Engaging With Your Brand - Andrea Sok - Fractional C-Suite Retreat - Episode # 32

Growing a business is hard, but it does not have to be.

Once a week, we take a break from the hustle and bustle in business to talk about innovations and what's new in the C-suite. This is the Fractional C-Suite Retreat, and I'm Joseph Frost. Pull up a seat at the fire, grab a drink, smoke a cigar, and just join me as we relax, learn, and get inspired. This retreat is sponsored by Your CMO, helping organizations grow with better marketing strategy.

Hello.

Today's guest is a highly skilled strategic communicator. She helps brands come to life through storytelling. Over 15 years of experience in marketing and communication, and is founder and principal chief storyteller, marketer, and PR maven at SOC Influencer PR. Welcome, Andrea. How are you?

I'm great. How are you? Thanks for having me.

Yeah, I'm so excited to have you today. So let's get right to the, the main question, which is, can you share with me something that you see in the C-suite today that maybe other C-suite members aren't thinking about or aren't seeing from your perspective?

I think the main thing is that everything is so interconnected now. So marketers really need to look across all areas. You're not just focused on, you know, paid digital anymore or even print advertising. You really need to look at the customer experience. You're looking at, at from point A to point B. So they need to be versed in everything and also kind of insert themselves in a lot of different conversations, which can be uncomfortable. But if you're not in the know, then something, a great opportunity could really pass by.

And how should, like, how should the C-suite members get in the know? I read recently that people just aren't talking to their customers enough. Is that, is that the way or are there other—

A big part of it, listening, social listening, even just serving with customers. I was on with a client just before this and we were looking at email metrics. We had great open rates, great click-through rates, but they weren't taking the action. And this is an audience that my customers is very close to. And I said, why don't you just pull a few names out of this hat and give them a call? Find out what's going on. I mean, you know these folks better than anyone else. They'll take your call. Find out what, what's the problem? What's the breakdown? And also I think social listening is a big piece of it. There's obviously technology that you can use to do that, but really just taking time to look at what people are reacting to, what they're commenting on, make sure that you're engaged and that it's a two-way conversation. It's not I was always talking to somebody.

And isn't that what the marketer's supposed to do, or is the rest of the, uh, C-suite supposed to do that from time to time?

Yeah, I think a lot of times, yes, it, it definitely falls in the marketing wheelhouse, but having the C-suite, different members of the C-suite, especially the founders. If I work with a lot of startups, so having the founders really engaged because it's really their brand, you know, they're really behind it. So having them engage with customers, sitting in on client calls, meeting with folks, reading reviews, looking at the metrics, having them really engage to understand what's going on. And, you know, other, other areas as well. But everyone should really be putting the customer first. So let's look at what they're engaged with, what they're commenting on, where they're dropping off, maybe in the funnel. And see if we can dive into that.

Have you seen in your work a big change in the customer over the last couple of years?

I mean, the attention span, I feel like gets shorter and shorter by the day. So, so the, the— it is necessary to repeat messages a lot. And I have— I work with, again, a lot of startups and founders who are apprehensive. Well, we just talked about that and it really doesn't matter. We need to keep talking about it because this is one of your core messages. This is something that customer needs to know and they probably missed it the first 3 times that we talked about it. So attention span is short. So repeating ourselves and a big piece of what we do is storytelling. So we first look at what is the story that we want to tell and then what are the vehicles to deliver that story. So you may have been using one particular vehicle to deliver the story and maybe that's not working anymore. Coming out of the pandemic, people are are thinking about things differently. They have a different comfort level with things. So maybe you need to adjust what that voice is or who that voice is.

Do you have a top-of-mind example of that? That's a very interesting concept about selling the story differently with a different vehicle. It's the same story, but you're just trying to figure out a different way to tell it, or maybe not a different way, but a different channel or different approach.

Different megaphone.

Yeah.

Yeah. So we start, we start with the story. So what are the messages? It's not necessarily just one message. It could be multiple messages, obviously, whether you're selling a product or a service or you're an NGO and you're mission-driven. So what are those master messages and then testing them on different, with different voices. So influencers is a big one that we're using a lot and, and in non-traditional spaces. So I use influencers. With NGOs, all my fintech clients. And that's a vehicle that people get shy about because they think it's one area and it's this big massive industry and they don't know how to break in. But really finding a few key people that can carry your message authentically, they've either tried your product, they use your service, or they believe in your mission and getting them to talk about it in their own voice has been a huge game changer for a lot of clients. I'm working with 3 fintechs right now that were engaging influencers to help reach some really niche audiences to talk about some specific products. And then, you know, journalism and PR, that has shifted a lot over the last— I mean, it's constantly shifting in the last few years, especially journalists bounce from job to job. They're constantly job hopping. So you're not going to get somebody who's been at an outlet for 30 years anymore, but just unheard of. So keeping a pulse on who, who is where, and again, what are those voices and all journalists, not all, but most journalists these days are also influencers in themselves. So they write for publication, but they also have massive Twitter followings. They're coming to events. So you want to make sure that we're, we're leveraging them as well as a great voice. And then your employees, I think that's another big one. We just did, a client did a product launch last Thursday and we've spent a lot of time on the employee messaging. What is, what are our employees, what do we want them to say? What can we equip them with to tell that story authentically and share it with their audience? And we saw great engagement on the employee posts and we actually, they, we set aside a time of day where the employees did nothing but talk about the launch. And so it was blocked off on everyone's calendar. They had all the messaging. So folks were LinkedIn, Twitter, again, talking to their friends and family and their following about the company launch.

How did you do that without it becoming like feeling forced or fake?

Oh, I think one is a startup. So there's, there's this inherent investment that everyone is, you know, built this product from the ground up. So they're very it's very much internal to them and they're very passionate and proud of, proud of it. But nothing out of their own comfort zone. I mean, people ask for the messaging, you know, so what should I say? Or I want to make this sound good. So we provide them with email templates and social posts, but they can change it and alter it to put it in their voice and do what's comfortable to them. And obviously some people are way more comfortable online than others. But everyone was really engaged and they wanted to do it.

Yeah, that's really interesting. I never thought through that tactic, but it seems to be an easy, low-hanging fruit to leverage your own employees to get some of that messaging out. Absolutely.

And they could be your best brand ambassadors.

Yeah. I found it interesting. You said that journalists these days are also influencers, and I'd never thought about that, but that also is totally true. I mean, they all have their own Twitter accounts and we know many of the journalists by their name, not by the companies that they work for or write for. So how are you able to leverage that when you pitch them a story or get them to publish or write, you know, about you and your company? You just ask them.

Again, I think it's about relationship building. So, I mean, it doesn't happen overnight. Um, but following somebody really on their journey, you can talk about when they wrote for, you know, I love this piece that you did for XYZ, and then I love this piece that you did, you know, for, it doesn't matter who it's for, it's about them and their work. Uh, following them, definitely, if you're not already following some key folks in your area, in your industry, you should be following them as well on Twitter, commenting, sharing their, their stories. And what can you offer? It's always the what's in it for me. What can you offer them that will help them do their job better? So are you putting together case studies? Do you have some unique data that you can share? What, what, you know, are they going to a conference and you could put them in touch with an expert or somebody who specializes in that area? Can you bring them in? We hosted a virtual press conference for a client and we had a big announcement. So everyone that was invited to that virtual press conference heard the news firsthand, had one-on-one interview time with the subject, and were able to walk out of there or walk virtually walk out of there and file a story. So we gave them everything that they had in an hour timeframe to equip them to write a story and something that was newsworthy that was, you know, we held out just for those exclusive group of 20 or so folks. So really, yeah, building the relationships is a huge part of it. Usually when journalists bounce from publication to publication, they're still in the same sector, same industry, they're writing for somebody different. So really just keeping track of what they like, you know, within You know, tech, are they really interested in new products? Are they really interested in AI? You know, what is their kind of jam and making sure that you are offering something that they're really interested in.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So they'll show up to a virtual, uh, press conference.

Yeah, more so. I, I don't know that I've done an in-person press conference in, I don't know how many years. So yeah, virtual press conference. So you dial in just like you dial into Zoom. It's in— we'd— the one that we hosted was invitation only, so wasn't open to everyone. You were getting that news firsthand with, you know, 10 of your other competitors. But also one-on-one interview time with somebody who's kind of hard to get. So it works out really well. I've done those too with when we do new, you know, new data reports. If we have a big bulk of data, we could send the report in advance and journalists can come and ask questions.

I love it. That's a simple tool. I mean, the pandemic changed the way we do business in so many different ways, but then continue to peel back the onion to little ways like that where now we're doing virtual press conferences that would have been unheard of just a couple of years ago.

Yeah. I mean, really virtual, you know, we do, we'll do virtual onboarding for influencers where You know, something like that. I would've, I mean, back in the day I would fly to meet a, you know, a celebrity or influencer to onboard them to a company. And now you do all that via Zoom. So it saves a lot, you know, it makes it easier for people to get involved.

Are you feeling that shifting back a little bit the other way? Like pendulum was going because we were all virtual and you feel it coming back a little bit or I definitely feel, yeah, clients are more definitely open to—

we're talking about events, and we've— I've worked several events in this last, you know, since the start of 2022, or we've done in-person events, either conference style or, you know, actual ribbon-cutting type events. I'm doing a grand reopening in a couple of weeks. So, you know, It's changed the way that we are having the in-person element. But if I had done a grand reopening before the pandemic, would I have looked at all these other factors? Probably not. So we're doing a grand reopening, but we're also having an online virtual grand reopening. So all the customers who are not in the area can participate. They can take advantage, they can enter the raffles, they can have the discounts. We're inviting local influencers, but we're also asking influencers who are not in the area to share the message. You know, so it's, it's definitely changed the way that we look at things. But I think some people, they'll be at this hybrid. Will we ever go back to not having a virtual option? I don't, I don't see a world where we would leave that behind.

Yeah, I can't see it being left behind completely. I was just having this conversation the other day with somebody about that. Can you imagine pre-pandemic saying, yeah, let's just hop on a Zoom call, a video call for this press conference instead of getting it. Like, it's not even, it's out of the complete thought realm.

Remember you used to do conference calls and you didn't see the person and then you're like pressing the button. You're, are you there?

I mean, some of the technology was there.

Yeah.

It worked, but just didn't even feel like you could even suggest it without—

I mean, I don't think we did. We would do like Skype or things like that with international because that was the way that we could connect in an affordable manner, was to use a Skype or some type of virtual technology like that. But everyone else, I mean, it was the conference. We're all gathered around the conference and you're dialing in and you always feel bad for the person on the other end because they can't see all the people in the room and what's going on, who's making faces. But yeah, it's totally changed. I don't, I mean, I do phone calls now, but I can't remember the last time I did a, where it was more than 2 people and we weren't all looking at each other.

Right. One of the other things that I've been asking a lot of guests about is leadership. And I've been studying through these podcasts what leadership is, and I'm curious How would you define the role of a leader inside of an organization?

I think the best leaders that I've worked with, I don't think I know, they are motivating. They're the cheerleader. They're encouraging, but they're also decisive. They're making the business decisions. They're bringing people in. They're communicative. So they're not living in a shadow or living on some high horse. They're definitely sharing information with their teams. And also receiving information. I think good leaders listen. The amazing founders that I work with now, they all lead, you know, small to large teams. And again, in this virtual environment, not everyone's in the same location. So it's challenging and they're juggling a lot of hats. You know, they're fundraising, they're making their products, they're listening to customers. So they're wearing a lot of different hats. But they always listen and they always receive feedback. They're very organized and they're decisive. I really appreciate when someone comes in and I give them options and they make a decision.

Yeah. So let's unpack that.

That's very—

there was clarity there. So motivation, decisiveness, communication, and that's kind of an umbrella topic. I'm curious, how has the motivation factor changed with the new realities of remote work and virtual work and even fractional work? How are leaders changing or evolving to address motivation of their team members in this new environment? Have you seen anything?

I mean, employees have a lot of options these days. So it is, they can, jump ship in a heartbeat, go somewhere else. There's not a shortage of open positions, or, you know, they run the freelance route or the contract route. So it is challenging for leaders to keep employees or keep good employees. And, you know, there's a plethora of benefits, but I feel like at the end of the day, it's the same type of package. I mean, how many free sodas do you need? How many, you know, dog insurance do you need? I mean, they're all one half dozen of the other. I think it really starts with the leader. And I can, I could hands down tell you all the employees that I, you know, have interaction with, they would tell you, I'm here for fill the name of their CEO. You know, that person inspires me. I love what they're doing. I love the work that they're doing. I love being a part of it. So being, feeling That feeling of inclusivity is part of this movement. Having a say, having a forum for them to share their ideas and really listening and being heard is a big piece of it. And then that flexibility, having, you know, not just the remote work versus coming into an office, but the life flexibility of I need to take care of an elderly parent or I need to do this and people really listening and understanding and saying, yes, your job's going to be here and we're here because we're a team. So, and making them really list, again, going back to that listening is a big piece of it, the flexibility and communication.

What I heard you say, which is interesting, is that in talking to a lot of employees, they're there because of their leader, their CEO, their, that's what's keeping, or, you know, that's what's motivating, inspiring them. Is there an aspect of natural storytelling? You're a storyteller, you're a messaging person that is inherent. Maybe it's not natural, but is there, is there an aspect of that that is able to have that leader be able to inspire and motivate their team? Is that a piece of the puzzle?

Definitely a piece of the puzzle. I've worked with some folks who are awkward leaders. They're amazing. They're incredibly smart, but they're awkward to be around. They don't have that instant personal connection with, with folks. And they have to work at it. And I've worked with some great media trainers, you know, spokes— spokesperson trainers where they, they help them kind of get out of that shell and become more personable and really work to make those mannerisms and make people feel comfortable. And work on active listening. Because again, CEOs naturally love to talk and love to share their message, but if they're not listening, then that's a turnoff for people and they can, people see through that right away. And some people are just not self-aware. So working with a, a coach or a trainer, I've also worked with, you know, more solopreneurs or authors. I, I see this a lot with authors where they're amazing writers and they have fantastic works, But when it comes to me putting them on a publicity tour or putting their marketing together, they are immediately deer in headlights. They don't know what to do or what to say. And you know, that seems unusual because they can write for days, but when they are in the room with people, they kind of freeze up. So those are things that we work on is how to have meaningful conversations, how to be comfortable, how to project authority, but not in a scary way. But yeah, not every leader is a natural people person or natural, just not everything is natural to them. They may be incredibly smart and great at what they do, but they're not skilled at working with people. And I think that's where the best ones are self-aware and they know that's a challenge for them. So they seek out professionals to help. The others might struggle, or a lot of times you'll see a second in command that kind of fills that role.

Yeah, exactly. And the new realities of working remotely and working over Zoom with people that might be hybrid or freelance, I think it sets up a whole nother level of challenges for the natural leader who's great in a room full of people or office full of people because they have to learn this technology and then they have to figure out, well, how can we leverage this technology to better communicate, to better listen? Because most of this technology is almost one way. I mean, it's hard to talk over somebody on Zoom, right? It's really difficult. So how have you seen people approaching that from a leadership standpoint, embracing technology and being able to leverage it for better communication or better leadership?

I think one of the things that I see is What can we automate and what needs to have that personal touch? And we'll look, I just did this walkthrough, this with a client. We were looking at our, um, basically our email communication, automating as much as we can, but for new clients, really having that personal touch and having that first communication come from the founder. Um, the founder also writes handwritten notes, which I love. I'm a big fan of letter writing, note writing., and I love that she takes the time to do that. But writing handwritten notes, um, to welcome people to the program, which is just something that a lot of people don't do, but opening up that forum, um, and giving people different options to, to communicate. So somebody may not be comfortable in a Zoom with 10 people to share concerns or share the way that they feel or to share their story. And so maybe it's a one-on-one, or maybe it's through another form where you're capturing somebody's story from a form. So it's less personal, but it's more private. So giving people different options is what I've seen as successful. And then there are people who prefer to do things in person. So you'll see certain people, you know, Susie Smith comes into the office every day because that's what she likes and that's what she is accustomed to. So leaders have to wear a lot of different hats now because now you've opened up this world. And so certain people are used to or are more comfortable with different methods. So they're, they're sharing their story and they're communicating across different channels. And unfortunately, you just got to wear many hats, but giving people the opportunity to do what's most comfortable and share in the environment that's most comfortable for them.

Yeah, that's a great way to— it's still not for everybody to be virtual or hybrid or Zoom and understanding that it's even more complex than it used to be to segregate. These people want— I need to lead this way or react this way and these other people, it's a whole different tactic and it makes that leadership challenge even greater.

Natalie, sorry, the other thing I would say is the, again, self-aware or humility even to recognize that you don't have all the answers and you make mistakes and you're going to learn from those and move on. If you set things as black and white, then when people fall through the cracks, they're just going to feel unheard. So being open about This is what we're going to do. This is, you know, our way moving forward, but that could change and I'm open to change. So having that self-awareness to, to be open to that.

Yeah, I love that for sure. Well, let's shift gears one more time. Tell me a little about yourself. What's, what's your story?

So you teed off at the top. I am a storyteller. I always start everything with You know, what is the mess? What is the message? What is the story that we're trying to tell? I started back in the day, I wanted to be a journalist. I thought I was going to, you know, be the next Bernstein and Woodward and I was going to break all these amazing stories. And I realized that not every journalism job is like that. So I quickly changed to PR and started telling other people's stories. And I found that was a better suit, better fit for me. Worked in the NGO sector for many years, which is the most amazing place to tell stories. You get to tell the story of the NGO, the story of the people that you help, the story of the, the people that support the NGO. So there's just a plethora of things that you can pull from. So started in PR there and then moved to marketing later in my career and really launched this firm because I had worked in so many organizations where I was either in PR or communications or I was in marketing, and those two areas didn't really work together, or we did our jobs, we had different goals, different perspectives. And I kept seeing opportunities where we really should be sharing the story in different areas and having different voices tell the same story. And so I started this firm to really live at, at the intersection of PR and influencer marketing where It's the basis of the story, and then let's find the right voice to tell it. And we do a lot of fractional CMO work for, again, a lot of fintech clients, fintech startups, green design. So a lot of different areas, but everything starts with the story. We always start with a message and what are we gonna— what are we trying to— what are we trying to say? And then who's gonna say it? And that might change after We put the message out there and we find, you know, people are responding or they're not responding. So we might change that or we might direct course. So we have a small team. I based— I'm based in Washington, D.C., but again, we're all virtual. So we have a small team all over the country, which is great. And my really my philosophy is I like to work with clients that I enjoy. So I like to work with people that make me laugh, make me smile, that I'm proud to be a part of their organization. And I believe in what they're doing. So I don't necessarily stay in one industry. It really depends on the client and what, what they're trying to accomplish and if I feel like I can help them.

That's great. What do you like to do outside of work?

Outside of work? Well, I love anything on the water, so I love kayaking. I'm not really in the area for surfing, but when I can get away, surfing, swimming, stand-up paddleboarding. Anything in the water, pool or ocean, it doesn't matter, or river. And also I have two small kids, so they keep me very busy doing lots of activities.

Yeah, they have a way to keep you very busy.

Yes.

So where, where have you surfed?

In Costa Rica and very little bit in Hawaii. Hawaii is very intimidating for a novice surfer, but mainly Costa Rica. We took my— for beginner, beginning surfing.

Yeah, good. We took my 4 kids, adult, well, I mean, high school, college kids 2 years ago to San Diego and they went surfing for 3 days with a surf school. So they got to go out there and learn how to surf and then we'd come and watch them at the end of the day surfing. And they were the oldest 4 of the, the groups. There's a lot of younger kids in there. It looked really hard.

People say that. I mean, I, if you, if you've ever done yoga, I feel like you can do surfing because it's the same positions. It's really just the balance. But the benefit of working with a surf school, and I do enjoy that, is they're great about choosing the waves. I feel like that is the hardest part is Should I go for this wave? Should I let this wave— is this too big for me? But the surf instructor will point it out for you. Like, this is yours, go. But the actual movement is really easy. I mean, it's just basic yoga moves on a board.

Okay. Well, I've done yoga and I'm going to Costa Rica with my family next week. So my son, are you going to do surfing? Because we don't have surf school planned. He's like, yeah, I'm going to surf every day I can. Do you think I could do it with you? He's like, oh yeah, you can do it, Dad. So I'm going to try, I'm going to get out on a surfboard and see what I, what I can come up with.

Yeah.

Hopefully not hurt myself.

You'll love it. You'll love it. The water is perfect there. There's no sharks, knock on wood, in the immediate area. And, um, it's good because the, at least where I was, there's never enormous waves. So you never feel like you're going to, you know, really bomb. You probably, you'll fall off lots of times, but that's fine. That's part of it.

And it'll be a little warmer than San Diego. They were in wetsuits. Oh, yeah. A little bit cold. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So the kids, what do they do for fun? Or what? Not to get too specific, but what do you like doing with the kids besides watching movies in the basement?

They— well, they also love water, so we go to the pool a lot. They love— they're not the strongest swimmers, but they love being in the water. Um, anything outside today, I don't know where they came up with it, but they decided they were going to save the planet. So they left the house while I was on calls and started picking up trash and telling me different ways that I could save the planet as well. So they must have gotten that somewhere. They probably saw something online or watched some video about Earth Day or something. Um, so they're very—

some good PR person put a message out there that they got.

Yes. Um, but love being outside riding bikes. Uh, they're 6 and 8, so, um, they're pretty close in age where we try to drag them along to do the same things, which they don't always love, but, um, anything outside, uh, and anything active. Good.

Um, so where did you, uh, where'd you say you went to school?

I went to Arizona State.

Arizona State.

Yep. Sun Devils.

Sun Devil. Okay. Is that right there at Phoenix or is it further south?

So I went to multiple campuses. I actually have 3 degrees from Arizona State.

Oh, please tell.

I did, I did my undergrad experience. Yeah, I did my undergrad, um, at the main campus, which is in Tempe, uh, which is, they have a ginormous, I mean, it's even way bigger than when I went there. Um, so I have, uh, my undergrad is in broadcasting. I have another undergrad degree in history. And those I both did at the Tempe campus. And then for my master's, I went to the Phoenix campus, which actually now they've moved the J-school to the Phoenix campus. So that's kind of their media hub. I mean, they have— when I went to J-school there, we did a pro— we did a weekly newscast. They have multiple times a day. They have an office here in D.C. I mean, they're all over the place. They're amazing. So It's a, it's a great, it's a great program and it's just grown even more. But yeah, I was at, I was at both campuses and they also have a campus in Mesa. I mean, they're everywhere.

How did you end up working a history degree and all of that?

I, so interestingly enough, I went to, I had the intention of being a journalist. I went to broadcasting school and then I broadcasting school again, it was great. A lot of it is there's not a lot of homework there, so you're doing, you know, your live shots, your. Writing stories, but you're doing that all on your, you know, on your school time. It's not like you're going home and then researching a paper about news. So I found a lot of, I had a lot of free time, so I started taking these other courses. And when I got to, I think my third year, my advisor was like, you know, if you just did a few more credit hours, you'll actually have enough for another bachelor's. So I ended up taking another, you know, another, I think I did like another half semester. And did my bachelor's in history as well. So my focus was American history, post-Civil War. And then I also studied— you had to pick two areas. I also studied Japanese history after they were opened up.

That makes sense. I almost got an additional degree in mathematics because I got a chemical engineering degree and I was 2 classes away from getting another bachelor's in mathematics. And I looked at it and I said, I'm going to do this. And by the time I got through like my 5th math class, I had 2 more to go. I'm just done. That's way too much math work. We're beyond letter math. We're into like symbols. And now we're beyond that into like out of the world kind of thing that you've never seen before that they're trying to make sense of.

Yeah. No. Yeah, I would, I would've run for the hills. I think I did 2 math classes. Math was not a required course in broadcast. No, not at all. I think I did whatever the basic one was, was probably just like a repeat of high school.

So did you ever travel to Japan? If you studied there?

I did actually for, when I was work working for the USO, I went to Japan, went to Okinawa. It was beautiful. And Tokyo as well, but I spent most of the time in Okinawa. I didn't get to see a lot of history while I was there because I was there for work.

I had a—

we had a celebrity coming over to do an event, so I was working with her, but it was beautiful and I really enjoyed it.

I would love to go there. I've got a creative person, actually, I taught math for one semester. To the creative school because I wanted to like see if I was a good professor because I had been teaching entrepreneurship, marketing. I'm like, I'm going to go teach math because I saw a LinkedIn ad come across and that was like the only degree you need to have. So there's— imagine 30 creative students that are getting their bachelor's in art, like not science, but in art. And they have to have this like one course.

They have to take a math. You're standing in the way of their dreams.

Yes. And it was so fun. I taught the class and I just realized after the first day that this was not going to go well if I taught a math class. So what we started to do is do a poster about a famous mathematician and put stats up there and learn about it and then share that with the class. So we come up with some really creative ways to work in design into the class. But anyway, my star student, Ended up coming to work for me as a freelancer and she's worked for me for the last like 6 years. And she loves Japan and she would go there and she'd tell me the stories and she had her wedding planned in Japan last year and they had to cancel it. First they postponed it and then another year went by and then they had to cancel it. And so they're getting married in Colorado next month. But that was her big dream to get married in Japan. I guess it's a beautiful place.

Yeah, it is gorgeous, and the people are so nice, and it's so clean. Um, but I— yeah, I really enjoyed it. I would love to go back.

Where else have you traveled that you love?

Uh, Thailand. We went— my husband and I went to Thailand. That was a personal trip. That was very fun. We went to Thailand, Bangkok and Phuket. Um, beautiful. I did not get to surf there though. I was— that was on my list, and my husband is not a surfer and was not enthused with doing anything surfing or being— and we were not like on the right part of Thailand to really hit any waves. So we did not do it. I was disappointed. Next time. But beautiful. We had a great time. Gosh, I mean, I've been to so many great places in the US, all over. Vancouver, I thought, was really beautiful. I would love to go back to Vancouver. Yeah, both coasts of the US. I've been, uh, work has sent me to some amazing places. I mean, I've been to Afghanistan, um, I've been to, um, uh, Haiti, some different ends of the spectrum, um, and being there for work, working with the UN, it's different perspective than if you're there for pleasure. Um, so some really great Everywhere that I've loved, I've been all over Italy. I love Italy. I think my favorite place to visit, probably because of the people that worked in the office when I was at the USO, but I used to love to go to Germany and I would go there a lot. I worked with the USO Europe team over there and that their headquarters was in Landstuhl and I would go to Germany a lot and just loved Germany. I think again, it's beautiful, so much history, architecture, food. People are very friendly. My German is horrible, but they all were very patient and also very clean, you know, just a great place to travel around.

What was Afghanistan like?

Afghanistan was interesting. I mean, I was there in the middle of OEF/OIF, so I mean, we were, we weren't, it's not like we were traveling around the country of our own fruition. I mean, we were with, we were with military personnel the whole time. Um, the country is very beautiful. I mean, we were in the mountain— we were in, um, we were in the mountainous region, so, right, Kandahar and Bagram. So, um, and I was there in the fall. It was very cold, um, but beautiful, very beautiful, uh, just vast mountains. Um, but really we didn't have much interaction with folks outside of U.S. military. Uh, because we were just— that's not— that was not a safe— that would not have been a safe way for us to conduct business. So we were always with translators or with Afghan translators and military. We were never unattended.

Yeah, it'd be interesting to be in a position where you were in the— able to interact with the people and get a sense for their culture, who they were, but you didn't have that chance.

No, I mean, we— we— they have, um, they would have several Afghan, local Afghans that would come and work at the base. So they had the paperwork to come in and off the base freely. And they would work in our center. So I would, you know, be able to converse with them. Their English was great. And they had families and, you know, living. This was a job opportunity for them. So this was, you know, they were living their life. I think it would be interesting. So they've since shut down those military installations. It'd be interesting to go back now and see how the community is without that presence there. But no, we weren't— we were not able to walk around like the community or anything.

Yeah. My parents, after my brother and I went to college, decided to go teach abroad. They were both school teachers and they ended up teaching in Lahore, Pakistan. And so they were there for 5 years and they said it was a wonderful experience. The people were amazing. Culture was terrific. It just— and then they used that opportunity to kind of tour the world and that area of the world. But they were also there on 9/11, so they had to be evacuated fast. It got, you know, kind of got crazy over there after that. But they always tell the stories with people and how similar people are in all parts of the world that they visited. Very friendly, about family, everybody's not as radicalized as you might see on TV. Yeah. So has that been your experience as well?

Oh, yes, definitely. I mean, every culture has, you know, once you understand why we're doing something, a lot of times they'll drop you in the middle of a ceremony or something's happening. And if we haven't been briefed beforehand, you know, you don't know what's going on. And so it's foreign to you because you don't— you've never experienced it before. But once you understand what's going on, and you're able to communicate with somebody, you get, you know, the same sense that they're proud of their culture and they're family-oriented and they're excited. I think that's the other thing is that they're very excited to— for people to— everywhere that I've been, they're very excited to kind of show off their culture and welcome you and tell you all about what they do. And so I love to listen as much as I can. Sometimes it is hard to I remember when we were in Haiti, we were working through a translator who, she spoke the local dialect. I understand French a little bit, so we were like, you know, a third way communication, like translated 3 different ways. So it was a, it was hard and you want to be able to be responsive to somebody and react when they're talking. She was sharing a very personal story about her daughter. And my reaction is obviously delayed because I'm getting it thirdhand. That's always challenging, but I love— the best part about any visits is when you go off the diplomatic tour and you actually get to meet with families and hear their stories. Again, everything goes back to storytelling. When we were in Haiti, I recorded everything. We had it all translated later. It wasn't obvious like I'm going to put a recorder in your face, It was, it's on, it's in my pocket. Let's have a conversation and just tell me. And I asked her questions about her daughter, about her family and what was she doing? She was making dinner. Like, what, tell me what you're doing. Let's, let's, you know, so the storytelling I think is the best part. I always would come back from any of these trips and have all these stories that I love to share and some of them we get to tell, some of them we obviously can't tell, but that's the best part is listening. To people's stories and being able to share them.

Yeah, that's great. In the NGO space, as you know, as you mentioned earlier, I should say, that the stories are always just so touching and personal and real relative to some of the business stories that we get to be part of and share here. But inside of business, everybody's got a story, right? Every employee and the moral leader can can listen and learn and engage with people on their story level, I think the better leaders they are as well.

And share their story. I can't tell you how many founders or CEOs that I talk to and I have to drag it out of them and I'm like, that's super interesting. I didn't know that. You know, you met your co-founder at your daughter's preschool and you guys, you know, were having drinks one night and that's how you came up with like, that's an interesting story. Let's tell that story. Um, so, you know, or you, you were just talking about you met your employee at your, at your math class.

Yeah.

And that's a story I would love to tell. So a lot of times founders and CEOs, they think that they're just, they're just not interesting people. I don't know who they think is interesting, but I said, you know, those stories are people that they want, they wanna hear. Your employees wanna hear it. Your customers wanna hear it. It personalizes your company and it brings you closer to them and them closer to you. So let's tell those stories. Um, so a big part of it is, is interview. I do a lot of interviewing. So I do put my reporter hat on and I interview them and I ask them these questions and I try to dig deeper and find out, you know, how they came here and what their motivations are and what their story is and what their family's like. Um, so that we can kind of uncover those gems.

Yeah. And we know that because we're in the business, but people respond to authentic stories more than anything that marketing made up. So the more real, the more authentic it is, the person, more personal it is, it's going to have a much better outcome and more effectiveness than, oh, this is a really cool tagline. Let's make up a story about this. And it doesn't work as well.

No, it never works as well. I mean, it's necessary, but The personal connection is, is really what ties somebody to a brand and also gives them that longevity. They might buy your product because they saw a tagline and saw, you know, some data or stat that, you know, caught your eye, but they stay with the brand because they, they feel that connection to you. And sometimes the brand story is the founder story. Sometimes they're separate, but some, you know, a lot of times they are, especially in the startup world, they're very closely tied. So we wanna tell that story and the employees too.

So tell me one more interesting story about you.

Interesting story about me?

Anything?

Anything. Well, let's see. This is where I always— where we go around the room, they're like, share a fun fact. And I'm like, I don't know that I have a fun fact. I always go with, I have two kids. I don't know if that's fun. Um, let's see. I would say an interesting story.

Um, or if you want, I can interview and say, all right, tell me the biggest challenge you faced in the last 10 years.

I would say a challenge, but also a blessing was launching this business. It, it was easier than I thought once I did it. But to take that jump, I, you know, I've always worked for somebody. I've had great, amazing, I've had an amazing career. I've worked for some amazing organizations. I have had great experiences. I have a huge network of, of peers and that I call friends now, having met them through employers. But taking that leap to go out on my own, not in the middle of a pandemic, it, it was very scary. But then once I did it, I was so like, why did I wait so long? This was, you know, the best thing I ever did. It was the best thing for my family and the best thing for me professionally. And I had one voice in my— actually, my health coach was the one that told me, why are you waiting so long? Just do this. And she made me set a date and I did. I, I launched by that date and I'm so glad she pushed me. But once I took the jump, it was I was, I was fine.

Oh, that's awesome. And then what would be a follow-up question? What would be the biggest opportunity you want to pursue in the next 10 years?

I want to, I mean, obviously I want to grow. Everyone wants to grow. I want to really develop some, some great long-term relationships and I'd like to really expand To, to, how do I say this? I want to continue to grow my team. And this always sounds, I say I pick my clients by people that I like. I also pick my team by people that I like. And I always said one of my goals is I want to work with my friends. And so I want to bring on more of my, you know, my former colleagues that are now friends and really expand because I have an amazing group of folks that I call the experts, and I do go to them for advice, but I really like to bring them on and just really grow. And we just would have some kick-ass ideas and take over the world.

That's great. Well, thanks for sharing your story, Andrea. It's been terrific. Thank you very much for being here today.

Well, thank you. It was a pleasure. I'm so glad that we got to connect. Thank you for having me on, and I'm glad that I could talk about my favorite thing, storytelling.

Well, you did an amazing job, and thank you for our listeners, and I'm excited to share this story of Andrea with you, and we'll share the next story with somebody else on the next episode. So thanks for listening.

And that's a wrap. There's another successful episode of the Fractional C-Suite Retreat. See our show notes and more episodes at fractionalcsuitretreat.com. This podcast is sponsored by Your CMO, helping organizations grow, save time and money with better marketing strategy and fractional execution. Visit them at yourcmo.com. Yourcmo.com. Spelled wrong on purpose.