97. How Self-Development Creates Leaders in Small Towns

My guest on today's episode is Christy Burger Jelinek, and she is a consultant and coach working in the areas of life. That's right, Christy is a life coach, and we talk a bit about, um, what a strange and kind of out of the mainstream job title that is for somebody in a small town. In this conversation, we dive into how stress, overwhelm, and burnout show up for people in people's bodies, what it does to us, how it's impacting our communities. Christie does a lot of group coaching, individual coaching, and group sessions with educators. And so we talk a bit about that. I mean, at the end of the day, this is just one big, beautiful conversation about the challenges of being human and how our inability to either acknowledge and/or try to address some of those challenges and by actually taking personal accountability for ourselves holds us back. How it holds us back as people, as companies, and then as a community. This is a— again, I said to her at the end of our conversation, this is the kind of work that really matters to me. It really speaks to my heart. It's the reason I started Growing Small Towns, was to be able to create a safe place where this kind— these kinds of conversations could happen. So I was so grateful to get to really meet and spend some time with Christy. I do expect that I will be inviting her back. So without further ado, enjoy this conversation with Christy. Hey Christy, welcome to the Growing Small Town Show.

Thanks for having me, Rebecca. I'm excited to be here.

Yeah, I'm excited to visit with you. So tell for, um, the listener, just give a quick— I mean, as quick as you can, because I'm sure I'll interrupt you and ask you questions because that's what I do. But maybe give a quick, you know, brief background or history about, you know, who you are and what brought you to doing this kind of work currently.

Yes. Wow. To summarize that, right?

So it's probably a big arc like most of our lives are. So you can pick the highlights. I'll ask questions. We're good.

Exactly. It's really funny just to even sit back and think about how we get from point A to point B, because for me, this was never a goal. This was never something I was going to do. In fact, my— I have a junior right now, and there's a lot of conversation and pressure on him to say, you know, where are you going to school? What do you want to do? And I keep telling him and a lot of high school students, like, don't sweat that. I would have never picked the roles I have ended up in. I would have never went to school for them, and I ended up in them, and they were perfect for me in those moments. So I think there's so much pressure on that. Anyway, already veering off the conversation here.

No, you're good. I actually, um, let's just talk about that real quick before you even share more. So it's kind of, in summary, one of my favorite quotes is that not all who wander are lost. So that kind of idea of— and I've been, I've been saying this too, I, I got to speak to, I've gotten to speak to a few groups of students kind of in the last bit here and talking about that exact thing, that if you really choose to look at your life as just one big learning opportunity, then every job that you take, you can pick up things, right? You, you learn. And really it's all, it's all about discovering who you are. And people think that's super cliché, but like, to me, what, what's the point of who— of being on the earth at all if it's not to figure out who we are and what we're— and how to best use what we've been given, right? So for me, I'm the exact same way. Like, everything I, everything I experience professionally and personally has continued to forge the person that I am. And then it makes you prepared and gets you ready for the next And that's what it sounds like happened to you. Yeah, these kids that are expected to have like a crystal ball, that's just insane. So—

Insane.

And I totally agree.

And I just think we put so much— there's so much pressure on them to, you know, they live in this digital world. There's so much pressure on them to be perfect and to not screw up because it's going to be blasted everywhere. And so having conversations with them saying, listen, we've all screwed up, we've all done it. We just didn't have that hanging over us that it was going to be put all over social media for anyone and everyone to see. So go screw up. You're in a safe container in high school, uh, for the most part. So go experience it. And I, you know, you're, you're so spot on with figuring out, allowing yourself to figure it out as you go. And there are some kids who know what they want to do, and fantastic, and they're on a path and they've got it together. But I feel like we just have so much pressure for kids to figure everything out And I'm in my 40s and I am still figuring it out, right?

Me too.

Every step comes and you're like, oh, I didn't know what I didn't know, right? And I wouldn't have been able to be here without the three— yeah, and all the stumbling blocks and all of the pieces along the way. So that is exactly how I ended up here. I graduated with a degree in communications because it was the most general degree I could get.

Oh, I thought business was the most general because that's—

well, there you go. Take your pick. Take your pick. I could have done business, but I had more credits with communication, so that was the route I went.

Smart cookie. You're like, I'm closer to this one, so let's take that. Kids, listen up. This is what two fully functioning adults— this is what the education path looks like, right? Well, I say fully functioning. I'm mostly functioning, I guess.

Yes, failing forward. Even although I didn't see it as failing, but stumbling forward is more like— it was more like it for me through college. So yeah, I worked in communications. And, uh, the thing that I grew up with, and I think that is another important conversation for not only kids but adults too, is in my generation we were taught the goals and you need to know what— you know, you need to work towards them and strive and push, push, push. And that never felt right for me, never. And even when I would set goals and push I felt like I was constantly running up against a brick wall. And I now have the hindsight to realize because that wasn't my path, that wasn't the journey I was supposed to be on. Mine was more about staying open to opportunities that were put in front of me.

Right.

And so I did that, uh, kind of stumbled through that and eventually ended up— I never really focused either on what I was good at. That was another thing. I think we had a set of skills that were supposed to be good, that adults were supposed to do. And no one ever told me, you're really good at communicating. You're really good at taking words from someone else and, you know, being kind of a bridge between that person and other people. You can translate that. Nobody ever told me that was a skill. So I just took that for granted and thought, eh, okay, great. I need to be good at X, Y, and Z.

Right. Yeah. And just, I think, again, I don't, I don't want to interrupt too much. No, please. I get, I really want to get into just the work you're doing now and, and how it's impacting especially small towns, right? Because that's who listens to our show. Um, but I also, I think that that's another really big piece of this. Like, I've often, people have asked me like, why were you put on the earth? Which, what a huge question, right? And I said, why? I think I'm on the earth to encourage people to steward their gifts as well. Okay. Like, I, I love, I love seeing things in people and being able to honor those things in people. Sometimes it's a surprise to them, sometimes it's validation to them. But I think that's a huge— it's a huge thing. And it's, it's partly because we grew up in a different time where, um, success— and there's air quotes around that for our listeners because you can't— you can see me, they can't— um, success was much more narrowly defined.

Right.

And I don't think that's the case anymore. I mean, my goodness, because you— like, we live in a world now where, like, virtually anything you dream up could become a path to success because not only is all those things available, but you totally get to decide what success looks like. I mean, when I say fully functioning adult, like, going back to that, like, you have to be able to, you know, pay taxes that you owe. And take care of your bills. And there's a little bit of responsibility that comes with being an adult, right? But how it looks and what you do and why you do it even, it is all open for interpretation and for personal discovery. And I think that almost might overwhelm some people more than having 3 choices. Yes. So it's kind of interesting. Because I too felt like I had to do things a very certain way. And then at some point I was like, but none of this feels quite right for me. So my journey is probably somewhat similar to yours where I think there are some people now that would just love someone to say, here's how to be successful, do these 3 things and you're going to nail it. So it's kind of crazy, right? So I think that all of that, Christie, is simply to say, I don't think the world as it is is catering to anybody.

Absolutely not.

So we have to, we have to say, okay, it's not going to get handed to me. And you've got to figure out how you learn, how you grow, what you need, what you're good at, who you need to be supported by. And that takes effort, but that's on each individual person to figure out, right?

Yes, yes. And it's, but it's also on, I feel like, um, okay, we're just jumping But being a leader, being somebody who has been a leader in my community in different organizations, I now am in a place where I'm finding I am getting a little tired and burnt out from doing all the things, from doing the events, from serving on all the boards. So now I see a role, when I pick up the phone, I'm really hoping somebody isn't gonna say, "Hey Christy, would you be willing to serve on this board?" What I'm hoping for is for somebody to say, "Hey Christy, someone asked me to be on this board and I'm not really sure." how to do it. So can you help? Can you offer something?

Yeah.

Misty, we want to put on this event and we're not sure how to do it. Could you offer us some advice? I now see roles as people who have been in leadership positions for a while. I now see our role as being more of— I don't know if mentor is the right word, but just think of a caretaker.

It's a guide.

Yeah.

Yes. I mean, you know, again, not saying that we're on a mountaintop.

Oh gosh, no.

Once you've been through things— and a mentor I think is appropriate too, or an advisor or whatever. But I totally agree because at some point we'll get out of as much of the doing and then start to usher in a new generation of doers.

Yes.

And then the openness and the flexibility that we all have to have to like let go of our precious processes for how it was all done, right? Like that's a whole thing too.

Yes. Okay, so back to how I got here.

Yeah, see, I mean, we talked for what, like 15 minutes, and I was just like, I'm taking you down 10.

But this is, this is why conversation is so beautiful and fantastic, because what emerges is what it's, what is needed in the space and in the moment is what comes forward. And absolutely, our, what we sometimes feel is our rambling is something else for somebody else to, you know, it's a little golden nugget, or it's something to say, oh, Stories, stories change lives.

They do.

And maybe this is— here we go. I just set up the perfect segue and I didn't even realize it. Stories. About 5 and a half years ago, I was sitting in my house and realizing that I wasn't happy because I was trying to fit all these boxes of what success was. And I was trying to figure out what I was supposed to do and what was my passion. And I had I have a beautiful family. I have healthy children. My husband and I work hard and we have done well for ourselves. So all the perfect pieces, when people say, what does success look like? It looks like I have it.

The boxes were checked.

On the outside. Yes, the boxes were checked. But on the inside, I was still trying to find those boxes because I was begging for someone like, what is the secret formula? Because I should be happy. It looks really pretty on the outside, but on the inside, I was really struggling. And I came across a group of women, and they were sharing their stories about failure and success and struggle. And it was so eye-opening to me because I was not in a place where I was ready to share my own struggle. I still thought like that was embarrassing, and that was admitting failure and defeat if you were telling peoples of your struggle. So I listened to them and through their stories, I gained enough courage to start being honest with myself first about what mine were. That was a big hurdle, just even willing to be honest. And that allowed me then to start sharing my story. It allowed me to become more aware of myself and what I was doing and where I was causing stress and overwhelm in my own life. And so for the last 5 years, this has been my journey. And it has been through coming into awareness of myself, or really willing to kind of dig in and get my hands dirty with where I wasn't happy and why and what my role was in those things. And through that, I, I had different professional jobs while doing this work. The last work I did as an employee was for the— our, our local hospital. I was the foundation director. And I really, really loved that position. And through those experiences, and then COVID came, and I was able to work from home. And it was at that point where I realized that as much as I love the work that I'm doing, because I'm here to help and serve people. There's just, in so many ways, it looks like that. And it always comes down to that. And it brings me so much joy. To know that any little piece that I could have supported somebody in, and then they were able to take that and go with it. That brings me so much joy. And I realized in that point, in that moment, that I was giving so much of the best of myself to an organization. And I— it was at that point where I realized I'm ready to take the best of me and give it to myself and my family. Because they always got what was left of me, and then I got what was left of that. And in order to really, you know, going through this process— this, and this took almost— well, this took about 4 years for me to really go through this process and be able to identify that. And I, along the way, had had coaches myself. I had been working with a Life in Alignment coach, and it dawned on me that this was the work I was meant to do. And I was really scared because saying you're a life coach did not fit many boxes that I looked at as success. Right.

Let's, let's stop there for one quick second. So just for the listeners' reference, how big is the town that you're living in?

I live in a town of about 4,500 people.

Okay. So how many life coaches, you know, are in that community?

Zero.

Right. And it also tends to be a phrase that with certain groups and certain people and just certain responses, it immediately triggers eye rolling.

Yes.

And that kind of like, oh, how ridiculous kind of a thing.

Yes.

So how did you move through that? Because I think, again, everybody that listens to these episodes, they come to our show for different reasons. I try to highlight— we try to highlight the, the people that are doing things that are— it's not necessarily that it's audacious and out there, but it's— if there's some— there is some audacity, because if you're in a small town at all and you're doing anything that's out of mainstream, like life coaching is definitely out of mainstream for, for a small community, and you still live there and your kids are still part of that town, and it's like, I love highlighting people that are out of the mainstream for that reason, because it can still, even for someone like me, even for a lot of the people that I love and care about, can still be very, very lonely. So then there's just a ton of work that we have to do to live our fullest selves. And I say it all the time, like, it's my cliché that you don't have to— your zip code doesn't determine the size of your life. I fully, fully believe that. But you've got to be real about what you're going to have to do to support yourself, right?

Yes. Yes.

So can you, can you talk a little bit about that? So you, you know, you realize, and I love that it was kind of like that realization over time, like, this might be the work I'm supposed to do. How did you transition that into actually doing that, and what does your work look like now?

Yeah, it was a huge, huge transition, and one that I, you know, it took me let's just— we're laying it all on the table here. After I resigned from my position, I would say it took me over a year to recalibrate to what, what that really meant. Because living in a small town and being the director of the hospital foundation, I was very public. I was very out there in public. I was the two— my name and that, that position were together. When you thought of the foundation, you thought of me. When you saw me, you saw the foundation.

Right.

They were so connected. And I didn't realize upon resigning how much of my identity was wrapped up in that. I knew it intellectually. I knew it. But I always— I'm referencing like, I know it in my head, pointing to my head. But there's a difference between knowing it in your head and then moving that knowing to your heart.

Right.

Right. And living it out loud.

Yeah.

So for a year, I would say that I just got really quiet. I had to do a lot of self-reflecting. Because now suddenly I was going out and about. And it's not that people treated me different. That wasn't it. It was more of an internal conversation with myself of where is my value and where do people see me now and do I care and what does it mean?

Yeah, I think that's so, so important. And I love the word recalibration, by the way. And I'm going to say this without knowing, so it's going to sound like an assumption. What I always want to be careful of when we're talking again to kind of a broad audience, we have no idea who's listening, that there's a luxury that came with your ability to do that.

Absolutely.

So I don't mean that you're privileged or anything like that, but I had a very similar experience where it was like I realized that I was becoming less and less and less of who I was actually meant to be in the job that I had. Yes. And so to have that conversation with my spouse was like, and hard. Yeah, I make really good money, honey, but I don't think— I think if I stay, if I keep doing this, I'm going to become less of the woman you actually love.

Yes.

You know, and that, that kind of thing, right? So you have all of that at home, but being able to even financially do it, like, yes. Did you, did you have other work? Was there anything else? And again, you don't have to get into the details, but I think it's just a lot of times people be like, what if I feel like I'm in a soul-sucking job and I can't afford to just quit it? Was there in that year recalibration? Were you working? Were you doing anything or were you just really trying to figure out what came next?

So I am in a— I will even use the word privileged situation. My husband and I own two other businesses and so he runs one of them mainly on his own and does that. And then we have a business that we work together. Okay. And so the second business had gotten to a point where it had replaced the income I had. So we were able to build up a nice little chunk of money. And it wasn't that that's what we wanted to burn through, but we knew that it had replaced my income so that we wouldn't have to really alter our lifestyles. There was some altering, right? There was, okay, let's go through all the subscriptions and tick off the $15 here and the $20 here.

I did the exact same thing. And again, I didn't have to, like, wholesale changed my lifestyle. Like, I didn't need to sell my house, right? Didn't need to sell a car, right? But there was a lot of things that I chose to let go of. Yes, yes, same deal. And by the way, I just— for you and for your, your validation, which you don't probably need my validation, it's simply an acknowledgement that hard work is the only way you build a business up to where it replaces income. So while you can say it's privileged, if you both built that up that is just grit and hard work.

Yes, absolutely.

Then again, it's not— hey, I don't love talking about privilege or lack of privilege. I guess I just— but it's true. People that listen, right? They're like, oh my gosh, I want to do that. How do I do that?

Yes. I work with clients, and that is a conversation. And some of them are in soul-sucking jobs, and healthcare is a huge piece of it, and they stay for that part of it. So then it's a matter of, okay, knowing that you're making this choice, now we need— if that's where you feel like you have to be, then now let's find the other ways that we can support you so that you can continue to show up and do what you have to do to, to make it through. Now, when I did quit, one thing I know about myself is that I'm a very social person, and I, uh, interaction with people and the exchange of energy fuels me. And so sitting and working from home was very quickly realizing that was not going to be the best thing for me. So I actually started subbing at the school. And I did it— I did it because a teacher said, "We're so desperate, would you ever consider?" So I thought, you know, sure, I could do that 1 or 2 days a week and that would get me out and about. My kids are of ages— I have a 5th grader, an 8th grader, and a junior. So getting to know their friends in different ways, getting to just kind of be there and check in on my own kids and hear things. And it was a really, really fun opportunity. And I, I have so enjoyed that experience. That's a part of the work that I didn't know, that what I didn't know, and how much kids feel me and how much I love. And here's the other beautiful part: I am in no way a teacher. I will never take that. Teachers are a special group of people, and I don't have that skill set.

Amen.

But what I can do is go into that school and I tell kids, listen, this doesn't have to be hard. I'm here to basically keep you in a space and keep you alive. And we work through what the teacher has set out. That's our job here. And I— but I get to connect with kids in ways that maybe teachers— teachers don't have the time to do that, right? Teachers have so much other things on their plate, and they do connect with kids. I'm not saying that. But it gives me an opportunity to really engage with them in different ways. And I get to enjoy them. I just get to sit and listen to them. And they are such mirrors for us, no matter if they're your own children or other people's children. Listening and sitting with kids, they turn a mirror around for you and they soften you.

Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. So, okay, so what I'm, what I'm most curious about now that we've kind of gotten to present day, I mean, right, like you're now doing coaching and consulting, you're doing this work under your own umbrella. What do you see are the biggest— because, okay, let me, let me ask a clarifying question on some of the scope of your work first. Yeah. And then I'll ask this other question. So what do you feel are some of the, um, biggest areas of concentration in your coaching and consulting that you currently do? Knowing that that can change and more.

Yes, it's different for each person. However, really the stories are like, we all have such similar stories. This work has helped me realize even more that we are all so much more alike than we are different, and we all have similar struggles and fears and doubts. Uh, the, the stories around those just look different, no matter if you come from struggle or you come from privilege, right? Like, no matter what We all come together under this umbrella of living with these fears and these doubts and these concerns. And so the scope of my work is the one-on-one coaching I do is really about— I think of myself as a bridge. I think of myself as— so right now, self-care, mindfulness, intentionality, all of these are buzzwords that are floating out there. And I feel like they're becoming another thing on people's to-do list. I should be more mindful. I should meditate. I should do yoga. I should, should, should, should, should. I find myself in a role of being a bridge between I know, but I'm not yet doing. Why can I not get myself to do? Where we see failure in ourselves, I see opportunity because change isn't always easy. One of the best examples and one of the things I talk about in my presentations and workshops is, you know, when we want to change something about ourselves, we have 6,000 to 7,000 thoughts a day. And there's different research on this, but the most recent research, 6,000 to 7,000 thoughts a day, 90% of those thoughts are the exact same that we had yesterday. So we can begin now to see, knowing that information, and Joe Dispenza has— is where I pull most of my information from. He's an amazing, amazing, uh, person, and the work that he does is incredible.

So just for everybody listening, we will link to his website. Is there any specific callouts you want to make for specific books or specific anything? Or if we just do a general website link, are we going to be good?

Yeah, I think general website link and then take a look at his books. He has a number of them. He's someone I was introduced to at the very beginning of my journey, and so I've read different information from him. And go back and look at some of his old work too. A lot of his new work is on meditation. So if that is not your thing, go back and look at his old books. So he— 90% of our thoughts are the same as the day before. This, I think, helps set up a framework of understanding how we create habits. Because if we're thinking 90% of the same thoughts day after day after day, of course, naturally, our patterns and behaviors and habits are going to be formed from them. And if we are not being intentional and inserting things that we want in our life, things that we don't necessarily want tend to creep in and they stay there. So change, trying to figure out how to make that change that we feel shouldn't be that hard, it really is. There's a lot more factors coming in than just making the decision, just willpower. Willpower is not going to get you through the hard stuff. And so what I tell people is change is, it can be like this. Tonight when you go to bed, like brushing your teeth is something you do on autopilot because again, for 6 to 7,000 thoughts a day, we are not conscious and present for all of those thoughts. We just do them. Brushing our teeth is one of them. So tonight when you go to bed, brush your teeth with the other hand. And that gives you an idea of what change is going to feel like. You can do it, but man, does it take a lot more, uh, thought process. You have to really think through the steps. It feels uncomfortable. Your brain is telling you the entire time, just switch hands, it's so much easier. You know how to do it the other way, just do it that way. Why are you making this so hard for yourself? Again, we can brush our teeth with the other hand, but all of those thoughts That's exactly what happens when we're trying to create change. And this is why change can be and feel so hard, because we're entering territory we don't know.

Right.

So our brain is wired to keep us safe and protect us.

So, okay, love all of this and totally ascribe to all of this. So then here's my follow-up question. Now that I kind of get yours. So you really are about mostly individuals, or do you work with groups?

I'm working more and more with groups. The work I've been doing, I've been doing presentations for the last year and a half on stress and burnout. And yeah, it has been, uh, I am falling. And what's really funny too is when I started my work 5 years ago, I've had a full circle moment recently in that my work came, I sought out a coach because I was so stressed and I was burnt out and I was overwhelmed and I just wanted to feel some peace. And so for 5 years As I'm trying, you know, in the last especially 3, when I've been trying to figure out what can I create as a business for myself, I never considered stress and burnout. And now this is primarily the work that I'm doing. So again, what is your own experience? What are you good at? What do you feel, um, brings you some joy? Uh, and now this full circle moment has come, and stress and burnout is what I'm having conversations about, and what I'm really hearing Most of my talks and presentations and workshops have been with educators and community leaders, and what I'm hearing from people is that they feel more stressed today than they ever have before. Like, and they— and the hard part about this is they don't quite know why. They don't know what has changed in their life that has brought on the stress and this burnout. And so that leads us to feel hopeless, a little bit hopeless, like, because you can't grab on to anything, you can't name it, right? And so that has been a large part of the work I do. And then through the workshops, I actually lead people through, you know, we kind of enter in some stress, we enter that so we feel it, and then bring people out of it by doing, you know, a body scan or a small meditation. And helping them, helping their body physically relax in that moment so they can actually feel that it is happening and can feel the difference. And when people finally feel that difference, it's like a light bulb has gone back off, like this remembering that, oh my gosh, I can feel something other than stress and burnout. And these have— this has been so prevalent and so eye-opening for me that it makes me know that this is the work. And I need to keep speaking. I need to keep talking because so many people are living under this. I don't even think we realize how much stress we have put ourselves on, how much we're putting on our shoulders, because again, we're good Midwesterners too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

And we keep piling it on. And then when someone gives us permission to set it to the side for a minute, and you can breathe, that's when we realize, wow, what have I done and how did I get here?

What I think is really interesting about this too, Christie, is here in Oaks, we are blessed with a number of holistic practitioners. So we have some that work with energy. We've got a couple of functional med doctors that just take a really holistic approach to the way they care for their patients. And that's the thing. And so what I wanted to ask you is just in your experience, how is this affecting communities? Okay, so that's the question. But I just want to share what my friend and I talk about all the time. So she's my chiropractor. She's one of my dear friends. And we talk about the fact that we both feel— and she more from an actual medical standpoint. I'm just an observer. I feel like that's what I do is I just observe things., and I definitely make connections to what I think is going on. But overall, I feel like a lot of us have no idea what feeling good actually feels like. So because she and I talk all the time about how emotions, when on— because emotions, even if you don't allow yourself to express them, they still show up. Like, the body. The body. My therapist, actually, and I haven't read this book, I'm going to quote it here again. I shouldn't quote a book I haven't read, but my therapist— everybody on this podcast knows my therapist, or at least of her.

And she's fantastic.

There's a book called The Body Keeps the Score.

Yes. Yes.

Have you read it? I've not read it. Okay, so we'll throw that in the show notes. But that's this really clear understanding that our bodies are not just some detached vessel. No, we are completely in our body, of our body, mind, heart, soul, all of it, the chakras and the energy and just where stuff sits. And then it manifests in pains and aches and illnesses. And I truly do believe all of that. But for you, I think talking about stress and burnout, most people have no idea what an awareness of that even looks like. Yes. So like you said, you didn't realize that what you were experiencing extreme stress and burnout. And now to be able to help people so that you also talked about the difference between knowing and knowing, knowing. I think knowing in the head is just awareness.

Yes.

But a lot of us aren't even there. Right. There's not even awareness. And then there's the knowing it fully where you actually embody it. Right. Anyway, I find all of this so interesting. So my direct question to you, and you can speak to anything I just shared, that's totally fine. Um, but how is this— how is this impacting small towns?

It's impacting small towns, first of all, because we're not aware of it. We aren't— don't have it. So I see it in— so I also serve on, uh, I'm the chairperson for our economic development committee in our town, and, uh, fantastic. I have been involved— I grew up in a household involved in community. So it's something I've seen my entire life and that I'm a part of. How it typically plays out is everyone, especially women, trying to be Superwoman and constantly comparing ourselves to other people. And I went through this too. We don't feel like we have time to figure it out because we have to keep moving, we have to keep going. And so one thing that I really— and I remind clients continually because it's something I think we need to hear over and over and over before we actually will do it— is when you feel like you're falling behind and you need to run faster, that is my very first indication that I need to just stop and I need to stand still for a minute and catch my breath. Because think about this, how many of us have lived this way for a long time? When it feels heavy, when things get hard, we buckle down and we run. We, we— because when we get here, I'm doing the air quotes, when we get here, wherever here is, then it'll be better. But we never really define what here is. And when you get to here, it's never over. There's always a continuation. So my rule of thumb is when I feel that, you need to stop. You need to stop and catch your breath. And you need to allow yourself— you know, our mind and our bodies, as you were talking about before, are so connected. And our bodies and our minds, a little bit separately, store emotions. They catalog this stuff away. So as much as we think we're ignoring it or pushing it away, our mind has now created a, you know, there's neurotransmitters making connections in our brain, and it has now filed away, oh, when we feel this way, this is what happens. We may not enjoy it, we may not like that experience that happened, but now our body knows, okay, this is how we feel, we know that, now we'll feel safe the next time it happens. We still don't like it, but we know it now, so we feel safe. And when we're running on autopilot so often, so much of our days, and we're living in stress so much of our days, uh, there's, there's no time for us to break those connections in our brain because we're just protecting ourselves, right? So this is what I see a lot in leaders, especially in small communities, because we wear many, many hats, right? We wear many hats. And one thing, it sounds a little cheesy, but honestly, I think the hat we often forget to wear is our own, is who we are. And I think it's because we don't know what that hat even looks like anymore because we've combined it with so many others.

Well, like, so it's interesting. I'm speaking at an event here this weekend, just in a couple of days, to a group of women. And I've often used that metaphor of hats, right? And it's it's really the question of what would you look like if you weren't wearing a hat at all? Yeah. You know, because underneath every single role that we play, and especially, especially women— again, men, men have— I think this presents differently in men. Yes. So, so I'm not— it's not in any way saying men don't do a lot because they do. It's just, it's just different. But for women, we tend to tie our worth— and men definitely do this too— we tie our worth to the hat that we're wearing, to, you know, our entire validation, our entire self-worth is connected to whatever that hat is, whichever one we think is the snazziest, fanciest hat, right?

Or other people want to see.

Exactly. The one that you put on and everyone says, oh my gosh, look at you in that hat, right? And that's your role. So if you revel in being a mom, you revel in being a wife, you revel in being a community person, you revel in being a teacher, you revel in your profession, you revel in pick a thing, right? The danger of tying our entire identity to any one role is that roles are by their very nature temporary.

Yes, right?

Like, even motherhood, it's forever, but like, seasons change, and my children are on loan from God. I know that. And so if something were to happen to one of them, I mean, God forbid, but it, it happens. So I— we still have to— we still have to commit some of our life to nurturing our own person.

Yes.

And I know I— it's like you almost can't say that without sounding, I don't know, selfish or flippant or something. But I just think— I just think it's so important. And I've seen so many people that I love so much.

We'll make—

we'll take something much less tragic than losing a child, because I do think motherhood because they're actually physically a part of us. Like, that's a whole different thing. It's not just a hat.

No, right?

A little more than just a hat. Let's just take rules and make it less about those deep, deep things. But like, I had a friend that lost her entire business. She actually got canceled. I watched, and I live in North Dakota. This is a friend of mine that's not here, but it was an incredibly traumatic thing to watch happen to somebody I care about. I can't even express it. But her entire worth, like everything she thought she meant, was connected to that business that she ran. And it was immediately stripped away from her within 24 hours of making a mistake. Let me just say, like, legitimately got canceled, like in the most clear way a person can. And I remember just saying to her, that was never all you are. You know, and I think so. I love this conversation so much, Christy, because it gets— it's a little woo, but not super woo to me. And again, I don't even care. I like— I actually like the woo. Like, I think there's so much that we don't understand about how beautifully and wonderfully we were created that I think the more we can try to tap into that, the better we are off we are. But I think about this with small communities, and I think about the fact that if we're sitting in a room full of people and we're all like, most of us are repressing a lot of stuff in a lot of ways. We're not aware of it. Then we show up and we're passive-aggressive. I think that's, that's what I see as kind of the go-to mode of communication among people that are not connected to themselves. It's passive-aggressive.

And then they throw anger in there too. There's anger within all of that, right?

And then they do the, they do the real conversation behind your back.

Yes.

And it's not because they're gossipy, awful people. It's just that they've never given themselves permission.

Yeah. You're compensating.

Yes.

You're compensating for what you feel lack for in yourself or what you feel anger for. It's so easy to project that and put it on other people. Another big indicator for me when I need to stop and just get quiet with myself and listen to what's going on in my head is when I want to blame someone else. For something I'm frustrated with, right? You know, as a leader, and I feel grateful because I've always lived this life of just being a really curious human being. I— and that's why when you said it, let we have organic conversations on this podcast, perfect, because I'm not— I get nervous when things are scripted and when I'm supposed to perform.

That's—

it feels like a performance.

Yes.

So showing up and having conversations has been easy for me because I'm naturally curious and I ask questions. Now sometimes that comes across as people feeling I'm trying to get at something else.

Praying?

Yes, yes. Yeah, and I just think part of this also is deciding for ourselves what our own integrity is and what that means to us, and then finding ways to live in that. One of the things, you know, another buzzword right now is boundaries. Set boundaries. This is a really fine line. And something that I talk about with groups is when, when you set boundaries, work on setting them for yourself first and not against or for other people. Because when you're setting a boundary for someone else, there's a lot of ickiness around that. There's a lot of— there's, there's passive aggressiveness in that. There's anger and fear in that. Begin to set them for yourself. So one of the things when I think about for myself, self-created stress, one of the biggest things is something you just said, and it's gossip. Not even feeling like I was being gossipy. I was asking questions. But when I would leave conversations and feel a little bit icky inside, being like, oh, I wish I wouldn't have said that, or why did I say that? Why did I agree with them? I don't agree with them. When I would walk away and feel those things, that was it. When I began to be aware and honest about it, and not try to justify it, right? If you're justifying it, you're, you're still in a space of protection or, or blaming the people that started it, started the conversation, right?

Yes. Yeah, that's, that's also just a like, this feels crappy, somebody else must have to be responsible.

Somebody else did it.

Yes.

Yes. Because I did it. So recognizing when I felt crappy, um, and so one of the boundaries I set for myself, and I didn't have to tell anybody else, is when I was in a conversation and it started veering there, like, once I became aware, the next thing is you feel this stuff in your body before your mind— it registers in your mind. So beginning to become aware of where you feel stress or where you feel fear is so helpful because I would start feeling it. My heart would start pounding a little bit more. I would get a little bit like— I could feel my body getting anxious, so I would get antsy. When I started to become aware of that and then began to recognize it, in myself, I would ask myself a question. This question is truly kind of the baseline to what helped me change. And it's so simple. It's not always easy, but it breaks it down. And when I was in my world of feeling overwhelmed and stressed, I just wanted to feel peace, but I didn't know how to do that. So my Coach helped me with this, and it is identify how do you feel right now and the things you don't want. And I felt Anxious, overwhelmed, and stressed. And then she said, "What do you want?" And I said, "I want peace, but I don't even know what that looks like. I don't even know how to get there." And she said, "But you have an idea, like, of what it doesn't feel like, what peace doesn't feel like." So when things like this happen, when I'm in a conversation and I begin to feel myself getting antsy and not feeling good, I would ask myself, if I continue in this conversation in this way, Am I going to feel more of what I don't want, which is overwhelming anxiety and stress, or am I going to feel some peace? The answer always was, I'm going to feel overwhelming stress. This is going to stress me out. So what would bring me peace? What would bring me peace is either changing the conversation or just walking away. So now that I've named them, it was simple, right? Yes or no. Those were pretty simple yes or nos for me. It was not easy doing it, right? I had to make a conscious effort to try to change the conversation or to find a way to excuse myself. So this may sound silly, but I would practice in the mirror saying, oh shoot, lost track of time, I gotta go, or something's come up, I gotta go.

It's not silly at all, because if you don't practice it, then you have no habit around it. And then you will default back to what you've always done, which is stand there and silently nod even, which is still complicity. Yes.

Same thing with saying no, being able to say no.

Right.

Same concept. Practice it in the mirror. Practice saying thank you. That's not it.

But kids are good at it because they say it all the time.

Yes.

Little. They're just like, no, I don't want to do that. Absolutely not. Okay, so we're kind of coming up on the end of our time. Christy, I just want to say this. That I love this so much because I think, again, you and I right now, this whole time we've been talking about being a human. Yeah. And I do work that's very economic development related. Now, I always say that with a little bit of sadness because it's just like a whole world that I'm still struggling to know and understand and actually fully embrace. But I speak to groups about not forgetting about the people side of human. Of economic development. There's a human, human capital, social capital, cultural capital. When we, we can call those buckets and like people go, oh yeah, I know what social capital is, but it's this. It is exactly what we're talking about, like having agency over yourself. Because I think if more of us can just take radical responsibility for ourselves Yes, truly, because we don't get to control what the world hands us. We just don't get that choice. We don't get to control if other people are nice or if other people are decent. I think most of our anguish— and again, most, I mean, this is anecdotal completely, this isn't scientific, this is not research-based— but I know when I think about what leads to the most of my anguish is the expectation that things should be different.

Yes.

Or people should be different. Yes. Well, I'm not in charge of other people. I'm not in charge of the world. I'm in charge of me, of how I show up, of how I show up, how I respond, what I do with things. And by the way, I wanted to say I love what you said about boundaries, because whenever I talk to groups about setting boundaries, it's never something you have to say out loud to anybody.

Oh, right.

And boundaries let us love people better.

Yeah, they allow us to love ourselves better. And when, when we truly— I mean, I can sum up what my work is in this sentence. Is it's, again, this is something that scares people and not a lot of people want to maybe go there, and it's cliché, but this is really about finding a way to enjoy and like and eventually love ourselves, right? This is what we're stripping down to. And if we can show up that way I spoke with a leadership group recently, and one of the things they asked me is, how did you get to where you are? How did you go through all these steps? Like, what— again, we want the checkboxes, the formula. And I said to them, honestly, when I was, when I was at the Foundation, I had no fundraising, professional fundraising experience. I had, you know, we fundraising all the groups that were in, but I was not a fundraiser. I didn't— I knew nothing about that role of the job, and I was extremely successful at it. I was not successful because I knew the moving parts. I was successful because of what you said, of using the social capital, having a genuine interest in people, and creating connection. That's why I was successful, and I believe that's why leaders are successful. You can push and you can pull your agenda along and you can get there, but you know, what wake did you create in that process? And when you show up genuinely to create connection with people, people follow people, right? And they may follow you because you're strong and big and you have a loud voice, and that's fine. There's, there's no judgment on any of this. This is how it is. That role never fit me. It wasn't the role for me, right? So I found my role in connections and, and being a little bit more vulnerable, sometimes being the crazy person at the table, the person people look at and like, what is she talking about? Or no, that's— we don't think that way. Um, but knowing that at least I knew where I was coming from was genuine. I wasn't showing up with an agenda necessarily. I wasn't showing up, um, out of fear or doubt. Because I did so much work on myself, I could show up as my genuine self. And if people didn't like what I offered, it still hurt. I'm not saying like, oh, I can dust this and brush it off and move along. Yeah, it still hurts.

Yeah.

But I could then again go back to the work I knew, get myself sorted out, so then I could still move forward for my community. Because in the end, we all want to— we, most of us are still working towards the same goal. We just kind of disagree or look differently at how to go about it, right? And when you can remove a little piece of that ego, that part of you saying, if they don't listen to me, they must not like me— if you can begin to just silence it a little bit, quiet it a little bit, you can, you can begin to show up in a way, and people are going to recognize that. People are going to see that. And I believe that's what makes strong leaders.

I do too. I, I have, um, thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. So if our listeners want to learn more about working directly with you, where should they go?

Yes, so I have a, um, social, you know, social media. We have Facebook, uh, Christy Berger Jelinek, uh, Coaching and Consulting. I have an Instagram page and then a website as well, christybergerjelinek.com.

Perfect. And we'll get that all in the show notes. So it's perfect and it's available. But I guess from one lifelong learner to another, let me just say that the work that you're doing really, really matters. I started Growing Small Towns with this kind of an intention. Growing Small Towns isn't just about the growth, is about us. It's about the people that already live here. The people that will one day live here. And I think that this kind of work, to me, it is the work of life. It's the work of the planet. It's the reason I exist. So it's been really fun to talk with you. And I think your community is very fortunate to have your presence at the table of economic development because I don't— it's hard work. Economic development is challenging work. It's kind of the again, that public thing where you never feel like you're making anybody happy.

Yes.

Um, and you get— you often get strong personalities and, uh, competing priorities. And, you know, there's a lot of conflicts that can come at around a table, um, in an economic development boardroom. Yes. Um, so having your, your calm, your— not just zen, because it's not just being calm, it's about having a presence of mind, a mindfulness, and an intentionality. What a lucky group of people they are.

Well, thank you so much. I receive that, right? This is another thing that I've been practicing is receiving those compliments.

Yeah, everybody listening to that, put that one in your back pocket because we do all need to get better at receiving the beauty that's thrown our way because it's always given with love. So we should receive it with love too.

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Thank you, thank you, thank you seriously so much. Um, we're gonna find a way to get you down to my community.

Oh, I would love that. For sure. Absolutely love that.

It's happening.

This is— this again is the work that I'm here to do now, and I fully can see that and step into it and say it out loud. Because as beginning of our conversation, these aren't— these are, uh, People refer to this often as soft skills, right?

Absolutely, they do.

Yeah, they're not the super important ones, we'll figure that out later. And I think we're in a space in our world in general that, man, if this isn't showing us today more than ever that these soft skills are, are the skills, they're survival skills. They are. And we're going to survive one way or the other.

So driving skills is what—

yes, yes, yes. Well, thank you so much, Rebecca. I Love the work that, you know, in giving this back to you, love the work that you're doing. These are such important conversations because again, we are all so much more alike than we are different. And when we can connect through stories and understanding and be able to say, oh, somebody else, me too, oh my gosh, those are the small steps we can take in our awareness and in our change. So thank you.

Thank you. Come on back sometime soon, okay?

I would love to. Absolutely.