Setting up for success in a Hybrid world - Harrison Ryder - Fractional C-Suite Retreat - Episode #30

Growing a business is hard, but it does not have to be. Once a week, we take a break from the hustle and bustle in business to talk about innovations and what's new in the C-suite. This is the Fractional C-Suite Retreat, and I'm Joseph Frost. Pull up a seat at the fire, grab a drink, smoke a cigar, and just join me as we relax, learn, and get inspired. This retreat is sponsored by Your CMO, helping organizations grow with better marketing strategy. Welcome. Today's guest is an innovative industry mind, highly skilled strategist. Building a sales infrastructure that will drive breakthrough sales results is his specialty. He's an outsourced VP of sales. Welcome Harrison Ryder. How are you, Harrison?

I'm well. Thank you very much for having me.

Yeah. Great to have you on the show. It's been a while since we chatted a few weeks back, but now we're here and live and Let's get straight to it. The question I like to lead off with is, from your perspective, what's something that you see in the C-suite that maybe other C-suite members aren't seeing today? What's an opportunity or a challenge?

You know, it's interesting. I think a challenge that I see is the importance of culture within an organization and how ultimately that is going to dictate what direction what results, what value a customer, a company adds to the marketplace, to its clients that it participates in. And I think, again, culture is such a huge, huge measure of how successful a company is going to be.

Yeah, I'm hearing culture brought up more and more in different discussions. I'm curious, how do you measure culture in a company?

You know, I've always kind of seen it, you know, from the top down. I tend to work with small to medium-sized companies. So typically there's an owner involved or a founder involved, and ultimately I think that person sets the cultural tone and it's dictated then by senior management and drifts down throughout the organization. But it truly can add life. It truly can, you know, be that driving force that companies need.

Yeah. I mean, it can be very subjective, right? You, you sometimes you feel it or, or you don't feel it. And sometimes you can measure it. I think how well people understand core values through surveys and there's different ways to measure it, but I think it's a lot more subjective than objective when it comes to culture. Is that what you see?

I guess I would agree with that. I do think some organizations have very strong cultures, and if you're part of it, you feel that, you sense that, and that drives the behaviors that you engage in. So I would agree with that. I do think organizations need to be better at developing strong cultures and figuring out ways to measure that, not only within the organization, But perhaps equally important, it, it is with the client base, you know, in terms of why do clients do business with the company? And, you know, does their culture impact that?

Well, let's unpack that culture a little bit more then. If, if some companies that you work with have a strong culture, what kind of things are you seeing objectively? Like, what's happening in those organizations that's not happening in other organizations? If there's a strong culture.

Sure. Well, I think of a client that, that I work with that has a strong culture. The, the owner has, has been, you know, the driving force behind that. But as they launched a new division, this new division just kind of was floundering, really had no sales direction at all. I was brought in as an outsourced VP of sales to turn sales around. And what I found is that when I first got there, sales was something that was done in a back room and other people within the, the, the department and the organization as a whole weren't really aware of how things were done. They knew that sales were happening sometime. But what I found is that as we put the proper processes and procedures in place, that all of a sudden as sales started happening, not in the back room, but in the forefront, that people knew that sales were happening, they could start to see the metrics. Metrics. They could start to see the sales pipeline. They knew within the sales process their particular involvement and when that was going to be happening as a sales opportunity would move down the sales funnel because that was very defined. And then all of a sudden, people started to get excited that the organization was growing and developing. And people, you know, I like to say that they would they would leave work Friday happier than they came in on Monday, not just because of a Friday-Monday thing, but because the organization was growing and they were part of it. They had a, a role to play. This organization has since done a great job at utilizing metrics to measure kind of the behavior that they want, the accountability that they want, but they've been able to really push that down to the individual employee level. So You know, each individual employee in a key role has a scorecard, numbers that they're responsible for. And it's really more than numbers, but it's just a way to measure something as to the impact, the things that they control and drive, ultimately drives the behavior.

So where did culture play in that success? Was it in the— you know, it sounds like when sales picked up, the culture picked up, or was there culture that was driving the sales effort that, that picked, you know, that, that led to more sales, which, which, because I, I was trying to, uh, to be, be understanding of where culture fit into all of that.

I think culture, um, played a big role in that. I think, you know, quite frankly, just outta fairness for this company, they have a much larger division and that was really the focus. Uh, that was where the majority of revenue was coming from., but they had this other side business that a wonderful opportunity to, to take advantage of. And they just hadn't invested the time. They hadn't, they didn't have the skill sets to kind of build out a sales area. And so as a result, you had people that were sharing different roles. But, but ultimately those roles were clearly defined. And you had support structure around the sales in terms of implementation and customer success and all of those things.

Yeah. So the culture was strong in the main line of business and it just hadn't made its way to this side project. And, and as the owner founder, he or she came in and said, let's, let's, let's invest that time and energy and give the proper resources so we can have some success in that organization and that side business as well. So part of that sounded like to me that that brought some needed investment, but also some accountability and some measurement and some metrics that must be part of their overall culture. And that those two things combined can lead to that focused effort and that energy and ultimately the success. Is that a fair statement?

Very much so. Very much so. You know, something that you don't hear talked about as culture is discussed is the idea of accountability. And, you know, I think, you know, regardless of what generation we're part of, I think, you know, in our work lives, we want to have impact. We want to, you know, be involved in something that is perhaps bigger than ourselves. And, you know, by having clearly defined goals and having accountability in place and the proper measurements and all of those things, I just really think allow people to flourish, you know, regardless of what generation we are.

Yeah. I was in a meeting the other day and there was an implementer, not an EOS implementer, but a strategic implementer. And he was walking us through kind of a little workshop that was similar to Traction. But he had a slide up there that said accountability equals kindness within an organization. I thought that was interesting. Framing that having clear accountability is a kind thing to do for your team and being able to recognize what you're accountable for is a nice thing to know as an employee or as a team member. Just be clear on what your accountabilities are is a kind act as opposed to a lot of organizations that, you know, I've been around, I'm sure you have, where there's not clear accountability is just ambiguous. It creates a lot of unnecessary stress and anxiety and confusion. But in some ways, in many ways, accountability is a kind act. And those organizations that embrace it have not only better results normally, but I think they have a stronger culture. Team members understand where they fit.

Yeah.

And very much so. So the area of culture that I'm finding really intriguing to explore is around how do you build culture in a hybrid world. So with traditional offices, you can get people in a huddle and have camaraderie in the hallways, have team events, and you're creating all this opportunity for people to really connect in and outside of work. And that culture can permeate more organically that way. But we have these hybrid workforces now, and it, in our case, I don't know about you, but we have, we have people across the globe that are working for us. And we're, I'm asking the question, how do you, how do you build and keep a good culture in that dispersed hybrid work environment? Have you had any thoughts on that or successes around that? I know you're, you know, you're not a culture captain or anything. You're, you're outside VP of sales, but I'm just curious what you're thinking about culture in a hybrid environment.

You know, I think again, it's management, it's senior management that's dictating the culture. And so I know as I work with my clients and their sales teams, I'm oftentimes not on site, but we have, you know, very structured meetings in terms of we meet consistently each week. It's very defined in terms of what needs to be brought to the meetings. You know, you mentioned EOS. I run my meetings with an L10 format, and it's amazing on how focused we are and how much we get accomplished. When I was first exposed to EOS, I remember saying, I've never been in a more productive meeting my 30-plus years in corporate America. You always had somebody that had an agenda or sidetracked a meeting and we stay very focused and get things accomplished. And everybody understands what they need to bring to a meeting to be prepared. And so I think that that ultimately drives the culture even in a virtual work environment.

Yeah, I definitely agree with that. The L10 was a big eye-opener for me. For somebody who's been very familiar with the Gazelle's one-page strategic plan and scaling up format, that the L10 was the major difference in EOS between its predecessor. But there's a softer side of culture that I'm kind of referring to. It's the warm and fuzzy stuff that is part of the culture. It's there or it's not. You can feel it. It's hard to, once again, that's the hard part to, you know, objectively quantify. But certainly as fractionals, we feel it every time we start a new engagement because we're an outsider and we're not geographically located. Most of the time it's hybrid. And I can tell you what we've done, and I'd be curious what you're doing to try to become part of the culture or integrate with the culture, if you will. We've made the first, so we have a series of quarterly meetings. Our first meeting, we've determined that it will always be in person, even though most of our work's done virtual. We are going out of our way to have the first meeting in person. And that usually happens about 60 days after our initial engagement. And it's a full-day meeting and that's just built into our agreements now. We're going to fly out to visit you and that's first step, like face-to-face, kind of making that work. The other thing that we've done, we haven't integrated this officially, but it's just kind of happened is with our remote staff. We have team members in Mexico and in the Philippines. I've had a chance personally as the owner founder to visit both those countries and bring the team together for a, you know, in the Philippines it was for a half day lunch and meet and greet. In Mexico it was a couple-day kind of, um, like more retreat, um, setup. And the difference between myself meeting those individuals that I had worked with hybrid and virtually for 2 years was just— it was exponentially different once I met them in person, um, and for them to meet each other, because they're also virtual within those own countries. They don't work in an office together.

The—

their tightness as a group improve quite a bit. So we're, we're, we're considering building in some very intentional semi-annual or annual all-team meetings or geographically related team meetings just so we can get that human touch. I just don't think you can replace it. You can certainly try, but there's just something about being in person that is really hard to replicate.

What have you found? I, I, I would agree. You know, my most successful engagements are, you know, when there is that in-person component. You know, I know on the sales team, what, what is key is that I travel with my sales reps. I attend sales appointments with them. Because, you know, one, we can strategize on how to move opportunities further. Or forward. But we— what we can also do is we can debrief afterwards. And, you know, as, as you travel with people, you, you tend to get to know people really well, and you tend to bond as you, you know, rush for a plane or something along those lines. The other piece is that, you know, even if it is a regional type sale or a local type sale, you can definitely bond, but you can also factor in kind of team building exercises. I know I, I sit on the management teams of many of my clients, and that's been a high priority to get the various departments, the various teams together. You know, one recently we did axe throwing and go-kart racing. You know, that's a great time. You know, it's great to, you know, identify the people that are highly competitive that afterwards over a few beers want to talk about it. Or, you know, just the people that just enjoy that bonding together. So, you know, I think team building is huge.

Yeah. How do you see that? So the other component of this hybrid workforce is it is certainly impacting sales. So as a VP of sales, you've got what used to be, you know, road warriors that would travel a lot, go out to different customer sites, prospect sites. And that, you know, went away. Do you see that coming back again to the same level it was pre-pandemic, or do you see salespeople are now working into more of this, we'll do a lot of stuff virtually and a lot less in person?

I see it being a combination. You know, I, I traveled on vacation personally this past weekend and, you know, I ended up flying back on Tuesday and just made a note, one, how I felt. About traveling, and I enjoy traveling so much more when you do it personally as opposed to for business. The other piece is just watching people. But as I was sharing with my wife, just, you know, I'd fly across the country for an hour and a half meeting, and sometimes it was a large client, and that was the only meeting that I had. And, you know, as I've had time to kind of rethink about how that could have been more productive and more value, goal, not only to the client or the prospect, but also to the organization and quite frankly to myself. I think there needs to be that combination. I think salespeople need to really be kind of the trusted advisor, somebody who is, is not viewed as the salesperson, but as an industry expert, as somebody who's going to add value. And that is really developed over Zoom meetings and then ultimately in face-to-face meetings. But, but again, I, I think, you know, the idea of getting on a plane and flying 4 or 5 hours for an hour meeting is, is probably not gonna come back. I, I, I just think companies realize they can be more productive and more cost effective. And, and I think quite frankly, clients don't want that either. Right. As they struggle with their workloads.

Well, it's, it is interesting. It's, it'll be, it'll be very interesting to see how it plays out over the next coming years. But, You've got clients that are having a hybrid workforce. So if you go to meet a prospect, are they at home? Are they in the office? Are they at a coffee shop? So you've got that issue to contend with. You got the practicality of it. It's so much more expensive to travel for those 1-hour meetings than to Zoom it in.

What have you seen?

You know, what do you see the preference of your salespeople? Like, do they have the same, like, or are they thinking, no, I gotta get in front of 'em or I can't close? Or are they, no, I can be just as effective as before. What, what kind of feedback are you getting from sales folks?

You know, it's interesting when everything shut down, the, the, the salespeople that struggled the most were the ones that were used to closing business over lunches or over dinners. And oftentimes those individuals really struggled to adapt to the new environment. And in fact, weren't effective at all in the Zoom meeting because again, they were used to kind of that really high client touch. And so what I'm seeing is that it is a combination. I think the salespeople that excel are ones that can be effective on Zoom but also can be effective in person. I'm in the New England area, and the culture of New England is, let's do business first, and then after we do business, let's celebrate. I realize that there's other parts of the country that want to get to know you first before we do business. And it's just a salesperson being able to adapt to their client's needs and their client's preferences. You know, one of the things, this sounds strange, you probably shares my age, but I had a salesperson that only texts their client and it's a very large employer. And I thought, what? And he said, you know, I asked, what's your preferred mode of communication? And the client said, I'd like you to text me. And that sale is moving forward nicely. And they text.

Yeah, it does seem weird. It does seem weird, but that's the way it works. It's certainly challenging to adapt to all these changes. It makes it hard for growing businesses to figure it out. And that's a part of the culture question these days. I have a client and they're going through this cultural discussion. Do we as a company want to be okay with hybrid work or not. And it's a big struggle because the owner's very resistant, but his team is very adamant that we're not going to be able to attract and retain the people if we don't. And it's certainly not, it's a culture question because it's certainly not a productivity question. Like, you know, during the pandemic, people went home, were productive, came back, We're productive. Like it's neither here nor there. It's a founder's, you know, feeling about the way this situation should be. And at the end of the day, this particular founder's going to make a decision, but it's going to impact culture. And I think a lot of companies are going through that struggle. I think Elon Musk, I think I saw him, he's like, everybody's coming back to work and that's not maybe going to bode well for those that decide to leave. But every company, small to big, is struggling with this right now. And that, that is a culture question.

Very much so. You know, there's obviously employees are saying, well, if you force me to come back, I'll leave. I've seen the opposite though, too. I've seen companies that have decided to go 100% virtual and employees have left because they wanted that separate work-life balance, if you will. You know, they missed going into an office, and if they couldn't do that, they decided to go elsewhere. So it kind of works both ways. It's interesting. I think ultimately it's one, the productivity has to be there. You know, companies have to produce results. But then two, it's figuring out what are the ways to do it and what are the benefits of either being full-time in an office or a hybrid office, hybrid model, or completely virtual.

Yeah. And should the— and should compensation change? Should it be different by— because of role or seniority? Like there's lots of different variables that go into that conversation.

Yeah.

Let's switch gears a little bit. As a fractional or outsourced VP of sales, What are some of the challenges that you see working in a remote, you know, part-time outsourced fractional versus someone who is actually full-time?

You know, it's interesting. I'd say on the positive side, I'm still amazed to this day on how an organization, regardless of what department it is, can take a fractional resource and laser focus that on a particular problem that they're facing and achieve incredible results for, you know, a fraction of the time or in a fraction of the time and for a fraction of the cost. I see that obviously on the sales side. I see that on the finance side. I see that on the marketing side. I also see that on the legal side. You know, I remember in corporate America when we would use our, you know, chief legal officer to help negotiate contracts, inevitably it would be bumped down to somebody, you know, with less experience if it stayed internal or it would be handed off to an outside counsel. And if that were the case, then we always struggled with that person trying to, you know, increase their fees. And then, you know, negotiations might not have been as smooth as they could be. But, you know, I've seen it now. You could take somebody that really is functioning as a chief legal officer and apply them to a difficult contract, apply those resources and get wonderful results in a short amount of time. So I see that as a huge plus. The challenge that I face in working with small to medium-sized companies is that sometimes they will view me as an employee and You know, one say, well, gosh, you're only here 8 hours. How, how can we accomplish something? You know, we have employees here that are, you know, 40 hours a week. How can you do that? And I think what, what needs to be established very quickly is that I'm not an employee. I'm a trusted resource who brings a tremendous amount of experience to a, to a company that, you know, quite frankly, they couldn't afford to hire. Full-time, but still get equal results, if not better results.

Yeah, that whole time equals value is always a concern for me too, going into an engagement with any of our clients or any of our CMOs. When that becomes about trading time for dollars, it's not conducive to a good outsource or fractional engagement. That works for a more traditional kind of agency or consulting approach where it is a dollar per hour, but at the level that we operate at and you operate at, the executive level, it's more about what is the value you bring through your years of experience, through your connections, through your problem solving, your focus, prioritization, your processes, your system, not about how many hours you're spending exactly that day or that week on that client. Exactly. And when a client gets that, it works super well. And when they don't, it is an ongoing struggle. And for us, it's not a cultural fit. You know, when, when we have those engagements where it's, they're looking for a trade for dollar per hour, that doesn't fit the way, that doesn't fit our business model or our people. There are other agencies, other organizations that that is a perfectly good fit for. And I've always thought on the flip side, if I'm playing by the hour, somebody's losing. I'm either losing or they're losing. And it's always a win-lose situation. But we bill by a flat fee based on a scope of work that needs to get done. And there's value to the work getting done and however long it takes to do it, that's, it is what it is. It's the agreed upon work.

So, and I think what's so key is there, as you mentioned, the scope of work that it needs to be agreed upon and The other component that is so critical is communication around that. You know, so people can, you know, see the progress that's been made and see the plans, what's next, and see those, see that develop. You know, it's when communication tends to break down that, you know, the, the, the thoughts of just like a virtual workforce, what is that person doing for us? You know, why are we paying this person money? What results are we getting?

Those kind of things. If you were to give advice to somebody looking to hire an outsourced VP of sales or marketing or HR operations or whatever, an outsourced provider or a fractional provider, what would you say 3 of the criteria are that are most important to look for?

I would say, you know, somebody who understands what the, what the client is looking to achieve. So somebody that has a very a good ability to listen to the client, to listen to what is being said and ultimately what is not being said initially and being able to kind of tease that apart as to, you know, what is the real reason that you, you know, for example, in my world, you need to grow sales. You know, I love the conversation when it starts with, you know, I need to grow revenue and, you know, I typically say, well, if we can grow it by $1,000 over last year, is that a success? And Obviously, that's not the case. But, you know, as we dig deeper, you tend to find out the real reason. Maybe an owner's looking to sell the business in a couple of years and wants to maximize the valuation that they can get. Well, all of a sudden, that becomes a very different conversation than I just want to grow sales. So it's, it's one, you know, understanding somebody who can understand the, the owner's why, if you will, and then help the owner to understand What are the consequences if these problems or these challenges are not fixed? And ultimately, how motivated is somebody to, to take on resources that are going to drive change within the organization? You know, I work with a startup organization. The founder has been very successful at, at growing sales, but he has taken on investors and the investors, you know, it's the classic example of now we want to see the adults in the room and we want to see that you have processes in place, repeatable processes. We want to see a pipeline. We want to be able to forecast off of that. Ultimately, they're looking for a return on their investment at some point. And so, you know, the owner has to, has to realize that, well, we've grown to a certain stage and now we need experts that can come in and kind of do the problems. I don't need to solve them all. And I think that's key. And so, you know, as they look to fractional resources, you know, it's not so keyed upon somebody has industry experience, but it's somebody who has strong business experience because oftentimes the problems that I face are similar across all industries.

Yeah. What are those problems? Those similar problems across all industries?

Yeah, typically it really starts with the sales infrastructure. You know, does an organization have a proper sales plan in place? Do they understand their target market? Do they have a unique value proposition that they're trying to bring to that market? Do they have the compensation plans that are driving the behavior that they want to that they want their salespeople to achieve? Do they have the right bodies in the right seats? You know, do they have salespeople that are in the right roles? And ultimately, do they have the right systems in place? You know, have they defined what their sales process looks like? And have they incorporated that into a CRM system that then they can start to develop proper sales metrics out of, they can start to forecast out of, you know, all of those kind of core things that need to be in place. And then ultimately, if they need somebody to execute on the plans that are developed, do they have that resource? And oftentimes that fractional person can build out the infrastructure, but then stay on to manage the team for a certain amount of time.

Yeah, I would agree that the infrastructure in the sales department is critical to success. And from a marketing standpoint, our focus when going into a new client is understanding what's the marketing alignment with that infrastructure and where can marketing drive the most value. We, we believe that marketing's purpose is to drive sales and it's understanding of the sales needs that help drive what the marketing strategy should be and the overall objectives of the organization as well. We had a client who recently was working with one of our CMOs and they've just got a SaaS company. So it's a, it's an older technology software as a service. And for the first 6 or 9 months, the focus was really trying to increase sales, trying to get more downloads to convert. But over the process of those 9 months, our, our CMO just gave the bad news to the clients. Your, your software is outdated. Your technology is no longer, you know, very relevant. It's not a marketing problem you have, it's a software problem. And unless you're willing, and they were, you know, a small player in a big pond and there's big, big players that they were never gonna spend near as much money to update their software. So the decision was after 9 months of trying, well, let's agree to kind of sunset this product and take an opportunity to build something new again. And the marketing shifted because now we're going to basically find the lowest hanging fruit, net the most cash while we can as the product slowly, you know, out its natural life, but then reinvest energy into something new. And organizational changes and objectives we're driving those marketing changes more so than the sales needs in that point. But it's, since there, it's an interesting business that we get into with, as the fractional or outsourced providers, we see all sorts of different things. And I think that's one of the values is we can bring expertise from one company and a problem we solve there into the next company. And even simultaneously, if you're serving more than one or 2 or 3 clients at a time.

You know, what's also interesting is I'm amazed, and I understand why small to medium-sized companies do it, but you still see, you know, we're hiring for a VP of sales and marketing. And, you know, quite frankly, the skill sets are so different between a VP of sales and a VP of marketing. And, you know, when companies try to do that and they, again, look to save money in trying to do that. But ultimately what you find is that you've got somebody who excels in one area over the other, and that other area just kind of flounders and it doesn't add the true value. So, you know, it's always great to be able to say, hey, you know, you know, for a fraction of the cost, you could bring on fractional resources in both areas. They can both work together and achieve wonderful results. But, you know, you've got to have the defined areas.

Yeah, agreed 100%. We always look for the and marketers in an organization. That's a good Yeah, that's a good lead-in for us. And we have HR and marketing, you know, sales and marketing, owner and marketing. I mean, it's a lot of and marketers in an organization. IT and marketing, I've seen that. And, you know, that and marketing becomes an opportunity for the fractional CMO to come in and enhance the team in a fractional way because it's already being done in an and way. Sure.

Yeah, very much so.

Let's switch gears again. Tell me a little bit about your thoughts on leadership in general. I'm trying to get a good definition going of leadership. So I ask a lot of natural leaders, what, what do you believe the role of a leader is? If you had to define what the role of a leader is within an organization?

I think ultimately somebody who helps set the culture. Of an organization in one way or another. You know, it might not be somebody, it might not be the founder or the owner of the company, but it might be somebody in senior management. And then I think ultimately it's to help define the path on where the organization is going, and then ultimately helping to execute on the plans that were developed. And in doing so, making sure that they're motivating the employees to achieve agreed-upon goals.

That's what I think leadership is about. That's a great definition. You summarized a lot of what I hear. And so then what are— if you think of good leaders that you've been around and that you look up to and admire, what are some of the characteristics then of that leader that stands out to you?

Yeah, I would say people that tend to be humble, people that tend to be more of a servant leader. I know that's a term that, you know, might, might get overused at times, but, you know, really just kind of believes in a goal and, and, you know, is able to take their ego out of the picture and, you know, help others achieve their goals. You know, I have a situation I'm working with a a sales team, and one of the younger people on the sales team is buying his first home. And, you know, a good 9 months prior to this, we put in a sales plan that is really driving the behavior that we want within the organization. And this gentleman is just knocking the COVID off the ball. And, you know, to hear him, you know, be able, especially in this market, you know, be able to buy a home that, you know, quite frankly, is probably overpriced right But, you know, that's just— it's great. You know, that's a goal that he and his wife had. And to be able to help him achieve that in some ways, it's just wonderful.

Yeah, that's great. That's so good to hear. Any other characteristics that stand out to you?

Again, I think it's, you know, it's defining what are the expectations. It's clear communications. And ultimately, it's establishing a culture of accountability. You know, this gentleman that I referenced, this sales gentleman, he was a little short on his numbers for the month. We happen to have monthly goals. And, you know, he knew he had a long weekend coming in. And it was amazing to see him pick up the activity going into the weekend. You know, not, not, not creating a culture where he was gonna work all weekend by any means, but he knew the goal that he wanted to achieve, that we've asked him to achieve. And he was able to do that by stepping up the effort and working smarter, quite frankly. And, you know, again, it's, it's one of those things when all the goals kind of come into alignment, it's amazing on what can be accomplished.

Yeah.

Great story. Well, what do you—

speaking of weekends, what do you like to do for fun? What's your go-to activity or activities?

I tend to be an outdoor person. I'm a big fly fisherman. Oh, wow.

Okay.

You know, it's interesting. I used to speak romantically about fly fishing with my kids when they were younger, and my oldest son all of a sudden took it up in college and he has become a passionate fly fisherman and got me back into it. So I enjoy, you know, standing in the streams here in Massachusetts and New England. I'm also new to mountain biking. Okay. I just really enjoy it. You know, it's amazing how much fun going over the handlebars can be. I try to minimize that, but, you know, what I attribute it to is really, you know, when I was younger, I used to be an avid skier and skiing the moguls or the bumps, as we used to call them, you know, just the adrenaline rush that you would get. And, you know, I'm still amazed at what a mountain bike can go over, can go around, or can go through, you know, with the proper, proper line, proper speed, and proper balance. So I just really enjoy that. It's a great workout too.

So Wow. That sounds like fun. I, those are two sports that I don't get involved in much. My business partner, he, he, Jay, I don't know if you had a chance to meet Jay Gordman. He's a big biker, so he tells his biking stories. I have gone over the handlebars of a bike before. I was riding, I think it was a kid's bike. This is like 3 or 4 years ago, and I don't know why I was riding it. It was like a, you know, it wasn't a toddler bike or anything, but it was a smaller bike.. And I think I was just riding it from like a friend's house back to our house rather than putting the bike back in the truck. I'm like, I'll just ride this. It'll be fun. And somehow as I was pedaling, the chain fell off. And so the bike just collapsed on me and I went straight over the handlebars on the cement in the driveway or in the street. And That left a mark for quite a while. So I still remember it. So I don't know if I would say I liked going over, but I definitely remember it. But fly fishing is something I've only done once. We were on a trip to Alaska and my wife was about probably 4 or 5 months pregnant and we had purchased in a charity auction, a 4-day Alaskan resort package. And we were in Omaha, Nebraska when we purchased this. So nobody was bidding on it. Like who's going to Alaska to take advantage of this? Well, we just happened to have a trip already planned. So we bought this 4-day trip and we split 2 days with my parents and we took 2 days for ourselves. And so we were up there and one of the things where you could go fly fishing or kayaking or all these other cool things. So we went fly fishing with a guide and he walked us up the streams and these are right off the glacier. So they're cold. We're in our waders and we're walking up and my wife's wader gets a hole in or something and starts to fill up and she's 4 or 5 months pregnant. And the guide is like, well, I'll just carry you the rest of the way down. And I looked at him like, you're going to carry my wife all the way down? He's like, yeah, sure. So she jumped on his back and he carried her all the way down the stream. As we walked out, I felt like such a worthless husband watching the guide carry my pregnant wife down. But, you know, he got a big tip from me and she got out of there. But that was my one fly fishing opportunity. We only got a little bit in and then that happened.

You know, there's an expression in fly fishing. It's the tug. Is the drug. And, you know, because the rods tend to be very sensitive, um, you know, when you get a fish on, it's, it's just, it's so much fun, you know. And it's just a kind of great culture, the whole, whole bit. I, I just really enjoy it.

So yeah, well, I'll have to introduce you to, uh, Luke Templin. He's been on this, uh, podcast. He's a fractional CFO and, uh, he's a big fly fisherman. So you guys should have a lot to talk about. And then another friend of mine, Byron McFarland, is an avid fly fisherman. And we were just trading, actually today on LinkedIn, we were trading some messages around his trips. And I was talking about how great it is to work remotely. And he took a picture of his camper and he says, I'm working right now remotely from the streams. And so once again, back to the virtual world, you've got people working at all over the place at coffee shops and at fly fishing streams. That's the world we live in.

Yeah. And then, you know, quite frankly, as long as the results are there, does it really matter? Right.

Well, what's the best way for people to get a hold of you, Harrison?

They could either give me a call at 774-232-2904. Or can reach me at hrider@salesacceleration.com. Okay.

And we'll have those notes in the, in the show notes, so they'll be able to capture that. Well, I want to thank you so much for coming on today. It's been great. Great conversation. I really enjoyed it. I hope you did as well.

I did very much. Thank you so much, Joseph.

I really appreciate it. Yeah. And to our audience out there, thanks for tuning in and reach out to Harrison if you've got any questions about fly fishing or mountain biking or sales, I'm sure he'd be glad to talk to you. Great. Thank you. That's a wrap. There's another successful episode of the Fractional C-Suite Retreat. See our show notes and more episodes at fractionalcsuitretreat.com. This podcast is sponsored by YorCmo, helping organizations grow, save time and money with better marketing strategy and fractional execution. Visit them at YorCmo.com. YorCmo.com. Spelled wrong on purpose.