95. Changemaking in Small Towns

Hey guys, so over the weekend I learned that several members of the Downtown Happy Hour group on Facebook that is hosted by Joe Borgstrom— we will link to this in the show notes, by the way— um, I found out that there are several of them that are following along with us here, and so I wanted to give a special shout out. And if I don't say your name right, I will record an update. I can only assume your name, my dear, is Marjo. It's J-O. I'm just gonna say it like I see it. Jaime, Terry, and Judy, I just want to say thank you guys. Thank you for listening. I love that you're finding value here. And it was such a, like, truly just a fun, delightful surprise. So I can't say enough how cool it is to hear that people from all over the country, all these people, all 4 of these people are from different states. And I also, of course, wanna give a shout out to groups like Downtown Happy Hour that's pulling people together that have a, you know, some shared vision, but mostly we're all just like in the trenches trying to figure this stuff out as we go. So again, link in the show notes, check that out if you are doing any kind of downtown development or community development work. All right, today I am recording another solo episode and it's not because I can't find enough rad people that are doing rad things because they're everywhere, But it's that one of the things that I've come to believe as one of the truthiest truths that I'll ever know is that one of the best ways to support one another is to share the best of what we're learning. And ideally, if we can share those things and in as close to real time as humanly possible, all the better. Okay, I've also told you that I'm in therapy, and I believe so firmly in the value of its place in my own development that I also promised I would share the best of what my therapist tells me so that you can get better too. And free. Yay, you! Okay, friends, I, I have a doozy for you. I'm actually going to share with you two different episodes today because the first one is what I wrote shortly after this very specific situation happened, and then the second is the one that I was like, okay, here's what I really need to share about this, after I had shared this situation with my therapist. The first one's decent, and 2 of the 3 points are still valid. But boy, oh boy, is, uh, is her reframe not only valuable, but like the content of that is so much better. So I really do believe that the entire game of life is about people. Learning how to read, relate to, connect with, influence, and work with other people. This is the work that legitimately fuels my personal passion. And I eventually, I swear one day I, I'm gonna create something specifically to address the human development, social capital development side of, of this whole world for people in small towns. Because in small towns, our problems really aren't worse, like our people problems aren't worse than they are for people in urban areas. And I don't know if any of you have experienced this, I'm guessing you have, where automatically there's this idea that small towns breed small minds and small-mindedness. And I know that it can feel that way at times, like it can really feel that people are resistant to change in our communities. And so, you know, that's why we're talking about changemaking in this podcast episode. But the truth is, all it is is that it's a problem of scale. So whatever problems, people problems do exist in our communities, they just seem bigger because of the scale. There's, when there's less people to absorb those challenges, the challenges will seem larger. So I wanted to start us out with that just to remind you that if you feel like every time you turn around, you're getting hit in the face with a Negative Nelly or a naysaying person, A, know that you're not alone. We all feel that way. That's hopefully why I'm hoping this— I'm really hoping that this feels as valuable to you as it did to me. A, you're not alone, and B, it's not everybody. There are people in your corner. There are people that see the hard work you're doing, and it just happens to be this unfortunate truth that the cheerleaders aren't often as loud as the detractors. It's just kind of the way it goes. And furthermore, I, I'm gonna say that this reframe that I got from my therapist actually is— it's catching me and it's, um, forcing me to realize that labeling people with negative labels isn't serving me at all. It's not helping me at all. Okay, so If I could ever obtain a new strategy to more effectively— people— for me to more effectively deal with people who are vastly different from me, then I'm all for it. And that's what I'm sharing today. So let me tell you about the incident first. And I'm not gonna lie, like, I'm gonna be— I'm gonna leave out some details because this isn't about running this person down at all in any way. I want you just to get the gist of what happened so you can feel the pain and I can show you what it felt like to me in the moment. And then I'm going to share what happened immediately after, and then I'm going to share how much better I am now that I've also talked to my therapist and I'm going to share what she shared. Okay? So it can be— hopefully it feels like a little swing of growth for you too. Okay? So again, if you— maybe this is the first episode you've listened to. So I run a nonprofit. I founded and I'm the executive director of a nonprofit called Growing Small Towns. And of course, like, you may have found this podcast and I encourage you to check out the work we're doing. But one of the contracts that our organization has is with our local economic development group. So what that means is my organization is the contractor. We're 1099— 1099'd, excuse me, to do economic development services for my town. So it's not a county initiative, it's a community initiative. So I'm responsible for bringing new ideas forward that will drive the growth of Oakes. Some of my work is going to look like traditional economic development work, you know, the idea of business retention and expansion, new resident attraction, helping people launch businesses, right? But because I'm me, some of it's going to look really different because that's what I'm hoping to do is, is I'm not— I've said when people say like, what's your big goal, Rebecca? I'll say to totally redefine the way we think of rural economic development. I guess I'm just like a big shooter. I'm gonna shoot for the moon, whatever. I can't do it the traditional way because it doesn't suit who I am. And so honestly, guys, time will tell, am I the right person to do the work? I actually, I am gonna be honest and say I don't know, right? But this is what I'm doing currently at this point. All parties have agreed we can do the work, or, you know, Growing Small Towns can do the work. So I don't wanna belabor the story itself, but I was working on this grant application for our community that to be successful would require the support of 5 different organizations in town. I'm sure all of you are like, well, of course, because like most grant applications require a show of some sort of community support. So my board knew they were— that I was working on this and they were in support of it. And one of the biggest challenges here was that I waited until the last week of the week it was due to start working on it. And I'm telling you truthfully, it's because I literally couldn't do it any sooner. Like, my time, I just— and I'm sure you guys can so relate to this— I was getting to the point where it was like, okay, when is that thing due? January 31st. Okay, I got time. And it just, it just kept getting pushed off and pushed off. So when I sat down to write this thing, I was hammering that son of a gun out. Like, I was, I was in it. I knew what I was doing. I was ready. And because I wanted to make it super simple for these organizations to say yes, like, we support this, I pre-wrote their letters for them. Okay, I sent them out to the 5, 5 organizations. A couple days go by, I didn't hear anything from one of them. Um, 3 came back right away. The 4th, the guy was needed, he was gone, so I knew it would take a bit. And the fifth was this individual. So I ended up seeing him at a meeting, pulled him aside and asked, hey, you know, did you get a chance to sign my letter? And I'm not going to share with you like how the interaction went, but essentially he said no. He just said he wouldn't sign it. And it was mostly due to timing, felt like I was rushing it, you know, all of that stuff. And I'm not going to lie, I was royally pissed, like, like hot, like 0 to 60, just hot. Because I had spent all this time and like, this is good for the community and how can you not see this? And I'm not asking you like, again, all the things that I thought in my head, like, and right away I labeled him, okay? I labeled him as a roadblock. I laid, and that's, I mean, gosh, that's like putting it nicely. There was a lot of expletives that flew out of my mouth, not at him. I don't, so here's the thing, I do, I can keep my composure, but I was certainly stunned. And at some point I asked the question, Gosh, like, I didn't mean to be presumptuous or, you know, I didn't mean to make assumptions and, you know, so, but we're here and like, I can't apply, I can't move forward without your support. Is there anything I can do, any information I can give you? And he was just like, no. So he wasn't going to budge. And he walked out of my office and I went straight to my computer and I sent emails to the other 3 parties that had said they would, that they would support it.. And I told them that the timing wasn't right. I made the choice in that moment to choose my own energy preservation over something that would've been really great for our town. And, and that sounds super, uh, composed. I wasn't composed at all. I cried a little bit. I was so hot. I went home and I just unloaded on my husband. Like, I, I mean, I, I bitched hard and you know, because he's my spouse, he jumped right on the Rebecca train. Like he took my side immediately. I didn't sleep very well. That night. And the whole thought was I knew that some of his concerns were valid, but I couldn't believe that I couldn't— like, how could— why couldn't I get him to work with me on those things? And I was so pissed off and I wasted— that's the thing too. If he had just told me right away that he wasn't going to sign my letter, I wouldn't have done all the extra work that I did. So that was, that was probably a lot of it too. But I'm not going to lie, I felt I felt misunderstood and I felt judged and I felt like he was an asshole standing in my way. That is, those are the actual thoughts that I had. Okay, so the next day I wake up and I thought to myself, you know, God, like, what, what should I have done differently? So here's where my initial thoughts to that question became my, my first draft of an episode for you guys. So I'm going to tell you like those 3 points that I had written down right away, and then I'm going to share that I shared all of those, like I shared everything I just shared with you and my episode outline with my therapist. And then I'm gonna tell you how much better it got. Okay? So hang with me here. I know this is kind of deep. There's a lot of details. Okay? But so my first thoughts, I was like, okay, I had been told no, and that's rejection. And whether we take it, like truly take it personally or not, the feelings of being told no can be kind of raw and kind of hard to move through. But after a little time had passed, like after I had really not slept on it, but stewed on it, we'll call it stewing on it all night long, I realized that this no, his no, opened up something for me. And I realized that by not pursuing this grant, that I also would get all the time back that I would have spent implementing the work of the grant. Like saying no, him saying no means I don't have to work with him on this thing going forward. It would've involved him. And so I was like, well, gosh, that's a— I dodged a bullet. That's how I saw it, right? I dodged a bullet. I told myself that I could find probably 10 other ways to earn that revenue without the suck on my energy. And that's really point number 1. When you get a no of any kind, it's helpful to think about what opens up for you because of that no. Like, what do you actually get back? If you really can step back and think about it from that standpoint, more than likely there's gonna be something that you gain from what— instead of seeing it as a lost opportunity, there's now room somewhere in some way. Um, and that's what I urge you to look for. Okay, point number 2: because I'm me, I'm probably going to struggle for the rest of my damn life with this— the balance of knowing when I'm forcing something versus just pushing us to be better. That's challenging for me, and I swear I'm probably always gonna struggle a little bit. So before talking to my therapist, I, I decided that I would know if I was forcing something, if I was trying to go where my energy wasn't wanted. Because I've said this before, it is my mantra, it's been my mantra the entire time that I've been building up this nonprofit. It's work with the willing and love the rest. So I decided that like, okay, if even if my idea, my idea, or the thing I'm trying to move forward is stellar, it won't matter if others aren't willing, right? So timing is everything, and if the energy doesn't align, maybe the timing's not right. All in all, not a bad thing to consider. So point number 3 here is that there's a difference between— this is the point that I had written down, this is all talking prior to talking to my therapist— I said that there's a difference between a person being uncertain and expressing hesitation. Versus a person who's resistant and they're expressing lack of support. Now, on its face, I thought this seemed like a pretty generous way to look at the situation. I had asked him, what else could I offer? What else can I do that would help you change your mind? He said nothing. And so I knew it was dead in the water. But the question's still pretty valid. It's the idea that We tend to, we tend to equate somebody that just doesn't have all the information they need with a person who's resistant. And sometimes it's because of the delivery. Sometimes it's because of the word choice. Like, I get that there's a lot of other things that play into this, but it was on this point that my therapist equipped me with what I truly believe might be the biggest game-changing framework that I've ever come across in my professional career. Like, I'm gonna repeat that. Did you hear that, guys? Like, the biggest. So I, after I related this story to her and the above points, you know, those 3 points, I said, I've just realized that I should focus my energy on the people who are open-minded and open-hearted. I can't work with people that are resistant to change. And she looked at me, so we're on Zoom because she lives far away from me, she replies, Of course you can, Rebecca. To which I said with a little bit of, what? How dare you? Again, it was a fairly knee-jerk reaction. I said, yeah, but at what personal risk? I have to protect my precious energy. I'm one person. I'm doing all of this work by myself. How on earth do I do that? And then she dropped the following framework on me, and I'm now dropping it on you. So what she shared with me are the 5 stages of change. Now, I'm a corporate— I was a corporate, you know, training consultant, organizational development consultant. I have helped companies through a lot of change. Like, again, oftentimes I said to her— she asked me, how familiar are you with, you know, stages of change? And I said, well, truth is, a lot of the books that most kind of consultants just around change management, those people, what they would tend to recommend, present these theoretical conceptual frameworks that never freaking work in real life. And I've never found a change management process or tool that felt super helpful to me because again, like, I, I love theory and I love concepts, but unless it works on Main Street with average people, just average, normal, typical people using it, then it's best left for the textbooks, in my opinion. So she said, no, I promise this is— she said, this is straightforward, it's simple, and now I'm going to share it with you and you're going to probably be like, oh my gosh. But then I'll share with you kind of some of our conversation that followed after it. And I hope, man, I hope it hits you between the eyes and right in the gut, in the heart. Like, I want to get hit in all the places. I just want you guys to be totally beat up and bruised with the goodness of this tool because it changed everything for me with this particular situation. Okay, so the 5 stages of change are pre-contemplation, contemplation, preparation, action, and relapse prevention. And when— then what she shared with me is, as the person driving a change. So sometimes, let's, you know, looking at this, sometimes the changes that we're trying to make are driven internally, right? It's not something that someone's presenting to us as an idea that we could adopt or not adopt. Sometimes, you know, a great example— I mean, I hate to always use it, but it's deciding to lose weight, you know. So that's all motivated internally. How we get it— and again, we'll kind of walk through this— but so it's the person driving the change. So if that's you driving a change, or you're trying to create change outside of you and you need to get other people on board, This is the stuff that people need at each stage of change. Okay? So then we can talk about this. So in number 1, in precontemplation, people aren't even really thinking about it yet because they haven't, it hasn't really occurred to them. Okay? So the first thing they need is information. So, we're gonna take both my example, the real life example that I experienced where I'm trying to create this change for someone else and the weight loss example. So in pre-contemplation for this grant, they would need to know that the grant is even available because they wouldn't know that it's something we could apply for and create as a way forward if they didn't know it existed. Okay. For an individual, your pants would suddenly, like the pants you've worn before would suddenly have to not button. Like you'd have to have some, or you'd look at a picture of yourself and go, oh, I'm not so happy about that. Or whatever it is that hits you where you go, oh. That's pre-contemplation. You're— you need something to hit you that makes you think, gosh, maybe there's something I should do about that. That should make sense, right? Okay. Stage number 2, contemplation. You now know that a change is, is maybe possible, or it's something you might wanna pursue. And now what you need is more information. So maybe you need testimonials, like, okay, for a weight loss example, maybe you need to see that other people have effectively done it. Not necessarily what they're doing or how they're doing it. Maybe you need to remind yourself that you've done it before. You need information. Maybe you just need to talk to people and say, I'm thinking about doing this. Maybe it's your doctor, maybe it's your whatever. In my case, it's like the specifics. It's, when is the grant deadline due? Tell us what the parameters are. What are you exactly asking for us? Okay, number 3 is preparation. What people need in that are actual resources. So with our weight loss people, this is where they need to say, okay, they're gonna go out and they're gonna gather up the actual plan. So they're moving out of just thinking about doing it to kind of actively making plans to do it. It's different than just thinking about it, right? So they're gathering their tools. The tools and the resources that I would've been given, giving this person for this grant would've been the letter that I wrote them. I wrote a letter to make it easier for them to support it. I— okay, so again, we'll come back, but that would have been a tool. It would have been, um, again, maybe, maybe the entire— maybe my whole proposal would have been something that I would have had to give to them, right? Number 4 is action. What they need at that point is support and encouragement. So again, as the person trying to lose weight, you need people— you need to figure out a way either to support yourself and encourage yourself, like if you give yourself tiny little wins when you hit certain milestones, or you get an accountability group, let's say, and they do that for you. In this case, it would have been constant checking in and saying, "Here's where we're at. Here's what we're doing. You guys are doing great." Lots of emails, lots of follow-up. Relapse prevention is simply about trying to do everything we can to prevent the old habit from taking over. So obviously, that's pretty clear what you do when it comes to weight loss. In my case, it's— what they need is support, encouragement, sometimes coaching. Sometimes evaluation or analysis of what plans being implement— being implemented, and then what adjustments need to be made to get better results. So relapse prevention isn't exactly as clear with my grant proposal, except it's like, okay, we're moving forward, we're doing it, and then after the fact, if we got the grant, it would constantly be reminding people why we're doing it, constantly again just saying, is the way we're doing this working? Keeping everybody in the loop, making sure that there's a lot of feedback loops present. Okay. All right. So thinking about this, I'm listening to her and I said, so my big mistake, if I made one, and I looked at her and I said, I feel confident that this went exactly as it was. It ought to go like it was. It went exactly as it was supposed to go. And she said, that's very wise of you, dear. She, she sometimes tells me I'm wise. Maybe that's why I like her so much as my therapist. This. I don't know. But I said, I definitely could have done this differently. And because I'm— I don't get to not work with this person. Like, like, hands up, friends, how many of you work with people that you really struggle to work with but you don't get to just stop working with them because they're difficult for you, right? Like, this is the thing. I said, what I realized is that by the time I came to him, in my mind, it was like I had moved through pre-contemplation, contemplation, preparation. I was in action. And I came at him from a place of action when he was in— he could have been in contemplation because he knew this. He knew this grant existed, but he had no idea, like, what I wanted to do. And okay, okay. Like, here's where, as a, you know, the shittier part of my personality, I want to say, well, God, like, I've been doing all this work for so long. Like, why wouldn't you just trust me? But then there— what I'm doing when I do that is I'm labeling him. It isn't— I, I have to— what the, the processes, the steps, like the stages, what it allows me to do is just to take a giant step back and say, okay, what stage is he likely in? And you may not know, but like I could have asked better questions. And to begin with, I wouldn't have approached him the way I did. So what I would have done instead, if the deadline had been tight, I would have— I would have picked up the phone or tried to see him in person, and I would have said, hey, I know this is really last minute, but I'm working on this grant. You probably know that it's out there. I think we could get this for the community, and here's what I'm thinking we should do, you know, what do you think? Then it would be a dialogue, and he'd be in at the beginning. And again, it sounds like, well, obviously you would do that, but I think sometimes we, we don't. Like, we, we think if we just take care of details well, well enough that people will get on board because we're— we kick ass at our jobs and we work hard and we're smart and we're efficient and we're effective. But it's, it's not giving people the time they need to move through these stages. Now, again, like All I can say about this is I still, the result, the end outcome and result still maybe would have been the same. But when I, when she talks this through with me, what, what this helps us to do or helps me to do is really attack the problem and not the person. Think for a minute with me, friends, about the difference between seeing this individual as a power-hungry asshole who doesn't want our town to be progressive versus an individual who is in the pre-contemplation stage of change. I mean, come on, like, think of the difference. Like, if I was able to just be like, oh gosh, like, that's totally fair, you're way back here, I'm way up here, why would I expect you to love this? Like, it's just— I don't know, guys, like, maybe I'm, maybe I'm just simple. Maybe I'm a simple-minded person and this like just hit me harder than it would if I were smarter. I don't know. But here's what I know. If we can objectively see people as being in a stage of change, at least we have a way forward. Always, always, always, if we remain curious versus accusatory, we're gonna get further. So like in the end, if I had known this ahead of time, I'm— it might not have changed my outcome because there are a ton of other things at play. There's The interplay between two people is not simply just the stages of change, okay? There's personalities that can be conflicting, there's priorities that can be conflicting, and there's timing challenges. No matter what, there's a, there's a confluence of factors that help us be successful in these kind of endeavors. But I am telling you, if I had known this sooner, I never would have approached him the way I did. And I think it at least, at least would have been less of an uncomfortable unpleasant exchange between us. So I'm still probably gonna vent to my husband and my closest loved ones when people piss me off, because I know they will, because I'm doing the kind of work that just kind of guarantees it. Like, I don't know, maybe someone out there, maybe one of you is listening to this and you do this kind of work and you never step on toes, overstep your boundaries, or make anybody upset. If so, please reach out to me and tell me all your secrets, and then I'll have you on the show and you can make us all smarter. I really think this is a common thing for all of us. My goal is to at some point learn, learn these strategies and create habits out of these strategies so that it reduces the immediacy and strength of my negative response. If I'm able to take a full step back and think about the stage that they're in, it's gonna help me identify what they might need that will drive my questions. I'll get better questions and Eventually I'll get better results. I'm probably still going to call people an asshole at times. But for me, this truly is game-changing to think about all the changes I'm trying to initiate in all the areas of my life. You know, ultimately what this process lets me do, and I like, I really thanked my therapist. I just couldn't stop thanking her for sharing this with me. It allows me to be generous of spirit. And it allows me to offer more grace than what might even be deserved. And that is who I want to be in the world. My husband hasn't always agreed with this. He actually said to me once, "Gosh, you're just letting them off the hook." And I think his point is, so my husband has a really strong sense of justice. And I can understand, I can understand and appreciate that. I really can. But at the end of the day, who am I to tell people that they're wrong? Who made me judge, jury, and executioner of the behavior of other people? And furthermore, if I think they're wrong, does convincing them of that actually make me right? Getting our projects or our ideas and our actions to a point of commitment and buy-in versus compliance and apathy That's the goal. And for me, if using a different approach gets me there faster, then I actually don't care if they realize the error of their ways because I'm responsible for my own growth. Guys, I, I hope that you find this process as immensely helpful as I did, because here's the, here's the last bit of real-life example. Again, this, this example, it carried out. I've said this before, that In a town of 1,800 people, which is how many people live in my community, a lot of the mainstream advice for self-development, things like respect yourself enough to walk away from people who drain your energy and like F the haters, like that kind of advice, it's trite and it doesn't work in a small town because it's pretty hard to do that kind of thing when you're gonna run into these people in the grocery store. And I've even said it, they might sit behind you in a church pew. Just today, just this morning— oh, I got verklempt for a second, my emotions caught in my throat. Just today, I kneeled at our communion rail in church, 4 people down from this individual. I can't tell you how amazing it felt to not harbor any resentment or ill will towards him because I truly didn't. This reframe allowed me to see his actions totally differently. And, and we're not pursuing this project now, like it's dead, but I'm so grateful for the lesson. It felt like I've joked that I like, I get tense. I wear all my feelings. I get flooded really fast. And this just feels like I still get to be the best of me and see people in a way that doesn't label them because it's the labels. When we label a person with negativity, whether we call them an asshole or we call them a roadblock, or we even say they're just resistant to change. That's us deciding who they are instead of stepping back and saying, what's the actual problem? And is there a way to solve the problem? The problem is not a person, but it might be in this case just the stage of embracing this change that they're in. I hope that at the end of the day, this process, and I believe it will, but my hope is that it makes me a better human. Because after all, isn't that the entire point? I want to thank you guys so much for listening. We always love to hear from you. Drop me a line at director@growingsmalltowns.org and please share your thoughts and your ideas, especially if you have any specifics about this particular episode. I share these things with an open heart and hopefully if the person that I know that there's a risk involved in this. If the person who is the center of the subject of this exchange listens to this, they'll know that I'm talking about them. But I hope that they know. And if you're listening to this, I guess I'll just say that I would have done things a lot differently. And I hold zero resentment towards you for how this went down. And next time I'll do better because now I know better. Thanks again for listening, guys. I am always cheering you on in your small town. Until next time.