Ep 44 The Quiet Return A Conversation with Colin Parsons

Welcome to Remembering the Forgotten, a space where leaders think out loud without polish or performance. No scripts, no personas, just what becomes audible when the noise drops and the mind is free to speak for itself. These conversations are not about delivering insight, They are about thinking together in real time, testing ideas against stillness, letting 2 open minds stretch each other. The intention is simple: to create a space where clarity can emerge and where listeners don't just consume perspectives but feel permission to engage their own thinking more honestly. Today, I'm joined by Colleen Parsons. Colleen has spent years inside systems that reward momentum, structure, and delivery, and then made a deliberate turn towards something quieter and more precise— perspective. This isn't a conversation about productivity, leadership hacks, or fixing work. It's about what becomes visible when you zoom out, when old definitions of success no longer fit, and when clarity comes not from adding more, but from subtracting what no longer belongs. Colin hosts Vantage Point as a space for real exploration, conversations that sit at the intersection of work, identity, meaning, and change. Not content, not advice, but orientation. What matters here is uncertainty. It's perspective, the kind that allows better questions to emerge, decisions to soften into place, and direction to reveal itself without force. And with that, welcome to the show, Colin.

Well, thank you very much for having me. It gave me chills reading that out. It was, uh, it's quite something. You never really think about yourself that way. So it's, um, like you do, you write these things and you think about them, but you often don't revisit it. So yeah, um, yeah, it's really good. It felt amazing for you to reflect that back. So yeah, thank you.

You're welcome. So before we begin, when I speak of coherence, I'm pointing to a state where nothing inside is in conflict. Body, thoughts, emotions, and action aligned, moving as one. No push, no urgency, no fear driving the moment. And when I speak of stillness, I don't mean silence. I mean the part of you untouched by expectation or performance, the place that knows before the mind tries to manage it. That's the ground I'd like us to meet on today.

Nice. Yes, uh, that's quite something. It's, uh, we don't really think about things that way, right? We, um, we get busy in the world and we, we have all these inputs. But, um, what a beautiful way to, to put it because, yeah, that knowing inside of us, that alignment, I think we all have it. I just think that, um, there's so much noise outside that we don't— we, we kind of, we're too busy looking at the— or reacting to those other things and we overlook it. So, yeah. A really nice place.

And, you know, if you think about that, we didn't need to go into a spa or into an ashram. We can just experience stillness as it is.

Yeah.

Because stillness is not a void of action. Stillness is coherence.

Yeah. Yeah.

And that is the beauty.

I think you have to be intentional about it as well, right? We,

Yeah,

I just, I, I don't know if we avoid it though, do we? Do you think we actively avoid doing those things? Because I don't know, maybe there's some scariness in there for us that—

Yes.

That, that quietness, like, you know, sort of sitting with some thoughts or sitting with something seems to be very, um, uncomfortable for us. I don't know if we're going to be scared of what we find. I'm not quite sure.

You know, if you think about that, if you look at how I personally see stillness, it is basically you meeting with yourself. And when stillness is present, then it basically moves all the noise outside. So now imagine how uncomfortable for most human beings this must be.

Yeah.

Because, you know, all the noise we are complaining about, I'm sorry to say for everyone who listens, it makes you freaking comfortable.

Yeah. Yeah.

Guess if suddenly that noise would be gone, all the voices that try to influence would be gone. All the past history that tries to influence in terms of taking decisions or how you should think or considerate you should be about X, Y, Z of thinking people. It's gone. That's what stillness is.

Yeah. Yeah. I think—

so no wonder people freak out.

Yeah. I, I think we put a lot of excuses in the way to say why we can't do those things and that stillness. I, I heard something, uh, ages ago, um, that they did a study that more people would rather give themselves an electric shock than sit with their own thoughts for 15 minutes. And that's quite something. I was like, okay. So yeah.

Yeah. But let's stay here because there is deeper meaning, which I believe the researchers did not see yet. Why would they rather have an electroshock than sit with their own Thoughts and emotions?

I don't know. I can only maybe put my own perspective on that. I think— oh, I don't know— is there an uncomfortableness sitting with yourself? Maybe you need to deal with something that you're not comfortable with dealing just yet. And, um, the word happiness pops up into my head, that you're not truly happy. Interesting. Um, and that— so I've said this recently, that I think the most successful people I know, and if you were to— if life was to end tomorrow, the most successful people are the ones that, um, accept themselves fully as who they are. Not money, not status. You know, I'm not saying those things aren't important. I'm not sort of belittling any of that. But the ones that feel that they can show up as themselves, and for me that's true success and true happiness. I think just to understand and be yourself. Um, and I, I have this feeling that so many people are not, and they blame outside factors. Um, but I think it comes down to decisions they've either made or not made, and to reverse those are hugely uncomfortable. And to admit that to themselves, to admit that something needs to be done, is very painful. And that 15 minutes might be too, too much in that moment. And I, I genuinely believe that the time will come anyway. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, maybe not for everybody, but you know, it's, it's one of those things that, well, I remember seeing this visual ages ago. There was a, a little seedling in a forest that was by these massive trees and there was this, thin bit of light coming through, and it was this seedling to grow. And I think, I think we all want that thing, you know, that either that version or that thing that's inside, whatever that is, to come. And I think, um, we do desperately want it, but oftentimes it's not easy, um, be that in that you're in a relationship that you don't want to be in, you've got to quit your job that's safe and secure. You, you, you have to admit to something that is not quite right or serving you, or something's changed in your life, or you want something different. And I don't mean material things. You want something— you've built something but it no longer fits and you've got to change everything. Um, I don't know if I'm projecting there a little bit, but, um, yeah, I think—

No, I think they're on to something.

Yeah, yes, it's, it's quite something. I'd like to— I've never asked that question to my friends. I'll be interested to see what they say because they have a different perspective than me. Um, uh, next time I see them, I'm gonna ask them and just, uh, see what they say.

Definitely do that. Yeah, definitely do that. You know, there is, um, A story which I heard from a friend of mine, and I have not corroborated it yet, so I just say that out loud, but he's a legible source. So he told me that Wim Hof, who has become the Pope of Cold, never intended to do what he's doing today, by the way.

Yeah.

I think he lost his family and he was so frozen inside That he decided a way to shock his system is going into a cold river or a cold stream, whatever you want to call it. That's how he started. Think about it.

Okay.

So speaking of shock, electroshock, what is an electroshock? Like, I can tell you from first experience, my dad needs electroshocks to get close to his emotions. Because his emotions literally froze.

Wow.

They are shut in unless they shock it. And today it's fortunately a different system than it was like 10 years ago. Like 10 years ago was brutal. So today it's very advanced. But nevertheless, he was so paralyzed inside that he needed that shock situation of that cold river, the cold water, And that brought him back into life. Think about it.

Yeah.

And then he just took it from like his perspective a little bit too far, to be honest, because he made it a cult to go into snow, go into the mountains and whatever. But I believe what he started out was enormous discovery.

Yeah, yeah. I think that shocking yourself back into sight, It's, it's really strange when you were saying that. It felt a bit like we're walking around like ghosts and we need to, you know, bring ourselves back down to some sort of reality or, or reset our bodies. And I think our bodies are very, very sophisticated. I, I've— Mm-hmm. I, I used to think that everything was driven by our mind. You know, people say, oh, I love you, and they think, you know, that's from the heart, but I think more recently it's been about my body intuition. There's a lot of messages in your body rather than your, your brain. And I think, I, I don't know if we're— I, that there's a lot of burnout in the world, and I think a lot of that comes from people trying to drive everything through their brain, trying to go, yep, I'm going to do this, even when their body is saying— Uh, no. And the burnout— and I've spoken to a few people about it— the burnout is literally the body's last defense to say no. And it says, right, everything else is going to stop, I'm going to shut it down, because without my body, without the body, you cannot move. And, um, you know, and I've seen people try— excuse me— trying to get out of burnout, and they've tried to think their way out of burnout. Mm-hmm. but the body's saying enough. And, um, it's almost like they're having an argument, and that takes a long time. Someone said something like 3 years to properly recover from something like burnout. But I think you almost need that reset, you know, press that button to, to do it. And, um, yeah, and I think shocking your body— and again, I think we've only touched on what we're able to do with our minds, with our bodies, et cetera. I think there's so much more to discover. But I think that's shocking ourselves back to almost like a reset is, it's very powerful. Yeah, I, I do think we shouldn't have to wait to get there to—

Exactly.

To do it.

And you mentioned something interesting, us basically using our body To get back into, right? So it's basically us who are conducting our bodies. So let me put something challenging out here for most. What if we should actually get the heck out of the body's and our system's way and simply let it do what it's meant to do?

Yeah, I think the word meditation comes up when you say that because I And then, you know, there's different schools of thought around meditation, what it is. I, I, uh, I think, yeah, meditation is almost trying to disconnect all of those things and try and find a space where your body says, okay, this is actually what's going on. And you're, you're trying to get out of your own way and,

um,

exactly. Yeah, I feel that's And that's— and that again, I think we can, we can get meditation wrong. I think there's obviously different ways of doing something, but—

You're a meditator as well, right?

Yeah, and I do, um, I do breathwork, um, which I found very useful for myself because it resets like the nervous system, which seems weird because it's like there's— you think, oh, something amazing is going to happen, but it doesn't always. It feels great, but actually it has much more impact than you naturally realize. And if I don't do it for a little while, then I notice the difference. I just, I seem to be calmer. So especially I found that I like coffee, and I know this. So if I drink too much coffee, um, I get kind of anxious. Mm-hmm. And I found if I'm overwhelmed with stuff, if I go and do breathwork, it's, it's an exercise that takes, um, 20 minutes, but at the end of that breathwork, there's kind of like this meditation moment. Um, I come out of that and I'm like, oh, like, yeah, I feel fresh again. It's not like I, you know, I feel like a superhero, but I'm like, ah, okay, I went into that feeling a certain way. And then you come out and you're, you're much more regulated. Um, and it's very powerful because you have to hold your breath for it. The first— I only do 3 cycles. There's a Um, uh, you do it for 1 minute, uh, you have to do deep breaths first, and you hold your breath for 1 minute. Then you do it again, 30 breaths, and then you hold your breath for a minute and a half. Then the last one's 2 minutes, but you can keep on doing it if you want to. Um, but it's that realization that your body can do so much more. So that, you know, it's not always easy for me. What I've noticed in myself, when my brain kicks in, I cannot hold my breath, uh, for that 2 minutes. I, I start to, I start to imagine sort of drowning or something like that.

Makes sense. Yeah.

When I no longer think that way, in those terms, I can hold my breath for longer, easy more than 2 minutes. But oftentimes my mind is creeping in and then my body's trying to do something. And it's this— afterwards there's this meditation moment But just that sort of reset and just try to connect. And it— I think where we often fail when we get into that is that we think, oh, what, what's our to-do list? What we got to do? And just because that happened once or it's happened 20 times doesn't mean you shouldn't keep trying, because there'll be a moment where you go, oh, okay, I got some, some great message, some great feeling or something. So it is For me at least, it's definitely worth doing and pursuing, you know, and with no expectations, no agenda. And I found that in other areas of my life, if you go into meditation, breathwork, or anything expecting a result, it will not work. Just do the work, forget about the result, and actually results come when you don't think about it.

So you use the word that I hear quite often, try. You're basically trying to get your body into that homeostasis which you like to go into, right?

Yeah.

Do you believe it will be possible to actually get to the point, Colin, where our body does that on a constant basis, gets interrupted by us, but then immediately goes back into it again. That we are actually living in an upside-down world where noise is almost like admired. More noisy, the more stressed you are, the more successful you probably are.

Yeah.

And what if this is absolutely counter-systematic? Or how systemic? What if this is absolutely counter how we live?

Yes. I, that's quite an interesting and deep thing to think about it because my mind goes off in several directions. And again, I, I don't know why we don't do it. I don't, because the reality is that would be much better for us. Our thinking would change. Mhmm. Like the way that we approach things. But again, almost like you said, we welcome the noise, right? We welcome all of that in. Um, and I'm just wondering why we don't do it. Is it—

Pretty much at the beginning of the conversation, right? When you mentioned little seedling that is being nurtured by that stream of light in the forest.

Yeah.

Because that's where you asked.

Yeah. Yeah. Ooh, I don't know. My brain's going in many different directions now. I, uh, maybe it's too, just too scary.

Why?

Because it's the unknown. We like familiar. We like, uh, I think even, even when we know something's not right, um, there's a familiar and that's known. And I think that quietness and that stillness is unknown, and that's unfamiliar, and that is uncomfortable and scary. And that—

It feels unsafe, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I know. So I've done a lot of work about identity. And, um, we tie ourselves to an identity, and oftentimes we want to— we think that we want to become someone else, but we have to let go of that other identity, whatever it is, title, it doesn't, doesn't matter. But it's not that you go from one to the other, you, you go through this transition period.

Mm-hmm.

And that is almost Um, you, you have no— you're no longer in the old, but you're no longer— you're not yet in the new. And this is almost like you're in this space, nothing makes sense, you can't grab onto anything, and it's, um, uh, you don't know how long it's going to last. And, um, that's hugely scary. And I think if you're, you know, you will quickly try to go back to your old identity. to feel something familiar, but you have to sit with that uncomfortableness and, uh, until something reveals. And there's no calendar, there's no clock on the wall that says, yeah, you got 3 minutes left. It's you sit there and you sit there and then you sit there.

Weeks and months and months. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

I, I, I feel that there are people out there, and I think they've tried to share that message, and they've sort of said that's not an easy part, but they've, they've moved into a different identity, and that is a real connection almost with themselves. That's kind of their true identity, not something that's been shaped by a culture or society or anything like that. Um, and so they've had to let go of those things and they'll say, yes, it's painful, but you can feel that when they're in alignment with themselves, then things take off. And I'm not just saying, you know, money-wise, you know, that's how we, we think, see things often. Um,

it's just, I can tell you, Colin, money comes last.

Yeah. Yeah.

Because in society, money comes first. So we do anything that money comes, because if we don't have money, if we don't make money, we're not successful. What you just mentioned totally reverses the roller. I can attest to that. So everything follows first, and then as a result, money comes. And I can tell you why money comes last. Most people do not really see that. Because when money comes first, What happens if people have money or if people want money? Corruption.

Yeah.

The possibility of being bribed, the possibility of being bought or coerced. And this is an interesting aspect for both of our situation without going too much into detail to think Everything else had to fall away first before the money was able to arrive.

Yeah. Yes.

That is a deep, deep thought because, you know, coaches and you remember, like, I'm an executive coach and a business consultant from a background, but I realized there it is all about adding stuff.

Yeah.

But stillness and coherence is the opposite, removing.

Yeah.

So when you say the identity, our real identity, when we speak of identity, is basically what I call the original design.

Yes. Yeah.

So we're born with it, have these seedlings, as you mentioned, we have them in us. They're not just in the forest where you see them, either you're on mushrooms or not, right? We have them in us. And if we're fortunate enough to get them nurtured, they will grow. Yeah. But then society becomes quite demanding and quite loud. In the early times, I remember, Colin, I thought that it's almost like a scheme. of a bad mind or bad power, mean power that tries to enslave us. And then I realized, no, no, no, it's actually much more mundane. We just begin to adapt to what other people tell us works and has to be.

Mm-hmm.

As children, think about that. Some at the tender age of 4, 5, 6, They don't trust anymore what they believe because, yeah, they might have fallen off the bike a couple of times in life. And then grownups told them, you know, this doesn't work. You're now old enough to learn what really matters in life. And you know how, what do you call, impregnable, I believe what it is, our minds are at that tender age. Yeah. Yeah. So when somebody meets that moment where the question comes, is this it or is there more to my life? That's who that is. That's the original design knocking at your door.

Yeah.

Some people face a cancer diagnosis first. You see where I'm going, right?

Yeah, I think life throws it in the way, almost like you said about Wim Hof, to reset, to try to get you back to that original place, that design. And, um, I think, yeah, I think sometimes there's this quiet whisper, you know, there's something, but you can't, and you're trying to exist or trying to put that into place in a world that doesn't necessarily want you to be that way, or you've been conditioned to do that. So it feels very foreign.

Now you get to the reasons. Now you get to the reasons.

Yeah.

If you break it down, if we make it very fast, you are afraid of losing belonging. Yes. That's what it comes down to. Literally, the adaption Literally makes us a wonderful member of a club where everyone is at least as miserable as I am, right?

Yeah.

And when you suddenly start questioning stuff, that's why I'm saying when people come to me and say, Markus, I have this really strong inclination of almost daily asking, you know, Markus, Is this as good as it gets or isn't there more? They feel something is wrong. It's like, no, no, that's an absolute compliment that your inner system says enough, enough.

Yeah.

And I believe that's what the people have to hear because that voice, as you know with yourself, Colin, that voice is quite quiet and tender.

Yeah. Well,

yeah, it's quite inattentive before it paralyzes you.

Yeah.

Because it gets louder and louder.

So when people come to you and ask that, what's your, what's the next stage though? That's, you know, it's, it's good they've got that awakening and awareness. What's the next step though? That's quite a,

And it's a very poignant question to ask.

Yeah. And it's different for everyone.

Not so much.

No?

This is literally— no, this is universal.

Okay.

I'll lead you through it if you're interested.

Yeah, go for it.

Life knocks and says, Colin, is this as good as it gets? Isn't there more to life? And the only thing you have to do in that moment is to say, What if there is? And then almost like a whisper, please show me. That's it.

Nice. I, uh, I then imagine— this is where my brain's going, so correct me— the, the world starts to open up. Synchronicities, call it what you will, start to show up. And, uh, yeah. But in order to be there, you have to be intentional, right? You have to go, okay, be, be open to— I want to say anything and everything. Does that— that seems very—

Yeah.

A loose statement, but you go, okay, don't— you know, because your mind carries with it what it sees, like, you know, what it's been conditioned to see. You need to open up your eyes to not to define what's coming, but just to open your eyes and see, okay, oh, what's, what's unusual in your day? What's unusual? What's showing up? Where's this? And be curious about that, because I think those signs will be everywhere. There's not always, always an obvious answer. It's not someone

Mm-hmm.

giving you everything, but there are signs along the way. And I think if you, if you, if you can be as open and receptive as possible and curious, then I think you are able to see them. That's my interpretation at least.

Imagine, imagine it as following. There's your body and there is your original design, which some people call soul. Let's call it soul for a word. For a moment. So basically, the soul gets pushed out of its rightful seat, maybe at the age between 3 and 6, somewhere like that, right? It's the soul asking you this question, is this it, or isn't there more to life? So when you say, what if there is more? Please show me. You're talking with your soul. So the soul begins a dialogue with you because you invited it, maybe for the first time in your life. And then it begins to show you the distortion that hinders you so far to actually hear it and be able to listen to it for longer. And that's where the subtraction takes place instead of addition.

Hmm.

So it's not so much that you have to wait for outside signs. That's nice. But the real kicker is that everything takes place in you.

Yeah, it's, um, I, I, I think maybe as we see as intuition, I would say it's maybe along those same lines. I've, uh, I've experienced—

Some call it intuition, some call it source, some call it whatever. You want it?

Yeah, I know. I, it's, um, it's strange how that shows up. Like you said, there's a, there's a dialogue and it's like, oh, okay. And it's, um, yeah, I've had that myself. That's why I jumped into doing the, the lives. It was out of a frustration, but I connected with part of myself that was, it was like this, it, it's like this voice and you don't know where it's coming from. You don't, it doesn't. I don't know if it sounds like you. There's no real tone to it, but it's like, okay, go this way. And it's like, oh, okay. And, um, yeah, and it's that internal thing. And it's really strange when you, when you do that, you go, okay. And it's this inner— not confidence, it's just this, I'm gonna do this. And the outside world will try and stop you or bring their own perspectives on things. Um, and it doesn't have to be combative. It can be, um, you can just say, oh, thanks, but I'm gonna do this. But following that without knowing exactly where it's going to lead you is both very thrilling, uh, and a little bit scary at the same time. Um, because the things that—

Everything is double-edged.

Yeah. And that— and the things that seem to have defined you, or, um, that you would have as a measurement in the world, no longer matter. That's— you, you find that it's, um, almost silly that you used to listen to those things. And you just go, yeah, okay. And, um, I've, I found it for myself that I'm, I'm wanting to hear it more. It's like, oh, okay. It's the thing that leads you and you, you go, oh, okay. And it's, it's like this quiet, warm friend that goes, okay, we'll just go this way. Yeah. And, uh, oftentimes it will lead you in the opposite direction of what everyone else is doing. And I think maybe that's the sign that you're doing something right.

Yes. My dad taught me a few things, not too many, but a few things. And one of them was, if everyone tells you it's right and you know it's wrong, trust in your own voice. And if everyone says it's wrong and you know it's right, trust in your own voice. As you can imagine, he was a good messenger, but a very bad disciple of his own advice.

Yeah.

So he paid dearly. He paid dearly. But I believe this is really what it's coming down to is that, you know, I was at the moment, and I think I was about 20, 24, something like that, where I suddenly realized What the world sells me as known and as secure feels extremely unknown to me inside and extremely unsecure. And I realized what feels like unknown, I suddenly felt like the U and the N were eradicated. Hmm. And it became more known and the insecure, unsecured UN eradicated and it became secure. And I suddenly felt, wow, what the world tried to sell me as the plan and how it has to go actually felt at unease for a reason, for a good reason, because it's not me. And I always say, goodness me, why do you think we have 8.3 billion people in the world? To be all the same? To all follow the same path? I don't think so.

Yeah.

And, you know, I literally only work with people who have gotten to that point where they say, you know what, Markus, The entire Maslow's pyramid of needs has come to an end. And then people say, okay, do you have like level 6, 7, 8? It's like, no, no. I want to show you that the entire Maslow's pyramid is nice, but it's not what life is all about. We are not here to fulfill our needs. We are here to get connected again with that original design. And when that foundation is built, then you can use a Maslow's pyramid. Because then suddenly level 3, 4, 5, you know, self-actualization and awareness and everything suddenly becomes into order. But if you have not done that first step I mentioned first, you actually start to pervert those layers. That's where people suddenly become power hungry.

Yeah.

Instead of starting to think for the greater good, where self-actualization becomes an ego trip, where you suddenly start abusing everyone around you Pretending that you are meaning so well for them, very much knowing you are like a Moloch who's just eating, you know the story, right? The babies.

Yeah.

And you're eating them not for their good, not for their family's good, you're eating them because you need that energy to thrive.

Yeah.

Which is crazy if you think about it.

I've never heard it described that way, but it's, um, we talk about foundations and the way that you've described that is, um, it's very interesting because, you know, we think about that, that pyramid and, um, we think, okay, we start and then we go, but it's the foundation of what that pyramid is built on that is essential. I was thinking while you were saying that, you know, we, we We never teach kids that, you know, we only find that out, you know, during later on in life, you know, we're studying or something like that. I wondered how that would be if we actually taught that to kids and they had some concept of what that meant and how that— what that meant for them and their lives without our steering them and, you know, sort of influencing them. Basically in a way that suits us rather than suits them.

You know, that's basically what Rudolf Steiner, I believe, tried to do when he created his Rudolf Steiner schools. But the one difference was, and I know those kids myself, when they went through all the grades that Rudolf Steiner offers and then wanted to, you know, transfer into the public school system, They had issues. So Rudolf Steiner deliberately did not prepare them for what had to be prepared to become a good soldier and a good member of the economy. Did not. Literally did not. So think about if parents are listening who have little children, if you actually help them to develop a natural relationship To that inner voice that you teach that little baby or little kid, if you feel something is right and somebody else tells you it's wrong, believe it. And the opposite. Because I really believe, Colin, that, you know, I don't remember how old you are, but I'm 53. So I'm maybe like half of my life. But I believe the last couple of years were here to remember what I forgot because people told me how I had to think and feel. Yeah. And I believe this is the reason why we're alive somehow, to literally remember what the world taught you who forget. And that makes it quite different and difficult for the system because the system doesn't like that.

No. Yeah.

Imagine if you just start to think, you know, some people tell me, but Markus, like, how does it work with my family, with my marriage, with my children, with my job? I said, there's no impact at all in the beginning. It's you allowing that question Speaking it out loud, what if there is more? And then to whisper, please show me more.

Yeah.

Because the more is coming. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Will Smith's new documentary. So he has a 7-part documentary, Pole to Pole, I think it's called. And at one point he stood there and he said, guys, I am one of the most successful actors there is in our lifetime at the moment. Most paid, highest paid, right? Influential. He's a thrill seeker. Like literally at it, at it, at it, at it. Where you saw, yeah, yeah, stop bragging, stop bragging. It's enough, enough. Right? But then he said, and you know what? I have not found happiness in none of these things.

Wow.

In none of these things. That's why he took his money. That's why he took his time. That's why he risked his life to do this pole-to-pole documentary from the North Pole to the South Pole to find— probably remember he had this movie with his son, The Pursuit of Happiness.

Yeah, yeah.

There's no coincidence that he did that. It's co-incidental, literally. And now that led him back to this documentary in the hope to really find the source for happiness. That's why he's done it. Think about it.

Nice. Did he, uh, yeah, to give no spoilers, did he get there? Did he understand anything?

I don't think he's there yet to reveal it because I think he's pretty much overwhelmed while he records it.

Okay.

Yeah, like for example, there was one episode— I really highly recommend you, you watch all of them— he was with a guy who found happiness in nature. He was paralyzed, and then through meditation and everything, he, you know, regained functionality again, can walk. So he laid himself back into the grass, and Will almost went insane of nothing taking place. He said, my thoughts are racing like crazy. So he wasn't able to just lay down, close his eyes, and just be. And that's when I realized, gosh, this epidemic is so much worse than I expected. Hmm. So much worse that when people say I cannot meditate, they're right. They have no chance to stop their thoughts, maybe just a millisecond. Because as you said in the beginning, it's so mind-driven, everything.

Yeah, I think, um, I think also technology is, um, we treat our brains like technology and we, we see it almost like they're supposed to be the same things, like they're— like our brains are computers and we process things, etc. And I think that's a very— I understand that's got, got us to a certain point, but we— I don't think we— you know, there are people do understand certain aspects of it, but our brains are not computers. They're designed for probably much more than we even know now.

Mm-hmm.

Yet we are trying to treat them as like input, output, process, et cetera. And it's not that. And so, um, we've thrown technology in front of our brains, you know, social media, uh, input, input, input, like constantly bombarded. And, um, and it was never designed to be that way, or it's not evolved, or it shouldn't evolve. I, I don't, I don't know.

Mm-hmm. That's where the overwhelm comes from.

Yeah.

Do you know anyone who is not overwhelmed today? I don't know many.

No. But when I do, when I meet them, I, I come across them occasionally. They're so happy, but they're very intentional about what they let into their environment.

Mhmm.

They're very self-aware people. They're very, I wouldn't say spiritual. It doesn't even have to be spiritual, but they've— they're aware of what the effects on them are, and they're in touch. And, and then they, they can sort of cleanse themselves. They almost see it like, um, they've made themselves muddy or dirty or something like that, and they're like, oh, okay. And they have enough distance and enough clarity to say, ah, that doesn't serve me. And they're— Mm-hmm. Quite relaxed, and they're like, yeah, and they don't judge themselves. They're just like, okay, no. And again, I think it comes down to knowing themselves, being aligned with themselves, and be able to resist those temptations, or however you want to call it, inputs. And you know, and I think we have to we have to fight very hard because. You know, because those things, they're designed, you know, social media is designed for a way to, you know, give us that dopamine hit that make us feel that we're special, but it's not actually delivering it. And, you know, there's been talks and I know there was a documentary about it, like how it's supposed to trigger your brain, et cetera. But those, those ones that go, oh no, I don't, I don't like that. They have this awareness and they're able to go, go, no, okay, I'm gonna put that aside. Um, but they also don't fill up their cup with a lot of to-dos. They'd go,

yeah, yeah. That's exactly it. Yeah. Because, you know, let's look at analogy of a car driver. Most people have the mind as the driver. Never intended to be the driver. Never wanted to be the driver. Definitely not. Then people say, okay, so we'd say it's like a passenger in a passenger seat. No, not even that. The mind wants to be on the backseat and it wants to be a support function for the actual system to work. Most people say, goodness me, what is this guy talking about now? the system to work. And that's exactly the thing that talks to us saying, Markus, this can't be it.

Yeah.

This is not good. Something is absolutely out of whack, totally, totally out of order. And I think that's what we have to understand, that we are literally, you know, not Hail Mary, but Hail Mind. And the mind has to be moved to the seat where it wants to be, on the back seat. Because the mind is an amazing— you want to call it machine or whatever, or an entity or being. Because the thing the mind observes, the mind wants to give feedback. And you see, that's where my coherence aspect comes into, because that's when the mind and the heart goes into coherence, when neither nor is the driver, because that then opens the gate to the actual driver, which some people call soul, some people call source. I'm not sure whether I shared that with you, but I grew up as an evangelical Christian. So God was taught to me as the system. And I realized, goodness me, in the end, it was all me all the time. Whether I delegated it to a source that is mightier and more powerful than me, that was basically outsourcing. Agency. But now at the age of 53, and actually I can tell you partially aided by doing these shows because I have the privilege of speaking with people like you, not interviewing, but speaking where we can delve into depth which other people couldn't even dream of. That's why I'm saying it's all about The quest around stillness, because I believe that the real driver has been pushed out of its rightful seat. And our life's mission is to return to the driver and then actually show that we really mean what we say. Because the driver says, goodness me, Markus, Why exactly should I believe you that the mind is actually willing to move its seat? Because it's become really comfortable up there, not knowing what he's doing, but he loves to be in a position where he's adored. Mm-hmm. And that's when I realized, okay, now the conversation with the driver is actually what's next. And to really show through actions and not through words that I mean what I mean. And that's when I realized the journey is taking away stuff, subtraction instead of addition.

Yeah.

And then louder and louder and louder, I heard the voice until I realized, gosh, It was my distortion that hindered coherence to speak to me constantly, constantly. Because, you know, probably no coherence shows up spotting, right? Suddenly out of the blue, you have a thought, you have a hint, a hunch. No, life is supposed to be led. By that force. And the mind should be a support function. And now you understand why people are afraid to even slightly entertain that there is more.

Yeah.

Because they have come so accustomed to that system.

Yeah. But I think, I think in that way that They're, they're scared because they, they think, you know, they've got to face that reality, and that's quite scary. And they've gone far down the road driven by the brain, and especially

in our society.

Yeah. And, and again, it comes back to, oh, okay, I've got to unwind everything. And, and I don't think it's— I don't think it's always as drastic as that. I think it's just about, like you say, subtracting doesn't have to be always painful, but just—

Mm-hmm.

And we always think it's gotta be overnight, something's gotta be this, but no, just work towards it. Just, okay, put it in reverse. Just see, okay, go. And, you know, and it doesn't have to be that scary. Go, okay. Where can I get back to? Where's the point where I actually change who the driver is and where can I get back to? And I think your point in terms of taking away is, it sort of stands out so much because we, you know, it's easy to point out, you know, we're very consumer-driven, you know, but it's not just It's not just things, it's input and knowledge and stuff like this.

And thoughts and feelings, emotions.

Yeah.

Beliefs. Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yep. Yep.

Yeah. And, um, yeah, I think the, the only thing I would say is that now that we are connected more than ever, I think the nice thing about that is that We can spread that message and we can help other people understand that easier. You know, so there there are ways you can use technology for good. You can use it to share and not convince, but just show. I don't I don't think we have to force anyone into anything because when the right time is the right time for them, I I generally Absolutely agree with you,

Colin. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, the other thing is— just go ahead.

No, and I just, um, I, I think, I think people are, are starting to wake up because, you know, just as you said about Will Smith, he's a prime example. You know, on the outside ticks all the boxes, right? Um, you know, and he's saying no. And most people are chasing fame or chasing money, etc. And he's almost saying, I kind of got here, I'm on top of this mountain. This is not the mountain I want to be on. I want to be on a different one over there. And, um, I, I think hearing that from people that are a little bit in front, a bit further in front, or however it is, I think can start to open up people's minds. And so I think I say minds, just we're talking about brains and stuff, but just to go, just to start to—

The language itself is crazy, isn't it?

Yeah, exactly. You start to go, oh, okay, something has felt off. And oftentimes when we go against what everyone else is going against, we're, we're deemed by society as crazy or strange or an outlier.

I agree.

Um, and but it also allows— it gives other people permission. So, um, when you look left and you see someone there and you go, oh yeah, I don't know if I'm brave enough, but you see someone walking with them, you go, oh, that's okay. And so I think over time People will get there, but it needs to be their time. It needs to be done well and thought through in a way that's that's right because if it's not done correctly, people will just ignore it and just keep on because ignorance is a lot better sometimes than facing the idea of change.

Absolutely. You know, that's where that thought came into a while ago, where I realized my job is to send out the signal and it will be received by the people who are willing and ready to receive it. So if I would go out there and try to convince people or convert people, that would be a disaster.

Yeah.

Because people we're talking about and I'm approaching are way too intelligent for that. They don't want more of the bullshit. They don't want more of, you know, distorting methodologies and coaching and whatever. No, they want to hear, you know what, there is the more. It is available. And all I'm doing is saying, look, I welcome you on that journey. That's all I'm doing. Because I can literally say, if I look at the guides that Will Smith had on his tour, I'm one of those. But at the same time, I'm still finding out so much more. in terms of what else can be shed, what else can be left behind. And now literally the time has come where I say the biggest challenge, I believe, for today's humanity is to get out of the way of our inner system and let it do its work it's assigned to. Because if we believe that our brain is mighty and powerful beyond imagination. Think about what keeps everything working, everything working. And that's the system.

Yeah. I'm just wondering if, um, you know, in the same way as, uh, we talked about Wim Hof, you know, do we need to shock the system back into a reset? And, uh, it would be sad that we have to get to that point to accept But

I personally don't think it's necessary.

Yeah.

But quite often the system shocks itself into it first.

Yeah.

Suddenly you have a diagnosis or you walk into a burnout.

Yeah.

And you're absolutely right. It takes a while to recover from a burnout. Because those people say, look, I have a burnout. I say, for how long? Oh, a couple of weeks. Ah, okay. So when did you get back to work again? Oh, it's just a couple of days ago. Ah, okay. Nice. Keep going.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think burnout on that topic is very, is really interesting. I think Again, it's, it's such a, a, a calling to really reassess your life. Yeah. Um, and I, I think the sad thing is that you, my understanding of it is your body's shut down. You don't have time to think about anything so that I, and I think there's external pressures, you know, you're going to work, you know, if you've got a, a good job and there are, you know, good bosses that understand and support you, but some like are basically either forced that or the alternative is to go on unemployment or something. Mm-hmm. Um, and that can be a very scary place to be. You've got— you've built roles and responsibilities in your life. And I think, um, but I, I think I, I've always said it. I know it sounds really horrible. Uh, when someone's hit burnout, I think that's a great thing to have happened. And

it is.

I, I agree. And people look at me a bit funny, but I go, right, you've, if I say you've hit rock bottom, that sounds horrible, but maybe it is. I, I've even experienced it where I was talking to someone and I was kind of, I could see something wasn't quite right. I couldn't necessarily predict burnout, but you could see whatever you were saying, it was like you were on mute. It wasn't going in. It would like, they looked like they were hearing you, but they weren't. And I was like, oh, okay. And this person had to go through it and they had to do that inner work, that understanding. And, um, and they tried to get back to where they were and tried to fill in and add all those bits back. You know, I've got this, I'm doing this, I'm doing this, I'm doing this, I'm doing this. Mm-hmm. And, uh, Took them a long while, and I I think they're still forced towards the end, but they have a much deeper appreciation for who they are, what messages are coming through, what's there. And I think without that burnout, they wouldn't have got there. And I think it will lead them on to a better path. And it's again sad that they have to get there, but I also feel that that's a signal that enough, that that's your time to. Yeah, to reassess.

Because, you know, if you think about that, why would we say that somebody who goes through a burnout is actually privileged? And having experienced it myself, I can definitely speak of it without being condescending about anyone who goes through a burnout right now. It takes your system to get to that point where it says, there is too much to be protected. And if we go on like this, damage will be done to what has to be protected.

Yeah.

And I think that's an interesting aspect.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Self-preservation in many ways.

Yes. Yes.

Yeah.

Because let's be honest, most people walk through life like zombies.

Yes.

Right. They're furthest away from burnout. Just, just whatever states they're in.

Yeah.

So which brings me to my final question, Colin. This is a deep one. If someone feels overwhelmed right now with life and everything, what would you want them to return to?

Themselves as a child. I've had this conversation a few times recently, and As a child, you don't worry about things as much. You just play. I think there is so much joy in life when you play. And we don't— as adults, we're almost looked upon strangely if we play. But I think play brings out something very instinctive in us. It shows us who we are without the filters, without the pretense, without, you know, without those things. You know, youngsters don't feel ashamed necessarily. They, they feel something. They don't feel embarrassed. They don't— you know, they're just playing. You know, they're pretending to play, you know, soldiers or princesses or whatever. Their imagination is free. Mm-hmm. They don't need things, you know. I know you can look at children, mine included, you know, they have more than— much more than they ever need. But get back to that place. That place will help you reconnect with who you are. And You know, that might not be the answer for everybody, but I think it's a good place to start because you don't come out with anything. You, you just— you're open to the world. You, you don't have— you haven't gone through all those systems and those things and those influences, um, and you just go back to that and just feel that it's a magical place to be. Magical. There's no limits to the world. Then start being curious from there, and then just see. Don't set an agenda, just do it. And I would say the best place to start.

What a beautiful way to end our show, Colin. Thank you so much for this conversation.

Oh, thank you so much. It was a real pleasure. It was very deep, very thoughtful, and I, I like the fact that the way that you think about these things, and it's not often I get to have these deep conversations in this way. So thank you very much, Markus.

Appreciate it. You're welcome. This was Remembering the Forgotten, a conversation held in clarity, not performance. If something in this exchange shifted how you see, let it stay with you. A few quiet pointers are waiting below.