Live with Minotaur Trading Systems, October 31 2025

Show with Minotaur Trading Systems. It's going to be myself, Costa, the CEO of Minotaur and Sebastian cto. We're going to go through weekly update. There's a lot to talk about today because the price actions is pretty interesting right now. So we'll dive into that. We're going to be answering your questions, we're going to look at some indicators. We'll probably be covering us. We've got a good read on the liquidity heat maps as well. So we can take a look at what's actually driving the price now and then also look trading system on that we're currently using. So we can go over those. The white beardy man is in Italy actually, so that the time zones are completely. I can show that actually. Where is the white beating at today? Yeah, he's in Italy. He's for us to find a new time to do this. So we'll try and get on a show that we can do on the Quantanami channel with Giovanni. But we just wanted to keep up doing our own show as well because I know a lot of people want to see what we're doing at Minotaur.

So.

What we can start off with, I think there's actually a few indicators I want to talk about and can.

Take a look at them first because.

I think they're really cool to talk about. First one is the Fear and Greed index and we're just discussing this together. So maybe give us your thoughts. And green index being at 29, there's a bit of a whistling in the background. Is that you or me?

No, it'll probably be me. Hopefully it doesn't last for too long. Is it bad?

Is that. It's not too bad.

What is it? Okay, hopefully it's. I'm pretty sure it's a vacuum guy. Sorry about that.

I thought he mentioned something. Yeah. Anyway, cool.

No, no, no. Just be my partner cleaning the house. So it's interesting with the Fear and Greed index because it, you know, it's one of those things that's historically very accurate and it works like for a reason. Right. It doesn't just get brought up, you know, because it's been traditionally used kind of in more legacy markets. But. But if you guys actually go and back test this, which I have done, it's incredibly accurate, specifically on Bitcoin.

Right.

And in my opinion, what it's really, really good at doing more than anything else. Obviously it gives us a clear sentiment of whether the market is fearful, whether the market has greed. But where people. I Guess don't use it the right way is that, you know, I think it's important to understand that bitcoin has shown us time and time again that, you know, you ideally do want to be buying and you want to be in these positions where you're going to be bullish on the market when everyone else is bearish. And, and this plays out like so often it's not even funny. So the reality is, you know, if we actually look at what bitcoin's doing, it's not like we've got fear. And the market's at 50k, right? The market's still at around 108k here and we had a very, very bad sell off the other day, but really it was only 18% in price. And what that's actually done is it swung the whole market into fear. And in my opinion, this is kind of a classic pattern of if bitcoin had sold off a massive amount, I'd be really concerned and been in fear. But the truth is it hasn't and it's actually holding the 100k level very well. And now fear is at play, which means there's a buying opportunity, typically with bitcoin. And it plays out time and time again. The good news is we have fear and prices $108,000,000. Right. So that gives me a lot of confidence to say that although the majority of the market might be bearish, history tells us that you don't want to be doing what the majority of the market is doing because they lose all the time. Right. So it's, it's an important thing to think about.

Yeah, I, I agree. I want to take a look at this today because I'm actually of the mind that I think this is it. It's much more of a bottom signal right now than any kind of top signal. I know there are a lot of bears out there, but we're going to look at some stuff today to show you why and we're going to look at some things actually outside of what we usually do because I think that they're interesting. We're going to look at those, why we're seeing bigger bottom signals rather than top signals. And then we'll also look at the liquidity maps and, and which is still consistent with our long term, you know, bullish bias on the higher time frames. Right. On the, on the lower time frames, anything can happen in the short term, but on the high time frames we have a really bullish buy. So let's take a look at another few things I'D like to comment on a little bit different but this is an interesting one. This is the, this is the Rolex index. Have you seen this one before, Sebastian?

No. Explain this to me. I've even heard of this.

Yeah. So basically this is the, the, an index for the price of Rolexes right. In the secondhand market. And as you can see that the index peaks at the same time as the crypto market peak. Last time it's down to 20 levels. Right. So you know, the Rolex market indicated the secondary market performance of Rolex watches. All right, now like jokes aside, I wanted to bring that up for a particular reason. Right. And, and the reason is this is let's take a look at the net unrealized profit and loss. So right now we're seeing around 49%. Right. So what that means is that the, the net unrealized profit is not as high as it has been in previous tops, which is around 70%. Around that 70% range if we go back to 2017 it peaks at around 71%. We go here, this is a little bit, but I think this is a little bit too far back in price. But the last one was actually, you can see that 78% how high that was. And then this one here, tops at around 70. So again the net realized profits are still quite low, which means that you're not going to have huge whales dumping on the market and cycling back into stable coins for a prolonged enough period of time to create that bare market effect. So we can have these dump offs and to come back to that, not really a joke, but when people take profits, what do they do? Right, they go and buy Rolexes. This is just an interesting correlation, not causation, but we're just looking at a few things a little bit out of the ordinary to take some of that fear away because we are at really, really big fear levels. So I want to show you why we're personally still have a bullish long term bias based on a few of these things as well. And the biggest thing for us is we'll come off this one and we'll go and post your comments. By the way, if you got any comments about any of those, it's good to get some interaction on these calls.

Yeah, and I'll make some important point, I'll let you keep going.

I don't know.

Yeah, because I've got an important point about fear that I think, you know, needs to be drove home. And you know, there's a reason we are so calm almost all the time in this market, because fear comes from not actually having a plan if what you want to happen doesn't play out. That's where fear comes from. Right. And there's a lot of fear because the way people trade is if price falls to this level, I'm going to lose, or if price goes here, I'm going to get liquidated, or if this happens, I'm in trouble. Well, when you have a plan for what can happen in either direction, that will cull a lot of the fear you experience. Because for us, I think, you know, I explained it earlier, if fear is always a buying opportunity for you and you strongly believe in what you're buying now, now, to, to trump fear, you need conviction.

Right?

Right. That is something you do need. But for us, we've designed a system and strategy that if the market doesn't do what we want, it's actually a huge opportunity for us to yield. And if the market goes up, fantastic, we're going to make money as well. So the point is, you know, if you're biased and one directional and always kind of only have your ducks in a place where you can succeed, if the market goes up, of course you're going to have fear when the market falls. Right? But you need to put yourself in a position where you really need to ask yourself, you know, you should be moving in the direction of what the masses are. And when Bitcoin falls in price, it's a really, really easy way to understand that, you know, this is an opportunity and this is the mindset you need to have to have success in this market. Not, I'm not just talking about trading algorithms. You know, Warren Buffett talks about it all the time. He talks about understanding that, you know, the reason that works is because you want to find things that are incredible and you want to buy it when everyone else loses conviction. And that's, that's how he's amassed most of his wealth. So, you know, you need to move against the grain and you need to believe, you know, this, this isn't a market you can be fickle in. Because if you're fickle in this market, you're going to get chopped up and you're going to lose all the time. So, you know, don't be afraid just because everyone else is afraid. Do research and look into what's actually happening. Because remember, guys, like I said, Bitcoin's $108,000, right? It's not 70k, it's not 60k, it's not 50k. And typically, when we've seen Mass fear. In the past this has been after bitcoin's been obliterated. Right. So think about that, right? We have fear and Bitcoin's at 108k, so there's nothing to be scared of. And if price continues to fall, we'll buy more. It's not an issue.

Right, right.

It's just making sure that things are set up in a way where you know, if bitcoin falls to 100k you're going to lose everything. Well then that's a problem. Right. And, and it's important to put yourself in that state of mind.

Yeah. I think to add to that is you need to be diversified in your outcomes. Right. So if you're simply just buying and holding bitcoin that's fine, but you are non diversified in the outcome. Right. You, you need to have, it needs to go up. The algorithm on the other hand is something that's going to also get you returns when it's going down. Now again it doesn't take away from any kind of buy and holding that you do. It's just another tool. And that kind of tool, like you know, Jamal saying here, the bot makes me feel so cozy when the market is going down. That's because you're making money when it's going down.

Right.

You're, you're hedged effectively. Now bitcoin goes up ultimately that's when we make the most money. Right. We're not relying on the bot to out for form bitcoins buy and hold if we do great. But bitcoin, bitcoin is appreciating. Like we know following the power law trend, like that's really all you need. The body is going to just add fuel to that. Right. And it's also going to give you a lot of, you know, some of those returns when the market's going down as well. So you know, as you can see it, it really makes you so calm and relaxed because you know, whatever happens is you're going to be generating some kind of returns from it. So I wanted to have a look. Here's a question for you actually Sebastian. Someone said I'm going to incorporate the questions as we go because I think it makes it a bit more interesting. How does fear translate into price going up? I agree with long term trend being up, but just want your thoughts on fear to price.

Yeah, it's an interesting question and hopefully I understand this and answer it correctly, but I don't think necessarily that like you know, driving it. I think what happens is price moves and then the index moves after it. Right. So the index is tracking what's happening and it gives you a sentiment of what the market is doing. That's why after a big sell off we go into fear. You're not going to be in fear when the market's pumping up because the overall sentiment of everyone is bullish. But one thing I'll tell you guys about this market and a lot of markets, but it is the most fickle market in the world. And I see this all the time. So what you'll typically see, and I'll actually show you guys later on this call how fear and greed plays into liquidity. Because it's very, very interesting. But the psychology behind this for most people is when bitcoin's price is up, everyone's bullish and everyone's happy. When bitcoin's price is down, everyone's bearish and everyone's miserable. Right. And you can't win having that psychology. So the way I really think you go. Costa.

No, I was going to say the people that are the algos are the ones that are buying it. The market makers are the ones that are buying it. Know this is the thing, it's that the fear and greed is coming from retail. That's where the, that's what's driving that fear down. Exactly. And what's driving the price up is the liquidity. It's the speculation that occurs in the futures markets and the liquidity is building up and the price is being moved by the market makers and the liquidity and the people balancing the books. That's what's going on. So we've got retail sentiment creates the fear the price is going to move up based on liquidity. That's being taken.

Right.

People are shorting, shorting, shorting. And we're going to, we'll take a look at that shortly as well because yeah, that's.

There is like two, there's like I always like to think about it like that people don't see it this way, but there really is two markets right now. It's the same market. Everyone's trading bitcoin, but you've got people who are liquidity providers, market making strategies, book balancing strategies. Now people who do this, they win all the time because they inherently understand the psychology of the other market, which is the retail traders playing the market. And the retail traders feed directly into what the market makers and liquidity providers need to have a robust business model. And there's one side that is always profitable and there's one side that's not. And that, that's kind of actually how this market is. That's the truth of it.

Yeah, that's right. Let's jump into the algorithm because we actually took profit on, on our larger TP and I wanted to show that because we haven't looked at it for a while. Well, here we go. So we entered the trade and around the 7th of October. So why would you run this one? Well, this one's really good. It's more of the, the swing bot. It's got 5% TP, so it's going to be a little bit slower. But when it does take profit, it's going to take a really nice profit There. That one's got a 5% and obviously with 1, 2, 3, 4 safety orders and a base order, that's going to be a really nice payday. This is going to, you know, it does take time when the market's moving this slowly to hit those, those 5% TPS. But it's really good to be honest. We've got a few seven figure clients that are using the 5% TP and maybe S can talk about those. They love running this because it's just nice and slow. It, you know, it hits a big payday. It's very easy to track these positions. There's not too much activity. You know, it's a great bot. It's a little bit slow for people, for smaller accounts. When, when this thing, when this kind of behavior happens, people become a impatient. But again when it does take profit, it does deliver. And you can see that here and then straight away it's entering into new positions as well. So it's not resting, it's not doing nothing, it's just waiting for the right time. So again, this is a setup some people use. Like I said, it seems to be more popular with people with seven figures or more though.

The reality is though like it, it is just as profitable regardless of the account size. I really believe that the speed of it is always a perception of the user. Right. And I think it comes from a couple of different things. I think one of the first issues I see in this space is people wanting to come into the market and get an understanding of how much can I make every month, what's the monthly return. But this isn't a rental property. We're trading a financial market. And financial markets you need to look at returns based off of averages typical annually. Right. So if you want to have success, you got to put yourself in the right state of mind to run something like this. The Reason seven figures or the reason people who have seven figures like this in our community is because they can set it up and go about what they normally do and come back and turn profit. They don't care if it's only taken X amount of trades per month or they don't care if it's been in a position sometimes for a month or two. Because to them it doesn't matter. What matters is am I making profit, is this strategy profitable on an annualized basis, am I getting yield? And, and when you're in that state of mind and every time bitcoin falls, you know you're going to be in a position where your take profit is going to make a really good yield. It's, it's a very calm way to trade the market and that's what you need. You need to be calm. On the flip side, you can have people who chase activity and want to see hundreds of trades and be in the market and monitoring it all the time. But I really believe that's one of the worst things you can do. You know, I get being a trader and loving watching the charts, I do that myself. But you have to get yourself to a position where you know if the chart is driving your emotion or if Bitcoin's price falling is making you feel miserable, like you're doing something wrong. That's the truth. So you know, this, this setup gives you so much space to breathe and that's why I think, you know, it's, it's amazing for what it does and the trade off to that is you have to be patient with it. But patience in this market, guys, it's the best thing you can learn, I promise you. Don't be afraid of patience. It's the biggest weapon you have.

I agree. And we can also take a look at the. So this is more the, this on a, this is the 10 minute settings, but I've got it on a 15 minute because it just lets us look at it a bit better. So the entries are a little bit different. And again this algo is like a Swiss army knife. So every setup can be slightly different. So if you are a user and you're looking at this and saying mine doesn't look like that, that's completely normal because they're all calibrated a little differently based on your entries and based on position sizing and deviations and all that. But this is as close as possible on a 15 of the 10 minute settings we're rolling out. This is performing really well as you can see here. Look that trade, if you actually compare this to the trade on the 5% DP, it's almost exactly the same. The difference is that you just would have collected way more money on that. See that? This is like a one and a half actually tp. So this is quite active. That's why we got a lot of activity in this range here that the other one didn't get. However, when we've entered the larger position size with way more volume, what we're going to take is a 5% profit on a much larger position. So that's the reason why the slower, larger TP can ultimately outperform something that's more active. However, it does require patience. It does require you to understand the system and just kind of let it sit there and do its thing. And like I said, it does seem to seem to be a better fit for people that have seven figures or more, again, for whatever reasons. Right. But this is performing really well. Like, this also looks really good to the eye because if we go through, we can actually see that this is just constantly entering, exiting positions. And right now, you know, we took profit. And what I like is it didn't take more than almost a day and a half to enter into its new positions. And you can see that it's really buying up here already. And we've had a nice. I think this is a bounce off the. Someone just said this is a bounce off the 200 moving average. Is that around sound about right?

Yeah. I can also show some kind of structure around why it's bouncing. But yeah, basically the reality is since we had the dip the other day, we posted a low at like 100k. Right. And what happened after that was we had a run up and then we had a pullback. And then that pullback is. So you can see it here on the chart. Right. If you have a look where that dump happened. Right.

Yeah.

What we can see is after that, if you'll notice, the lows that have been posted are actually higher. So what that means is we have a rally and we have a pullback, but then on the pullback, the low is higher than the one before, as you can see. So this, although, and it's easy to look at it and go, oh my God, we're bearish. But actually, like, that actually is a bullish pattern. We're continuously posting higher lows as well, which indicates why we're bouncing now. Right. It makes sense. So definitely, you know, Price, it's not predictable in my opinion. You can get a clear idea of where it can Go in either direction. But you know, it's about understanding that most people get lulled into the day to day movements of bitcoin. That's, that's where they get screwed. Because you know, they're looking at this and trying to get as much yield out of it as possible rather than playing a slow, long game where the goal is always profit and capital protection and preservation. And I think this strategy in particular is a master at that, you know. Yeah, it's interesting how, you know, all you need to do is just be patient, but people really struggle with that and it just shows the psychology of the market. It shows how these volatile markets lull you into making mistakes.

Yeah, absolutely. And what I want to show here, for anyone who's thinking about, you know, the bottom, how it works, what's really cool, as you can see, draw here, we entered the market here at this point at 122. We exited here at around 115. Right. So we're literally making money as the market goes down from 122 to 115. We're taking profit at 115. Right. So long only strategy making money as the market goes down. And then you see we've re entered here going down this way and the take profit now is 113. So what you can see here is that we're able to literally walk the price down. Wick off cycle means it will be a rally at some point. We're going to take profit and then we walk the price down. And what I'm trying to say is that if the price continues to crash, this is what Minotaur is going to do. Right. Just to give you an example, I'm really good at drawing, but let me show you. Yeah. Here in theory it's going to go like this, let's just say, and then go, go bang, take profit there. And then what do we do? We just keep walking. This price down keeps crashing. I wish I could do this a bit faster, but I think you get my point. Let's get us down to, you know, 81k. We've taken profit here at around, you know, 97. And then price goes down further and then bang, we hit here. Effectively what we can do is we're walking the price all the way down to zero and we can also all the way up to, you know, one million plus. And that's the power of this strategy. By being defensive mostly this is what we're able to do. Right. If you had an offensive strategy, what tends to happen is you enter trades with stop losses Enter trades with stop loss and those kind of algorithms, the wheels tend to fall off because what eventually happens is you just get chopped up. Whereas this strategy is defensive and it's prepared for this kind of action. But if this doesn't happen, we're still going to print when this happens. So that's just a real simple description of our strategy. And the reason why we work with the Power Law and Giovanni is because this is able. I'll just stop sharing that because I've made it so messy. The reason we work with Giovanni, and I'm going to bring one of his that he's not because he could show you guys this and he's much better about talking about mine. But the reason is this power law support. So Giovanni has provided us with the roadmap and the keys to managing our risk. So again, you know, we're using this purple line to manage our risk. So what I just drew you on the charts looks something like this, right? So we always calibrate them to deploy funds all the way down to power. And again, that doesn't mean we would get wrecked. It would just be the first line of defense. And as traders, there's lots of strategies that you can do. You could initiate a stop loss at that point, you could do a hedge in order to create a sort of a pillow, so it just becomes neutralized. You could use options to cover the position. There's lots and lots and lots of things that you could do. But remember, if we're getting out on these rallies, we actually don't need to defend the Power Law. The only time we need to defend the Power Law is if this happens again. This is so unlikely, you know, and, and basically Sebastian spends all day and night running simulations and testing settings that survive the worst situation that can happen. And it hasn't happened historically, but we basically don't assume it's not going to happen. We're assuming can happen. And that's how we. Exactly.

And that, that, that, that's the other thing. We, we actually assume that it can happen. We can, we assume that, like the worst can happen, right? So you got to be prepared for everything. And that's why we're calm when we're on these calls. Because for us, where Bitcoin is right now is not even guys like, you know, yeah, we're looking at, yeah, we're.

Looking at 45k in a straight line. And that's when we're going to start to sweat, right? If this, if this just walks down like this, you know, we're not even worried because by the time we have a crash down to Palo spot, we probably entered here, which means we can probably survive all the way down to 22k here. This is the reason why this works so well. Yeah, yeah, it should start.

And I made that point before. Right. Like you're only fearful when, when price is doing what you don't want. You're getting scared because something bad is going to happen. But when, when, if price falling is what you need to make money, it's very difficult to be upset.

Yeah, I agree with that. I agree. So yeah, if you've got any questions about the strategy, post them down, we can discuss them. Otherwise we're going to jump into the trading difference. So I, I do like sort of discussing the, the strategy and the, the theory behind how the algorithm works because I think people need to understand our thinking behind it because that's really important, especially clients that are using it as well. But I know a lot of you are here to see what the liquidity maps look like. So I want to do the best I can at talking you through this. But you can kind of see what's going on the 15 minute. So again, nothing too surprising if you're watching these charts. If you want the price to go up, what you need is your traders to stop using so much leverage. Leverage because what they're doing is they're really just sucking the price down because like these huge leverage positions at 50k and 100k as you can see the last ones are filled 111. These things is just, they're just not going to, they're not going to let these go. Right. They're gonna take this leverage out until they literally dry up everything. And I, maybe this is one of the reasons why it's full market is, is. So muted right now is because they just, you can see how, how heavily they're building up so quickly. And you know, last week we were looking at almost the same thing but you know, within minutes you know, these pools are building. Now what's happened today, you can see there's barely any of the 100x liquidity below 105. And we've taken the red hotspots here, we've taken a big chunk here. There's possibly another one down to 105. We have a look at the 50X as well. We could probably go as low as 104 if we're looking at this chart. Yeah, but that seems to be around the bottom there. What are your thoughts?

Yeah, I'm of the belief yeah, I'm of the belief personally that we're probably going to be ranging between around 100, 105k up to 120 for a little while here. Typically, I'll tell you why is that you get ranges after big moves. Now, a big move could mean a big move up or a big move down. And we just had a big move down the other day. We had the biggest liquidation event in the history of crypto. So typically when that happens, you see liquidity getting rebalanced or reset. And for that reason, I'm pretty confident we're actually going to be going sideways here for a little bit. Of course the target is up, but, you know, there's an opportunity here for the price to go sideways. And remember what sideways price action is, because I try to, you know, teach our customers all the time, be excited about sideways price action. It means something's happening. You need sideways price action to build enough liquidity for direction. Right. So it's not. It's not a bad thing. But, yeah, I'm of the belief we're probably gonna trend sideways for a little bit here.

Yeah.

But, you know, still very interesting here.

You can actually see this is not.

The top, you know. Yeah, not. Not yet anyway.

No, no. So you can see what's really interesting here is the. These shortest on 100x, there's 100. Yeah. Look at this here, that, that whip up there. It's just so as the price. This is really interesting to see. Right. As the price has taken this out my pen, is it drawing on there? Maybe I can't draw, but yeah, there we go. Yeah. As. As the price has come down and taken out these liquidity pools, these short pools have appeared on this side. This is 100x on the 15 and the market, because there's no more liquidity here left, it's whip back up and it's collected those shorts. So you can kind of see that happening in action right now. Like we're moving a 109. It's just hit the top of that pull down and we're already seeing the printing of a red candle right next to it.

So. So that's basically what psychology cost is interesting, isn't it? Because they'll wake up, right? They'll wake up. This is what people do, and this is why this works so well, is that they'll wake up, they'll see bitcoin is down, they'll go bearish, and they'll start placing short position positions because the price is down, which gives their makers all they need to take them out because they're going to go high with leverage, hot with leverage. The price is going to go back up. And then guess what, all the people that were bearish are now bullish because the price has gone back up and they're going to start going long and then price is going to go against them again. It rinse and repeat. Happens all day, all day. 247 on every time scale and that's.

How they know make money. And I think that especially on the, on the, on the lower time frame every, every move is like a roll of that roulette table in there. And the, and the, the dealers just, just taking in all the chips. And you know we can take a look at the larger maps as well here again showing a bottom of around 103. So again if it goes that far it doesn't look like much below. But if we go so you know, this is what's happening on the, on the lower time frame. We'll move out to the high time frames because we want to see what the projections look like. And that 15 minute there, Dan, that particular one, sorry that pred's in the way. This is the daily. So let's just take a look at what the daily saying. We'll move it out. Yeah. So again, not much to see here actually not too much to worry. When you see that these huge pools have already been taken out. There's this tiny little Ming here again at 105 again that that could possibly get taken out because we can see that on the 15 which it very well might then we pull out to the 10 again we're starting to see that these top pools are red hot. The fact that they're much hotter means that these contracts are much bigger. So you can see these ones here, see that total in the top right hand corner moving. When I move up and down the size of these contracts around 1520. The size of these ones 2523. So that basically what there is is there's more money up here. Right. So this is going to be a much.

And also the leverage they're using, the leverage they're using is, is higher short than long.

Yeah. So we can see on the 3x now if we add that the total is like 57000 there compared to 2022. So there's basically 2.5x 2.5x more money to be made by the price going this way and liquidating these people than for it to go this way right now. Right. So if you are an algorithm or a Market maker. What you really want to be doing is just building this up still because the more that, the more that comes into this pool, the more money you're going to make. So the longer it's going to take, the better. And then again you're going to want to whip up, you're going to wipe it out. And then of course this is going to build up and then eventually going to come down and take it. This is what, this is the point, right?

This is the point, Costa, that both players, long and short are going to lose.

Yeah, that's exactly right. So both. Yeah, correct. So what you need to be doing is you need to have some kind of price agnostic strategy that's going to make money when it goes up, make money going down. To be honest, in this, it needs to be algorithmic because 99 of this market is algorithmic. So you want to really fight a machine with a machine. You don't want to take a knife to a gunfight.

Yeah, that's right. You know, you don't want to take a musket when they've got SMGs, you know.

Yeah, you're in trouble. And what's interesting is that from that chart before is that actually lines up with the call this, you know.

Power.

Our law support, Ari Giovanni. Right. Is that the power law support is going to sit around 67k to 70k according to Giovanni's work. If we have a look here.

You.

Can see it there. Yeah, the price here, the end of that is around 60. Almost exactly. So again, I don't know, is this a crystal ball? Maybe it's the closest thing as we get to a crystal ball, but this tells a story and, and to be honest, it really doesn't make that much of a difference to us. The reason we do like talking about is because it's interesting because we look at this stuff all day and also because we're going to be rotating. Well, I'm going to be rotating some of my bitcoin into stable coins for a few reasons. By doing that I'm going to be able to have bigger algorithms and my wallet size on my algos will be a lot bigger because I'll be trading with USDT and I won't have to discount the bitcoin. And secondly, I do intend to sell at the top and buy at the bottom just in order to increase my overall bitcoin position because I don't have much bitcoin as I want and I'm pretty much a full time trader. So I'm able, I'M willing to take that risk. Again, I don't recommend that to everyone. It's definitely a strategy you can use.

Yeah. And it's. I think that's an important point. Costa is making the point that we are traders, because I want to tell everyone now, like, we are almost arguably bitcoin maxis, Right? To a degree. But. But there is, in my opinion, still some issues with being 100% a Bitcoin maxi. And the issue is this, is that you can't be so biased on bitcoin's price and belief when you're being a trader, because being a trader does, you know, you need an element of a level head to actually succeed doing that. And even directional bitcoin bias can eat you up. So although we are big believers in bitcoin, it's the only asset I spend my money on. At the same time, I'm not so blind to say that bitcoin is look like what a lot of people were saying a month ago is that bitcoin's never going under 100k. And now that we're here, everyone's now saying bitcoin's dead. So, you know, you can't be on extreme sides of the spectrum. You need conviction, you need to understand what you're doing, but you also need to understand that bitcoin can go up and it can go down. And you need to be prepared for both scenarios. And when you have that, you'll taste success without that. It's very, very difficult.

Absolutely. I've actually got a question here from Dan. He says how does the 5% take profit differ from the 7%? I can actually show. Yeah, show.

You show them. Costa, you.

No, no, you can explain it, but I'll bring it up because the. The trailing actually, so you can actually see what's happened, but you can talk through it. Seb. But here's an example.

Yeah, well, that.

That.

This is a hard exit, right? Is this a hard exit? Because it looks like it took.

No, it's a trail. You can see.

Oh, it's a trail. Okay. Sorry, I can't see that. Well, okay. Yeah, so I'll explain the difference to you. And this is the thing with our system is there's so many knobs you can twist and turn, and all of them have different effects on how you trade the market. Right. So this is the beauty in what we do as well, guys. Like, you know, really, you have a tool that you can do whatever you want with, and you can customize this to suit what you like. This is what's so empowering about this tool? Now, if you think about the key differences between a hard exit and a trailing take profit, I'll explain them to you. One is going to give you the ability to take profit as soon as your line is hit. Now there's advantages to this. The first advantage is one, you're going to be liquid in the market and you're going to have the ability to now pick up new positions at a different price. This is very important, this is what we aim for. But by setting your take profit as hard, what you're gaining is being liquid and being safe. But the trade off is you may not actually catch the whole trend. So everything in this market, including this system, right, this system isn't perfect. There's give and take for every single thing you do. If you decide to use a trailing take profit instead, the downside and what you sacrifice is that your take profit might not always hit when price touches the line. The reason is it's got a trail built in that will follow the trend for as long as possible before it reverses. So you have to ask yourself what you prefer. Would you rather get out of the market, be liquid and then look for your next trade, or would you rather capture Bitcoin's natural price movements and ride the trend for as long as possible? They both have pros, they both have cons, right? So that's the beauty about what we do, that you, you can really build this to do what you like, but it's just understanding when it comes to those things, those are the key differences. Now someone who's more of a swing style trader, who's happy to sit in positions for months at a time, like myself, I couldn't care if I was sitting in positions for months. All I care is that I'm making money, right? That, that's my mentality, but that's not the mentality of everyone. Someone who needs to see more frequency and needs to be more liquid in the market for them to feel good, they may need to run a hard take profit. And that's fine, right? It's about setting it up in a way for you to succeed. Because what helps me succeed may not help Joe succeed or Jude succeed or whoever, right? And this is the important thing, this is not, this is not a tool to follow the leader either, right? I think having a little bit of individuality and uniqueness and how you set this up can really benefit you because you need to run this for you to succeed. Not for me, not Da Costa, not for anyone else. And that's an important point.

Yeah, that's a really important point. And I double down on that, that you know, the algorithm when you become a client can be customized to how you want to play it. So this is just another one of those tools that can help you the trail. So I hope that answers your question then, Dan. Yeah, we can dive, we can dive back to the training different because the price has just gone to 110.

Yeah, I can. Whenever you're done as well, I'll share my screen after you and I'll show something that I've been looking at.

There you go. But yeah, that's a healthy.

Well, I'll show you guys. I'll actually show you guys exactly why the market's doing this right now, which should be pretty cool for everyone to see.

Let's take a look.

Let me know when you guys can see my screen. Yep, cool. So we're looking at a four hour time frame. This is a liquidity heat map, very similar to trading different. It's not as good, but it's a free indicator of trading view. So I like it. So let's, let's actually look at what's happened here, guys. As we can see, bitcoin's actually been ranging for a while. And then the other day we had this mass sell off, right? And bitcoin went from 126 down to about 101. Now the first thing you'll notice is there was hot liquidity here, right? So the price dumped because there was a lot of liquidity there and because there was a high concentration of long positions. Remember, when bitcoin's high, everyone's bullish. When bitcoin's low, everyone's bearish. So none of these long traders were actually expecting to get liquidated. The reason price actually bounced off this level, it actually goes deeper than you might understand. Now the reason price bounces after long liquidations is because all the people that are going short, that are in profit, for them to actually realize profit on their positions. People may not realize this, but when you take a short position, you actually borrow the asset from the exchange. And the only way to realize profit is to buy the underlying asset back, which is what's called a short squeeze for that. For anyone that wants to understand, this is why price pumps up. Now what's actually been happening, clear market structure. So let's have a look at this first low here, right? So this low was posted on at $100,000. Now remember, most people at this point are starting to be Bearish. But what's actually happening is we're now getting liquidity built on either side of the book. But I want to show you guys something interesting, right? This low got posted. Price pumped back up to 109k. Oh, sorry, 116k. And then price pumped back down. Now, this sideways action, it gets people really confused, but there is a pattern playing out here. Look what happens here. We get another low. But here's an important point. This low is now higher than the one before it, right? So what that actually indicates is although the market's going up and down, when we're bottoming out, it's higher than the previous one, which is a bullish structure.

Right?

And if you actually look at what's happened today, right, it's not actually magic. Price came back up again, right? Came back down. And now the low is posted higher than this one, which once again is a bullish structure. And what's price doing all of a sudden? It's running up, right? So this isn't happening at random, right? Although we have the liquidity playing out, the reality is you actually have structure here increasing. And now all the hot liquidity in the market is actually on the short side, right? Why? Why is the hot liquidity short? Because everyone's bearish. And what do you think people are doing right now? Bitcoin's down. That means people are going to be going short with massive amounts of leverage because they think the price is going to continue down. But I can tell you one thing, Once again, the market's in fear right now. So are you guys seeing how this all ties in together? When the market's in fear, you're going to get a lot of short liquidity with a lot of leverage. And then what's going to happen is the price is going to do this, it's going to take this out, and then everyone's going to be bullish again, right? Everyone's going to be, oh, bitcoin's back. I'm excited. But you know, what people don't realize is the long players are losing and the short players are losing, because this psychology just feeds in perfectly, right? And just be aware of that, right? This is why, also, we're not worried about what price is doing at the moment, because we have an understanding that although bitcoin is down, it's actually really fun. It's awesome. It's the best thing ever. It's the best.

The worst thing that can happen for us is it just goes up forever. That's the worst thing that can Happen.

We don't want that. Yeah. And it's also not healthy, you know, so I think people get so caught up on, on. And I'm not trying to paint us as experts. We've. I've been doing this for over a decade, but I'm still learning things every day and I'm still humbled constantly and wanting to learn because I'm passionate about this. I love, this is what I want to do. So, you know, I think not to get so caught up in what everyone's saying on Twitter and what your friend's telling you and what your uncle's telling you and actually go out there and put, put in the time to do your research because once you build your own conviction, not bias conviction, and you start to look at things the right way, you're going to have so much more success. But don't be a part of the crowd that's just feeding this cycle of losses over and over again. Because remember guys, the long players are losing and the short players are losing. But don't be a part of that. Exit liquidity.

And what's so powerful about the algo is that you can make money like you can make money in both directions. That's how you're going to enjoy the game right now. The Algo allows you to make money with the price going down, but with a long only strategy, you don't want to be playing the long and short game. That's what Sebastian is saying. That's why this algo is good, because you can make money when the market's going down using the long only strategy. Right. But that requires discipline and it requires algorithmic precision and that's.

Right, that's what we've built. Yeah. And requires being comfortable sometimes in uncomfortable positions. I mean, you know, if you, if you can't see your portfolio being in a little bit of underwater, I mean, you know, I think people have this expectation that they're going to come into the market and it's just going to look pretty all the time. No, you have to be comfortable with your portfolio sometimes being in drawdown or like Jamal just said, get excited when the price drops because this is where you're going to make the most of your money.

Right.

Don't be afraid of being in drawdown or being underwater. Right. It's that fear that it will actually cause you to lose. So, you know, hopefully this is helping you guys get it better. Because, you know, Costa, I want to make the point that even with algorithmic systems, I mean, we've seen this right with our company and people we've brought in, the psychology is very important. Yeah, you have, you have to be calm. You have to really be calm. If you're freaking out or you know, getting emotional based on what his price is doing, I can tell you no system and no algorithm is going to help you. Doesn't matter how good it is. Right. You, you still need to be able to handle the price. Right. It's, it's still.

This is a really cool. I'm gonna bring up another article as well. If you guys heard of. Yeah, Peter Lynch. So Peter lynch is one of the greatest stock investors of all time. He's like up there with Warren Buffett. He retired after about 20 years. I think he had the best performance. It was a 34.9%. Can you guys see my screen?

Yeah.

34.9.

I love this. I've run into this before. This is awesome.

An annual return weight of 29%. But I think the again, I gotta find the data. But you can look it up yourself. But I'm pretty sure it was over 60% of his investors lost money. And he was like, he's like the third or second or third greatest investor of all time. How does 60% of people that invested with him lose money? And the reason is because of impulsivity, performance chasing, bad timing. Right. Like these are the reasons why you can see here Peter lynch, how many versus lost billions. How is that possible? If it's going, he's returning 29 a year. Many investors lost money due to emotional trading and following the crowd. So it's just a really important point that even with an algorithm like ours that has a 95 plus percent win rate, if you're emotional about it, you can still be your worst enemy. It's really important and we've seen it over and over and over again. Like we've been running this algorithm for a couple of years and somehow there are still people that will figure out a way to lose money. And the only reason, the only way you can lose money is if you get involved. You're over emotional or you're greedy and you over leverage. Right. Maybe you can talk a bit on that, Sebastian.

Yeah, well, it's just, you know, I, I wish and I think know it's important because we come on this show every single week, we show you guys exactly the trades we're taking, exactly what the algorithm's doing. I mean we've got hundreds and hundreds of clients that, that are running this as well and doing this with us. And we're not here to hide and not be transparent. And I wish I could tell you guys that every customer that's ever walked through our door has been successful, but it's not true. Because the reality is, like I said, we've got a tool that's incredible and it will work, but you have to allow it to work. You have to allow to work. If you can't. And, and sometimes, you know, I'm not trying to point fingers and blame people, but this market isn't for everyone either.

No, that's. I think that's the biggest point. That's the biggest point. It's really not and a lot.

But the thing is, Costa, everyone wants to make money, but to make money, you need to take risk. And the question is, when you take that risk, are you able to weather the storm? And for us, it's not even really a storm. It's a little bit of drawdown. But even that freaks people out, you know, so, yeah, that's the point. You know, just understand that it is going to require more than. Than the best tools in the world for you to have success. You. You got to get out of your own way, and that's okay.

That.

That's fine. Do you guys think I'm any different? Why do you think we built this system? We were struggling manually. It wasn't until we built systems that aided us that we started having so much success. It's. It's okay to let the ego go and, and let the tools take over because, you know, if you're. If you're trading with ego and emotion manually in a market driven by algorithms, you can't succeed. I hate to say it.

That's very true. It's very true. So, anyway, we've got the tools. If you're interested. Use the. Let me get my thing. There you go. Schedule a call. I know most of the people on this call, I think, are clients anyway.

Because, yeah, they are. It's awesome. That's fine.

Maybe in. Maybe in two years time, we'll have a bit more of an audience, but.

Yeah, that's right. That's fine. We're building here. You know, we. We really are building for the future. We're not thinking about, you know, clout or any of that crap. You know, we want to get information out there that that's going to help people understand this market, you know, and have success. Because it's so. It's so hard. It is. Anyone that really is open and honest with them, a lot of traders will tell you, oh, it's easy.

But if they're.

If they're actually open. And honest trading is one of the hardest things in the world, guys. So, you know.

Yeah, it actually combines so many different things from psych. You're gonna need to have a philosophy, which is almost strategy. You need to have psychology. You need to be able to take risk, got to be able to manage risk. You've got to understand numbers.

There's.

There's so much to it. It really is a. A high level. It requires a high level of performance to do well. So any tools that you can get to help you are great. But yeah, just working on that psychology is really important and it comes from time. You know, the reason we trust the algorithm so much is because we've run.

It for so long.

That's the most. I guess, you know, that's why we, we sit here when the market's dumping and we are so relaxed because we know exactly what it's going to do. And as a client, you really need to come. You know what Dan is saying, Attending these meetings is really the best thing because. Because you can just learn faster by listening to us talk about the strategy, because we've built it now it's yours. But you will learn from, from hearing us talk about it.

Yeah, it's long term. It's long term wealth creation, guys. I mean, we're sitting in the most incredible market and environment for building wealth that has ever existed. You just have to be patient with it. Nothing that's good comes quickly. Right. Even I was reading something insane the other day doing data analysis research on some of the best defi traders who made them. Who turned the smallest amount of money into the most amount of money. Maybe I'll show you guys this next week because it's jarring. And what it actually shows is most of the people who took like $1,000 and turned it into 10 million lost it very, very quickly after.

Yeah. Because they made it too quick. Yeah.

And then they thought they had an edge on the market. Yada yada. The market will always get you. So, you know, the point is try and block out the noise. And it's okay to be on a journey that takes time to get to where you want to go. I mean, that's actually a beautiful thing, you know, so don't get caught up in trying to do it quickly because that. That's not the answer either.

Yeah. And that's another good point, is that we've gotten to the point now when we talk to someone and a client will say, oh, look, I want to make more Money. And we actually say, if you want to make more money with the algorithm, you need to go and find more money. The solution is not to make the algorithm more aggressive.

Exactly.

And put yourself in a position where you're going to be at risk. The solution is just to have a good business, have a good job, have good savings, and just be able to put more money slowly into the algorithm. And over time, you will make more money. The solution is not to be more aggressive and to take more risk. That's why what we do is extremely conservative. This is why we work with Giovanni and why people like Giovanni trust our system. And probably one of the reasons why we don't have that big of a following at the moment is because we're just not. We're not promising moonshots in 12 months time.

It is.

This is a serious compounding machine and it will take time. But people like Dan here, you know, it solves a problem for them. They don't think about manually trading and they've got our algorithm now, which does it for them.

Yeah, we don't. We don't. I always think about this, but we don't actually give people what they want. We give people what they need.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

We don't give what. I wish I could give people what they want. Want. I wish I could tell you. Here's how you turn.

You know that. You know the thing that's funny, Sebastian, is that a lot of people don't realize that you could make people like 20amonth with the algorithm.

Yeah, you could, you could.

But the problem is we know what's going to happen one day. They're going to lose it all.

Exactly. And maybe, actually, Costa, because I think we've had a lot of fun today, maybe as we do these sessions when it's just me and you, we can do some hedge fund research for people just to show people things that have happened in the past. Right. Where. Where funds thought they couldn't lose and the wheels fall off. I mean, it.

Yeah, I did it on that as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, Costa does some amazing content guys on. On that sort of stuff. But don't fool yourself in thinking like, you know, the funds that are out there and the big players are in the space are experts because most of them actually have no idea what they're doing. That. That's a jarring thing to learn and understand. So, you know. Yeah, you going out and putting the time into research and understand these skills, hey, I think that's a million times better. Than investing into a hedge or mutual or trust fund because, you know, you're going to be learning and you're going to get an edge if you're willing to commit the time.

I agree. And you can check out this video here.

This is an amazing video.

This one here as well. So. Yeah, they give you a bit of an idea of that.

Well, we had a good question here.

Yeah, this one here. Yeah, The. What's the. Every trade platform. Do you want to. Just funny funds?

I don't know what that means. If you're talking about our. If you're talking about our upcoming software release, I think. Is that what he's talking about?

I don't know. We'll have a look.

Yeah, I'm not too sure.

The too aggressive said. Yeah. What could I tell you what could happen? You get liquidated. It's that simple.

Yeah, yeah.

You will get liquidated. Actually, if your settings are too aggressive, what will happen is it'll do well for, for, for short, even a medium amount of time, and then eventually it'll get liquidated. That's just what happens.

That's right. And, and I hate to say these guys, but, like, it doesn't matter how good of a run you've been on if the end result is liquidation. What? It was meaningless. It meant nothing.

Yeah, right.

And that, that's not me being harsh. It's me just saying, you know, the tortoise always does win the race, like all the time. Now, I'm not saying you can, you can take our system and become an expert at understanding liquidity and how to manage risk, and you actually can take on risk and do really, really well. But the point is you need to really understand those mechanics. And also, that's what Marcus does with the trading desk. He's pretty amazing. He's not here to talk about it, but there is things you can learn as well.

Yeah, we can dive into this question. So our software is still going to be connecting with an exchange. Right? Our software is essentially going to allow you to connect the algorithm to the exchange. So you still need an exchange. However, the solution that we're going to have, firstly is so you can't get around using an exchange. You're going to need either an exchange that's centralized or a Dex. Now, the Dex solution is going to be with Hyper Liquid and it's going to happen. It's probably not going to happen until Q1 or Q2 of next year because we're working firstly on a centralized exchange, which is a really good exchange. We haven't made an announcement yet, but it does allow you to create an account without kycing until you want to withdraw more than $10,000 a day. So what that means is that anyone from around the world will be able to use that exchange, and it's up to them. It's basically voluntary kyc, what we like to call. So that's going to enable anyone from anywhere around the world to use that. You can still use our software as a US citizen anyway, with Coinbase, which we integrate with and Kraken, I believe, and trade the spot market like Jamal, I think is doing.

Yeah, spot's great, guys. Don't, don't. I think so many people discount the spot market because everyone's so obsessed with leverage and futures. And I understand it, it is a powerful tool if you understand how to use it. But let's not forget the underlying power of the spot market. You have no liquidation risk things, I mean, bar Bitcoin going to zero. Right. Like you're in an environment where it's the safest place to trade. So, you know, don't, don't discredit that.

Yeah, so, yeah, you can answer this.

Yeah, so, yeah, I know Kraken and Coinbase, they do technically have futures now, guys, but then they're not really, they haven't really rolled it out at scale. What they're doing right now is they're tagging whether you're an institutional investor or not and then offering you based on that. I can tell you guys, for Coinbase, you need a minimum of a million dollars in equity to even be considered. So in my opinion, be excited because it's coming, but there's still a little bit longer until, until we will be able to. But you know, the flip side of that is, guys, we are, we are working day and night to give you guys a solution that you can plug into as US citizens. So, you know, leave it with us. It's not going to be too much longer. Yeah, once again, we're going to need a little bit of patience here as well.

Yeah, this is another one. I'll explain this. I like explaining this because it's, it's really hard to get your head around, so it takes ages, even for us. All right, so let me show you something. Leverage doesn't really matter when you're using a unified trading account, because it's a cross margin account. So what that's taken into account is how much have you got in your account and how much have you deployed. Right. That leverage that you're actually using doesn't really matter and the reason I'll show you. Have a look at this setup here. I'm just using $10,000 wallet size. You see, I only need 9,146. I'm using 10X leverage and these are my position sizes. If I come here and I change the leverage to 3, you're going to see none of the liquidation at 55. Just keep your eye on that. Okay, so with that safety order actually will need to use. But see how the liquidation level hasn't actually changed to 55. It's just by using more leverage, we distribute the capital differently. So having a larger amount of leverage allows you to use less of your own money in the trade. So if I put this to 5x, slowly getting it up. This is why we, you. Well, we usually suggest three to five. And what we would do in this case if someone wanted that is. But again, the point that I'm trying to make is the liquidation level is not changing and the money that you pay is based on the actual size of the positions, not the amount of leverage. So in this case here, by using more leverage, it doesn't actually increase the risk, it just, it just increases the decrease the amount of capital that I need.

Sorry, that's a, that's a psychology shift as well, isn't it? Because the average brain thinks of leverage as a way to amplify risk, where we use it as a way to use as little of the portfolio as possible to grow the total allocated amount. It's a, it's a psychology shift.

So 10x works really well. As you can see. It's the easiest way to actually fill it. However, again, you can play around with less leverage and it's really exactly the same thing, like I said. So the 51,000 there on the liquidation level, if I change it to 5 leverage, it hasn't actually changed it. It's changed to 51. Has it changed leverage? 5? 10. Yeah, 51. 51. See how the liquidation is staying the same no matter the leverage I'm using. So it's all about the position sizing and the amount of capital that you're going to have to have in your account. The less leverage you use, the more of the capital it's going to actually use. Risk level remains the same. It takes a little bit to think about to get your head around that.

But that's. This is why also when you're trading spot, it does often at times require a little bit more capital. Because. Because you don't have the ability to use leverage to use More margin, you have to use the total balance. So that's something to think about as well.

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it seems like it makes sense. So yeah, it's an interesting one.

So.

So some people feel uncomfortable running it with 10x and I get that it actually makes no difference. You're just going to have to make sure you've got more capital there to deploy again. The risk level remains exactly the same though.

So yeah, I would say the only time. Like what, what can happen? I would say, like what we're trying to say is that, you know, when you use leverage like this, it's a powerful tool and once again you can use more leverage and doesn't increase the risk. But we're not saying to go and use 100x because when you use 100x even with this methodology, the exchanges can force liquidate your position. It's a little bit too, the numbers.

Move too quick for them.

Yeah. So we're not saying to come and use 150x but the point we're making is that when you use leverage like this, the difference between 3x and 20x depending on your balance is actually nothing. Which is, which is very interesting.

Yeah, it doesn't increase the, it doesn't increase because you're using cross margin expansion account. So just, just think about it. If you've got 100k in the account and you, you enter with a 5% position size and you use 10x leverage or 3x leverage, the liquidation level is based on the 100k of the account, none of the amount used in leverage. The leverage is just saying how much of my own money am I going to use to deploy that? 3%. Right. 110 or 1/3.

Exactly that. You said it perfectly. There was one question Costa I wanted to answer. He asked it before Brian. Sorry, I know we've taken a while to get to it. He said how does the fear and greed index, is it mathematically does it actually come from. I think that's a good question. So it comes from a number of different things. First of all, it's volatility. Right. So it measures the volatility and compares it to average values. It also looks at the market momentum against the volume and it uses social media sentiment as well. And lastly, dominance. So it actually tracks like Bitcoin's dominance against the overall crypto market. That is a chart also that no one looks at. I can recommend you guys to please go take a look at that because it's very telling and attracts the market cap denomination and the distance between bitcoin's market cap and the rest of the altcoin market. So there's four or five different things at play that drive that fear and greed index for bitcoin. But social media is one that is trapped as well, which is why it works so well. Because, you know, like today, I mean, the whole market's in fear now. Bitcoin's pumping. This is what we said. It's not happening at random. It's happening because everyone's short and now there's an opportunity to make money going long off liquidations for the makers. So it's good to look into these things.

Yeah. So what I'd like to see is this time next week that potentially we're up out of the. I, I do have to say, regardless of everything we said, it does feel better right now to be above 115 for some reason. Psychologically, I just like to be a little bit further away from 100 because I do want to see an exciting entity. One of the reasons why, personally is I think bull runs bring a lot of interest back into bitcoin. I think one of the reasons why bitcoin has the adoption that it's had is because of its bull runs. It makes it quite exciting and it brings new players into the game. We all got into crypto and bitcoin because we heard about the amazing returns other people were making. And then we started doing our own research and figuring out, you know, what this technology does and what it is and what it means. So, you know, as much as it doesn't really matter, it would be nice to see some excitement at the end of the year because I do think it's going to bring new participants to the market and overall that's what creates the network effect and the power law that we all follow. So, you know, that's my little piece on it.

Yeah.

Apart from that, I think we can wind it down. We've come close to an hour.

It was a good show.

Yeah. If you, if I think we're just going to continue these shows and I mean we may do another one with Giovanni if we can find another time. Otherwise he'll probably start joining when he's back in, in the United States. Maybe we'll do two shows. I kind of like doing more of them.

Yeah, this is, this was fun. I think us getting a bit of a chance to delve into the concepts with we're looking at. And also, you know, thanks all the customers for joining. We love talking to you guys, man. Please join every week. Open ended Conversation, discussion, question asking. It's such a good way, you know, to learn the system and learn more. And yeah, Jamal, you're right. Right. If you think about the concept of what we do, and I'll end on this because, you know, we want to, we want to wrap up, but the concept of what we do is to buy values. So how do you guys think this is going to perform in a bear market? That's actually what we want. We want the price to go down, of course, we want it to go up to clean out a little bit more. But you know, when we go bearish, remember guys, we're going to be liquid in the market. We're not going to be holding and we're not going to need to rely on bitcoin going back to its all time high to break even and make money.

So, yeah, one thing I don't get as well, I'm going to get into it, is that unless you're Michael Saylor now and you've got as more, you know, more bitcoins than anyone else on the planet, you want this to play out as slow as possible, right? Because the end, it's going to get to where it's going to get. I think that's like a foregone conclusion. But the thing is, is you want to, you want it to get there much slower because you want to acquire more, right. If you currently don't have a lot of bitcoin, you're going to need time. And whatever you have right now, you want that to go to a million dollars and it's game over. You want to have more time to acquire. Like unless you're like, what's it, octane, Unless you're in your 80s or 90s and you've got a couple of bitcoin, of course you want it to go to million dollars. But if you're in your 20s, 30s or 40s, like you've got 20, 30, 40 years, you want time to accumulate more. So this is why, Jamal, the bear market is exciting. Of course it is, because that's when we get to really, really deploy. So, example. Yeah, you know, the long game is the game to play. It always has been, always will. And that's the game that we're playing. So hopefully we can help. If you're not already in that frame of mind, you know, hearing us discuss the way we see things helps you as well, because we can all have a lot of success together if we play our cards right.

Exactly. That's the key here.

Yeah. Tom, this is going to be the same time every week. It's either going to be with our show or Giovanni's. But yeah, we'll definitely be doing our own show as well. I think it's really cool.

Yeah.

Trying to catch more shows. Yeah, yeah.

And I think everyone in here, you know, I mean, you guys really have the right mentality to succeed in this market and I think we'll try and get more customers onto this, onto this show and. Yeah, that's right. Jamal, the retirement plan. Right. It's it. But like I'm not saying it's going to take you forever, but you need to be able to see into the future. If you're short sighted in this market, you're exit liquidity. That's what I always like.

And to just to add to that, if you've got a million dollars or more, it's not a retirement plan, it's a do whatever you want plan. We've got, we've got clients with, with more, you know, seven figures plus. And, and these guys, you could tell them, Sebastian, what are some of these guys take profits. How much are they clearing something?

Yeah, well we've got clients who make like $200,000 a month. Month. Just every time.

So it's like.

But obviously these clients have four to five million dollars. Yeah.

And you have to understand the guys like these guys have exactly the same settings as, as like that everyone's running all like, not everyone's exactly the same, but there's not like some magic settings. Right. The fundamentals are the same. Right. The strategy is the same. They're just working with more money.

Yeah, that's right. And they just learned, I'd say the, the, the clients that are playing with larger allocations of capital as well. You know, this is an important point too. With our system, the goal is if you've got a big portfolio, you should be de risked because you don't need to take any risk to make money. Let me give you an example. When you've got $5 million, 2% in a month, right. That's a lot of money guys. Right. 1% of the month is a lot of money. It's 50 to $100,000 a month. So you know, the goal is yes, we can take risk while we need to, but when you get to a point where you've got size, you should be de risking. That's, that's the beauty of what we do. It's de risking as your portfolio grows.

Correct. I think I did a thing on this again. These numbers are just call it a back of the envelope because I can't remember what was the thing, but I somehow worked out that for every dollar you put into this in the next 10 years, if we follow the power law, you should get 22 times back. So, again, I can't remember when we came up with that. I think we were in Las Vegas with Giovanni and we sat down and we figured something out. But. But yeah, like work overtime, buy, you know, get access to this algorithm. You know, run it on Bitcoin and just don't try and be more risky. Just try and keep using that capital, Keep finding that capital and just adding to the system. Let it compound. Buy more. It's just a compounding machine.

Yeah, yeah. It's such a good mentality. I think so many people just like one handed to them, they want quick success and they're not willing to put in what it actually takes to get to their goal. And, Jamal, you know, I. You know, I wasn't always doing this. I know what it was like when I was younger to be working overtime doing night shift, trying to accumulate what I needed. And now I'm in a position where I have what I want. And, you know, I think that came through, you know, attrition and putting in effort and being passionate about what you enjoy, you know, so don't get caught up because like I said, this market's fickle, man. People believe in most people that say they like crypto, they actually don't even care about it. They just want to figure out how they can make money as fast as possible.

Yeah, that's true. That's true.

Awesome.

All right, guys, we'll leave it at that. Thank you for joining the show. And yeah, we'll see you this time next week, 5:30pm Pacific Time.

Thanks, guys.

Cheers.