Strengthening Your Franchise - Brandon Cullen - Fractional C-Suite Retreat - Episode # 040

Growing a business is hard, but it does not have to be.

Once a week, we take a break from the hustle and bustle in business to talk about innovations and what's new in the C-suite. This is the Fractional C-Suite Retreat, and I'm Joseph Frost. Pull up a seat at the fire, grab a drink, smoke a cigar, and just join me as we relax, learn, and get inspired. This retreat is sponsored by Your CMO, helping organizations grow with better marketing strategy.

Welcome today's guest. He's a former pro athlete. Uh, he's developed a more approachable and intelligent way to train the everyday fitness enthusiast that has seen success with franchises from coast to coast. He's host of the podcast Playing Guilty and co-founder and chief concept officer at Metabolic. Welcome, Brandon Cullen. How are you doing, Brandon?

Great. Thanks. Thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to this.

Yeah, you may be my first pro athlete on the podcast.

Well, we were kind of just average at that whole pro hockey thing, but yeah, it gave us, it gave us some access to the world we're in today. I'm sure we'll, we'll somewhat touch on that. But yeah, 20 years ago, another lifetime ago, I guess you could have called me that, but we're doing different things today.

Yeah, well, it's something to be grateful for, and certainly an accomplishment to celebrate. We can chat about that in a little bit. But let's open up. I like to ask all my guests just a simple question to kick things off. And, you know, what's an opportunity that you're excited about or energized about right now that you think other business owners, C-suite leaders, and fractional professionals might be interested in learning about?

Yeah, it's probably the unpopular thing to say right now. I know the I know COVID had us thinking differently, but in my opinion, you're starting to see the world default back to a lot of things that I always believed was going to be there. I know a big percentage of many industries are chasing this this new digital version of life, whether it be digital fitness or even work from home. But, but in my opinion, the biggest opportunity today in every industry is people that can bring back human connection and do it well. I don't think the race to the bottom at digital is any version of opportunity. I think it's the complete opposite. It is the restaurants making their way back with the right menu and the right staff. It's in-person gyms offering that in-person camaraderie. And for some people, and this one I think will take the longest, I think it's reestablishing what office life looks like. So yeah, I mean, I think it's the opposite of what everyone's talking about. I think your biggest opportunity lies in bringing people back to in-person.

I think that's interesting. We have a global workforce and the idea of in-person is quite challenging in some, some, in traditional thinking maybe. And I'm curious what your take is. What we've tried to do is start prioritizing some in-person annuals or quarterlies if we can get, depending upon the location, our teams together. And that thinking team side, team, internal team, not necessarily external customer-facing. And that's been helpful. And when we've done it, I would say the connections have been stronger than ever and commitments as follows that as well. So how do you reconcile what you're saying with, with these geographical barriers that might be true and in place?

Well, that's the part of the conversation that I don't think people are talking about enough out loud. This has always existed. I mean, COVID was an accelerant and gave traditional office workers a bigger voice, but a lot of people have been working this hybrid environment for a long time. And I think that will always exist. I mean, to relate it to my industry, there was always some version of at-home fitness. It just got, it was done better. It's sexier, it has better hardware, it's worked with software. And I think you're seeing that in traditional life too, but it's almost as if there's a segment that is just pushing so hard against the other portion of in-person collaboration. I know when I meet with my team, we will accomplish more in 2 8-hour days than we will over 80 Teams or Zoom calls. So it's almost like everybody is overplaying their own bias. I think there are people that love to work from home, and I think there always have been. And I think there are CEOs or leaders of companies that prefer seeing their people in person. And I think at the end of the day, what you're gonna get is the leader of the organization is somewhat gonna dictate what happens to their organization. But I also don't think it is that different than what we've always been experiencing. I just think some voices have a stronger argument or maybe just a louder argument. I mean, you can argue the productivity side both ways now. There's as much data saying how much people are wasting at home or just working more versus being in the office. And I just wish it wasn't so dogmatic, right? I think you should apply for the job that speaks to you and that might be in-person driven organization, or it might be a very inclusive work from anywhere organization. And I guess that's the beauty, right? You can, you can somewhat choose the lifestyle you want.

Yeah. And it's certainly more transparent that you have to make that decision now than ever before. It may have been a bit of a surprise of what the culture is like when you're in the organization. You thought you'd have more flexibility to come and go as you please, and you find out, no, you're locked down from 8 to 5 or vice versa. Well, now it's, it's almost part of the interviewing process. It's like, how do I work? What's the expectations? How often do I have to come in? Or do I have to come in at all? Or what does remote mean?

You know, the creepy thing that I hope it doesn't backfire for the at-home people is some of this technology that is now being released with like keyboard strokes and how active you are during the day and people tracking your productivity almost in a Big Brother kind of way. I mean, You know, I could see it going a lot of different ways, but I just think, I mean, man, every part of today is somewhat divisive, right? And I think everybody is really sticking to their side of the argument, whether it's politically or work-life balance side of things. But I mean, everyone is just put— they're digging their feet in and are unwilling to let go on both sides of the coin.

Yeah, I just saw an article within the last couple days about a court case regarding students and the requirement of having their computers on or their cameras on assessing the environment in the room while they were taking tests and how the court has judged that they can't require that. That's an invasion of privacy. Interesting. So, you know, you can see how if you wanted to make sure that there was no extra like notepad or people in the room giving the answers, why they would want to do that. But they've said they suggest, at least in that ruling, that you can't. So there's these keyboard monitoring devices and screen capture stuff. It is interesting to see where that ends up from a privacy standpoint.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think, I don't know if it's generational or just, or maybe we are the same old guys bitching about what's happening and back in the day kind of making these back in the day statements. But I, you know, I do know that we deal with a lot of millennial generation in the, in the gym industry. And also now we're looking at the next generation and the next generation, they do their research, they know what they want, they come in with specific demands. And also, like I said, they've researched whether it be the product or service they are looking at or the career they want to go into. And they want it now. They want professionalism and they want respect now. So Again, I think very well I could be the old person complaining about this now. And actually, complaining is the wrong word, acknowledging it. But yeah, I think we— it's amazing how everything has changed and yet how nothing has changed. Yeah. Is what I've really noticed from COVID Us being in the, the boutique fitness space, in-person group fitness, we were literally told you are going to die if you don't offer a digital and hybrid solution. Well, our company system-wide has numbers well above before COVID and we have no clients asking for a digital option. And what, what, what was easy to challenge or defend was when the whole world was saying you're in trouble. And I'm thinking like, you know what, I'm pretty confident people are going to go back to live music. I feel like people will visit restaurants. And I do think riding an expensive bike with an iPad on it is going to get old. I hate to say I told you so, but I've been speaking the same thing for 3 years. And again, it's almost like in our position, we were put, we were pushed into a corner. You had the world literally yelling at you, evolve or die. And it just was never that. I never believed it. So no one, I shouldn't say no one, but I'm not wishing harm on the digital version of fitness. Whatever gets you to the best fitness program in the world is one that gets you moving 4 or 5 days a week. Like literally, I, like I could say, hey, we offer the best group fitness in the world, but if you're not doing it, it's not the best for you. So I, I'm, I'm rooting for Peloton to make it back. I'm rooting for digital fitness. I'm rooting for this hybrid thing, and I'm rooting for this in all aspects of life. I just wish everyone could relax a bit and realize there's a lot of ways to do this thing called life.

Yeah. My experience pre-COVID, I was going pretty regularly, regularly to a yoga studio. And I probably picked up yoga a few, 3, 4 years ago. So not real familiar with it, but I enjoyed the exercise and it, and the mindfulness that comes with the exercise and that particular approach. And then when COVID hit, my instructor, she's, she was panicking like most people in your industry, like, oh my God, what I need to do.. And I quickly helped her set up a Zoom session, you know, not too difficult. We'd been hybrid before people were hybrid. So got her a little audio mic for her lapel and, and wireless and got her Zoom. And so for a couple, for a year at least, it was Zoom only for her. I was, it was kind of the way she was able to survive that, that downtime. And then she started opening up when she could and, and Now it's, it's a hybrid experience. She has a large number, you know, percentage-wise of people that still choose to livestream from their living rooms and a percentage like, like me who wants to come in. I can't, I don't get motivated in my living room to work out, so I need to be able to go to a gym or a studio or something. That's just me and how I'm built. My wife, on the other hand, she loves to watch the replays at 5:30 in the morning the next day because she doesn't want to get going and drive over there and come back. So two different people, but the hybrid approach serves us both. And I think that's interesting.

Yeah.

And isn't that beautiful to have options? Like, I think that's the thing. We've always had these options and now it's become a dogmatic choice that you have to do. It's always been there. I mean, I've made some hilarious statements that, you know, the, the P90X of 20 years ago is just now on a mirror on your wall. It's, it's, it's the same consumer that wanted that convenience in their living room, whether it, whether it's the busy parents, whether it's someone that doesn't want to have to put on a show to go to a certain gym, or whether it's a person that me similar to you that needs to somewhat separate home from maybe going to work and also getting my workout in because there's something to me about stepping into the environment of work that allows me to flip that switch or stepping into a gym atmosphere with certain like-minded people around that has me shift my mindset. I actually, I really value that 10 to 15-minute drive home when I have to go from being the founder of the company to a partner to my, to my girl JJ or to my kids to be dad. Like that 15-minute separation is the way I flip the switch and compartmentalize. And when I say compartmentalize, for me, that's the healthy way to do it because I could work all day long. And my relationships would struggle. My relationships, yeah, my relationships, if I couldn't turn it off and had that downtime, I wouldn't be able to do it. And for me, that's kind of like the gym. When I step in a gym, I shift into a different position and mindset as to being dad or being partner or being business owner. And I think for me anyways, I like the option to adapt to my environment. Yeah.

Well, let's talk about your environment at the gym a little bit. I'm curious how, you know, your experience as a pro athlete has impacted the franchise, the business that you created. Is it for pros only, or is it taking the best and simplifying it so that the average Joe, no pun intended, can, can participate at a pro level, or hack some of the, the best outta my exercise routine. So explain a little bit about it.

No, it's exact, it's exactly that. We, we don't train Tom Brady, we train the Brady Toms of the world, just everyday people. Now, what, what was lacking in pop culture fitness was high-level strength and conditioning along with the, the coaching of that. For everyday people. There are a lot of, I mean, our space is crowded, it, it's super crowded. But, and to the, to the uneducated consumer, and when I say the word uneducated, I don't mean that like clients are stupid. What I mean is that they don't come from exercise science background degrees and they're just people that are looking to get a sweat at the end of the day or at the start of the day with a good playlist, they had some, some, some trainers that they like. Like, that's— we get to work with these kind of people. Um, so like when, when the average consumer jumps on a website or jumps on an Instagram account, they, they see a kettlebell and they see some people smiling and sweating and, and they see these things, everything kind of looks the same. Well, I, I can confidently say that we provide professional level strength and conditioning to the masses. And we are very strength biased versus very cardio fat loss biased. And, you know, I'm not gonna go down the benefits of that. I think people know why strength training is important. I think the big thing is, is we have some of our, the big national competitors that everybody would know these names. They position themselves as athletic training programs or strength and conditioning programs from a marketing side of things. But the truth is, is they're more so like a, a big box athletic conditioning boot camp, right? We move weight. I mean, like, we can train everything from beginner people to professional athletes. We have that kind of weight and we have that kind of coaching ability amongst our trainers. So what we are known for is strength bias interval training, and we're very much known for the structure and the accountability that is applied to, applied to that in a group, group model. Which, and I know it doesn't sound too different, but who I compete with, it's a lot of rah-rah, a lot of high-fives, but really not a lot of substance happening to make that client better on a daily basis. You know, as I say that out loud, I'm like, oh, you sound like such an asshole, this or that. But I mean, like, that kind of is what our industry is. And there's no other way for me to actually say that. And that's what we're working towards is giving a completely unique experience in the pop culture group fitness arena.

So as an outsider looking in, are my outcomes gonna be different? How are my outcomes going to be different if I, you know, go down your lane and, and do the strength bias versus maybe the more known other biases out there physically? Like as an individual, what's the, Different.

Yes. So we've been talking, we've been trying to kind of coin this term like aging athletically. And unfortunately, like, you know, we're, we're given a lot of misinformation about you need more and more cardio and, and more and more weight loss and more and more miles as you get older, like protect that heart and all this stuff. And it couldn't be further from the truth, right? Like as, as men and women age, it's Strength is the base that keeps you upright as gravity is pushing down on you. Men, we have— it's the thing that keeps our testosterone firing once we get over 35 and into 40 and beyond. Women, bone density issues, pushing back or resistance training is what's going to allow you to thrive as you age versus just kind of survive. I, I'm not against cardio and trust me, we do a, we do plenty of cardio within our program. But as, as you're getting older, more miles on your tires is not what's gonna allow you to feel good as aging, like rest, recovery, resistance. That's how Again, that's how you'll thrive as you, um, as you pass 40 and get into, you know, 40, 50, 60, and building that base 20 through 40 is, is a smart thing to do.

Yeah. What, uh, what's the number of stores you have, or studios, or what do you call them, gyms?

Yeah, we always try— we just call them gyms, but, um, people call them units, studios, all these things, you know what I mean? Um, so next year is going to be a huge year for us, very excited. We committed to scale a couple years back and it's all coming to fruition right now. We have about, we have 21 units open as of today. Not sure when this recording will post. We should open another 4 to 5 by the end of 2022, and we have another 65 under contract and in development as we speak. You know, some of those are part of multi-unit deals in markets that will take a couple years to get those third, fourth, and fifth unit open. But next year I think is the big opening year. I really think we'll open 10 to 20. We'll just have to see how real estate goes. But I think next year we're going to make some noise and that's where a lot of the recognition will come. We have some great momentum and we have some awesome people within the system and we have some big markets coming online. So Next week will be open Brooklyn, New York, which is massive. We're opening a 5th DC location on an iconic street in DC, 14th Street, where all of the, the big fitness brands are. Denver is going to come online. So we get, we have some major markets that will just make that conversation bigger and bigger and bigger. So yeah, really excited.

Yeah, I'm excited. When are you going to get one into Omaha, Nebraska? Anytime soon. Any help getting one in Omaha, Nebraska?

I can.

Well, yeah.

And I mean, I like the market, you know what I mean? Like, I'd have to do the research, but I think like it probably could tolerate a couple. We're not greedy with our growth schedule. At all, to be honest. We have a basic approach. We think if we can isolate the top 50 markets in the United States, and based on everything from psychographics to population density to all those good things and basic demographics, we'll put anywhere from 1 to 5 units in those 50 major markets. And that gets you to 200 great units pretty quick without being greedy. I mean, we're not, we're not coming out of the gate saying, hey, we're going to open 1,000 of these. But I think 250 great units is a very— it's a very attainable goal without being greedy. And I mean, we're— I think by the end of the year we'll be at 100 under contract. So we're creeping towards that, that initial goal of 200 and And once you get there, right, you somewhat, at that point, you earn the right to somewhat chance other markets because you're somewhat of a noun. People know you. It's kind of like if you think of like the big guys, like an Orangetheory, an F45, you could drop that anywhere in North America right now and people know who that is. We are just earning the rights for people to know our name right now. So I mean, I am so pumped about 2023.

Really am. Yeah, that's exciting. What do you— if you look back on the last couple of years when you made that intention, what are 2 or 3 things that stand out to you? Really big milestones or ahas that allowed for you to be at this level of trajectory today?

It would have— you know what, it would have dated back even before the partnership. So we partnered with a company called Z Growth Partners and they are, you could look at them as a, like almost like a franchise accelerant in a way. They have multiple brands in their portfolio, but essentially they bring experience, capital and also just background operational skills. So 5 years ago, let's just use a round number. I'll say 5 years ago, my partner and I, we had two visions. We're like, listen, I think the two of us, we can probably do this because we did everything. We opened up 10 units on our own, did the whole franchising thing, and we're like, you know what, just the two of us, we could probably get to 20 fairly easy and maybe 30. But at that point, we're really going to have to staff up to do this correctly and probably even much before that, from what I know now. And then the flip side of things, we thought if we just kept doing things right and putting out a professional kind of like experience, we knew we'd one day sit in a room with some smart people. And that's, that's what happened. And let's, let's look at that multiple at 20, the two of us, or 200 as a team. And I was happy with both. My partner Kirk was happy with both as long as the original vision stayed dangerously close to that original vision. And, you know, one of the coolest things that I get to do now, and I don't mind admitting to this, when you go to a certain level of scale, there are things you have to tighten up. There is a version of becoming cookie cutter that you have to do with your systems. And I think kind of where I sit on our team today is my goal is to make sure that 90% of how it started stays in place. And I find that to be a really cool challenge when you're— when you're bouncing from— like, think of this. In the next 2 weeks, we will open Brooklyn, New York. And we'll open McAllen, Texas. You couldn't think of two different places and they're gonna have two different types of consumers. They're gonna have two different types of ways of living. Like everything you have to think about needs to, to a degree, cater to that environment. But I still want to make sure that Metabolic feels a hell of a lot like Metabolic wherever you are. And I find that to be a real fun challenge.

Yeah. So like when you go to Asian countries and enter a McDonald's, they're serving rice on the side instead of fries.

Yeah.

I don't think your customer where they're at, right?

Yeah. I don't, I don't know if we'll go that far with changing the meat of, of the program, but I think, think about music, think about tone, think about ways to advertise, the way to attract the avatar that may live in this city versus that city, or where do we find your core consumer in this city that has less of them versus that city? I kind of find that, that puzzle is a unique case-by-case basis that's always fun to try to figure out. Yeah.

And I imagine as you continue to grow, the insights will become more apparent what works in which environment and what doesn't, what music is completely played at all locations and what music can never be played in this location. And there'll be a lot of that learning that comes, which is exciting too and help you continue to scale.

Yeah. And The one thing that I do think our brand has a unique asset is, remember I talked about that crowded playground that I get to hang out in? So crowded, think about this. When you think of, I'm gonna just go down the line, hot yoga, cycle studios, The boot camp kind of style studios like an F45 or an Orangetheory, Pilates, all this, all these people, right? To a degree, they're all chasing the same consumer. It's usually 90% women. They're promoting weight loss and calories, calories, calories. Us, we're saying we're chasing the high performer that likes strength and structure and accountability. Our facilities near sellout at 300 members, and I just have to take a, a rifle approach and listen to this consumer. If you're over here with the masses, this crowded space, you somewhat have to take a shotgun approach and appeal to a lot of people. You have to listen to a lot of dialogue and a lot of comments, and you gotta make a lot of different personalities happy. Not to mention everyone's chasing that same group. So I'm happy to admit that that group over there probably has more people in North America in it than this high performer or just dedicated go-getter. So remove the fucking word go, a performer. I've screwed up with that. People thinking that that needs to be a professional athlete. Really, it's just a mindset of an individual that kind of grabs life by the balls and goes after it. That's who I'm, that's who I'm trying to chase. I think in any city in North America to find 250 to 300 high performers is a doable task versus having to find 5 to 1,000 people over here that everybody's chasing. So hey, they, they seem to be doing it well. I like our approach. I feel more confident in that approach.

Is it, and we'll go on a different topic after this, but this, I'm just curious about all, all, all that you do. Is it similar to CrossFit than approach or is CrossFit in that other genre as well?

Well, we came from the CrossFit world long before CrossFit was even cool. So, and I know it very, very well. We're talking mid-2000s to like late 2008, 2009. What we have created was built off of what was lacking. CrossFit started as a very like when we first started training people in CrossFit, it was professional athletes, collegiate athletes, ex-military, like highly capable people that were used to this level of stimulus. And boom, it hit pop culture and all of a sudden you actually had like people coming outta Jazzercise and they were underneath a barbell day one. And we were like, yeah, I don't know if, but in my opinion, at that point it's all you had, right? Because the next thing down here was like an athletic conditioning class at Bally's, which was, was awful, or your YMCA. So we started thinking about like, where is this thing right in the middle that is a much more, much, that is much more scalable and approachable for the everyday person. And we've been on this, this 10-year sprint trying to create it and just now we're just fine-tuning that model where now, you know, Metabolic's become its own methodology. It's, it's its own thing now. But yeah, so we used to get compared to CrossFit 5 years ago, but, but they've kind of peaked, right? And don't hate me, CrossFit community, I'm sorry, but you know, you— it has peaked. They're not, they're not in the pop culture conversation as much anymore. Funny enough, now we have to deal with, in my opinion, not as strong programs and not as strong concepts that are dominating pop culture fitness right now. So we're more saying how we're different from this over here versus being compared to CrossFit anymore.

Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, I like what you said too, a 10-year sprint. And I can't tell you next year, you know, you're gonna be on the COVID of Inc. magazine as this fastest growing franchise, overnight success.

That's right.

And little will they know, you know, this is a 10-year journey. It'll be 11, 12 before you have that overnight success. But that story is so real.

Yeah, it is. And I mean, I think we are— so I'm standing in our flagship location. That's still where our primary offices are. And we, we run the whole franchise operations out of our conference side of it. But we will be coming up on 11 years in this space. In Charlotte, North Carolina. This— we opened on Halloween, funny enough, like 11 years ago. So this Halloween will be— it will be our 11th year. And it's kind of cool. We just— to give a shout out to my Charlotte team that I've always thought has made me look good. And what I mean by that is I get to be the guy that's on the podcast and I get to be the vocal person. And I also have a business partner that needs none of this. You know, he has zero ego. And so I'm always the voice.. So people relate a lot of it to me, but I think my team in Charlotte has always allowed me to be in this position because of how professional they've treated this market. And we just got named the top sweat-worthy gym— is the big award— in Charlotte for the 10th year in a row. And if you know this city, which is arguably the strongest fitness market per capita in the United States, to be on top for 10 years, you got to have some amazing people doing that because we are a, we are a cyclical business. There's always someone new coming on the block like it is a grind. So I've always, always had an amazing staff here, right from the trainers all the way up to general managers. So yeah, I can never say enough good things about my staff and the city in general.

Well, that's a good transition because I want to talk a little bit about leadership. And so someone who's been in a leadership position the last 10 years and obviously doing some good work in that area, how would you define leadership?

This could be tough for me because I used to look at it as leading by example. Like being the guy that led by example. I unfortunately— so part of my hockey career was it was ended by a career-ending concussion. So I, I deal with those kind of shitty daily symptoms and I have for 10 years. I had to learn to be able to not be able to lead by example. Because I can't actually, just the way my head is, to oversimplify it, I can't handle the stimulus or the stress of our workouts. I require more rest to get down to a baseline heart rate so I don't trigger my symptoms. So I can't be a poster boy. I can't be in a class leading by example. So me, my version of leadership 10 years ago would've been shut up and lead by example, do all the right things and let people follow you. But now I sit in a position not being able to do that. And I think it is surrounding yourself with great people and in a perfect world, giving them the freedom to fuck up and not micromanage them, but also demand a lot out of them. I think there's a weird— we're in a weird time right now with a lot of the dialogue and literature I'm reading where Employees don't want to be micromanaged, but they also don't want to be come down hard on when they screw up. And you can't have it both ways. I'm completely fine with whenever the hell you work, but deliver. If I ask you to do something, get it done and you won't be micromanaged. So yeah, for me, it's doing the due diligence upfront and putting people in roles where they excel at. If anything, I think my partner and I have tried to get good at is not putting people in roles that they don't like, you know, that doesn't get them up in the morning, that they're not excited about. Maybe they're just not good at. It's okay to not be good at stuff, right? I'm shit at a lot of things, but I try to avoid doing those things. So I know I jumped around a bit there, but I think leadership is putting people in the right, in the right roles, giving them enough freedom to screw up, but, but, but also still hold them accountable when they do.

Yeah, that was great. When you're in an environment, what does that successful leadership environment feel like?

Oh, you know what's interesting? The gym, my world's a little bit different, right? Because you have a mixture of contract employees and about 2 salaries per unit. So it's very easy to manage the kind of general manager relationship and potentially lead person on the floor relationship. But then a contract employee is a contract employee, and there's so much you can do with that, right? So I think in my position is making sure that those two positions, the key ones, are very, very good and everything are filled with the right kind of people. And then I think a lot of the things trickle down in the right way below those positions.. But then I can also look at my close— one of my closest friends here in Charlotte owns a booming coffee franchise. And one of the things that he just amazes me with, his name's James Yoder, and he owns not just coffee and Night Swim Coffee if you ever want to look this brand up. But one of the things that he always amazes me with is his ability to manage people. And deal with having the empathy to deal with multiple personalities. And it always blows me away because I have never excelled at this. I was used to leading by example, and that's easy. You kind of show up, you do the work, and hopefully things fall into place. But people that have that skill set of managing people very, very well. It's a beautiful thing. It's wild. It's something I just love to see. Never been great at it. Been a good leader.

Haven't always been a good manager. Yeah. When you look at yourself or other leaders, what are 3 of the characteristics that show up to you as leading to their success?

Contributing? All the people that I respect have a certain level of grit. And you know what? I— it's— you know what's so funny? You can hear me trying to be measured with this answer. Like, right now I'm dancing around my head as what is the politically right thing to say because of how how fucking sensitive we are today. But for me, all the successes that I have seen in all of the companies that I look up to, there's a certain level of grit and tenacity and ego. I know, like, can you believe I just said that word ego? Yeah, ego sometimes needs to be part of it. Moves the needle, right? And you can't have too much of it, but you definitely need some of it. And I don't have a clean answer for you. The people I look up to are some tenacious go-getters that, yeah, they're the type of people that really impress me. But also, to being that myself, where I need to learn from is my empathetic friend. I don't need more ego in our company. I need to learn from this other side of it that I respect. Yeah.

What I heard from you was at the end there, you know, the grit, the tenacity and ego is a component of it. But what I also heard from you was authentic respect for the empathy that your friend has and his ability to work with his team. And then even before that, I heard you say, You know, a good leader surrounds him or herself with the team and supports that team and allows that team to be given the space to be and do their thing and then be held accountable to that. And so all those things, I believe, go into good leadership also. I think that's a nice summary of what I heard you say.

Yeah.

And the other thing too, I got to be cautious about even like Speaking to work from home or not work from home, speaking to the, the ego side of the tenacity and the grit, right? Like I've been in somewhat of a— I went from professional athletics into not a cubicle, you know, like I'm like I'm standing today in Lululemon ABC pants and a t-shirt and running shoes, right? So for me to have a huge opinion on corporate, life, I, you know, I can't really speak to how much someone may love or hate that office. I love my office, but my office is a lot different than, you know, all of North America's offices. So I'm, I'm kind of keenly aware to, I don't want to speak to what I don't know, but I do think I have a good gauge on like just, just humans. I can read people pretty well. And yeah, yeah, I mean, I think that's the way I would, kind of sum it up is I just want to make sure I don't overstep in something that I really don't know. I'm opinionated enough, but for me to speak to some of these things would probably be an ignorant thing to do as well.

Yeah, understood. We all have experiences with leadership and it may mean different things to different people. But our experience with what makes a good leader or what doesn't make a good leader, I think everybody has a common understanding of that, but with nuances from where they come from.

Well, and let me add to that because I didn't really sum it up. So me as an athlete and now me as a— just in the, I guess, the general workforce. Whoever I'm accountable to, I want a kick in the ass when I screw up. I'm not bringing my problems to work from outside of work. I want to be held accountable. I want to know when I'm wrong, and I want to be put in my place if I'm not doing things up to par by my teammates. I'm me.. And I realize that would be an ignorant thing to say that everybody needs that same working environment as me, but that's what I want. So yeah, that's, that's where I struggle is I know exactly what I want. I know the way I'd like to deliver it, but I also know there's a lot of different things going on with each individual. Yeah.

And now that you're looking at opening up 65, 100 new units or gyms or locations, you're looking at 65 to 100 new leaders or teams of leaders even. How do you take 90% of the vision you have for leadership and, and scale that out to all the new opportunities that you're looking at?

Well, I think you, you control what you can control.. And there are some specific things in franchising you could control. You can say anything from the workout that is on the floor to your membership offerings to the type of music that plays into your facilities to— yeah, there's a number of things you can control, but you don't get to go hire that local GM. You can make strong suggestions, you can talk about what has worked and what hasn't, but at the end of the day, franchisees Yeah, they're entrepreneurs within a system. You know, they are business owners within a system. So you don't go in to run their business for them. So the best thing you can do in our position from scale is make sure you take on the right people in the franchise agreement. Make sure you go into the right market that will support your core customer so you don't have to change too, too much to appeal to someone else. And then, which is probably one of the more challenging things in franchising, is having the right third-party vendors to streamline things. Everything from signage companies to real estate consulting to your equipment providers, your millwork in your lobbies. Like a lot of people, you think of the gym business and you think of doing some squats, right? There's, there's quite a bit that, that goes into this thing we do. And I find the, vendor relationships, right? Because now you're outside of your organization working with a different leadership, a different way of doing things. And sometimes for me, that's one of the hardest things to manage. So, but yeah, if I was to, if I was to say control the person, control the market, and control your vendors is about the strongest thing you can do as the franchisor. Yeah.

Well, what do you like to do on your free time, Brandon?

I'm a music guy. Um, yeah, so I see a ton of live music. I travel a ton for live music. Usually when I'm booking travel, it's, it's built around live music.

So I— free time, I love—

what are some of the bands, uh, or the shows you like to go See anything? So I'm going to Portugal in November to see an artist named Bonnie Bear with my partner JJ. And funny enough, the coffee guy I mentioned, him and his wife, we're going to do 7 days in Portugal together. Awesome. But yeah, like, this might, this might be funny. Being an athlete, I think I think I was a competitor that grew up in Canada, and obviously you're given a pair of skates in Canada and all of a sudden I became a hockey player. And now that competitive edge is filled with where can I take this business and how far can I take this thing? But when I get home at night, I'd rather throw on a record and pop a bottle of red wine than watch any sports on TV. So a lot of times people are like, what, what do you mean you don't watch sports? I'm like, I don't know, it's just I've, I've always been wired a little bit different than your, I think your traditional athlete. But yeah, I mean, gimme a bottle of red and a good record and I'm good to go.

Yeah, that's, you need that down, you know, that downtime that to recharge. I was in Portugal last year, I spent, oh yeah, I went on a trip to Switzerland with some buddies and I had, well, long story short, I booked the wrong tickets. So I had a 2-day layover in Portugal as a result by myself, and I had an awesome time. I was in Lisbon only, so I just spent a couple days. It was beautiful country. People were nice, food was amazing. It was, it was terrific. And I just had a friend go through there this summer and he had an amazing time with his family. They went up and down the coast to Porto and had a blast.

So you'll enjoy it, I'm sure. Yeah. And that's our trip we're going to do. We're going to do 3 in Lisbon. Then we're gonna jump over to Porto for 3, and then we are coming back for that last night in Lisbon. So yeah, real excited. But yeah, that's me in a nutshell.

I, I love, love music and yeah, what a great way to get your travel in too. Listening, you know, following a, I guess an artist you like and, and getting some travel in at the same time. I'm not familiar with that particular band. I'll have to check it out. We just went to the Lumineers concert in Omaha a couple— They put on a good show. Yeah, it was last week. My son had purchased the tickets in 2020 and it got canceled. That took them— it was— they said it was 1,000 days before they were supposed to play when they came back. And he's now in college. So he couldn't see them. And someone else had offered me up tickets. So I went with a friend and I texted him afterwards like, it was a good show. Too bad you couldn't make it. He goes, yeah. He said, I don't know if they're that good in concert. They may be more just, you know, chilling out music. But I thought they were pretty good in concert. It's— yeah, their style is a little laid back, you know?

Now, you know what? I think they're good. I love their music. My only issue with them is they've been rewriting the same song for a few albums now. But Yeah, it's funny. Talk about even like tonight. So there we may go see— this is kind of a funny light up— the Goo Goo Dolls are playing here, which will be a funny nostalgic '90s throwback. But also too, one of my favorite bands, Blue October, is opening for them. So we might last minute hit that show up in Charlotte tonight. We'll see how, see how busy Friday treats me and then we'll make a game time decision.

Well, I've got Friday Night Lights. My daughter's a cheerleader and we're going to the football, the high school football game. So that's nice.

Sunday night. Yeah.

Well, that'll be fun. Yeah. Well, Brandon, it's been terrific. I really appreciate your time. We kind of dove deep into the exercise science and franchising, which was fun for me to listen to and I'm sure for our listeners.

So thank you for your time. I appreciate it. It was nice to have an interview go in a couple different ways. You know, sometimes you get a little bit bored doing your standard interviews, so I appreciate the well-targeted randomness of some of the questions.

That was fun. Well, I like to tell my guests, I don't tell my audience this, but I'm pretty selfish. I ask the questions that I'm curious about, and generally that works out.

Sometimes it doesn't. That was great.

I really appreciate the time today. And thanks to the audience. We look forward to seeing you next week. And if you need to catch Brandon, you want to reach out to him, we'll have his information in the show notes. And you guys can connect offline, but we'll talk to you next week.

And that's a wrap. There's another successful episode of the Fractional C-Suite Retreat. See our show notes and more episodes at fractionalcsuitretreat.com. This podcast is is sponsored by Your CMO, helping organizations grow, save time and money with better marketing strategy and fractional execution. Visit them at Y-O-R-C-M-O dot com. Your CMO dot com.

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