How Do You Work With Your Spouse Without Sacrificing Your Relationship?
Omar Zenhom and his wife Nicole, who've co-founded multiple businesses over 14 years, share how they work together without damaging their relationship. They use clear meeting structures, external coaching when stuck, and transparent finances. A 2019 conflict over shutting down their podcast shows how they resolved it: they aligned on shared values and set aside ego.
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How do you work with your spouse without sacrificing the relationship? This is a question that got sent by one of our listeners, Carrie. And I thought to myself, there is no way I can answer this question alone. I had to bring on Nicole, who is my co-founder, the executive producer of this podcast, and my wife. Welcome, Nicole.
Hey everyone. Hey Omar.
Hey, it's good to have you.
Happy to be here.
When we got this question, we thought, how do we answer this question honestly? Because we've been running this business for over 12 years and we've run multiple businesses together. A lot of people ask us this question when we meet them in person at conferences, when we get on podcast interviews, they're like, "Oh man, I don't know if I can ever work with my husband or wife. I would kill them." What are your first thoughts when people say that?
Yeah, it's always asked in that way. And sometimes it makes me a little bit sad, but I do get where it's coming from. I know that they don't really mean that they want to kill their partner. I know it's a figure of speech, but I do want to say that we're going to talk about the frustrations, the moments of tension, the kinks that we had to work out, because there are kinks that you have to work out. I think when people ask that question, they just think it's easy or it's natural. Some people can do it and other people can't. We're gonna be honest, we're gonna share, you know, those moments where we had to really work out certain things and how we've made it work.
Yeah, I think what a lot of people wanna know is like, how do you spend so much time together? How do you disagree without fighting? How do you work together when you have different working styles or even different ambitions? So we're gonna cover the good, the bad, the ugly, and I think we're gonna share some things that we haven't shared publicly before, so I'm excited for that.
Me too.
So just for context, we've been working together for over 14 years as co-founders in multiple businesses, and we spend roughly 90% of our time together. We'll talk about, you know, how we do that. We work together, we spend our life together at home, we travel together. Yes, we have our own interests and hobbies, and we have our time with our own friends, but we also had to manage what does it look like to share so much together.
Right. I'm hoping that I get to join you and ask the questions that people would ask if they were sitting right across from you.
And by the way, if you have a question you want to ask, you can always submit your question over at 100mba.net/q, and we'll consider it and add it to our queue of Q&A Wednesday episodes. So the first thing I want to share with everybody who's watching and listening is I think Nicole and I got really lucky because we were colleagues before we were romantic partners. Nicole and I both worked at the same higher education institution, the college we were working at in Dubai. She was a teacher in my department. So I saw her as a professional before I saw her as my wife or my significant other. And I think that really helped a lot. Because I didn't have to adapt to a new idea or adapt to your identity as a coworker, right? As a colleague. And so when we decided to join forces and work together and build businesses together, it wasn't a foreign concept.
That is true. So I, we knew each other in that context, but I'll have to say that we had the rules and the structure of the organization around us. And so yes, while like I knew you as a colleague, we had to then establish our own rules, our own working styles. And that is, that's different. You know, that it's a different situation to have to navigate.
100%. And you alluded to what I think we wanna get into first is that Nicole and I are absolute opposites, okay? And I think that's a good thing because I've talked about this on the show before. If you're looking for a co-founder, looking to team up with somebody, don't find somebody that's like you because you are already you. The business doesn't need two of you, right? So it's better for you to cover more ground by finding somebody that complements you, somebody that is everything that you're not. And I feel that's what we are for each other. But we had to learn a lot of hard lessons about how we like to work, how we like to think. Tell me a little bit about some of the things you learned over the years.
Yeah, I think you were clearly a few steps ahead. Like when we started our businesses, for me, entrepreneurship was completely new. You'd been, you know, building businesses on the side. So I felt like you were a few steps ahead, but that still meant that I had to learn how to be a co-founder and in business with you and operate together in a way that didn't cause, cause us frustration. So I think some of the things that were really apparent from the very beginning is how we think. You like to think solo, you like to think on your own, whereas I like to talk out ideas. I'm— that's, you know, that's just the way I'm wired. I don't know if you've had this situation. I know a lot of my friends have had this situation. I have a question in my head. I think I don't know the answer. I come to, you know, ask you the question. And then as soon as I ask the question, the answer just comes. I mean, that happens all the time to me. So that's just the way I think. And that's just the way I operate. And that's okay. And I think we had to learn, you know, to understand those nuances and those differences.
Yeah. I, I think the biggest learning for me was you talk so that you can think. I like to think so I can talk.
Mm-hmm.
And it's a big difference when you're trying to make decisions. Like say for example, we're trying to make a decision if we're gonna take on a new project or throw on a new event. And I have already thought about this and I, it's probably been days since I've been thinking about this. Yeah. And then I approach you and I talk about this and then you start voicing your thoughts about it by speaking about it. And the words that come into your mouth, I actually take as if like, this is what you think, this is what you want, right? And no, you're just actually getting to the answer. You're processing your thoughts verbally.
Yeah. And like, I love the brainstorming process, but you've come already with the brainstorm that's already happened.
Yeah, I like things to bake in. Like I mentioned this to you before, but if you hear an idea from me, especially if it's a significant idea to help grow the business, it's not something I thought of 5 minutes ago. I probably thought about it for a few days. And I do this on purpose 'cause I like to let ideas simmer. I like to sleep on them. If I wake up and I still think about them, maybe there's something there. But if I kind of forget about it, like, oh, you know, that was just kind of a momentary thought, a fleeting thought, I don't think it's worth sharing.
Well, yeah, and that's a good point. So we learned early on to, set meetings and come together for things with very clear purposes. Like when it was going to be a brainstorming session, it was very clearly— I realized early on that it really helped to designate, okay, the outcome of this session, this meeting, this time we're coming together is for brainstorming.
What's this meeting about?
Nothing has been decided. We're talking it out. And then we became very clear, like about, okay, this meeting is going to be a decision-making. At the end, we need to conclude and come up with whatever idea. We've, you know, we need to come up with a plan, for example. And I think just even establishing those outcomes and being so clear really helped you and I communicate better and work together better once we figured that out.
Yeah. So I think if you're going to work with your significant other, you have to learn a little bit about how they like to communicate, how they like to share ideas. And you have to compromise. You can't just say, no, I don't like that, you got to do what I do. I have learned to understand how Nicole likes to operate and I work in her world because it's much easier for me to kind of do that than to ask her to change. And I don't expect her to make me change, but at the same time, we gotta meet somewhere in the middle. We gotta work together.
And that brings us back to that point where people say, I would, you know, wanna kill my partner. Being different is okay. It's actually a positive thing.
I agree. And I think that the difference you have to celebrate that, you have to embrace that, and you have to utilize that. You can't just be like, okay, this is too hard, I'm not going to deal with it. And it took some time. You know, people don't realize that, you know, we were colleagues for years, for over like 4 or 5 years, and then we worked together as business partners for now 14 years. So we've ironed out a lot and we're still working through it. One of the things that as co-founders we prioritize is a chance for us to meet. Without the team so that we can make sure we're on the same page. This was really important in the early days because I wanted to make sure that you knew what I wanted to get out of this. Like, what, what do you want to get out of this whole journey as entrepreneurs and where are you trying to get out of it? Because there's nothing worse than somebody working hard and then you don't get the outcome you're looking for. So let's get into some of the things that we want to share publicly we haven't shared before. We're going to start a little bit soft here, but one of the things that a lot of people don't know about us is that the first 6 years or so, first 5, 6 years of us working together as co-founders from, I would say, 2012 on, uh, we spent, I would say, 99% of our time together working on the business. Like, we really focused on growing the business, building the business, hiring, making a better product, making a better podcast. Uh, and we didn't really spend a lot of time on the relationship. Like, we really— that was our relationship. I think, you know, we still love each other. Romance was there, everything. But I would say the vast majority of our conversations was about how we can win in business.
It was all-consuming. I mean, we changed our life, right? We'd gone from working a 9-to-5 to starting these businesses and having to make it work. So I didn't— I mean, you make it sound a little unromantic.
No, it was.
But I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying. It was all-consuming. And I think in the early years it is. I think it's the different, it's the different phases that you go through, right?
It was a season for us.
It was a season of just, and for me it was, it was fine because it was, it's fun. It's like, this is what we're doing every, I mean, it was new for me to do all these different things in businesses, figure out blogging, figure out, you know, email marketing, figure out hiring, customer service, all the different functions. Everything was new. And so that creative process of discovery and figuring things out with you, I didn't see it as like, what else are we going to do? I mean, this is what— this was our life. Yeah.
And we had a few restrictions because I think every dollar we made, we threw back into the business, reinvested. So we didn't really have a lot of money to spend to kind of like go on lavish vacations or anything like that. We did go on our first like holiday in 6 years. We had one failed one, which was like a 3-day cruise on Carnival, which was a nightmare.
I didn't think you would mention them.
Yeah, that was a nightmare cruise where basically we were in the room the whole time. Uh, and then we had a classic one.
Like, that sounds— we didn't love the cruise.
No, we didn't love the cruise. We didn't want to get out there and, um, mingle with the rest. I mean, it was just, you know, it wasn't our vibe. It wasn't our vibe. And the reason why is because Nicole and I are a little bit OCD when it comes to cleaning list and it wasn't a very clean cruise. And that was kind of—
This would be a whole other topic.
Yeah. But we did have a good holiday where we went to Costa Rica. This was like about 5 years in and it was like a 5-day holiday. It was the first time we actually shut off from work and we delegated to the team and we only checked in like an hour a day and we were like really nervous about that. Remember that?
Yeah, that was our— I felt like that was our first proper trip. And it was the first time that we exercised that, okay, let's just let go. Let's trust.
Cindy. Thank you, Cindy.
Thank you, Cindy. Nothing. And it was the first time that we proved that to ourselves that, yeah, if you hire good people, if you have a good team, you don't have to be on everyone all the time.
Yeah, 100%.
And it was a fun holiday.
It was really fun because I really was hungry for experiences outside of business with you. And the moment we checked into the hotel, I asked the receptionist, "Do you guys do excursions?" And she's like, "Yeah, we do excursions. Here are all the excursions." And like, we signed up for an excursion today. Like, we were like, "We're going to do, you know, ATVing this day. We're going to do jet skiing this day. We're going to do ziplining this day." And we literally booked all these excursions back to back. And we had a lot of fun. It was a lot of memories.
I never went ziplining ever again after that, but it was fun. It was like the longest zipline.
In the world. Yes, in Costa Rica. Hey guys, I hope that this episode is valuable. If it is, do us a favor and hit subscribe. We work so hard to create these episodes for you, so the biggest thank you you can give us is hit that subscribe button on whatever app you're using. But I also want you to hit subscribe because we have an upcoming episode I don't want you to miss, and it's all about is social media a waste of time for your business, okay? I was a big hater of social media for nearly a decade. I thought this was like just not a good return on investment. The amount of time and effort you have to put in You know, you're, you're not gonna see it in your business. Well, I changed my tune about 2 years ago and it made all the difference. And I wanna share with you why I changed my tune and what are some of the things that I did that actually has helped grow our business strategies, techniques, uh, because it's very easy to get this wrong. It's very easy to just kind of like think you just post randomly and everything's gonna be all right. That's not how social media works. So make sure you subscribe so you don't miss it. What we learned along the journey that I wanna share with everybody and kind of bring up is You know, you can always build another business, but it's very hard to create another solid relationship with your significant other. You know, businesses come and go, and you gotta really prioritize your personal relationship if you're working with your spouse.
Yeah, the relationship has to come first. And I think, you know, in all those moments where maybe there were disagreements, and we'll talk a little bit more about some of those key disagreements, always coming back to the relationship has to come first, not just as like a nice, a nice, you know, thing to say. It's really how we operate. And I think the more years you have in business, the more problems you experience, the more wins you experience as well. But then you get used to saying, okay, it's another problem we can solve. Like, that's fine. We'll get past that. You know, this too shall pass. And the more reps you have in that regard, the more, you know, it's not such a big deal.
Speaking of problems.
Uh-oh.
Sometimes you have to solve some big problems together. Sometimes when you have huge disagreements, especially when that disagreement or that decision is going to impact your business life and your personal life. I think we want to share a story we haven't shared before about a decision that you wanted to make and how we, you know, decided to move forward.
Yes. I mean, I'm a little nervous because we haven't shared this publicly. The decision that we debated on a lot was shutting down this podcast.
Okay. What year was this around?
This was 2019.
Yeah.
Was when we were working with Dan, SaaS Academy.
Yeah.
And I was wrong and we're still here. So let's fill in.
So tell me a little bit about why. Let's go back. Why did you want to shut down the podcast?
I thought we couldn't run the two businesses to the level I wanted. At the same time, the $100 MBA and Webinar Ninja.
Okay, why did you think the podcast and not Webinar Ninja?
Well, I mean, they're two very different business models, and you know, you learn that, you know, a media company, a podcast is completely different to a SaaS, right? And I thought at the time that, you know, I'd seen all the unicorns out there. I thought there was more potential for Webinar Ninja, right? But it didn't really— it wasn't like having to choose which one was better than the other. I literally felt that you can't do both. But I know why I was thinking that way. Like, in hindsight, for me, it was a fundamental shift in my mindset, in my, in my journey and my growth as an entrepreneur. I was still thinking very much like an operator. I thought we had to do everything, even though we had a team. I felt like if we don't do everything, then nothing can be done to the level that we want to do it. And that's not— I mean, that's an op— maybe a more of an operator mindset versus, say, an owner mindset or an investor in the business. Oh, it's not about like, oh, what I need to do. It's who, who can do it? Who can we get help from? Who can we bring in to help us do all the things that we needed to do?
Yeah. I mean, I'm going to share a couple of perspectives that maybe could add a little bit of context. So when we had this discussion, I was like, What? Like, you know how hard it is to have a successful podcast? We're like, we got lightning in a bottle and we won Best of iTunes. Like, you know, it's literally like winning an Oscar in podcasting and then saying like, okay, I won my Oscar, I'm gonna quit acting and start fishing. You know, it's like, no, we gotta keep doing this. Obviously that reaction doesn't communicate well, you know? And I started to think about, okay, how am I gonna be able to communicate my vision and communicate my perspective to Nicole in a way that actually she can receive? So two things. One thing I realized is that we were around a lot of lifestyle business type of entrepreneurs where they did everything right and they kind of worked around their schedule and they prioritized freedom and not business growth.
Yeah.
And that's not the game in SaaS and software where you are growing so that you can be acquired. So it's like pedal to the metal because you don't have unlimited time, right? So we were in a different world there and, and our podcasting friends were more lifestyle businessy, right? And podcasting has changed over the years. Now podcasts are media companies like ours and yes, they're not lifestyle businesses. So I had to consider the fact that, okay, these are the inputs you're getting, right? The second thing I realized is that I, I had to ask myself, what does Nicole value? You know, Nicole really values authority and people that have experience. And even though we've worked with each other for a very long time and we respect each other, it was going to be helpful if we got another person's opinion on this. And like you mentioned, we were working with Dan Martell as our coach in SaaS Academy who was coaching us through Webinar Ninja's growth. But we asked him this question and we had a Zoom call with him and tell us what Dan said.
Yeah, it was like a business therapy session, wasn't it?
Yeah.
When the words came out of his mouth, which literally was something to the effect of, "Don't kill something that's making you money." It was like instant, oh my God, what did I say? Of course, I get it, I get it. I mean, there was more to the conversation than that. And I, you know, we share this a bit, I shared it a bit flippantly, but I mean, it was our first business, you know, $100 MBA. And so it wasn't the willy-nilliness of just like, oh, let's just, you know, get rid of it. I mean, it was literally, you know, the desire to, okay, we just, we can't do everything. And then I realized, no, I was thinking, I was approaching it the wrong way. And through that conversation with Dan, we're still here. Yeah.
And to be honest with you, like, you know, this is a discussion that went on for months.
Yeah.
And it took a long time for us to both see each other's side of the story and opinion and perspective. And then how are we going to make sure that we both don't feel like we were forced into a decision?
Right. We had to remain on the same page, which is something I think we haven't talked about, that idea of like the relationship comes first. We're on the same page. We always come back to, Why are we doing this?
Well, we realized that the same page for us meant you just wanted to win. Like, you're like, I think we need to sacrifice the show so that we can win in business. And you know what Dan was kind of teaching us is like, hey, don't worry. You know, like you put a little couple more years into Weapon Art Ninja, you'll be able to get acquired at some point, which happened in 2024. You can then continue and then focus on the show full time.
Yeah. And it also helped us establish more systems that we didn't have. Like, I mean, working through that problem, that tension really made us get clear on, okay, what, what is it that's maybe not working? What are the gaps that we need, we need to fill? And I think we really then leaned on the team more, gave, you know, more responsibility to team members who are ready to step into those roles. And what seemed like such a huge insurmountable problem just needed, you know, a bit more massaging and some outside help as well in that, in that regard, you know, with Dan. And, and yeah, we got through it.
Yeah.
Aren't you glad we did? Oh yeah, I was so glad to be wrong.
It's rare, but yeah, it's rare that I'm wrong. Yes, it's rare that you're wrong. Yes.
Okay, good. Um, so I think that's what you meant.
Yeah, 100%. One of the things that I want to touch on is it's, it's each other's responsibility in a relationship, whether you're have a business relationship or a personal relationship, to make sure that each person is encouraging the other person to be their best and not try to change the other person, like really try to utilize their strengths. So one of the things I want to talk about is something that took me a while to fully appreciate is, you know, Nicole is very good at the things I'm very bad at, you know. So Nicole is very good at attention to detail. I'm an action taker and I don't really worry so much about the details, but that's okay when you're getting started because you're not really disappointing anybody, right? You're not breaking anything that's really valuable. But as you grow your business, as you grow your show, your podcast, whatever it might be, you know, the details matter because, uh, you know, it's what's going to differentiate you from the competition. So you're very good, you know, you know, we joke around, call you Hawkeye here in, in the business, but you really know how to find the flaws and how to make sure that we improve and You're very good at that. You're also amazing at aesthetics. Anything you see in our business, our branding, all the beautiful things you see is all credited to Nicole. I have nothing to do with that. You know, I just say, yeah, that looks cool. And that's not my forte. And it's one of the big reasons why I wanted to bring you on as a co-founder in the first place of The 100 Law MBAs, because I knew that you just graduated from film school and you have a great eye for design. And I needed somebody who had that so that we can have have great content for our program and for the podcast and all that kind of stuff. So these are some things I, I not only discovered but realized, oh, I gotta make sure that these are your number one priorities, your responsibilities in the business, because you're going to be able to take us places that I can't take us.
Thank you. Thank you for all those wonderful things. And I do think you have a good sense of aesthetics. I mean, Well, it's my turn to return the favor and genuinely, no, really share the things that I think you can do that I don't do. And one of the things I've always admired about you is the way you lead. You are someone who goes first. I mean, I'll backtrack a little bit. There were times in the business where we had to have difficult conversations with team members and you were just very happy to have those conversations, not because you relished in it in some like weird way. No, that's not it at all. But you had that kind of bravery of leadership of being able to have those difficult conversations that especially early on I really shied away from. So that was definitely something that I could not do, and I really respected and admired that you were able to do that. Even just bringing on the team, rallying the team in a way that was, you know, always— I, you know, I always say this, that I don't think people see, you know, the humorous side of you enough, and hopefully we can try and get it out of you a little bit more. But you know, the lightness, the jokes, the humor, that really helps to bring people on side when you're communicating a vision. And when you're rallying the team to get them behind you on something, that kind of attitude and that spirit really makes it a lot easier for people to back. So that is definitely something that you have, a gift that you have. The other thing that I think you have, and that for the longest time I felt was a deficiency in me that I had to make up is that you go first. I mean, that's like a true born leader, right? Someone who goes first. But then I saw, and I don't know if you'll remember Derek Sivers' TED Talk, it's like this 2-minute TED Talk where he talks about the first follower. So it's all great. We'll link to the show notes, right? We'll put it in the description so people can go and watch. It's an amazing, very short TED Talk. And the premise is that It's great to have a leader. It's great to have that person that goes first. But there's the first follower that is often underappreciated. But that first follower has to believe, and, and there's a bravery in that first follower to follow the lead of that first person. Otherwise that— and if you've watched the video, he talks about the lone nut dancing on the hill because that's what the video is about. You see this one guy who starts dancing, he's alone, and then the first the person that goes and dances with him now turns into like, and then a third person joins and then it becomes, you know, a movement. All to say that I then appreciated in myself the fact that there was value in being the number 2 supporting, you know, you as a leader in the business. And yeah, I didn't think less of that. Yeah.
And I think what I mentioned about what you said about, or what I said earlier about your attention to detail, I mean, I think it all boils down to the fact that we're opposites in a way where like, I don't worry about going first because I'm not so concerned about failing. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. And, and that's actually a good thing, but it's also a bad thing because I'm also not careful sometimes of the details that matter. And because of that, maybe you have a little bit more of that fear. Mm-hmm. You are more attentive to the details so that you try to prevent failure, uh, at a higher level, which is really important, especially as we grow the business.
That's worked for us. Because I know when to not push back too much and get too stuck into, you know, overthinking or research or, hang on, let's really think this out, and prevent us from acting. And then you've also taken on board like, okay, let me just, you know, take a moment. And I think that's really helped.
When people ask us the question, how do you work with your spouse? They are looking for some practical rules, like some, principles to follow, like, you know, don't talk about work after 6:00 PM and, you know, have a system to have date nights and, you know, there's no work involved, weekends, holidays, things like that. But the reality is, if you love business as much as we do, that's not very practical. It actually doesn't work.
It doesn't. I mean, we've tried the whole don't, no work talk at dinner. It's just not natural. It's not organic. It doesn't feel Yeah, it doesn't work.
I think what does work though is that sometimes one of us either, or we have sometimes both of us at the same time, we have like a really rough day or rough meaning it was just like full on. There's a lot to do and maybe you're just really, your brain, I call it my brain is broken. Like my brain does, the wheels are not turning anymore. And then you still have the energy to maybe have a discussion or make a decision. We should do this, you do that. Oh, tomorrow, maybe I gotta remember, I gotta tell Subin this, you know? And I'm like, I can't absorb any more information. So you can either make this a monologue, but don't ask me any questions.
Happy to go on a monologue. Go on a monologue. No, I think—
So we respect the fact that, hey, maybe this person's not receptive right now. Let's just, you know, give this person a break.
Yeah. And I think this is as simple as it is. We, one of us just says, please, no more work talk. Yeah. And that's it. It's just instant. Another rule that I think is really important, especially as you start, you know, growing a team around you and especially in the situation— this is in the context of a husband and wife or partners, um, who run a business— is how to disagree respectfully in front of the team. It's like basically mom and dad fighting in front of the kids. No.
I think both of us care so much about the business. We want to see our expectations get met, you know. We want to make sure that we fulfill what we were looking for, that sometimes that passion can be the driving force of maybe some really loud conversations sometimes. And it's not loud like we're angry, you know, they're just loud because there's a lot of energy behind it. Sometimes just you and I, you know.
Yes.
So a lot of people that don't know that would be a little bit like, what's this? What's going on? Like, are we all in trouble? You know, like, is the business collapsing right now? No. And I think that we had to be mindful of the fact that we can't have those conversations in front of the team because they're not ready for that, or they're not really understanding what's behind that.
I think it's important when there's two people at the helm in a way that in front of the team, there has to be stability. They know where we're going. They know what we're doing. I think if you don't have a solid foundation, if there is a sense of chaos or instability or disagreement, I think that's unsettling. I think I don't think that's, that's healthy.
Yeah.
And so it's as simple as you and I just getting on the same page about— I mean, we're talking about big decisions. We're talking about, you know, the direction of the company, the direction of the company, strategy, goals, mission. Those things are really important for us to be aligned and to not have any disagreement and to not, not be on the same page.
We got to hash it out. Yeah.
So those questions have to be agreed upon and not really something that you to explore and discuss in front of the team because I just don't think it's helpful. Yeah, that's just—
that's true. But I also see from the perspective of like, these discussions are quite heavy. They're quite— it takes a lot of energy to actually have these discussions. And I don't think it's anybody's responsibility other than ours. You know, like, I don't want to burden anybody else with that. They didn't sign up for that. Like, I didn't sign up to, you know, be in this heated argument, you know? And, you know, sometimes it is, I say argument, sometimes it is an argument because we're still trying to figure out how we were supposed to approach this conversation. And we're still just kind of, you know, not seeing eye to eye yet. And I think it's good to kind of hash it out first. Of course, when we're in front of other people publicly, we try to be, you know, maximum respect. And I think even privately, we're very respectful, but I think the filter's a little bit off sometimes where we get the chance to just like, You can just give it all you got and be as passionate as you want and be your Italian self. And I'm not going to judge you for that.
I was going to say, when are we going to bring in the cultural aspect here of saving face?
But if you weren't passionate, I would be worried. Like, why is this person not caring about this topic? Like, I want her to fight for her argument, you know?
But I think we've learned to— again, relationship comes first, the business and those decisions. I think we are able to create a bit of distance. And be objective.
So that leads us to really the crux of the answer of what we're trying to deliver to Carrie and everybody listening. It's like, how do you actually work with your spouse without sacrificing the relationship? And I think the work part needs to be figured out as well as the relationship part. And what I mean by that is that we need to be on the same page. You have the same values, the same direction, like we have to have the same mission together. Like, it's very hard to work with somebody that closely and not have a shared mission, have a shared vision for what we wanna get out of this journey together. And I think that one of the things that we like to do a lot is just check in, like, are you okay with this? Especially when we're making changes, we're transitioning, like, now we're in a new studio, we have a physical office, we have, you know, local teammates, new people in our team. So like, it's good for us to make sure, like, hey, is this still something that you want? Is this still something that gets you excited?
I always come back to this analogy, I suppose, of the two sunflowers in their independent pots growing and facing the same direction. And what do I mean by this? It's like, and I think it comes down to Carrie's question, like, how can you work with someone that maybe thinks differently or operates differently You love them and all, but working together, it's a different dynamic. I think we've said that we are different. We are opposites in many ways. So we've retained that individuality, our little stems in our little pots, but we're facing in the same direction.
Yes.
Because that's our mission. That's our why. We're on the same page about that. I think that's just helpful to always reconcile those differences and embrace different ways of being, you know, you're a different person than I am. That's of course, right? It's a given. We don't have to be the same, even if we are leading the same company. But we're going the same direction.
Yes.
And we're growing in the same direction in our individual pots.
There are a lot of positives working with your significant other. One of them actually, when people ask me like, how do you work with your wife. And I sometimes wonder, how do you not work with your wife? Like, how do you come home from work and she kind of doesn't understand the environment you just came out of, the problems that you're going through? You know, I think it's interesting that we both fully understand what our professional lives are like because we're working together. When we're on holiday and we're having a good time, we're skiing in Japan, and we get a message that, oh, we got to do an ad read, you know that this is important. And when I have to go and do the ad read back in the hotel, you're not saying, "Oh gosh, you know, his job is taking us away from the family or our time together." I'm setting up the doona and the pillows and making sure that we've got good sound. Exactly, like you got my back. Like you feel for me and understand that, okay, we need to do this. You know, this is not something that you're just like running away to do your little work, you know?
Yeah. And look, I've always said, oh my gosh, if you can build a business with your significant other, you're one of the luckiest people in the world. But I hope that we've shared and we've given the sense of the fact that there's— there can be disagreements, there could be tension, there can be arguments, all of that. It's not just a cakewalk and it's the best way to be. There's no one way to be like it's worked for us. And honestly, this is just answering the question for anyone who, you know, might be thinking about working and building a business with their partner. I hope we've given the two sides of it. But I do think, you know, I feel very grateful that we get to do this together, that we get to build, you know, and have a team around us. And it's just— it's a— it's a fun way of getting to do what we love to do, you know?
Yeah. And I have one more positive that we haven't mentioned yet. Okay. And this is a little bit of a deeper one. I think that by working together, by building a business together, you can't help but be very transparent with each other, whether it's your thoughts, how you feel about things, but also just your financials. Everything is out in the open. You understand like how much you're making and how much we have to spend and how much we're saving, how much we're investing. Like this is all very, very a collaboration. I don't think a lot of relationships are like that. You know, I've met couples that have no idea what their spouse makes. They don't, they don't know the financial burdens they have, whether it's debt or whatever, blah, blah, blah. By building something together, it's kind of like we started together from scratch. We understand what we're working towards. I support your goals, vice versa. Even those financial goals, even if those financial goals include like, hey, I would love to go on this holiday, or I'd like to take this course, or I'd like to, you know, invest in this product or whatever it might be. Because we both understand the financial position we're in, you know, no one's going to ask something that is gonna hurt us. And we're all, and the vice versa is like, I understand that, hey, of course we could afford that. Go ahead, let's do that. You know, so along the journey, I think that really helped to have that transparent, uh, relationship.
Basically, you don't check my spending.
Well, I've learned to understand that you are a wise spender.
I am a wise spender.
Yeah.
We'll leave it at that.
Yeah, exactly.
No, no, no, I am.
So you love a good recap, Nicole. Nicole's very sentimental. She likes to, you know, recap every moment and memory. I'm somebody who kind of zooms through life, but she reminds me to kind of enjoy the moment, which is great. So just to recap today's episode, some of my favorite things about working with you and the things that we shared is we're very honest about what we want to get out of our business relationship, make sure that we are on the same page. I think that we support each other. I think when you want the other person to win just as much as you want to win, that makes a great relationship, whether it's business or otherwise.
Yeah, I think the most important thing that we've realized is there's no place for ego. And this journey teaches you that.
It's very humbling.
It's humbling because there's, you know, I love a good I told you so moment. I love to be right. But I'm also, you know, I've learned that it's okay to be wrong. And I learned so much. Every time I'm wrong, there's no room for ego. If we want to see each other win, there's no chance of sacrificing the relationship. That's true. That's probably the answer right there.
Yeah, because you want to see each other happy, you want to see each other fulfilled. 100%. Awesome. Well, just to wrap up, thank you, Nicole, for being here and joining me here on Q&A Wednesday. It was good to have somebody on a show on— we've never done a Q&A Wednesday together, so it's kind of nice to have you on this format.
I had fun. I hope our audience enjoyed this episode. Yeah, would love to hear feedback. Would love to hear what you guys think.
Thank you, Carrie, for asking today's question here on Q&A Wednesday. Remember, if you want to submit a question, just go to 100mba.net/q, submit your question. I read every single question and we consider them to make sure that we can grab those questions and try to incorporate them in any lesson, but especially here on Q&A Wednesday. If you enjoy this podcast and you want more and you want to continue to learn and build upon what you learned today, we have a recent episode. It was about 2 weeks ago, uh, where I discuss and share how I found my co-founder, Nicole. How did I discover that this is the person I want to go to in business with, who I want to collaborate with, who I want to kind of make sure that I reach my goals with? You know, we talked about complementing each other's skills. So if you want to check out that episode, go ahead. It's called How I Found My Co-Founder. Thanks so much for tuning in. Thanks for being part of the show. Thanks for making it to the end because You're the person that wants to see something all the way to the end. You're gonna make it all right in business. I'm rooting for you. Take care. I'll see you next time. Bye everyone.
