132. Recruiting Young People to Small Towns

Our guest on today's episode is TJ Roney. TJ is occupying a brand new position here in my hometown called a relocation specialist. And we, the we in this situation, by the way, is, uh, us at Growing Small Towns, our economic development group, along with a couple of key private sector employers, decided to come together and fund a part-time position for a year. It's a pilot. This is a pilot position, knowing that we're not sure if we're right about what we think is happening and what things would really make the transition for complete newcomers. So we're talking about how difficult actually transitioning to a small town is if you don't have any connections there previously. We think that's a lot harder than the average person in our community might realize. Like we've had a lot of these conversations and again, here the we is myself as the person that does economic development, our chamber, like the people that work at the city, there's just a lot for somebody new to figure out. And what we have found is that a lot of times small towns, we kind of function like a little underground network and it can be really hard to navigate without somebody local. So we piloted this position for 2024 and TJ is the young woman who took it on. So this conversation is about that work, about the value of that work, but it's also about why she thinks small towns are such a great choice for people her age. And she is a beautiful 23. So she's one of these humans like that— small town economic development, community development people, small towns in general. We all go, how do we get the 20-somethings to move back? That's a little bit of what we dig into in this episode. So enjoy this episode with TJ Roney. Well, hey TJ! Hello, welcome to the show.

Thank I'm excited to be here.

I am excited to have your pretty face in this building. It's so much fun. It's been so fun already. Yeah.

It hasn't even been a month, but—

Yeah. So let's talk about this position. So for— are you willing to say how old you are?

Yeah, I am, because I am younger than most people think I am, so I gladly tell my age.

Yeah. Awesome.

So I'm 23.

Yeah. So she's just a baby. A wee babe. And I love it. It's so great. We created this new position for our town, right? 1,800 people right now. It's a pilot. It's 100%. Yes, absolutely. 100% pilot. But it's kind of a function of economic development.

Mm-hmm.

So let's go back to like when you and I first kind of started potentially looking at this, and then we can get into how we funded it and stuff. 'Cause again, it's not a sustainable plan right now. Like we don't necessarily have a, like, this is what it's gonna look like forever.

Yeah.

But I think the fact that you're here, you're working in our building, you're working alongside me, and we're actually knocking out some of the things that I have felt were missing, right, from community work because it's just— I don't want to say that it's tedious as in it doesn't matter, but it's time-consuming and very personal, right? Yeah. So let's go back to when you and I first kind of started talking. What was it about this idea of a relocation specialist that made you go, yeah? I think that'd be kind of cool.

And I was at the time in a position where I'm like, I don't know what I want to do, you know? And you brought this idea to me and I was like, wait, that sounds like freaking awesome. I'm like, I really think that's something that I would be good at because it's recruiting people to my hometown, right? This place I love. I'm like, okay, so that's no problem. Like I can sit and talk about how great this town is forever, right?

Yep.

So just like the ability to be able to do that and like spread the word basically about how great Oakes is, I'm like, yeah, that's like, sign me up.

Yeah. So the thing that was so shocking to me was because you were going to be coming, you were going to be moving back at the end of the year, right? So we're recording this just end of January. You've been working here since the 15th of January, right? Like we just got everything figured out. But I think what's Amazing is that again, I love it so much when like a crazy idea that I feel like I might have like works out and somebody wants the position. Because I think one of the challenges for a position like this might be finding the right person to do it.

Absolutely.

And I literally went to the Economic Development Board and said like, not only do I think this position needs to exist, but like we have the human.

Yeah.

And it's her. Yeah. Because you've got, you know, you've got experience with marketing, right? You do photography. So just so many things that like really lend itself to understanding why the— why and how to market the community. But I think it's worth noting, like most small towns, when we think about recruiting young kids back, we think about recruiting them into a job, like a full-time job with benefits and that structure and all of those things. So why were you so comfortable taking on something that, hey, the pay is not that great? I mean, we talked about this, very part-time hours, right? Right now you're kind of mirroring Kasha's hours at the chamber. And you also get that it's a pilot and that we don't know for sure what's going to happen.

Yeah.

In a year. So help our listeners understand why you would be okay with that.

I've never been somebody who is okay. Like, you know, my mom is an entrepreneur. My dad runs his own businesses too. Everyone in my family has that, like, that just spirit about them. And I've just— I've grown up around it. I've never been somebody who was around other people close to me that had that like structured, you know, 9-to-5 job. And so it wasn't ever like a thing in my brain that like that's the norm and that's what you have to do. In my brain and what I was taught growing up is like you do what you love, you do what makes you happy, and you make it work. And so I'm like, it's— to me, it's much more appealing that this is a— gives me more creative freedom. We get to build this program to what we want it to be. And I'm not like stuck into this, like, you have to do this and be this. And, you know, just the freedom of it is just so appealing. And like, who wouldn't love that?

Yeah, I think it's so awesome. And I think I just want to encourage the people in communities like ours So just don't sell yourselves or anybody short of what something like this can look like as a pilot, like, because you're not going to know. So let's get into like, you're not going to know if you're right about it, right? That's the hardest thing, like, you know, getting like economic development to get that. It's hard.

Yes. And I also like, I just, you know, it's fun for me to like prove people wrong and like to show people that like, yeah, this was needed and when this is a great program and So the ability to be able to do that too is fun for me.

It holds appeal for you. Yeah, I love it. It's so cool. So let's talk about what— again, you've only been doing this for 2 weeks. 2 weeks. We haven't been going very long, and that's okay. But when we sat down and we talked about this is what we also— I mean, okay, so I'll back up a little bit. The idea for this for me was born out of the pain of working with— and really it was one family. That was looking at moving here, relocating here. They had no connections to this community. They were moving for a job. The spouse had a remote job. They had 3 kids. So I've told you this whole thing. I'm kind of— I don't know if I've ever talked about this on the podcast, but it just came down to how truly difficult it was to help them get access to the things they needed to decide if they could move to Oaks. Like, something as simple as Do you have a list of reputable babysitters? Like, that was a thing where I went, oh my gosh, like, no, no. I mean, I know who I call, like, I have my little list, but, and then there's, you know, then you can kind of find it in pockets, right? But you need to know who to ask and how to find it. And so if you were new here, you'd have no way of figuring those things out. And then it was housing. I was finding really quickly that not only do a good majority of our houses get sold for sale by owner, which I think, like, again, we can talk about this a little bit, but I was like, we need to publish a set of for sale by owner best practices. Like, if you're going to sell your house on your own, good on you, but please, at a minimum, do these following things, right? Because this situation, I mean, that's what ended up making this family not choose us is because of how horrible one particular kind of interaction went related to housing. And now I've had people, as I've told this story, and I'm like, I feel like we failed them as a community. I did take it personally. I invested a lot of time with them. When I called her or she called me to, like, explain what had all happened, I, like, actually cried. I was so sad that they weren't going to be moving here, right? And so I started thinking, like, we need somebody in Oakes that can field those phone calls and really do it to help employers. We've had situations since I've been back here where we've been like recruiting a superintendent, let's say. Those are big positions in a town like ours. And I was asked if I would do a community tour for the superintendent candidates. And I remember thinking like, I don't know what I would show them in a community tour that at the time it wasn't even my job, right? I didn't do economic development. So anyway, it was like all these things where I thought, okay, what if we actually had a person that their role was to sell the community. On the recruitment side in particular, like, if someone's coming here to apply for a job and they're interviewing, what if we can build into that part of their day that we take them out into the community and give them a community tour? And then we just were their point of contact to help onboard them into the community, right? So these were some of the things that I was like, I really think this matters. So you were coming back, and you and I started talking about it. And as soon as you were like, I would do that. Then I thought, okay, I really wanna figure out how to make this work. So originally I went to the Economic Development Board and floated this whole concept by them. That was a mistake. So the mistake that I made was that I didn't have enough of it firmed up and I hadn't actually talked to our employers. So then the next meeting I went, I had gone to our 4 major employers and every single one of them said, We would absolutely get behind the half funding of this pilot salary, right? So I found half of the money kind of in pledges, I guess we'll call it, right? And so then I went back and all I was doing was going to Economic Development saying, let's meet the employers where they're at. The public funding, let's— and so we have—

the people who are out there, the employers, the ones who are— they've created the jobs, deal with this, these, you know, these new employees all the time. They see this as a need.

So it's—

You know, and like, kind of like what you were saying with earlier too, when you move to a small community and it's something that as the people who live here, we don't realize. We don't get it because we've been here since we were born, right? Like a lot of us were born here and lived here our whole life.

And even if you move away and you come back, you still don't understand how hard it is to move into a community where you have zero ties.

And to just find your people, to find your organizations and your churches and your— that is really hard. And kind of way back to what drew me to this position was I did that, right? When I wasn't in Oaks for a few years, I did that. I moved to a community that I had no ties. I would have loved someone that was just there to ask questions, to help me out. And so that was another kind of draw to this position was to be able to be that person for someone because we don't realize it unless you go move away for a while. You don't realize how hard it is to get settled into a small town specifically.

Yeah.

Where everyone is from that town. And so, yeah, it's definitely something we need. There's a lot of people in our community right now that have been here for even a year that never seen him in my life because they don't have people to go out and do things with. So they just don't. Right. And it's sad. It is. It is.

Well, and the bigger picture is— so I think what might get lost in this conversation, it's not just like a nice thing to do. I mean, it's super nice. It helps us be welcoming and warm and all those things that small towns want to be.

Right.

But it is more about the fact that people don't stay if they don't find a sense of true belonging and connection and community. Like, people don't stay. Yeah. If they never root down in any meaningful way or connect with other people in this community in any meaningful way, just that they had no ties when they came here, they still don't, you know, right, 3 years later.

So they don't feel the need to stay here. They don't, they don't. It's not hard for them to leave, right? And so the whole concept too is just honestly making it hard for someone to leave. Connecting them with the right people and the right organizations and clubs and programs and—

Right. And giving them— like, my big thing is helping people find where they can contribute the best of themselves. Like, that's what all communities need, right, is people contributing what they were created to have and to steward, and also what they're passionate and what they love and all those things. That is so much work for the employers to do.

Yeah. On their own, right? You know, I was just having a conversation with one of our employers today and she was saying, it's like nobody here has the time. We want them to stay, but we spend our time making sure that our business is running how it needs to run and getting them settled into our business. We don't have the time to onboard them into our community, essentially.

Right.

And so then they don't stay.

Right. Well, that particular employer that you're talking about, she and I had visited about just the fact too that if there's a big age difference even between, let's say, an HR person or the owners or whatever, and then the employee, like, well, okay, so that's an example. But then like I was getting my hair colored and the stylist was saying to me that there was a guy that had moved here from the cities. He works for Bobcat, which is a manufacturing plant half an hour from here, right? But he chose to live here. And she said he had come in and he said, I've been here for a while, a few months. What is there to do on the weekends, in the evenings? And she was like, I'm 30, and I'm a mom of two really little kids. And she said, I just looked at him and said, I don't really know. I mean, that's another example. It's like, since we have figured this out and you've been coming on board, I feel like I'm hearing more and more examples of how we're not wrong about this. Are we doing the exact right thing? Beats me, TJ. Right. We don't—

we don't—

no idea. We don't know. But the truth is, like, this work matters. And even if part of it is that you're on a giant fact-finding mission for a year and you learn all the— maybe talk a little bit about some of the things that you've done in the 2 and a half weeks that you've been here.

Like, yeah, I mean, it's been 2 and a half weeks and I a guy who has been working in town for a year now, maybe. I don't know how long he's been here, but he's been working in the community and he's been commuting from an hour away. He works half the time from here and half the time from home, but he has to still do a lot of driving with his position here. It does require a lot of driving, and he's back and forth from an hour away. I mean, that's 2 hours round trip. And it's sometimes evening things, and so he's not getting home until midnight. And, um, so he's came to me and he's like, you know, we just want to move here because, you know, we like it here. His wife works from home, so she doesn't have anything to worry about. And so I've already been on the hunt for them for some housing, and then multiple apartment buildings in town I've gotten, or units I've gotten photos of and gotten those updated on our website because we're trying to get that a little more consistently updated and refreshed. And then also somebody came to me looking for a commercial property. I mean, mentioned it that day, wasn't even mentioning it to me actually. I overheard the conversation.

Yeah. And you just said, you're in the office with me as the economic developer and the chamber. Yeah. Right. So it's like, you're gonna hear these things, right?

So I'm like, hey, like, here's two. We went and looked at them that day. She is getting a lease signed, I believe, this week, right? So I mean, and that's 2 and a half weeks, you know? And these are just things that, like, like the commercial property, for example, she was super concerned about it. Like, the day before, she's like, I was up, like, what are we gonna do, you know, whatever, whatever. And I'm like, You know, we're like, done deal. We'll take care of you.

Right.

So, I mean, there's lots to—

there's lots to be done. So let's talk a bit about the other things that we like, kind of the plan anyway, right? So you're, you're going out and you're meeting with employers. What are you talking to them about? What we've already talked about, like community tours when they're interviewing. And but what is like, what does the onboarding thing look like? What are just some of the things that we're going to try?

Yeah, relocation.

Yeah.

Basically one of these employers, any employer in town, it doesn't even have to be one of these, you know, her top employers.

Yeah.

Anyone in town, they get a new employee from out of town, you know, whatever. Just basically I want to give them a tour and I set up a tour guide for myself of the staple places that they need to know about. And then in chatting with them, I'll find out what things they're interested in.

Right.

And gear the rest of the tour towards that. You know, if they're into outdoors things, hunting, you know, fishing, stuff like that. Depending what they're interested in. We'll give them a tour based on that, and then also based off of that, connect them with organizations, clubs, different programs that we have in town that are— I mean, we have a lot.

We do.

I was coming up with the list a couple weeks ago, and I'm like, holy cow, I didn't realize there is a lot. So there is something for everyone. So just to get them connected with those people, because that's how they're gonna meet people and that's how they're going to make friends here. And yep, so that's another big one. And then obviously I think one of the biggest things is to maintain contact with this person because they're still a new resident for at least a year.

For at least a year, I agree.

So it's like, you know, it takes one full year to see everything that goes on in Oaks. And so to get them involved and, you know, maintain contact with them And then we also kind of talked about the member drive too, and just like creating something where new community members can come to one space and see everything that we have to offer, right?

So almost like a career fair but for community groups. Yeah, and I don't know that we've ever done that.

Yeah, it's really— I think it would be— I mean, it'd be a great way to meet people to get involved, so So getting that organized as well will be another big factor in it. Right.

With the employers, there's one kind of one group of people you're asking them to identify, right, that you could reach out to right away.

Yeah. So a lot of our larger employers in town have people who commute, a lot of people who commute. I mean, this one that I met with today started listing off like 10 people.

10 that drive in.

Yes.

Yeah.

So they're driving in from these outside communities, and, and I understand, like, some just have ties to that community, and that's not where you live. Yeah, that's totally great. But, you know, the others, it's like, it would save you so much time and energy if you just lived right here. Like, just come here, and there's so much here for you. So that's another big one, is to get those people here, and then also working with our employers to find out what they need, like what's a position you need filled, right? And creating connections through, you know, different programs, colleges, things like that, to try to get those people to come here. So recruiting new, right, completely new people.

Yeah. And that's— I think every community needs that because there's nobody that can do that work. And this was something super interesting, so One of the employers early on, I mean, these are perfectly fair questions. They're like, okay, well, what do you do? What does Kasia at the chamber? Like, I'm economic development, right? What does Kasia at the chamber do? And then I have, we have an employee, Bailey, right, at Grow Sports. It's like, what do all of you do? And then who's doing this work now? Like, basically, why are you creating a new position? And I was just like, okay, you lay it all out there and you realize that nobody in our respective positions, given that we're a small town and nobody's funded full-time, Nobody, not a single— and Bailey works for Growing Small Towns. She's a full-time position, but she doesn't work for economic development, right? She's the only kind of outlier. But Kasia's part-time. I'm part-time in terms of hours devoted to this. And then when you just go, no, this work isn't being done. Like, we do what we can, but nobody—

well, when you also all have your other responsibilities, these are the things that get brushed under the table because nobody has time for them. But they're really important things that do need to be done.

Yeah.

And have the proper amount of time dedicated to them.

Yeah. I think the idea of, of finding who is already commuting, so they have one tie to the community and it's a job that they like.

Right.

And so, yeah, just that idea of proactively saying, if you love where you live, great, but what if you didn't have to drive? I'm here to help make that happen for you. I just think it's so powerful.

Yeah, you know, it just makes somebody feel very welcomed and wanted in the community. And that's like such a great feeling for them to be like, oh, like they want me here. So, you know, let me give that an opportunity and a chance.

So, well, and again, I think it's not like just public officials, but I think it's a lot of the public maybe just doesn't know how often we're talking to people like— I've been challenged on this, that there's not a lot of people that are going to move here without ties here. I simply look at them and I say, based on what?

Quite honestly, small town living is like trendy. I don't want to say trendy because it's not something that's ever— yeah, you know what I mean.

Maybe it's trending.

Trending, yes. Like, you're not my age, like, are in love with the concept of like a simpler life where you still get everything that you need and you're fulfilled. And like, people are realizing that that happens in a small town. So it's like the thing to do kind of right now. Like, we have so many people my age that I, like, I went to high school and stuff with that are already back or planning on moving back to Oaks, right? I mean, people love it. So there's no reason that just because they're not from here that they wouldn't want to move here.

Well, and I think the communities, seriously, that are willing to raise their hand and say, have you thought about us? We'd love to show you the place. Like, that sounds super simple and kind of maybe almost ignorant, naive. I don't think it is. I mean, I'm seriously saying, like, if you stand up somehow publicly, whether it's Facebook or it's just proactively reaching out and saying, we'd love to have you here. Like, come and look at it. Let's talk about what it is you want to do and whether or not you can make those things happen here. That— there's nothing crazy about that at all.

No, absolutely not. And small towns are— it's hard for people. There's a lot of small towns in the world, and so people are like, you know, maybe they want to, but they don't even know where to begin, right? So the people who stand up and say, you know, like you're saying, like, hey, us right here, we want you, that's gonna stand out to them because they're so overwhelmed that they're just like, okay, like, let's see what you got.

Yeah. So yeah, the other thing that's cool, and I would love your opinion on this, I've never tested this idea with you, but just generationally, right? Like there's serious trends with what's happening. So I'm Gen X, then you've got Gen Y, then you've got Gen Z, and then the youngest of the young are going to be coming in. I don't even know what they're called. I don't know. They have a name, but I don't know. Yeah, I think they're— we're testing—

they're testing out ideas.

But like, one of the things that's really important to this younger generation is like a sense of purpose and meaningfulness to their work. Like, they aren't as wired. They want to have play. Like, that's important to their lives, right? And then also this like social consciousness. They actually care about stuff. They're more socially conscious than any generation that came before them. At least like according to statistics and trends, and they're watching how they're operating in the workplace. That makes you guys perfect for a town like ours because I think there's this stereotype, you know, you can contribute in a meaningful way.

Absolutely. And there's a stereotype with my generation which, yeah, let's talk about it. Depending on who you ask, I'm either the very tail end of the millennials or I'm the very beginning of the Gen Z, right? I would probably say I fall more in the Gen Z But there's a stereotype that like Gen Z kids don't want to work and that we don't, you know, we're unmotivated and we don't want to do anything. And that's just so not true. I mean, because at the end of the day, for one thing, we have to, to live, right? So, so we do want a job. And I mean, I hear from people around town too that their hardest workers are people in my generation. And it's like, well, so then we do wanna work, right? You know, and there's just, there's so many stereotypes and it's how it is. Every new generation gets them, which the fact that I'm no longer the youngest generation is—

I can feel how old you are, but you're still such a baby. It's okay.

I won't think about it. But there's just stereotypes with it and it's just not true. And, and I think that it kind of, in a way, maybe people get hesitant to like hire people in that generation or give them a chance because they're just going off of what they've heard, right? But it's like, well, no, because for one thing, everyone's different and maybe you had one bad experience, but majority of us are not like that.

Well, and I would also, I would also argue, you know, like the other professional background that I have is in organizational development, right? Like this is what I do. I go into companies and we talk about these things. So the other thing I would challenge communities and employers to really think about is what if there's ways that you could be leading differently? What if there are ways that you could be making your workplace feel different to this younger generation?

How do you adjust to the things that they need and that they want and that— yep, because maybe how you're doing things right now, that's not how we learned them or how we want to do them, but that doesn't mean that we're not going to still do what needs to be done. We just want to approach it in a different way, right? And I think that my generation too is one with a lot of ideas. I feel like we're very— like, we have ideas and we want to do them, but they might take being a little more open-minded about things, right, to understand. And once we do them, they're great and they'll work, but you just have to be open to that, you know?

Yeah, well, and that's everything. That's community groups, that's projects, that's committees, that's churches. And that's the challenge I think is I want people to think about instead of saying they don't X, Y, or Z, like they don't work hard, they don't care, they're entitled, they're whatever. We're talking about your generation, right? Instead of looking at it that way, saying, okay, what about them do they contribute? What about this generation could we benefit from, learn from, be better about? And then it's like, okay, How do we adjust some of the ways we've always done things?

Yeah, to teach them what we already know too, to make them even better. Yeah, it's also at the end of the day, like, small towns rely on these younger people coming in because without them, the small town will die. So it's like, at the end of the day, they are the future. Yeah, we need you, community, of the world, but of your community. So just trying to learn from them and how they want to be taught things and then going about it maybe a little bit different way, right? It will make them stick around.

Yeah. And people, again, like, I hear the feedback I get is, I don't want to have to cater. Like, it's this frustration, like, well, why do I have to adjust everything? And I always say to people, you don't have to do anything, but then you also don't get to complain and completely label that whole generation as being not workable for you. Like, it's just a reframing of the challenge that exists.

Yeah, of course it's hard. Of course, yeah, you've been doing something the same way for so long, it's difficult to just be like, oh, I have to— and not that you need to completely change every single thing you're doing, but just to adjust to, well, you know.

Yeah, and let them share, right?

They have ideas and they, yeah, can make your business better. They, for one thing, understand technology. I can guarantee you they understand it better than you.

Mm-hmm. Yep. Almost unequivocally, I would say.

Because, yes.

You know?

And so, like, let them help you too.

Mm-hmm.

You know? Because they can bring a lot to your business if you just give them the opportunity.

And overall, like, we're talking about business, but we're talking about community. Like, and this is, like, a true statement. I don't just look at you. I don't just look at Bailey, who is similar in age to you, right? I don't just look at you two and think like, you know, oh, like they're just the future. And with— it's also about the present. You make things better by being here. You have energy. Like, I love your energy. Literally, I'm like, I keep hiring young people because they are so energetic. And you're open-minded. And you guys both, you embody the things that Growing Small Towns was founded based on, like you care about who we've been as a community, right? That's one of the things we honor the past. Like, that's important to me.

Yeah.

Because I never want anybody who's been here forever to think that I don't care about them just because they've been here for forever. No. It's that and what comes next, right? And you're willing to try new things. You're willing to embrace differences in people. Like, I think that's really important if our communities are going to thrive. We have to just continue to crack our minds and our hearts open a little bit to differences, like true differences in— I'm not even just talking skin color because we still have a pretty good— it's pretty homogeneous here, right? It is. It just is. But if you're talking religious differences or political differences or just ways of thinking that are unique to people, we have to start to make space for that. Or we're not gonna make it.

Can't go any further than you are now.

Right, exactly. And then the last thing is that your generation, by your very nature, you're very collaborative. Mm-hmm. You have good ideas and you want to work with other people to make them happen. Mm-hmm. So I mean, those are the 5 values of this organization. That's why I'm so drawn to people like you. And I think too that there is something almost magnetic about what's happening in Oaks right now. I really do. I mean, absolutely. I think the fact that you said like a lot of my classmates, They're talking about moving back. And now all we have to do is to every young person that chooses to come back here, I wanna ask every single one of you, who are people that you'd love to do life with here? Why don't we invite them too?

Right?

Like, they don't have to have any connections to here because now you're their connection to here, right?

Yes.

You know? Yeah. Even visitors, because we've done this building and because a lot of my professional work is still in Fargo, right? I have brought so many people down here. Yeah, like so many people come and visit, they come to see me, but then they, they get the whole— they explore, they get the whole thing. And then a lot of them are like seeing our chiropractors here. Like, it's crazy, it's, it's crazy.

Everyone who comes here always says like, this is a great small town. And from other small towns that I've just even visited, wherever in the world, I'm always comparing it to Oaks, and I'm like, it's just not the same. Like, and I think a lot of times too, people that do live here can take the opportunities we have for granted.

I do too.

And it's unfortunate because it's like, no, just like take one second and just like stop and think about really how much we have here. It's actually crazy for a town our size.

Yeah. And I love that. That's one of my favorite things that I get to say, and I get to say it and mean it, right? Like, Oaks is special. Like, the variety of businesses that we have in our little town, it's really, really cool. And again, I don't think that there's a recipe for every community, because like, if we were Castleton, North Dakota, for example, yeah, 20 quick miles outside of Fargo, we would have completely different challenges, right, than we have. But do I think that Castleton can still figure out a plan for themselves? And it's just Paula Jensen. I happen to be just naming them, but I like, I know they're developers and I know some of their team up there, right? And I, I just think they absolutely can. It's just gonna look different.

It's gonna be different. Yeah. They have different things to focus on.

But I do think the recruitment and engagement of our younger generation is something that every small town is angling to figure out. Mm-hmm. And I think some of it, and we've talked about this too, talk a little bit about your thoughts about the school, just some of the things that we need to be doing from a community level. Yeah, in the school.

I mean, I was just kind of chatting with Kasia about this too. It's like, yes, we can recruit new people in and we can do all of this, but it's like, let's just stop for one second and look at the people already here. Like the high schoolers that they're already here, they grew up here, they are graduating from here, they are already familiar. Like we need to put our focus and our energy too into getting them to come back after school. And there's programs already out there that can help greatly in that. So it's another thing that I've been talking with our bigger employers about too, is those programs to get them to come back, because it's like, yeah, and they're gonna meet people in college, and maybe those friends in college are gonna want to come here too. And right, so like, let's also not just put all of our energy into recruiting people here, but like, yeah, get the ones that are already here to come back. And like I said too, a lot of them that I went to school with now are coming back. So we need to keep that.

And I think that's a trend that wasn't as common maybe before.

I look at the generations, like I'm thinking the people who were in high school when I was in elementary and whatever. A lot of those people didn't come back. It's a newer thing that I think we're seeing.

Yep.

But it's just a matter now of how do we like maintain that and continue to grow it and like keep that instead of it being a— this whole generation didn't really come back and then this one all did and then the next one won't. So we need to keep it to where they just continue coming back.

Well, I think there's a few things with this. One, it's like when you really think about how limited your perspective of your broader community might have been when you were in high school. Now, mine was really limited. I had grandparents that had a Main Street business. Had I not had that, I would have had very little understanding of what happened on Main Street because I lived in the country. Right? I grew up in the country. So that's one thing is just thinking like, how do we— give them a different sense of what this community is. I think another thing that is positive is when— Kasia and I were talking about this— like when we engage youth groups like DECA and FFA or FCCLA, like those groups to do things that are connected to community events and things like that, then they see civic engagement differently, right? They kind of see a little bit of the inner workings of like how our town runs.

Yep.

And then they can maybe start to see themselves in that differently, right?

Yep. And a lot of them, kind of to your point of, you know, your grandparents having a business here, a lot of these students and kids, if they don't have parents who have jobs where they're actively involved in the community, they don't get it. Know over half of the businesses we have.

Exactly.

I was coming up with kind of a rough draft thing that I wanted to present, you know, with the school to kind of maybe potentially bring to our students. And part of it was just writing down and categorizing every single business we have in Oaks.

Uh-huh.

I have fun. I was like, didn't know that existed.

Yeah.

So it's like these high schoolers have no idea the opportunities that are here already. And like, not even just the ones that already businesses that are already here, but like the opportunities of businesses that could be here, right? So showing them like, this is other things that we do need in town. So just because if you want to do this as a career and it's like, oh well, we don't have that at home, so I can't do that here. You can, you can be the one that brings it here, right? So it's trying to just get that across to the students and like make sure that every single student in the school system is aware of the opportunities and knows about these things and knows about the programs that exist to help them with school, that sets them up with employers, because they, I guarantee you, have zero clue that those exist.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think the other thing that's cool about it— so you just said, like, on the employment side, saying you might be the one to bring it here. You were one that talked about this with snowshoeing, like with me, like you asked me. So I think that's the other thing too, is that just because your favorite activity doesn't exist currently, right?

Doesn't mean you can't start it.

Start it, try it. And that's what's cool about small towns too. It's like there's low barriers to entry. Like, yeah, it's not that complicated. You want everybody to know, tell Kasia at the chamber about it.

Everyone will know.

Everyone will know. Right. And again, there's just like almost unlimited possibility. And I think the reason it's so important that we're talking about this is because again, it's that direct invitation to students. Yeah, saying like, I get it, a lot of you are gonna go, whether you're gonna get more education or you're gonna go into the workforce or whatever. We just want you to know that go, go ahead and get your experience, get your feet wet doing other things, whatever. But there may come a day, there may come a time when this place, it's either calling you or you don't realize that we still would love to see you here. And we're telling you right now, if and when you're ready, come back.

Come back. Yeah.

Because, like, there's just nothing— again, with our internet, I mean, brag about the internet in North Dakota all the time because it really is actually that phenomenal because we have fiber. Like, it's reliable. Like, there's very little that you can't accomplish and do. Yeah.

And now it's just a matter of making sure everyone knows that. You know? Yeah.

And I think because we don't take it for granted, we just do, right? We just assume everybody knows.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, well, it's been so fun having you in this building and working on these things with us. It's just going to be so much fun. And for sure, since we're like not even a whole month in, for sure, we're going to have you come back and check in. Yeah, we're going to have you come back and share like, what have we really learned this year? Because right now here we are, all shiny and bright, like, that's going to be great. No matter what, TJ, we're gonna learn stuff, right?

Like, absolutely.

That's what the pilot year is about. And like I said at the beginning, like, if nothing else, if all you do is like fact find a bunch of stuff and you build some databases of information that don't exist anywhere, that's huge.

Absolutely.

It's huge.

Yeah.

But I think it's gonna be really fun to talk about like what changes we've really seen with this concerted effort in about a year. And hopefully we're right.

Yeah, fingers crossed. I think we will be. I think it's just something that we needed that people don't realize we needed.

Yeah.

But then once it's here, I think they'll be like, oh yeah, yeah, that's great.

Yeah, it's going to be really exciting and it's just super fun to have you and your energy and it's been so fun.

I love just the easy collaboration with everyone. I mean, we're all just like right here.

Yeah.

And can bounce ideas and it's been great.

Yeah, it's super energizing.

Yeah.

For all of us. So it's gonna be super fun. Mm-hmm. Thanks for coming on the show.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Keep up the good work.

Will do.