Episode 32 Satyanand

Hello everyone and welcome to a new episode of Veerai's Wellness Podcast. Today we have Satyanand with us. Satyanand is an engineer and an MBA from IIM Cozycote, and he's also the founder of Akiredo, on which he's working for last 5 years. Welcome Satya to the podcast.

Thanks for having me here, Neetu. It's a pleasure to get interviewed by a person like you.

Thank you so much, Satya. Just a minute. Okay, so Satyanand, please tell us more about Akiredo and your journey with Akiredo.

So, uh, slight correction in the introduction. I study from IIM Indore. Cozicode is like down south, and I'm from Madhya Pradesh, educated from Madhya Pradesh. Okay, about that, yes, fast forward to Akiredo Technology. So, uh, I'll actually skip the part, uh, before I'll— what we are doing today, I'll say about that. Yes, so today we are in, uh, Electronics Original Design and Manufacturing. So the kind of areas we are currently serving is embedded, uh, systems, uh, which, which means hardware plus a logic board, uh, microcontroller on the board. Then we are into IoT systems, which means connect, uh, device, electronic devices which is connected to internet and it can transmit data over the internet. And, uh, the very recent development is we have come into AIoT. So that's AI plus IoT devices. So very interesting use cases on like face detection, object detection. Voice recognition. And I think our first device is going to come out in October. And you're working with very, very young people. This is the— this is first time that I'm working with very young, uh, people who have not even got out of college. So this is the portfolio we are working today, uh, with. We started with, uh, electric vehicles back in 2000 17, 18.

Yeah, we know that. Worked with you on that for a very long time. But I think, uh, pivot was necessary, and, uh, you, you created your focus with design and implementation.

We were, we were good at engineering, uh, we were not very good at, uh, you know, automobile or industry per se. So I think we stuck to our core from there on, right?

So I mean, how has been the transition like for you when you were doing automobile and you decided that, okay, this— now I need to be into my core business? What was that, you know, mind shift moment for you?

So it, it came to us very hard, actually. Uh, obviously, one, one, uh, the numbers that spoke for themselves, and we didn't— did not know the reasoning behind it. So, for example, revenue was not coming easy. We worked really hard, but the revenue wasn't coming easy to us. And at that point of time, we did not— I did not have that much maturity to dig into what was happening, why is not working out. But later on, we realized while during switching, the reasoning was that It's not working out. But after we switched, we understood why was it not working out. So in automobile sector, it's not about it, uh, the core companies which are there in automobile sector, they're more about consumer, uh, understanding the consumer, understanding the competition, and and then bring the engineering into picture. While we were the engineering-first company, so we used to like come with the— come up with the product and then want to— wanted companies to adopt it. And we did not have that much of energy and that much of bandwidth to focus on market research and do other activities than engineering. So after we switched to core engineering, design, and manufacturing. We understood, okay, we did not have that expertise. Uh, not just expertise, we did not have that bandwidth, that, uh, temperament to approach the market that automobile needs. Yeah, maybe serve automobile. Today we are working with automobile companies and we'll kind of understand, okay, this was what was needed at that point of time to be done.

Okay, so how, you know, there must have been a lot of emotional turmoil at that time when you decided that this is not— because because you had spent a lot of time on the previous startup. I mean, yes, you know, business model, if I would say the startup name is same, but then when you were making that shift, you know, there must have been a lot of emotional turmoil inside that something that you have worked on for a very long time, it's not working out now, and now you need to move on to your own core. So how did you manage yourself at that time?

I, I had definitive emotional moments. So I'll walk you through that. So when, uh, when we started, we were very excited. We, we were, we were pumped. We, we thought that we had the, we had the problem line which had, which could have an impact of at a very large segment, and a problem line which is not being solved by others. So we were trying to get into shared mobility space with electric vehicles. So bike sharing per se. And at that point of time, world was seeing it in China, Taiwan, US, Europe. These kind of models are coming still. Those kind of business models are there. But India was a different, different demography altogether. There's so many other factors which play. So my first milestone in emotional change was when we spent around a year giving out pamphlets to people, visiting organized office campuses, and still not able to crack into the main segment, right? That point of time, I, I actually, if, if the ego was at this level, the first break was like, okay, ego has to come at this level. Yeah, you are going to go out there and give out pamphlets to people. And I remember one of my friends, he's a colleague, no, he has studied with me, and he initially, he thought, okay, I'll pick up the pamphlet and go and distribute it. And he said Just one or two person he confronted and he said, 'My ego is not allowing us.' So that was my first emotional milestone, and, uh, that was where I thought, okay, fine, it is not happening, it will not happen. So from there we went into the app model. It did not work for another 6 months. And then he said, I started questioning the business model I'm getting into. And at that point of time, right at that point of time, world's largest bike sharing company went bankrupt.

I remember we had that conversation.

Yeah, it went bankrupt and I was like, oh my God, I was anchoring my belief on this business model, on this firm which is doing very good. Abroad, but they internally, they were decaying. So that was a second emotional, uh, step where we understood, okay, I have to also question my business model. Third was like we moved away from bike sharing into, uh, giving, uh, into giving products to OEMs so, so that they can manufacture electric vehicles. But that also was a very difficult area because there's humongous competition in automobile. Automobile is a difficult sector to crack. We worked day and night, we got a client, we got 2 clients in fact. We were unable to serve, and then we understood, okay, it needs a different level of capability altogether. Capacity per se, a manufacturing capacity, and there's so many other capacities that has to come into play. We were a small team back then, and that was the third emotional milestone where we said, okay, We are not good to do this as well. And that part of economic— any, any decision was— in any decision we had to take into account how much money do we have in the background account. Every month, uh, we used to— we have to be ensure that next 5 months is going to go good with our employees. So that was the third, third place, and that actually set me right that not just the idea, not just the market, there's internal factors that has to come into play. And you have to part away with your brainchild, and that's okay. Probably that brainchild was not good enough. That is my, like, third, uh, emotional breakdown from where I understood, okay, we have to get practical now. It doesn't just work with passion and you know, the passion and the willpower. It has to have a lot of logic and numbers around it to support your passion and willpower. So that's where— these were the 3 major steps of my emotional, you know, twists.

Okay, so did it contribute a lot to your final decision-making that, okay, this is what I need to stick to now? And how did you manage your emotions at that time?

So, so it's a little bit more to it. I come from an MBA background, and that too, like IIMs, they rigorously teach you numbers. That is, for a long period I thought CAs are stupid, for a long time. Why can't they do managerial accounting? Why? What are they building data for? And every small thing that I used to do, I used to build proper Excel sheet and everything. When I was doing my— that last emotional well-up bit, we— I brought in practical aspect to it. Everything does not have to go on Excel sheet and come out and prove itself. How— and that is when you said that, how did you manage yourself? I had to actually tell myself, what do you have been doing so far? Has it been productive? Has it been giving you fruits? But there was a— there was two persons inside me. One was pushing me towards get structured, get, uh, get numbers on the Excel sheet, do all the analysis, evaluation. The other person is, let's do something that works. So when these two people were conflicting inside me, there was continuously pressure from the person who says, let's do something that works, onto the person saying that, tu nahi kaldiya, teri se kuch hua gaya, abhi tak kuch hua hai. Let's do it in the way that works in this real world. And that is where I actually let that conflict happen. And let the other self prove itself. It could not, and then we went the practical way. So I think, how did I manage? The answer is I let the conflict happen. Let the altruism exist inside myself and sit hours to make that conversation happen between the two persons inside me.

So that was the conversation between your conscious and subconscious, is it?

Might be. I came to know about how it happens, but I think I did know. In my case, the conversation was like this. There was one question posted by me and then a counter-question posted by me itself.

Yeah, that's the discussion between your conscious and the subconscious. So you basically let them have that conflict and get the message in the mess.

Ah, you— but that needs a lot of maturity. That is where people will say, let it go. If you don't let that conversation— in my case, if I don't let that conversation happen, I would, I would end up just dropping everything. Yes, let's go back to— in fact, I visited a couple of firms. I got very good offers at the back then. I don't know that there's one person who asked me a simple question, uh, that you started all this and you just want to leave it like this? Think about it, the job is yours, you can come back and join any day. And that was one question that I will still— I I never met him again. I'll go and thank him that he let that— ask myself, okay, did you have this conversation properly? Are you going to let go of this? And that question was posted inside, and these two people inside me talk to each other and then move forward.

Wow, superb. So, Zata, tell me, you are managing a team right now. Managing a business is, I mean, difficult, and you are completely bootstrapped. How do you take care of everything around you, including your employees' well-being and your personal well-being as well?

Um, so I— there's, there's a pecking order to this. Employee welfare, employee mental health, and employees' well-being is always above. Fortunately, we, we had the— we slowly and steadily, the way when we started building a culture inside the company that we are going to stay startup you're going to work like this. This is the, this is, this is the kind of attitude everybody should carry. Whatever you do, be relaxed. Nobody is going to question you until, uh, so far as you know that, uh, you are doing, uh, this for the larger good. And a small example, there's no, no, no restriction for our employees to come to office. They can, they can choose on themselves to take work from home. All they have to do is— and if somebody happens to ask, 'I was looking for you the other day in the office,' he— all he has to tell, make a good reasoning in front of the person that this is why we— I chose to be at home. And so that way, once we started building this culture inside the company of taking care of yourself, your actions, be altruistic to the work that you're doing for the larger good. Slowly and steadily, we had people departing, departing from Argo, and we had a couple of people coming closer to the core of the company. And that is where I knew that I had to take care of the mental well-being of the people who have stayed back, because they find they relate to the core of the company's culture. And so we have, as I said, one of the culture that we have built is you are responsible for your work. You want to stay home and you think it is more productive, stay home. If you think you can come to the— you come to the office and it will be more productive, you come to the office. Timings. We— general timing is 10 to 9:30 in the night. Post that, we start questioning, why are you staying back? You need to go. People can come during any hours between this. Office is open. Secondly, uh, we have built in a culture wherein we work on the personal goals of guys. So when we do annual appraisal, we don't just say, okay, your, your KRIs were this, this, this, this, this. And, uh, you achieve this one percentage of your— we have clear 4 sections of appraising individual. I think one of the major section is where you want to take this company to, what is your vision about this company. And second, the last section is where we ask them what is your personal goal in life, whether you want to do something, you have a smaller brother or sister who, who needs education, you want to fund that. Whatever is your personal goal, you put at least for next 2 years, put that into paper and allow the firm to work around that so that we make this easier for you. The basic principle has been until unless your employees are sound at your— there's least problem in their life, you cannot expect state-of-the-art contribution from them. And being an engineering R&D firm, they have to learn every day. So we all know when we were in college, we literally had no pressure on brain. So that's what we are doing for the employees. That's how we are navigating in well-being of the employees. And obviously, after that comes me. So I have also made some goals for myself. Like around 6 months back, I was involved in everything. Not 6 months back, it started like a year back. I was doing everything. My team was like, they multitasking, they not multitasking, multifunctional team. Then we hit a roadblock where we had in incoming queries and we were unable to serve those queries. Then we questioned the structure of our company. The structure of our company was monolithic, linear in nature. That was the first time we started— we had an internal meeting and we, we thought, why are we getting stuck? And we, we built— we brought a structure in the company. We separated departments. And you won't believe we had one person in one department. What kind of department is that? That point of time. And in fact, there were departments which there are two or three departments managed by one person, which was stupid to do at that point of time that we could not understand it. Why are we doing this? When a single person has to still do multiple departments work, but that structure today makes sense when new people are coming in. Departments are getting handed over to them, and it has given us, uh, given our employees and myself a lot of, uh, a lot of visibility of the scope in which we have to work. So if somebody's scope is full, filled, uh, completed, it doesn't need to come into the office for next week until it's again— scope has something. But that has built a lot of visibility for all the employees. Now, for myself, in last 6 months I have done something like I have to focus on, uh, 2 areas. One is, uh, new product development, and there is sales and business development. And the moment we have started this I see that I have got flexibility into things. One, I can see what is missing in the growth story of— I can literally see, like, I have elements to do. And second thing that I have got for myself is I have the freedom to do it. I have the freedom to do it from anywhere, have the freedom to do it at my pace as long as I'm meeting those goals. So even for this session, I'm not at my office as I told you. So, and that, and my team, nobody is complaining about it. Why should they complain when their scope is need something else, my scope needs something else, and that way, right? I don't know, I might have spoken a lot about what we have done.

No, but that makes sense actually. I think there are a lot of people who can take cues from this because, you know, the founders, they are not sometimes able to understand if they're doing something right or not. So if somebody already has worked on a model and it's working for them, then why not just replicate that model and make it work for you as well? Why, you know, re-engineer and redesign something which is already working? So you have made that effort, and I think founders who would be looking at this take some cues out of it, and they might even reach out to you to understand how you created those departments and that culture in the company.

No, need is— need, need is the mother of invention. Yeah, it's quite true. The moment you start, you start hitting your head to a wall, you understand, okay, I am stuck at a wall, what next, what next, what next.

Yeah, so once you start asking these questions and become curious about it, then you also come across things that you want to learn more, you need to develop yourself personally to basically go to the next level. So this is what even I have realized, that if I'm feeling stuck, if there is something which I feel like— and your inner self will give you that trigger, you know, that what I'm doing right now is maybe not up to my potential, I need to move to the next level. So what next? And that's when, you know, I just go on a learning spree. And now I need to, you know, take everything, just shut down, and I just work on myself for a few days. And then from that, I get back into work, and it definitely shows in my work in that time then. So tell me, one more question I have, Satya. When you are hiring people, because that's one thing, you know, most startups are struggling with hiring and retaining people also. How do you ensure that you do not let people who has been in toxic culture to bring in their toxicity and, you know, spoil the culture within? How do you make sure of that? This is a very big problem that companies face day in, day out.

We, uh, so many things has been— I still think there are gaps through which this toxicity can enter my office, but, uh, we have done a lot of things to ensure this. Our induction program is, which is lately launched, very recently launched, but we never knew that induction programs can do a lot of work for you. We were— okay, first I'll tell you, when we hired somebody, we, we— until and unless we have cultural match.

Sorry, how do you ensure that there is a culture?

Yeah, he will— we, we have multiple rounds of discussion and with multiple people. We have a flat structure in our organization, very, very flat. So everybody gets to interact. If suppose it is an R&D hiring going on, there are two things we have to ensure: one, cultural match, another is skill set requirement fulfilled. That, that's the basic compensation, everything comes Rest of the things will come. At the, at the, uh, there is a screening process. So we, we, we on purpose have let that happen online. We do— there's, there's, uh, there's resumes that come in. We don't want to touch them until unless they have gone through the screening process. And then screening process is a very basic analytical test and whatever respective department they're coming in. If they're coming in R&D, they will be R&D questions into it. Once that screening is there, we are at least not more than, uh, 5 to 10% of the resumes are left. 90 to 95% people are gone. And this, this, this we have understood with the new, new, new kind of people coming into the market. We have which have heavy resumes, but in practical, uh, practically they are difficult, they are finding it difficult to implement things. And when practical questions come to them, they answer. Second step is they interact with their respective department people. The questions are like very, very different type of questions, like, what is kind of cuisine you are, and daily office, expectation department. Generic talk happens and a vibe is exchanged. I have never got a feedback where people are saying, uh, we have got feedback, he is a young person, he has a family in the back, he has always been in tinkering mode. He will learn himself. And we, we value that. Then, then the second round of interaction where at organization level, me or Ashwini or somebody from senior person who interacts, then we kind of understand the need and necessities of the person. And will he, will he be there in our thick and thin? That kind of understanding we try to develop. We had employees, that's why we understand that aspect of the employee. And once that is done, then we let the HR people take over. So that's, that's the hiring schema we are following today. One thing that we added recently was induction program. Induction program speaks a lot about person's attitude when you load him with, with the work. We, we want them to do some real work and under pressure still be mentally sane and, uh, you know, into interact properly into the ecosystem they have been inducted into with their teammates, with this, uh, with the stakeholders. So when during induction program we try to keep it very real. Like exactly the work they are doing. We give conditional offer later when they are chosen by these rounds that I spoke about. Thereafter, induction happens. Induction is like 3-stage process for us, and until unless that they come out clean on the other side of the induction, we don't engage with them.

Hmm.

Oh, do you, you want example?

That would really help if, if you could give an example how, how you are actually structuring it, because viewers who have heard so far. Would also like to know how practically it works.

So initially, hiring was an outsourcing thing for us. It was a thing which was consuming our time and we were irritated out of it. We didn't want to do it ourselves. We wanted consultants. We'll hire them, give them 8.33% of the total CTC of the year, or annual CTC, and then get the— that was the attitude towards hiring. 2021 changed everything. We, we— our attitude changed that health of the organization is equivalent to health of the employee base that you have. Then we started investing into our time into doing that. And one of the recent examples is we were— we launched our first internship program. We used to have interns, we did not have a program for them. Program designing is a hectic task. You literally view, view the life cycle they're going to have through your organization. Initially it was like, and we were good to them, and then they had their own But now we understand, uh, think ourselves to be responsible towards somebody who are bringing in. And for the productivity that we need from them, we need to design a program for them. It needs time, energy, and contribution of all the team members. Now we get the buy-in of everybody. So when we started hiring, uh, our team member has actually given us a digital face while hiring. They were— we, we, uh, connected with a lot of training and placement cells of a lot of colleges, and then came in questions like stipend kitna milega, stipend kitna milega. Then we thought, okay, we need to have a policy. He sat down, built a policy for internship, and in that policy we, we are again brainstorming why we need interns. Then there are two major points which came into picture. Then got built the policy. Policy had a very strong line in it. It said, uh, internships are for learning, not for earning. Bold, or guiding principle. And you won't believe, we have rejected close around 80 to 70% candidates who actually violate this line.

But you do pay stipend, right?

Yeah, we do. We pay very handsomely to our interns, but we don't commit it upfront. We don't tell that you are coming into because you'll get stipend. We, if they choose to come in to learn, once they got get cross all the stages of hiring and they are in the team, then we open up and give them. I'm very— we not only pay them as stipend for the work they do, we also ensure that they don't pay any money out of their pocket. Time to time we talk to them and ask, so for your, uh, knowledge growth, what are the things? Do you need a training program? Do you need an internet? Or do you need mobile connectivity? Do you need a lab? So whatever is that, let us know. Your supervisor will arrange for it or pay in, pay in the amount. When I'm saying all this, you, you must have visualized that we ourselves have actually gone through revising the process through which we get the best of the best. And in during this process, a lot of time we have questioned ourselves. Initial days, we will either arrange for it or we will give you money commensurate to that. 90% There are only 10% of the people who think, are the people who come in.

And that is the kind of people you want with that kind of mindset who comes in for learning. Because once the element of, you know, how much I am getting paid, then they start making decisions from that point of view that, you know, okay, I will join this company because it's paying me this much, rather than coming to learn and contribute, they start thinking from, you know, that point of view. And it's okay for them also to think that way because everybody has different backgrounds, right? So for some, you know, learning is important, for some money is important. But what do you want is your decision-making process in the company.

Or as per hiring, you're saying?

Yes. So I'm the one that—

my mind is clear. So this was example of intern, how we hire interns. When it comes to employees, the policies are different. Uh, we do take care, we understand that they are, they cannot pay their bills by, uh, you know, by just learning. They have to pay their bills, right? They have children to take care of, they have their wives. So that aspect comes into picture. We add those aspects into our hiring process. We— and how do we do that is also very different. As I said, annual appraisal is not about— there's also one piece into it, personal goals, right? So during, uh, we— during hiring also, we understand this aspect of the personal goals. If there is a monetary goal to it We— and if we are capable of meeting that, then only we onboard. If we are not capable of meeting that, we don't onboard.

So now what I understand is basically, for you, you have understood that hiring and retaining employees and also running a company is something which is not transactional. It is not transactional. Most of the companies, they think of hiring as a transaction, right? That you will come, you will give your services, and you get paid for it. It is not a transaction. And if you're thinking that way, it's— it definitely will get you stagnant somewhere. But what I see with you is that you have set yourself up for growth, and from here it's no looking back, uh, it seems.

At least, at least till, till we have people, at least 2 layers of people in each department, we are going to I think there is some noise that you are getting disturbed with.

No, I'm not.

Okay, fine.

Okay, okay.

So I think until that there is there, that layer which can take care of rest of the things in the organization, we are not, we are not at all resorting to the consultant way of hiring people and referral. So this is to everybody, uh, whoever gets to watch this. Referral is the golden set of employees. Agar aapke employees referrals se aara, take special advantage of that power. Referral power. That's best of the lots.

Yes, yes, because somebody who knows personally and can refer are the ones, you know, you are actually looking forward to having in the team. So yeah, with that, you know, I understand, Satya, that you have set yourself up for like tremendous growth, and all power to you. And thank you so much for coming and sharing the wisdom today. I hope a lot of people will take away a lot from this, and I'm so happy and glad that your company makes your and your employees' wellness and mental health a priority. Good luck to you.

Thanks a lot. And Neetu, you have been there throughout the entire journey of this company. You have seen it seen it from, from the stages that there was nothing and to the stage where we are able to keep up with everything.

Yes, yes.

And I hope that you will be there throughout when we are going upstairs as well.

Absolutely, I'm watching you.

Thanks a lot for bringing me here to share my thoughts on it.

It has been a pleasure, Satyanand. Thank you so much for coming.

Have a good day. Bye.