Fashion Do's and Don'ts in Midlife with Wendy from Goodbye Crop Top

Today I've got Wendy, who created Goodbye Crop Top on here today. And I have been dying to chat with her because I've been following you on social media, Wendy, and I just love your content. I love that you are an anti aging activist. I love what you do for midlife women and how you just make it so fun and inspiring and motivational and you make it the opposite of doomsday, which seems to be the trend around the midlife thinking.

Good. Well, that's my goal. So that's good to hear that it's with you. The opposite of doomsday. There's certainly enough of that out there. So. Yeah, yeah.

So I want to take it back a little bit. Like first of all, what made you even want to start speaking into this topic, starting a podcast around it, creating social about it? What was the turning point that made you want to do that?

Yeah, yeah. So my career was my formal career, you know, career, if you will, was in advertising and marketing for many, many years, like 28 years. And I took a little break. I had a baby really late in life at 46, which is my third daughter. And I took a beat after that. And I've always loved to write and I've always loved style. And I just said this in another interview that, you know, under my bed has always been stacks of style and fashion magazines next to my short stories and poetry and copious notes that I always, you know, like to do in my spare time. And I was looking in my late 40s for any kind of, you know, inspiration or pick me ups or that kind of thing about around style. And what I was finding out there five years ago, five years in November since I started Goodbye Crop Top was either, you know, doomsday on either side. There was sort of this chasm in the middle. And one side was, I can't look my age, how dare I look my age, you know, and I'm going to try to look 30 and be 30. And then the other side of it was, you know, all the things that really start happening in midlife. Sick parents, divorce, empty nest, death, sagging body parts, all this menopause, you know, and all this stuff. And I'm like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. There's this, there's this place for us that was not being recognized. And I just decided to start writing about it and speaking up about it because I personally was feeling my best in my late 40s. So.

When you were feeling your best in your mid-40s, did you have moments of questioning, feeling Your best because of what people talk about with midlife and aging.

God, I mean, I don't want to sound. Look, my life's not perfect. It wasn't then, it isn't now. I have my challenges. That's not the point, really. But no, I really was feeling so good about and empowered and smarter and better. And, you know, I hang around with beautiful people who I never leave feeling bad about myself. I don't go down the rabbit holes of, oh, I wish I had this or that or comparing myself.

And I didn't always do that, but I definitely was doing that later in life. So, yeah, I mean, I have my moments. God, of course. But I felt really good. And my girlfriend said to me after a hike, wendy, not all of us feel this way, you know, and you should talk about it. And at the time, at least from what I could find, there wasn't a lot out there. Now there is, and it's, you know, the voice is getting louder. And I'm really happy about that because that's what we are.

It's interesting you say that, you know, you. You don't want to sound perfect because you have your things, but you were feeling really good. I sort of found that same thing that I was feeling really good. But what I was running into is people were very circumstantial, like, well, you don't have my circumstance. You don't have this. And what I started to realize is that it really. The people that are throwing. Thriving in midlife. And I'm curious if you see this too, maybe you don't, but the people that are thriving in midlife, it was almost a decision when they were younger that they weren't going to be what society makes midlife out to be. It was almost this decision. And because I do see a very.

Strong divide between people that are like, no, I'm. It's my best ever. I see this as such a great opportunity. I'm reinventing myself. I'm, you know, I feel more free. I feel these things. And then you see this other side that they go through depression and anxiety and all of the other things.

And what I find is there's so much in there that's a decision that came earlier.

I think everything is a decision. Right, of course. But behind that decision has to be your will and what you're doing and what you're looking for. And I've never been that person to look for a quick fix or, you know, a solution in a. In a body cream or, you know, I've never been that person. So yes, everything is a decision. But then how are you backing that decision? You know, And I know there are varying levels, many different levels of depression and sadness and all stuff. So I really want to put that caveat on there. I know some people are in really dark spaces and that's very real. So we're generally speaking here about making this decision. And I think, yeah, I mean I, I made a decision.

You know, probably in my mid to late 30s to just not let it bother me. I mean the, you start to notice the psychology that, you know, the psychological manipulation that's going on, you know, from the patriarchy, quite honestly, like, and I'm like, I'm not buying into that. That can't feel better. Right. Yeah. So what does. And what does that look like? And.

Yeah, so I would say I definitely was insecure in my 20s. I still have my moments of insecure. All do. We are human. But yeah, I think I started thinking about that a long time ago.

Do you think having, because you mentioned three kids, you had one later. Do you think that helps keep you young to having young kids like that or having a kid?

I don't know, I'm feeling she either keeps me young or she's making me really old. Really at 54 with an 8 year old. That's a whole other. But yeah, I think it keeps me young. I think it's a, you know, it is a mentality. And I, and I say this often, but I've had some big losses in my life, people, human beings, and I know that that's not what I want. And this whole. So I'll address the kids in a, in a minute. But that's going down kind of a, kind of a tangent here. But this whole like anti aging thing just makes me crazy because that means I'm dying. So this is a war you're never going to win. This is futile. You know, this is not. You're not going to. You're going to age, you're going to tomorrow and if you're lucky enough, you will have age today. So, yes. What are you gonna do with that? Right? I mean.

But yeah, I think the girl. I have three daughters and that's a whole interesting topic in and of itself, like I said. But yeah, they keep me young and they also keep me really motivated to set a good example and to leave a footprint here that says, you know, you have something to look forward to if you want to make that decision and back that decision with the right measures. Yeah.

So I don't like anti Aging either. I don't like the term of it. I'm much more of a pro aging. So I loved your term about. As a kind age activist. Can you tell me more about what that means to you and how you even came up with that, being an age activist? Yes.

Well, I mean, like I said, when I started out on this, you know, mission or whatever it is that I do, I saw nothing. So I'm like, we've got to get active here. You know, we've got to change the narrative, but not only the narrative, but the. Sorry. Not only the narrative, but we've got to change the thinking, you know, and. Is it a chicken and egg thing maybe? No. Does the narrative change the thinking? Does the thinking change the narrative? All of the above. But I just. I'm asked all the time, what do you do? What's your title? What's your. You know, And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. I'm a person who like the courage, I guess, to come forward and talk about this and try to. To help other women. But it's just the thing that made sense.

You know? Yeah.

Well, I love it because traditionally, so much you see online in our age range speaker space is the fighting of the age. You know, like the fighting of it. It's either, you know, everybody has their own life of what they choose to do there. But to me, that never felt uplifting or motivating to watch people talking about how to, you know, basically just completely stop it. And it's interesting cause I have. I have two books out in stores and my second book, I actually cringe at the title when I know what I meant when I did the title, when I wrote the book. And this information is still good. But I think so differently now because the book. My title of my book is Aging in Reverse. And if I could do it again, I would title it something different because I don't actually want to age in reverse. So it's just interesting how I was thinking that and I realized how much marketing is around that everywhere about fighting at anti aging, this anti aging cream, anti aging everything. So we set ourselves up to feel defeated right away. So what caught my eye so much about your social was actually the opposite of that. Just embracing it and making it still fun and attractive and appealing and the beginning of something versus the doomsday end.

Well, thank you for that. Yeah. And that's. That's exactly what I'm trying to get across, is that, you know, it's. It is the beginning of Something and every day is the beginning of the rest of your life. So, you know, if you wake up with that mentality and it's never too late, like that's another thing I say is it's, look at all these people around us and that are doing, you know, getting master's degrees in their or changing jobs. And I know that's still hard. That is hard, you know, because an advertising world, we're at 54. I would have been like grammar. I mean, like, get out of here. Yeah. With 28 year olds making decisions and hopefully that's getting better and with all of this and getting louder, hopefully all of that's changing. But yeah, I mean, it is, it's a new chapter and I think, you know, one you cannot fall prey to, to, like I said, this manipulation that's going on with the media and everywhere you look, look younger, feel younger, be younger. It is not in a bottle. It is not in a pill. It's not, it's, it's, it's in you. And the things that, that make you feel good are free. I mean, you know, you're, you're a health expert, nutrition. Like move your body, drink your water.

Yeah.

Some spiritual practice. Nourish your food. Yeah.

Nourish your body with your food. Yes.

Mind. Keep your mind related. And then like a really important one is who are you hanging around with? Why are you so good, so bad about yourself? Right?

So good.

I don't, I don't have a friend that I leave, I don't have, that I walk away from. I have so little time anyway that I don't feel better. And I hope they do too. You know, I hope the reciprocity is there that, that we both feel good. But what are you reading? What are you looking at? Who are you hanging around with? And just change that.

So good, Wendy. You know, it's interesting too. I don't know how you feel about this, but when I look at somebody that is in, that's my age or older that I find attractive, it's not a physical attraction. It's something about them that's captivating. Because I'll look at a woman that has wrinkles and they're gray or whatever, it doesn't matter. It's who they are that makes them actually attractive. And then I'll see the opposite. I'll see someone who's in, call it their 70s and they've had all the work done on their face and they're completely. And they're not happy and they look just like they're really old with a lot of work done. It's like a different. But I find what I'm drawn to, what I find is attractive is that person that's living all those things that you said when they've just really embraced it and they're really enjoying their life and they're not letting it define them.

Yeah, it's so true. I mean the skin deep thing is, is really true. And I find the same thing. I mean I'll look at someone and go, wow, that person's to beautiful. And you know the person. Oh, I don't see it. I'm like, I don't know, I can't, I can't help you.

What's funny to me is when someone says, says to me, and you probably get this too, if they say you don't look or you don't act your age. And to me, I know they mean it as a compliment, but I always, my initial thought is, what's it supposed to look like? That's how conditioned we are. Like, why did they think we have to look or act a certain way because of the age we are. It's not a compliment for me. So think they were. I was a lot younger because of that. I'm like, no, let's redefine this. Like, how do we have more women that are in our age range experience that we should define what that looks like and what that is exactly.

What does that even mean? I don't know. I mean, I don't even think about my age. I honestly don't. I. And I don't. I just don't. I feel good. I don't. And a lot of what you just said, you know, comes from comparing yourself. And someone just asked me, who's your competition? I'm like, I don't know. I don't know. Well, I don't know. Probably the, you know, definite sector of I don't know because I don't look around. I just do my. I make sure I'm doing what feels good in my heart and what I think will help. And I go to sleep at night and I don't look around because, you know, it's that old quote which is so overused now, but Theodore Roosevelt, that comparison is the thief of all joy in every direction. It will of your life. True is toxic.

So how did you come up with this? The name, that cute name. Goodbye crop top and tell me your feelings on it. Like, like what do you do? Are you really, like, there's no. Women should not be wearing crop tops. Or is it more just that, like, I'm just curious that it's such a cute name. And what is it? What does it mean to you? What do you want it to mean to people?

I wear a crop top sometimes. It's to be funny. It's intended to be funny and a metaphor of, you know, maybe a slight suggestion of what to let go of, what to hold on to as we. As we move into the next job. I don't care if you. Here's. I. I came up with it because I.

I pulled something of my daughter's out that I thought was my daughter's, and it was my top from the drawing, what else had put in there. And I went, oh, my God. Crop top. It's now a crop top. Yeah. Goodbye to those. And I was in the process of sort of birthing this, and I went, oh, that's kind of funny. Goodbye. It's really good. And I ran it by a number of, you know, people from my old marketing world, and a couple of them went, no, no, no, no, no. You need to do more, like, conservative. And I'm, oh, I love it. I'm like, just go for it. And it's kind of catchy. So it's intended to be funny, definitely not serious. And most people are getting that now. In the beginning, I was like, ages. Like, what are you telling? I'm like, no, no, no. It's supposed to be funny. If you scroll through my feed, you'll see me in a couple couples of. Not. Not extreme crop tops, but maybe an inch or two. So that's how I came.

Talk to me a little bit about your. Your kind of. Your advice and your rules on style. Cause I do know. I do think women struggle with that. I'm going to struggle. I struggle with it, too. Like, for me, I feel young. I feel just like you. I don't feel what people traditionally put as age 51. I feel really good. And I want to dress like my daughter. Sometimes I just do. Like, she's 15, and she laughs at me and makes fun of me when I do it. And so I kind of. I get that in my head sometimes. What should I be wearing?

Or what's.

What's the ideal for my age? And then I have my. My mom's voice in my head from when I was younger that would say things like, you know, be age appropriate. You shouldn't have long hair. All those things. I'm just curious your thoughts on style in general, and what do you want women to know about it so they can look and feel their best.

There's so many things. I mean, I could go on and on about this, but I don't know if you saw the recent.

Video Iris Atfield did, and she just said, you.

Know, I loved it. I saw it. Yes.

Fashion is a business, and style is personal. They're two very different things. Right? You can buy fashion. Anyone can buy fashion. You cannot buy style. You cannot purchase. It is. And that's why I always say style is substance.

Right.

And there's so many different tentacles from. From that. But I know it's hard, and it's. Actually, I want to address the fact that it's hard as our bodies are changing and the fight is real, you know, to. But.

You know, a few things. Less is more. Quality over quantity. Every time.

Pick one thing, whether it's a ring or a necklace or a bright pair of shoes, make. Pick one thing is my. Is what I like.

What do you mean, pick one.

Like, one thing is a staple thing, One statement piece. You know, I think people like every ornament on the tree, and it's like, whoa, I can't even.

I know what you're talking about.

Yeah. So less is more all the way around. I mean, I have a list of staples I think every woman would benefit from having in their closet. Because you can add on from there. Dress for yourself, don't dress for other people. I mean, there's certain trends. I'm like, that looks great. I could. That does not feel comfortable on me.

And there's some of these little House on the Prairie dresses that are in all the stores right now. Does not work on me. I know that for sure.

Yeah, I'm 5 foot 10 and, like, not small. Didn't know. But, you know, if you put it on and you don't and you go, that's not even a smidge of you is thinking, that does not feel good. You'll. It. You'll walk in a room, Everyone will know you're not comfortable in what you're in. Everybody benefits from you wearing things that make you comfortable.

You know, that's actually a really great tip right there. I don't want to let that go unnoticed. That's actually because I think that's very common. We put something on like, it's in style. We should be wearing this, or this.

Is what I should be.

And we feel a little uncomfortable, and then we buy it anyway because of that. And then you're right. You walk in a room and you're uncomfortable and tugging at it the whole time. You're exactly right. That's a great tip.

I think whatever puts a spring in your step, you should wear that. And I wrote a piece, an essay a couple years ago about Thanksgiving. And, like, everyone feels like they have to dress like they're going to a fox hunt. You know, it's like the furry gloves and the orange sweater and the whatever and. No, just. If you want to wear a black slip dress for Thanksgiving and that makes you feel good, wear it, because you'll be, you know, in a better mood.

Because I remember back in my early 40s and late 30s, I always host Thanksgiving. I love that holiday. And looking for the perfect Thanksgiving. Autumn colored. Yeah.

Brown or orange or. Yeah, we all do it.

Yeah. Like, I just wear what you want to wear.

You know that.

What is.

You mentioned you had some staples. Are you open to sharing some of those? Like, what should every woman have always I.

A crispy white shirt or 10. I think I have, at any given time, six different variations of a good white shirt.

Okay, so you mean like T shirt.

Or blouse or just. Just. Well, that. Different category. This is like, you know, one oversized. Like maybe a Brooks Brothers white men's shirt.

Okay.

That you can tie up or French tuck or wear over, whatever. And then there's a. There's a brand I love called Frank and Eileen, and I love the woman behind. I just love everything about them, but they're the best white shirts. Zarena X I R E N A. I think I'm saying that right. The best white shirts. Button downs. Talking about white. I have to have five or six because I'm a spiller. So there's just always. It's. I always travel with an extra one of those. Roll it in my bag. That is a must for me. Good white T shirts. One or two of those. Good. A good black T shirt, a solid black turtleneck. You cannot. You cannot ever go wrong. A black blazer, some kind of houndstooth blazer. And I like to have a white blazer.

Okay. I'm just realizing I have not one of these things that you've said. So I have some work to do. Explain a lot.

Denim's really personal, but like, vintage denim, I like repurposed denim.

And.

So that I think if you start there, like, most women can get rid of in their closet and just go, okay, I'm starting fresh palette, Right? And then I have in my closet what I call the fairy section, the fairy dust section.

Okay.

Maybe a glittery kimono that I love that's vintage. I have my turquoise pieces. I have I like watches, I like vintage. I like antique watches. I have a couple of those I have.

That's like. That would be like your staple piece. Like you're saying if you were to wear one, that would be the thing you'd wear that day.

Yeah, I like.

So I have a couple of hats and, you know, everyone can find what they're drawn to there. I think whether it's gold or turquoise or whatever. I like a little bit of everything. So you have your fairy dust section. And then for shoes. If I could live in flip flops every day of my life, I would. And I love flip flops and a blazer or a sweater.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, all year round. Like big baggy jeans and black flip flops and a big cashmere sweater. But, you know, usually if you're wearing cashmere on top, you need a boot on the bottom. I love good sneakers, a good sneaker, a good flip flop, a good boot or two. Couple good cashmere sweaters and you're off. Yeah, I mean, dress. A good black dress.

I love. It's really sticking. What you said too, about just one staple piece, not over. I remember I used to. My mom probably still does it. She would always have her pur. Her lipstick and her handbag. I mean, her purse, her shoes and her lipstick always matching. So if you like red at all or pink. So I always thought. I always laugh when I'm putting stuff together and I'm already going to the matchy thing. But I like your idea of just one stable piece of you have fun shoes on or you have fun necklace on. Like that's the thing. And everything else you can keep neutral.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

I love that. What do you want?

I mean. But hey, and I should say this. If you like to drape on 64 necklaces and a headband and sparkly shoes and 10 rings, wear that.

Okay.

Does it go? Well, it goes back on it.

Yeah, if it feels you and you want to.

Yeah.

So I was just going to ask, is there anything women should not be doing? But it sounds like the only thing you're going to say is that if you feel uncomfortable in it because everybody else will feel it.

I really think that. I mean, I.

And you feel comfortable in it, by all means, wear it. And I mean that. Like, I can look at all different types of style and I don't turn my nose up at anything, you know, at all. I mean, if, if. If anything. And I wouldn't turn my nose up at this. But if someone was fidgeting around going, what Should I. You know, I would go, let's get you out of the fidget mode and into some things that are comfortable for you. But I respect all kinds of style. I want to be very clear. I mean, you're me. Staples for the closet. To me, that's a good starter kit. It might not be to Iris Apfeld. That would be so boring.

Yes. Because she's fast and I love that. What you were. I just remember just looking at her post recently.

Yeah, do.

And she's 101, right? She's 101.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, as I'm talking you. Not everyone sees this on video, but you've got these great glasses on. Any advice on that, on finding the right frames for yourself? Because most women are our age are wearing glasses or have them at least for reading glasses.

Well, I have a lot to say about that, too. But I have horrible eyes. I have since grade school. So I wear progressive lenses and I'm not a good candidate for contact. So I have to wear like the one for reading and the one for distance. And I. Not a chance. I tried it for 30 days. Okay, I maybe tried it for 30 days.

I did that Lasix and it was a big mistake. It completely screwed up my site where you do the Monovision. Yeah. So I still have to fix that on me.

So I wear glasses. And back to our point of one thing, a lot of time that's my accessory or just my glasses. But, you know, readers have gone crazy out there. I love Caddis C, A, D, D, I S. And I've worn them since they very first came out. That's a great fashionable brand. And they'll take their frames and put your lenses in them. Now I think I have.

Pardon me, Cattus, if I don't, but I love the people behind the brand. I love their frames. So Caddis is a great place to go.

What I'm noticing about yours is how it shapes your face and you guys can't see. But, you know, as we age our faces where when we're younger we have like this fullness on top. We all. I. A lot of women notice that, but I. What I love about your glasses, it makes sure it changes your. Your face looks so youthful with them. It's like you have this. Yeah, she's got. It's almost like. I don't want to say cat eye. It's not a cat eye, but there are these wider lenses on top.

Yeah. Thank you.

Flattering.

And to that point, the other day I put out, I found these big yellow, you know, Retro, huge sunglasses, like a teardrop kind of a shape. But I mean, I ordered them. I'm like, I got to have those. And I didn't even really try them on. I just kind of put them in my little stack I have. And I went out the other day and I put them on. I went, oh my God, it pulled my face down to my ankles, you know, like, that is not worth it really does.

They can really change your face in the wrong way? We do that. What's your feeling on women that do I have a feeling. I know you're going to say, but I'm curious, what's your feeling on all the, like these anti aging things like Botox and fillers and surgeries and all that? What, what do you feel about all of that?

I go right back to where I go with clothes. Whatever makes you feel good, whatever genuinely makes you feel good. And always question the why. Why are you doing it? Are you doing it because the ladies you lunch with every week, you know, have 10 times their lip volume that they used to and you have to. Or do you have a huge, you know, crease between your eyes and you would love your whole life you wanted to get rid of that because you feel it makes you look a little sad or, you know, heavy around the brow? I think I. It honestly goes back to everything I've been saying. I don't judge people. And I think, you know, how do I say this without sounding like it's not judgment? I think if you're walking in a room and people are going, holy shit, what have you done to yourself? You may question like, yeah, whoa, you know, but if you walk in a room and it's not about what other things it really is about, but that's our gauge, that is our big mirror, you know, but it's about what, how you feel inside. But if you sit down with your buddies and they say, wow, you look really well rested and great and amazing, you know, and happy and whatever, then your secrets should remain your own. And I think that just question, understand why you're doing what you're doing. And if it makes you feel good, do it, like, and you can afford it, do it. I don't care.

I love everything that you're sharing and I love your energy and I love how, how passionate you are about all this. What, what have I not asked that you want women to know?

I don't know. I mean, I think to touch on all that stuff. I just think there's far too much judgment out there and there's Far too much comparison out there. And if I can encourage one thing, it's to go in instead of looking out, you know, and spend some time with yourself in a good way, in reflection, in literal reflection in the mirror and reflection inside and go, what would make me feel better? What do I really feel good in when it comes to style, but like, stop judging. I think it is just horrible. It makes me so sad that how judgy women still are some people. I think it's getting better. And I don't put myself in those crowds often, but hear a lot in my community from women that it's just really sad. Like those people to the curb. I don't know, like what for the.

Woman listening right now, that is feeling very judged. And in that they're not, they're not living their best life in their 50s. They're feeling like this is. I hear what you're saying. How do I change? Would you. Is there a piece of advice you give them to start?

Where would you want them to look deeply at the people you're hanging around with? I mean, I keep going back to that, but yeah, you know, a lot of it is inside you too, but you know, the, the company you keep is everything. I mean, it is everything. And, and where you look, what goes in you, right? What goes in your eyes, what goes in your mouth, what goes in your ears, all of it. What you're listening to, what you're looking at, what you're eating, who you're devouring time with. You know, like, look at that.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's. What you're saying is so powerful. I noticed even with myself, my gym that I've been going to for years closed and I joined this new gym and every time I go, I would feel like bad about myself and I couldn't figure out why. I'm like, why do I feel so bad? And what I realized was the gym is a super, really, really young gym. A lot of teenagers, a lot of 20 year olds, a lot. And I didn't even like really connect the dots because I think of myself as a pretty confident person. But I switched and joined a gym where everybody's my age and older. And it was like a whole, it's a whole new world. It's like so it's, it's really subtle, these little things, but like who we're hanging around, what we're around, it does aff us.

That's the company you're keeping. And I. It. That's it, that's it. You know, you made the switch and how much better you feel. Yeah, for me, I look around at younger women or, you know, where their ass is still 10ft in the air.

And I just don't. I just almost go. I just wish I could download a lot of this into your mind. Like, I don't. I, I literally, not one ounce of my being goes. I wish I was back there.

Or no, I don't.

Either jealous of her body or her. I just don't.

I am where I am. I am who I am. I am my age. I, I don't want to be in an urn or a box. So I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna live. And.

I, you know, I think there's. There, There are plenty of places to go where you are, you know, reading good things, listening to good things, hanging around with great people and just really consider your resources. To answer your question, I guess that's. That would be my.

So good. Wendy. This is so helpful and so inspirational and I love everything you stand for. Everyone listening right now. Make sure you go and follow her on social media is. Where would you. Where is the main place you want them to go? Instagram.

Yeah.

Okay. And it's goodbye, Crop top. Correct. And then tell, tell us about your podcast a little bit so they can find you there too.

Well, I started my podcast a few years back and I was doing interviews with some pretty cool people, so there's two seasons of that on there. And then I, I took a break and I came back with a five minute podcast that's on Mondays and it's just, it's called Cropped a Midlife Minutes and it's five minutes of hopefully good, positive, like you said, enough doomsday out there. So good, positive words to send you forth into the week.

Yeah, that. Wendy, thank you so much for being here. This is fabulous. I hope everybody listening goes and follows her. You will not be sorry that you did such motivating information. She's got great tips that she shares and she is a midlife thriver like all of us. So I. So thank you for doing this today.

Thanks so much for having me. I'll talk to you soon.