, I'm drenched, I'm out of here. Yeah, you know, it's, it's one of those things where you never, after it's done, you never regret it.

Yeah.

Right. You never regret it.

Yeah.

Um, you know, that's, that's interesting. You know, I, I've been really curious because it's something that, you know, straight up I've struggled with in my life and I know a lot of others struggle with this as well. And in the audience, if you have any questions about this specific topic coming up, go ahead and drop me an email, sean.french@thedeterminedsociety.com. I'll put that in the show notes, but the mindset of abundance and, you know, Mike, you and I talked about it a little bit before we started recording. I think this is something the audience can get a lot out of. And I know I can get a lot out of it too. It's one thing to say, hey, think abundantly, be, you know, have gratitude. But there's a point, right, where when you're, when you're going for that shift, your subconscious is going to pull you back because it's uncomfortable. And then you think of like the current state Sean or current state weak-ass Willie. I think my guy would be Bart. I think I'd name my guy Bart. You know, I think, I think my lower self would have to be Bart for sure. What, why is that so difficult to truly ascend to that abundance mentality and just not be pulled back?

So there's, back to that neuropathways, there's probably an energetic wiring. Why, why if you grew up middle class, do you probably live a middle class life? Why if you grew up poor, are you most likely going to live a poor life? If you grew up wealthy, you're more likely to live a wealthy life. You're energetically wired. Now, the beauty of American life, beauty of most countries in the world, you can escape. You can ascend up the ladder. You can also descend. So, but how do you— how you do it is hard. And it comes down to back to those 3 core areas: identity, beliefs, and energy. If my identity does not match that higher level, then I'm not going to get there. Like Michael Jordan's identity, he's like, hey, when he gets kicked off the high school basketball team, when he gets— certain things go wrong, his identity was like, I'm a champion. I'm going to freaking figure this out.

Mm-hmm.

I'm the most competitive freaking individual ever played team sports was his identity. Right. And he had the talent to back it up. The next part. And I like to say your identity precedes your destiny. Something that supports us in becoming more abundant and letting go of this old scarcity mindset, you know, is the reality that also there's like almost think of it as a competitive tension. There's opposing forces like opposing teams. The negative opposing force is this old story, old beliefs, old identity, old energy. Of you're not good enough, you're not worthy of it, blah, blah, blah. You're not smart enough, too tall, too young, too old, not the right skin color, wrong sex, not educated enough, too educated, whatever. Missed your opportunity, didn't miss your— you never got an opportunity, whatever. All these stories, it's rackets, right, in our head. On the positive side is desire. Let me break down that word desire. To— it comes from the— I think it's an old Latin phrase, du and sire. Da means of, sire means the father. If you were given a desire, think of the law of attraction, think of Jesus, ask and you shall receive. Think of quantum physics. Quantum physics talks about how you can— I remember at 19 years old walking into my library on a Saturday afternoon, picking up a physics journal and reading about quantum physics. This is like 25 years ago. Yeah, New Yorker, a researcher in New York and a researcher in San Francisco had identified that they could send like, I think it was like quarks from a super high-powered microscope with a thought from New York to San Francisco. The power of their thought. And they had documented in an academic journal. This wasn't like a frou-frou, you know, law of attraction book, right?

I like it.

It was real stuff. And you think in our life, so we manifest what we— we're called, the desire is placed in us, but there's a tension and opposing force. And those opposing forces can also be the things that cause us to rise. Like when I lost that million dollars in 18 months, I said, "You know what? I'm going to re-freaking-wire my money mindset." And I read a money mindset book for 35 weeks straight. And I've read 96 money mindset books. Now, I've written a couple of money mindset journals. I'm going to write some books in the future around this. And I'm going to create— I see in my mind, I'm going to create $100 million net worth for me. I haven't yet, but I also can see it coming. And it's like, if my identity, if my visual, if I see myself over here, my reality is a gap, I'm behind that gap, but I start seeing myself over here more and more, and I proclaim and move, that means I'm going to move. I'm going to take inches of direction towards that step. But if I see myself as a victim, powerless, helpless, not good enough, not smart enough, can't do it, not enough of the right opportunities, I'm not going to move.

Yeah.

So the identity is the first part.

I love it, man, because you brought up a great point right there. And I want everybody to listen to this one. If you wanted to raise your money mindset, right, and your monetary awareness, what did you do? You started reading books about money mindset. So I think that's something that people are not doing, man. It's simple. It's not easy.

Yeah.

Right. It's simple, not easy. Typically what like what people like to do is I'm not getting it. I'm not making it. I'm not this. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. Universe.

Boom.

You're not. Yes, you're not. Now, we all have these areas in our lives, right, that we go through and that we fight through. So what I'm hearing you say is if you struggle with money and creating wealth and creating abundance, read books about money mindset.

Yeah, right.

If you struggle with fitness, start reading books about nutrition and fitness and put those things in your mind to where you start vibrating on that frequency. Right. And let me ask you another question. When you started reading these books about money mindset, how long before you started really like feeling that in your being like, man, I am the guy?

Yeah. Great, great question. Real quick, and you said something else really important. You said, "I am not, I am not, I am not." One of the most powerful phrases that a human being ever says is, "I am," and then whatever follows the "I am." Literally every day, I'd say almost every day of the year, not quite, but here's my playlist. In the morning, first thing I do, Like this morning, woke up at 5:30 AM and I'm making it automatic because it's not automatic. How many people wake up in the morning with a positive mindset? You just don't.

Shit.

Yeah.

Come on.

Yeah. No. Yeah. I am Magic Mike. I am a wealth magnet. I am a—

Love it.

Earning and saving millions. So that's what I wake up with. Every mind.

So, so these I am's, I want the audience to really point out, I mean, to hear that the first thing he, he feels he is, is Magic Mike.

Yeah.

You know, not from the movie though, right? No, I'm all white in my dancing ability because the girls are like screaming like, ah, no, Magic Mike.

I'm definitely not that. But, but if you look, so the, the mind affects the body. And the body affects the mind. So you have to work on the energy. The— how you work on the energy is— and, and your heart is— here's another key component— your heart is 65,000 times more magnetically powerful, or electromagnetically powerful, than the mind, meaning electrical energy. This comes from a HeartMath Institute, so this is like well-documented research. All right. So our energy is also really— that's the last piece. It's a piece that was missing for me because I would read the books and read the books and all that, but I was still on this energy of— it could be still be in this energy of scarcity. So how do you shift out of that? Put yourself in proximity and energy of others that are in that abundance. Or for example, when I bought my first Tesla, all right, so I, I This is like in, I don't know, 8 years ago, 7 years ago. You know what I was like? All right, I love this car, but how the heck am I going to afford a $130,000 car? At the time, that's what it was. Um, but I went and drove it. I went and sat in test drive and experienced it. And then I started— while I was actually doing it, I was actually reprogramming my mind and my body that this is safe. Back to our brain's desire. Oh, what it doesn't know Avoid. It's not safe being more wealthy. Not safe. Upper limit problem. Nope. Come back down. Right. So, and I— in my next car that I want to get is a Porsche Taycan, the all-electric Porsche. I love electric cars. Yeah, like, I love gasoline-powered, you know, 911s are great too. I want to get one of those eventually. But the— I've driven, test-driven it like 5 times. I'm just marinating my mind in it. So, and then put in my— so it's— and then, but before you also marinate, you have to release. Most people don't release the trauma, release the fears, release the junk, and it gets stuck in our bodies. Us as humans, we're like emotionally constipated.

So I— so again, like, guilty. Like, let's dive into trauma, let's dive into that. Because to me, if you— like you said, if you don't release and if you don't get rid of all that emotion then you do become stuck. I feel in so many areas in my life, I have had trauma. And look, I'm not— it's not poor me. We all have trauma. We all have things that go on in our life, whether we were bullied, whether, you know, we've lost everything, whether we don't feel we're good enough. But to overcome it, that's where the magic is. So, so talk to me a little bit how, how I and how these individuals out there that are holding on to some past trauma, how do they release it?

Yeah, so the releasing is a really hard thing. Okay, um, now, and mainly because it's hard to release it out of your body. We can consciously release it. So I love those exercises where you literally write out everything you're releasing. I release fear. I release the story of brokenness. I release what so-and-so did to me. I release what I did to so-and-so. And burning that letter, whatever it is, you know, and energetically praying to God, universe, whatever it is, having a ritual of release. That part often works, but it's often also not enough. And why it's often not enough is think of a PTSD veteran comes back from war. In fact, PTSD was determined a mental condition because so many Vietnam veterans for a decade said, "Hey, we've got something wrong with us. We can't get this fixed. We can't show up differently. We are plagued by this thing, by what happened to us in Vietnam. 1983, they finally designate PTSD as a real condition. All right, because it was trapped in their body, muscle memory, right? Why, why if someone smacks their hand towards your eyes, you blink and you flinch? It's stored in your body, not because you— yeah, you know. Anyway, so the The challenge with that is human beings, most human beings do not ever learn how to, in a healthy way, in a complete way, process their negative emotions. We become emotionally constipated. And I'm guilty of that. I was one of those and I'm still learning to flush out negative emotions more in a healthier way. And it's because we grew up in homes, our parents didn't know. Their parents didn't know. Like, I grew up in a home, I had great parents, but as I talked, the anger was the safe emotion. Anger and avoid sadness, avoid despair, avoid doubt, avoid these things. Just grind it out, go, right? So did we talk about the polar bear and trauma?

No, we haven't yet. I'm still caught up in the fact that, like, I'm thinking, did we grow up in the same house?

Like, I don't— yeah, right.

We haven't talked about the polar bear. No.

So let me tell you about a polar bear. In the '80s, in the '70s and '80s, this trauma researcher and thought leader, author Dr. Peter Levine, one of the top trauma experts who's lived, he unfortunately passed away not too long ago. He wrote this book, Healing Trauma, and documents a story about polar bears that was a breakthrough in our understanding of trauma. So for years and years, researchers would chase a polar bear down with a helicopter in Alaska, tag it, check its vitals, make sure it's all good. But they were befuddled and confused. Why do these polar bears make all this frantic movement as the tranquilizer wears off? They couldn't understand it. Then one day, a researcher played the video of the polar bear as the tranquilizer is wearing off in slow motion. What did they find? Found that its legs were moving like it was running. What was it doing? I was releasing the energy of the trauma of being chased by this flying demon, it thinks, right? Then, then it brought me back to memory of, oh, my dad made us— we didn't have cable TV. My dad made us watch nature shows as a kid, and I remember seeing like a wildebeest get hunted down by a lion, dragged back. It's still alive. It's in the jaws of the lion. It wiggles free and runs off, and the lion's too tired to chase it. 2 minutes later, that wildebeest is eating grass. I'm like, dude, why the heck? You know, if I'm in the Jaws line, I'm not eating a hamburger. Hey Sean, let's go get a burger and fries, dude.

Let's go eat. Come on, boys.

I'm, I'm dealing with it. But the animal kingdom is designed to process and release those energies so it can survive and go right back to life. We hold it in. How many people, how many women, how many men have relived the same freaking pattern? And the same trauma and played it over and over in their mind.

That's such a great point, man. And it's just one of those things like, how does one become good at releasing those energies, right? And that trauma.

Yeah. So I'm going to tell you a secret weapon. All right. And that pretty much hands down works. And this is one of the unique combinations of tools in my toolbox that frankly, I don't think anyone else has right now and I'm just emerging and sharing this. Plant medicines, take the combo of psilocybin or MDMA or I've done some sassafras mixed with kanna and a few other substances. Now, obviously, most of this stuff is not legal in most of the country. It's in clinical trials, stage 3 clinical trials, So obviously proceed with caution, wisdom, et cetera. I'm not necessarily endorsing it even though implicitly maybe I am.

I think we're talking about microdosing now, right?

Microdosing is helpful, but microdosing does not create the surge in neuroplasticity that a significant— If you go to Johns Hopkins University, Roland Griffiths, he's one of the lead researchers in the world on psychedelics and their power to help with PTSD and depression, has a TED Talk out about that. Talks about 80% of people who have done— and it's a 2 to 3 gram dose of psilocybin, so it's not a microdose. Microdose is much smaller, but typically closer to a 3 gram dose, 2.5 gram dose maybe. 80% of participants said it was one of the most profound experiences of their life. And then people generally, people who have done— and they're testing, they're doing like 2 or 3 A lot of different tests out there and trials, but people that do 2 or 3 doses— and, and this is a guided, also paired with therapy, so psychedelic-assisted therapy— people that had treatment-resistant depression, meaning no cure, nothing's working, somewhere in the ballpark of 67 to 80%, depends on which trial and all that, have their symptoms go away. Up to 2 years later, because the trial, the testing, or the data tracking ends in 2 years. So it could be way beyond that. And I found that happen with my own— my wife. That's how I got into this, was like, hey, nothing's working. Um, she's battling complex PTSD. She's a 3-time suicide survivor. Uh, oh wow. Like, I don't want— I'm not going to go down that path. Like, SSRIs are just going to numb her. They're useful in some contexts. And I didn't want to lose my wife. I was like, no, I gotta freaking figure this out.

Yeah. So are we talking more of like an ayahuasca type situation?

So here I should clarify, to create that rapid burst of neuroplasticity, usually a single dose of psilocybin. MDMA is also very easy and gentle. It's not a psychedelic. Now, MDMA is not easy to find that's safe. Ayahuasca is brilliant as well, but you really— that's a master plant and it takes you to— Dr. Terence Marie has actually done it as well. But in guided experiences, ideally with a trained, certified, or trained guide. But the week after you do a dose— now, not a microdose. Microdosing will help you incrementally, but a week after you do a dose, your brain is like flooded with neuroplasticity. It's like you're a 4-year-old again. Think how easily 4-year-olds learn, right? And they're in Johns Hopkins. It's a Tim Ferriss podcast recently that I listened to talks about that they're actually testing on stroke victims now so that they can accelerate how quickly they learn, relearn to walk, their language skills come back, and they're noticing a dramatic improvement when after someone has a stroke, then giving them a psychedelic dose. And then— and there now it's early stages, it's on smaller trial, right? Then you always start out smaller trial before it rolls to bigger, uh, data set. And huge, because it creates that surge of neuroplasticity. So like, it's like your brain is now coated with fresh powder. So then what I do is I couple that and I do NLP to rewire your subconscious so I can rebuild belief structures. I can rebuild— I have another client, his marriage, he's very successful in his career, he wanted to show up with more love and connection with his, with his, um, wife and children. And we did the psilocybin, and then at the same time we're rewiring his subconscious afterwards, before, so that, man, And literally his wife sent me a text a week later, unprompted, on Instagram. I didn't even know she followed me. I didn't even know who she was. And it's like, Mike, my husband is showing up. He's a whole different man. Whatever you are doing, keep doing. You've, you've— my, my husband is pouring into us in a way I've never seen again. I have butterflies again. And me and my, and our boys, we can't help but pour it back into him.

Dude, this is, this is something that you can tell when you start talking about this, I kind of lit up. Yeah, because this is something that I've been thinking about for quite some time. Yeah, right. My brother-in-law Jonah told me about ayahuasca. I had no fucking clue what it was, and I'm like, all right, that sounds intense. But then as I start thinking about and, and really diving some self-reflection into certain traumas that I have, certain belief sticking points that I have that, that may— that are definitely holding me back in, in my business, in my show, and, and just overall in general. Like, this is becoming more and more interesting to me because, I mean, I've started trying to find ayahuascas here in Florida. Like, I know there's one in Orlando. And, um, so this is something that I, I, I keep telling my wife, I'm like, babe, yeah, I'm really feeling led to do this. Um, but then I'm like super scared to do it too, you know. Um, I don't think it's— I don't think it's I'm afraid to release the feelings and, and feel the those, those emotions. I think for what scares me is the actual feeling of the actual psilocybin or MDMA or whatever it is, right? Um, that, that kind of scares me. Um, but dude, this is something that I'm really interested in.

Yeah. And, and dude, if the traumas and trapped energy— nothing. Now it's, it's got to be paired with intentionality, which you would be proceeding with intentionality. And it also, I would say, with a guide or with— obviously if you do ayahuasca, you're going to have a shaman type. But yeah, but I was sure— I don't think you— what I would suggest or encourage is starting with a psilocybin experience. This is much gentler, and it's, it's going to help clear up some stuff before you get to ayahuasca. Is intense. It's right. It's, it's, it's great, but you also really want to make sure that you got a great guide. With ayahuasca.

Yeah. Have you done that?

I'm doing it later this year, but I'm going to go. I'm literally going to one of the best guides in the world.

Oh, wow. Okay.

Yeah, yeah. It's called Blue Morpheo. It's in Peru. That's the place I'm going to go. It's recommended by Oprah, a bunch of other— he was on the Ben Greenfield Podcast, Hamilton Southern. So, I can send you some link. Heck, you can join us if you want.

Dude, that'd be kind of cool, man. I have to do the psilocybin thing before that though, right? Yeah. And so with some of your— you know, you mentioned your clients. Do you— when you're going through the dosing of the 2.5 grams, 3 grams of psilocybin, are you doing this in person with your— oh, okay, cool.

Yeah.

So they fly out to you or you fly out to them? And how does that work so people listening can wrap their mind around and possibly reach out to you for some advice and hopefully work with you?

Yeah, so I mean, obviously we have to check for safety. The two main things with any psychedelic is, and this is LSD, psilocybin, ayahuasca, etc., is you got to make sure if you battle schizophrenia or bipolar or any psychotic episodes, you don't want to do that. There's other ways. MDMA is safe generally still because it doesn't take you in that altered state. But then the trusted guide, this is also do not do those things alone and without a guide, especially for your first time. Because it can be scary because of the loss of control. It's literally the substance will take you into a different state where you're going to see— it's a beautiful state. That's why 80% of respondents have said or participants at Johns Hopkins have said, "Hey, this was one of the most profound experiences in my life." But it can be scary because you're just, especially if you battle control issues, Um, which some people do, but, um, but what happens is you, you know, you, you don't eat for about 4 or 5 hours beforehand. Um, you set some intentions, you have a music playlist, you have a headset, and, uh, I, you know, I, um, eye mask, and you have got to have the right setting. So setting, intention, and, and also I would say the other thing is, is I've had different blends certain blends have a different effect. And I've got one blend in particular that I use, and every single time it's a beautiful experience. But also, sometimes when you do these experiences, some trauma, some shame can come up. Like, one session I wept. I literally— my wife is over here, she's having this journey connecting with her spirit self that is saying, hey, Quit trying to leave Earth early. You're meant to be here. Your art is going to see the light of day. So it really was like helping her integrate back into— and this is just like 7 months ago, um, and so it's very healing for her to say, hey, you know what, the suicidal ideation is, is not where you should be going. And it helped her really make a massive shift. And then that same evening, I'm having an experience where I'm seeing the trauma and the sadness and the grief of my dad pass through and my brother, and I literally wept.

Wow, that's heavy.

And then I felt— but at the end, I felt this lightness. You know, if you think of your traumas, think of your fears, think of your anxieties, it's like you're carrying around bags of bricks. Each one of them represents another bag of bricks. And so as you shed them, you feel lighter and lighter. Doesn't mean you're done, Like, I still have some bags of bricks to shed.

Sure.

But I am so much lighter than I was 6 months ago, than I was 9 months ago, than I was a year ago. My wife, same.

Dude, that's awesome, man. I— it's funny, I, I go to— when you were saying like, hey, if you battle bouts of schizophrenia or if you're bipolar, and I'm just sitting there thinking like, dude, I'd be the— I'd be that poor guy that didn't know he had bipolar and fucking take this shit and be all fucked up. I don't think I have bipolar disorder, but, uh, But no, man, like, I think this is— I'm glad we went down this road because this is something truly that's been speaking to me for quite some time. And it's nice to get more information about it. And now I know where the fuck to go.

Yeah.

I mean, be quite honest, you know, because there are some things like I think everybody— I think talk therapy is good, right? I mean, to a certain point. For me, I think there's some deep-rooted, like you would say, neurological pathways that need to be rewired. And And it, I think it's hard to do in talk therapy because it's near impossible. You're in that conscious point, you're just judging yourself, man. You know?

Yeah. Cognitive behavioral therapy, which is what most of us experience when we do talk therapy, it's very helpful for creating awareness and it does help for, let's call it little t traumas, but some of the bigger T, it's not going to rewire your neurological pathways. It's to— they're too seared in. It's like there's a superhighway in your brain and your nervous system and how you respond. Uh, somatic psychotherapy, which is what Dr. Peter Levine and others, uh, teach, is, is more helpful for some of that deeper work, I've found. Um, and then also Dr. Richard Schwartz and his Internal Family Systems, or parts therapy. In NLP, we call it parts therapy, where you're working with these different parts and alter egos and getting them playing well. But if you really have serious significant trauma or PTSD, uh, there— I haven't seen anything close to the power of psychedelics safely done, or MDMA type, or MDMA-related substances, whether psychedelic-assisted individual session for really deep traumatic work or ceremonial sessions, which is like what Dr. Terry Marie and, you know, I've done as well. And then also MDMA or EMDR, uh, if I'm saying it right. Uh, but man, you got it. It's like you need that neuroplasticity. And the craziness is, is there's so much, so many breakthroughs happening in that space right now that if you're battling mental health or been through a setback in your business and it's just like a cloud over you, you can shake that cloud off so much faster and so much more effectively with the help of safely using those substances.

That's really cool, man. I know there's a lot of people out there that aren't really privy to this information that they want to demonize this substance so much. But, I mean, the reality is, man, as long as you don't abuse it, I mean, this shit helps people, man. I saw a segment. I don't know if you saw this. It was on, I think it was ESPN, and it was a bunch of former football players. Did you see this?

I haven't, no.

Oh, shit, dude. I need to find the link and I'll send it to you. But they, all these big retired linemen, like macho men, right? Got together and they're at this retreat and they took this potion or whatever. And I mean, you see 6'7", 380-pound dudes on the ground, like wallowing, crying or laughing hysterically. And they were all healing. Like, this is a real thing. Like, this is something that I, I think, you know, needs to be widely accepted, and I, and I believe it is now. I mean, to be quite honest, everybody— it's coming. Yeah.

I mean, and, and you look at the, you know, military is using it, um, they're hugely endorsing it because 22 veterans a day are committing suicide, right? So a lot of the, a lot of the retreats and different things that I've been a part of, Navy SEALs are there. Former guys, you know, these, these type, these type of hardcore dudes. That's why, man, the huge endorsement for that because it's about the only thing working like that gets rid of that treatment-resistant PTSD or deep depression. It's— I mean, it gave us real hope and, and it really worked.

I love hearing that about your wife, man. That makes me happy that there's some peace there that, that she like even just for her, I mean, more so for her, right? But then also you and being, you know, not— you don't want to lose your wife, right? But I can't even imagine, you know, having those thoughts that she had because I've never had them. Right. But I know how powerful they are. And to be connected with her spirit self saying like, hey, no, stop it. You know, you have a lot left. That is, that is, that is a testament to the great things that this can do. And you've mentioned a couple of times to make sure you have a guy, but not only a guy, but a really good one, right? Where is there some resources that people can go look at? And just because, I mean, hey, listen, man, you can go to the internet and everybody can make themselves look awesome. Shit, we see it on Instagram all the time, right? It's like, you know, it's like, dude, be honest. Like, the first time you message me, I'm like, oh, I don't know who he is, right? I don't know who he is. I thought you might be another one of those people wanting to grow my account. You get them all the time too. Yeah. It's like, oh, your engagement's really low.

Low.

Yeah, because I'm not paying for it. Like, of course it's low. Yeah, it's the way it's set up. So how could one, you know, do their due diligence to make sure that they are putting themselves in the safest and most educational way possible?

Yeah, uh, make sure that it comes from a recommended source. That's first, the first, uh, step. Secondly, make sure you're, you're feeling called to it. Like, I think the plant medicines call you to it. Um, and I've, I felt called to it out of curiosity. And then the second, you know, with the source side, like the source, for example, where I get our stuff is, is from a very competent naturopathic doctor out of Costa Rica. So he's been in the space, he's one of the pioneers in the space for like 30 years. And his, his blend, like, you know, they put the, the medicine in and it's blended with reishi and lion's mane and and other, you know, adapted, adaptogenic mushrooms with dark chocolate. I had to go to speech therapy when I was little. Some of those hard words still get me. But, uh, um, so the blends are really important and, and the source. And then don't work with someone that hasn't done it themselves because it's really hard to guide someone that hasn't been through those journeys. Um, and then The other thing is, is do some research on it. Like, I love like Dr. Matthew Johnson out of Johns Hopkins, a lot of YouTube videos where he talks about this. Dr. Roland Griffiths. Tim Ferriss actually has been one of the main, main pioneers. He's put over $10 million in this.

Really?

Yeah. Yeah.

Wow.

And he's helped drive the legalization of it. Because of the effects that he saw and the potential he saw. MAPS organization, maps.org. Also, Third Wave Podcast is great if you want to learn more about different elements. There's also ketamine. Ketamine's legal. It's not as powerful as psilocybin and certainly not as powerful as ayahuasca, but it's still really helpful. But the greatest benefit people have with these experiences is when there's a trained guide or therapist with them. Yeah, just doing the substance alone, you'll still get some effects and still can be a very positive experience, but it's when you have both.

Yeah, I wouldn't be inclined to do it just on myself. To me, it'd be like, all right, I'm just using the substance. Yeah, you know, I don't know, I can't guide myself through this, right? I would want somebody there. I would imagine most people would want somebody there that can guide them through, or it could, it could turn into a waste. You want to make sure that you get the most out of that experience. So Yeah, man. I mean, I feel you on that one, right? It's just like when you start working at a new sport, like, you know, you were a baseball player. I was a baseball player, right? I got lessons. I had guides. I had so— sometimes I had too many freaking guides, right? It's like, okay, how many fucking— like, where do I put this piece of the puzzle? This coach said that, that coach said this. So, but I just think, you know, again, something that if people are interested in it, guys listening, if you're interested in something like this, you need to go and find my boy Mike. you know, on social media websites. All of his stuff is going to be connected to the show notes, but I want you guys to feel comfortable in reaching out to him and learning a little bit more about what he does. Because I, I was introduced, uh, to Mike by, um, by, by Taryn Marie, just by way of Taryn Marie. And right away I knew he was a good guy when, when, you know, he said her name. And, um, you know, it— so, so check him out, truly check him out and see what he's got going on. I would love for, uh, I would love to meet you in person, and hopefully we could do that soon. That'd be awesome.

Yeah, bro, that'd be great. And maybe it's an ayahuasca retreat or—

dude, that'd be sick. I gotta start small, man. You said I gotta start at the other thing first. I don't want to go straight to, you know, it's like going 0 to 100.

Yeah, right. There's a couple things I'll mention, like the psilocybin, and then also there's this other experience called a heart ceremony, which is an MDMA-like experience that you get flooded with love and joy. And what I'll mention on that, and I'm not the practitioner and the guide on this, so I just participate. But the cool aspect of it is every single marriage that has been through this, including my own, we were not, and often not in a good spot. Good marriages have come in and been like a surge ahead. But like us in October when we did it for the first time, not in a good spot. My wife was in another depression spiral. I had resentment and frustration around it. I was like, man, why can't she freaking hold her crap together? Yeah. And, and I was like, I can't do my work. I can't take care of our toddler and my wife and do my work. And everything's gonna be a struggle as long as my wife is in a depression spiral. And within minutes of the medicine kicking in, I'm just flooded with love and joy. And, and I was like, I saw how much she wanted to be over the struggle too. To. And I was flooded with empathy, and then it started rewiring my communication to a deeper state of love for her. And that's every single marriage we've taken through that process, unbelievable results. But also just individuals, the joy and the heart connection and the release of some of the trauma and the bags of bricks that we carry around. So, I mentioned that as an option too.

Them? Um, being flooded with empathy. Yeah, that right there is the key. If we led with more empathy on a day-to-day basis, would we judge our partners the way we judge them? Probably not. Would they judge us the way they're judging us? No, probably not, right? My wife is an empath. She is. Yeah, I mean, I mean, wow, that, that shit's heavy sometimes, man, you know? And I don't, I don't know how to deal with it because I'm, I'm a weird type of empath. Like, things bother me differently. Like, she can see something on the news and it'll like, like it's happened to her and she's in fucking tears. And me, I go, yeah, yeah, okay. And then I, and I'm like, yeah, okay, whatever. And I'm like, that's not your life. You don't have to deal with that. But there's me, you know, 2 weeks later going over the, like, over a bridge and worrying about it collapsing because of what happened. And so I internalize it and I'm like, like, now I'm afraid of bridges.

Yeah, right.

You see my point? Like, that's the, that's the weird thing about me. So it's almost like, man, she's got to figure it out. She's gonna feel it up front, deal with those feelings, and she's good. I'm sitting here judging, like, yeah, why are you so beat up about this? But then I'm paralyzed 3 weeks later. Yeah, yeah, you know.

Yeah, yeah. And, and the cool thing, here's what I would say for anyone listening, is you go through this this healing experience, I would recommend Peter Levine's work, also Dr. David Hawkins and Maps of— it's Maps of Consciousness and Power Versus Force. But as you learn to process and release a lot of this stuff, then it doesn't stick with you. It flows through you. Like fear, emotion, doubt, whatever, it's supposed to flow through you, not get stuck in you for the next decade. And, and you're supposed to be filled with love, but if you're, if you're all gunked up and emotionally constipated with traumas and doubts and fears and worthlessness and self-worth issues and all that, the good stuff's not going to stick. It's kind of like if I take a glass of water, it's got some dirt in it, adds more water, the, the new water that I added just got dirty.

Yeah, that, that's, that's deep, man. And I want to land the plane on that because that is a concept that I believe everybody can really grab onto. It's we go through these daily struggles and we're holding on to all this gunk, like you said, and then when something good comes along, it's, it's, it's cloudy. Yeah, right. You don't appreciate it as much. So, man, look, dude, I just appreciate you so much, Mike. I'm grateful we met. I'm grateful we, we got to do this show on such a quick turnaround. And, um, you know, I want to remind everybody listening to please share this episode out with somebody that you feel needs it. Leave us, leave us a comment or review on Apple or Spotify. We'd appreciate it. And with that being said, Mike, dude, thanks again, dude. And, you know, I can't wait to connect with you in person, brother. It's been, it's been great.

Likewise, my friend. Thanks for having me on.

Anytime, brother. Take care.