123. Grant Writing in Small Towns with Realizing Rural

Our guests on today's episode are Jasmine Foshheim and Cassidy Blade. They are sisters. They are a sister duo and they are delightful. They are the owners of a consulting business called Realizing Rural, and what they offer is, are things like grant writing. That's right, friends. I brought you two amazing, wholesome, delightful human beings that do grant writing for small communities. They also do some project management. They do some marketing and kind of graphic design support. They have a really neat little business. And so they joined me today to talk about that, to talk about how they started. I'm expecting that you're gonna be clamoring for their contact info. There is one point in the episode where Jasmine references this set of quadrants where it really is a, a tool that she remembered. She couldn't remember in the moment. She kind of alluded to it and she was spot on as far as what it was. We did actually link it in the show notes. We found the link, found the article, and we were talking about it in light of when you're trying to figure out, you know, what you should do in your business and what you should outsource in your business. Also, when you think about something like a consulting practice, which services do you really wanna offer? And sometimes one of the filters is, are we good at it? Well, there's being good at it and then there's loving it. And so that's kind of the setup of that. So I just wanted to call that out. We touch on it in the episode and then linked it in the show notes. So without further ado, enjoy this chat with the co-founders of Realizing Rural and get that pen and paper ready because you're going to want to contact them. I'm quite sure of it. Well, hey ladies, welcome to the Growing Small Towns show.

Thank you so much. We're happy to be here.

Okay, so for our listeners' delight, and it's going to be super fun, there are actually two of you that you're from. And so why don't we do a quick just kind of introduction to who you are? And we already joke, like, you sound so similar. People will be like, wait, wait a minute, there's two of them, but they are. I'm actually staring at them, two whole different people. It's a total thing. So why don't you tell us a bit about who you each are, and then we'll kind of get into how and the kind of the genesis of Realizing Rural.

Yeah, awesome. I'll get started. My name is Jasmine Fosham. I am the older of the two sisters that make up Realizing Rural, and I, Kassie and I both grew up in Pierre, South Dakota. Born and raised. After graduation, I went off and studied psychology and special education at Augustana in Sioux Falls, and then I went and taught in the Marshall Islands for a year, came back broke as a joke. Kassie said, come live on my couch, and I ended up in an economic development, uh, role in a small town, the small town of Hettinger, North Dakota, and did that for 6 years. And, um, since then, Kassie and I have both moved back to our hometown up here. And I am— well, we're working full-time as business owners doing our business, uh, Realizing Rural. And I have two beautiful kiddos that I love and adore, Josie and Finn, and a loving husband, Frank, who is back home with me. He was my high school sweetheart, so he, he also moved back home with us.

Oh, fun. That is awesome. Okay, well, welcome Jasmine. And now the second sister that's going to sound a whole lot like the first. At least in audio, you're going to be like, wait, what? So awesome. So great to like hear a little bit of that background. And then again, we'll get into like, by the way, also, can I just say, you're like, I was broke as a joke and then I was an economic developer and I kind of want to talk about that.

I know.

Is that like the origin story for most economic developers? I feel like most economic developers actually do like fall into it in a super weird way. So it's kind of—

I think that's the case, you know, but you want to budget money somewhere and you know, what better way to get used to budgeting tax dollars, I guess.

Yeah, totally.

Totally. Okay, so awesome to meet you, Jasmine. And Cassidy, you're up.

Yes. So I am Cassidy. I'm the younger of the two of us, the second half of Realizing Rural. And so I, of course, originally from here, just like Jasmine. But after graduation, I moved right to small town Hettinger, North Dakota, followed a boy, of course.

And I— as we do, as we do, don't we?

And the rest is history.

So I, in Hettinger, I actually got into the newspaper industry and sort of learn the ins and outs of designing and editing and working in that field, a field which I still very much so love and still do partially. And so, you know, that's my big surprise is I never thought I'd end up working in the news industry either. So, and then of course drug Jasmine to Hedinger with me, lived there for 5 years with her, and now we're back in Pierre. I also have 2 kiddos, Kyler and Kenley, and a husband.

So Yeah, well, you did offer up your couch. I mean, you didn't drag her exactly. You were like, hey, I have a couch.

And I want to be clear that she did have a bed. She was not actually stuck on my couch. I did have a bed.

It might have been a $50 bed off of like Heading Randy Buy and Sell, but, you know, it was a bed and I had a room and a roof and they fed me. She did the dishes in exchange.

So yeah, it was that. Feels like a really solid trade.

I love it.

I love it. Well, okay, Cassidy, great to get that background on you. So now tell our listeners about Realizing Rural. Like, what is it? How did it come to be? And again, I told you before we hit record, I have a feeling that a lot of my audience for this show is going to be just chomping at the bit to get your contact info. So it's going to be super fun at the end to see just how maybe far-reaching my podcast is. It'll be really nice to see what happens after this. But please, we'll have to keep track and get that information.

Yeah, right. Yeah.

I am not expecting royalties, but maybe, you know, high fives and hugs. Like, that's— you can pay me in that.

That's our love language.

We can do that. So tell us all about it. It's a pretty amazing organization that the two of you have started.

Yeah.

So During our time in Hedinger, I started as economic developer and kind of came in. There was this idea that I was like this young savior to the town, or I felt that pressure. And I think a lot of young people in positions like that in small communities probably can relate to that feeling, that pressure. And Cassidy happened to be on one of my boards because I was the joint director of the chamber and the economic development corporation. So I had kind of a dual role.

And which, quick timeout again for like a lot of our listeners. I want people to really hear like that is actually a common like split of like duties or hats and very challenging. So there's a lot of overlap between those positions, kind of the traditional work of a chamber director and an economic development director. But it really is like different sides of your brain in a lot of respects. You know, super challenging.

Overlapping goals, but the steps that you take to get to those goals are so incredibly different.

Right.

So it was really challenging. I was lucky to have very supportive boards, but one thing that I realized very quickly in that position was that there are so many resources, so many grants, so many dollars, so many things that you can be doing in a small community and things that a small community deserves that they can't access because of lack of funding, lack of capacity, lack of staff. You know, we were fortunate that we even had paid staff in our community, a lot of communities are run by volunteers. And so my heart goes out to those of you who are doing it just from the bottoms of your hearts because it is great hard work. And so Cassie and I spent a lot of our evenings at the dinner table and on the couch in front of, you know, whatever we were watching that night. Usually America's Next Top Model, if I'm being honest.

I already really liked you two. I definitely went through the America's Next Top Model phase.

Oh yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like the craziest thing that never ended. I think we've seen every season at least 5 times.

Yeah. I love it.

I love it.

That's actually a really good reminder to me to like go back and find it and pick up where I left off. Anyway.

Oh, so good.

Yeah.

So, but in the evenings we would spend our time talking about these challenges at work and I definitely like blurt it out, talk it out, vent it out type of person. And Kastie is always the other one in that conversation, kind of throwing things back at me. And we just realized there are so many things that these small communities deserve. And are worthy of, but that they can't access because of that lack of capacity or funding or what have you. So we created Realizing Rural with the mission of shifting the rural narrative from surviving to thriving. And so we are a business that's focused on being accessible and affordable and meeting communities where they're at, providing grant writing, consulting, project management, graphic design, bookkeeping services. All the things that we saw as missing in a lot of these small communities who don't have paid staff or don't have a staff of 5 to be helping them grow their communities. And so we support businesses, nonprofits, as well as municipalities.

Yeah, that's awesome. So Cassidy, anything you want to add to kind of that origin story?

You know, I think she has the truth of it in that we saw that there was a need. But, you know, I'm going to throw it out there too, that like we're sisters and we spent you know, all this time talking over suppers and over America's Next Top Model. We also just wanted to have something that we could do together. And so I know sisters fight a lot, but we don't really.

And we spoke there again. So there, right there, listeners, was the exact, like, same answer, same cadence. You guys pop on and I think you both went, hey, or something. And it was exactly the same.

And I got the giggles.

I'm like, and This is going to be— yep, there's two of them, I promise. Anyway, um, I— and again, I think that's part of the charm of it, frankly. And I get it, yeah, like going into business with family can be dicey in certain ways, but honestly, Jasmine, you already kind of touched on the fact that like you actually have personality traits that balance each other out, which is really special.

Yeah, you know, it's interesting because we're very much the same person and also we're very different in all the key ways that make this partnership just work so incredibly well. And You talk to anybody who's ever known us at any point in our lifetime, they'll tell you that we've got like the weirdest sister relationship you've ever seen. And we just like, we're inseparable, truly. We spend all day together and then our husbands come together and our kids come together and we have supper together. And then we, we do go home and sleep in our own beds now. We don't have slumber parties every night anymore.

But again, occasionally. Maybe. Right, right. You know, have an extra cocktail and you're like, hey, just crash here. You're like, got it.

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

No, I think that's— it doesn't usually take a lot of convincing.

Yeah.

I do want to add something, though, to the origin story because I think that this is really special and speaks a lot to Kassdi and to our relationship. So when I was in college, I did a lot of traveling, and writing has always kind of been an outlet for me. And so I started a blog way back when. And that blog has kind of evolved with me as I've gone through all of these phases in my life. And when I got to Hettinger, I actually called my blog Realizing Rural. I changed the name. And so I started writing about rural challenges that I was seeing in our community, as well as rural strengths. And so I remember one year for my birthday, Cassidy framed a picture of this logo that I had meticulously designed and fell in love with, and I came up with the tagline, shifting the rural narrative from surviving to thriving, and had all of this together. And it was just for my personal blog and the, you know, 50 or 100 people who followed it. And Kassity framed it and gave it to me along with the paperwork that I needed in order to start a business and trademark the logo and says, I believe in you more than you believe in yourself. And this is something more. I don't know what it's going to look like, but I'm here for it when it is. Or when it becomes what it will become. And I didn't know at that time that this, what we're doing right now, which is like living our dream, is what that was. But Cassie was there from day one saying, I'm betting on you and I believe in what you're doing. And so I think that that's really cool.

It's absolutely cool. And I think so again, for our listeners that are listening to this, A, it's totally okay if you have envy coursing through your veins. I'll just say, like, as a woman that doesn't have a sister, I have adopted sisters. Like, I've gathered sisters, right? I've got plenty of, like, female love in my life, no doubt. But, like, that's something that I think is so dang special. There's not a better word to describe that, I don't think. Yeah. But so for those of us that don't have it, it still is really imperative that we do have that person. As in, it doesn't have to be a sister, just they don't have to be related, but you have to have somebody that actually just truly champions you and your ideas. Like, it's— you can't do it by yourself. You can't.

No. Yeah, absolutely.

So I— it's awesome that it was built in, you know, that you had her built in. That's really special. We feel really saying that. I have to find a better word, but that's gonna be the word of the day, I guess. Really special. Yeah. I love it. Okay. So let's talk about, like, get into a bit more of the lines of work or the services that you actually do because The big one that I think, again, from my perspective, doing both local economic development, my chamber director and I were just like bestie partners. We work on everything together, right? And then I work with a lot of communities. Everybody needs grant writing help. So can we maybe start there and talk a little bit about like what's your process looks like? Obviously it doesn't, we don't have to get into the weeds on what you charge necessarily, but maybe just how that structured and kind of if there's like sweet spots that you feel that Realizing World really can fit for people. I think that would be super helpful.

Yeah, so, you know, we really, really pride ourselves on our very first line of communication is our grant outlook for someone who needs a grant or needs funding. And so what we'll do is we'll meet with the person or organization, we'll talk through their needs, their— we call it their wish list. And then we go, we cast our net far and wide with all of our resources, all of our listings, everything, and we find every grant that would be, you know, in some way, shape, or form fitting for this organization or their project, and we give that to them. These opportunities are out there, people just don't know how to find them. And so we really pride ourselves— funding identification is always, always free.

It's super cool, guys.

Yeah, yeah, it's out there if you know where to find it. And it, you know, it works out for us because 9 times out of 10, the person we meet with, we do this work, we get them their outlook, well, then they— we have this relationship now, and they're gonna want to move forward with writing the grant and, right, you know, and maybe even project management. And so, so almost always that's our first step.

Two quick things with that. Yeah, again, I think this can be an interesting conversation just related to whether or not grants make sense for you. Okay? So I want your opinion on this, because I get asked half a dozen times a week, like, hey, Rebecca, are there grants available for this? Right? I get asked the question, like, all the time. And so from your experience, because sometimes what I think happens, and again, I just want your opinion on it, to help everybody navigate kind of this big wide world of either grants or just nonprofit funding, right? I think the thing I see happen is that, like, the state of North Dakota where I'm at, right, you guys are in South Dakota, but same thing happens. Let's say the state of North Dakota opens up a grant cycle for something and you catch wind of it and you're in a nonprofit, and suddenly you go, what can we do to create something to go after that money?

You know what I mean?

And so sometimes I think what's happening is that the grant funding that's out there instead of us starting or leading with either organizational need being just general operations, mission, values, like everything you're about, or a specific project, instead of leading with those things, we lead with the money.

Right.

So do you see that?

What do you think?

Like, are there some best practices for us that are trying to get things paid for?

Yeah, for sure.

First, how to do that and what should come first.

Yeah, so in an ideal world, I would say that it is vital for you to have your organizational development kind of squared away. You know, you should know your mission, vision, values. You should have a plan in place, strategic plan that's looking out 3 to 5 years. You should have a broad plan of what the next 5 to 10 years looks like. It should be on paper and you should be going back to it frequently to make sure that you're on track. What I can tell you is that almost every rural community we've ever worked with does not have those things in place. And what we often see and what we dealt with in Hettinger is that there's not a lot of money to get those things done, right? Like a lot of communities don't even know where to start. And then they, you're like, well, I made a strategic plan. How do I even do that? And you go talk to a consultant and you say, can you help us make a strategic plan? And they're like, yeah, sure, that'll be $35,000. And the jaws hit the floor, right?

Right. Yeah.

And so I will say North Dakota Department of Commerce has done a great job of putting out some money for planning, which has been very beneficial for communities like Hetier. If you haven't yet, I would keep an eye out for additional opportunities of that sort because that funding for planning is what is ultimately going to set you up for success moving forward. But we do oftentimes work with clients who are just like, this money is here. I know we want to get these 10 things done, but how can we get this money into our community? We really don't have a clear vision of where it goes or how it fits, but we don't want to pass up the opportunity. And so in an ideal world, the planning comes first and you know what you're going for. In the reality of the situation, most of the time it's the opposite. And so I think that that's okay, but I think it just is important to know who you are and what you're doing and ensuring that your project aligns with what your goal is as an organization. And sometimes we work with organizations who maybe don't even really know what that is. And so, you know, you gotta do a little bit of soul searching in order to put together a grant application because you have to know who you are. You not only have to know who you are, you have to be able to communicate who you are to people who don't know who you are. And that is a difficult task.

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, it's not easy to do, especially if you haven't articulated it and put it on paper before. And so I think if you're a community or an organization who's at that point where you're like, I think maybe that's me. If you're hearing the things I'm saying, you're like, yeah, that over here, please come. Feel free to reach out. There are a lot of resources who can help you do those things, make those plans. I'm not saying that you need to have a $35,000 strategic plan in order to—

I'm a consultant and your plan doesn't need to cost $35,000.

No, it doesn't.

Because at the end of the day, like, a lot of times those plans get developed and they're basically based on a moment in time and then they get put on a shelf and nobody actually ever looks at them again.

Right.

You need something that's a bit more living and breathing. Right. And that just requires kind of a different approach and it shouldn't cost that much money or doesn't have to, I should say.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think that that's definitely a challenge that rural communities face is that lack of planning and then lack of understanding where to go without that planning. On the flip side, you're totally right that some plans just end up being bookends on a shelf and that is, you know, it's a waste of money and time really. And so you have to figure out what works for your community. Right.

I think the thing that I get sad when I see is when, when it really does walk and talk and look like a true money grab, you know, like there's this grant out there, like it's either we take our idea and we shave a bunch of parts off or we add a bunch of stuff so that we can check all of their boxes. All I want to say about it is like, I just want to encourage people to take a step back and be a little bit more intentional about it because There's a lot of grants that I didn't pursue at the beginning of my organization because of those very things. Because grant funding is not free money. No. People think it's free. I get that, like, you maybe don't have to pay it back, but it comes— generally, it comes with a set of stipulations. There are generally strings attached to that funding, right? And so you really wanna be sure that there's a good alignment with you, whether it's organizationally or if it's project-based. Like, if, if you know you have a project you wanna pull off, right? I wanted just to touch on that because I understand the desire to do that. Like, oh, this money is available. So many people tap me on the shoulder at the beginning of all of this and say, like, you should get USDA funding, you should get this funding, right? And I would look at it and I would just say, like, yeah, maybe in your mind I should, but I'm not willing to concede in all of these ways, right? And so then there has to be an honest conversation.

Right? Yeah.

About where you're at, what you're really trying to do, and what you're willing to give up.

Yeah.

And I think you touch on a good point too with the strings attached. Like a lot of people have this understanding that grant money is free money. You get it, you do your project, and that's the end of it. But really grants, especially if you're going for state dollars, federal dollars, you're not only are there strings attached, but there is You know, there can be intensive reporting that is required quarterly and for years afterward. And that reporting requires that you have the capacity within your organization to complete that reporting.

Right.

And if you don't have the capacity, you have to have the funding to be able to pay somebody to do that project management for you. And I think that sometimes people forget about the, they're like, yes, free money.

We get the money.

Now what? Holy crap, there are so many steps that we have to take, and I don't actually have the time or capacity to be making all of this happen like I promised I would in my scope of work, right?

Yep, exactly. Okay, so the funding identification is free. Again, we don't have to get into like the actual details, but people should expect to pay upfront for your grant writing services. Is that accurate? Like, if you know you do the funding identification, that's free, people get it and they go, gosh, This one looks like a really good fit. Would you help me write it? Right?

Yes.

So then they are paying upfront because this again is one of those things that I, and I appreciate this, let me just say as a fellow business owner, because you need to be compensated for that time. Like, there's no easy way around that. Sometimes you can build, you can build it almost as a reimbursement out of the grant, like, but upfront you should get paid for it. It's so often I see where grant writers are like, yeah, well, I'll take 1% of the award if you're awarded it. And I'm like, that doesn't feel right, you know? So yeah, talk to me a little bit about— right, yeah, wouldn't that be great?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. In a perfect world, we'd love to only require the grants or the grantees that get the money to pay us. Yeah, in a perfect world. It doesn't work like that, unfortunately. But we do really believe in transparency, especially with nonprofits, municipalities, We know that you have a budget to work in. We know you can't have any surprise costs. And so what we do is we charge by the hour and we charge— when we do quotes, we do a capped time. And so we'll say, you know, this will take us a maximum of 20 hours. We'll almost always fall under that. If we happen to go over those hours, there's no way in heck we'll charge any more than that. We know that that's— that money has to be accounted for. And so we always estimate high and come in low.

Yeah, that's, that's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, what else do the listeners need to know about kind of your grant writing services? Oh, the other question I had was, do you feel like there's kind of a sweet spot, like an area where you feel like you really are nailing it? Like you've had a lot of experience, you have a really high award or approval rating. Where you're actually, you know, getting approved for a lot of them?

Yeah, for sure. We have a very high success rate with our grant writing so far, and in that I include kind of the 5 years that I was working in Hettinger and Adams County. But where we see the most success, honestly, is through USDA, through their various programs. And so I'm chuckling— laughing because you're like, those are the grants you don't want to think about.

100%. I am laughing because I'm like, Praise the Lord. Somebody has success with applying to the USDA.

That's so great.

I love the people that work at the state level for the USDA. I've had them to Oaks. We've had them like, it's mind-blowing, the products, you know, the programs and the all— because there's 71 programs. The state of North Dakota has an allocated bucket of funding for 71 programs under the USDA.

Yeah.

So as I say that to people, it's insane. I'm simply saying like, If you think that you can do this on your own, I mean, more power to you if you think you can, but don't beat yourself up and don't feel stupid and don't feel like an idiot and don't feel like anything. It's literally the state director, Erin. She was like, I don't know the ins and outs of all 71 programs. Like, that's why there's program specialists, right? So I think it's phenomenal that you feel really equipped with that because it is challenging application sets.

Yeah, for sure. I think especially, you know, they're intimidating in that the application packets are usually about 60 pages long in and of themselves, right? And then you have to read like the Notice of Funding Opportunity, and it's like tiny 9-point print, and you know, it's in all these columns, and there's so many things. We just have found that those are the grants that are very overwhelming, but that over time we have been able to digest and feel very comfortable with and have a high success rate with. And so we find that those are oftentimes the grants that are most sought after because, one, there's a lot of funding available for it, and two, they work with us because they just are very intimidating. They're terrifying. I mean, I remember writing my first one and the application was like 200 pages, and I cried tears of joy when I turned that thing in way back, you know, 7 years ago.

Right.

So I have two experiences. Again, just for the listeners, I applied for the Distance Learning and Technology Grant under USDA when I first started Growing Small Towns. I worked with a college professor. I mean, I worked with people like I wrote the grant, but I had really good help, really good support. And, you know, it's just you get the notice that you're turned down back and there's, there's just nothing, right? It took me just over 40 hours to write that application. I'm a writer. Yeah, I wrote a book, like, I'm a writer, and I only say that like, I could barely navigate it. Like, it was so, so hard. And I remember just being like, okay, well, for the time being, I'm not going after grants of that nature, right? Because I was like, I could have spent those 40 hours building private sector partnerships, and I guarantee you I would have gotten a dollar of return, right? Yeah, where this was that experience of just like, oh my gosh. And so It's not that it soured me on USDA. I just thought, holy, right? That's crazy. So just within the last couple of months, I supported our local butcher to apply for the local meat capacity grant. That was— that felt a little easier only in the sense that it's so specific, right? It was like built for him, right? And we don't know yet if he's been awarded that or not. I'm simply saying, like, to anybody listening to this, If you excel at the USDA, again, praise the Lord. All the emoji, like all the emoji praise hands. Like, I can't. It's awesome. And what a huge resource.

Yeah.

And it's hard to even say that. I think one thing that it has played a huge role, honestly, for both of us in our professional careers has been honestly imposter syndrome. And so for us to finally have hit the point where we can say like, it's not just a string of good luck. It is a skill set that we have that we can be proud of and share with others.

It was hard to get to that point.

And as young women especially, who spent a lot of times in rooms that were quite honestly filled with older men, it was very hard to gain that confidence. And so I think it's just like a little pat on the back for us for even being able to tell you that we're good at that.

100%.

But we don't think it's just like Accidental good luck, right?

Well, okay, we can stop there for a second, just touch on that, because I think that is something— I have a good friend, we were talking about the fact that like you literally could say you're a consultant in anything with nothing else but saying it, and then you can say that, you eventually do have to prove that you're capable. But I think imposter syndrome is such a common thing, like for most people, right? We start businesses or even we get a job working for somebody else and you're like, how on earth did they hire me to do this? Like, I can't be qualified for this. That's super common, a super common feeling. But I think it is awesome. And you should be so proud that you literally just said we have a really good success rate with the USDA. To be able to say that is awesome. And I'm telling you, I know, like, people listening to this are going to be like, and scanning the show notes looking for the contact info because it's such a big deal. And that is, the USDA does have so much funding and I do think more of it should be accessed.

I really do.

So that's okay. So that's awesome. Anything else on grant writing that you would want to share? Just kind of to help us understand anything else about your process. What about the reporting? Do you do consulting on the reporting side of it?

We do. Yeah. It's often with clients that we write the grant for. It helps that we kind of understand, um, the project through and through. And so by piecing together that application, that helps us with the reporting, but that's not It's not always the case. We have done reporting for grants that we didn't write for.

And that's challenging.

It is challenging for sure. But I think that the reporting just requires that you're so organized and you've got to always keep your, like, you're a business owner or you're a municipality or you're a nonprofit and you've got a million things going on and you always have to be thinking about that grant has to be completed in a year or in 3 years. And you think that that year that you've got plenty of time and that's never the case. Yeah, you know, the deadline is always sneaking up on you. And so like, you've always got to keep one corner of your brain thinking about that grant. And by having somebody who can do that project reporting or project management for you, it's helpful because they can be that external reminder of like, hey, just a heads up, you've got quarterly reporting coming up next month. You have all of this information that you need for us, and have you completed these steps? Because that's what your scope says you have done in this timeline. So If you haven't yet, like, let's get moving. Yeah, right.

I would need that so badly. Like, it's again, like you said, this is kind of really— you're filling this super critical component because I'm sorry, but if you're a nonprofit, unless you are 100% grant funded, which I wouldn't recommend for a single organization on the planet, I mean, I just wouldn't, right? Grants should be very supplemental. In nature, and they should expand and enhance like a solid funding plan. Again, this is, this is my opinion, right? People can take it or leave it. But to be the kind of visionary leader that like, like I feel like I have to be, I live in the 30,000-foot view a lot of the time. It's actually where I prefer to be too. So then to have something that requires me to get that deep down in the weeds about stuff, it's not that I can't do it, it's just not natural. So I do need to really know where I shine. And if you can outsource that so that you're still meeting all the requirements and you're, I mean, it's just so awesome.

And I think that comes back to why we started Realizing Rural, because there are leaders in rural communities and oftentimes like grant writing isn't where they shine, or, you know, doing the reporting isn't where they shine, but they're really good at this thing. But their board says, We need more funding. Holy crap. And so they are forced to take on these tasks that they aren't strong at. And it's not— we've already talked about the fact that it can be a poor investment of time if the grant doesn't pay out. And so I think that that's the good note to touch on. And I would love to echo the fact that grant funding cannot be your savior and it should not be a core chunk of your operating budget. Like you've got to have a strong budget before the grant, before the grant comes in.

Well, because you're actually a questionable organization for a grantor, right? You know what I mean? Like, I'm not— again, it's one of those things that, yeah, when that's— we could— I mean, we could probably talk on that all day, but this is such a core important service that you guys offer. It's fantastic. Okay, so let's shift a little bit into kind of— we're going to take it in two pieces. So consulting, general consulting is— but is that like project management, and then kind of the marketing pieces, which is graphic design and some of that. So maybe just you guys just go tell us what other things people could expect to use you for. 'Cause I'm gonna tell you, um, in my head when I think about growing small towns, I have a board retreat coming up in, in the next month. I would love to actually position Realizing Rural almost as part of my advisory group, not like in a formal council. I don't have a formal council, right? But people that I seek out advice from based on these niches that I like, these things I know I'm not good at. Like, I'm the executive director. I have one paid staff besides me. We're just two humans, right? And you're doing all of these things.

Yeah.

If other people are listening to this, I just know they're gonna be like, okay, let's look them up. What else might people expect from a service standpoint?

Our consulting has just, it has been so not at all what we expected in the best way.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

As an example, we have a standing contract with StrengthND, and we do storytelling and evaluation for the Creative Community Solutions grantmaking program and the Bush Prize. Yep.

That they administer. Yep.

And so, you know, that's something that honestly we spend a huge chunk of time on, and it's one of our big passion projects, and it's not something at all that we would have thought that we would be working on. But so we do, you know, with that, it's a lot of evaluation. We do some promotional videos, some promotional graphic design, that kind of thing. Locally here in South Dakota, surprisingly, we've done a ton, a ton of personal fundraiser management. Like, yeah, in the form of like we've had a few major, major tragedies.

Like relief support management.

Yeah, that's maybe a better—

I'm sorry, Jasmine, what did you call it?

Like relief support management is what I would call it, where there's been like this big tragedy in the community and the family is dealing with their tragedy that they've experienced, and they've like— somebody has to be there to organize all of the donations coming in, start the bank accounts, make sure that all of the donors are getting, you know, if they need the paperwork to say that they donated, like different companies.

And so that's been another thing that just kind of popped up. We've done it a couple times now, and it just, it comes out of nowhere and surprises us, but it's felt really good to be able to help in that way.

Yeah.

And so I guess what I'm getting at with telling you those two examples is that when we say that we want to help in whatever way, we want to come to you in whatever way you need us to, right? If we have the capacity to do it, we'll do it.

Right, right.

So yes, and I think that's brilliant, girls. I do. Like, and what's funny about it is that, again, kind of said it earlier, you actually get to say like, we do consulting. Right. And then it really becomes a conversation with the person that needs the help. Right.

I mean, that's—

I'm sorry, but that's what my consulting looks like. I can't say because I'm not like certified in a process because I don't necessarily believe in that. Like, don't— like, people will be like, what's wrong with certifications?

Absolutely nothing.

But I am simply saying, like, I have a style of how I work with people, and sometimes I'm not the right fit, and I will never take on a client that I know I'm not the right fit for.

Right.

And I'm sure you feel the same way. Like if somebody comes to you and says, this is kind of the scope of what we want, if it really feels out of your wheelhouse, you're going to say we're not the right fit for you.

Right.

You know, and so I think that's kind of awesome. And that's kind of a catch-all phrase too, right? Like we do consulting. It's this kind of catch-all umbrella where basically you're availing yourself to people for these conversations more than anything, right? Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense.

I think too, like we have a standing contract with Maxwell Strategies who are a true consulting, like They've got it in their name. Like, that's what they do. Working with dozens of clients, different organizations, and working with them, it's been nice because we are that kind of chameleon who can just come in and say, you know, they've said we need additional capacity because we have all of these people and organizations we're supporting. Where are your strengths? And we had that conversation and suddenly we found 3 or 4 different organizations that we are working through MaxStrat with in order to do what they need from us and, and to be able to say, these are our strengths, this is how we can help you, and then kind of help and connect us with organizations who need us.

And not just here's our strengths, but here's what lights a fire in our belly, right? So like, your organization, it gets me going, it makes me want to work with you, and Yeah, so it's been a really cool opportunity. Yeah. Yeah.

So what are the buckets of work that you technically support to them? Because I'm familiar with them, which is really cool. Like, I love—

oh really?

Yeah, I didn't know that you guys worked with them. That's fantastic.

Yeah, it's a relatively new relationship, but we've been working with them doing a lot of like data mining, doing surveys and different things. Yeah, working with several organizations on how to develop their revenue models, of course, doing grant outlooks and grant writing for them. And so we've been able to help support several organizations and peer through them. And it has been such a fun way to reconnect with the community that we grew up and have loved all our life. But like, you move away for 10 years and suddenly things are a little different when you come back. And so having that almost like local connection to be able to reconnect us with all of these organizations that we've known and loved for many years, but disconnected from. In the time that we were gone. So, right.

Yeah, that's super cool. I love it. Okay. The last thing is kind of graphic design and marketing. Do those conversations feel kind of similar where it's like, here's the scope of work, this is what we think we need, and then you just have a good conversation and kind of determine what that looks like?

Yeah, pretty much. We have some small businesses and nonprofits who will use us for, you know, things like making posters for their events and creating the ads that go in the newspapers and managing their Facebook events. Right, exactly. And then we have things as far as like with Strength in ND, for example, we're creating a whole magazine for them celebrating creative community solutions. And so, you know, it's really small scale all the way up to full magazines. Thankfully, that's where a lot of my background comes in with the pagination from the newspaper world and design. Right. And Jasmine did just a ton of design, of course, as the chamber director. And yeah, yeah. So really, that's That's kind of like our fun relief. Like, we don't have to think too hard to do this. We don't have to be reading a USDA form to do this.

Yeah, our imposter syndrome is still like sitting with us in this little realm of our work though, because we've done it for ourselves and for other jobs before. So like, we wouldn't call ourselves graphic designers, but we are individuals who have some experience who can really help small communities who don't have the budget for a graphic designer. Yeah, to do that work. Yeah, that's like, don't get it twisted. You don't want us doing an entire community and graphic design plan. We're like, we can work with you, but right, like a full rebrand.

We need a logo, we can help you.

Like a full, a full rebrand. You don't want me to call you for that.

Like, right, right.

Yeah, I can appreciate that. That's awesome. And Cassidy, you touched on another something else that I wanna come back to because I think again, every time I bring on guests, right, if we're talking, sometimes it's like, straight up value for small towns. Sometimes it's small business, you know, ownership and that whole journey. And for you it's both, which is really fun. But you talked about the fact that it's not only stuff that's our strengths, but it's things that actually light us on fire. I want to make sure people really hear that because when you're actually a person that's just kind of naturally good at things, which some of us are, and I'm not. So an example for me is that like I actually am was really good at accounting, like in college. I just— and my accounting professor was like, you need to switch majors and go into accounting. And I was like, I would rather poke my eyes out. Like, I'm sorry, I just, you know, so it's, it's recognizing that just because it's a strength, and also from an organizational standpoint, like if you're running an organization and you go, well, yeah, but I'm good at this, that doesn't necessarily mean that you should be doing it, right? You know, there's more than just like, it's within my skill set or not as a check mark to like outsource it. And if it's actually depleting, like truly depleting, and you have the capacity to outsource it, that's another thing to think about. I just wanted to come back to that because it was really smart.

Yeah, absolutely.

You know, that you're not saying like, oh well, we only do things that we're, you know, that we're good at, because that can get taxing as well, I think.

Do you know the box that I'm talking about that has 4 quadrants. And so the 2 axes— yeah, the 2 axes that you're looking at are like, are you good or bad at it? And do you enjoy it or not enjoy it? Do you know what I'm talking about?

I have not seen this. I haven't seen this, which is really strange given my work.

You would think that I would have, but my mind immediately went to that when we talk about things that light us on fire and that we're good at. Like, I think when we say what lights our belly on fire, It is that corner of like things that we're good at and things that we also are passionate about and enjoy doing. And what you're talking about with accounting, like you fall into that other corner of the quadrant that says, you know, things you're good at, but you don't necessarily enjoy it. And so we have found ourselves in situations, especially like at the beginning of our journey with Realizing World, where we were maybe doing things that we're good at, but they weren't lighting a fire for us. And so We've learned to be able to be a little more thoughtful in the jobs that we take and ensure that like we are just as excited about the project as the client we're working with.

Right. And the only way you learn that is to go through it.

Right.

Yeah. Frankly, is to get aligned with a few projects where you're like, okay, so I'm still proud of the work, right? I'm still proud of what we did, but it wasn't— there was something off about it. Sometimes it's hard to pinpoint. Sometimes it's a client relationship. I mean, that's a whole thing too, right? A whole dynamic we haven't really talked about. But sometimes it's just simply a matter of going like, yeah, the reason is because it was really heavy in this one thing. And of all the things I'm good at, that doesn't necessarily do it for me. And again, like, it is your business and you get to kind of craft it. And every single time you say yes and you do something, you learn more about yourselves and you learn more about where you can really serve. And that's just part of the cool process of being a startup.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's been a fun process, a learning process for sure.

But well, the two of you are again, I just will first just say congratulations on coming together in such an authentic way, which is really, really cool. You know, you're sisters and you obviously love working together and your passion for your work clearly shows through. And even more than that, it's such an important aspect that is truly missing from so many small towns. And I really do care about these small towns that I either get to speak in or serve or help, or just that I hear from people that are in a small town, you know, a few states away, and they listen to the podcast. It's like, I really care about these people. And so you are doing really important work. And like I said, I've already told everybody on the podcast, like, listening now, you're going to be part of, like, my ad hoc advisory council because I need, I need people like you. I do, right? I need, I I need people that can get into the weeds, that can do project management, because it will kill me. You know, it will completely zap my energy if I have to be forced into that too much.

Yeah.

So thank you both for coming on the show. Thank you both for doing the work that you're doing. And yeah, I can't wait to work with you because for sure it's happening. I mean, I don't know if I've made that clear, but it's happening.

So we look forward to the day. We so appreciate you taking the time to have us on your show and I'm so glad we were able to connect earlier in the year.

Yes.

I think that's what's so great about like community and economic development is South Dakota and North Dakota, it feels like are kind of just one big community. And so it's so good to have all these connections all over the place. And we feel really strongly about rural. And what's great about rural is it kind of goes beyond state lines. And so we've got North Dakota and South Dakota and, you know, maybe even some Minnesota in our heart. And so we're excited to be able to working across the state lines.

Yeah, right. Well, keep doing what you're doing, and for sure we're gonna have you back. Maybe after we win a giant award and we can—

yeah, there you go.

But thank you again. Thanks for coming on the show, and I'm sure we'll be in touch.

Awesome.

Okay, thanks so much.

Good. Thank you.