Trust and Flexibility - Fractional C-Suite Retreat - Episode # 012

Growing a business is hard, but it does not have to be.

Once a week, we take a break from the hustle and bustle in business to talk about innovations and what's new in the C-suite. This is the Fractional C-Suite Retreat, and I'm Joseph Frost. Pull up a seat at the fire, grab a drink, smoke a cigar, and just join me as we relax, learn, and get inspired. This retreat is sponsored by Your CMO, helping organizations grow with better marketing strategy.

Welcome to the Fractional C-Suite Retreat. Today's guest is someone I've been wanting to have on for a while. She's a really strong communicator, enjoys the challenge of meeting new people, is the 40 Under 40 or a 40 Under 40 awardee from Minneapolis-St. Paul Business Journal in 2014. We won't date you too much. And founder and CEO at Authentic Brands, Jennifer Zick. Welcome to the show. Thank you for coming.

Thank you, Joseph. I'm delighted to be here.

Yeah, I'm really excited. I've been watching your business grow over the last several years. And it's just the things you do. It's been amazing to watch. And it's all top notch. And I'm super excited that you're here to talk a little bit about your experience as a fractional CMO and your team.

Thank you. I'm excited to have this conversation with someone who speaks my love language.

Yeah, exactly. So the question I like to start the show with is kind of a simple one, but It gets into some of the meat of what we do as fractionals. And the question is simply, what are, what are, what's an opportunity that you see, or opportunities that executives on the C-suite may not be seeing right now?

Yeah, well, I'm going to contextualize my answer within the type of work that we do. And you've already introduced me and my team. And there are some parallels between the work you do and the work my team does as fractional CMOs, or chief marketing officers. So when we enter into conversations with the C-suite like yourself, we're usually talking with CEOs, owners, visionary leaders of growing businesses. For us, that landscape is usually the $5 to $100 million business. And in those conversations, um, there are so many common themes that happen. And I think one big thing that executives are missing right now is they're getting caught up in the swirl of all the different tactics and things they could be doing from a marketing standpoint. That sometimes they're missing the fundamentals and the attachment to the big picture and how marketing supports them from the most strategic vantage point. And so I would love to talk with you today about how executives can be sure not to miss what's most important and most essential when it comes to the role that marketing should be playing in their business.

Yeah, that's awesome. Well, yeah, you're speaking my love language too. That's a good conversation about it. And we talk a lot of other fractional professionals on this show, but when I get a marketer on, it's extra special for me. So what are some of those fundamentals that, that just have to be there in your mind? What do you see?

Well, I'll back into that question a little bit with walking with you through kind of where a conversation often starts as I meet with C-suite leaders. It's been really fun for me recently. I joined Vistage as a network for CEOs. And so in addition to our clients and prospects, I also get to meet with my peers who are CEOs of a wide variety of industries. And it's amazing how much they are interested in and want to talk about marketing, but they're also overwhelmed by and confused by marketing. And at Authentic Brand, we lovingly say that we help great businesses to overcome random acts of marketing, right? And confidently take the next right step in growth. And this is how a lot of CEOs feel and CFOs and their COOs is that They're doing the marketing things, but they know they're somewhat random. They're not sure if those activities are being directed by something more strategic or toward the right outcomes. And so I like to say, you know, a lot of those CEO leaders are gonna start by asking questions. They're asking really relevant, thoughtful, timely questions like, where should we be on social media? Do we need to have multiple social channels? Which ones are the right social channels? Do I need to know about Instagram and TikTok?

Talk.

And, and I like to just start by slowing them down and learning about their big purpose for existing as a business first, right. And if you can start with your purpose and your why and the, the reason you exist in the world, and what is your life-changing purpose and North Star, and then you move down through some of the foundation and fundamental components of marketing, the tactics will kind of start to become evident as you, as you move through that process. But the marketing landscape is changing so quickly, and there's so much noise that it tends to turn the conversation upside down. It starts with tactical questions when really we need to constantly anchor back to the strategic. So that's me backing into your question of what are some of those fundamentals, the foundations. And I like to say that marketing is simple. It's just not easy.

Yeah.

It's not easy because the landscape of tactics and tools and technologies is so vast. When you and I started our careers, you mentioned I was a 40 Under 40. I'm no longer under 40. I just kind of made it under the radar. So I'm not a young, I'm not a spring chicken anymore. But when I started my career, there was a relatively small marketing toolbox, right? Like As a, as a marketer 20 years ago, most of what we focused on was advertising, events, PR, right? And mostly paid media. And with the onset of the internet and digital, the landscape has just exploded in just one marketer's career lifespan, right? And so now there's hundreds and thousands of tools and tactics that you can employ. And so how to narrow that down has gotten to be really confusing. For executives making investment decisions in people and skills and resources. So I'll finally get to the punchline here. When we talk about the foundational pieces of marketing, when it comes down from that, that key, what is your purpose for existence? Then in my way of articulating this, I say there's two more questions to ask underneath that. It's who do we want to matter to? And why should we matter to them? Right? And then how do we intersect their world in a way that's meaningful and relevant? And when we get to that point of intersecting their world, instead of then what do we pitch them, it's how do we help them, right? It's how do we help them. And then underneath that, you start to deploy the aspects of your marketing execution to do that. So that's the highest level. And there's a lot that comes into the foundation from then how you shape your messaging and content strategy. What is the customer journey? And then what are the KPIs and metrics that help you know if you're making a meaningful connection with your stakeholders?

Yeah, and I think you did a really nice job there of articulating the value of a CMO in the conversation versus a more tactical marketing specialist. Because if you ask that same question, or executives will ask that same question to niche agency owners or specialists or freelancers even, and it'll just stay very tactical. Oh, well, you should be, should be doing AdWords, you should be doing digital, you definitely should be doing email, when the real question is, why are we doing this in the first place? And that's exactly the right place to start. And that's what a strategic-minded CMO brings. And in our businesses, we're able to do that in a fractional way, which now makes that specialist, that fractional CMO specialist, accessible to the masses, if you will. It's, it's a really nice value prop, and most people don't understand it because they didn't know it was available to their size business.

And until recently, it really wasn't, Joseph. Like, I talk about 20 years ago, 20 years ago, fractional was a completely brand new revolutionary concept. And it really began on the finance side, and the operating side of the business first, as growing businesses recognized that they really did need Chief financial expertise, but they didn't need it full-time at scale, right? But they needed that level of expertise guiding their investment decisions and, and their financials. And 5 years ago when I started Authentic Brand, I didn't even have the words fractional CMO to describe what I wanted to bring to the world. I just knew that small entrepreneurial businesses needed the wisdom of an experienced holistic marketer sooner than they were hiring them in their businesses. And I thought we need to find a way forward to bring small businesses that wisdom in a way that they can engage it and get the value without a full-time permanent, you know, executive level role commitment. So I kind of tripped into learning the fractional terminology 5 years ago by meeting fractional CFOs and eventually finding others who were starting to build capabilities like I had in mind. Now, 5 years later, fractional CMO exists as a marketplace. And it's taking a lot of different shapes. In fact, that's what I'm writing about right now. We're about to publish a blog on what is a fractional CMO. And while it seems like a simple description, there are a lot of different models for how it's delivered in the world now.

Yeah, for sure. I'm excited to read what you write.

Thank you.

So I want to dovetail off your concept there with the idea that you start at the top. What's the purpose? Why do you exist with an organization to kind of define that? Strategy to help you drive the, the why, the marketing plan. I also think there's a big cultural fit issue that comes into play with fractional work that's a little different from full-time work. As fractionals, we're kind of almost an outsider, but then we, we want to really get embedded, but we are by definition not full-time. So it's important, I feel, to have a cultural fit too. So how have you addressed that or seen that in your engagements?

Yeah. It's a brilliant question. So we've had to address it from two sides. And as a 5-year-old company, we've been learning quickly as we move forward how to get smarter and better about those— making that right fit. So part of it comes with hiring well for our team of fractional CMOs. So we're a little bit unique among fractional CMO firms in that all of our CMOs are now W-2 employees. And so as we hire, they're truly joining our team. As employees of Authentic Brands. So the first thing we do is, of course, we hire for values fit to what's important to us at Authentic Brands, how we show up in the world, and how each of us as leaders represent that. But what became really evident to me in the first cycle of Authentic Brands is that to be an effective fractional CMO, you not only need to be a true executive marketing leader with all of that track record, but you have to be equally as strong as a confident consultant, which means You gotta be able to stand in that space as an outside insider, really representing the client's best interests, but also being the voice of loving truth. They've hired you to come into their business with a fresh outside perspective and be effective part-time and bring all that wisdom to bear, which means you have to be able to push back lovingly and to speak up and, and speak the truth they need to hear. And that's not easy for everybody to do. We've had some people enter authentic brand who were amazing marketers, but being that confident consultant just didn't, didn't work for them. So we're not yes men and women. We are yes, no, not yet, maybe, let's think about it, and here's how we go forward in order to align your resources for the best possible results, right? So you need both sides. So that's on the hiring side, and then making the cultural fit to the client. We start that process first by being really clear about who is an ideal client for Authentic Brand, because culturally they have to be a client who is, has a growth mindset, who understands that marketing is not a faucet we turn on and suddenly you've got qualified leads, right, in 3 months' time. We're also a very expensive 90-day experiment. That's not what we're designed to be. We're a transformational guide and leader on your executive team. So Once we've qualified the fit really well in terms of expectation, investment level, and collaboration of spirit, then that match is easy because we work with values-led businesses. We're a very clear values-led business too. So when you put two goodwill people together with the right skillset, that culture happens naturally. That collaboration is the most important aspect of finding that culture fit.

Yeah, that's great. And I know it's really interesting that you went to— you made the shift in your business model to going from independent contractor relationships to full-time W-2. And I know there's a story there. We've, we've also kind of done a similar version of that. We went from contractors to franchisees. And for us, the reason was we, we were providing so much support to those contractors that we looked and felt like a franchise. So we either had to pull back support or become one. I'm curious what your reason for going to the, the W-2 relationship was, because I know it's extremely valuable to your clients to have that relationship. But yeah, elaborate on that.

Absolutely. There were several reasons that went into it. So when I first started the business, like I said, 5 years ago, fractional CMO, the marketplace was in its infancy. And I knew what I wanted to accomplish. And I knew what I wanted as an endgame for myself as an owner of the business. I just didn't know for sure how the market would respond to how we would define the offering. So initially, I started with 1099 independent contractors. But I had my endgame in mind all along. And I knew that it would only give me a year or two of experimentation before I would have to lock into a model and decide, are we a gig economy matchmaker with contractors who completely operate independently? Are we a franchise like you've chosen so that we have a licensing agreement and we can have a level of consistency in delivery and people have independent ownership? Would we be in employment? And if we were an employee model, would it be more of a partnership? Or standard hierarchy employment. So I basically spent the first 2 years listening to the market, researching my options, and asking myself as an owner, what do I value most? And what do I want the most from my business? So one thing about myself as an owner is that I've committed from day one that I want to build a business that's highly valuable so that I always have an option to exit in a healthy way should I ever want to. But I wanna also build a business full of people I love, doing work that we love with people we really enjoy working with. And I wanted it to have a true culture and a true brand with it. And that was really gonna be impossible to build as a gig economy model where people weren't closely connected and collaborative. It was also really important to me as we developed a methodology and a proven process that I could hold my team, all of my representatives accountable to that, which meant a lot of training and reinforcement. An operating structure, and you need to either have employees or franchisees to deliver on that. And, and I knew that I wanted to build a team where I, we all had a really close-knit community, and I could provide for my employees what my employees were looking for from us, which was strong business development and marketing, so they could focus on simply being CMOs and not developing business, and benefits, and benefits and architecture, so they really were totally equipped to just dive right in as CMOs into the work that they love the most, which is being being a marketing leader. So those are the things that attract people to Authentic Brand. That is what we bring to the world. And through our unique employment model, we've been able to create some really special solutions for clients. Like just today, we are expanding a long-term relationship with a client by bringing a, a second CMO into that engagement. Super collaborative partnership to bring them a lot of high value in a specific area where they need e-commerce expertise. So it's given us the ability to collaborate a lot more closely than if we were a loosely knit, you know, group of independents in the market.

Yeah, I think it's brilliant. And I've talked to you before about that. And I think that's a nice evolution of what started 5, 6, 7 years ago, this fractured fractional group, to now there's some models that are emerging that I think are hybrids and work a little bit better for everybody. And I'm glad to see you're doing it and enjoy watching you grow. There's been a couple other things that you've done that I know— I don't like— I'm not a voyeur or anything, but I, you know, I keep track on the marketplace and I see what you're doing. Like, that's interesting. That is so cool. So what we did during the pandemic is we kind of launched an association of fractional professionals to try to provide some connectivity between peers, fractional CTOs, CFOs, CMOs, etc. And then I saw you did something similar. I don't know if it was pre-pandemic or during the pandemic where you started this association of essentially EOS integrators, I think. Is that, is that how that kicked off? Or give me that story because it seems—

this is one of my favorite stories because it has evolved in ways I couldn't have imagined. But we have just been really blessed by it. It was pre-pandemic. Actually, my business was only about 2 years old when I started thinking about community building, right? And how the role that that could play in my business. And we run our business on EOS. I come from another business that I worked in for 13 years that ran on EOS. So I've been familiar with that platform for a long time. I believe in the operating system and I believe in putting a lot of great process and structure into a growing entrepreneurial business. So as a company who runs on EOS, I started attending the annual conference and meeting other leaders who were building businesses run on EOS. And I loved my conversations with them, with the visionaries who are usually the founders or CEOs or operators, and then also their integrators who are their second-in-command leaders. And in most small businesses, that's a CFO, a COO, or a president or a general manager, right? Just loved their stories. And I thought, as I came back to my office, which is in Minneapolis, I thought, I want to know these people in and around my community. And there are many of them. EOS is really prolific here in the Twin Cities. So I thought, What if I hosted a gathering now and then at my office and we got these leaders together? So I started asking my friends, many of whom are EOS implementers, those who help companies, you know, put that system in place and the companies who run on them, what would be valuable? And what I learned through that just kind of word of mouth research was that most visionaries, the CEOs of companies, already had forums. Like, like I said, I just joined Vistage. There are a lot of CEO forums available. But there wasn't a really great unified forum for that integrator, that second-in-command leader. And so that was the white space. And I thought, well, what if we hosted that for those leaders? They should know each other. So we had our first event set up for April of 2020 with some pretty decent registration when COVID shut everything down in March. And we pushed pause, but then I just thought, you know, I don't know how long this will have to sit here. Let's make it happen. We'll move it virtual. So from May of 2020, we started what is now the Integrator Community. And right away, right away, the word of mouth spread way beyond the Twin Cities region. And we recognized there was a need for this space for those second-in-command leaders to network, share lessons learned and experiences, and solve issues together. So we've been hosting a free 90-minute monthly meeting for integrators. Since 2020, and we've had over 1,200 integrators from 48 states and 14 countries participate in these meetings. And it's brought forth some really amazing partnerships with others in the ecosystem who serve entrepreneurial companies, and they've helped offset our costs so we can keep it equitably available. It's just been a real blessing. I've made 1,200 new friends in the last year and a half, and, and that building community is, you know, I shared earlier, when you, when you can answer the question of who do we care about and who we want to matter to and why do we matter to them and how do we enter their world in a way that is natural and gives them something of value. This is how we chose to do it. We want to know leaders of entrepreneurial businesses, but not just so we can pitch them. We want to know them so they know us and trust us and like us and want to keep us top of mind when they do need what we provide. So it's been a real blessing to create that space.

Yeah, that's exciting. Well, kudos to you. It's, it's fun watching all the stuff you're doing. So let me switch gears a little bit and talk about just the fractional life and how it's different than the full-time life. So you've got several employees that are fractional providers. How does that different for those that don't understand between having a full-time person or a fractional person?

There are a lot of differences. So I'll speak first to what it is that brings people into conversation with Authentic Brand when they're curious about a fractional lifestyle. Usually it's because they've reached a level of experience in their career where they recognize that they could take one of two paths. They're, they're not ready to retire. They still want to do really meaningful work for quite some time. And they could either do that by continuing to pursue corporate employment and have a few more roles that are meaningful for a few more companies. Or they could take the wealth of their knowledge and experience and potentially help many more companies for the remaining time that they're wanting to be actively engaged. And they could do it in a way, perhaps with small businesses, where they would make a really tremendous impact. And, and the work would be— they'd be able to really see that through in a different way than in a bigger corporate setting. The other thing that brings people into considering a fractional career is that You know, for any of those listening who've been an executive or a chief marketing officer, you know that that's not a 40-hour-a-week job. There's not a lot of margin left for life outside of the job. And COVID perhaps has opened more conversations about how is it that I can do meaningful work and still have a meaningful life. I mean, that was happening before COVID and but the growth of the what we call the gig economy of people who are choosing to work differently is going to continue to, to expand. And so people are looking for a way to do meaningful, high-impact work, still earn a meaningful living, but not burn out. And we at Authentic Brand, our promise to our employees is love your life and love your work, in that order. That's what we want to create for them. So our CMOs don't work more than 40 hours a week, and some of them work a max of 20 hours a week. And we support that and we work to keep their plates as full as they would like it to be. But there are big implications to what that means for them in terms of what work looks like. At least when you work at Authentic Brand in a fractional role, you might work on 1, 2, or 3 client engagements at a time, and they're generally long-term, you know, 1 to 2 or more years. But there are times when one, one client engagement might roll off before another rolls on. So there's some ebb and flow. It's not the same as a corporate paycheck that's just steady paycheck hitting your, hitting your account every month, right? There's a little ebb and flow that comes with a consulting lifestyle. So, but the opportunity to earn is great. And we offer a lot of upside as well for those who are willing to work their networks to influence and open opportunities for our sales team as well.

Yeah. So how does that engagement feel like for a fractional CMO in the world, in their role with that client? And how is that different than a full-time engagement?

Well, the biggest difference— this, let me start by saying it's not fair and it's not right, but it is real— that clients tend to trust the voice of an outsider sometimes more than they trust the voice of their own people. Again, it's not fair, right, or whatever, but it is real. When you come in as an outside contractor, for some reason, Your voice carries a lot of weight. So the, the freedom to be the voice of logic and reason and truth in the room without feeling like you have to safeguard your reputation or play the politics or preserve your turf is really liberating. And it allows people to really bring their highest impact wisdom to an organization. But it also is a high-pressure role because you're expected to at least in the way we engage, we, we work part-time, but we have full accountability for that seat in their org chart. We sit within their business, we work under their email address, and we might be working 16 or 20 hours a week, and we're leading every single aspect of their marketing teams and programs. And so it also means you have to manage expectations really well, very proactively. You have to know how to manage boundaries and delegate really efficiently, and you have to show the value of your impact more quickly than if you were onboarding to a full-time role. For some reason, culturally, businesses tend to expect a new employee to take 6 to 12 months to fully immerse into the business and learn all the things. When you're a fractional CMO, you've got 6 to 12 weeks to do all that and lead.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that is so true. I find it just fascinating how in our engagements, we're month to month. So the pressure's there. On ourselves, we place it in there. But engagements are generally 18 to 24 months. But you say, what you said is so, so real is that you've got this gravitas that you bring in as an outside fractional CMO, but then you've got to perform right away. And what you said earlier, marketing doesn't perform all the time right away. So you have to have those expectation conversations upfront. And got to bring some leadership talent to the play where you can influence everyone around you to work together even though you're an outsider.

Yes, absolutely. Chief collaboration officer. Yeah, exactly. The other thing that is true about marketing that might not be as apparent to someone who hasn't sat in that seat is that it's, it's one of the most unique leadership roles in the organization. Because if you take any other facet of the organization, whether it's Product development, technology, finance, customer service, depending on how the business is modeled. They may have a hierarchy of different roles, but somewhere in their organization, they have a staff of people doing the same job, whether it's a team of project managers, a team of developers, a team of salespeople, right? And in the finance world, it's a pretty linear ladder, CFO, controller, you know, accountant, bookkeeper, whatever that looks like. In marketing, you have a cross-discipline organization of internal team members and external team members who might be doing 200 different micro jobs. Yeah, from creative to content to digital to metrics to data. You're managing probably the most diverse community of talent that constantly fluctuates depending on what the needs are in the organization. And so there's just nothing linear about it, which is why I like to demystify right away I don't know if you see this in the work you do, but fractional CFO firms, there's a reason why you can hire a fractional CFO 4 hours a week and still get a ton of value when they're running fairly linear, streamlined, repeatable processes down a pretty linear streamlined team. That doesn't look the same in the marketing world where you're spinning plates. It's more like a circus landscape of many, many different rings with lots of plates being spun.

Yeah. And for us, every engagement is truly unique. Like, we— and it's, um, and for our CMOs, we don't have a specific vertical that we go after. We, we try to support them and their interests and their clients. Their geographic and historical work, uh, kind of sets where that interest lies. But every client's unique, so it starts from like zero every single time. You're not able to build off of each client as if you were in more of a traditional digital marketing role that just serves dentists. Like, that's a Very unique. Yeah, exactly. Not, not in our world. So have you, have you identified a narrow, uh, I mean, you've got $500 million CEOs, that's a pretty big broad range. Do you have any verticals within there?

We have not. We have not. We have purposefully not picked any specific verticals that we include or exclude. We do tend to look, uh, we, we— there's a difference between what we go-to-market chasing and what we will take if it comes our way. Um, but what we pursue as an ideal client would be a business that yes, is $5 to $100 million in revenue, growth mindset based, or has a center of operations in the United States. And ideally they run on an operating system, whether it's EOS, System and Soul, Pinnacle, or some vert— they have an operating structure, which means they've done a lot of the heavy lifting from creating a business foundation from which marketing can then amplify. And extend. Without that, marketing has to often play the role of helping them nail down the business foundations before we start doing the marketing activation. So we are, some of the markets we're very established in are connected to where Jennifer Zick, when I first started the business, where my network was established in my background before becoming a CEO and firing myself from consulting role was my background was professional services, B2B technology and software. So we tended to attract a lot of those connections initially. And now we're working with B2C, e-commerce, distributor, channel partner, across a wide variety of, of industries and models. And we love that. And our CMOs who are joining our team, many of them have cross-disciplinary experience and have a wide range, and some are more specialized in like SaaS and technology. And, and right now, that still works for us. So we haven't narrowed it down more specifically. But on the front end, we do really try to get that, find those attributes of that culture fit, the values fit, the size and the growth mindset. And that they really know that they, they don't just need tactics, they really understand for us to be a good fit, they understand that they have a marketing leadership gap. Right. So that's where we're really strong fit.

Yeah, that's, that's, that's so similar to what we look for and that gap. And when you mentioned operating system, we've identified that as well, an organization that already has an operating system in place. It's almost like we're bolt-on, we're easy to get started much faster. They understand the idea of goal setting and quarterly pulsing. And scorecards, weekly check-ins. But if they don't have that experience, you are— your marketing system becomes their operating system by extension. And it's good. Sometimes that's what they need. And then you can introduce an operating system to them, whether it be EOS or something else, and they get it. But it's much easier when it's already in existence.

Yes, you can move a lot faster with a common kind of language and mindset for how the work gets done. But we've had the good pleasure of introducing several of our clients who had no operating system to frameworks that have helped across their business. And they've been able to watch their CMO lead marketing and say, wow, we need that kind of leadership across the business, we need that kind of a plan, we need that kind of process. So it's, it's like a double blessing to be able to be the company that can come in and show them a better way not only to approach marketing, but to run a growth business, right? Yeah.

And we've, we've even introduced them to other fractionals in other areas of their business, whether it be sales or operations and technology. So they see the value in a fractional CMO can bring, they realize, oh, we need that same level of fractional expertise in one of these other areas.

Absolutely. I don't think the demand for fractional executive leadership is going to slow down. I think growing businesses. I mean, you just think about the last 2 years of disruptions that we've all faced. You know, one of the biggest line items on any business's, you know, P&L is payroll. And if you can manage to keep executive trusted leadership in your business without the commitment of an equity shareholder long-term role, you've got the flexibility then to focus on your core, focus on the product or the service and the core of what your business does, supported by all that expertise that stays flexible with where you're at as an organization.

Yeah, I really believe the, the best opportunity today for a growing business leader is to understand and engage with fractional leaders. That's the biggest opportunity out there in the marketplace. Anything else they could look at, that's where they should start, because there's so much more they can do with a good leader in that. And Most growing business owners have been wearing all the hats when they started and slowly take a couple hats off and add a team around them. But there's still people on their team wearing multiple hats. Get those hats onto a fractional leader, whatever the discipline is, that's gonna allow you to scale just exponentially more.

Absolutely. I, this is my first business that I've owned. So I'm a first-time entrepreneur, you know, in starting Authentic Brand, but it's not my first entrepreneurial, rodeo, if you will. I got to be the first employee in a business that became one of Minnesota's fastest growing business many years ago. And I was there from 3 employees to 150 employees and saw how all of that unfolded over the years. But we didn't implement an operating system until we were 8 years old. And we didn't bring in senior executive leadership until we were maybe 10 years old as a company. And I look back on that as like, and we were so successful despite ourselves, but could have moved further, faster, more competently had we had wise people around us sooner instead of just capable, smart people. There's a difference between smart and wise. And I think wisdom, you know, when you think about a fractional leader, you're missing the big picture if you're only thinking about it in terms of a fraction of the cost of a full-time hire. That's part of the story, But the other part is it's a fraction of the risk and it's faster to impact because the, the multiplier is the wisdom. And that wisdom is amplified when you are in community with other fractional leaders that you can, like we have at Authentic Brand, we call it our mindshare. All of our CMOs meeting weekly together to share generously with each other so that all of our clients can solve issues faster and move to outcomes faster. You don't get that in one single full-time hire.

Yeah, you don't. So what's— I'm curious what it's like being— or how have you reflected on what it's like founding and growing your own business versus being employee number 1 in a growing business? Because it's different. What are some of the insights you can share?

I love that question because I actually have been thinking about that a lot lately coming up on 5 years. Well, first of all, I'm older and I've had a lot more time to live and learn. So when I was young and I was the first employee in that business. I have, I could look back with a lot of regrets and kick myself, but I don't believe in living life with regrets. I had the opportunity to be the third owner in that business, but I was young and scared of risk at that time. I was newly married. We had just bought our first house. I was adulting. And the thought of paying taxes on revenue, and I didn't come from an entrepreneurial family. I came from a blue-collar town and was the first in my family to, you know, graduate college. And I just didn't have a safety net or all of that experience. And so I was scared. So I asked for like this modest little salary instead, and I missed out on ownership. But on the flip side, in my heart, I always felt like a founder and an owner in that business because I was with them from day one. But now that I am an owner and I'm older and I'm wiser, I recognize why, um, how much I didn't know because I wasn't an owner. I didn't truly have skin in the game on that last go-round. I thought I did emotionally. And I think I I was pretty immature sometimes on what I expected from the owners because I was an original employee. It is so different being an owner. It's so different when you take on all the risk and you're the one placing the bets and you're the one feeding the families and you feel that sense of responsibility and accountability and you're paying the taxes. It's very different. So, um, I'm so grateful for what I've learned as an owner this time. It makes me want to go back and talk to my 20-something self and share that wisdom. But It also helps me move forward. Like, okay, I wasn't an owner then, but boy, did I gain a lot from what I call that second row seat. I learned what entrepreneurial growth in a business looks like, and I had such a wonderful opportunity to wear a lot of different hats as we scaled. And now I'm able to take that playbook and put it into my business while I'm older and wiser now. And, uh, but yeah, I mean, this is the scariest thing I've ever done in my life, build a business. It's scary every day, but it— I'm living fully by, by leaning into that fear and just saying, I'm doing it anyway, doing it anyway, because I don't want to live with regrets. I don't want to look back and think, what if, what if I had done this? So it's been, it's been wonderful. It's been a joy. Even in this—

kudos to you. It is, uh, this is not my first entrepreneurial venture. I've had several, and they never have been in the same industries. I was in the mortgage industry for a while, and then I was real estate development and video production and now this, and I've got a few others. But what I love is the starting of businesses and the growth and all of the variables and all of the things you got to figure out along the way. And then all the structure and operations you got to put in place for it to be scalable. And you get a unique perspective of that when you're the owner.. And you see it from the inside when you're employee number one, but it's just different.

It's just different. It is different. It's different. And, you know, you're never not— as much as I do work to make sure that my career and my business doesn't overtake my life, I want to love my life and love my work in that order too. I'm still raising 3 kids and I want to see them, but the work, it never leaves your mind. You know, it's with you. And I'm laying in bed at night working on the business and imagining all the different aspects of operational pipework that we got to lay for the next level of growth, right? So it's, it's exhilarating. And it's crazy, especially in the landscape we're living in today where nothing is predictable.

Yeah, I heard it described once as creative discontent entrepreneurs have this, they're always wanting to, they're just not happy with what they've got. They're always improving or innovating or thinking of the next thing. And it's just, It's kind of a curse that just lurks back there when you've got downtime, but it's what drives us too.

I've had many years of talking with God about what I felt was this curse of the drive he gave me. I'm like, oh man, life would be so much easier if I could just be okay with like where I'm at, get content, get comfortable. But I, I am not designed that way. And, um, I'm grateful that I finally was able to embrace that and say, you know, then let's just go. Let's just go because fighting against that, when that's how you're naturally wired, it just doesn't work. So yep, it's a creative discontent. And then I think as the owner of a business, when you're building a team and you're building a culture and you have employees, it's recognizing— I heard recently the leader brings the weather, right? And when you're a driver, an entrepreneur, a visionary, it can be easy to give the vibe to all of your employees that you're constantly perpetually discontented and not happy.

Right?

Yeah. So like showing up grateful and joyful and thrilled with all the progress and where we're at while also like still looking forward and pushing.

Yeah, it's a trick. I mean, and I imagine you're learning a lot more about leadership by being the leader and in your own way, you're— at least I'm discontent all the time with my own ability as a leader.. And so I'm always looking to be better. And it's that internal creative discontent almost. And it makes me continue to want to be a better leader for my people and my clients, my teams. And that drives us as well as entrepreneurs, which— and there's a good segment of entrepreneurs out there that are like you and like me that are, that are driven and that are growing. And there's some that have kind of hit their plateau and now are just kind of exiting. And that's a different group of people. But it's still, once you've experienced it and tasted it, it's hard to ever go back. I think that most entrepreneurs are otherwise unemployable after they've owned their own business. That's why I've never gone back to work. It's like I started one and now I've started another and then another. I just don't think anybody would hire me.

I know, I can't see myself. I'm a very collaborative person and absolutely willing to, you know, humbly work under somebody else's vision, except that I don't think I could be constrained to just execute something. I have to create something. I have to grow something. I have to, I have to move into the space that's unknown and experiment, right? So that's what's important to me. And, and who knows where this leads? You know, when I started Authentic Brand day one at my kitchen table, building my first version VTO and arguing between me, myself, and I about what the values of the company would be. You know, all I knew was at that point, for the next 10 to 15 years, I want to work in a business full of people I love doing work that, you know, brings us joy. And I want to be always in a position that if, if it's the right time for me to exit in whatever shape that is, whether it's through a sale or whether it's through promoting myself to a board role and letting someone else run the business and I'm owning it, but outside of it, whatever that is, I want to build a healthy, vibrant, highly valued business for the sake of everybody who's a stakeholder here. So So that's what we're doing. And I can't believe we're 5 years in already. That's— yeah, it goes fast.

It does. So what do you like to do outside of work?

That's a good question. So in my world, we live in 2 seasons at the Zick home. We live in hockey season with 2 sons who play hockey, one in high school and one as a peewee, and lake cabin season. So we live in Minnesota and we have a lake home 3 hours north of the Twin Cities up in the sticks with the pristine lake and total silence. It's a place where I love to escape. I could never live full-time because I need to be around cities and people and all the things, but it's a beautiful place to go. So yeah, so when I'm not at work, I'm usually hockey carpooling or sitting in an ice rink. And our oldest daughter is now in college studying communications. Um, so she's just been home for the holidays. It's been lovely to have her. So I'm just actively raising a family and doing mom life.. And I'm like, keep telling myself someday my other hobbies like theater and artwork will come back. But in the meanwhile, I actually feel like all of those creative juices I get to use as an entrepreneur. Like my work is my hobby and passion and I love it.

So that's mostly what I do. Yeah. There's nothing more creative than being an entrepreneur and building a business as a canvas. I mean, it really is. Every little piece is a, you know, an idea that now you're able to paint into reality.. And I mean, as an entrepreneur, we appreciate that. I think outsiders don't necessarily see the creativity that goes into entrepreneurship, but, and it's, it's intense, the amount of creativity it takes to continue to grow and adapt. Yeah.

So hockey season is, is that right now? Yes, we're in the throes of it right now. Yeah. And our, our oldest son is a sophomore in high school and is starting to play some varsity hockey, and it's heavy hitting and fast moving, and it's a lot of time. He's about to get his driver's license, thank God, because right now his dad is spending about 3 hours a night taking him to the rink, waiting for practice to be done to drive him back home again.

So yeah, it's a big commitment. So we have 4 kids, and we only have— our youngest is a junior in high school, uh, she can drive, so we kind of feel like we're out of the heavy, heavy lifting. But we had soccer season, that was a big season for us. All the kids played soccer. Then we did show choirs, a lot of show choir going on around here right now, traveling to shows. And I enjoy that. I didn't have— I had zero appreciation for show choir when my daughters got into it. And now I'm— it's really interesting how I can watch it, you know, the different choirs and, and appreciate the differences and nuances between each. But I, I was reluctantly dragged to the first couple show choirs.

I would have been that girl. I, I was a big theater, music, choir, band, any performing arts at all. That was my, that was my thing through high school and college. And my daughter is, is a musician as well, and songwriter, and talented, but she keeps it on the down low. She doesn't like the group performances, but she's her— she's a little creative person herself. She doesn't know quite what she'll do yet when she's through with college, but it could be something around design. It's fun. It's so fun to watch them grow up into adults and, you know, shine their light uniquely.

Yeah, it is fun to watch them grow. And they all go through different, different stages in their development, you know, ups and downs. And my wife was just saying this the other day that— and I hadn't heard before, I had not heard this before— but she said, you're only as happy as your saddest child, or And so you're always carrying the weight of what they're going through, good or bad. Yeah, because we have 4, I don't think I'm ever happy.

Oh, bless her heart. I can so relate. I know. And actually, that's another thing I love about my career and my workplace. I'm sitting in my beautiful office today and I'm so grateful because whatever might be going on at home, and there's always something. First of all, I have a wonderful supportive partner with my husband and we've always had each other's backs. Career-wise. But coming here, I get to turn my attention and my focus and my energy into the building, right? And often as a mom and a wife, we're, we're taking care of whatever the fire is over here, right? So I'm grateful for a place to be and work, good work to do and great clients to work with. But I'm also really grateful that like so many in our community, including you, are their friends. Like the people that we spend time with these days as clients and that we're hiring on our team are just amazing humans. And I especially appreciate how, though your business could be considered a competitor to Authentic Brand, we've collaborated in a lot of ways since we've met, and we're sharing our stories and what we're learning and how we're growing. And there's more than enough work for all of our teams to abundantly help each other grow.

Yeah, I'm a big believer in abundance, and especially an emerging market like this, the more awareness we can get out to marketplace about options for fractional professionals and fractional CMOs. And even on the recruiting side, I know I've sent people your way that are looking for more of that environment and not as interested in a franchise operation and vice versa. It's just, there's no reason not to be collaborative. And, and thank you so much for coming on the show today.

I really appreciate that. It's been a lot of fun. Thank you for carving out the time and, and offering me the chance to come and be a guest. I hope there's been some nuggets that we've shared here that'll help your listeners. And we're always happy to be a resource. And if anybody happens to be listening and has an integrator in their life, they're always welcome to jump into our community.

Yeah, I think that's great. And I know my business partner has been in the integrator meetings, and he always has good takeaways from those. He appreciates them quite a bit. So for the listeners out there, if you want to get ahold of Jennifer, you can go to her website, Authentic brand.com, or reach out on LinkedIn. Either way is good for you, and I expect you'll hear some from some people. This has been a really engaging conversation, so thanks again. And that's a wrap.

There's another successful episode of the Fractional C-Suite Retreat. See our show notes and more episodes at fractionalcsuitretreat.com. This podcast is sponsored by Your CMO, helping organizations grow, save time and money with better marketing strategy and fractional execution. Visit them at yourcmo.com. Your CMO dot com.

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