Episode 21 Claudia Ginindza

Hello everyone and welcome to a new episode of Veerai's Wellness Podcast. Today I'm very happy to welcome Claudia Ginenza. She is from Eswatini and just 23 years old, studying BSc in Agricultural Economics and Agribusiness Management. Wow! I came across her post on social media about our own healing and how she is helping others heal in her community. Her love for understanding human behavior, self-development, and wellness started in school, and she started helping her peers find purpose and live a meaningful life. She started meditations at her campus, and it was the first time such an experience was created for the students at her campus. She helps women and men much older than her who harm themselves, are victims of maladaptive thoughts and behaviors, and who want to learn how to unburden themselves from negative feelings of being unheard, unseen, and being an outcast. Her dream is to help individuals through coaching and encouraging a more conscious community in the world. Wow, Claudia, I can't believe you are just 23 years old and you have that kind of dreams. I'm so glad we could speak today. Welcome, Claudia, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much, Neetu. I am excited to join you in the show. I've been looking forward to it, and I hope it will help as many people as it possibly can.

I'm sure it would. I saw your post on social media and it immediately grabbed my eye. I was like, I have to speak to this girl. And when we connected for the first time, I could feel the vibe. I mean, I could easily connect with you. I can feel the energy. And I was like, you have to come to my podcast. And here we are today, Claudia. I would really love you to share your story. What made you, you know, do things like starting meditation at your community, at your school, and at such a young age? What exactly, you know, is that transformation story for you?

Okay, so thank you for the question, Nitu. I had questions of what is a well-lived life, and it is so unfortunate that in our societies when you have those kinds of questions You are not encouraged to ask them, and you barely find the answers as well. So I wanted to understand, um, how I would live a more meaningful life, a happy life. I wanted to be happy. And you know, when you have those kinds of questions, people normally think that you overanalyze things, you are overthinking. And just because you get those answers, it doesn't mean that your questions have been fully satiated. So I kept on looking for those answers, and then I started reading self-help books. I started watching self-development videos, and I actually found the answers eventually. And I saw my life improving gradually. But at the back of my head, I was thinking that I must not be the only one who is going through this existential crisis, who wants to be happy, who wants to live a more meaningful life, who wants healthy relationships. Relationships, who wants to do something they're passionate about. And that is when I started talking to more people, and I actually find out that we are on the same boat. And then I started helping them. They found comfort in opening up to me, in sharing their stories, and I was listening to them attentively, giving advice. They were happy. They started to refer me to, to their other family members, to their friends. And that is how Claudia started being the wellness person and helping other individuals.

So good to know, Claudia, but you still haven't told me your story. Yeah, exactly. Happened that you— that actually made you to, you know, take that jump, take that plunge, and, you know, to be wanting to, you know, change. What was that transitioning time for you?

Okay, um, the transitioning time for me was when I started harming myself as well, um, because of this pain, because of this overthinking they call overthinking. So I started harming myself as a way of dealing with these emotions because we are not taught even at school how to unburden ourselves from those heavy emotions. So I started hurting myself. And the second thing was not having meaningful relationships. So even if you have friends or you are with family, you still don't feel the connection, the love, the support. And when you ask for it, you often feel rejected. So I had those kinds of feelings. And also, I am getting into university. I start studying Agricultural Economics and Agribusiness Management. I go to class every day. I remember one day asking one of my lecturers What exactly does an agricultural economic economist do in the work environment? And at the time, I didn't really find an answer that satisfied me. So it is basically like, I wake up every day, I go to class, I learn all these modules, but I don't find myself connecting to them. I don't understand what kind of an impact it is going to make in the world. So more than anything, I felt lost. I felt like I was experiencing so many emotions that I do not even understand what they mean. You are surrounded by so many people around you, but there's just that void. You don't understand. You have the question, why am I here? And am I really important? Do other people value me and see me? So I had these so many questions, and then they were not answered, and then I felt this existential crisis. I had recurring suicidal thoughts as well, because, you know, when you can't find meaning, then you just think of terminating this life thing altogether. Um, it was a very confusing time in my life. And because also you can't find meaning, you start distracting yourself. So I was binge eating unhealthy foods, and you're trying to distract yourself sometimes with alcohol or just watching series altogether all the time. So, and you also distract yourself with relationships that are not constructive. You know, you spend time with people who don't even really pay attention to your soul and who you are. That is when I realized that I am not growing, I am not happy, and I want to experience if there's really anything like contentment. Because in the dictionary we do have the term contentment and it has a definition And if it does exist, let me give it a shot before maybe I do something like actually committing suicide. And I took that leap of faith and I said, I want to find out if I can really live a happy life, if I can really have meaningful relationships, because we do see them in the movies actually. Then I want to see if it really does exist in the real world.

Yes, I can totally understand and relate, Claudia. It's not easy for someone to accept that there has been suicidal thoughts I have been there, and I know a lot of people goes there. It's very dark, it's not a comfortable situation to be in, but I think people who come back from there have healed, have understood that it's not worth going there, and probably I'll do anything and everything under the sun to be out of that place and in a place of light and contentment and satisfaction. I totally understand, and I'm so glad you are opening up about it. Maybe I don't know, is it for the first time for you to open up on like, you know, a public platform?

I think, I think I've had opportunities to be on podcasts as well, but, um, you were able to bring that answer out of me to elaborate it as much as I can. And I can feel the vulnerability from my side and how hard it is to open about it in such a public platform. It's the first time.

I understand, Claudia, and that is the whole point of having this podcast, so that we remove the stigma around this discussion and people understand that a lot of people goes through it and there is hope that we will come back from it. We can come back from it because people have healed and they have been able to pull themselves out of that situation, and you have, and kudos to you for that, Claudia. I'm so proud of you.

Thank you so much. Talking about it, I am taken aback and I can feel the emotions coming back all over again because it can be really an alone and sad and dark place to be in. And when you are without support, I don't wish it upon anyone, honestly. And the only thing I wish for people is to come out of that and see how much the very same world and place can be loving, can be supportive, and there can be hope, there can be life, there can be happiness.

Yes, and probably that is why you are helping others to understand the same thing. And you have found a meaning, a purpose from your experiences, Claudia. And very few people get that. They, you know, keep living life without purpose and they just die without purpose. But you are fortunate enough to have understood it at such a young age and are able to live that life of purpose that you want.

Absolutely, absolutely. Um, when I started reading books, that's when I found out that reading is actually important, because then you understand how people used to live life, and they left all of these clues, all of these ideas, all of this advice in those books. And one of the hardest things can be to take what is from the books and apply it in real life. It can be really challenging. So you find that for some people, maybe they do have the answers, but it is hard to apply it because first of all, um, you're going to leave a lot of people behind. You have to drop some behaviors, you have to drop some groups, some ways of thinking. And when you— it's basically like you are burying a part of yourself and you will have to grieve it, which can be absolutely scary. It is— the transformational journey is very scary, and it can also be isolating because it is like you are forming this new identity that comes with this new perspectives, and it is out of comfort zone. So it is really scary. That is why at the same time you're going to need support for this transmuted person that you are becoming, and also better and bigger and empowering beliefs.

I think that is where we all come from, our belief. And changing those beliefs is very, very difficult, but something that we really need to do because negative beliefs are not helping us. Yeah, please continue.

Absolutely, absolutely. So, um, as I kept on reading, I remember when I started, the first book that I read was by Eckhart Tolle, The Power of the Now. And I would read that book and close it again because I could feel the emotions emanating from time and time again. He's talking about things, I am doing them, and he's telling me that I have to stop them. So the first thing was that I feel like I'm reading this book and this person can actually see me and acknowledge what I'm going through, and it is real. Because when you talk to people about whatever existential crisis you're going through, they normally make it sound like it is an illusion, you're overthinking, it is not real. So this book actually showed me that what you are going through is real and it is normal, and you have to stop these maladaptive thoughts, these maladaptive behaviors. And it was really hard because I was identified with them. Things like anger. I felt like if Claudia is no longer angry, if she no longer holds grudges, then who am I? Because I live from this. Pain takes pain to survive, and now it was going to die. Who was I going to be? So it can be really, really hard, and that is why most people maybe stop midway with this process, especially when you are still, um, so yoked with these old groups that still believe in that kind of a lifestyle, and you just become this odd person again.

You become an outcast.

Yeah, you become an outcast again because you're trying to live this healthier life. But it is something that needs to be done, and I just told myself that Claudia, you're going to do this. It is an experiment. Try it. So I did isolate myself, spent a lot of time alone reading, meditating, jogging, exercising, eating healthier, and it had its rewards.

I can see that. Yeah, I can see that. I can't imagine a Claudia who had suicidal thoughts some time back. You have transformed yourself, Claudia, and you should be really proud of yourself. It's a lot of hard work.

It is. Thank you so much. It is hard work. You see, with the amount of time it takes, it doesn't take a month or two. It is a lifetime process. But before you can even see the results, it takes a lot of time. I, I started jogging and hiking, you know. You— I started to create this supportive environment for me, and that was going to encourage a healthy lifestyle. I started reading, I started watching self-development videos, and I started associating myself with people who are going to actually encourage that kind of a behaviour, who are going to be attentive listeners to my story and say, "Keep doing it." And it goes to the extent whereby I started sharing my journey on social media, on Instagram, talking about my transformation journey. And it can be kind of embarrassing at times. It can be kind of— why am I doing this? Yeah, vulnerable. It comes from a vulnerable place. But, um, as Brené Brown says, that it, it takes vulnerability to be courageous. So I guess, um, they are just— they happen concurrently. Um, so I started sharing my journey and when you come out to people like that, some people may try to distance themselves from you because who wants to be friends with a weak person? Who wants to be friends with a suicidal person? Who wants to be friends with a person who actually harms themselves? And that is the risk that I had to take to actually help other people because what I say is that it doesn't mean that people who harm themselves don't exist. They are there, they just don't open up about it and the difference about me and a few other individuals is that we open up about it, and we open up about it to make those who don't come out know that they are not alone and they can always find a cure for this. They can always be normal again. And there is hope.

And there is hope.

And there is hope. And humans need hope. We live for hope. We live for the belief that it can always get better, for a better future, for a better life. Without hope, then the suicidal thoughts just keep on amplifying and they can be manifested into a reality at some point, which is very sad.

It is sad, I'm sure. And Claudia, you are doing a lot of work in your community as well to uplift people and empower them with newer thoughts, newer beliefs. So how has that been an experience for you?

It is so amazing and because it is something that I find meaning in doing. Most people normally ask me, Claudia, how are you able to live with all of— with people telling you their problems, their sad stories? And I say it is what actually keeps me strong. It is actually what fuels my fire. It is actually what makes me happy because I feel like I am contributing to the world One of the things that will make us happy as humanity is serving something beyond ourselves and feeling like we are a part of a larger community. So doing this is what makes me happy and makes me feel like I am giving back and I am part of a larger community. So I have grown so much from doing this. I was so excited a couple of days back that I have even started writing down contracts you know, just to help my clients. So I am growing as well in this wellness space, which is really exciting for me. But, um, more than anything, before we take it to the business side of it, what I enjoy is to actually just sit and listen to people. And I derive happiness from getting the feeling that this person has felt seen today, has felt heard, without being judged, without feeling like they are abnormal. And they were actually validated, and they were actually provided with tips, with guidelines that they can use to live a much more purposeful life. And by the end of the session, a person is telling you that, Claudia, I am really grateful for you 'Um, this session, with the session, I know that I'll be a better person. Some of the tips that you have actually been giving me have been helping.' You know, sometimes they just call me to say that, 'Claudia, now my father and I are better. We are in the happiest relationship than I ever thought we would be.' Or they say that, 'I can see myself losing weight. I can see myself— I'm doing better at school now. I can see myself— I'm not harming myself anymore.' and now they're able to be even healthy and conscious individuals in their extended relationships. So that experience on its own has been a very meaningful experience for me. Some of those people, you find that I'm not even coaching them anymore, but they just keep on giving me this feedback. They keep on— and they know that with Claudia, they always have this room to go and ask for help whenever they need it. I was at my former campus just a couple of days back, and I was just greeting some of those self-healers that used to attend my meditation sessions. And I see them and they keep on saying, Claudia, when you told us this during meditations, you were right. I see this. It is helping me now. Claudia, just like you said, we need to vision. Just, just like you said, we used to do breathwork. It is actually working. Just like, you know, you used to say we should network and create relationships with our lecturers, with our peers. It is actually helping. And that actually makes me happy. I believe that a conscious community is how we can achieve greatness as a collective in the world, and I just want to see more of that around me.

That's superb, Claudia. I mean, you are doing such great work at such a young age. I keep telling that you are at such a young age doing such great work because I cannot imagine myself being your age, like it must have been like 15, 20 years back, and be this mindful, you know, be a person who's actually grown so much with her experiences. You know, we all go through a lot during our teenage years, we go through a lot when we are in our early 20s, early 30s, but how many people make that effort? You have made that effort, and now you're also helping others with your efforts. I'm really, really proud of you, and I'm so glad I met you and we are having this conversation today. So Claudia, uh, you know, uh, with all your experiences of your own healing, you know, helping your clients, what is that one thing that you think that should be a priority for us for our wellness journey, and we should be mindful of it? Something that, you know, the audience needs to hear that 'Okay, this is something that gives me hope. I should start with this for my transformation.' What would that one thing be?

Perspective. I think perspective is reality. The one thing that I realized in my entire journey to achieving contentment and a meaningful life, I realized that it was a shift in perspective. It doesn't mean that I became happy because I have all the money in the world or or all the assets in the world, but it was a shift in perspective and realizing the important things in my life, my values, what is important to me, what are my guidelines, what kind of a life do I want to live, do I want to manifest, what is within my control and out of my control. I started living a Stoic life Stoicism, a life of Stoicism. And, um, one of the Stoics that I admire so much is Epictetus. Epictetus was a slave, um, and he was disabled by his master. He was imprisoned, he was exiled, but he was still able to leave Stoic teachings for us today. He spoke so many positive things and gave us guidelines to living a a purposeful life, a calm life. And I like to learn from those kinds of people because he would have found all the reasons to be unhappy in life, but he, he still had a great impact even in other people's lives. So mindfulness is important. And then one of the other Stoics is Marcus. Marcus was wealthy, fine, but he journaled his life. He left his thoughts there, and he left a book today we call Meditations that was just him journaling. So it's just a shift in perspective. And every individual out there, I want them to ask themselves, do they have a positive outlook? Do they journal their life? Are they mindful? Do they often reflect, sit and think, am I happy? How is my life? Is it growing towards the direction that I want? And that would go as far as the immaterial things. Am I loving? Am— do I express myself, um, my feelings? Am I able to channel my emotions? Do I even understand my emotions? Do I understand the kind of feedback they are trying to communicate with me? How am I in my relationships? Because who you are inside and the relationship that you have with self reflects externally into your tangible world as well. So I just want individuals to understand that it is important to ask yourselves these questions from time and time again. And sometimes it can be scary, the questions can be very— the answers can be very uncomfortable, but ask them. Sometimes the most important step is just asking them, even if you don't find the answers, even if you don't label them. But just ask. And then with time, it's going to seep into your conscious to find those answers, and you pay attention to the most important things in life. So perspective, values, mindfulness, initiative, effort— it's just the little things really that make the big, better life for you.

Absolutely. I'm so glad you, you know, use the word perspective, because even I started having my transformation journey when I started thinking about, you know, uh, other people's perspectives. You know, that things that I am looking at is my perspective, but if I start looking at it from other people's perspective, I will be mindful that they are behaving in a certain way because of their own learnings, their own background, the events that has happened with them, and they are looking at the event now with their own perspectives. So I have to be empathetic to their perspective, just like I expect others to be empathetic about mine. So this thing, that this understanding of perspectives, you know, brought a huge change in me. And even people who have tried to be nasty with me, who have tried to be toxic, I still think about, okay, this person is behaving in a way because of the events that they have been through. And I think this is perspective, that I should be mindful that they have not healed. I have healed, and, you know, they have not healed, and I have to be, you know, I have to care for them now, that they are going through something and they are not even aware of it. So this is something that really, you know, changed me. People, you know, kept telling me things when I was going through a transformation. They kept telling me things. They would laugh at me. They would say things that, you know, uh, she's weird. But I understand that they don't understand what I'm going through. They don't know what I'm going through, and they do not have the perspective that I have. And it's totally fine. It's absolutely—

exactly, exactly. Just like he said, they'll think you are weird. That is their perspective. And perspective goes as deep as even what you consider as bad. Or a negative experience. It's all on perspective. So sometimes, you know, you find that something that I would previously label as a negative experience, for me it is a learning chance. For me, it is just an experience for me to, to have and learn from it and grow out of it. I'm always searching for what is the lesson here. And I told myself that anything that happens to humans in this world, it is for me to experience, and I can always learn out of it. I can always survive it because people have survived before. I've made an example of Epictetus. So even today, it is up to me to challenge my perspective and choose, am I really going to take this as a negative experience or just a human experience for me to have and learn from it and enjoy from it and cherish it, because it is not even permanent, you know. So it is a continuous journey of refining your perspective and just codifying whatever is happening in your life.

Yes, yes, totally. I'm so glad, and I can keep talking to you forever, Claudia, because I could feel the energy, I could feel the vibe. But I think this brings to a close to the podcast, and I'm really, really thankful to you to make out time because we are in different time zones. You're in a different country right now. I think you're traveling also, but still you made time. Thank you. Thank you so much, Claudia, for coming to the podcast today. I'm sure our audience will take out a lot of insights from this episode.

Absolutely. Thank you so much, Neetu, for inviting me as well. And I can feel the vibe as well and watching your journey as well. Um, I hope your followers, your, your audience learns a lot from it. Um, as I shared the last time, that the beautiful thing about a transformational journey— we're not attending to the same church or a same workplace or same sort of a group, but you can always relate. You had your own different journey, were different age, we have different worldviews, but when it comes to a meaningful life, a purposeful life, a mindful life A better life. We share the same views.

Yes.

And that's because, because, you know, there's this guideline to life, and if we follow it, understanding that we're all having these unique paths, then we can achieve a meaningful life together as a collective.

Yes. Thank you, Claudia. Thank you so much. Thank you for coming to the podcast today.

Thank you to Wellness