BIGGEST LOSER Trainer Breaks Silence After Years of Staying Quiet

When it comes to weight loss, the more things change, the more I really believe things stay the same. I've been around long enough. So of you if you're listening to midlife conversations, I've been around long enough to see all the trends come and go and the fascination around weight loss. And I really, big time remember the Biggest Loser. My gosh, almost two decades ago, when the Biggest Loser show aired, the fascination with that reality about fast weight loss, about dramatic, huge transformation from going from seriously obese with disease to super, super thin, even to the extremes of possibly unhealthy. And with the recurrence now, the new documentary around the Biggest Loser, lots of people talking about that, bringing it back to the surface. I thought, this is perfect timing to have my friend Kim Lyons on, who was one of the trainers on the Biggest Loser seasons three and four. Now, the reason I'm having her on, I'd already been thinking a lot about doing an episode about this whole show about my thoughts on. And I happened to be scrolling Instagram. I saw her story. She was on a soapbox sharing all her thoughts about the documentary. And I thought this is the perfect conversation to have live. So thank you so much for being here today, Kim.

Yeah, so fun. It's always great to jump in and have a conversation. We could probably go for days about this, but I'm just looking forward to.

You know, sharing a little bit more. I've been really, really quiet about my experience on the Biggest Loser. It was something that I just kind of shut that door and I moved on. But I feel like now is the time where people really need to understand. I am so tired of hearing so many trainers talk about it when they know nothing about the behind the scenes. I hear neurosurgeons and medical people all over the world that are very popular that I admire and learn and listen from. But when they bring up the Biggest Loser, it makes my blood boil because everybody has an opinion on it, but nobody really knows what is truly going on on that set and what it's like. It's a very, very unique situation. So I'm looking forward to just kind of sharing a little bit about that and then also, just like you said, talking about how it's really the same thing over and over again. So it's. It's gonna be a good conversation today.

I can't wait. And for those of you listening or watching us on YouTube, Kim and I actually met, gosh, years ago. We must have been in our early 20s. I think we must have in our early 20s. Both of us years ago used to do these fitness competitions. It was like Tri, Fit and Galaxy, where this wasn't just standing on a stage, posing and looking pretty. It was like you had to do athletic stuff. It was like climbing ropes and it was like cargo nets. It was like military style stuff that we would train for and then you would compete over this. And so I first met Kim literally in our early 20s. Spray tanned, calorie restricted, water depleted, and doing crazy ninja moves. And that's when we first met.

That sums it up right there.

That literally sums it up where we are different. As you said just before we start recording, you said if the Galaxy was still around, I'd probably still be doing it. I definitely would not still be doing it. But I love that you have such fond memories of it. Oh, my gosh.

No, it was such a fun time because it was such a goal, you know, but it is funny, you know, starting there, it's like you look at that time of when we did those competitions. It was three to four months of extreme dieting. It was extreme workouts. I mean, I don't know about you, but I was doing an hour of cardio, an hour of workouts, an hour of gymnastics and another hour of cardio every single day. That's four hours of intense exercise. And oh, by the way, guess what I was eating? 1200 calories. Oh, yeah, me too.

And we didn't do fat then. Remember? Like, I remember we didn't. The, the thing then was steamed or boiled, like chicken or tilapia. Steamed or boiled broccoli. Then your fat was so negligible. And I remember that I would be so fat deprived. I don't know about how you did yours, but I would. I remember a couple times being in the grocery store and attacking a jar of peanut butter. Or like, I would see.

And I also remember it's all the same. It really is. I mean, I had fat, 15 grams of fat every day. That was my total fat intake. And Natalie, I used to have peanuts and I would break them in half, so I would have twice as many. And for the peanut butter, when I came back from a competition in Cancun, I literally had a jar of peanut butter and a spoon. That's what I ate on the way home on the airplane. Because you're so fat deprived. Oh, yeah. And guess what? Neither one of us have permanently damaged metabolisms.

I know we're going to talk about that because that is a whole crazy thing. Yeah, we're going to talk about that today. I have so Many things I want to, I want to ask you. We got, we got to stay on track here. I'm going to keep myself on track. My ADHD is not going to get in the way today because I have.

A lot of questions.

Okay, so let's. Oh, by the way, one more thing I'm going to say on that, though. What's funny is we didn't have social media back then. Can you imagine if we had, like, documented all that on Instagram or like, we didn't have any of that. So we just have actual hard copy pictures of our.

I really wish we would have had social because most of the time I was, as, you know, very solo on my journey. And I don't have pictures of so much that I have zero video footage. I have nothing from those days that were so amazing. So, you know, kudos to social media now. It is an ongoing documentary of your life.

Yeah. Okay, so let's get ready into that to the. The Biggest Loser. I want to. Let's talk about that show. To begin with. I happen to know. Well, I know you and I know Brett Hobel, who was a trainer on it. And I actually was in Jillian Michaels DVDs years ago when I first started my, my public fitness journey. And all three of you, I'd say, really do care about people. And you got into health and fitness for a reason. Like you genuinely care. So let's talk about the Biggest Loser and I want you shared something on your story about TV producers and their goal and their, their role. And I wanted you to share a little bit about that because I know in the documentary people are like, well, we should have had aftercare or they should have followed us along along the way. And my initial thought was that is not the job of a producer.

Right. And, you know, I think it is very interesting because as a personal trainer. Oh, my. Yes. I would love to have, you know, all the things for clients or contestants after they leave the show. But the reality is, you know, when contestants come on that show, they know what they're in for. And I want to, I want to preface right off the beginning that I did seasons three and four. So I was very early in, in the program and it was not season 17, you know, and in season one and two, yeah, people might not have known what they were in for, but in season three and four, they darn well knew what they were in for. So season three, it was just Bob and I, and then season four, it was Jillian, Bob and I. So, you know, in my stories, I kind of Broke it down into. You have to look at this from several different angles. And that's where I feel like a lot of people kind of miss the big picture. You have to look at it from what the producers are doing, what the trainers are doing, what the doctors are doing, and what the press and media are doing. Those are four really important angles that you have to look at it from. And like you said with the producers, producers have one job, and that is to make entertaining tv. They want to make a show that people come back and they watch. And when the Biggest Loser first started, as Dave Broom said in the documentary, it started because he saw a flyer of an obese person looking for a trainer. And it was desperately seeking a trainer. And it's interesting because as I also mentioned in the stories that most obese people, they don't go to trainers, they go to doctors. And doctors are not qualified at all to talk about nutrition or exercise with clients that have obesity. So they're really. And they don't have the time either. So there really is a huge disconnect there. There are not very many trainers out there that have any experience with working with clients that are obese. So it really put the show in a very interesting light. And when the producers first started the show, they didn't know what they were going to get. And when they started to see those double digits on the scale, it was obviously something that they were like, I think we're onto something here. And you also have to look at, you know, what America loves. People love drama. People don't love Kumbaya high fives, smiles and happy workouts. That might be okay for a five second clip, but what they love is the screaming and the yelling and the drama. And if you say Biggest Loser, the first thing that comes to mind is Jillian going crazy yelling at somebody and they're falling off the back of the treadmill. Is that realistic? Absolutely not. Is it horrible? Absolutely. Would Jillian train people like that nowadays? I doubt it. Yeah, for tv, that was a producer's dream come true. It made for good tv.

And I've been. I mean, I certainly wasn't on the Biggest Loser, but I've been on TV enough to know what producers do, and it's almost like trickery. It's their job, though. But they will ask you so many questions or they will almost like create the drama or. And if you're on set being filmed hours and hours all day long, like, you cannot be on guard perfectly the whole time. Right. So you're, you're not. So when they start saying, you know, like, so and so has been complaining about. Your whole team is mad at you. Of course it's going to put you in a certain mindset to go say the wrong thing or snap or. And that's the part they will clip and edit for tv.

Well, that's just it, you know, and you kind of hit the nail on the head there. But I do want to say, like, when I started the Biggest Loser, and again, I go back to the fact this is season three. I don't know what happened beyond seasons three and four, but I was never told anything. I literally was asked, they said, are you ready for your life to completely change? I didn't even know what that meant. I was like, yeah. I mean, yes. I'd recently just got divorced. I was kind of a hot mess altogether. Yeah, sure, I'm ready for whatever. I was living in a little tiny apartment. I was just training people on the daily. And I was like, yeah, sure, I'm ready. I didn't even know what the heck I was saying. But I showed up on day one and they literally said, you're going to go up on a zip line. You're going to zip line in and that's how the show's going to start. That was how much prep I had for that show. Zero. I had nothing. I did not know what. What was coming ever. I was never. I rarely even talked to the producers. The only kind of guidance or storyline that I would have was, would be the interview questions. And they were usually very black and white. There wasn't. During my time, there wasn't a lot of drama stirred up. So it was pretty, pretty straightforward. I wouldn't usually know what the drama was until I went in the next day and, you know, it kind of would unfold. But not a lot of coaching in there.

So I want to back up to kind of the beginning. Like, how did you even get into the show? Was it an audition? Was it like a casting call? What was like, you're. When you first learned about it, what was the reason? You were like, I want to try out for this or I want to see go for this.

So this is actually a really interesting story that most people don't know, but I was training over at the sand dune. I don't know if you know the sand dune park over in Manhattan Beach. But I was literally on the sand dune and my phone rang and it was the girl named Allison from three Ball casting. And she said, I don't know if you are aware of the show, the Biggest loser. But we're doing auditions and we would love to have you come in on audition. And I was like, okay. And this is after season one there. Okay, this was. I was auditioning for season two of the show and I was like, okay, yeah, when did you want me to come in? She's like, well, can you come in in the next hour? And I was like, sure. I'm young, I'm naive. I'm just a trainer. I am like, sure. So I go, I got sand on my face. I got. I mean, I'm not dressed in any way other than going to the sand dune and getting a workout, but it was right up the street. So I was like, sure, I'll pop in. I'll never forget Natalie. I opened the door and at this point, you know, I was feeling kind of special. I was like, oh, this is cool. I got a call, you know, and I walk in the door and there is like a whole room full of people that were hair, makeup, good clothes, not sweaty with sand in their hair. And I immediately felt like an idiot. And I almost walked out because it.

Was like a cattle call. Like a cattle call. Like a bunch of.

Okay, exactly. And I thought it was just an informal meet and greet. I had no idea I was going to a casting. So I almost left and I went up to the front and I looked at the sign in sheet and it said, name, put my name. It said agent. Self manager. Self manager. Phone number. Non aptal. My phone number. Oh, I got that. So I got like 2 out of 10 boxes in the sign in sheet. I was really feeling about this big. And I waited for about 10 minutes again, almost left like 15 times. And then I went in and it was a really simple interview. It was great. It was just, you know, again, I was so naive that I just didn't even know what. I wasn't trying to be anything other than just what I am, who I am. I'm a personal trainer. This is what I do. And after that, I got called back about three more times to talk to different producers, do roundtables. And it didn't really hit me until I got picked up and they took me to NBC and I met Ben Silverman, who is the president of NBC. And again, that didn't even hit me until I got up the elevator into his office and it was this incredible office. And the casting girl said to me, she's like, don't be offended. You're gonna be in and out and it'll be like a five minute thing. He just wants to meet you. And that's it. Natalie. I was in there for about 45 minutes. We were doing one arm push ups. It was so much fun. And I came out, she's like, what were you doing in there? I was like, we're just doing like one arm push ups and stuff and talking about nutrition. And from there, I got the call and they said, you got the job. And again, this is for season two. So I was like, okay. So. So no manager, no agent. I went in and I signed this much paperwork, you know, and I.

Without an attorney, I'm assuming you just.

Like, okay, I'm okay. Okay. I mean, young, dumb, naive sign in my life. But we also.

We didn't have social at the time. We had, like four TV channels. Like, TV wasn't even that. There was, like, the same TV channels. There wasn't anything that we have now. So, like, our goal in fitness was like, get on a magazine and if you could get on tv, like, those are the two things.

And you know what? I was really blissfully naive to the business side of tv. It's pretty gnarly. I mean, it gets deep and it's not nice. In a lot of ways, you do have to sign your life away, but, my goodness, you sign your life away when you go to the dentist these days, you know? So I signed all the paperwork, and I was so excited. I was getting ready for a fitness competition at the time. So I was shredded. And I went home. I had a big pizza party with all my friends. I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm gonna be on this show. I had seen, like, one episode of the show. I didn't even really know now, was this paid?

Were they going to pay you? Was this, like, a job where they're paying you?

Yeah, so it was a paid job. So it's really. I mean, that was huge for me. I just gotten a divorce. I walked away with nothing. And it was a really big deal. I was like, I think I have a real job. So everything. I was getting all ready to start, and the morning before I was going to start on the show, I get a call and the producers say, we're so sorry. Unfortunately, things have fallen through, and Gillian will be back for the next season, and we're not going to move forward with you. And I was like, what? What? I am so confused. I, like, signed all the papers. I signed everything, like it was a done deal. And they said yes. Every one of those papers you signed said contingent on NBC. So after two hours of signing documents, they all Say, contingent on NBC, which means NBC can do whatever they want, and you're just, yeah, take it. So I went to bed that night, and I was just. Didn't even know how to feel. I was just devastated. It's like I was sad, but I didn't even really know what I was missing. So I talked to my girlfriend, and she was like, you should call him and give him a piece of your mind. I was like, yeah, I'm mad. So I called him up, like, three days later, and I was like, hi, this is Kim Lyons. I just want to say thank you so much for the opportunity, and if it ever arises again, I would love to be a part of the show. That was me being mad, so I left it at that. And needless to say, I watched the show a lot more in season two, and I just knew I was like, I could do that. I could do that, and I could do that better. And, you know, I wanted to take away the screaming and the yelling. I wanted that high five. I wanted to show the positive side of weight loss. And then they called me back for season three, and they said, you know, would you come back and audition again? We're only bringing back the top 50 from last year's auditions. And so I went back again, and that's when I got the job. So it was life changing. It really was.

So you go in, you have no TV experience. This is not like your thing. You've not worked in a production yet, and you're excited about having the job, obviously, and your life changing. You don't know what that means. But what's your thought about who you were going to be working with and helping? And what was your. And did you have the true freedom to help the way you really would have as a trainer?

Yeah, you know, that's such a good question, because it was back then, there was not a lot of support on the show. It was literally my grocery list. I went to Trader Joe's, had a clipboard, and wrote down everything that I wanted my shadow to buy. And that's what the way we do would hand the grocery list to the shadow, and the shadow would go do the groceries, and they would bring it in the kitchen. I did everything from their training to their nutrition. Absolutely everything was a beautifully controlled environment. And, you know, when you're a personal trainer, you usually get to spend about three hours a week with your clients, and then you don't really know very much else about exactly what they're doing all day every day. Yeah. They might give you a Food log, but it's never really 100% accurate. So on the Biggest Loser, you know, there's no other food in that kitchen other than what you're bringing. You know, what they're doing when they're training. And back then, they wore these little body pods, so we could see, you know, their calorie burn and things like that. So in terms of training, on day one, I remember I was going over core stabilization and how to do a lunge, how to do a squat. Very normal stuff. And Bob's got his team on the treadmill, like, running, and it's just high energy and crazy. And I'm, like, over there on the grass going, okay, so this is your core. You want to make sure that you. Boring. So, I mean, if you were teaching.

The way we would really teach somebody that has a lot of weight, that's new to working out like you're doing, that's how. That's how we're trained. Like, let's start at level one.

I never even would have ever even thought of starting any other way. It never crossed my mind. I'm on tv and I need to make this interesting Nowadays. If I would go back, I would make it a little more interesting. But I guarantee the producers were just sitting there cringing, going, oh, my gosh, she's so boring. But to me, that was kind of what it needed to be. So I did get a little nudge, and then they were, like, gonna have to up the energy a little bit.

So they gave you no format. It was just like, go, here's what you're.

You.

So you're in. Just going, okay, this is what I would do if a client walked into my class at the gym. Like, this is how I would do it. So you have, like, literally total control there?

Yep, a hundred percent. So zero. And at that time, there really was no one else on set that had any education about fitness and training. And, you know, when you think about it, even with. With Bob, Bob was a spin instructor before, so he didn't have that background of, you know, doing personal training, doing writing out the programs, the competition, diets. You know, all of that really came into play and put me at a huge advantage, especially when it came to the nutrition and knowing how to diet down in a very short amount of time. So were you in your mind, like.

When you saw these people? Because, like, like you said, we're used to people that, you know, maybe 50 pounds max to, like, not. You don't get the client that has 200 pounds typically, like, it's not walks into the gym. So were you. Did you feel like, I really can help these people, or were you, like, a little nervous? Or were you thinking you're gonna have more support? Like, what was going on in your mind during all this?

You know, it was all such a whirlwind at the time. When I first started, all I was thinking of was, I'm gonna go into the set on a zipline that they just built yesterday. I hope I don't even just die coming onto the set. But I really took it minute by minute, and it was almost better because I think if I would have really known and overthought it, I would have been a little more nervous. Everything happened so quick. It was, show up here, get on the zip line, you're zipping in and that. And then the cameras are rolling. And I had 50 people the first season. I did. They had the 50 states, and there was 50 people competing to stay on the ranch. And I just remember very distinctly looking at all of these people, and they're sweating. They're doing everything they can. They're trying to impress the trainers. And, you know, this is where it does come into TV land a little bit. I didn't get to pick my team that day. I was told who I was going to be working with, and those people were pre chosen. Bob had his team, I had my team. We had our list. That's who we called. So even though I was running around that group looking like I was choosing them, I wasn't. And that was really, really hard for me because I fell in love with everyone. You know, you saw this desperation, this hope, this desire to change our lives, and to know that most of them were going to go home, that broke me. I mean, I just wanted to gather all of them up and be like, we can do this together.

You know, were you going to be incentivized? Like, they made, like, if your team won or your person won?

No. You know what? And that. That's interesting, but no, not at all. And, you know, in the beginning, Bob and I worked very, very well together. I will say I spent a lot of time trying to. To show people that I'm not Jillian. She was very, very challenging to work with on many levels. And I think people, when I came into the show, everyone, including Bob, had that stigma that that was who I was, and I wasn't that person. I don't do controversy. I don't do drama. I am a personal trainer at heart. And. And so when my focus was more on the contestants, and not on making good TV and drama. I think that was almost confusing for people and that that relays throughout the entire career with Biggest Loser. Whether it was a photo shoot or working with Preston Media, everyone expected the Jillian vibe and it wasn't good. It was really hard for me to kind of overcome and let people know that, no, I'm not here for the drama.

Hey, I really hope you're finding value in today's video. If you please hit that like button, it really helps to rank these videos so others like you can find this great information. Also, if you are enjoying the channel, make sure to hit the subscribe button. It's that little bell that pops up that lets you get notified anytime I have a new release. Thank you for being here and watching. If you've got suggestions for videos you'd like to see or interviews you would like to happen, please make sure you comment for me to see those as well. No, when we work with a client now, like, I know I don't even have to ask you this. I already know. Like, we know realistic fat loss. Like, we would say, I mean, were like, okay, maybe you have an initial jump that first week because obviously you're drastically changing your eating from unhealthy to healthy. You're, you're moving more. But I tell people, typically after that initial bump, like, there's always going to be a 5 to 7, like initial bump. Right. On average, we're about 2 pounds of fat loss per week for sustainable fat loss. So, like, I know that. That's like what we know in our brains. So how did. And I know it's a little also different for extreme obese, but what was your. Did you have a conflict in your mind, like ethically with that at all or how did you manage that? Or what was like, tell me what was coming because that's what would come up for me. And I think you're a lot like me like that. What was your thought process around that?

Well, you know, it's interesting because when you have someone who is 20 or 30 pounds overweight versus 200 pounds overweight, you're dealing with a lot of water, you're dealing with a lot of cleansing. Just the fact that these guys were eating and drinking enough water and eating the fiber, their systems were getting cleaned out. So, yeah, those first couple weeks were very clearly cleansing. And there's a lot of weight packed in there. Yeah.

Because you could have 10 pounds of poop in your bowels. Like you could have. Literally. Yeah.

Especially in those first couple of weeks because I knew a lot of it was just toxic waste leaving their bodies. What I was more thinking about as I went was the fear of the weight loss stopping, you know, and just being able to build that camaraderie. And it's very important for me to have my clients enjoy the journey. And that is very tricky to do when you are in the Biggest Loser. I mean, you think about the way that they worked out. They were so sore every day, and yet I had to get them out of bed and start the day all over again when they can barely move. So, you know, when it comes to my expectations, I really was, honest to God, taking it day by day because it was all just as new for me as it was for them.

Now, what was it like? Like, people on set with you? Like, you had camera crew, you had assistants, you had, like, all these people around, I'm assuming. Were they just not talking at all? Was there any interaction with them? Like, where did they stand on all this?

Yeah, zero interaction. So it was. It was a typical day would be. I would show up, I would go to my little house at the time, and they would do hair and makeup. I would pick out my wardrobe. They didn't do anything with wardrobe. I would pick out that, and I would get sent on to wherever I was going. The golf cart would pick us up and Bob and I would go, and we would stand and wait, and there'd be one person with a little walk in, and they would clear us to go. And then we would run into the scene, whatever it was. Obviously, if we were going to the gym, we'd know it was going to be, you know, working out if we were going on.

So we'd run in or go do this, and that's all you'd get kind of.

And that's it. There was very little communication. Everything was just go with it. And there was cameras everywhere. The camera people were amazing at their jobs, Amazing at their jobs. They were never right in your face, but the shots were right in your face. But you. They never felt like they were on you.

But it was. It wasn't what you would think of a TV show that is scripted and programmed in that way. It was the day just happened. And occasionally they would pull us out and say, okay, so and so has to go for an interview. That would be about as much as we would talk to anyone at all as so and so has to go to an interview. And that person would get taken away. So how long would you be there with the day?

Like, if so you what, like, give Us, like time, like, what time would you go in in the morning? And like, what were you there from the second they're waking up to, like, how did that work?

Yeah, so every day was different, but for the most part it was 12 to 14 hour days. And I would be there as the sun was coming up and I would be there well after the sunset. So. And in my second season, I drove two and a half hours to and from set. So do the math on that. Two and a half hours there, 12 hour day, two and a half hours home. It was rough. Really, really, really challenging schedule.

You're not even taking care of yourself at this point. Like, you can't really.

It was, it was insane. And you know, people think, you know, well, there's days off. There are no days off because on the days where the film crew weren't there, those were the days that we truly got to train, that we truly got to connect and go in and say, okay, this is what we're gonna do. There were no days off. The only time that the trainers had off is during the challenges or the weigh in days. So, yeah, it was, it was an intense schedule.

So you're like, you're literally Sunday through, I mean, you're the whole week. You're literally Sunday through Saturday all day. You maybe had a day with a camera's not there, but you're still grinding all day. So if you're not working out, you're in the kitchen. Is that like how. Or was it, was it truly they're working out all day long?

Yeah, no, it was, you know, we would have our structured workouts and then we would have times where it would be okay, structured meal and then it would be okay, so and so is going to go walk for two hours. So and so needs attention here. So and so has got to go see the pt. So and so's got it. So there would be times when everybody would kind of scatter and then that would be kind of my one on one time with people or just overall supervising and making sure that they would be moving, constantly moving, very, very little downtime.

Were they connecting with each other? Were you connecting with them? Like, did you get to know them as humans other than like, we're just here to lose weight?

Like, you know, Natalie, that's, that's really where I struggled when I first came in. I was a trainer and I was a nutritionist and that's what I would do. And the rest of it, I, I'm not, I, I was a terrible therapist, if you will. And it never even dawned on me. And I remember one time I was headed home and. And I got a call from production and they were just like, yeah, you got to be there emotionally for your clients. And I was like, what? And you got to remember this was 10 plus years ago. It was 2006. So, yeah, I was young. I didn't have kids, I didn't have a family. I wasn't. I wasn't in a place where I could coach people that were away from their families. And I wasn't in a place where I could relate and help on that psychology level, which I think was hard. But I. I didn't even try for that. Yes, it was. It was get to know them and understand them and listen and everything. But I wasn't there in an emotional way that I feel like some of the other trainers might have been. And I feel like if I would go back now after I have a family and I have my son, I would be really very different because I understand it from a totally different perspective. Yeah.

When you looked at. And I'm not talking about the documentary yet, but when you looked at the actual show that you were in, the seasons that you did, when you would watch how it was edited and came out, or did you watch how it was edited and came out, and if you did, did it really portray the way you felt those days and times were going?

Yes and no. Mostly no. You know when. When they film you for all day, every day, they have thousands of hours of footage. Thousands. And it was disappointing to not see some of the workouts that were so fun and so, like, just light hearted. I was so disappointed because I thought that that would be such good tv. But yet if there was one moment of tension that I knew would make air.

Oh, wow.

And I think it was in episode three. Three, where I kind of just broke. Like, literally. I had come in, I was a strong girl. And then I had a really bad morning with my contestants. We couldn't get up this hill. It was just this disaster. And I walked in the gym and I just literally couldn't keep it together. And I walked out and I just. Tears started flowing. That was the only time that I can ever remember where I felt the cameras. I mean, they came running, they loved it, every direction. And it was that moment that producers were waiting for. They. I mean, I would have loved to heard the walkie because it was like everybody in front of the gym, Kim is crying. It was that moment. And that to me, like, that was an important part to show on the show. Because it was good for people to see that I'm not some crazy superhero that doesn't have emotion, that doesn't understand, and that this isn't hard. It was hard. It was a really hard job. And it was very new to me, just as it was new, you know, to the contestants. Bob had been there for a while. He's. He'd known two seasons in, so he kind of knew what to expect. I didn't. But that was important, and I loved that they showed that. But I just wish so bad they would have shown so many of the fun workouts, because I think it would have put a totally different light on weight loss for people that, you know, don't want to get screamed and yelled at.

Yeah, I remember being interviewed, gosh, this is probably eight or nine, maybe 10 years ago. I got interviewed by a few producers that wanted, we're doing another fat loss or weight loss reality show. And they interviewed me. They wanted to create a whole series around it. And I was. They were asking about my approach, and they. They said to me, that's great. That's your approach. It just won't work for tv. Do you have a different approach that could work for tv? And I remember that really stuck with me. And I'm like, there's no way. I'm not. I can't do this. Because I realized then they want the drama. They want the. The gossipy stuff. They want the controversy. They don't want the real. The real stuff.

They don't.

They don't want that. They want the intensity and all those other things.

Yeah. And, you know, it's funny because you go back to the interview, and I think back to. I can't remember any of the interview questions other than one they said, have you ever made somebody puke? And I said, yeah, absolutely. And it was interesting because then when I trained a security police force when I lived in Italy, and the guys all had an absolute attitude, and that was when I was doing Galaxy. And I could run that obstacle course and flip over a cargo net faster than any. Any of those guys. And they were actually training for a obstacle course competition. So I was working with them, and they all showed up and they had a massive attitude, and within 10 minutes, I had three of them throwing up. And I was like, that's why I pulled the power card that day. And that was appropriate that day because I was earning respect. These guys didn't think that I could kick their butt a little bit, so I did, and I earned the respect, and we had a great time. Training after that. But that was the only question that I can remember answering on the biggest would give them any insight that I was even capable of that. Right. Because overall, they're kind of like the contestants. It's not hard to make them throw up. Let's just make that very simple. It's not hard. When you're that overweight, any amount of exercise, you're going to feel nauseous. Pretty simple.

So they had some pretty extreme, obviously weight loss. Whether it was the season you're on or any, there was extreme weight loss. And that's what people were fascinated. I. Where do you fall on, like in the documentary they really portray, like how unhealthy and wrecks your metabolism and there's just no, like, give us your top level thoughts around all that about do. I mean, do you think that it was unhealthy? Do you think it could have been done. Could have been done different? Like, I just love all of your opinions around that.

Yeah. And that's such a good question because honestly, no, I don't think it could have been done differently. What I had liked to have seen some of the trainers train a little differently. Yes. I don't, I. It really, really hurt me to have the screaming and the yelling and the offensive type of training, but I don't. Other than that, I wouldn't do anything different. I would train them just as extreme. I would diet the exact same way that they did. And I don't mind the numbers dropping rapidly because when you have so much weight to lose, two pounds a week is. You're never going to get there. You're just never going to get there.

Not at that. Not at that level. Not at that level. Yeah.

You're going to lose all hope. So. And you know, when you think about when we did fitness competitions, I would lose about 5 to 6% body fat. And the day before the physique round, I would lose about four to five pounds of water. And that's when you weigh a buck 15. You know, these guys, they're losing 10 pounds of water easily the day before the weigh in. So you've already got double digits in water. Fat cells hold a lot of water, get that water out, boom, double digits. So. And changing their diet so dramatically, the weight absolutely fell off. It literally fell off. And even though we did have a lot of extreme workouts and there was a lot of bursitis, there was a lot of, you know, aches and pains that probably could have been avoided, but it wasn't just the training. It wasn't just that hour of intense gym time, along with all the movement all day, there was the challenges. Those challenges were wicked. That is where a lot of the injuries came in and the over the over training came in. And most of those challenges, a lot of them were done very late at night. So they would have their whole day of movement and going, and then they would jump on a bus and be up till 4 or 5 o' clock in the morning doing the challenge and then start all over again the next morning at like 8:00am so that's, that's definitely where some of the kinks came in.

A couple of things I picked up on the documentary, they talked about the extreme calorie depletion. And from what you just said, you didn't have people on an extreme calorie deficit. Like, what was the. What was. Did you have a number in mind? You're like, I will never bring them under this. Or like, what was your thought process there?

Yeah, across the board, my girls were eating between 1200 and 1400 calories. And then my guys were usually between 1600 and 2000 and.

Which is fine. Literally fine.

Yes.

Yeah.

Plenty of calories to get the nutrients that you need. And I think what happens in a lot of people's mind when it comes to dieting, they think about calories and they think about diet food. There's no nutrients in foods that are advertising low calorie. But when you are eating, you can eat an insane amount of vegetables and protein and, you know, olive oil, even healthy fats. Yeah, you can eat all the things and get your nutrients. So there was no problem with the nutrients. I think the issues with the calories really came in when the contestants got kicked off the show and they went home and they had to do it on their own. And part of that was probably financial. You know, when I made the grocery list, the Biggest Loser didn't have a budget. We were eating filet mignon. We were eating all organic. We were eating the best of the best. And when they go home, that's an adjustment because you can't go out and buy a bunch of filet mignon and all the organic produce.

Yeah, that was definitely something I picked up on the documentary because here's the thing. Nutrient dense food is not the same as eating piles of M M's and fat free. Whatever. I'm not saying that that's what they were doing. But you cannot compare 1400 calories of real, nutrient dense, unprocessed, natural, real foods that are actually nourishing your body to 1400 calories or even of junk. And yes, if you're just calorie restricting and you're eating 300, 400, 500 calories of food, junk, nothing a day. I do think there's a big health difference there.

Yeah, I absolutely do. I mean, it is, it is night and day difference. So when they talk about calories, it kind of just, it misses the point. It really does. Because like you said, when you take away all the junk food that they were eating at home and the amount of calories they were eating at home, and you relay that into nutritious foods that are naturally low in calories, you're going to have a deficit. These guys had a caloric deficit like you would not believe. I mean, they were averaging about 30,000 steps a day and also getting their gym workouts, their strength training. So, you know, you're going to lose a little bit of muscle at that, at that, of course, level of deficit, which is to be expected. But the amount of fat that they also lose and the way that that reflects in their overall health, it's so worth it. It really is.

Yeah. So there was a lot of talk around, like protein powders or the caffeine controversy or supplements, like what was allowed, what was not allowed, and how did you know what you could do or not do?

And where do you call on your belief there? And I, I mentioned this on the stories because I thought it was so funny, but when I first started, I was just told it's all a whole food based diet. And at the time I was like, that's cool, that's pretty much what I do anyway. But it wasn't until I wanted to bring on protein powder and they were like, no. And I'm like, what, you, you're telling me I can't make a protein smoothie with these guys?

Yeah.

And Dr. Huizenga was like, nope, we're going 100 whole food. And I'm like, how exactly do you want me to do that? And his answer was ricotta cheese. And I was like, okay, never thought about that. But ricotta cheese does have a very, very similar amino acid profile as whey, so it's kind of brilliant. And he told me, actually, I never.

Would have thought about that either. That makes sense though. Yeah.

And he told me grape juice and ricotta cheese.

Okay.

And I'm not gonna lie, the first thing I did was try it. And it's not as disgusting as it sounds. It's definitely not delicious, but it's not as bad as you would think. Ricotta is kind of a mellow flavor, so it kind of takes on anything.

So it was a byproduct of dairy. It's like. So that makes sense.

Yep. So. So we used that for a couple weeks until I got protein powder approved. And, you know, that's. To me, I speak so highly about Dr. Huizenga because he was. I think he was right on literally everything. The way that he brought in sodium bicarbonate to help the contestants with their lactic acid, you know, it sucked for the trainers because, yeah, they're going to retain water from that. So, of course, we hated that part of it. But at the same time, they were able to train harder, and I supported that wholeheartedly. I thought it was. I thought he was awesome. So.

So you think you felt he really, truly cared and he was looking out for the best interest?

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And, I mean, when I first started, the very first day, I literally left the set and I was driving home and I was panicking. I was like, I am going to kill somebody. These guys, I don't know how to break down exercise any more than I was. And I felt like I was going to genuinely kill somebody. They just were not capable of the exercise. So I called him and I said, you know, how do I know that these aren't. They're not going to keel over and have a heart attack and die right there in front of me?

Yeah.

And he spent an hour and a half on the phone with me talking about all this test, the stress tests that they do on their hearts and everything they do to. Before they're allowed to come on the show. So that made me feel better. But, you know, it's. It was very controlled. Very controlled.

Are you surprised that no one did die on the show?

Oh, my gosh, yes. I'm not gonna lie. I was waiting. I was absolutely waiting for more broken bones. That first death, the. Yeah, I was waiting for it. And I didn't watch all the seasons. After my season, I just really, just didn't have. Didn't want to watch it. And I heard a lot of things because everybody always had to tell me everything that was going on on the show, whether I wanted to watch it or not. And it was scary. It was really scary. And I really, truly can't fathom that somebody didn't get more critically injured than they did.

When you look back on that show, Note, I'm going to ask you about documentary in a minute, but when you look back on the actual show, what are your overarching thoughts? Like, what do you want wish people know? Like what do you want them to know about you and the other trainers and the contestants? Just anything like where. What do you want everyone to know about the actual show?

I think the, the most important message to take away is that the show inspired millions and millions of people all around the world to see what the human body is capable of. It is capable of dropping that unhealthy weight. And it's, it's something that people love to hate and they either hate it because they want it or they're inspired by it. But it is at the expense of the contestants. And the way that I look at it is they were absolutely the sacrificial lambs of the inspiration. And those seven people that were under me, they did, they inspired an entire world. But they took the hit for it mentally and physically. Do you.

And we only saw on the documentary. Like who? Like the people that were on the documentary.

Right.

But did everybody gain back the weight from things, do you think? Do you stay in touch with anyone? Are people that change their lives forever from it? What, what's your take there?

Listen, the show had an incredible success rate. Despite what people love to talk about in the news. An average Diet has a 5% success rate. So anybody in the world, they start a diet, they have a 5% success rate of keeping the weight off. That's the reality. The Biggest Loser has about a 30% weight loss success. And that was one thing that you know, again we'll talk about on the documentary. But I would have liked them to have shown those success. And you know, there are so many people that were extremely successful. Did they keep off all the weight? Absolutely not. That's like saying I was going to get in competition shape and stay like I was on stage that night for the rest of my life. It's not realistic. But did they lose a lot of weight and keep off most of it? Yes. And to my mind that is a success. You know an interesting story on that that is, was a very big eye opening moment for me as a trainer is I had a client in or a contestant in season three and she got booted off. And I was coaching her via phone. And you know, I was, I had in my mind what my goal was for her. And she said to me one day on the phone, she said, kim, I am at my goal. She's like, I just did a triathlon. I went to the pool with my kids in a swimsuit and I felt good about myself. She goes, I'm done. I'm where I Want to be.

Yeah.

And that moment for me, changed. I was like, wow, good honor. That is the goal. That is the ultimate goal right there in my mind. She still had another 30 pounds to lose, but that was a real reality check for me, because the ultimate goal is, are you confident, do you feel good, and are you healthy? Forget everything else. And that's where people have to, you know, accept their own goals.

I have a lot of questions for you, just about weight loss and the fascination with it in general, but I'm gonna. I'm gonna come back to that in a minute. I wanna ask about your thoughts on the documentary and how everything was portrayed.

So when I first watched it, my first thoughts were, that was really well done because it is incredibly hard to show 17 seasons of what went on and really give it a.

Full perspective. I would have loved to have seen, of course, more of the trainers on there, but goodness, that's a whole nother documentary series in itself. I loved that Bob was the spokesperson of it. I was a little bit sad. Bob had so many moments with his contestants that were so light and beautiful. And then they show the one girl that's like, fuck you. I fuck your dog. You know, I was so disappointed that they showed that, because I'm like, that's not Bob. That's one out of a million with Bob. And then I did think it was interesting that they brought in the caffeine issue so much and. And, God, talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. It's caffeine. They act like it was hair.

Yeah.

You know, and it was so blown up. But again, that's what. That's the ricochet that that reality TV gets. It's because people want to believe that there's something wrong going on there, and that it's. You know, it's. It's crazy. And that caffeine is, you know, dangerous. And. Yeah, of course caffeine can be dangerous, but was it on the show? No. And I think it was really, really blown out of proportion. Not necessarily on the documentary, but just in general. So, you know, overall, I. I loved what the producers had to say. I thought it was pretty well done.

Mm. Do you? It's so interesting when I ask people what they thought of the show. I. I hear, like, it's kind of all over the place. Like, some people are like, it's really well done. But then there's this whole. Whole fascination and thought process around that it was. It was dangerous and it was hurting people. And how do you respond to that?

It was Dangerous. I won't even deny that, you know, it was. And again, it depended on the situation. But in my mind, the most dangerous parts were. Were most of the challenges.

The challenges were.

Were really pushed the envelope. But again, it's tv, you know, and people loved to watch that. I don't feel like the training was. And I speak for the majority of the trainers. Listen, I mean, I'm not even gonna lie. Like, y' all know I'm talking about Jillian. She did some dangerous stuff. I don't ever want to see somebody falling off the back of a treadmill and then getting back on like, that is inexcusable. But. And. And I'm friends with Jill. I have utmost respect for her at this point. I love what she's doing. I love the way she's using her voice. And she made damn good tv. She made great tv. But I. I do feel like there was some dangerous scenarios there. But overall, you know, but she did.

She did her job. That's what. That way I look like, you're. It's interesting. Like, so you weren't hired just to be a trainer. Like, you were hired exactly for TV and to be a trainer. So it's like, yeah, I can see that conflict. Like, you're like, okay, well, I've gotta show up and give the producers what they like. It's like there's this. I would imagine that would be hard for anyone like you.

You're.

It's not just. You're not just coming in as the trainer or the psychiatrist.

And the beautiful part of that is Jillian wasn't acting. She's a lit fuse all the time. That's her personality. So it's not like she changed personalities when the camera was on her. That was Jill. And I love that about her. She wasn't afraid to get in the producer's face and just be like, this is crap. In her own words, you know, And I think that that is. Has. Has made the show what it is. And I think she deserves a lot of positive credit for bringing that energy to the show, whether it was good or bad. It was something that really. It brought dynamic to the show. It really did.

A lot of people asked why she wasn't in the documentary, and I. I saw in one of her posts that she. It made sense to me that she didn't trust that they would edit it correctly. Like, she's. Like, I saw. See what they do with editing, and it could make her look a different way. Like, she could tell her truth and they might make her look different.

Do you have thoughts on that? Yeah, and I think, you know, that's. That's definitely TV in general. Absolutely. You know, and we saw that even on the editing throughout the show. You know, things might have been taken out of context or interviews might have been tweaked and left half. Now, that's. That's. That's magazines, that's tv. That's just media in general, for sure. But I do wish she would have got on there because I think she would have had a very interesting. An interesting perspective. But I can also respect where she is now, and she wants to distance herself from the show very much.

What's your take on the people that are saying we should have had aftercare? They kind of like, let us go. Your take on that. And then also on the main guy they featured on the documentary, how he clearly gained back all the weight, if not more. What are your thoughts around both those?

So in terms of the aftercare, again, as a personal trainer, I would love to have seen that, but that would be like saying after every one of those dating shows. So the Bachelor, do they all get to go home and get, you know, hooked up with a matchmaker? With Survivor, do they all get to come back to, you know, reality and get therapy? Because it's tough to be in the city versus out in the wild. You know, it's. It's ludicrous to think that NBC is going to take on 17 or 18 seasons worth of contestants and nurture them when they all need something different. They. Some of them were completely ready to go, and they know what to do. Some of them needed a lot of therapy to get through past drama and things that, you know, led them to their obesity. So they all need something different. So that aftercare, it's really, really unrealistic. I don't know what people think that. That they could have gotten from the show that they weren't able to go out and do for themselves.

Yeah, that makes sense. And then what about the guy that gained back all the weight and the ones that did like, what do you. What do you think?

You know, what? Heartbreaking. But I really liked him because he didn't push the blame. You know, he didn't say, this is because the Biggest Loser ruined my metabolism. I mean, God, if I hear that one more time, I'm literally going to project out of vomit. It's ridiculous. He literally said, my wife and I need to make some changes. And I loved that, and I really respected that. But, you know, to go through what he went through, I will be Honest with you, I can't ever understand and I will never be in a situation where I can fully understand how somebody can gain back that much weight. After getting the skin surgery and going through what he went through to lose the weight, I can see bringing back some of it. But to gain it all back, I mean, God, I wish I could just have a conversation with him and just be like, how does this happen in your head? You know, And I know Eric, which was the winner of season three, I believe, you know, he gained back the weight as well. And he says the same thing. He went back to his old lifestyle. And I very much relate it to taking a fish out of a dirty fish tank. That is sick. Putting it in a clean fish tank, it gets healthy, and then you put it right back in the same dirty fish tank, it's going to get the same disease.

Yeah.

So. But to make those environmental changes and to make those changes in the people that you hang out with and your job, you know, Eric worked at a deli, you know, all the things that you have to do to make those changes, it's hard. It is so hard. I would imagine it would be very hard.

Okay, let's talk about that metabolism comment, because I know that triggers both of us. So can you, can you? And I'm, I have a feeling we're probably kind of aligned on this. So I'm, I'm curious your thoughts around when people, people say that, because I hear that a lot, especially from past fitness competitors. Like, I hear it messes up your metabolism. Like, where do you stand on that? And what's your belief set around that?

You know, our bodies are absolutely amazing. They can fix, they can repair, they can recover. So when you do something for six months to a year, I mean, I competed for what, four or five years on and off? I mean, that's the same as extreme yo yo diet. Things are going to shift in the temporary. Your metabolism is going to drop because your body's smart. It says, okay, I need to put on some extra weight here. This is not my happy point. And you know that's going to shift a little bit. Your hormones are going to shift a little bit. Things are going to shift. But if done properly with keeping up with the proper nutrition, keeping up with the exercise, your body will repair itself. So when somebody says my metabolism was destroyed by this, this, this there, this just, it's, it's ridiculous. It's an excuse. It's a cop out. And it's something that people tell themselves to make them feel better and it's not true. There's no science behind it. The study that they did on the Biggest Loser contestants, again made me so frustrated because there was no control group. They took 14 of the contestants. And at what point does the obvious come in? Whereas if you are 200 pounds overweight, that means you're basically carrying a 200 pound dumbbell around everywhere you go, your metabolism is going to be through the roof. So naturally when you lose weight, you're no longer carrying that 200 pound dumbbell around every day. So yeah, metabolisms change as you lose weight. As a matter of fact, I was talking to a client this morning and she was like, hey, I'm going to go, I want to lose the next, you know, X amount of weight. She's lost 100 plus pounds. And she says, can I still stick with this? And I said, no, you need to bring the calories below 2000. We're no longer at the 2100 point. You gotta bring those calories down. And you know, that's where I think people, they just think that nothing's gonna change and your metabolism's not ruined.

Yeah. And I wanna, there's some, what I will say does change. And I know you know this as a woman in your 50s as well, like, what does change is we do need to be a detective over time. So like, what works for you at age 20 is not the same that works at 30 or 40 or 50 or 60. Like so, so what does change is you have to learn your body and adjust based on that. Like that. And actually also adjust based on activity level. So like, yeah, if you're not doing extreme things like we did in our 20s, like, you do have to adjust and eat differently.

And I want to comment on this. Like, the same people that say that they were super against fasting. Like, oh, if you fast you're going to break your metabolism. But now everyone's all about intermittent fasting. Or let's skip. Like, and then the same people are now into GLPs. Okay, well what's that doing to your metabolism then? And then the same thing. Like you could go to, I can go down the rabbit hole on any of these topics. Or they're eating every few hours versus eating twice a day. We, you and I learned, like you.

Have to eat every two hours or.

Your body's gonna muscle.

Yeah.

Which is completely not true.

Like, it's like, you know, you look at the things that have changed over time and the two main things are we understand blood sugar and microbiome a lot better and yeah. For years I taught we have to eat every three hours to keep our metabolism stoked. And I'm like, that's ridiculous. I completely. I. I teach that opposite now. Yeah. And then, you know, also the amount of data that we have available to us now, like, if I were to go into the Biggest Loser and do it my way, the first thing I would do is genetic testing. I know how to read blood profiles now. I would do the function, health, blood work. I would do the microbiome testing with my volume. There's all these pieces of the puzzle that, like you said, you can learn yourself. Now, that was not available back in the day. And it is such an amazing tool to be able to create, crack your own code. And listen, no doctor is going to do that for you. No insurance company is going to do that for you. But it's all available for you to do for yourself. And like you mentioned, you know, when you get into your 40s, 50s and beyond, your cells are very different than they were than when you were in your twenties. You're absorbing things different. Your receptors are, you know, kind of beat up a little bit. So you do have to make some adjustments. Yeah, I will.

I definitely eat less now older than I did younger, but I. My activity levels change, change too. So there's just like, it's just right, these tweaks, it's these changes. So, yeah, if I ate exactly the same and my activity level wasn't the same, I would do people say that, oh, that's your metabolism. I don't. That's just my. That's changed. My activity levels change.

Absolutely.

What are your thoughts on? Okay, so the fascination with extreme weight loss has not gone away. It is always going to be here. Like it is literally. I've seen it come and go in different ways. And the body positivity movement came for like a moment. Like a moment. And then GLP came along and that kind of went away again. So what are your overarching thoughts about this? Because to me, the Biggest Loser was just highlighting what we already have been fascinated with. And now I'm watching the same thing happen with GLPs. And I am not against GLPs, for the record. Like, I think they are life changing for some people. And I think it's just about being done right and working with the doctor. I have a lot of opinions, but I want to get your opinions around that and how that's going to shape this whole weight loss conversation.

Yeah. So interesting. And I'm going to shift the word GLP1s to peptides.

Okay.

Because they are a GLP1 is a peptide. And just to kind of break it down, semaglutide was really the first very, I guess, publicized GLP1. Do I like it? No, I do not like semaglutide. Do I like. What they have now is a GLP2, which is tricepatine. Yep. Yes. Do I like GLP3? Retruda Tide that is coming out probably next year. It's in phase three trials. I'm obsessed. I think it will change the world. Now, where the problem is with pharmaceutical GLPs is that they are being mega overdosed in a disgusting amount. I agree with that. I don't know how anyone can take it in the volume that they are prescribing. So there's no personalization really. It's literally inject this and good luck.

And have you seen, by the way, Kim, it's disturbing. Like, I'll scroll TikTok. And there's people. It's like they're cooking syringes and they're like, what's for dinner? And they're like, they're like highlighting an eating disorder. Like let's, let's glorify not eating.

It's weird. Yeah, it's really. So basically what's happening is people are trading obesity for sarcopenia. So you have no knowledge in how to maintain muscle. You don't even know what to do with. You don't even know that you need to do that. And here's doctors that are freely giving this prescription and people are literally trading one disease for another. And the aging population that is on the ozempic bandwagon right now, they're going to have massive problems. Now with that said, peptides are unreal. And I have spent the last time, four months heavily testing and trying and playing around with research peptides, which are a completely different ball game. Research peptides and we could do a whole podcast about this, but they are dosed very, very differently. They're micro dosed and with the latest glp, it works in three different pathways and it saves muscle, so it allows your body to burn more fat, it allows the body to stabilize blood sugar and it allows you to keep your, your metabolism just like absolutely anything. If you take it wrong, it's going to be toxic.

If you're talking about the three. Yeah.

So the retrutide. And like I said, guys, keep your eyes open for that one because, and.

I mean people are getting that now. I don't know how they're getting it. But they are, I hear people, everybody.

Yeah. Oh, there's so many places that you can get fantastic quality research peptides. DM me, anybody, if you want to know about peptides, because it is the way of the, the future. I have been able to achieve things in my personal goals that if I hadn't tried myself I never would have believed it. Never. And Natalie, I'm talking like the muscle goes up, fat goes down with the.

Retrutide, not which was appetite or retrutide, retruda tide.

And there's also things that are not GLPs. Like there's the AOD, there's fragment 197, there's a lot of different research peptides. And basically for everybody at home, listen, what peptides are, they're messengers. They're amino acids. A protein has a big chain of amino acids. A peptide has a smaller chain of amino acids. So these go into your body and they, they just little messengers. They say, hey body, you need to mobilize fat. Hey body, you need to repair this tissue. Hey body, you need to increase the collagen and elastin in the skin. These peptides are beautiful, amazing things that speak to your body speaking. So they're incredibly valuable. What I worry about is the greed of the pharmaceutical companies coming in and dosing these things wrong.

So here's my okay, again, I am not, this is not my expertise. I'm a girl with a mic right now who's just interviewed a lot of people. But my understanding in my belief set is I see two extremes with here that concern me and, and then I see there's this place in the middle where I feel like there's a great, great benefit. So what I'm talking about is I think for the obese population who really do have a GLP deficiency like they, they literally have because I do believe there, this is not about people being lazy or whatever, there is something wrong when you've got that kind of obesity. I think for that group I am super on board, medical supervised for, for that helping at the right dose. At the right dose. I'm going to say that like I said, I think it's extreme doses. I also think for a metabolically optimized person, like you're already doing all the right things, you're working out, you're lifting weights, you're eating unprocessed foods like you already are metabolically optimized. I think there is absolutely also a place for small doses of like you said, the trizepatide. I don't know Enough about retrurtide yet. But to help with things like blood sugar or dementia prevention or even now there's research around cancer, heart disease. So I think at tiny, tiny doses there is a place for that. However, what concerns me are two.

Very.

Well, there's three things that concern me. I should say three groups of people that concern me. Number one, people that really aren't obese taking these crazy high doses just to give themselves an eating disorder. That is hugely concerning to me. I think we're going to see a big rise in eating disorders, actually. I know I have, I've seen it on social media. I, I'm seeing a lot of that. Like let's glorify just not eating and make it like, oh, you're nauseous, you're sick, you're throwing up, who cares like what? That concerns me right there. The other thing that concerns me is this whole new group of people, using them, becoming coaches in it. I'm not talking about someone who's been an expert in fat loss, nutrition, whatever, for years now, adding that in. I'm talking about all of a sudden somebody starved themselves because they weren't hungry on it and now they're an expert and they're a coach. That concerns me.

And it's super concerning. And that's the same as diets. You know, it's like when you see these people that are successful on a diet and then all of a sudden they became that, they become that diet coach. You're like, you don't. What works for you isn't going to work for everybody else.

The other thing concerning me is you mentioned research peptides and I do believe like you said, there's probably some amazing sources, but that's also kind of sketched to me. I'm scared about that. Like, where are people getting them from? Who's the regulator of these? Like, what's going on? And then I said three things, I lied. There's four. The other thing is some peptides and I don't mean the GLP is very too or I don't know enough about that. But a lot of peptides, even like BPC 1 for 57, which I was a fan of for a long time, they're all growth hormones, they're all adding growth. So what worries me is if you're not metabolically under optimized or you have an underlying something like let's say you have a tumor that like it's going to grow everything. So it also concerns me that, so I feel like there's just so Much unknown in this whole topic. I don't know, maybe I'm completely off track, but that's my.

Yeah, no, and I think, I mean you have some valid points there, but they're very surface level. So you know what a lot of people don't understand about peptides is it's like anything else, you have to do your homework. You know, there's bad trainers and there's good trainers out there. If you go hire some trainer without doing your homework, you might end up in a crappy situation. It's the same with peptides. So compounding labs, you know, they've made, been made out to like somebody in their bathtub making peptides and they're not. So there is a certificate of analysis on every single single batch of peptides. If that's not being supplied to you, then you might want to find a new supplier. Like, that's, that's how you know that you are getting a clean peptide. But there are many, many labs out there that are doing really clean work and in terms of like, you know, the growth hormone. So most of the peptides that are going into growth hormone, they're not growth hormone. They're helping your body to secrete more growth hormone. So it just takes it to a more youthful level.

So like Semorelin or Ipermore, like some of those or like.

Okay, yeah, exactly. So and those are, you know, like CJC is one of my favorite. Cjc ipamorelin blend. Those are absolutely amazing for helping your body to just get back to where it was more youthful levels. There's really a lack of data that shows the cancer growth or tumor growth simply because there's no control group. And those studies, you can't really take somebody with a tumor and inject them with stuff. So there's really a lack of studies. But what happens is that idea kind of gets spun up and everybody goes, oh God, I'm not doing that. Because it's something that does require a lot of studying. It requires a lot of research, it requires a lot of passion. But I've seen it change lives a lot of, a lot of ways. And I've used peptides now with a lot of my clients. And I'm not just talking about GLP1s. I have a lot of clients that don't want to take the GLPs, but they're using some of the other research peptides and unbelievable achievable results.

Yeah, but again, your clients are metabolically optimized, right? Because you're so they're Doing.

Not all of them, though, but they're.

They're doing the right habits and that. That what concerns me is people that they're literally not doing the habits and they're just injecting it. That. That would.

Yeah, that's where it gets messy. It gets so messy. And. And that is. It's gonna be there. It's absolutely going to be there. But I think that that is very much in the media, and that's what we're seeing. The Ozempic face, the nightmares, you know, that's what we're seeing, seeing. But there's so many positive things that aren't being highlighted because they're not in the big pharma world. So I think that, you know, people have to have some hope that there's some really good things coming down the pipeline. And unfortunately, it's something that pharmaceutical world won't ever make money from. So.

Do you think obesity will go away because of these? Do you, like, if you. It's five years from now.

Okay, I don't. And that's like saying, you know, will homelessness ever go away? There are some people that just choose a different path, and there are a lot of people that are comfortable being obese. But for the people that come to me, I get the people that want to make changes. I get the people that want to lose the weight. They are willing to do just about anything because they want to get healthy so bad that they want to eat the. The protein to maintain their muscle, they want to exercise, they want to live a healthy lifestyle, and they just need the guidance. Where people get in trouble is they look for the magic pill, and there is no magic pill. You have to do the work on your end, regardless. And like I said, all these people that are going from skinny fat to just disgusting skinny and looking like skeletons walking around in Hollywood promoting this disgusting look, they're going to pay the price.

Yeah, it's all over TikTok.

It's crazy. It's a hot mess out there. And, you know, and yeah, people, they're going to pay the price. I'll just leave it. Yeah, that will not end well for them because they're trading one disease for another.

Totally. One more question about. About hormone replacement, because that was also something not very popularized during Biggest Loser times. Where do you fall on that? Do you do that yourself? Are you a fan?

I do. And, you know, with myself or my clients, it comes in layers. You have to first figure out your nutrition. Are you optimized with your protein? Then you got to come in with the layer of are your hormones optimized? And by that I mean every woman should be working with hrt. There's no reason to suffer and feel horrible as you go into the perimenopause menopause years. Bringing in progesterone, estrogen and testosterone are, in my opinion, pretty darn near essential and highly, highly recommend that. And then once you have those optimized, then you start looking into the biohacking and the bigger picture. Things that I think can be very, very powerful. But if you don't build that foundation, you're not going to get very far with the red lights, the cold plunges, the saunas, the peptides. You're not going to get anywhere with that unless you build that foundation. Yes.

So good, Kim. Where can they find you? Where can they learn more if they want to message you, if they want to understand more, if you've got questions, where should they go?

Yeah, so I always check my answer my questions and DMS on Instagram so you can find me at trainer Kim Lyons on Instagram. And then My website is KimLons.com and Lyons is L Y O N S and you guys can always reach me from my website as well. And I'm great about getting back to people. Like, I love that connection that, you know, I like to get on zooms with people and just jump on and that's amazing. And hear their story and, you know, work with them one on one. I think that's, that's something that the.

World needs more of. Thank you, Kim. Thank you so much.