Scaling Success: Strategic Marketing and Team Synergy - Jason Parker and Dave Blanchard- Fractional C-Suite Retreat - Episode #60

Growing a business is hard, but it does not have to be.

Once a week, we take a break from the hustle and bustle in business to talk about innovations and what's new in the C-suite. This is the Fractional C-Suite Retreat, and I'm Joseph Frost. Pull up a seat at the fire, grab a drink, smoke a cigar, and just join me as we relax, learn, and get inspired. This retreat is sponsored by Your CMO, helping organizations grow with better marketing strategy. Welcome.

I'm excited to have two guests today on my show. It's rare that we get to get two different people chiming in on the same subject, so I'm excited to welcome one person who is co-founder and chief executive officer of Canine Franchising. He is a franchisor. He's also the chairman of the board of Canine Holdings. He and his brother founded Canine Resorts in in 2020, and we're gonna talk about some of the experiences they've had with their fractional CMO engagement with our other guest, who is one of our fractional CMOs. His superpower is strategic insights. With over 30 years of marketing experience, he has an ability to find that missing piece that when put in place makes a big difference. He's been working with K9 since 2021. So with that, I welcome Jason Parker, with K9 Franchising and Dave Blanchard with YourSumo. Welcome.

Thank you. Thanks for having us.

Thanks, Joe.

Yeah, this will be exciting. So we're, we're gonna dive right into it, Jason, with a question. As a, as a franchisor, founder, co-founder, what would you say is one thing that is really important to you, uh, that you think other C-suite professionals should be thinking about today?

I think you have to really surround yourself with the right people. That's important, I think, to grow and scale any business. My personal opinion is that, you know, founders, as brilliant as some of them, you know, are, they don't know everything about everything, right? And it's, it's really important to be able to, you know, find others who you can surround yourself with so that you can strengthen what you can bring to the table and help grow the business.

Yeah, that is, that is so important. And it's probably one of the reasons why we're talking today is as you were looking to surround yourself with people, the fractional CMO role seemed like an interesting way to do that. We'll dive into that a little bit. Dave, I might ask you the same question. You know, as a C-suite leader in your own right, what's one of the things that you think is very important for other C-suite professionals to be thinking about?

I think C-suite leaders should be thinking about how do they take advantage of the opportunities available in terms of finding talent today. You know, the world has changed dramatically really over the last decade, but so— but very rapidly since COVID People are much more comfortable from working from home and in, you know, different roles. You know, gone are the days when we all sat in an office 5 days a week and together. And so there are much— with that flexibility comes more opportunity to, to find the right talent, as Jason was talking about, that, that you need for your business.

Yeah, that's a really timely topic. And I'd be curious, Jason, from from your perspective on twofold. From a franchisor perspective, you've got an opportunity to tap into a remote workforce, but then at the franchisee level, what do you see they have? It's a little more brick-and-mortar kind of establishment, but how are they able to also tap into kind of this remote workforce or hybrid workforce?

Sure. So with Canine Resorts, you know, we have really, other than, you know, really in the heart of the pandemic, we at our corporate office have always believed in being together and actually working in person for the collaboration effect. So I'm a big proponent of having everybody in the office. I think it's important. It helps to set the culture. It really helps, you know, when we're bringing on a new person to get them entrenched in the business, familiar with the team and familiar with what we do. I do think it's important to have people in person when possible. With that being said, we do have 1 or 2 people who are remote. And, you know, they, they do come to the office when needed and, and generally are working remote in another state. So I think that it is definitely something that has changed my way of thinking. The pandemic has, and now we are able to, you know, work with some other people that we may not have considered in the past. For our franchise owners, it's pretty much, you know, we do run brick-and-mortar facilities. They're, you know, luxury resorts for dogs. So really not something that we can outsource to, you know, or really have anyone who isn't inside the resort. Maybe, you know, from a customer service perspective, that could be a possibility, but not something that we've done quite yet. Yeah.

And in some ways, you know, the benefits of being a franchise owner is that they have a remote back office and, and many of the things that they don't need to do on-premise. Uh, can you, can you speak a little about, you know, as specifically for your franchise owners, what you do for them, and generally what, like, what that means for other franchise owners that are looking for that type of business model to potentially acquire and purchase, whether from you or from other franchisors?

Yeah, so I think that, you know, um, you know, here at K9, like I said, we're, you know, in— we have to be in the resorts, and, you know, even our franchise owners, you know, and their team members have to be inside the resorts. But there's always things that you know, can be done from outside the four walls of the luxury hotel, such as accounting, potentially customer service. They can do, you know, a lot of their hiring via Zoom and do interviews that way to kind of help the process along and allow that to go faster. So there are definitely things that our franchisees can do. And during COVID for about a year, when our corporate office team members all worked from home, we did virtual discovery days, and discovery days are the last part of our process where it's a mutual approval. You know, the company gets to decide if we want to move forward with the candidate. Candidate at the same time, you know, has to make sure that they want to move forward with purchasing the franchise. And we did that very successfully for a year from March of 2020 until about March, April of 2021 when we started bringing that, you know, back to in-person.

Yeah.

And one other— sorry, Joe. One thing I'd add, I think Jason brings up a good point. It's really finding that right blend between having people in the office, having people available locally, and then taking advantage of the remote where you can. I, you know, I just think about our marketing program, and a lot of what drives leads for resorts is done through our agency who's in Southern California. Scorpion. And they are, you know, a lot— they're able to put together packages that the resort owners utilize to drive, to make the phone ring, basically. And so they're— but so, and the advantage to the franchisees, they get to leverage those very sophisticated expert resources rather than trying to hire it, hire it onto their own as a small business owner. So there's tremendous leverage in that and being able to, to, you know, K9 being able to tap into the right resource in the right place, you know, regardless of where they are, and bring them to bear on, in behalf of, on the benefit of the franchisees is tremendous, a very powerful concept, I think.

It's a good point. I would agree, and I think that gets to the, the interesting model that your CMO has is, is a kind of remote and outsourced or fractional leader in your organization. And as such, you know, we generally go into companies that are in— their leadership team is pretty localized, they're all in one place, but we— and we're the odd man out, odd person out. What has that been like for you, Dave, when you engage with clients that have a more traditional leadership team that's in person and you're the one that's not. How have you addressed that? What are some of the challenges and opportunities that come with that?

Yeah, well, K9 has been a great team to work with. They are a great group of people. Jason has been, you know, more than supportive. You know, when he talks about finding the smart people and hiring them, he also knows how to support them and let them do the, do the work. There, that's the other side of it, um, is that you have to— when you find those people, you have to, uh, give them the, the leash, if you will, or the latitude to do what they know how to do and support them. And he, he's great at that. So, um, that's the other thing is— and he's created a great culture of collaboration, and, you know, there's people just get along and work well together, um, So that's made it a lot easier. I think, you know, other than that, it's just a matter of regular communication. You know, you missed sort of the water cooler conversations, but you, you know, having regular communications, we have weekly meetings, we have, I have one-on-ones with Cassie, the Senior Vice President of Marketing at K9 every week. So good communication, having come from a background, I worked at HP for 26 years and it was actually a distributed workforce. Workforce years and years and years ago. So I had, you know, my boss where I worked in Vancouver, Washington, my boss worked in Boise, his boss worked in Roseville, her boss worked in San Diego, and it was a very distributed organization. And so it was, it was not unusual to, to, you know, need to be able to collaborate across, across the miles. And we had, you know, development teams in India that worked across time zones. So it it was kind of a natural thing for me to just make sure that the necessary communication was in place.

Jason, how about you? How was it working with kind of a senior leader remotely versus having your more entrenched team? Was there any nuances there you had to overcome?

Yeah, no, I think it worked out really, really well. And I think, you know, a lot of that had to do with, you know, I'm a very, you know, process person, right? Because we're in the franchise business. And in order to— and one of the things that I think you need to have a successful franchise is to have a lot of systems and processes in place. And that's something that, you know, I was very impressed when we started working with Dave, just, you know, the rhythm, the flow and the process that he was able to bring, you know, is something that I really appreciated. So I think that helped make it easy. And of course, you know, when we started working together was really when Zoom started becoming really popular. So that piece of technology also, you know, helped us and helped the situation.

Well, good.

So paint me a picture of what marketing looked like before Dave in your organization.

Sure. So we, you know, marketing was something that we, you know, we always work on, right? We always want to make sure to me any in any business, what, you know, and throughout all the different departments, there's always room for improvement. That's how you grow a business. You know, you get a whole bunch of smart people together in the room and you kick around different ideas. So So I think, you know, something that happened when we brought Dave in was just getting a different perspective, bringing in a perspective of someone that, you know, really has a lot of experience in marketing and coming to the table with creative ideas on the one side. And then on the other side, you know, listening and doing a great job of hearing the entire team from the canine side and then helping put everything together into one cohesive marketing plan. So, you know, the plans have been great. It's really helped us and our whole entire franchise system scale and grow the business. And especially those franchise owners that, you know, are just starting out, that are just opening their first location, they really appreciate the marketing plan in a box, if you will. Everything's all figured out for them. It's been tested. There's, you know, proven you know, practices behind what we're asking them to do. And then they're seeing the results. They're seeing their resort open up and, you know, either meet or exceed revenue projections. And that's an exciting thing for everyone involved. And so that, that's something that, you know, I really enjoyed over the past several years.

Dave, how would you assess the marketing landscape when you arrived at K9?

I would say the change, really the transformation was from no dedicated marketing team. There were people that were doing marketing. They were also doing other jobs, typically ops, from no dedicated marketing team to a fully fledged, fully functional, highly performing marketing team. So we've got Cassie Gato, who's a Senior Vice President of Marketing. She's fully in place now. We just in May hired a second person. There's, there's another— there have been some interns helping with social media. And, um, so that's been, I think, the biggest transformation. Um, as K9 has grown, um, we've, you know, I've been able to hire those people, coach them, mentor them, um, advise them, um, and really get them solidly in place and, and performing. And then I think the other thing is that, you know, we worked a lot on the grand opening plan that Jason was speaking about. And prior to my getting involved, it took, it took, I'd say, 18 months to 2 years to get to the point where new resorts are profitable. And now that's within a matter of months because we, we, we redid the marketing plan. We, we used, we utilized some Facebook targeted advertising, some special offers. We started offering sales of services prior to opening the doors. So actually, that's something that hadn't been done before. That's one of those strategic insights, the thing that was missing that was overlooked. And that made a huge difference. So, so then once we started putting— once we got that in place, resorts were opening with $40,000, $30,000, $40,000, $50,000 on the books on day one. And as, as Jason said, that creates tremendous excitement and momentum when you've just invested, you know, a couple million dollars and a couple of years to bring one of these resorts out of the ground. And you're just hoping that people come in the door. It's when they actually do come in the door, it's, it's, it's a real high.

Jason, so tell me a little bit about the state of the Franchise today. How's it going? Where you're at, where you're going next?

Sure. So things are going really, really well. We've had a really great start to 2024. 2023 was an amazing year. We opened 10 locations and awarded over 50 new franchise licenses. So definitely 2024, we hit the ground running. We have 2 locations that have already opened so far this year and we're only 5 weeks into the year. We've got another 18 locations that we're pretty confident will open in 2024. That'll bring our total number of open resorts to over 50 locations. So we're very, very excited about that. And we just keep growing in that regard. Also, we have over 100 franchisees that should open over the next several years. So we've expanded the team here at Canine Really, you know, we want to make sure that we staff up ahead of the growth that we know is coming. And we've done that. That's our commitment to the brand and to our franchise partners and franchise owners. And we're just really in a very big growth mode and excited what the next couple of years has in store.

Yeah, it's very exciting. You guys have grown fast and significantly and poised for continued scale. Kudos to you and the team. You know, how much of that would you attribute to the infrastructure that you put into marketing along the way in the last couple of years?

Yeah, I think that, you know, definitely there's, you know, the marketing is something that everyone's very sensitive of, right? Because, you know, us at the corporate office, we want to make sure that our locations are opening and each franchise owner and each location is tremendously successful. And as Dave alluded to earlier, our franchise owners, you know, are spending anywhere from $2 to $3 million to open a brand new Canine Resorts facility. In some cases, a little bit more depending on the exact square footage of the resort. And marketing is important. It's an important piece of it, a very important piece of it. We've got to make sure that we get it right. We've all done a tremendous job, you know, at the corporate office, and Dave's been a big part of that, along with our franchise owners, of making sure that, you know, we're really testing what is working well, what can we improve upon, how can we make it better? That's kind of our general philosophy with, with all different, all the different components of the business, right? It's not just limited to marketing. It's, you know, in the real estate search and in the training and the operations. What can we do to continuously make the business and the brand better and stronger? And I think we've all done a very nice job with that. Marketing certainly has grown in leaps and bounds over the last 3 years, and I think it's going to continue to grow over the next several years. Things are constantly changing, right, with respect to marketing, definitely on the digital side. And a large component that, you know, sometimes is overlooked by franchise owners is what each franchise owner can do in their market, meaning, you know, the grassroots marketing is very, very important get out in the neighborhoods, meet the Chamber of Commerce, meet the other business owners, meet the community members and community leaders that are really, you know, going to be able to help you spread the word that your new Canine Resorts just opened is just so, so, so important. So I always want to make sure that, you know, that I mention that a big piece of marketing is what the franchise owners and their local team can do in the marketplace. Networking, getting to know the other pet professionals, getting to know the community.

Yeah, I think a great example of that was, um, in, uh, Cherry Hill, where they— the, the, the general manager there struck up a relationship with a local brewpub, and they had a— they came up with a Canine Resorts Amber, I think it was, and did a promotion on, uh, on one day, and they had people coming in with, you know, buying beer and, and getting exposure to Canine Resorts. I think that's an example of the kind of creativity that can happen at the local level.

Yeah. In addition to that, you know, we recently had a husband and wife team in Pennsylvania, Deb and Costas, open up their Canine Resorts location a couple of months ago, maybe 6 months ago now. And they were involved in every event that happened in their community for 6 months leading up to the grand opening. And that's rare. I mean, a lot of the time our franchise owners, look, they're busy, they're worrying, you know, about the construction. They're overseeing that. They're starting to hire the staff. But Deb and Costas really did a tremendous job still, you know, juggling all of those pieces, but getting to every single event, meeting hundreds of people, hundreds of dogs in the 6 months leading up to their grand opening. And they opened up with tremendous success and they're continuing to grow. And they're really, you know, now continuing to realize all the different, you know, really the efforts that they put in so far in advance to their opening is really paying off in a really big way.

Yeah. One other thing I want to add in terms of sort of changes, one of the things we did fairly early on was we made some tweaks to the Canine brand and really clarified, I think, what it stood for going in. You know, when I arrived, it was kind of all about luxury, which was great.. And, and we did some customer interviews and what we heard was, you know, luxury is fine, but really what makes me, what made me choose Canine was my dog was really well cared for and loved, came home tired and happy, and the facilities were immaculate. And so we actually created trademarks around each of those 3 pillars. And now, you know, there's plaques in every location that talks about those 3 things. So it's really clear. We really clarified why it is that someone should choose Canine above any other alternative and made that really clear. So I think we, we sort of tweaked, and then we came up with the tagline of, uh, 5-star service, love and fun included. So we added that love and fun part into the luxury part, and that little tweak to the brand I think really helped.

Yeah, too bad you couldn't interview the dogs.

They made a guest appearance, Joe, in some of the interviews alongside their owners. They did.

Well, we were doing, we were doing a, yeah, we did actually. And we did a video shoot and it was fun watching the dogs pull their owners into the canine resorts because they were so excited to be there. And so, so we could, you know, it really, it, the dogs are great testimonials for, for them.

Yeah.

Yep. Dave, you know, marketing, you've done it for different types of companies., over the years. Marketing for a franchisor is, is a really unique marketing challenge. Can you talk about that a little bit from your perception, kind of looking back on, on what, what was interesting, what worked, what you learned?

Well, I think the one that— the starkest difference— well, I guess a couple things. One is, you know, I, I kind of view the franchisor's role as really being the R&D and figuring out the system that works so that it is replicatable in each location. I think that's absolutely fundamental. One way that's, it's, you know, it's different in how the website's designed. You gotta have local pages, you gotta have local national pages. It's different how you do SEO. There's gotta be local SEO and national SEO. Those have to be coordinated. And then the way you, you manage social media, we just are currently rolling out a tool called Sochi, which will allow us to centrally view all of the social media posts and push social media posts out that makes it really easy for franchisers to put things together that are both on brand. It's really combining brand consistency with the local creativity and making those two things come together. And so that's a real challenge for any franchisor because you want the brand. You don't want franchisees to be posting anything and everything. You want to be consistent with the brand and carrying that brand message forward. But at the same time, you can't do it all centrally. It has to be done locally. And you want that local community involvement, the local creativity, the local personality. So combining those two things is a real, I think, interesting challenge for any franchisor.

Jason, and with your time with Dave and in general, do you have a different appreciation for kind of a strategic level marketing versus tactical, or have you learned anything over the last couple years that you've taken away from this fractional CMO engagement?

Yeah, absolutely. You know, there's just, you know, with the wealth of knowledge that, you know, Dave is able to bring to the table and definitely, you know, looking at it from, you know, 30,000 feet rather than living in it day to day, You know, it really helped us to be able to be strategic and, you know, quarterly decide what are the projects that we want to work for in the next 90-day period, tackle them, you know, measure that result 90 days later, you know, and then be able to move on and do it again. So definitely, you know, love the strategic approach.

Dave, any other insights of the pet industry from you that you've learned in the last couple of years that are really standing out in your mind?

Yeah, I think it's really clear that, um, pet owners consider themselves pet parents. Finding, finding a place that they can trust their dog with is much like finding a preschool or daycare center for a child. It's, it's that important. In fact, we, we had to— just had to put our dog down on Saturday, and, um, the dogs are a tremendous part of the family. And, um, and so that's the kind of care that— and the sort of trust that, that pet owners need with whoever they do business with. Um, it's, it's, it's— they're their children.

It's their family. Totally agree.

Totally agree. Yeah, sorry to hear about that, Dave.

We lost—

I didn't mean to bring up a downer, but we also lost a dog last, you know, 9 months. I— it is— it's so It's such a big part of your family and it's only natural that they would take that level of care and concern when choosing a place to house their little baby. What about working together? Anything that worked really well or anything that you had to change or tweak along the way? It's this fractional CMO work. It's all about building trust between the CMO and the owner and it doesn't work if that trust isn't there. And we've built our CMO system around supporting that trust building between the CMO and the owner. But anything that you two found out about each other, about yourselves that helped or hindered that relationship building and trust?

Yeah, look, to me, at the end of the day, you have to, you know, trust and respect the people that you're working with and, you know, believe that they can have an impact on your business. And, you know, we certainly believe that, you know, with Dave and value everything that he was able to bring to the table. You know, we learned a lot. There were a lot of things that, you know, systems we didn't have in place that we now have today. And, you know, we're just going to take those, you know, those best practices and, you know, as we continue to grow, make sure that we're focused on them and we're always doing what we can to improve the marketing for the brand, for the franchise owners. And really, as you know, Dave mentioned earlier, get the right messaging to the customer. We want to make sure that the customer is comfortable every time they come into a Canine Resorts. We feel that they are. And there's always, you know, an opportunity to improve messaging to make sure that, you know, everyone's aligned and on the same page.

How about you, Dave?

Thoughts on communication and building relationship and trust with Well, I feel like, I feel, as I said before, I feel like Jason placed a lot of trust in me, and that was absolutely critical to getting anything done. You know, that is very empowering. The organization would easily align with what I was doing because Jason was behind it and 100% behind it. So, you know, that was absolutely critical. I guess if I were to do it over again, I'd probably spend more time, Jason, with you. Um, there was, you know, we, we put a lot of processes in place and that worked. Um, but, um, you know, there, there, that would be the thing that I would probably do more. I remember when we, when we finished the, um, our first goal was to get the, the resorts open to profitability quicker. And we did that fairly quickly. And then I, uh, that there were key points that were key points of communication that went back to Jason. I said, what do we want to do next? Because we needed another direction. And Jason said, well, we need to get resource to maturity, you know, within 2 or 3 years. And so that became our next goal. So absolutely critical is sort of alignment around that high-level purpose or high-level goal, and then everything can flow from that. So I guess if you have key alignment around some of those fundamentals, you can get a lot done you know, with that trust and independence.

How much interaction did you have, Dave, with the franchisees, franchise owners?

It was— I actually, well, I went to one of the conferences a couple of years ago, met several of them. That was great. There have been a couple of them that have been involved in some of the systems development we've been doing. I've had a chance to talk with them, and I always have— this is something I learned a long time ago in my career, but, you know, really, I looked at the franchisees as customers. They needed to be made happy by corporate marketing. And so I was very careful and respectful to understand their input. There were some things that they had some concerns about. And really, franchisees, their question is, what have you done for me today? And so if they don't see marketing as contributing to their top line and bottom line, then it it starts to unravel. So I would— I tried my best to listen and make sure that we were working on things that were important to them and made a difference to them.

Jason, what, what's the strength of your team today? Now Dave's going to start stepping away and put it all back in your lap and your team's lap. How confident do you feel in that, in that team that he's helped you build and put in place to take things forward?

Very, very confident. We've got a great group of people here. We've got, you know, people that come from all different marketing backgrounds. We've built a really nice team that works each and every day to make sure that, you know, we're doing the best that we can for our franchise owners and for the brand and for the customers. So very, very confident. I think that there's a lot of, you know, systems that Dave put in place that are going to carry us forward. And we're going to continue to utilize them, make them better, you know, continue to evolve like we have been and grow together.

What's one thing that you think you'll miss not having Dave around in his role?

You know, some great ideas. I know we'll probably stay in touch and be able to have some think sessions, you know, in the future. There's been a lot of collaboration between everybody that's been involved. And so that, that's certainly something that I'll miss. And I'm sure, you know, like I said, there'll be other opportunities down the road.

Dave, what's your assessment of the team that you've helped build there? And what's one thing you'll miss?

Well, I think the team's very strong and it does get to the point where, you know, because of the day-to-day involvement, it starts to get to be beyond what a fractional can do. And it feels like we reached that point. And so it feels like the perfect sort of transition and exactly what was, what was always planned and what was always anticipated. It's a little bit like sending a child off to college, you know, it's coming, but the day it comes, it's a shock. And so, but I mean, the team is really well, well well positioned. They're taking things beyond where, where, you know, they'll continue to improve and, um, and make the system great. And, and also be— they're able to support— I mean, the number of openings that, that, that K9's doing now is about twice what it was last year. And I mean, when we started working together, they had 13 open. Now they have 32 or 33. They're going to open another 18 or 20 this year. That is a tremendous pace. And, and the resources are now in place to support each of those grand openings, which is each one of those grand openings is a big push from the, from the corporate team to support the franchisee to get, get the doors open, get the thing, get the business going. So I'm 100% confident.

Good.

You're going to miss Jason. Yes. Yeah, Jason, as I said, I, I don't think I could have asked for a better, uh, CEO to work with, uh, in terms of the, the trust and the confidence that he placed in me and his leadership ability and his ability to create a fantastic culture, uh, as well as a, um, just the, the way that the whole business is dialed in. I mean, they, they are really experts in the field of, of taking care of dogs dogs, and it shows in everything that they do.

Well, thank you.

Appreciate that. Well, Jason, you are another success story for your CMO. I'm really appreciative also of having you as a client. Dave, you're also a shining example of what a good CMO does in that fractional engagement and the transformation that really has occurred in marketing for K9. That aligned with their growth initiatives. And I think you nailed it when we, we like to establish wildly important goals for our clients. The first one was let's get more profitable quickly, and that was the big focus. You got that done, and then it was, right, how do we help these franchisees mature more quickly? And then that was the next big focus. And, and, and that just goes to show what I think the differences are between strategic marketers like ourselves, and maybe a necessary but also not as strategic general agency. You know, that we come in with very strategic minds and, and make big impactful changes, and then the agencies are also very important and they do a lot of the creative work and the design work to support that. And this is, this is a great example. So thank you for, for being a great client, Jason.

We appreciate that. Of course. Thank you both.

Appreciate all the help. Yeah, and one of the things that often happens is people want to reach out, and especially with such a well-run franchise organization, you might have some potential franchise owners interested in learning more about what it takes to be a franchisee. What's the best way for them to reach out to you, Jason, or anybody that wants to learn more about what you're doing at, at K9 Resorts?

Sure, I would direct them from a consumer standpoint to k9resorts.com, just the letter K, the number 9. K9Resorts.com. And for anyone interested in potentially becoming a franchise partner, K9Franchise.com. Letter K, number 9, and the word franchise.com.

Great.

And we will have that detail in the show notes. And then Dave, if, if the next pet franchisor wants to reach out and get you, or really any franchise or business owner interested in, in learning more about what you do, what's the best way for them to reach you?

Yeah, they can reach me at dave@yourcmo.com and reach out to me there. And I love to talk marketing and I'd be happy to have a conversation with anybody who is experiencing some marketing challenges or wondering if there might be a way to do it better.

Great. Well, thank you both for being on the show. Jason, it really was nice to get to know you over the last couple conversations we've had and excited to see your growth.

So thank you for being here. My pleasure. Thank you.

Take care.

Thank you, Dave, and thank you for, for making time and jumping on and sharing your experiences with us as well. Thanks, it's been fun.

Yeah.

And to my audience, our audience, thank you for listening. And if you want to get a hold of Jason or Dave, we've got the details in the show notes. And don't forget to subscribe to this podcast. My producers make sure I say that so we can get our numbers up, but more importantly, so you can meet more interesting people like Jason and Dave in the future. So thank you for your time as well. And that's a wrap.

There's another successful episode of the Fractional C-Suite Retreat. See our show notes and more episodes at fractionalcsuitretreat.com. This podcast is sponsored by Your CMO, helping organizations grow, save time and money with better marketing strategy and fractional execution. Visit them at yourcmo.com. Your CMO dot com.

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