AI Told Me My Hiring Process is "Too Deep"

Hey guys, the, uh, second prompt that I have up on my Delphi home screen is the 3 unique things that define my growth model. But me and Audrey were just playing with it, and every single time you ask it, uh, or click that button, it can be a slightly different variation and order. So we are going to go in a very specific order that we had planned for, which is just in my unique way on talent acquisition, um, today. And we'll talk about growth models some other time. So thank you, Audrey, for being here, because sometimes I don't always even know what I'm doing with talent. I'm just guessing. And trying to be uniquely different. But when we talk about talent acquisition, really you're talking about marketing acquisition too. So there's two forces at play, one of which I don't see, which is attraction normally, because it's not like we are ever running ads for media buyers and copywriters yet. Here's Audrey, who came into Agexa in 2020 or 2021. Yeah, one of the two. And quickly, I quickly within a few weeks made her take a red-eye flight to a client. Shout out to Zendrop and Jared Goetz.

And they still haven't used my email sequence and I'm mad about it.

Hey, use their— come on guys, come on Brad, put that email sequence in. It was 120. Um, just kidding. Um, anyway, that's how it goes sometimes with marketing agencies. So she came in during the marketing agency era of Agaxa, then we ended up selling the agency to Structured Social, then transitioned to our New Reach Equity brands and is off doing her own thing now. So Audrey, thank you.

Yeah, back at it.

Technically, that was good.

That was solid.

Uh-huh. All right, so I will ask you a first question, then feel free to ask me questions from there. What even attracted you about applying to Digaxo? Because I don't know that story of just like how you even got here.

Yeah, um, I had been trying to do marketing for a while after graduating, um, because I went to school for English, but I did like technical writing, editing, and toward the end of my degree I was like, this sucks, I hate it. Accidentally stumbled into a digital marketing internship and really liked that, and so I was trying to in, but I couldn't sell myself as an English major, oddly enough. Like, none of the marketing agencies in Utah liked my application process. Uh, so I did ghostwriting for a while, and then 2020 hit, and like everyone else, I lost all my clients and was struggling. So I was thumbing through Indeed, uh, I was in listings.

Yeah.

And I found a copywriter position, and I was like, I bet I could do that. It's loosely marketing. It's like more writing than I was intending to do in digital marketing.

Was it Camille that found you during that era?

I think it was Dakota.

Dakota.

But it was both of them. Like, it was—

I just did the final Dakota and Camille.

And I, when I went to the website, I saw the stuff about Myers-Briggs and I was like, I gotta work for these people because I thought that was weird in a good way. Um, and then yeah, when I started talking to the team, like, I didn't know that it was a media buying position until— I think I didn't know until I took the assessment. Yeah, the media buyer assessment. It's because we A/B test different job titles, which is how you found David, I think. Yes, journalism.

People end up being a media buyer.

Yeah, you finally, uh, find a copywriter who does media buying.

Uh-huh.

That's my advice for the day.

Yeah, yeah, I don't— my strategy is not like post it as— it's not hierarchical, like post CMO, make them a junior media buyer. Um, it's not that manipulative. It's more so just, hey, how can we rephrase this in a cool way? Yeah, so junior CMO, um, is, is what Audrey applied for. Now wait, I'll have to look. I'll pull the, pull the JD. But thank you.

Just said copywriter.

But Myers-Briggs was the thing that stood out, which is why Crystal knows is part of my unique method. So why Myers-Briggs profiles are on our website? I want to say because like probably Dakota or someone, or Ellie, or whoever was there at the time— did Ellie predate you?

She did, yeah.

They might have put it on there, and I was like, I don't know if that's going to help, guys. That's probably going to weird people out. They— it's just like 4 letters that they don't understand, but it attracts. And it taught me, um, that just like anything else I do on a marketing funnel, attraction changes with identity labels and symbols that you put on the website. So once you get in though, it's super heavy personality. We just don't have Myers-Briggs on our website. We go like 10 layers deep, I would say.

Yeah, like my one-on-ones with you are based on our Myers-Briggs overlap.

Yeah. So I'll share that later where we can do a Loom overview of that. But there's these playbooks that Crystal knows that allows us to do. But backing up to the overall concept of why though I do it is the right information at the right time for each unique individual person, that third one, for each unique individual person, has— that changes depending on the relationship context, right? So just because Audrey identifies as Enneagram 4 INFJ, yep, right, doesn't mean that she interacts with INTP the same way she would INTJ. Certainly, probably not.

Yeah. No, I'd say it's different. There is a lot of overlap, though.

I shouldn't have given you an NT. ESTP.

Yes, very different.

There we go. Yes. Yeah. Which is I want to say shout out to Nathan, who calls that the cult leader archetype. So there is very like differing ways that we come across and that's why you need playbooks, especially on a one-on-one setting. But I also use them for sales and webinar too, which I'll cover some other time. As far as application, but just like the very simple things that Crystal knows is it can give you a— if you have a LinkedIn profile, a 1-second scan of your LinkedIn profile and just make a guess about 80% accurate on what your DISC type is. But if you take the 45-minute kind of version of it, you get strengths and their values, right? StrengthsFinder values, which I find to be very, very useful. Cool. So I think that's probably as in-depth as I want to go on Crystal for now. Otherwise I could go an hour and we could do a dedicated video. So drop Crystal knows in the chat below if you want that and I will add it to the roadmap even if it's 3 years out. Number 2, Brick. Did you take the Brick test?

I did.

Yeah, that's right.

I didn't take the ICK one, but I took the Q one.

Do you— how do you feel about your score? Do you know what your score is? I'm gonna look it up.

They finally sent it to me once. I felt like it was high enough to make me feel good about it, but not so high that I was like, I'm the greatest.

Now that— well, we won't share this on screen, but I'll show you now that you're out of New Reach ecosystem what your profile looks like on the background. Because normally what we do is we do share a profile when you guys take this test. It's cognitive and personality combined, which means it's super dope, um, and it allows for— well, we'll overlay it some other time, Audrey, but I definitely— yeah, here we go. Here you go.

I mean, you can show it.

Okay, cool. Yeah, you're— yeah, now that she sees that it's in the great percentile.

No, I knew because Nathan Momper had sent it to me once. Ah, maybe you sent it to me. Yeah, but yeah, like, I'm curious because I feel like you care about this more than anyone I've ever— any, like, hiring process I've ever been through. There were more interviews at Agexa and New Reach, there was more in-depth questioning, a lot more character questioning than I'm used to because a lot of the previous stuff was like— I feel like your process was a lot more about aptitude than it was about skill. Like, skill was there and I had to do the media buyer assessment, but the aptitude was like way bigger, which worked for me because I had very little experience at the time.

And I do zero skill assessments for usually senior level. So the fact that like, I think probably Tommy did skill assessment.

Yeah.

For a junior level, did you do the Excel version?

I did.

Yeah, I did Excel.

I cried violently. It was horrible.

Yeah, I don't know what you scored on that, but like, I wouldn't expect a junior media buyer to have advanced interpretation of marketing KPIs and calculate the ROAS of this is a math problem technically, but it's a jargony math problem. Yeah. So anyway, this matters.

What are the key things that you look at on this then? Like when you're looking at my profile, if I'm a candidate.

Yeah, because me and Josiah are a little bit different, so I'll speak for me. But both me and my business partner started Newreach. When I showed him this, both of us had done research into there being two, like, two things that have correlation to test people for before you just do the actual interview that are more like— you are actually more likely to get fooled if someone sits down to you and is persuasive than you are— that has like a less bearing on their success than two tests. One is IQ, historically in the research methods. It's just because people who are smarter, I don't know, generally speaking, have a leg up on the rest of us peers. So the rest of us peers who aren't like super geniuses, which I'm not either, we have to develop like these intangibles like grit and discipline and a bunch of curiosity, right, in order to slowly rise above those people. And that's what I feel like I did in my career. But IQ, if you are really smart and really hardworking, let's call it really dangerous combo. So to me, I know that me and Josiah both think of it as like two points on a line of just like how fast will someone get there?

Okay.

And the people that have a dot a little higher just have a head start. Yeah. But maybe the simple version of this is like the rabbit and the hare, like, allegory or whatever. Yeah, that's the children's story of it. That's what I'm trying to prove out with Brick. However, like, I do key in on certain things because I want to know where someone's downsides are and where I need to cover them. Like, for me, it's attention to detail, and then I'm good on the rest. For you, you're, you're above— like, you don't have any, like, glaring, glaring— you're well-rounded is what I'm saying here. 7, 7, 8, 7. And technically these have a decimal too. Like, I think your composite was 80-something and you're in the top 9% of the population, so more than me. And for me, people don't even have to be that smart to work here. Like, I'm just looking for basically above the baseline. Um, above 50 is like cool, you know, roughly where anyone can land, whether it's New Reach or like any New Reach role. But for media buying, 68 and above. Is what I like.

Really?

If I had—

yeah, there's a cutoff.

There's a cutoff for me, but luckily no one cares about that anymore because I don't hire media buyers. But that is my personal preference, is like anyone above a 68 can be in play.

Um, and do you feel like this method has helped you more than like going off of experience alone? Like, can you think of talent you've hired that had more experience on paper but it didn't work out versus—

yeah, like you and Dakota, like almost Everyone who I've— because I have a, I have a like a wealth of knowledge in media buying and a lot of like secrets that I can give people. And if you are again smart and hardworking, you can just get those goods and go way, way faster, way further.

Yeah.

So to me, and the projects that you put people on and challenge them on matter too, but that goes talent development path and more so like The Zen Drop story of just like pushing people within the first 30 days is core to my approach, which maybe is the third point. We'll go off brick. But yeah, if, if you guys want to take brick, we will reach out to you if you take it. It is—

they just want to know.

Yeah. Well, if you want to skip the job description stage and go right to the step 1 or step 2 in the process, whatever it is.

Yeah.

To me, you might as well advance it. We got finally point 3. TimCamp. Oh, everyone's favorite.

So I came around on it.

Let me see if I can make this sexy. What's the sexiest way I pitch TimCamp? How do I make people like it?

Uh, I think from an agency play it makes sense because it's like the, the thing that is the least scary. Well, it makes sense for everybody, but like time tracking, if you're an employee, like from my perspective when I first got on it, I was like, okay, well that's terrifying because I feel like they're gonna look for every opportunity to be like, you took a 5-minute walk at home. Like, yeah, notice that I didn't That's how it seems.

She said time tracking, I didn't.

Yeah, I think that the, the way that it was pitched in like the least scary way for me as an employee was more of like trying to figure out how much time you're allocating to clients and actually making sure, because like especially when we were 5 people at Agexa with like, I think we had 5 or 6 clients at some point 2 years ago, and so it became like crucial to figure out how much time are we actually bucketing versus how much money are we getting from this client and does that make sense.

Audrey, I'm glad that you get that. I like you. Most people don't like even— I tell them that 5 times, 10 times, but that like just goes right out the window. It is about margin. It's about client margin. It's the best agency lesson that another 8-figure agency told me early in Agexa, where as soon as I got onto this, agency profitability went up because you spend the most amount of time with the hardest clients who usually pay you the most or pay you the least. Like it's one of those two because if they pay you the most, you are so scared about losing them that you put all your effort in there and neglect the other part of your client portfolio, or they're a cheap client who like is a, is a complete drain and is not used to the type of service that an elite kind of like firm like ours— notice I said elite because we still are— would provide. Um, in addition though, that doesn't help the employee. No employee cares about that the agency owner makes more money. So how do I sell it to people? I tried various different ways. Here are some, here are some of my favorite ones over the years, Audrey, and you can tell me which one you like more. Um, because people, uh, again, yeah, time tracking never worked. Automatic time tracking that magically, like, yeah, like, uh, that magically classifies your time so you don't have to at the end of the day was my second variation of that. And I was like, isn't that cool? You never have to do timesheets, it just does them for you. That probably made it worse. Yeah. Okay, sweet. So like the improvement makes it worse for the pitch.

I mean, I liked it eventually, but I think that comes down to like the trust because I trusted you by the time that we were using it. I think I did have to actually start tasks when we first got into TimeCamp.

Yeah.

And then when it became automatic, like that helped.

But that's the thing is like you don't want to have to, you don't have to drain your trust bank in order to sell something that's good for you and the company because I truly believe it's good for both parties. So the version that's good for employees is, hey, if you spend the right time with the right clients, you make more money, like, because your bonus is higher. So like, that is not very— it's hard to follow that logic in particular. And I've never— I never got there because I was like, look, we— this client pays us $8,000 a month. This one pays us $2,000. You spent all the time with that client. Your bonus is around client retention. If we retain that client, like, yeah, that's way worse for you next month. If you retain that client, that's way better. So I'm like, logically, logically, logically, you should—

you're an INTP, right? So Actually, I will say, I think Amy told me that she was like, it's been nice because I can go to Nick Fisher and be like, look, I'm tracking my time automatically and I'm spending way too much time on like these 4 things that you need to get me out of.

Yeah.

And so I think it does give you like an employee a tool to be like, look, this client's sinking too much of our time, or it does, or to come back and be like, you said I wasn't working hard enough on this brand.

Like, yeah, which is the proof which some people use that for. But for me, um, and this I also never convince people of my motives except maybe you, is like To me, it's the, uh, if you don't use this, I go, okay, I don't care if you don't like it. It's kind of what I shifted into. If you don't use it and then you don't hit goal, then like you're getting cut from the team. Like, it shortens my, um, shortens my like leash with people instantly. Yeah, because I do believe in free will, and despite me having like preferences is what I would say, this is not a hard rule. It is on the onboarding. Yeah, but like, I never listened to all the things my boss told me, so Yeah. And sometimes people don't. Like I've noticed despite me telling even certain, um, Agexa people, they just don't use it. And I'm like, great, sweet. Then it's gotta be about performance. It's gotta be about objectives and hitting them and goals then in that case. So this, this to me gives you at least like creates at least double the amount of leash, uh, I would say for me on talent.

Yeah. There's probably something for like talent sourcing too there because I feel like the people who are most scared of it are the people who are most likely to abuse it. And like, maybe like, I don't know.

Shout out to Seth Carnes, who was doing mouse move— or no, no, it wasn't Seth.

I forgot about Seth.

Seth was not doing mouse. Seth was the first person to work out of a closet though, like his office space at the GEXA.

Dang.

Yeah, Gator. Sorry. AKA Gator. Matt Bryan. Shout out to Matt Bryan, I think, for doing the mouse movements to do the auto time tracking or something. That was the first time I had seen that. So I told him, I was like, that's dumb here, don't do that, that destroys my numbers. I was like, you're already here and it doesn't work like that. Yeah, it's like, it's just, it allocates based off the keyword. So if your client project is this, then it's bucketing time. So I'm like, it's not about mouse movement. Although I do love the idea in the future, the ultimate version of TimeCamp to me would be how many clicks that you made for a media buyer on your computer per day that yielded like positive ROAS, like like, basically, yeah, like, it's heady. But imagine, such a data geek. It's a data geek. And that is, that's value action narrative and activity. So like, to me, it doesn't matter if I'm doing mouse movements and look like I'm productive. It doesn't even matter if I'm sitting here and looking at a client's webinar and classing time there. Doesn't matter about time class. All that matters is like, client webinar is here. I'm like, great, click and then improve, or like, whatever. So extremely hard tracking problem. So I don't know if I'll ever get there, but that would be dope. And then we could really objectively measure people's contributions to the brand. Yeah, that defines some of my unique talent method, at least 3 things.

Yeah. No, I actually, I do, I want to, how do you use all this in a one-on-one with your employee? Like, how do all of those play in when you're actually managing talent?

And then CTA. So in fact, I'm going to midline CTA and say, if you are liking this conversation so far, click the link below and it will be maybe an application for Newreach or GEXA or something. What do we want to do here, you think?

It's a great question.

Yeah, you think about it while I teach the fourth concept. So, all right, so how it works on a one-on-one, um, let's do one between me and Audrey, who's still in here. So Audrey and Nick template would be one-on-one. So we got sales side templates over here, those aren't our concern. Team templates over here. And on my second page, I have Working with a Manager One-on-One template. And this one is going to create an agenda and personality advice in order so you can be the most efficient you can want to be in a meeting. And I like to get out of meetings efficiently and done well, either like hyper-efficient or like completely chaotic and way too long. Those are the only two options. So right here I can see Audrey is likely to appreciate rational plans for the future that were properly researched and thoroughly deliberated. Pragmatic, deliberate, rational at high level. Cool. She's nodding. Nick Fisher tends to be enthusiastic and decisive with a strong preference for autonomy. That resonates. Independent, assertive, and persuasive. Yeah. At my best, I am. So Enneagram 4 vs. 5. Fancy ways of saying I really care about mastery the most. Audrey really cares about unique expression, creative, sensitive, expressive. Yeah, unique. It's basically, yeah, the desire to find a distinct identity, they would say. Cool, that works for me. That's what I think. And then mine seeks a deep understanding of the world. Yeah, my definition of mastery. Sweet. So then from there, the cool thing is like I go right to values first with people in a one-on-one, like if it's our first one-on-one, until I remember at least one that I share with them. So like with Audrey, like we have two if I remember right. Let's see if that's true. Independence. No, privacy, privacy, privacy and privacy.

Mm-hmm.

Four and four. Oh, they're matching them up if they can now these days. I was like, man, it's, it's like a minor somewhat backwards concern for the environment is what privacy was number one there. So creativity is my strength. Creativity, creativity. So she values something that I'm perceived as strong at or tested strong at, which maybe is why, um, at least our relationship I think works really well. One of the reasons, and that might be it. Yeah, like, because I don't have any concern for others and I don't care about achievement that much despite me being goal-oriented. I just think it's smart to be goal-oriented. And responsibility only matters to me if it matters to someone else. So yeah, like that is the things that I should try to like keep in mind if I'm working with Audrey, because for instance, if she says something, hey Nick, can we shoot from— I have a hard stop at 6. It's now 6:04. So now I'm breaking my promise. Is that okay? Do you forgive me?

I do forgive you.

Thank you. So like, that's ish. If I had more, more time and it wasn't such an such an obtuse teacher here what I would have attempted to do, but we know each other well enough and she's giving me some grace here. It's important to challenge herself and work hard to improve though. Is that your number 1, or is that just—

yeah, I would say so.

Yeah, so for me, like, when— keep it simple stupid, just focus on one for one. And then I was like, cool, number 1 for me, although privacy has been there at times, concern for the environment. Case in point, the last video we just did, and this is in my home. That is the physical environment, but there is also the spiritual environment, the mental environment, the value— the values, like the Holy Spirit floating around you is part of the environment to me. So the environment to me is not just like save the whales in, you know, South Pacific Ocean.

Almost not a Greenpeace warrior.

No, like environment to me is like Environment to me is co-centric circles. So when someone's like, I care about the environment, I'm like, which one? Because you seem really far away from that one that you care so much about. Like, that's like, that's the negative head talk. And then I have to reframe that to be like, huh, they must value something else than environment. Like, we're just using the two words that don't mean the same thing. So they probably value like, you know, carbon, like, or they're like, Fresh air or something like that. And just because fresh air problem is that way doesn't mean that it doesn't affect me. But I treat environment like the closer you are to your environment is your environment. So if you say you care about China, then why aren't you in China? That's just logically how my brain works. And then once I explain that, normally it's like, all right, that's weird, but I get it now. I know what you mean by environment, why office design is so important to you, and why the people that I care about in the company matter to me more than the external circle, and certainly more the further you get out. Cool. Um, from there, I try to play to people's strengths, but not the first month. So I usually don't read through these. I'm like, yeah, we'll get to those eventually, but remember, you just applied for a job that was a different title than what you thought, so we're not going to probably play to all strengths. Um, and then from there, it gives you some general advice of just like, hey, here's the relationship overview. Persuasion and influence, working together and resolving conflict. Audrey and I don't have too much conflict, and if we did, we probably wouldn't know it because we both withdraw a little bit. Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm more energetic. Yeah. In arguments, tends to be more reserved when resolving conflict, but neither of us really resolve conflict well.

No.

Should avoid prolonging discussion or confronting Audrey too strongly. Yep, I've, I've been there. Uh, I just should try to match or come close to Nick Fisher. Yeah, good.

I talked to Steph about this at the mastermind.

Shout out.

Yeah, our conflict styles.

Our conflict styles are avoidant, or at least that's what I would call mine. Yeah, yeah. Um, our expectations up front.

I think what I love about you though, and like what I've liked about working at Agexa, is that obviously it's in the best interest of any talent manager to think about like what their talent wants and where they're going. But I think you've broken it down into a science in a way that most people don't, because you think about marketing that way and you think about talent the same way you think about marketing.

Thank you.

Yeah, I think that like you see matchups and fill gaps on a team because I think the crystal nose thing, like when you get into team dimensions with that, I think that you have hacked that in ways that other people haven't.

Yeah.

And understanding like how gaps get filled by different people on the team. Yeah. And even just like where to place people and like where you would push me versus like a David versus a Tommy. I think that you're uniquely good at that.

Thank you. And that's, that's a good now build to close here, which is I take a lot of pride in the end product of what all this nerdy stuff does is get people to where they want to go faster. And I can cite over 10 people now who, let's just say, like, got across the $100K a year mark who started with me as entry level. Um, certainly maybe more than 15, faster than anyone like I've seen in my peer group. So to me, I take a lot of pride on that when someone has ambition Sometimes you don't. They're like, I just want to chill here and make, you know, this wage job and I don't have room for growth. But those people generally don't end up staying too long at Agexa because the rest of the Agexa team likes to grow. So you get left behind. Yeah, but yeah, that's, that's the reason. So if you want to make more money faster, click the link below and we got it. There's no guarantee or offer.

There you go. Uh-huh.

All right, cool. That'll work for anything. If you want to make more money faster, click the link below. If you want a part 2 of this content series, just comment "more" or "Britney Spears" and we'll give you more.

Love it.

Cool.