119. Building Strong Small-Town Businesses with Aly Robins

Our guest on today's episode is Allie Robbins. Allie is a marketing and business coach, and she works primarily in the agricultural sector, but also just does this work for small town businesses like mine and like a lot of you that listen to this show. You're gonna love Allie's approach. You're gonna love Allie's, not only her competence, but her general demeanor about how important it is that small businesses, even in small towns, we really talk a lot about the fact that a digital presence is not only important, but it's almost necessary in this day and age. Like oftentimes I'm working with small business owners and they don't think it's important because, well, I'm just a brick and mortar and this is all that matters. And so we have a good discussion about that. She also has some foundational things that need to be in place for businesses to be successful, and she covers an overview of those. All the links to everything, Allie, are in the show notes. This is one of those things that if you run a small business, you're gonna wanna take some notes. So please enjoy this chat with my friend Allie Robbins.

Well, hey Allie, welcome to the Growing Small Town Show.

Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here after finding out about your show and like what you're doing through Cassidy. I was like, oh, we've gotta chat. This is good.

Yeah, it is good. Cassidy is, uh, again, for my listeners, she's been on the podcast now as well, talking about what it looks like to be a virtual assistant. In small towns, um, and Cassidy never steers me wrong. She's connected me with some great people, so it's super fun. And again, like, oh, the internet, look at what we can do. Isn't that great?

Yep.

So why don't we start, Allie, by telling the listeners a little bit more? Of course they will have heard your intro, but just like, what do you do? How do you do it? Why do you do it? And of course, where? Because it's all about small towns, right?

Yeah. So I live in Lewistown, Montana, which is about I would say probably 7,000 people, central Montana. And I am a business and marketing coach for agriculture and rural businesses. So I really help businesses, whether they are virtually or locally. I really help them get their marketing set up correctly, online marketing, as well as just the backend of their business. Because what I was finding, so that's where the business coaching kind of came in.

Sure.

Because what I was finding is we would do a lot of great marketing work and then their business couldn't handle either all the sales coming in or they couldn't keep up with the marketing because they didn't have good systems and processes in place. And so the marketing was a waste of time and money. And so that's when I started to really realize people just need help with their overall business. Like, how do you set up a successful business? You know, because there's like a high percentage of a number of businesses that fail within the first 5 years.. And so how do you become the statistics that succeeds? So I go heavily into learning all about business. I have two businesses myself, and so I have a local business as well as an online business. And so I know a lot about like what the backend really needs to look like. And so that's how I help my clients. I work with a lot, like I said, a lot of ag businesses, whether they are directly involved in ag or they work with agriculture businesses, as well as the just rural-based businesses.

So.

Whether you work in ag or not, because what it comes down to is just the business basics and the foundations of growing a business. So that is what I do.

Okay. So there's a couple of things that I'd love to dive a little deeper into with you. Again, thinking about our audience, most of the time people that listen to this podcast either are in community development, so they care about this from the standpoint that our small towns need great businesses, right? Locally owned businesses to be thriving and successful. But a lot of times the people listening to this are, are really just the people that are trying to do cool stuff in their small town. And oftentimes entrepreneurship is the way to do that, right? So one of the things that you said, I think, can we talk a little bit about really the difference between good marketing? Like what is good marketing? What pieces of business really roll up to this big broad topic of marketing? And then I can't wait to hear a little bit more because I think The fact that you just said, I can get all the eyeballs on your stuff in the world, which is successful marketing, right? My, there's air quotes, like it's successful if more people know about you or searching your website or coming and doing whatever. And then you were actually finding that people weren't prepared for that kind of extra attention. That's fascinating. And I wanna come back to that, but can we start with marketing just in general? Because again, I think marketing is like one of these big broad terms. And this isn't just a small town thing, but you, like, I have a business degree. Okay. I went to a 4-year school and I have a business degree. I didn't come out of my college experience being like a good marketer.

You know what I mean?

I maybe took some sort of overview of marketing, but I just think it's an often misunderstood, perhaps, topic, especially for small town business owners. Like, why do we need to market? Everybody knows I'm here. I've heard these things. Said, right? So let's talk about marketing first, and then we'll come back to backend processes.

Yeah, absolutely. That's a great point, because a lot of people think marketing is, you know, pretty logos and maybe some nice signs, and it's actually nothing about that. When I was first starting to learn about marketing, I'm like, well, what is marketing? Because it is very broad, it's very big topic, but it's hard to like figure out what actually is good marketing. And when I was first starting my business, of course I had to market my own services. I also own a website business, I should say, where I help people build their website. And so that was like my first thing and first business. And I was like, how do I land sales? And I had no idea how to market myself and I didn't even know what that meant. And so I hired a business coach myself and she was dove headfirst into marketing with me. And what she helped me figure out is when it comes to marketing is how are you talking to your potential clients and customers and how are you showing them that you can solve their problem? That's all that marketing is. It's very crystal clear messaging that shows people exactly who you help, how you help them, and the transformation you provide. When I think about successful marketing, I think about if it's successful, then you're landing sales. That's all I think about. I don't get into the nitty-gritty of good, you know, branding and logo yet. That's later down the road. But you got to get some sales in the door. You got to figure out what your, you know, clients, what their pain points are, what people are struggling with. Because as a business owner, you're solving a problem. It doesn't matter if you own a local boutique or if you're an online business, you're solving a problem because that's how people are going to remember you. That's how they're going to refer you is when they think of somebody's problem or they're talking about a problem, they're like, oh, Ali, you know, she can help you with that. Or Rebecca, she can help you with that. That's how I think of successful marketing, because that's what it comes down to is people, you know, especially like on your website and social media, we're blasted with all this information online. How does your marketing stand out from somebody else's? What always goes back to, are you talking about your customer or your client, or are you talking about yourself? Most agriculture businesses, like I always pick on the beef industry because I'm heavily involved in the beef industry. My husband is a ranch hand and so they always talk about themselves. They just love talking about the history of their business and how they, you know, they homesteaded here. And I love that too. But when you're trying to get people's attention, they don't necessarily care about your business. They care about themselves. And so you really have to touch on those pain points. I always like to talk about the marketing funnel. When you're trying to get more people's attention and more eyes on your marketing or your website or social media, get people to follow you, you gotta talk about that top funnel, top of the funnel inside of your marketing, which is really talking about the pain points and the struggles and what your customer wants. And as they get into the funnel, then you maybe can talk about your history and you know where you came from as a business, but people don't care about that at first. They really wanna know What's in it for me? How are you going to help me? And so that's what I think about when it comes to successful marketing. It's really having a crystal clear message. And when we talk about message, we're talking about the words on your website or on your social media posts or on even on your banners if you're going to a convention, because a lot of marketing is confusing. Meaning like if you drive down the interstate and you see these big billboards, right? And you're like, I don't even know what that means. Like when people, they have a simple message across that billboard and you know, by the time you pass it, you're like, I don't, like, what are they trying to say? That's not very successful marketing because the person doesn't know what you're trying to say and you haven't given them a call to action. And so it's essentially a waste of money. So that's the same with your website. It's the same with social media. If you're, if the words on your website are super confusing, people are not able to move forward because they don't know what you're trying to say. They don't know what you're talking about. And so that's what it comes back to. It has nothing to do with, like I said, pretty pictures and stuff yet. Comes back to what are you trying to say and to who?

Yes.

So let's dive a little bit deeper. So if people are listening to this and they're like, okay, like, great, the things that I feel like I see with words in particular, there's this tendency, I think, in every single one of us to sound somehow better than we are. Like, we have this tendency to wanna like fancy up our language. The way I've talked about this is like, that's fat and formal, like more words and it's formalized. Like, if it doesn't, especially if you're a service provider, I'll say this, if it's not the way you are going to speak to them, then okay. So I always say like, you can't fake your way into a real relationship. And that's the same with customers and businesses, right? So If we're attracting them with language that we don't actually use in working with them, that's like a first thing to look at is if you wouldn't say the things out loud to a customer that are on your website, then that's a good place to start, right? I mean, seriously, like, and the whole confusing thing, right? I think we just get this idea in our heads that we need to sound somehow like sexier or something. It's like actually just super simple language works the best.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And that's a good point. That's another thing that a lot of like website developers do, you know, when they create a website is they put on kind of this witty language or this really— they want to sound really smart. And then ultimately, and I'm not even— most people don't even read your website, they're just scanning it. And so they're like, what does that word mean? Or what is that person trying to say? They're gone. They're not going to buy from you because they have no idea what you're trying to say. And they're just looking to solve their problem subconsciously. And so That's what it comes down to is like, what are you, you know, what do you want to say? So when I work with my clients, I'll just ask them questions like that. Like, what does your business do? How do you help people? What are the common symptoms that your clients or customers experience? Or what are some of the pain points that they have? And then we take those exact words and we put them on the website. When I'm coaching them and they're either going to do their own social media or fix their own website, then I will have them go do some market research, meaning I'll just go have them talk to their their current customers and clients, or maybe if they haven't sold to anybody yet, I'll go and have them seek out some people that they would potentially want to work with and just start asking them a whole bunch of questions and record it, right? Because we think we're gonna remember it, but we don't. But record it and then go back and take those exact words out of their mouth and put it on your website because that's what's going to attract more of those people. It's actually very, very simple.

Right, right. We just get in our heads. We get in our heads about it. Right. So the other thing, there's two other things that I want to dive into for this piece is knowing who you're talking to. So how do you kind of guide business owners to thinking about who they're actually serving? Because the biggest challenge, one of the biggest challenges I think is like in a small community, especially if you have a brick and mortar along with maybe an online presence, we end up just saying, well, I'm here for the community. Like I serve everybody. But when we actually design a business to serve everybody, chances are we may serve nobody, right? Like, we really have to think about that. So do you have any tips or thoughts about how you kind of help people arrive at who this person might be that they should be speaking to?

Yeah, absolutely. That's the exact thing is like, if you're trying to work with everybody or serve everybody, you're not gonna serve anybody because nobody's gonna resonate with your messaging and with what you do, right? I, when I first started my business, this was me. I'm like, oh, I'm gonna serve small business owners. I'm gonna help small business owners with their website. And my business coach was like, okay, that doesn't tell me much. Like everybody's a small business, right? You have to make what, like $15 million or less or something? Some ungodly high amount of money.

Yeah. The number of people in that category, right? It's just like, Huge.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so first you can't create crystal clear messaging if you don't know who you're trying to serve. And when I'm working with people on helping them narrow down who they're trying to serve, we really start with like, who is it that you want to work with and who do you not want to work with? Because this is the same thing with small town business owners. There's a pool of people that I don't want to work with because I call them cheapo people, meaning they want everything for cheap and they want everything for free.

Yeah.

They don't wanna pay my prices and they don't, you know, they just want everything for free. And that's just not who I wanna work with for a number of reasons. So that's who I kind of help them figure out, like, who do you not wanna work with? And then we dive into, okay, who is it that you wanna work with? It doesn't have to be like a specific ideal client. I know in the online world that's, you know, kind of pushed a lot.

Yeah, it is. Yeah.

Your identity. And, and you need to niche down what your business is. And I was working with a local photographer and she was struggling with that. Like, when you're in a small town, you can't necessarily narrow down to just weddings, right? As a photographer. Because you have many other clients that don't necessarily need weddings. And two, your small town is just not big enough to just be a wedding photographer. Now, if you're working in LA, that's probably going to be just fine. But when you have a town of 6,000 people, maybe you tweak your messaging to, I'm a photographer for families, or I'm a photographer for your entire life. Like I document your entire life. So that's kind of what, how I helped her narrow down who she wants to work with along with her messaging. We kind of took out, don't even worry about your ideal client, but really focus on what's the problem you're solving and for who, because your ideal client pool might be rather big. However, if it's the similar problem that you're solving, then more people is gonna resonate with, yes, that's my problem. And so I helped her dive into like, cuz she's my photographer, like I'm her ideal client, so it was really easy. But we talked about like, what were the problems that I was experiencing? And I just started talking to her about, you know, I really wanted a reliable photographer because I don't wanna have to chase, you know, the photographer around and say, hey, where's my photos? I want them to show up on time. I have a busy schedule, so They need to be reliable. So those were all the pain points and worries and problems that I was experiencing. And so she just was able to take that into account and now she can apply it to all of her services in terms of she's a wedding photographer, like a family photographer, maternity, you know, newborn. And so instead of thinking I have to serve like one person, let's just think about the problem you're solving first and then because then that's just the overarching starting point. And then we can dive into your pricing and then dive into your messaging. But that's really important when it comes to your small town. And it's like, what's the problem you're solving? We're trying to be of service here. You know, we're not just owning a business just to own a business. We're really trying to solve a problem. And that's also where the business coaching side comes in. Maybe we need to tweak your offer just a little bit or tweak your business model. A little bit so it actually solves that problem. So it's actually serving your community and your potential customers and clients rather than the other way around, if that makes sense, where you're just like, I really just want to do this thing. And it's like, if it's not solving anybody's problem, that's really hard for you to sell it because in all reality, people will pay for somebody to solve their problem. And so it's kind of hard.

It is. This is hard. I mean, I think this is actually a really hard part about business development for people. Because again, even thinking like, okay, trying to think, get in your head and think clearly about what problem am I solving? So the example of your photographer, it's not just that the problem is that you need photos taken. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's gotta be deeper than that. Then as a customer, what problems have you had in working with other photographers that this particular photographer may solve? And I think that's hard for people because it's— maybe I'm wrong, Allie. I don't feel like the average person that starts a business goes, this is the problem in the marketplace and I'm gonna solve that problem. It's more like, like you said, like, I just have a passion for doing this thing. And that's great. I mean, ideally, yeah, you love your business, you love what you're doing, but if it doesn't actually make a person's life easier, better, they make more money, they reduce expense. There's something that has to happen, but sometimes tying it back to that, I think, is really challenging for people.

It's very challenging. This is where I love business coaching, because when you start asking those questions to my clients, their wheels start to turn, and then they're able to start thinking about business in this way. You're right. Most people just want to start a local boutique because they love clothing or they love coffee or to start a coffee shop.

Yeah.

And when you dive into the business world, it's hard. And this is one of the hard things is it's not actually all about what you want to do. It's all about your customer and your client. That is how you're going to land sales. And so, yeah, most people go into business like not thinking about the problem they're solving. I would say that's more like on the entrepreneur side where people are, you know, Entrepreneurs really think about business in that way, and that's why some of them are so successful. But when you dive into becoming a business owner, you know, all of these foundational pieces are essential to growing and eventually scaling. And so that's why I think it's so important to get into the room with other like-minded business owners or in the room with people who have been where you're trying to go because they know what to do and what not to do. But when you're trying to, you know, create that type of offer that actually serves, like I said, it has nothing to do with you and what you actually want. And that's where it does get hard because I do remember I was first starting my business and I was like, I don't know what the problem is I solve. I just create websites. That's what I do. I'm just here to help people get their website off, you know, and their website to look good. And it was so hard until she started asking me these questions and getting me in a mindset of How am I helping make their life easier? What's the transformation you're providing? Because that's how people will remember you. That's how they will think, oh, this was worth it, right? This, whether it's a coffee or it's a website, what's the transformation you're providing them? Because in all reality, we want to create a business that's transformational instead of just transactional, right? And because that's going to help not only your life, it's going to help their life and it's going to ultimately help your community. This is where the foundations come in to helping you grow a business that not only helps you but also everyone around you. And it's just a different way of thinking about business. It's really getting into, like I said, those mindset and those foundations and ensuring that you're actually helping people make their life easier.

How do you work with a small business owner that maybe the problem that they're trying to solve for somebody, like the customer, the client's not problem aware?

Yeah, so that's a good question because most people are not problem aware. So for example, yep, my clients, they think that they have a marketing problem when in all reality they have a business foundation problem. But I'm gonna talk about marketing because that's top of mind for them. I'm going to say, here's how you can fix your marketing, here's what you can work on, you know, here's social media template, whatever, because that's what they're— they don't think they have a business foundation problem, they think they're fine, right? But get into my world, I'm getting them into that top of the funnel because I'm talking about marketing, marketing, marketing. And then when we get into the funnel and they're working with me, they maybe bought a course or maybe they're doing some one-on-one coaching, they're like, oh, they realize, oh, I do have a business foundation problem. Oh, this is starting to make sense. But at the top of the funnel, they're not thinking about any of those things. So don't talk about those things because you're not gonna attract them.

You'll, you'll lose them. Yeah. Yeah. I just think that's something that's interesting. I even think about the work that we do at Growing Small Towns, right? Like there's a lot of the things that I believe our communities need that I don't know the average person in our community knows that they need. Right. So then just figuring out how do you meet your client where they are and what does top of funnel actually look like? Can you explain just the value of thinking about a marketing funnel? Like what that means for people that have never heard of a funnel or maybe have only heard it from like Russell Brunson, which is a super— he's the digital guy, right? And it's like you're only one funnel away and it's so much of it is so trite and it's so hard for people to wrap their brains around. Because I think there's value in thinking about it this way. Can you just do a quick rundown of like what a funnel is and what the point of it is and how to think about it?

Yeah. So it doesn't matter if you are marketing online or just marketing like at a convention. A marketing funnel is really walking through your customer journey, like through the entire journey before they ever buy from you until the last conversation you have with them before you send them on their merry way. It's really diving into how humans work, how humans think, how they function, and what makes them buy this thing over this thing. Getting into kind of the psychology of human.

Yeah.

That's kind of what a marketing funnel is. And so when we talk about like an actual funnel, we kind of have 3 different tiers. That first tier is how are people finding you and what are the words you're saying to get them into your world? How are they hitting that follow button on Instagram? How are they deciding that they want to visit your website and what's helping them move forward when they're on the website? What's helping them move forward in working with you?

Or real quick, real quick, I want to just for clarity's sake, cuz like you and I are looking at each other, right? Our audience can't see us. So the top of the funnel is the widest part of the funnel. It's what we'd consider cold traffic, right? Like people that don't know you exist, how do you get them, like you said, into your world? And I think like that question of what are you doing social media for? Is it to get them to follow you? And then what does following you mean next for them, right? Or if it's on your website, is what you want them to do is to like subscribe to your email updates. Again, just like, what are you asking them to do next? Right? Like, so you have all this stuff that you're sharing out in the world and somebody's saying, oh my gosh, that's me. And then they go out and they read your post and they follow. Now they're in your funnel, right? That biggest open top. That's what top of funnel means. And that again, it's just because we're using these, like, we're using these physical images with each other. It sometimes can be hard to translate in audio. So go ahead.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Yeah, that's exactly it. And I guess let's just use Instagram because there's so many different funnels we can talk about, right? Well, let's use Instagram for an example. So how are you get that top of funnel, right? How are you getting them to hit the follow button? There's so many people on Instagram. There's so much content out there. What makes you stand out? Well, what you wanna think about is top of mind. What's top of mind for your customer? What's their biggest pain points and symptoms that they're experiencing right now that they can resonate with? Obviously we might see, you know, especially if you're working with clients, we might see a lot of other problems that we know they need to fix, but they're not thinking about that. So don't even talk about that yet. How are you creating reels? If you are an Insta— if you're familiar with Instagram, you know that Instagram pushes reels. And so how are you creating reels? What are you saying in the reels? What type of content is it? And how often are you pushing that out? That's what the top of the funnel is. Okay. So that's Let's say that your Reels, now somebody's following you because they're, they like your Reels. You said something that hit a nerve or that sparked interest. So now they're kind of in that second funnel, right? Where they are part of the funnel.

Yeah.

Which is more of that narrow. And if we're talking like I'm using my hands, size, then, yeah. So now they're like kind of interested in what you're saying. They're like, this person might have something that I might want, or I just really like what they're talking about. Now you can start talking on your stories about stuff that's even more into depth about their pain points and symptoms and problems, and they're really starting to get to know you. This is where that relationship is really starting to build, and it's important for you to nurture that relationship. It's not their job to nurture the relationship. It's your job as the business owner. So now that you are starting to post, maybe I call 'em stagnant posts, but just like carousel posts, you're talking about who you are, you're talking about the problem you're solving, you're talking about how you're helping helping people, now that bottom of the funnel is where they're gonna start to buy from you. And there's like some tactics that you can do, you know, to move them into the bottom of the funnel to actually get them to buy. But that's kind of how I think of an online marketing funnel, whether it's your website or Instagram. There's a ton of different kind of strategies and funnels we can go into, but overall marketing In general, we always wanna start at the top of the funnel. So when you think about marketing on billboards or even at a, like a local brick and mortar, you know, what are the words that you're saying when people are driving by? Because that's where they're at. They're in the top of the funnel. They don't really know anything about you. And so most likely you need to be talking about their problems and pain points and what they want. So we can get so into the weeds in this, but—

Oh, I know. It's such a big topic. I mean, it's such a big topic. Like the explanation of the marketing funnel would be helpful just because I—

Oh, yeah, it's great.

No, it's great. And I think so what I love about what you're talking about, Allie, is that we're talking about the psychology of humans. I mean, then this is why I think this is so important is because we have to take like ourselves and our ego out of our business somewhat and ask like some of the questions that I love to ask when I'm thinking about these things. And I mean, okay, like this is a broader context besides business. It's like, If you host an event in a community like mine, right? I'm in a town of 1,800 people, pretty small town. The question that we have to ask ourselves is what do people currently think, feel, and believe about us, about our thing, about our organization? In this case, it'd be about your business. What do we need them to think, feel, and believe? Because our thoughts, feelings, and beliefs are the things that drive our actions, and our actions drive whether or not they become customers. So this is, to me, it's every step of that way just going, okay, If they say, okay, yep, I wanna engage with this now, have we changed their thoughts, feelings, and beliefs? It's all just this beautiful opportunity to really connect with people on a level that causes them to take action. We can't force people to buy anything from us, right? So it's just this, it's a fascinating thing. I don't think we talk about it enough that if we're in business, we're just simply trying to help humans and humans behave in a very specific way. And it's our job to speak to that, right?

Yeah. It's so interesting that you bring that up, you know, just about even community events, because that's what it comes down to. I've done a lot of like in-person workshops or, you know, speeches where I talk about this type of marketing. And somebody that was listening, one of the workshops I was putting on, she's like, wow, this is really interesting stuff. I think I could use it for my gardening club. You know, she's like 85 years old and she's like, We're having a hard time getting people into our garden club, and I don't know how to get more young people, you know, like you, into this club. And she's like, but I'm going to take this framework and I'm going to use this exact thing and apply it to this because I think I can, you know, it just makes sense. I'm like, that's a great idea. So not only does it apply to business, it can apply to anything you're doing because you're right, you have to take yourself out of the equation when it comes to marketing. As humans, we naturally just want to talk about ourselves all the time. It's just how humans work. But you have to make a conscious effort to say, okay, we're not talking about ourself here. You know, how can we— if we're promoting a community event or we're promoting a fundraiser, how can we talk about the people who are donating and how can we cater to them? That's what marketing is. It's not talking all about your fundraise. It's important to talk about obviously what the fundraiser is for, but this is how it's going to help you, or this is how it's going this is going to help the community, or this is how you get— really get some clear messaging in place to market your fundraiser or market your event, and you're going to get a lot more people involved. But it starts with taking yourself out of the equation.

And I am thinking too, I think about the fact that people won't just— like, we can't just say to people, you're gonna feel this way, and then they feel that way. We have this cool opportunity when we're like— this is about influence, right? It's influencing the behavior of other people— is to think about how do we offer an opportunity that they experience that, they experience the thing, and then those feelings get generated on their own. Because when we feel those things ourselves, it's different than if you tell me I should feel it, right? That's really deep, and I get like how complicated that can be. But when we're talking events and like communities and I mean, my goodness, churches can use this. Every group that is trying to influence people to take a different action, in this case, either join or attend or whatever. Man, we have so much power, but we can't make it about what we want or what we think. It's about thinking about what do they need to think, feel, and believe, right? So it's super fascinating. Okay. I think that's like enough of a, some good teasers for, for marketing. Cuz by the way, in the show notes, we'll put all the links to you. If people are like, oh my gosh, how do I get Ali in my life? Well, we'll make sure that happens. That's what we're here to do. Let's talk a bit about that kind of second problem, or maybe it's like the real problem, but it presents itself as marketing. And you talked about backend systems kind of not being robust enough or thoughtful enough to handle business that comes their way. So let's talk about that a little bit. What does that look like for the average small town small business owner?

Yeah, so I like to break it into 4 different kind of buckets or pillars. So the 4 areas that I like to talk about when it comes to any type of business is leadership, your offer, marketing and sales, and business management. Like I talked about before, if you think that you have a marketing problem, most likely it's you. You do probably, but you also have an offer problem and you have a leadership problem and you have a business management problem, right? It's really, really important to set those business foundations up correctly. Because like I said before, you might have great marketing, you might spend $3,000 on marketing with Marketing Coach, get your Instagram up, your website up, but then you start landing sales and you're— the back end of your business is a mess because you don't have any systems and processes in place to deliver properly to the customers or the clients you're working with. But it all goes back to leadership. That's why I talked about it first, is because where is your business going and why? I have worked with many businesses that are just, they're just existing. They're just like, well, I just really like to do this. This is fun. And if you're going to become a business owner, it's time to get some leadership in place because you are leading a business or you potentially might be leading a team. And so you need to have those skills and the mindset of a leadership or of a leader in order to lead the business where you want it to go. This is your business. This is the great, thing about owning a business is it can look whatever you want. You can take it wherever. You can have as many team members in place or as little team members in place, right? What do you want your business to look like? So let's start there, because in all reality, owning a business takes a lot of mindset work. It takes becoming self-aware of who you are. I always like to use the Enneagram because that gives you a lot of insights of how God has created you and who you actually are. Because I think a lot of, you know, I think society kind of puts us in this box. And I know that this is how I felt, at least when I was starting my business. We're kind of put in this box. And the things that people always critique you on are often your biggest skill sets and your biggest, I guess, skills. Like you could say strengths. Strengths.

Yeah.

Strengths. Yeah.

Okay.

And And so really just owning who you are, figuring out who you are, become socially and self-aware is going to allow you to step into the leader that you need to become in order to grow this business that you want. Because, you know, usually the way people like, the way they behave and act and make decisions now is not going to be the same as if they are making six figures or even seven figures. It just really takes that mindset shift along with making different decisions in the business. And so what does leadership look like for them and how can they step into this role that they need to become in order to then create a great offer? Because like I said, if you're socially aware, now you can start taking yourself out of the equation and stop maybe being so self-centered, which again, it's nothing.

It's nature. It's human nature. Yeah.

Yeah.

That's not a dig. That's, You're just being a human when you do that, right? Like, that's who we are by nature. Yeah.

So then we can dig into your offer and start to, to audit it. Or if you haven't created it yet, we can start to create it and we can go down to what's the problem you're solving? How is this helping people? What's the transformation you're providing? Is it easy to buy your offer or are you making it really difficult? That's a lot of what I experienced too with these you know, especially small town business owners. Some people don't even have a Google My Business. I'm like, I can't find you, so I can't buy from you if I cannot find you. We function on the internet now. So really diving deep into your offer. And if we need to take some things out, let's take some things out. If we need to add some things, let's add some things. And then even going into the customer journey, like what does the customer journey look like and how are you delivering your offer? Because I think, like I said before, a lot of businesses, it's just transactional. They'll take your money and then they kind of ghost you or they don't, you know, fully deliver. And that's so frustrating to me. And if we're trying to build a small town up, you better deliver on the service that you committed to when somebody paid you. And so making sure that that's the systems and processes are in place in the backend of your business so you fully deliver on what you're promising. Then we can go into marketing sales because once you have a really good offer, and you know exactly the problem it's solving, you know who it's for, you know what the transformation is, your marketing is so easy. And then once you have a good clear message in place for your marketing, your sales are even easier. You don't even have to sell because people are like, here's my money, I want to work with you because your marketing is so on point. And then of course, that business management side, like, like I said, how are you staying consistent on your marketing? Do you have a system and process in place to consistently be pumping out content or updating your website? Like, how are you getting reminded that you need to do that? Along with what does it look like to fully deliver, like I said, on that offer? How are you managing your team if you have a team in place? There's so many moving parts to a business. And if you think about it, if I would've talked about all of those things at first, it would've just gone over everybody's head. And so that's why I can't talk about all those things at first. I have to talk about marketing because that's the thing that they can relate to. So that's where the, the backend of the business, business foundations, it's so important in order to have a fully successful marketing campaign or whatever you're trying to do with your marketing. And that's where I'm really passionate too, because I have experienced so many terrible, like services and products right in my own town. And it's frustrating because I still have to run my business. So for example, we also own a car wash and a lot of the car wash equipment and we need it to be worked on and we will send it to one of the businesses and we'll check in in a week. Oh, I forgot about it. I'll get to it next week. Oh, I forgot about it. I'll get to it. And it's like, I still have a business to run myself. And I guess as a Type 8 Enneagram, I'm a little bit like, let's go. I don't have time for you to be, you know, like this because I still have to run my business and my life. And so this is also kind of like a selfish thing for me, like I became a business coach because I was tired of the crappy services I was getting right in my own town. And I don't think it's their fault. Like, they just don't know how to properly run a business. And I have a lot of empathy for them because I was once there. And so that's where I feel like having somebody just guide you, it's a total game changer. Some people don't even know that this exists. And so this is, this is a clear example of not being problem aware.

Is what you're describing, right? Like, and it's fascinating because I feel like I see this all the time too. And I don't know if you struggle with this, but sometimes I'm like, I want it so much for them that I sometimes actually think I want it more for them than they want it for themselves. That's good boundaries that Rebecca has to put in place. Like, I have to put those boundaries in place because you can't— I can't want your business to be more successful than you do. It's not going to work. But I think you're speaking to something that I think is really important because we're talking about this is like one of my least favorite words to describe this, but like the ecosystem in which our small business owners engage, right? We all, if we're in community development, you're not necessarily in community development, but yes, you are. Okay. Like you're, the work you're doing is super critical to the overall vibrancy of Lewistown and anywhere else where your clients live, right? It's a really big deal, Ali. I think it's critical. But talking about this and reminding our small business owners too, That somebody said to me once, like, nobody's entitled to a successful small business. And I think that's super important because I don't know if you hear this, but sometimes I hear local business owners say things like, well, they should support us because we're local. And I'm like, oh, I don't know that I actually agree. I think it is not— the onus is not on the customer to choose you. The onus is on you as a business owner to be preferable, right? Like, you know, everybody bitches about Amazon and it's like, well, it's because Amazon makes life really simple. And if every time I work with you, everything is harder, plus it's not delivered even with a local smile, like if you're crabby about it too, I mean, these things really matter and it's so hard, right? It's so hard to deliver those truths and do it in a way that's somehow loving. But I sometimes just think we forget how people actually operate.

Yes.

You know, do you feel any of that or like, does that—

Oh, good. This is one of my biggest pet peeves because it's so prevalent in, especially in the ag industry. You know, we're kind of entitled to, well, we're growing your food, so you should appreciate us. You should.

100%.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Thank a farmer.

Thank a farmer.

Right. Yeah. That's thought is the exact thing that's keeping them broke, keeping them from growing their business, keeping them from actually moving the needle in the agriculture industry. And so this is— you touched a nerve here because I'm like, this is something I'm really, really passionate about because we are entitled to nothing. As a business owner, it is your job to set up your business for success. It is your job to create that leadership skill. It's your job to speak your truth and get really real with yourself. It's your job to create crystal clear messaging. It's your job to make it easy for your customers to buy. I don't know a single business that is successful, but that has that entitled attitude. And sometimes they are successful, but it usually comes crashing down later because they not set those foundations and they're entitled. And that's something So when people say buy locally, I don't like that. I don't like you should buy local. Or when people say nobody wants to work, maybe nobody wants to work for you. That's what it comes down to because you—

Yeah, that hurts, right? That hurts.

But it's true.

It's true.

And it's hard because like, this is where I was at, you know, 3 years ago, but my business was not taking off and I'm like, something's got to change. This is not working.. And so I took a real good look at who I was and what, you know, I'm trying to create and what I need to do to get there and put away the excuses and put away the blaming and pointing the finger. I think in the ag industry we also do that a lot where we're just pointing the finger and it's, it's not getting us anywhere. And so that's why I always like to start with that leadership pillar because that's really where it starts. And if people can't make it past the leadership pillar, they're not going to make it through any of the pillars when working with me, and it's not going to work out. I totally agree.

Our businesses will absolutely only grow to the level that we're willing to grow ourselves, because the growth of ourselves is painful. It's hard. It's confronting. It's all of those things, right? Like, to suddenly look in the mirror and go, oh, I kind of suck at this thing— that doesn't feel good for anybody. But that's actually what moving forward looks like. And again, like, I think another thing that this happens to— we end up sounding like victims, like we're the victim instead of like we have the agency to put our best foot forward. And so I'm, I'm glad that that resonates with you. I mean, I kind of wish it wasn't a thing, but I'm also a big believer that if we can't address it and call it what it is, or if we can't just say it, right? Like, this is a thing, we'll never address it and move past it. So I just think these are all super important things for everybody that's trying to do anything of significance. Again, people that listen to this podcast, some of them are— when I say just people, I'm saying they're, they're just people and they're small towns, like trying to make their small towns the best that they can be. And so they might be trying to do something that's a little out of the box. Every single thing that we are talking about applies to that too, because those things often are enterprising, you know, in nature.

Yeah, absolutely. It's exactly it. This applies to not only small business owners, not only small town business owners, but just people in general. When you're trying to do something out of the box, you're going to get a lot of resistance. You're going to get a lot of pushback. It's just how humans work. It's just how human nature is. And but if you have worked on yourself and you've got the confidence and you've got the support team around you and you've got the tools and resources you need to deal with the pushback and deal with the words, you know, that people say to you that might hurt. You'll be much more successful. And this is why it's so important, like I said, to start with, like, what's your Enneagram? Who are you? Why are you doing this business? Because you're in for a treat, my friend. Growing a business is not an easy thing. And so I want you to be successful. And that means doing this type of work first. And like, like you said, it doesn't matter what type of thing you're trying to do. A lot of people— it's surprising— a lot of people in these small towns want the same thing. They want to see growth. They want kind of, you know, the peace and the community. But it's hard for people to— usually it takes one person starting and then most other people will follow because we're kind of like sheep, you know, we're like, oh, actually, I really do really want this. And so I'm going to— but it takes that person to be a leader, to be the first person to take the step. And that is often the hardest because we feel so alone. We're like, oh my gosh, I feel so alone. Nobody is wanting any of this, but so many people are watching you in the background, my friend. And so no matter what you're trying to do, like I said, whether it's growing a business or maybe you're trying to, you know, upgrade the town. I was in a local town here in Luce— excuse me, in Glasgow, Montana, and they're trying to get a skate park in place. And, you know, that takes a lot of work, takes a lot of effort, right? And so if you've got this vision in mind and you've got the confidence and the courage and the support, even if it's just one person supporting you virtually, then you're gonna make it and you're gonna be fine and you're gonna support it.

And I'm also, just for the record, I mean, I've said this so many times on this podcast, but I'm like a big proponent of therapy.

Oh yeah.

You know, I think like my therapist is absolutely part of my support team. Yes.

Huge.

Because it's really, it is really, really hard. You know, even using the phrase, the word confidence, like how do you develop that? It doesn't at all mean that self-doubt just disappears. It just means that when you're confronted with self-doubt, you actually have a path forward, how to deal with it, how to address it, and that you don't let it stop you. I think that's something that we just don't talk enough about. Like, I don't know if you agree with this, Ali, love your opinion. I don't think we ever evolve beyond self-doubts. Like, because every level, like, if you keep leveling up, if you will, it unlocks a whole new world of self-doubts that you weren't at all confronted with 10 levels ago. Right? It's just like, that's why it's always gonna be actually kind of hard. And I think embracing, embracing that is really important too, because it's just a good mental exercise to say, okay, like, it's not necessarily gonna get easier. We get better if we're committed to that growth.

Yeah. Oh, I completely agree with that because I've experienced it myself. I used to think Oh, if I could just quit my— because I was— I did a side gig and I was working full-time. If I could just quit my full-time job and then I would just be so much better in my business, you know, this weight will be lifted off my shoulders. I won't, you know, self-doubt myself anymore. And it's just not the case because like you said, you get to the next level. I've got a team in place now. Now I'm worried, oh my gosh, I got to make sure I got to pay them. I got to get the funds out. I got to land consistent clients to get them.

Work for me.

It's, it's so important to recognize your own triggers in your mind. Therapy is so critical. And I know every successful entrepreneur does some type of therapy, you know, and I'm talking about the brain therapy. Nobody talks about brain therapy. Everybody talks about physical therapy or whatever.

Right.

And right. Yeah. And like, so by you knowing your Enneagram type, let's say there's a whole bunch of different personality types, but I like the Enneagram. If you know when some good things become a bad thing because you've read the book, you are self-aware of those things. That's when you're able to take a step back and say, oh, you know, maybe I do need to go back to therapy, or maybe I need to hire a business coach to help me go get through this because I know myself, I know who I am, and I know when I start to self-sabotage. I know when I start to be too much. So like, as a Type Enneagram, sometimes I want the things so bad, I'm pushing so hard And I'm actually— that's the exact reason why I'm not getting anywhere is because I'm pushing so hard. But because I'm now self-aware of these things, my mental health is way better. I still have these fears and doubts, right? But I'm just— they're here and I'm just going to put them over here. They're not going away and I'm not able to just like get rid of the fear. But I know that it's a fear, but I'm still moving forward even in this. Of fear. And so, yeah, and I will say, like, humans are meant to survive, they're not meant to thrive. And so when you get inside of this, like, community, or you're starting to do big things for your community, it's super uncomfortable. And it is. And I started to recognize that uncomfortable is tied to this feeling. I used to think, like, I used to get these weird feelings, like, oh, I, I don't— this is really weird and icky. And, and it's just what the definition of uncomfortable is for me. And I now recognize that I just have to push through that uncomfortable because of what's going to be on the other side.

Right.

And so as a leader in your community or in your industry, you're going to experience so much uncomfortableness every single day. It's going to be uncomfortable for you because you're doing something that's not in the norm. You're doing something to grow your community. If you look at history, and I love history, like the Great Depression and how the West was formed, there was a lot of this going on. I kind of like to say that like the internet or the virtual world is kind of like the Wild West, and we're like forming our— we're homesteading the internet. It's— I know it's kind of weird, but it's true, because when people homesteaded in the West, they had to become leaders in order to create the community that they wanted. They had to get really honest with themselves. They had to meet, you know, once a week. And it took sometimes going to town, which was a long ways away, and they had to build each other up. And there's so many good stories about how the West was formed like that. And I think that's kind of where we're at again. Obviously, I'm not saying that we're like in the Great Depression times because it's not even close, but kind of the same concept, like history repeats itself. And so we're kind of in that era where we're like, We're feeling a lot of stagnation in the small towns and these rural communities. And so now we have to build these leaders up in order to get new things into the door and to, you know, have these thriving communities. And it takes becoming a leader. In fact, I think 1 in 7 people have to become a leader in rural America in order to replace the leaders that are going out. That's insane. That's a lot of people. And I don't see that in my community, but it starts with me. I got to become a leader myself before I can point to somebody else and say, you got to be a leader. And so it always starts with ourselves. That's why I love therapy too. I love so many self-care. I never used to be a self-care person, but now it's very crucial because as a leader, as a business owner, you're taking on a lot and there's so much growth that's happening that you've got to continue to nurture yourself in order to be able to serve anybody else.

Yeah. What you just identified, like, the history is that the constant in history is that it's humans. Yeah. Humans do not— we do not change that much over time. Like, all the problems in every civilization before us was created and then remedied through humans. And so, yeah, getting comfortable with discomfort is so important. It's so cliché, but it's not when we're really talking about where the rubber meets the road. Those moments where you step outside of your, you know, house or your office or your whatever and you're like, oh, that feels gross. Well, that is our feeling to lean into. And it's really hard. I mean, it really is hard work, but it's so amazing. And that's— I like— I love this. This is such a great way for us to kind of wrap because legitimately, like, Growing Small Towns is about humans. I believe so much that if we can find a way to get more of this kind of thought process, the human work, the mind work, the mindset work, the heart work, we get more of those tools into the hands of more people in our small towns. There is nothing bad can come from that. Only good can come from that. So I just, I believe in the investment in humans. I believe in stepping into it and being willing to stand there. And I think the more that we can all keep talking about it and we even become safe havens for each other online, I think it's super important. And it's possible. We're able to be more connected now than ever before. And that's such a gift. And so I know there's a lot of negative stuff that can come with the internet, but I just, for me, for like where I live and how I'm doing my life, it's absolutely critical.

Mm-hmm. So critical. I work from home. I work 4 days a week, like, but today I don't have childcare and it's all good because I don't have to go to the office. It's helped me so, so much and it's not going away. And so I know some people are like, I don't know, I don't need the internet for my business. You're not going to survive that. That's just what it comes down to. And why are you so resistant to changing, right? Why are you so resistant to doing this work? Let's dive into that first, because like you said, we're not only building a business, we're building ourselves. That's where it starts. And that's Exactly what I experienced when I was starting my business. I was like, not into this stuff. I'm like, I don't need to, you know, do any of this work for myself. I just want—

did you ever label it woo? Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I've always been like, bring the woo. I love it.

Yeah.

But yeah, I get, I get that so much.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I'm like, this is not for me. I just wanna grow my business. And so I avoided that type of work. For the longest time and I didn't get anywhere and I wasn't happier. And I, since I, so finally I was like, well, this isn't working. And so I'm going to try the Woo stuff. And now I'm obsessed with it because it's transformed my life. Not only has it transformed my business and I've been able to reach milestones that I never thought it was ever possible for me. I've reached milestones in my life. My marriage is better. My relationship with my family is better. My relationship with myself is better. It's just such crucial work. And if you can't start there, your business is going to be a struggle along with anything else you're trying to do in your community. It starts with you and take a chance on yourself because you are capable of a lot more than you give yourself credit for. And our communities need you, right? Your business needs you, but also your community needs you. And so it starts with you.

Oh, Ali, love it so much. It's a beautiful way to end this episode. We will make sure that we get all the links to all the goodness, including the Enneagram. If you've got a good link that people might be able to go and take a test, that kind of thing. Thank you so much for the work that you are doing. Thank you for being such a bright light of hope and optimism. And again, just like good humanness. You really do radiate that. And I'm so thankful to Cassidy for introducing us. Thank you so much for being on the show today.

Oh, thank you so much. It's been such an honor. And thank you for what you're doing as well. You know, it takes a tribe to move the needle. And like you said, if we can continue this work, there's nothing that can stop us. So thank you so much for having me on.

Amen to all of that. Thanks so much, Allie.