Episode 40 - Sarbjit Kaur

Hello everyone and welcome to a new episode of Veerai's Wellness Podcast. Today we have Sarbjit Kaur with us. Sarbjit is a psychotherapist, a communication coach, and a training and development executive for last 25 years. 25 years, Sarbjit, tell us more about it. What does it mean to be in industry for 25 years and what have you been doing all this while?

Hello, Neetu. First of all, my gratitude for inviting me to this podcast.

It's, uh, I'm sure it's going to be an amazing discussion with you and a new dimension of understanding would go across. Yes, um, 25 years has been a long time. I started my career way back in the year 1997.

That was with the blessings of Almighty.

I got a good break with Jindal Group of Companies educational institutions, and we had tremendous, you know, learning happening every day initially, and then it went to periodically because they believe in manpower development a lot. And we—

I had— I would say it was a blessing to be there and learning from great mentors who were coming as consultants.

And it was a rigorous training for us, and I learned a lot. And that's where my journey started, and I never turned back.

Wow.

I, I'm— my, my vision and mission is, is all clear.

Uh, developing people and places is something which is which I am very focused all the time, and that's the purpose of my life.

Yes, and, uh, we have been in the same workshop together, uh, multiple times, and I could literally feel that love and connection that you have with people during those times. So I— whatever you are saying, I totally believe it because I have felt it myself.

Thank you so much, Neetu. Yes, uh, it was a great connection with you, and I really admire and cherish that moment, that stage. And in fact, any relationship which has come into my life, I have always cherished it, no matter what the future of that relationship would be or what it has gone into. Fine, because it's a soul-to-soul connect, and we connect, we associate with people, that connections which we build up with people, they go deep from my side. And I'm very happy when I come across people who get deeply connected with me because my profession does not allow me to work on the surface. I have to go deep, and if I do not understand the psyche of individuals in my role and responsibilities as a facilitator— I have come across many people, many hundreds and thousands of people in my these 25+ years of time where I have, I have felt that I am blessed by Divine to to safeguard the life of certain people and to leverage them, you know, from their current state to the desired state. At that time, I wasn't knowing much about things.

It's just like there's an innate ability in me which I am now all ready, you know, to move to far and wider places to help out. People.

Because from training and development, from learning and development professional expertise, it's all to do with manpower. Fine. So that's very amazing journey, uh, when we connect with the people, whether it is to talk about processes, whether it is to talk about what the management, you know, um, charter is all saying, and it is to be conveyed through me as a training and development head or as the operations head into training projects. But then the core of me is that I have to convey and make sure that people understand it, and they understand in that spirit, because at the end of the day, it is the development of the organization. If it happens, the development of the self is, is, uh, is an automation.

That's what I have experienced in my life.

I didn't have to take much extra efforts to develop myself because I was aligned always with the processes and procedures of the organizations. Because growth of the organization is in my mind, the growth of the self is automatically going to take place.

So, you know, in your last 25 years of journey, it does come across from whatever you're saying right now that there has been phases of transformation for you as well, from being a seeker to now being a giver, because whatever you are saying, it's coming across from someone who wishes to give back to the society now. So would you like to discuss more about this transformation journey that you have been through?

Very million-dollar question, Neetu.

Yes, I give the credit to all my mentors, and till date I'm in touch with some of my mentors, and a few of them physically they are no more in this world.

And the first mentor which I have in my life, and I cherish, you know, interacting with that soul, it's my own father. And I mean, because he was internationally traveled, widely traveled, and he was into international assignments being a technical training advisor to the World Bank through Ministry of Agriculture. So he— I mean, the seeds of training, the seeds of developing people and places, I think I got it in my DNA. And it was polished and taken care of by my first mentor, my father. And that environment, that culture which we had at home was amazing. I mean, great learnings I had it from him. And then my Some of my university professors, I'm still in touch with them.

And I would not resist mentioning about that, how my mentors, you know, children.

So they have given the responsibility that, 'Sarabjit, you need to mentor our children.' Now they're working, some might settled in countries outside India.

And I find that it is a legacy carried forward, fine. And any amount of learning is always less.

Mentor is a person who is always, you know, supporting you in your goals, in your ambitions.

And he is not the person who is giving you, you know, light that, look, I am giving you the light, you just need to follow this. No, it's like facilitating it, you know.

So that's what I have imbibed in me, that my role is to facilitate people. Rest I leave it to them, you know, and I stand by them to understand the procedures and practices, the concepts, and move ahead. So I'm there, I'm there, you go ahead with all confidence.

Sarbjeet, you know, I have this feeling that you are trying to hold back something because I would really want you to come forward and tell us about that inflection point which actually made that real transformation in your life. Come on, let's talk about that.

Uh, okay, you're not going to make me resist here. Fine, right?

Because it's important. Yes, go more deeper and want to learn more about you, Sarbjit, because if we can share our stories, uh, and we can become vulnerable, then only we can inspire someone else to come forward and be vulnerable about them because At the end of the day, if we are not able to acknowledge what we have experienced, um, I think it's a lot holding back and it's a lot of mental block. Then why not come forward and talk about it?

Thank you, Neetu, because I think this is the right time and your podcast is going to convey a message louder to far and wide.

Fine. I started my career as a school teacher and I was given the subject English to teach, which was not my subject at that point of time because I did my graduation in science and my, uh, then my B.Ed. was also in, in science as a specialization. As everybody begins small, so I also started somewhere. And as I mentioned earlier, that I was fortunate enough to start my career with a big corporate, you know, house, institutions, and I cherish that time. I didn't want to end up my life as a school teacher.

And every—

I mean, when the principal, who I'm still in touch with, every time I used to go and speak with him, so please change my subject. I mean, there's so much of work which I have to do. And I don't know, because that was the first career break.

You can understand how If I am so energetic now, which I say, and I always feel proud of it, I was super energetic at that time and no resistance at all to anything which I had to say.

And of course, I used to say it with what I had to, you know, I meant always. And his answer was always one to me that, 'Sarabjit, you're very good with language skills. I don't know, you, of course, you are a science person, and the institution has just started this branch, and I'm sure you will be able to do justice.

Imagine, you know, these souls who are waiting for your inputs. So probably it was a divine intervention, I would say. That's how the path is carved for all of us, fine. I had to become a communication person to, you know, to work towards improving and instilling the right methodology to communicate in the people so that they understand the science as an art both, you know. And this is such a wide subject and it's never going to die. So my existence is not going to die, that is for sure. So the seeds of my existence to be alive all the time, being a working professional, they were sown at that time. So the credit goes to the principal then there. And, um, uh, uh, uh, uh, as I said that I didn't want to end up my life working in schools, so golden 6 years of my life I contributed there. And I did, uh, go ahead for my master's in mass communication and journalism, and I said bye to school teaching from there. So I got a break where I started, uh, you know, uh training the media, you know, students in the media colleges. So I moved from city Hisar to Delhi because we didn't have scope anymore about media in that city, except that I was— I got an opportunity because we had FM regional, you know, radio station opened there. So I was very happy to go and, you know, deliver my programs doing the scripting and also delivering it. Yub Ummang was the program where I had to deliver, fine. But then that was not giving me satisfaction because the, the, the entire 360° personality of mine wanted to soak in the media, fine. So for that reason, I had to relocate myself because Media Hub is in Delhi. So I got a break in the higher education setup And alongside training and teaching journalism and training the, the youth for the newsrooms, because journalism is a very sane profession, and you have to be very careful with your tongue, with your every single word that you write, that you speak, and the critical analysis of every statement which is to, to be written by you.

And what does it mean.

Fine. So that's the kind of effort which it, which it, and the input which that profession, you know, demands. So I was blessed enough to, to, to, you know, work there. So alongside all the head of the departments in that campus, they started approaching the HRD director and my head of the department that we need Sarabjit to train our students and the professional managerial communication is one big, great, skilled subject that initiative nobody else can take care of.

Uh, let— I mean, please spare her.

So I had, I had another calling, you know, uh, from the Divine, and that's where the journey moved on, uh, on the paths where it wanted me to go on. 2005 was the year when I got the first assignment to train cops, Delhi Police.

I was too young at that time to stand in front of such profile people.

As everybody is nervous—

But you did it, right?

But I did it. As everybody is nervous all the time, "Oh, Baba, how are you going to do this? They are police." I mean, itna brash log hai, woh log kaise ho gaya, and their tongue is so rough. Uh, that was the time when cyber crime was cropping up, and, uh, the police department was always looking forward, uh, you know, to have trainings happened for their department personnel, for their workforce, through universities and institutions of repute. Fine. So this was a privilege for me. And, um, uh, uh, it was not only the training in understanding the cybercrime, how to handle it, because communication is the basis to understand cybercrime.

Mm-hmm. Fine.

And not only this, the gender sensitization workshops, uh, which they wanted.

And since I have the media background and, uh, uh, I'm a catalyst, you know, so So when it comes to anything related to women empowerment, and I mean, I don't resist because I, I know the transformation happened in me. The society in which we are living, it's not easy for a female to, to come up to that level and to create her position in the patriarchal setup, because in every organization you will always find men dominating. So how are you going to work surrounding yourself? That was a stage where, you know, it started.

Maybe at that time, but not anymore, it seems.

Not now.

So, but we do find, you know, here or there instances of patriarchy.

I think, I mean, people have moved past that. If not, then maybe, you know, it's just—

it's gradually, it's gradually—

more ancient than the cave age if people have not moved from that.

From, you know, From, you know, our own evolution, you know, from the Darwin's theory of evolution is there. So we as human beings, we have evolved. So we are the most refined living beings. So, so, uh, men are also getting refined now.

Absolutely, and they need to. I mean, come on, we are so empowered now because, uh, nothing holds us back anymore, right? So it's, you know, people say that we have to empower women. We are already empowered.

Empowered beings.

It's just that the men need to understand. I think they've started to understand. If not, I mean, God help them. Anyway, so, you did also mention that there were times that you came across people who were also, you know, depressed and to the point that they were suicidal, and you were able to help them. Would you like to talk more about that and tell our audience how you could help, you know, those people at that time? And they are living a very good healthy life now. So giving a hope like that is something that we would really like to hear more of.

Uh, yes, I would not like to name those people now because they are working, and at that time they were my students in the college.

Uh, they were doing their management studies, fine, and, uh, I was training them. I was also training them, as I told, that I became a shared resource in the whole campus at that time.

I mean, I was—

if I'm right now, that voice is resonating in me. I just came back from my lecture, from my media, you know, classroom. And it was my rest time. And then rest time in the sense I had to prepare for my next session.

So this Particular student, you know, he was waiting for me outside. And he just kept asking me, 'Ma'am, I need your time.

I have been waiting for you for 2 hours. You were not here.

And I really wanted—

I was waiting for you.' And I did check with the peon. He said, 'Ma'am, lectures meh hai aur woh bhi ainge nahi hai, abhi teen lectures ke baad yaange.' I mean, because I know that you go to other campuses also, and then you go for corporate liaisoning also. So I didn't want you to leave me unattended.

So I really did not have time. I had to tell him that I'm very busy and I can't miss another session and I really need to prepare myself.

He said, Ma'am, I beg you for your time.

So I mean, that was the statement which came out of out from him.

And I, my heart started melting. I said, okay, fine, please come. Because I said, no, sir, there is something and I mean, no compromising because there seems to be something wrong. I said, please come inside. So I was blessed to have a separate, you know, workstation for me because there was a lot of work which I had to perform as additional responsibilities given to me. Then, so he said, 'Ma'am, this is what the condition is, and I am— I don't know what to do, but I feel like—' I mean, because he was staying in the hostel.

So you can imagine when the students are staying in the hostel and they have come spending— parents have spent lakhs of rupees, and they are going through emotional turmoil, and they're not able to contribute and participate, you know, to the fullest in the study because management studies are a professional course, fine. And they have to prove because that was a time when the students were taking— parents were taking loans for their management studies. And this guy, I remember, he had left his job, applied for the loan, and then come to do his management studies all the way from I think it was from Darbhanga or Jharkhand, any one of these.

I have heard more cases, Sarbjit, of such, you know, stress, anxiety, and depression cases coming from these like premier institutes because there's probably a lot of pressure on the children. They're not children, of course, they're young adults, but then I see that there has been a lot of pressure. So can you give us a guidance on what exactly do people go through during that time so that we can address this core issue which is like looming large on us right now and probably give some ideas to people on how to handle themselves at that time?

Yeah, very, uh, good question, Neetu, because, um, since my, uh, you know, associations are more with the institutions and I have been working closely with the directors, principals, and close interactions do keep on happening. Even now, fine, even I'm not into the full-time assignment, but my associations, I keep myself busy. And, you know, we do have those discourses, fine. One thing which I have found is the family is not— not every family is that supportive and that understanding in understanding the psyche of their children is is not every family's priority. So what happens, uh, they look for, you know, resourcefulness outside because that resourcefulness is missing in the family setup. Fine.

That's what is the core issue that children are facing at these institutes, Savjit. Let's narrow down on that, that, okay, there is one thing that they're not able to disclose their problems with the family But where is this problem coming from?

Okay, fine. So what happens is, uh, whether we accept this or not, but then at the end of the day, there has to be a placement with all the professional courses, fine? And, uh, the institutions, they have stress on them for the candidates' successful completion of the professional courses, and they get placed. Fine, because they also has— they also have got some accreditations. Fine, uh, and there are certain parameters for those accreditations which are to be fulfilled. Fine, now what happens, there is a stress on these students to perform and to, to successfully complete all the courses. Fine, with certain CGPA. Okay, grading system. Whatever they have. And there is a demarcation then, you know, the placement has to happen. So the first line of placement would be, uh, the, the, the cream is picked up in the campus round of interviews, uh, okay. So the cream, if you are not the cream, of course you're going to struggle, fine. Now if the campus placement does not happen, simultaneously the candidate has to make efforts to to, to prove because he has invested lakhs of rupees, fine. At the end of the day, he also has to start his career and it's a question of his career and the bread and butter, two things, fine. Because we all survive and we need to survive with dignity, fine. If the amount of pressure which is there from the family because the investment of resources has taken place, fine. So he has to prove, he has to achieve that. He has to, you know, get something in his hands. Fine. So there is a stress which is built up. Fine. Now, at the same time, when I am saying this, that, uh, we, we do make an effort that— I find that when I was in the management institutions and media, it was a umbrella, you know, of different, uh, institutions under one umbrella. Uh, what happens, they themselves are, you know, having the, the pressure on them to prove.

So there is always a constant pressure to pressure themselves to the family, to the institute, to the society who would be hiring them, to the society, to the society. As you know, a professional yourself, like you're also a communication coach and a mentor and life coach as well, how can someone who is in the close vicinity of that person help that person to overcome this stress, be that support system at that time? Because honestly, I feel that right now there has been like so many suicides happening post-COVID. People are actually going through the next pandemic, which is like the stress pandemic, right? So how can we ensure that there is enough, you know, vigilance available you know, in those institutes, that somebody would be able to spot those signs and would be able to help them immediately. What is that first line of action that one should, uh, be doing who is spotting those kind of, um, you know, spotting those kind of— what, what should I say— those, uh, cues that there is something that's going on with that person? Fine.

I was visualizing, you know, my, uh, time when I was in the institutions, and I— last assignment also, it got closed. It was into skill training ecosystem with, uh, you know, a large big college under government university. There is no system of, uh, you know, Dean Students Welfare departments need to be in place.

If in case they do not have that, then you remember that schools have got counselors.

We all know that, fine. The time has come where every college need to have, uh, you know, a coach, a life coach, a psychotherapist, you know, who can handle and take care of and is always on a move in the entire premises and is on a job interacting So that, I mean, it's both ways.

You are going to spread the seeds that, look, I'm available for you.

Yeah, yeah.

And that can only happen if that officially, that, that profile is built up.

Fine.

And because, uh, as we say, back to school, when we talk about B-schools, we talk about media schools, we talk about School of Architecture, designing. So it's Back to school. So when it is a back to school system, so back to school system talks about having an exclusive psychotherapist who can handle the adults, who has got the ability and capability and has got all required, you know, uh, professional qualifications, certifications to handle adults, to, to make them empowered as a, as an individual in this society. Fine. So it's more than a, more than a counselor. Role is of more than a counselor, and that visibility of a person would always be there in the premises. Fine. That is important. So they need to do that because if, see, when we have got departments like training and placement department, okay, so they are always worried about training is happening, placement is happening. There are a lot of gaps because I have worked swimming in that, in those oceans, you know, deep in those oceans. So I know now I am able to identify because at that time as an individual I was approachable to my learners.

Yeah, yeah.

Because having a professional, like, official profile would give this message out to everyone that we care about your well-being and, uh, uh, there is a sounding board where you can always come and talk about what you are going through.

Correct, because I remember until now my availability to my people is 24/7. Hmm, great, superb.

I think there's a lot of insight coming from somebody who's worked so exclusively in universities and worked so close with the students over there, because I feel that, you know, even when students today coming out of colleges and trying to look for careers are completely lost about what they really want in life. Correct. They do not inherently know yet who they are, and that is why they are not able to find the right jobs, not happy with the career, which ultimately mess up with every areas of their life, be it their health, be it their relationships, be it their continuous development personally, and of course finances.

Neetu Corporate has been talking a lot and louder also. Conveying the message that, uh, you know, I, I would say all the L&D, you know, functions, they have one thing in common. And I also do the same thing because being an L&D professional— passion. Please connect with your passion. So I am one person who is with the passion, and I converted my passion into profession.

That is the reason.

So because when you are living each day. You're living my life. I mean, I'm living my life.

My passion is being lived every day, right?

So any amount of effort is always less for people then. I mean, as an employee with the organizations, I have come across as an operations person or as a project manager, I remember where my trainers were, were into problem and they had problems with the directors. They had problems with the candidates who were coming to the center and they were not able to handle them and they were getting into depressions. I was thinking, you know, so when I used to take capacity building sessions, uh, being a project manager for all my team members I remember how they used to come up and open up themselves that this is the kind of problem they are facing. And imagine when they silently come separately and they tell me, ma'am, I have to talk to you separately. I said, no problem, I'm available. So they come and tell me, ma'am, the director—

so, director, ma'am, problem.

Now I am a person who has reported to the director, so I cannot go and tell this to the director.

But I am going to guide them, like, look, this is what you need to do. This is—

there's a few changes which you need to do in you, fine? Because, um, toxicity in the environment, in the work culture, if it is there, it is, it is there. My 25+ years of experience is allowing me to tell this. I have also seen the toxicity in the environments, in the culture, in the organizations. and nobody wants to address that because the people who are making the environment toxic, they are, they are very much swimming, you know, in those oceans every day.

Some of them are holding power positions, they are in authority. Nobody can speak about them because the moment you would you would speak up that name, that person any which ways is going to show you the door.

Or would create a problem. That is eating up everyone inside that if I become the whistleblower, then I will be the one who suffers and I will be shown the door. And obviously, Sabjit, because I've been working myself also with a lot of mentees, and I've been coaching, you know, people on their career and clarity and what to do forward. So a lot of decision-making comes from the point of money, is what I have seen, that people are constantly struggling with their finances, with money, and most of the decision-making they do comes from this point, whether this will give me money or not. But then they end up being not happy Despite even getting the money. So I have also handled mentees who have like, who are getting like very good promotions, very good hikes, but still not happy. So what I understand and what I would really want to convey from this podcast is that money as an element cannot be a decision-making factor because you can earn as much and less and as much more, but what you need to do, you need to do. And if you're not doing that, uh, it will, uh, you know, basically create mental blocks and it will hold you back. So money should not be a decision-making factor always. It— the decision-making should come from within, whether I want to do this or I don't want to do this. Then only a person can have a satisfied, fulfilled life, is what my learning has been like. With my 20 years of experience, and this is what I like to share with people also, that whatever you are doing, if you are not working for a purpose, for an impact, and you're not enjoying it yourself, then, you know, whatever money you earn, it is not going to make sense some day or the other. So this is something that really people need to know. And do you have any inputs on that side?

Neetu, you're very correct, because, uh, yes, I know, as, uh, you know, as a business coach, uh, You're sure that a lot of cases which you come across, money anyways will come to us. Okay, that's a reward in return to our services. Fine. Now it is up to us how much, you know, happy we feel inside with that X, Y, or Z figure.

Many a times when you talk about, about, I mean, when I say your passion, you need to see that you are aligned with your passion being a working professional.

If you're not aligned with your passion being a working professional, any amount of money is never going to give you satisfaction because your purpose is money.

You're only waiting by the end of the month that, okay, fine, 30 days of the month completed, so I'll get now a salary of 30 days. In those 30 days, multiplied effects, multi-dimensional approach, Did you have— did you feel that you were connected and that there was a fire always in you? You know, because the passion in you is never letting you sit and rest, uh, always, you know, in the, in the cozy environment. You would always find that I want to be unreasonable. And go out, move out. Okay, so you would never like to sit on the chair, fine? You'll always be on the toes. And I remember my, you know, assignments with large organizations with such large premises and with, you know, different verticals, business verticals they had. I never wanted to sit constantly, you know, in my office there. In my chair. I always wanted to give my bahar niklu, and I want to go to the people, my people, sit besides them, see how they are working, because that's your passion. So money, whether it has come less to me or whether it comes less to anybody else, it will still give you satisfaction. Because at the end of the day, your definition for success, your definition for your own life, what you are meant for the purpose of your life, if it is not yet decided or you are still looking for, fine, you're still lost with so many years of your working professional. That means you will never be satisfied. Even you get a package of 8 lakhs a month, or you get 80,000 a month, or you get, you know, 50,000 a month, fine. So that's something which people will have to think of, that what exactly happiness is. Is money giving them happiness? Of course, money is the fuel of life. We all need money, and that's the reward in return to our services which we, which we, you know, deliver in our role and responsibilities with different organizations with whom we get associated, right?

I hope that would make some understanding.

Yes, yes, totally. And I think there's a lot to learn from to those young people who is watching this podcast that Start young, figure out who you are, where your stresses are coming from, why are you feeling the way you are feeling, because there is something that's going on inside that's really calling out for you to acknowledge that there is something wrong that you are doing. And, uh, just acknowledge it, figure out what it is, ask for help, because people have been there and they have been able to solve this for themselves. So just try to find out those people who have been able to solve this for themselves and get that support rather than suffering in silence forever. So, and, uh, make a better life and do something that would not just help yourself but others as well. So any last thoughts after this, Sarbjeet, that you would like to share with the audience on this note?

Um, okay, two things which I would like to as my last note, Neetu, because, um, I would say this is a great opportunity that you invited me to this podcast, and I would say that it's a divine, you know, blessings for this.

One is, uh, it's very important for all of us, especially when I'm talking about all of us, I mean more towards the New Age entrepreneurs and the New Age employees.

To keep themselves aligned with their passion and not to work with the fear inside.

Because if the fear is inside and every action is based with the fear, every input is going to be a disaster.

It will not bring the desired results.

Because it was done with the fear inside.

I have been a fearless warrior with all conviction when I could speak in my first job in front of the Vice President of Jindal Group of Companies what I had to say. And it was something which entire, you know, team was silent and it was only me who rose up. And when he asked that 'Anybody wants to say anything for this, what we have decided, what we are conveying?' Nobody stood up. I was the only one. Imagine, and I was 26 in my age, first assignment of my life. Management would have thought of throwing me out, but I knew what I was saying is correct. And every team member from that time who is still associated with me, we are still in touch with each other. Many of them just say, "Thank you, Sir Abhijit Ma'am. We thank you for what you said at that time. Had you not, we would not have been enjoying all the luxuries and the status what we are having now. And we really thank you for that." Okay, so that time my tears, you know, they trickle down sometimes, you know. And I feel like, Sarabjit, you have been always a fearless person. Why fearless? Because I am governed by my spirit, and everybody has to work towards building up understanding that intuition. You know, that subconscious part is something which we all need to energize, activate, and work towards building up that, that subconscious of our us. Fine. Uh, last but not the least, yes, um, it is very important for all of us to, to have our own time and space where we sit in silence for some time. We need to silence our mind on daily basis because that would help all of us to towards synchronizing with anything and everything that is associated, surrounded, and connected with us, because we are in the center and everything is surrounding us. Fine. True. Harmony is indeed possible. It is, it is.

Because— and with this podcast, this is the message we want to send across to everyone who's watching that You do not need to live in that kind of stress, anxiety that you feel currently. There are ways to figure out who you are, where is this coming from, and you can overcome this. This is a message for hope that things can change for better.

Yes, Neetu, I'm sure with the new age, you know, problems with which people are— we came across that news recently where he was an IIT-IIM graduate, and he committed suicide. It was very sad. So the message has to go far and wide through your podcast to all organizations, no matter what size of that company, that organization is, but they need to have a system, a department, or maybe a position created where they start employing, you know, a mentor, somebody who is a people's person and is a psychotherapist per se, who understands all these things and has got the power and potential to heal. Yes, all towards healing. Fine. Every organization would like to progress. Progress cannot happen being uni-dimensional.

Totally, totally. And with that, thank you so much, Sarjit, for your inputs. I'm sure the audience has a lot of insights from this, and, uh, I hope with this medium we are able to impact at least one life who has been feeling hopeless, and this might give hope to someone. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much, Neetu. Privilege to be here with you. Thank you so much. Thanks everyone.