Moments of Growth: Arts + Culture

Friends, the upcoming Moments of Growth episode that you're about to hear is all related to art and culture. This is a key— has been a key part of our programming for Growing Small Towns since the beginning. And, you know, people, people often ask, like, I think, I don't know, I think in small communities, art it is actually still often considered a need or a nice to have versus a need to have. Just the very idea that getting, giving more people access not only to view art, take in art, whether it's visual or performing, but also giving more people an opportunity to create art in their own way. So sometimes that might look like classes. Sometimes that might look like just trying something new, especially on the performing arts side. And I just feel so passionately as the executive director, founder of our organization, that art and culture will always be a focus and something that we try to infuse or embed into everything we do in our building here. It was actually designed with the intent to always have a showcase of art in our, in our physical space. And we don't charge anything to the artists for that. That's just something we feel really strongly is important. It can. And here's the thing too. We don't think that there's enough of a clear tie between the business community and the art community. And we think as we continue to nurture that, we will become more creative, we will become more self-expressive, and it may unlock completely new ways of doing things that none of us have ever thought of before. And if that's not something that we think, you know, matters, like if you don't think it's something that if that matters in a small town, then you're definitely not, you know, probably a person that's going to benefit from a lot of our programming because we believe in the value of anything that cracks open minds and cracks open hearts. And these artists, you can just hear it, these conversations were some of my favorite to go back to, um, because these people, they've changed me, um, as a person, and I think by extension they change our community just by being in it. So enjoy these conversations with some of our favorite artists. Welcome to the show, Amanda. So good to see you.

Yes, thanks for having me, Rebecca. It's so fun to be back after a few years.

I know, I know. And it's so much fun for me because your statement piece of art that has a special wall, um, and that we, we, you, you and I co-created. I mean, it was just that whole process of that statement piece of art I think of you fondly. We don't get to connect as much as I wish that we could, but I mean, I, I sometimes just stare at it and look at it. So it, it is such a beautiful piece of artwork and people comment on it all the time. So it's super fun. It's super fun to have you back.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I'm glad to hear you're not sick of it yet.

It's still hanging there after 3 years or so and, and you still love it. So that is a good thing. That's success.

Yeah, I for sure. So, um, for, from your perspective, we did a few things together when we kind of were first kicking off and rehabbing this building. Um, and as an artist yourself, um, what do you feel like is the value either of Growing Small Towns as an organization or what, what your experience with our, our organization has felt like?

Yes. Well, I was kind of just starting out with my art business, Heartstrings Art Studio. I believe it was 2020. When all of this was happening, and you were just finishing up a very large remodel of your facility that's going to be 100 years old. It was your grandparents. They owned it previously, so really fun. And I was just really excited to connect with you. It was— it happened by a chance encounter, but after that happened, you were really the first experience that I had. As a vendor or a tradesman, I guess, an artist doing an exhibit in your space. And so I got to do my first solo exhibition, an art show, and visit with the wonderful people of Oakes about the community impact really that your organization was having at the time. And so that was, that was really great. That was fun. And it really kicked off my whole career as an artist, honestly. And do you know that I don't know that I knew that?

I don't know that I knew that this was your first one.

Yes.

I don't think I knew that. How do I, how do I, how did I not know that? What the heck?

So it was a wonderful experience and after that it just continued to grow and bloom. But yes, you were the very first experience and I was super nervous too. So I'm glad that I must have hit it well.

Well, let me, let me just say that from a, from an, you know, like an actual exhibit perspective where you had, so it wasn't just that people were there to view your art, you were actually selling your art. Right. So, you know, and that was, that was really fun, really special. Your art is very accessible, which I— and so what I mean by that, and I say this with like, it's, it's beautiful because I think you actually sold a few pieces, you know, because people, people relate to your art. You know, I, and I was able to gift one of your drawings to a dear friend. Like, there's, there's so many things about the way you approach your art that just made you a beautiful fit for us. And I had— I didn't actually know that until just now. So I think that's, that makes it even special to me because the fact that you're now doing art for your full-time job, I mean, you know, and you have— obviously, we were just talking before we hit record about your family. You've got little, little kids, brand new baby. So as much full-time air quotes as we can say. But this, this is all you do now for, for a living. And that's, and that's just 3 quick years, Amanda.

That's—

yeah, it's so impressive.

It's been, it's been a very unexpected ride and a roller coaster, but I wouldn't have it any other way. It is such a blessing that I get to do something that I love every day, and now I have a home studio, and so I get to work from home. And, uh, family is always something that's been my top priority, and so it really just, it made a lot of sense. I can work from home with my kids. My 3 young kids, as you were mentioning, and I can be there for them. I can take off and go to their sporting events when I need to. And it's just been a tremendous blessing to be able to do this full time. And I'm very grateful for the continued opportunities. So great.

It's, it's just, yeah, it's just so special. So from an artist's perspective, and you're also in a very small town, your town, you're actually in Leonard. That's where you— yeah, where you live.

We're rural Leonard, so we're about 2 miles out of town. But yes, that's the closest town to us.

Yep.

Yeah. And so, um, and that's like, for our audience, that's— I don't know, how big is Leonard?

It's—

oh gosh, I should probably know that, but I want to say somewhere a couple hundred, right?

Really, really small town. And Kindred is the next closest, right?

It is. And they're closer to, I want to say, like 1,500.

Okay. Yeah, that's, that's kind of what I thought. So anyway, just the only reason I can bring that up is people sometimes like that kind of frame of reference, like how small of a town are we talking about? But as an artist, what, what do you think is the value of art in and for community?

Well, I'm, I'm really glad you asked the question. That's a great question. I just want to say, in speaking to my vision for my, my art business, I do want to continue to make art accessible. That is, that is 100% one of the goals of mine. And one of the reasons behind that is As an artist, I did not have art opportunities growing up in a rural area. I'm from the Manador area, and that town is 60 people, so very, very small town, right? And I went to high school in Hankinson, but we didn't really have abundant art opportunities. I think I had one, one class offered over ITV through Oaks, where you're from, right? Um, in person, but that's wild. Yeah, so that was my only art experience. In all through high school and then very limited. I just didn't focus on that in college, but there were opportunities there in the larger, I'll say urban Fargo area. But in the rural areas, they're just, you didn't hear about art exhibits. They just didn't happen. And the opportunities for education and learning that skill just were very limited. So now I so appreciate organizations such as Growing Small Towns that bring these opportunities to our rural areas. Because it's not that the skills don't exist out there, it's just that there isn't a focus on those things in the rural communities as much as in the larger cities. So it's just really important. I think there— we have so many skilled, fantastic people out there who are artists or would like to be artists but don't have the opportunities. And they're right here in our home state. And not all of them are living in Fargo the larger urban areas. They're everywhere. They're in our rural areas, in our small towns, and bringing those people out of the woodwork is so important.

So, oh gosh, I love that so much. And I think, I think the other piece of it too is possibly just not quite a deep enough understanding of the value of art, you know, as, as a thing to study, as a thing to learn, as a thing to enjoy. Yes, because it can seem impractical. I'm just going to say that. I mean, I think, you know, when we're talking, you know, we're from— our community is largely driven by the ag, the agriculture sector. And it doesn't seem like what on earth are the ties to that? But I think the big case we're trying to make with this is that not only are there incredible opportunities to actually make a living doing art in the world we live in now, right? It's just kind of phenomenal what's available. But it also it actually makes us better employees wherever we might be working too. Or like if we're running our own business, the creativity and the open-minded and kind of nonlinear thinking that access to art and the exploration of the arts unlocks in all of us. I think that's, that's what we're trying, that's the case we're trying to make.

Yes. And it opens up that creative side of your brain just as you're seeing. And it allows you to think in a completely different way outside the box and bring that creativity to your organizations and businesses. Just, just as you're saying, right?

And that's— I, I just think it's— there's such a cool opportunity, like you said, to pull, to pull those folks out of the woodwork and then to really look at what good collaboration between kind of an artist or creative community and the business community looks like. You know, when those two things come together, amazing things can happen. And it's just, it's just— there's so much potential and so much opportunity.

Yeah.

So I love, I love that you, that you can share such a personal experience too, because your art is really exceptional, Amanda. Like, of course, we'll link to your stuff in the show notes. But to know that you didn't have, like, a really strong background in it growing up, I just think is a testament to the fact that there are people like you that have an innate gift for this. You have an innate gift, Amanda, and it's so special. So I think you're the perfect person to talk to about this. Besides the fact that we've got one of your pieces just on the wall in our building, right? You get, you get how valuable it is. And it's super important to you.

It is. I, I appreciate those kind words. That's, that's very, very sweet. And I love the words that you chose, um, gifts. I think that's really something important to focus on too. For, for the longest time, I, I used my artistic gifts in my architecture career, which is what I did for 12 years before becoming a full-time artist, but You know, it wasn't utilizing those gifts, I would say, to the greatest extent possible. For example, I was doing a lot of code studies, a lot of pushing paper. I was not always getting to be artistic at my job. And so unfortunately, a lot of my gift of being an artist, of that vision, was going untapped in a lot of ways. And I wonder how many other people out there like me are just not fully utilizing or understanding even their gifts. And I think the more that we can all lean into our own unique gifts and recognize them, the better our communities will be because those are our strengths. And when we are all utilizing the strengths that we've been given and working together, it just makes everyone better. It makes our community thrive.

100%. This is— that is my vision for our communities. I actually have described it like when I've been speaking about this other places, It's almost like imagining that lights come on, you know, like as people really come into their gifts and find a way to use them and stewarding them well. And I mean, I think so there's— I, again, from my perspective, there's a little bit of a responsibility on us as a community to make sure that we're making room for people's gifts. I think that's really important. And there's also a responsibility on the gift bearer, right, to say, like, to raise their hand and say, I'm really good at this, this, and this, or these are the things I love and these are how I feel like I can contribute. And then that matchmaking between, you know, and that it is that the coolest things happen when people are, are showing up, especially from a volunteer standpoint, right? When you're, you're showing up at the things, giving the best of yourself because there's this beautiful alignment between what is needed and what you can offer. Yes, yes. Yeah.

And what you said, um, being able to say, hey, this is my strength, this is something I'm good at, can be so hard for us as humble North Dakota natives. Like, we have a hard time with that. That's, that's just something that is ingrained in us, it seems, and we just have to get over it, dang it. And agreed, I totally agree ourselves out there. And no, I really am good at this, and that doesn't make us proud or boastful. It makes us, um, I guess opportunistic, or—

yeah, well, I think pride is it. I do. I think, I mean, I think it's good to have to be proud of, of what— especially when you recognize that, um, But I think there's also this beautiful thing that happens when, when we can confidently raise our hand and say, here's what I'm really good at. And acknowledging that it's not the same set of gifts and skills as everybody else. There's something— I think that even in and of itself is a way to make room.

Yes.

And then, you know, to say, here's what I'm great at.

What are—

what can— what's, what's your thing? Like, what do you love to do? It's just, it's a really special way to help people find their way to I mean, that's how people decide to stay in places. They find a sense of belonging that only comes from that really rich matching. Yes. And art unlocks all of this, in my opinion, that belonging, that connection.

I can't tell you how many times I have visited about a piece that I've done. My work is very Midwestern, North Dakota agriculture. Ranch-inspired, so all of those themes. And it's amazing the connection that I have found at every trade show I go to, every exhibit. I'm always visiting with people, whether they're from this area or they've visited or they've moved back, and there's always some piece that you can connect with them with. And it just— that conversation brings about new ideas, new stories, and just— it's amazing what art can do for the community.

So totally agree. Thank you so much, Amanda, for taking time to chat with us today. Thank you for sharing kind of our origin story, the fact that this beautiful piece got to be a part of our open house, and then we got to feature you shortly after we were open. It was such a special day. It was such a special night. And I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud of you for stepping into this fully like you have in this last year. And Yeah, I just, I can't wait to continue to watch you grow.

Well, likewise, and congratulations on 100 years and keep on championing art in the community. It's so important. So thank you.

Thank you. Hey, LeslieAnn, welcome to the show.

Hi, Rebecca.

Oh, it's so good to see you. Like, I love— yes, I love like that. I literally just saw you actively making art on the street in Fargo.

Is what I do.

Yeah, it's so fun. So you, my dear, um, had such a massive impact on just like the appearance of our building. Um, we were able to contract with you to do a really truly and a really important part of my vision for the building. And this like timeline that you, that you like physically visually put together, um, it's like something that everybody walks back and it's like part of the tour of the building, whether it's me or like The gals that work with me, we all talk about it. And you were here for about a week. Was it 2 weeks?

It was 2 weeks.

Yeah. Split. And you stayed here. And so I got that beautiful experience of having you be my artist in residence. And so what was that? What was that experience like for you? And it obviously was your first time in Oakes.

Yeah.

So just maybe share.

Yeah.

Just share what the whole thing was like for you.

I mean, I think I have to start just with the home that you put me up in. Before I even started painting, before I even cracked the paint cans, I was welcomed into this gorgeous historic house that used to be a hospital, right? And it's had like many different, um, embodiments and lives within the house, but just so much like rich, beautiful furniture and character and literally just feeling. So being inside of that house was inspirational and very comforting and welcoming when I was in this new place, um, about to undergo quite a challenging project. And so just the welcome I was given from you, and, and I forgot the lovely lady's name, but you know, the house host and whatnot, just immediately started me down the right path. And then, um, I was able to come in and spend 2 weeks painting quite literally half the walls in Growing Small Towns. And, um, that was also a pretty major undertaking for me. I'd never done multiple murals like that, right? I've never done a combination of different artistic styles like that. So you mentioned the timeline— that was definitely the centerpiece project, which was painting throughout a 3-hallway corridor at the back of the space a timeline of the building's history and all of the different stories and quotes that the people had shared about the building and their memories with it. And so that was really special being a part of that history myself as I'm writing the history of the building, you know, I'm out here thinking, and I'm a part of the history as well today. And it was also very— it was an honor to kind of be there at the precipice of it all for you. You know, I know you guys have so much ahead of you and the history will keep being written. And so to really insert myself in the narrative and watch as you create this beautiful space. That was really special. And then I was able to also take my, my, my traditional classic art style of abstract and put that into the entryway. And I did another pretty significant piece in the entryway for myself because I'd never taken— before that time, I'd only done murals that were on one wall. Those are really cool, but this was literally the entire wall of the entryway, including the ceiling, which now I know it would take a lot for me to paint the ceiling again because that was a lot of work. But I did want— I did want everyone that walked in the building to immediately have this like, it's like, wow moment, and this like, I'm in a space that feels different and feels hopefully inspiring and just kind of gets your brain in, in like a place of excitement or stimulation or just like general energy. And so I did the entry moment, I did the timeline, and then I also just put a fun little rock pattern on that staircase there because as an artist, I truly walk into a space, I see blank walls, and I go, that could be something, and that could be something, and that could be something. And so yeah, given, given the magnitude of the project and just like how many walls I was able to fill and the timing of it all and the welcome of the house and all of that just became a really incredible and special 2 weeks.

And well, for me, I know we should start— we should go back to our origin because James is— he'll be on this episode as well. And I also met you at Startup Brew. And when James and I talked about what that experience was like for me, you know, just, you know, and I think I had shared with him and I'll repeat it to you that, you know, at first glance you might go like, why would Why would somebody doing this thing in Oaks, why, why would they come to downtown Fargo and share their story? But it was such a warm and receptive group of people. And you and James and Hannah were all 3 artists that came down and introduced yourselves to me. And it was just, it was, there was something so magical about that because I think that's, that's a really good takeaway for artists too. Like, if you connect with somebody, right, introduce yourselves to them, because I think the truth is a lot of us need more artists in our lives. I just feel like in general, business people in particular need more artists in their lives.

And I think the takeaway is that those connections turn into projects with the right people. Sometimes they don't, and that's fine, but, but those projects don't happen without those introductions. And those introductions do turn into projects. Like you can see with all three of us, we all have worked with you and, you know, kind of put our mark and put our history into the building and in Oakes. And so, yeah, that was a really special way to get connected because that's such a Fargo thing to me is Startup Brew and like the mingling, the conversation. And I was just so captivated by your energy and your speaking. And I remember I shot my hand up right away for questions and I said, And I said, and I remember this, I said, how do you plan to honor the building's history? And then 6 months later, I'm painting the building's history on your walls. And I think the way that that full circle kind of developed is beautiful.

Yeah, you asked me that question. Great, great memory, because I kind of forgot that you were the person that asked me that question. And I said, well, I have this dream. I have this dream of collecting memories of all the people and kind of giving some, like, paying some honor to the separate lives that this building has lived. And that was all I had figured out. I knew what I wanted it to be, but I didn't know at all how it would become visual. And you made that happen. And so I think it's also just a really— our, our friendship, our coming together, the 2 weeks you spent here, it's a really— it really illustrates the power of both, like, vision and creativity, right? Like, I had a vision, but not exactly the— I didn't creatively know what I thought it could be or should be. And I was so happy to let you do, do what made sense, what you thought would feel good. And you— there was— but, you know, just because it's interesting, you did a couple of circles and you didn't like the writing that you'd chosen. Do you remember that?

Right.

Yeah.

And then the font.

Yeah. Then I came in the next day and you were like, I'm starting this over. And you'd be doing— you'd painted them out. And I was like, hey, I was like, do your thing. And also, I think just because it bears repeating, the entire back wall is all pictures from what the Ben Franklin store would have had in it.

Oh, I did 4 murals.

You did 4 murals.

I actually forgot about that.

Yes, it is a wall.

There's a 4th mural.

Yeah, it's a wall that gives me so much life and energy. And it's really fun because most of the time, if people are of the generation that remember that store or, you know, just remember buying any of those things from like a variety store or a dime store, it delights so many people. LeslieAnn, like, people love it. And I do too. And I walk by it and through it every day, many, many, many times a day, you know? So it's—

it kind of looks like an I Spy the way it's like flat laid out, just objects.

Totally. Yeah.

Yeah.

I love it.

And I want to touch back on, um, the, the partnership between like business person and artist with like the, the vision and then the creative. Um, that was a, a, another kind of pinnacle moment for me in my art career of this client has a strong vision, they don't need the concept. A lot of people are like, I have this wall, I have no concept. And so for me it's a lot more of like trying to pull out, like, what could this be, you know? And it's really difficult to come up with a concept and the first draft of, like, what that can look like. And it's difficult in its own way to take a vision and turn that into a visual. Um, and I just really so appreciated the way we were able to work and communicate and the trust and freedom you gave me, but also the very clear, like, here's, you know, you gave me such a good place to start, and then you gave me all the trust to take it where I wanted to. And so that was really special to have this, like, it was really nice when things are delivered with such clarity. The vision for me comes so easily, you know, like, I was like, okay, timeline, you know, memories. And that was just really satisfying to have that progression, um, instead of just kind of this very passive, loosely described, like, I have a wall and I like florals, you know, it's like, okay, you know, okay. Yeah.

So you, I mean, really with this project, you got 2 of each, you know, because the, the pebble wall and then the front entry were 100% just like, they are blank walls. Here's the palettes to work with. Like, you, you and I went through kind of collaboratively picking a color palette, which was really lovely. But I was like, this, this front entry, I was like, Go abstract.

Go crazy.

Yeah, crazy. And so, yeah, you had, you had to build the concept there. You had to build the concept for the pebbles. And then the whole back two pieces were like, here's what I'm thinking.

Yeah.

And still, I just— what I love so much is that I'm so, I'm so proud of it, Leslie. Like, I'm so proud of it when people, when people come to visit, like, to just be able to say, like, it literally lays out the story to date, you know?

Yeah.

It wraps these three walls and people love that. I mean, people that love old buildings, you know, we had an open house and a lot of people from our community were able to come and look at it. And it was just, it was such a fun project. And I, I, I continue to tell people about it because I want more people to A, seek out the input of artists and B, pay them, pay them well, pay them what they're worth, you know, because it's, it is so much better. It is so much better than if I had attempted in any way to do it either on my own or, you know what I'm like, it was just so collaborative and Yeah, we're a really, really lovely person to work with, and I want the world to know that too.

Rebecca, when you said, I'm still so proud, you literally brought tears to my eyes. I don't think Zoom can see this, but that is so special because I pour my heart and soul and being into each piece, and the hope is that they last and stay and bring joy and inspiration to everyone that sees them. And as the steward and curator of space, you know, I would hope you're proud. I hope you enjoy them every single minute of it.

I do. I absolutely do. You have been, um, just—

it is—

we— I know we haven't seen each other a lot, and, you know, but I still like follow along. I've actually— I've been to a Night Bazaar, by the way. I know you again were very busy, like you announced one of the performers, and so I didn't ever really get a chance to say hi, but I want you to know that I'm like following your career. I'm watching what you're doing. I am always, always, always, always cheering you on. Right from, right from Oaks. And oh my gosh, thank you. Yeah, thank you, thank you, thank you for, you know, walking up to me. I mean, seriously, there's courage in that. And when I ended up wanting to apply for this grant, I knew exactly who I wanted to reach out to, and it was the people that had the audacity and the connection. There was alignment, right?

Yeah.

Oh yeah, came to speak. You came up to speak to me because you were actually moved or inspired or motivated or something, you know, that you felt something.

I had my phone when you were speaking and I was writing down what you were saying. I remember writing down quotes. And then when I came up to speak to you, I definitely felt that alignment.

I was like—

and you might have to bleep this, but I was like, this is a boss-ass bitch.

Oh, I'm not deleting that at all. I think like that's the takeaway, you know, for people that are listening to this. It's like, if you're ever so moved by somebody in that kind of way, at a minimum talk to them. Yeah, because those connections, you never know where they'll lead. Um, and you're just— oh, you're such a delight. Thank you so much for taking time to come and talk about this too, because yeah, we just want to celebrate all we've done, uh, since we started. And again, this beautiful building that you helped tell her history— she's 100 years old this year.

Yeah. And oh my God, I, I just want to say, whether you're in a city that is a million people or a city that is 100 people, The art that is there is going to make a difference. It's going to inspire. It's going to connect. It might connect you with someone else. It might connect you with the space, or it might connect you with another version inside yourself. And I'm so honored that I was able to come to Oakes, spread my art and my passion and energy, and then connect with you, the building, the people of Oakes and their memories, and have the entire experience with you guys. So thank you.

Thank you. Hey, James, welcome to the show, friend.

Thank you so much, Rebecca.

Oh gosh, I'm excited to see you.

Me too. When you, when you emailed me about this opportunity, I was just so excited because it feels like what you're doing is so important, not just for, for your community, but just to kind of model what's possible for communities, but also for, for us as individuals.

Oh, that's so sweet. Thank you so much. I would love for you, if you're, if you're willing, just to tell a bit of the story about like our origin story, because I think it's really special. I think like how we came to meet and then what came from there, because, um, you are an artist, um, you're making the world more beautiful through art, which is always something, a huge part of the focus of the work that we want to do is making sure that we're infusing our experiences with that because it's transformative, right? It changes people. So from your perspective, sir, where did we meet and how did that go down? And then what happened?

Well, in Fargo they've got something that happens every Wednesday, or just about every Wednesday morning, called Startup Brew. And you were invited to speak there, and it was at Island Park, and we were all on these big kind of bleachers that are made out of concrete there. And you were up at the front talking about what inspired you to start Growing Small Towns and the story of, um, of the building that— what's the name of the building again?

Well, we called her Dorothy Jane, which is my grandma's name.

I love that. It just— talking about Dorothy Jane and just kind of what inspired you to make such a big jump and take such a big leap into, um, re-envisioning what's possible in a small town. And I was there and I was listening and I'm a songwriter. I love playing with words and telling people's stories creatively. And I just thought, oh, there is definitely a song there and there's probably several, let's be real. But, you know, I thought I want to encourage this and I feel like there's this phrase that keeps on coming to mind for me. We make each other possible. When we see other people being their true authentic selves and bringing what it is they can bring into the world, we wonder, it's like, Well, what's my thing? What am I supposed to be doing? What's inside of me that needs to get out? And so afterwards, I came up to you and I said, you know, I just love the story you were telling. I'm a songwriter. And I don't know, sometimes I almost like blank out during conversations because it's just being so in the moment. But I think I volunteered. I was like, let's talk sometime because I would love to do something to help to help tell your story. And a couple— I can't remember if it was a couple months later, you reached out with a grant opportunity. And that's kind of how it started. Is all that tracking?

Yeah, 100%. 100%. And from that, there's two takeaways for our audience that I want to point out. One is the takeaway for me as the person speaking. It's that, like, there conceivably on its face, you could look at that experience and be like, well, what on earth would you being in front of a group of like a really eclectic kind of mixed bag of humans, right? Because like they're Startup Brew there. It's, and again, we'll, we'll, we'll link to all of this stuff in the show notes so people can get a sense of like what this really is. It's Emerging Prairie that puts it on. And they kind of historically gather eclectic and cool humans together. I mean, there's no doubt about it, which I kind of cool is arguable. Everybody's cool in their own right, right? But I think it was very much like, what would somebody who focuses on small towns actually gain? What do you stand to gain from putting yourself in that position? It was such a beautiful opportunity. I mean, Emma McIntyre, who— I mean, I, I've loved her from the moment I, you know, she had me at hello. That this young woman is so, so delightful. Um, there was something about just the generous and kind of loving and psychologically safe way. She asked me questions and encouraged me to, you know, to share. It was such a beautiful moment. And then I got to gather incredible humans from that, and you were one of them. So that's the one thing I think for anybody that, that, that is in that position to tell a story of impact or to share a vision, especially if you're starting, or if you're— again, like, God, we could get into all the ways this applies— but take those opportunities. And don't— I would say too, don't discount what you could possibly gain and what people can gain from you. Like, if you go in it with a generous spirit and the people that are there have a generous— they're generous, that it's beautiful when that— those— that lens when they meet each other. Second thing is for people like you, sir, um, the fact that you sat there and you felt really moved. I'm honestly going to say to our audience right now, how many times have you been somewhere and you felt that, whether it was small or big, right? You felt that moment of connection or, um, spark. And instead of doing what you did, which was come up to me and say, wow, this really impacted me, and now you and I are friends, right? So instead of doing that, we go, gosh, this person, that person's really, really cool, like, wow, that was an idea that sat with me, and we just hold it inside. So my encouragement to everybody that takes in this kind of stuff is be a James. Like, be a person that walks up and says, that meant something to me, because you never know what can come from that connection. You know, like, we— idea sharing in that, in that environment doesn't necessarily create connection. It's that next step of you coming up, introducing yourself, telling me what— telling me what landed for you, and me just being like, oh my God, this is a, this is a human that gets me.

I totally get that. And I feel like I, I can't remember where or how I ran across this just recently, but the quote was something like, "The point of information is not information, it's action." And I think, you know, you telling your story, it's just like, that's information, that's awesome, it's inspiring, but what am I going to do with it? And I think even just having Stefan saying like, "Oh, that meant something to me, that moved me," that's That's a step in that right direction. That's kind of making that, um, making that transition from information into interaction, right?

And, and action, connection, and connection, right? Because it ultimately should be about the humans. It should be about us as people. And so I love this, and that's absolutely true. It tracks for me. And since then, what's been really cool is you actually did write a custom song for our organization. Um, and then not only did you come— we had a whole event that you were a part of, right? You came down, there were other artists. We're good to hear from them in this episode too. Um, but then you were on our, on our second year's bus tour and actually sang that song to our bus riders. Um, and, and you were, and you're, you brought your entire lens of the, you know, again, people are so much more than the work they do. I can't say that enough, right? Like, it's every experience, every human experience that you've had, James, makes you who you are. And all of that gets to, gets to, gets to come and play when you come and do stuff with me because that's what I'm interested in. So you got to be a part of shaping that, the experience for, you know, the people that were on the bus with you that day. And you continued, like, I'm following you on TikTok now, I'm following you on Instagram, like I'm watching, I'm watching you continue to push yourself to grow and to shift and to change and to show up in this beautiful way. And so all of this, like the reason we can talk so openly like this about each other and about what we've meant to each other is because I had the courage to speak. You had the courage to come up to me. And those are— again, if you remember the movie We Bought a Zoo, and he's, uh, do you remember that movie?

Do you remember?

It's a tearjerker. You would love it, with Matt Damon. And Matt Damon's talking to, um, the kid in the movie who's like nervous about asking a girl out, and he's like, you just need 20 seconds of insane courage. Like, it's just 20 seconds of insane courage, right? And that's, and that's what we, we were able to demonstrate. There's so to take away from that.

Oh yeah. And honestly, as an artist, I feel like we found ourselves at this time in my life where I was trying to move towards doing more and being more and like, and showing my skill off. But I think so often we become that idea of like, oh, I'm just this person who does this. I'm just a speech therapist who does this on the side. Yeah. And I think these narratives can be so so detrimental because they just create this small box in which we're supposed to exist. And I think, as I think about like how you invited me and you wrote this grant, it gave me the opportunity to say like, what am I worth? What could I be worth? What's— and it's so funny because in the midst of all that, I mean, I was dealing with my own stuff and even for the weekend when I came out, I was a little sick and under the weather. And so I felt like, oh, I can't give— I can't be my full everything for this performance. But I'm also realizing I was in this place of like imposter syndrome and self-sabotage and like now being able to look back and kind of recognize that and say like, well, those— that's a part of my story too. And that is kind of the narrative that we are called to move past, like examine each of these things we carry and just like, well, if it's not serving us, You know, let's just put it down. Yeah, just put it down. Yeah, for sure. That's it.

Yep. Yeah, it's— that's what's so— I love that. Um, I want to, I want to reflect back to you, and I don't know if I've ever actually said this to you. Um, so it's crazy, I think about that day, right? That was just one particular day. So to separate from the bus trip, it was the first thing I had written this grant. You came and, um, and you shared some of your singing with us. It was so lovely. Um, but what I also remember very distinctly about you is you playing with my daughter. And I don't know if you remember that. Like, you were just being the kind of safe adult that my little girl was like, yep, he seems cool. And I want, you know, and I had a lot going on. I was like, you know, navigating people and stuff. But I remember watching you and just literally feeling like, again, like Yep, he's a speech language pathologist, like, for, for work, right? Which I had never had that interaction with you. So that to me was like, well, good, so he makes a living doing something, and that's fantastic, right? And then there's like, oh great, he's a songwriter, he wrote a song for our thing, right? Great, awesome. You playing with my daughter speaks to your, your, the depth of your character, like, in who you actually are. And so again, I just, I want to encourage everybody, artists especially, to, to, to raise your hand when you meet somebody that connects with something like run to them and tell them, and you just never know what beautiful thing could come from it. And then I think, you know, big picture, I just want all of our small town listener folks, like whoever is gonna be listening to this episode, find a way to infuse your world with more art. And art, art doesn't have to look like any one prescribed thing, and it shouldn't probably. It should probably be pretty messy. Yeah, you know, and just super experimental.

It's—

there's such a transformative nature of it. And I think the other thing that was really special for me is, um, it wasn't just what you created, James. Like, the song that you created is beautiful, and I— we love it so much. It's not— that's an outcome. It's who we've become by knowing you. It's special. So yeah, artists too can just make us so much cooler, you know, just by being in their presence, having them around us. And it's transformative.

Yeah. Oh, I feel that. And it's really interesting because— are you familiar with Human Design? I can't remember if we've ever talked about this.

Yes.

Yes.

Okay. But like the idea of— I mean, for those unfamiliar with Human Design, it's a— think of astrology on steroids. But part of it is this idea of we've got things in our life that are, that are conscious, like we're aware of these gifts, we're aware of these parts of ourselves. And there are parts that are unconscious that we, we can't really understand them unless we are in community. And other people. It's almost like other people need to recognize these things in us for us to see them and accept them. And so it feels like that is what's made possible by art, because I think all of a sudden that is— you're making something that's external to you, but that is also you. It's a reflection of you. And I've been going— last year I was going to an art therapist, and one of the things she said was like, our subconscious mind is just, it's always running, it's always there. But sometimes we'll create something and we won't understand why until 20 years later where we kind of decode it. And it's like that. And I was just like, so fascinated by that idea. And so it feels like art does that, but we also do that for each other when we kind of become authentic representations of all those experiences that did make us who we are. And we're trying not to hide any of that. And it's so funny because I've been— I was almost like, I wanted to surprise you. I did a recording of this song. I was going to do it ages ago. I had one, but I'm not sure. Did I send you a recording of it at all?

I don't think so.

This is ridiculous. I think that was part of the thing that I wanted to do in the grant. And I felt like, again, this, you know, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, I want to do something quality. And it's so funny because one of the lines in the song is, we let go of perfection, that mirage that leads us astray. And it just feels like that's just what I've been trying to— I'm not sure the best way to do this. Should I send it to you now and then you can play it or try to share it with you or something like that?

Yeah, send it. Send it my way. That'll be perfect. And if we can find a way to actually link it in the show notes. We'll do that so everybody can hear it. Yeah, so everybody can hear it. Yeah, James, you're so right. It's, it's interesting too what you're touching, what you're touching on. This, this, it's, it's sometimes can be kind of hard to articulate the idea that inner things, subconscious things that we maybe don't recognize overtly ourselves can be drawn out by other people. Yeah, that can be a hard thing to kind of wrap your brain around because at some, at some point it kind of feels like you don't want to need other people to validate all of that, right? Like, so there's that balance too, right? Of like self, like truly coming at, coming to a place of feeling like you're at home within yourself, um, that isn't relying on external validation. But there's something very magical about, um, what it is, by the way, um, I think at least a piece of it is it's actually about the science or psychology of mattering. Like we, we know we matter, and that's usually a function of being in community with other people, right? Because mattering also suggests that there's a sense of importance that we have, like people need us. And that, that feeling needed is a core fundamental human need. We all actually need to be needed. Otherwise we don't feel like we're important. We don't feel important. So it isn't, so again, it's, it's not And all of these things play together. And I, but I do think art, art and intentional community, like when we create community intentionally, we can generate that. And it's a magic that happens. It's an alchemy that happens when you are intentional about bringing people together.

Yeah. Oh, so one of the things I heard, I was at Startup Brew this last Wednesday and I can't remember the name of the one of the speakers, but he he was very honest about kind of the difficulty of his childhood. And one of the lyrics of the song that I wrote— the other thing that I just need to just go on a different tangent is—

You're good.

One of the things I loved about working with you is I kept on thinking like, oh, what does this song need to be? And you just put so much faith. It's just like you just make it what it needs to be. And I think the faith that you put in myself as an artist, but then also Leslie, also Scribble Lady. It's just kind of like, it was just, it was fantastic. And it felt very— there's something that's very supportive about having your arms wide open. It's like, I'm ready for whatever it needs to be. And so that's something that I really appreciated. But getting back to this previous Wednesday, this guy was talking about he grew up in a small town. It's like everybody knows everything about you. And I think the line for me in the song is, "We are growing small towns," because I think we're all the same. We are all people who need each other in community, but then we're also constantly changing and developing and trying to understand where's our place in the world. And one of the lines that kind of came to me, through this was, "We are the small towns that we grew up in, a place where all our secrets cannot hide. We might try to deny it to ourselves or lie. We might try to deny it to others or lie to ourselves, but deep down we know it all starts inside." And "It all starts inside" was a big piece of this song because it feels like what we're doing is not necessarily for the world. It's for ourselves. We're kind of healing. And then once we can be that healed version that understands ourselves better, we can show up and we can matter more because we're not doing the same superficial thing. We are being authentic and creating a larger space around us where others can embrace their authentic selves.

Right.

That's 100% it, James. I, I believe so strongly that a, that a, a strong community, whether it's a town, it's a church, it's a family, it's a whatever, you get to frame what community means to you, I guess.

Oh yeah.

It's the stronger we are, the healthier we are. The signs of that are healed and healthy people, you know, and I'm talking total holistic well-being, right? Like, yeah, it's, and the emotional, social emotional learning that's like now a core part of curriculum for schools, like public school systems. That's, that's where it's at. And I, I want our organization to continue to be a place space where we explore all of that because it matters. Yeah, it matters. I want— I— all I want for people is to— for them to realize the fullness of, of their, their own potential, like what they're here to do, what they were uniquely built to do, and then show up with that, right? It's like literally you can imagine just lights turning on. That's what I picture when I think about it, just somebody that suddenly goes, oh this is what I was made for.

Yeah.

And then if, you know, then our job as community development people is to try to help those people find a place and a way to share it so that they feel that sense of belonging and they feel that sense of contribution. Because at the end of the day, we do, we need each other. There's no way around that.

Oh, so one of the images that has come to mind over and over again for me as I think about kind of the world we're leaving, but then the world we're creating. The world that we're leaving, I think of like a theater marquee where all the lights are the exact same, you know? It's just like, okay, that's great. And I think so often our— the world that we've— that we grew up in wants to make us all the same so we can all look the same, you know? We can blink when we're supposed to blink and turn off when we're supposed to turn off.

Right.

But I think we're not— all our lights are a little bit different. And it feels like I think about like these funky light bulbs, like we go to the light bulb section of a hardware store and there's just a lot you can get. I've gotten a lot of wrong light bulbs from going to the hardware store. Yeah, I know. I know what you mean. But like, the image that comes to mind is like seeing all these bulbs against a wall, kind of like in different shapes, make different configurations. And it almost feels like once we realize we don't have to dim our lights so that we can fit into this big marquee like everybody else, we can, you know, brighten things the way that we need to and inspire other people to do the same. Like, it feels like, yeah, all of a sudden I'm like, okay, if I, if I knew my electrician stuff, I would be like, okay, this is the art, this is the art piece I'm creating. It's just finding as many light bulbs as possible, right?

And there'd be— it'd be shapes, it'd be sizes, it'd be colors. Oh yeah, I can totally— I mean, I can completely and totally picture that.

Oh, right.

That's, that's what it— that's what it— that's what it is. And that is what we're bringing into existence. And I think to, um, to kind of wrap this conversation, it's just, um, I think letting go of some of the fear, um, is, is really what, what it comes down to. But we need people to do that. We need safe safe places, psychologically safe places that we can express and that we can share and that we can be honest and open. And so that'd be my last bit of encouragement, I guess, to everybody listening to you and I have this conversation. And again, it's very winding and very weaving, but that's because we, we actually very genuinely like each other, which is so special. Thank you. I'm so happy that you're here. Um, but I think that's, that's part of it too, is just, is to make sure that you have an outlet And if you need one and don't have one, you could call me and I may be the right fit for that. Right. I just feel so strongly that we are all connected and so nobody should be suffering in any way by themselves.

Yeah. And I think when we have the courage to talk about what we're dealing with, what we're going through, we find the people that, that need to be in our lives. And so I just absolutely feel that and just want to encourage people to to reach out and be that person that you need to be, or that person that you might have needed when you were young, so that you can— so that we can, I don't know, help create a better world for ourselves and the next generation.

Absolutely. Thank you for being the kind of person that's leading the way in this work. It's so important.

Right back at you, Rebecca.

Well, hey Lauren, welcome to the show!

Hi!

Oh, I'm so happy, I'm so happy to see your face.

Yes, here I am. It's been a couple, been a couple weeks.

It's been a bit. So the last time you were here, we were across the street from our building here in Oaks checking out these large walls that you're gonna be, um, gracing our— with your art. And yeah, so I'm super excited to talk to you about like just basically what you think, um, what role you think art plays and kind of the building of community. You know that our focus is small communities, um, and we're kind of approaching this work with you in a really specific way. So yeah, like, you can kind of start wherever, sister, whatever you think.

So I could probably talk for hours on like the role art plays in anywhere, but We— the best thing about art is that it can be anything, and the best thing about your town is that you can make it into anything. So I want to make something that's like, brings everyone— like, how do I— my brain is like, now that I'm on the spot, I'm just like, oh, now I'm gonna have I'm going to get stuck in my brain.

You're good. Don't overthink this. You have a really clear idea about this, and even just the way you talked about it when we, we talked about the project that we wanted you to come to Oaks and do.

Yes, you— I want to make like a gem, like a why is this community special? And I think it's special because you've brought all these different kinds of people together and you've asked all different different kinds of perspectives on what you think would look good in this space and what would be like impactful and what would like be kind of lasting. I want to make something that is just unique, as unique as the space that it is. So like, like I was saying before, like art can be anything, your town can be anything. What makes up art and your town is you put into it. And you have all these different kinds of people that get to contribute to making your town super cool. And like, even though your town is small, it's full of really cool and really creative people that have a lot of different kinds of strengths. And when you put them all together, like, you overlay them, it kind of is like a painting. Like, all the different people is like— sometimes you don't— when you look at a piece of finished art, you don't see all the layers that are in it. But when you look at like a town, you're like, that person is this top layer and that person is the middle layer. Like, it's all— it's like a soup. It all comes together and you can taste all the different flavors and you can see all the different layers. And that's kind of why I kind of like that we did like an abstract thing, because there's so many pieces that overlay on top of each other and some go underneath and some are like like some shapes look like they're supporting other shapes. And I think, I think it's like a good metaphor for the space.

I do too. And I think, you know, what else is really cool about what you just said is that we are, our design, and again, we haven't decided on the final one yet. So what's really, what's really special about this too is that we worked with you. So as our chamber board, right? And then a group of, of women in our community that, that are like an arts club, your original sketches, like, just to tell people how this works. And these are giant murals on side walls in this little pocket park that we're developing. And so we had— we narrowed it originally, you and I, down to 9 images that we— that, you know, you and I really spent a lot of time talking about all of these things, right? We knew we wanted it to be abstract, partly because— yeah, partly because of the roughness of the texture. Of the walls that she'll be working with primarily. But then those, those two groups voted on a top three, and then we sent those to you, and then you just, you literally created over kind of overlay on the wall, right? And so we just got those back, and now the thing is that we're going to put the final three in front of the community and let the community's vote win, which is super, super exciting.

So many different layers of people who contributed to like, we'll have like, it was like you and I, and then it was that art club, and then it was the other boards, and now it's the people. Like everyone has a hand in making this thing that's gonna be there that they're gonna be proud of, right? Like I don't want to just like, here's some stranger who has like no idea about everything. I'm like, no, I want to know. I want to know.

You, you have a really cool process about you. I think like the way that you go about this is really special. Because we did— I did get that comment early on, like, why are you bringing in artists from Fargo? That was like the question. And I said, well, because this artist understands what we're, you know, what this is meant to be. And even just the way you described it. So it's also cool about all of the designs is that any single person could see their own thing in the design, you know, like sometimes this piece. Yeah. Versus— and that's why I kind of love abstract art, frankly, is because it, it can speak to people in its own way versus a super photorealistic. And sometimes, sometimes those murals are right too, just depends on where it's going and what it's— yeah, and what it's, you know, what it's for. Yeah, what it's going to honor and whatever. But in this case, it's like it gets to kind of become whatever each person decides it's going to be. And that is exactly what community is like, you know.

It's like a community can come together and be like, we want this idea, but you can do it. I don't like saying this, but like, you can skin a cat in like 80 different ways. Like, I don't know how to say that in with less of a, you know.

Yeah, I get it. Yep.

It's like, it's like clouds. It's like you can look up and one person can— it's the same exact cloud, it's still a beautiful cloud, but someone's like, I see a horse on a bike, and one person can be like, I see Santa Claus with his bag of like it can be anything. And even though I didn't grow up in like a small town in North Dakota, I grew up in a very small town in Minnesota. And so like I kind of get like all the different flavors of people. And everyone from small towns, they come from different backgrounds, whether they're like from the town or whether they're from far away or from a big city or from a completely different state. Like everyone has a perspective, and that's what makes cool is that it's— someone's gonna look at it and they're gonna be like, I think it looks like this, and this is how I feel about it. And I think that's like the beauty of doing stuff that's abstract, is that it can make you feel like one day you could be in a mood and look at it and you're like, man, this— I'm feeling like melancholy, or I'm feeling really excited, or I'm feeling really energized, or I'm feeling like kind of in my head. And that's like the importance of like public art is you can walk around anywhere and you can be in a certain headspace, and art can be like— can motivate you, or it can shock you out of that headspace.

It's, it's, it's an affirm— yeah, it can affirm a headspace too.

It can, it can be like, wow, I'm feeling energized, and that's a crazy electric blue and write your own thing, and that's making me feel a certain way.

The other thing I think too is really important is, is, and we had a, I had a, um, a gal from, uh, I'm trying to think, is Illinois, I think was where she was from. We were talking about the impact of art, um, and also knowing that you might install something that somebody in your town doesn't like. Like, there's a, there's a very good chance that there's going to be 1 out of 1,800 people, at least 1, right? That looks at, that looks at these walls and just goes, I hate that. And so I would love, as an art, from an artist's perspective, I have a perspective on this. I know what my answer would be, but what, what would you say to that, to, especially to the people, um, that are in small communities that wanna bring art, but they have that concern, like, ooh, how do we not, how do we, how do we get over that?

I'll lead with you with this. That is something that I have taken years of therapy to be okay with, is that my whole personality is that I, I— what I bring anywhere I go is I try to be authentic and open. And it— and I can't control— this is, this is, this is grace— I can't control how other people perceive me, and I can't control how other people will perceive what I make. But as long as I'm showing up authentically and am open to conversation, am open to another person's perspective, that's literally all you can do.

Like, I can—

it will eat me up. I, because I have— I'm, I'm a recovering people pleaser. I'm a recovering perfectionist. I don't know where I'm at with that one.

But I get this.

I want to be, especially in a small town. I came from a huge city to a small town, and in my brain I had so many different friends who were diverse, literally from everywhere in the world, literally because I grew up on a military base. So I was like, I'm going to be friends with everyone. I don't want anyone's opinion to be left out. I want everyone to feel heard. But I learned in this very small town, like like, not everyone's gonna be your best friend, and that's just gonna have to be okay. And if I have one person out of 1,800 that doesn't like it, I mean, that's still small enough that I can go up to Georgie and be like, Georgie, tell me what your thoughts are. Like, I want people to still feel heard. What I have to do is like have grace. Uh, that is another thing that's taken me a long time to have, is like, especially in the maker world where you make something with your own hands, you think it with your brain and you make it with your hands. It's so personal, even though it's gone. It's like a child sometimes.

It's like you made the thing and now it's out there to be received.

So I just have to, I have to have grace with that. I have to just be open to like, I want to know, I'm very much, I ask why all the time.

And that's another something.

I won't always get the answer to why, and I— even though I want to, sometimes I'll just have to have grace, and then maybe I'll never know why. But I'd like to know why.

But yes, well, from my perspective, I'll just tell you, as a person that has to like pull people together like this, and because here, here's— here would be my answer to anybody that is like wrestling with this in their, in their community, and they're thinking like, we want to do something, but we just don't want— we don't want to deal with all the opinion. I think the broader conversation truly needs to be that we want everybody's desires, wants, and wishes to find a home in this community. And so while this particular installation might not be for you, what is it that you want to see? And where might we be able to do that?

You know, it opens the conversation.

It does. 100% understanding that art is subjective. And so as long as we're not— I think the organizers that pull these kinds of projects together, especially if they're grant funded or whatever, we need to make sure that they're not objectively offensive.

Right?

Like, there's certain things like certain rules we have to meet. But outside of that, it is really saying, but we want to make room. And art is a way to make room.

Yes.

And so sometimes it's just saying like, but appreciate— let's— so maybe you don't care for the art, but what can we appreciate about it? What can we appreciate? Colors, right? Is there something—

it looks better than the weird gray and the pink, like it looks better than it did before, right?

That, that's— those are the kinds of things I think it does. It opens up, and that's a way— like, art is a catalyst for imagination, right? For open-mindedness, for creativity. Like, it can foster cool conversation.

It like opens a door and it leads to like any possibility.

Right, right. Well, Lauren, thank you so much for taking the time today to come and just share your perspective. This is a huge project and you, you haven't officially started like getting paint on the walls yet, but it's going to be so much fun. Of course we will. We will celebrate it wildly, wildly once it's all like But it's your entire way of being is, has been very appreciated, not just by me, but by the board members that you got to meet. And so caring that much there, I will tell you this, as a recovering people pleaser and perfectionist myself, I will tell you that like, if somehow we could cut that empathy out, the part that hurts our feelings, yeah, it would cut out the beauty of empathy too. And so, um, you, you are the way you are because it's exactly how you're meant to be. And so yeah, that sometimes means that our hearts can get bruised and wounded a little bit. Um, but just remember that on the, on the plus side of it, it makes you, it makes you so fun to work with. And it feels like you understand the assignments. Do you know what I mean? This doesn't feel at all like an ego trip for you. No, you understand that you're a vessel.

I only want it to look exactly like I want to, because that's how I— I mean, there in some projects there's at least 1 or 2% where I'm like, no, I really would like this color here. Yeah, right, not the whole percent, you know, there's a little bit of artistry going there. But yes, like, I— it's the whole part about this is a collaboration, like, right, your town, it's your walls, it's your space. That everyone's going to be utilizing. Like, of course, yeah, it's everybody's. It's not just me, just because I'm doing the brain power and the muscle power. Like, it's, it's everyone has a contribution in it.

And you've been amazing. And we're just— we'll have to do a follow-up when you get that baby done, and then we can talk about what the process actually felt like. But so far it's been incredible. Um, and thank you, thank you so much for being our partner. Thank you for coming on the show. You're the best.

Yes, thank you for having me. I'm so excited for this.