Ep 04 Money, Mind, and Stillness A Conversation Ted McLyman

Welcome to Remembering the Forgotten, where we return to what the world taught you to forget. Today, I'm joined by Ted McLuhan, someone who has spent a lifetime exploring why we do what we do with money and how behavior shapes every financial decision we make. Don't we know that? He's a reformed financial advisor who tells the truth. A thinker who simplifies what others complicate. A guide who helps people understand themselves, not just their spreadsheets. So we are 2 humans in an unguarded conversation, listening past the noise and inviting you to remember who you are beneath everything you were taught to be. With that, welcome, Ted.

Markus, it is a pleasure. I mean, that's quite an introduction. Thank you.

It fits the bill, right?

Yeah. Oh yeah. Well, my wife doesn't think so, but I do.

That's the most important thing, you believe it. So before we begin, just so you know, when I say stillness, I don't mean peace or quiet. You know, many people believe it's like meditation. I mean the place in you that is untouched by pressure, noise, or performance. It's the place that knows before the mind thinks. That's the layer I'm inviting you to speak from today.

Absolutely.

So we will have a wonderful time.

Yep, I agree.

Absolutely. Sure. Because when you look at what I just said underneath the mind, for quite a few people, this basically stirs a blank stare. What is underneath the mind? Our society is so mind-driven and controlled, isn't it?

Oh, absolutely. You know, when you mention that, I know you're a runner. I've been an endurance runner forever. I was a triathlete. And it hit me that some of my happiest times and some of my most productive work were out there by myself in the zone, if you will, doing something kind of challenging, but it didn't feel it. I felt lighter on my feet. And I had these epiphanies that came from somewhere that turned into books and observations. And at the end of the day or the end of that workout, I just went, wow, that was amazing. And I think that's a unique capability we all have as humans. I find it interesting that most people don't try to touch into that.

You know, it's interesting. I believe it has a lot to do with how we understand words and how we interpret them. So when people speak about soul, when people, people speak about intuition, What we really mean is stillness. And stillness is literally something that's inherently available in every person.

Oh yeah. And I think there's another observation. It just hit me. Stillness also employs a void, a void in the sense that it's an opportunity. And I think in a busy life, when we don't take a look at what's going on around us. We ignore that. When again, I think some of my most clear moments is not when I reject that stillness, but I embrace it. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Yeah. What is for you stillness?

Oh, wow. For me, I try to spend every day Reflecting in the morning and then at night to figure out how the two came together. And I'm always amazed at all the little ankle-biter things that happen. Like in my case, I've got a website that is just imploding on itself. Okay, this is not the best time of the year. That's pretty cool. But, but I could let my head blow up and get all concerned about that. When I really have no control over it. None. And my limited technologies is my keyboard, and that's about it. So I have to sit down and breathe, count to 10, and go, what can I control? How does this become an opportunity? How do I deal with this? And then that— and go back to your point again about stillness. If you can go back to that place— Factor out the static, clarity does come forward. And I hope I'm answering the question, but so many people I know, these little trivial things that mean nothing in the grand scheme become overpowering and all-encompassing, which puts them in a position to forget what the real goal is, what the real intent, what we're really here to do. And I, I think, again, I go back to my background, I go back to other things I've done, being with a lot of other people. That should be the default, not the other. Does that make sense?

It does. It does. So if somebody asks, does everyone have stillness accessible? What do you say to that?

Well, if I ask somebody that question, and I know you do this for a living, I would get this contorted look. And then they'd look at their phone again. You know what I mean? And I think that's one of those very thought-provoking questions that people interpret it a couple of ways. First, they have their immediate definition of stillness, which is don't move, you'll get hit by a car. Okay, stand still.

Mm-hmm.

And then most people do not take the time to dig down a little bit What does it mean spiritually? What does it mean psychologically? What does it mean physically? They may have a different word for it. But when I talk to people about that, or that whole construct, you have to explain it to them.

Uh-huh.

Because in our get-it-done-now society where more is better and I don't have time for anything else other than things that are often irrelevant, That type of thinking, which I think we should do more of, I find that is the exception, not the norm. And I find that my personal quest is find people who have stillness. And when I say, do you have stillness, you understand what I'm talking about, not what I just described, but what you're talking about. And that's the close group of people that if you spend the time to build the relationship, will open up ideas, constructs, ideas, opportunities that you would not be receptive to if you didn't have the proper definition of stillness.

It's really interesting. So if I ask you, Ted, do you believe that basically every person would have access to what I call stillness?

Yes. And I think you start that way. And I would submit Yeah. And I would think it becomes polluted, if you will, or manipulated with all the outside interference, which is, which is a component of modern life. I'm— you mentioned in the introduction that my thing is human behavior, and it is. I mean, in everything we do, behavior matters all the time, every day.

Mm-hmm.

We are emotional beings who think we're not thinking. beings with emotions. We sometimes forget that our brains are designed to keep us alive. Our neural systems have one thing in mind: stay alive, chase an opportunity, pass on the genes. That's our natural state. And most of it is nonconscious, automatic, and always emotionally driven. Where we get into a conflict, in my opinion, and it could be talking about money, it could be talking about relationships, it could be, you name it. The default is I'm human. My amygdala fires. There's a millisecond gap. My frontal cortex engages. I have a little opportunity for an interrupt to make a little bit of a decision. But the default is if we're just blind to everything around us is the default, which is drive forward. And that's the human condition. I apply it to money because money is, is the oil, if you will, or the fuel of a modern economy. It just facilitates trade and relationships and everything. And the people that have problems with that discussion, I go back, if you live on a subsistence farm and you make 90% of what you own, that's noble, that's romantic, it's probably not realistic. And to give you an example, if you don't grow coffee on that farm, you need a cup of coffee and all you've got is chickens for barter, For barter, you take the chicken down to the coffee shop, you arrange for a cup of coffee, they give it to you, you give them the chicken, they look amazed, appalled, and scared to death, and then you ask them for change. I mean, how does that work? The chicken doesn't like it. It's incredibly messy. And how's it fair? So modern society puts things in front of us as humans. biologically, we're not really well suited for. I like to say all the time that our brains have not caught up with our economy, and they may never, because the natural instincts that we default to are the things that kept us alive in the savanna when we were trying to cross an open field to get something to eat and ensure we're not being a meal for somebody, something else in the process. That happens today. It happens at the mall. It happens in the trending stocks and finances. It happens when we buy things. It happens with relationships. So we go back to that stillness place. The stillness was when you're on the edge of the savanna looking over and trying to figure out what you're going to do. You have to be in a still state to make that happen. In a modern society, sometimes we just drive forward.

Very interesting take. Let me run with that for a moment, Ted. Come with me on this little trip. What if what you just mentioned is basically the function of our mind?

Yes.

Fight and flight, freeze and whatever, right?

Yep.

What if There is actually an operating program, like, like an OS, an operating system underneath the mind. And that's the one we've been born with.

Boy, you now are opening up a whole new area of metaphysics and, and, and, and the like.

As a matter of fact, I love these conversations, by the way.

Yeah, yeah. There was an interesting study I read just a couple of weeks ago that, that scientists— a scientist in Switzerland or Germany, a European scientist, basically thinks they've broken the Holy Grail to figure out what consciousness is and what it's about.

Mm-hmm.

And they're talking about quantifying the near-death experience and the death experience. In a whole different realm. Okay. So without getting too off the rails here, I would say the easy answer is yes. I honestly believe that there's a guiding something that is buried in us— consciousness, religion, God. You label it what you choose. We're energy. The energy is moving forward. The energy will, will continue forward. long after we're here in one form or another. So I honestly have to believe that, yes, there is something. I'm not exactly sure what it is. I don't know everybody does. But it's ironic. I think it's fascinating that if you've ever been in a situation where you're in the zone, Mm-hmm. where your mind is just totally engaged between— and I think that's gamma rays and, you know, brain, whatever. But that's an incredible experience. And I've had it happen a few times, particularly working out or some other circumstances. And it's amazing. And I can remember almost every one of them. And if you have that, you've got to believe there's a lot more going on than what you read in a very analytical, linear, you know, binary

Let me

challenge that.

Let me challenge that for a moment. What if it's actually not your mind that comes to the forefront in that moment?

Well, I don't know. I, I don't think you can separate the two. I think it's more fluid. Um, going back to the article I just, just talked about, what they're talking about is a, a conscious Continuum, which is universal in the universe, you know. And now we're getting into some really heavy stuff. But if—

That's why I wanted you on the show, my friend.

Yes. If you're part of that, you're part of that. Now, the question I would ask, if the default is being part of that, that what we're doing now is the exception. How about that?

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So think about when we're born, we come with a full consciousness,

right?

And when does that usually change?

Oh, that's interesting. Um,

when society starts taking hold.

Yeah, from our work, we say there's a lot of learned behavior. Okay, that's experiential. That is, is, is very, uh, Well, it's a survival instinct. Our neural system reacts to certain things. It stores it in our brain in different chunks or different parts. It comes together. It's recalled again, all for survival. So I guess the question you would have, and I would go back to the psychologist Pinkner and a couple of others, and we're going and asking the questions, are we truly a blank slate? Or, or are we You know, which means it could be modified, it could, it could be written on in different ways, it could be erased and changed. Or is some geneticists think that a lot of it is just preprogrammed and it's a matter of opportunity and circumstances before certain things are unleashed? Honestly, I don't know. But I think these are discussions we should have. I don't particularly subscribe to the 100% blank slate, which means we're infinitely plasticity, that we're able to react and change to anything. I think there's some more— there's some blueprinting going on in our DNA which goes as deep as our consciousness. And you talk about epigenetics and things like that, how DNA changes because of behavioral incidents and things like that. There's a lot more going on, a lot more going on.

So basically what I put down there is when you go into stillness, and stillness has nothing to do with meditation like most people believe, or many people believe, right? Because you described it as a zone, Ted, and you said that You basically got into an active state, which you otherwise do not experience, right?

Yeah, pretty much.

So this is an amazing thing. So can you say that there— maybe you can give a quick example of where in life do you meet that place most clearly? Like, how do you access it?

Wow, that's, that's real good. Is that a conscious or unconscious action? I would say most of the times that I was in that state, I would say I was in balance physically, emotionally, spiritually, doing something that brought all that together. And it just kind of worked at a focus. And I, and I reached there. I question if there's a lot of conflict going on that that state is going to be attainable. I think balance is required. And I think balance and the concept of state kind of go hand in hand. I think if you were in just the reactive survival mode, your focus is on one thing, getting across the savanna.

Mm-hmm.

But I wouldn't call that a silent safe space type thing. That's completely different. That's driven by adrenaline and a few things like that. To me, it's much deeper than that. And that's why I think being in that zone, if you will, is more the— without training, okay? Without training, it's the exception. Yeah. And you almost stumble into it. For whatever reason and you had this aha moment, this felt good. How do I do this?

Interesting. So what if we actually are born in that zone and then we are being taught by the world who we have to become?

Oh, I agree with that.

And this becomes our MO.

Yeah.

So what if You know, I'm a little bit technical. What if I can actually turn this upside down and say my job in this world is to remember what the world told me to forget?

Absolutely. And that goes back— if you subscribe to a global infinite consciousness of which we basically came from and we will go back to, That makes absolute sense.

Because it is a continuum. We still are connected.

Yeah, it is. It's a continuum.

We still are connected. Like, if you talk with scientists, they say, goodness me, our brains right now, our neurons fire and receive and send.

Absolutely.

And Markus has no bloody clue what's going on. But the mirror neurons, for example, just when we see each other.

Yes.

There is a field. It doesn't matter where you are. You're in Texas now, right?

I'm in Tennessee.

Oh, in Tennessee, right.

Just south of Nashville.

Yes, yes, yes. No, I just mixed those 2 up. So think about it, you're in Nashville and I'm in Boston right now.

Right.

But there is this connection. And when we actually started to understand that we are connected, we are not islanders, or Icelanders, as people try to put us, isolated, because, you know, that's being on an island. Right. It's isolated. But when we start actually to understand, what if this actually is the status quo we should have? What if this is the state we should actually acquire? Because you see what you mentioned, this trifecta, I translate it very easily with coherence.

Okay, I like that word.

Right? So what I usually do is I say to people, look, when you experience this state, try to memorize it and try to make that your new baseline.

Right?

And every single time, what you want to do is you basically aspire to get into how we felt.

Yes. And I know we're getting a little late here, but I would think that is part of the process, that it happens at such an event. You mark it. Now, you might not know exactly how you got there, but you know how it felt. You know the— you know what was going on. And that's a unique feeling that you'd like to duplicate. So your mind will, will try to put you back in those circumstances. But the most important thing, I think, for me is you're capable of doing that. Which again implies stillness and openness.

Let me challenge you in, in one aspect, and I really love that. This is a sign of trust when I do that, by the way. What if you are actually not that much driven by fight and flight as you think you are?

Yes.

That you are actually living way more on the other side. And that is not so much the mind that controls your day, but it is your teaching, which you've been taught that it is the mind. Because all the conversations I've ever seen you, you're probably the least I would say is standing at the edge of the savanna thinking about when does that saber-toothed tiger hit me next, right? Oh yeah. I think you are someone who is really either at the edge of stillness and absolutely close to make this almost your go-to whenever you want to.

Yeah.

And I believe that's what people have to hear. Society wants us to believe that we are all driven and operated by our minds. But the mind is something else than programmed.

Right.

It's literally programming. So when people say, you see, that happens sometimes when I'm on call with people, they suddenly say, wow, I never looked at it like this. And I just smirk because I haven't said a word.

Yeah.

So it was the inner state, which is original, speaking to them based on something we talked maybe 5 minutes ago. And I believe when people begin to believe that there is a possibility that you can escape that mind, which, sorry, quite often is a rat race, is a hamster wheel. Not fun, right? Yeah. Yeah, I had a conversation with an executive recently, a female, and she said to me, Markus, It's actually much worse than you depicted because most people, managers, they morphed into hamsters in order to fit into that hamster wheel.

Yes.

So they believe they are hamsters. And now I understand where this freaking flight and fight is coming from or freeze because they subscribe to that belief.

Yeah. You know, you bring up a good point. I've been accused quite often of being aloof and not caring because of in the corporate separate, you know, not conforming.

Yeah.

And they're confusing that with, I know where I'm going and what I'm doing.

Yes. Yeah.

I would

say that is exactly that.

Does that make sense?

Yes. Yes. And you see, and this is why I wanted you on that call. And I promised myself I will get you to the point. Where you will have to react, not from your mind, but saying, he's kind of right.

Yeah.

And I believe it hates people like you and me.

Yes.

Because the world is longing for that state.

Oh, yeah. And we are fixated with labels and facades and masks and all that. And I'll just give you a personal example. I retired from the United States Marine Corps as a Lieutenant Colonel. When you say United States Marines, they have all kinds of stereotypes. If I had a dollar for anybody, everybody that's come up to me and said, I can't believe you're a Marine, you know, and my mind, I fulfilled my definition of what that meant. Now, it might not mean theirs. And I'm thinking, well, what do you think it's all about? I mean, to me, it was duty, country, serving the people next to you, being link to the people on the left and the right. It was more stillness in chaos with a very, very interesting bond that can only happen in those circumstances, if that makes sense.

Yeah, absolutely.

It means that I'm very adaptable, but I'm very comfortable with my skin and what I can do. And and I do think, and we're getting into Marcus Aurelius a little bit here and Stoicism and the like. And and if you're if you're a subscriber to a lot of the Stoic principles, which I am, it all comes together. It really does make sense.

It's beautiful. What what I sometimes think about the difference between stillness and Stoicism. Stoicism has something you know Stoics right?

Yep.

It's stoic, so it doesn't move so much. And stillness for me is almost like the opposite of stoicism because stillness is not the absence of action. And when I met you for the first time on that one call, that was absolutely for me like, here's a kindred spirit.

Yeah.

We might call it differently, He might be even, you know, like kind of programmed in a different language. But in the end, that's exactly what it comes down to.

Right. And my definition of Stoicism is more aligned to stillness. It's, it's if you really get into it, particularly in the Latin, if you read it in Latin, It's not the traditional— it's not the British Guard at the Tower of London. You know, that's the stereotype of a Stoic.

That's exactly it.

I would say it's the opposite. I would say it's the opposite.

Yes. Think about those brains.

Yes.

If we'd be able to speak with them, they would say, guys, If we had known about stillness, we would have called it stillness.

Yeah. Oh,

they probably would lose all their hair if they saw what Stoicism has become today.

Right, right, right. Yeah, it's interesting. Well, it's been, what, 2,000 years? But if you really get in to read— and there are others. I mean, a lot of the ancient philosophers who discussed this topic at length in a lot of different areas, and there are a lot of different ways to get to it. But I think it was all the same thing. It was kind of The one with yourself, with your environment, with others. How it's articulated is almost irrelevant. But what I like about it, it's when you find it and you find somebody else as a kindred spirit, you can label anything you want, but I know exactly what you're talking about.

That's exactly what it is. Yeah. Yeah. It takes one to know one.

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

And it doesn't take labels. It just takes one.

Oh, no. They're artificial. And the, the, the beauty of being a human— we have never physically met, but I've known you for centuries. Okay, does that make sense?

That's how it feels. Absolutely.

And, and it's the way our brains take information in, and we look for the subtle differences, and we look for the cues. And our brains right now are pumping out, uh, oxytocin and serotonin and dopamine and all that kind of good stuff, and, and we're being rewired That, wow, that was a pretty good experience. I would prefer more of this, not less of it. But it happens in milliseconds,

and

it gets reinforced, and it gets reinforced again, and reinforced again. Where I dare say that should we meet physically, it would be like we've known each other for years.

Absolutely.

There might be some physical differences, you know, you might be tall, I might be short, that— but that's irrelevant. That's irrelevant.

Yeah, yeah, no, I totally agree. So now you understand why I have literally come up with going for the show, because I only invite people who I vibe with, who I can imagine having a glass of wine in front of my fireplace.

Oh yeah, yeah.

Now

imagine that, or going out on a run.

Or on a run, exactly. Yeah, some people Probably rather run. You're absolutely right.

Yeah. Well, I'm a solo endurance athlete. That's my time. That's my special time. I go out and take it in.

Me too. Absolutely. Like, I used to have running partners, but I gave up on that pretty fast.

Yeah. Yeah. Probably for the same reasons. You're out there for a reason and you might as well use it.

Yeah, I absolutely do.

Don't squander it.

I agree. So I happily go a little bit over because I have one more question before the last one.

I'm ready.

And I believe this is something that will be so important for anyone who listens to our show. So what has challenged your inner quiet the most? That's the one thing. And what I'm really after is, and what helped restore it?

Okay, what has challenged it? Noise, artificial noise, static, chaos. What has restored it is one inward looking at yourself. Know you're going to be challenged, but you have the capability mentally, physically To take whatever's thrown at you. And once you go back to that spot, that very, very spot, you kind of reset and you're good to go. I, I, that has happened in everything I can think of. I can think of in a triathlon when you've got a very bad swim going and you're 2 miles out in the ocean and it's 5-foot waves. There are a lot of different ways you can handle that. That was probably one of the stillest moments, moments of my life. When I said, okay, we need a little inventory. Let's float on my back for a couple of minutes, take, taking a little inventory, and let's do what I know I can do, and it'll be fine. And I had one of the best races of my life.

Amazing. Shifting perspectives, right?

Yeah.

That's what you've done. Interesting. So I'm wondering if you actually say that you answered this question already. So if someone listens and has lost themselves in the noise of life, which you just mentioned,

Uh-huh.

What is one truth you would want them to remember?

You're human. You will always do human things. That is your default, and it's an amazing place to be if you allowed yourself to go back there. Modern society makes it difficult. It's a conscious effort to realize the humanity of yourself, the noise of the experience, and put it in the proper perspective. I think it takes a little training to be consistent at it. I think it takes a little experience to know what's going on. But once you achieve that, it's amazing. Everything almost goes in slow motion. It just kind of— you kind of go, aha, I get it. Okay, there's kind of this universal flow. Why don't I just go with it? It'll be okay. And that's kind of where I'm coming from. Does that make sense?

Absolutely does. Yeah, absolutely does. So you think about it, being human is original state.

Mm-hmm. So

isn't that crazy?

Yeah. And, and, and In, in the absolute construct, that's where we're trying to get back to.

Exactly. Which beautifully closes the circle with, remember who you were before the world told you who you had to be.

Who you are. Yes.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Isn't that amazing?

Yeah. Pretty simple, isn't it?

Absolutely is. So, Ted, thank you so much for this conversation. It's been— I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. Oh, likewise, likewise. So may you carry the stillness you met here into whatever comes next. So this was Remembering the Forgotten, where we return to what the world taught you to forget.