Moments of Growth: Funders + Partners

This episode of the Growing Small Towns show features 3 humans, um, that have in some way, shape, or form partnered or funded some of the work that we do here at Growing Small Towns. Um, Growing Small Towns is a 501, uh, and so we are always, of course, looking for individuals, organizations, and, and companies that want to see the work that we believe is critical to the growth and vitality of our communities. These are the people that want to see it happen so much so that they say, we want to partner with you in bringing this work to, to all small towns. We have a strong belief that we want to work with the willing and love the rest. So we don't force ourselves on people because that's not a good look. But I'm telling you, as the person that was, you know, originally had this idea of creating an organization where small communities, people in small communities could go to have quality people-centric programming. Finding these humans, these three in particular, it's Bernie, Kathy, and Paul. It has been one of the biggest gifts of this entire experience is finding people like this that are not only in a position to raise their hand and help us or come alongside us, but they're enthusiastic about what we're trying to do. Like, there's such an alignment of beliefs between our organization and these humans. And it's our, our work, the work of Growing Small Towns. I mean, it's almost so social entrepreneurship. It's— and I get, if I get any questions, that's a lot of times what people will reach out to me and ask me about is just like, how, how are, how are building the kind of the intersection between the building and the nonprofit is organized, how I decided to make it a nonprofit versus going for-profit. Like, there's all these questions, which again, like, happy to share if you're, if you're one of the people wondering that as well. But at the end of the day, the reason Growing Small Towns is a nonprofit is because I don't want price to be a barrier to people that want to access the tools and resources and development that they need to grow. If there is a person that's on fire for their community and it's a small town of 200 people or less, or, you know, 5,000 people, it doesn't matter, right? If you are a person that's on fire for your community, I want to help you grow, period, full stop. And so this, this work does need to be subsidized to a degree. And you're about to hear from 3 people and kind of you'll hear their respective ways that they kind of came to us and, and why they think this work matters and what it means to their organization. But we are always looking for partners, whether that means that you're going to fund the work or you're going to help us deliver the work in some way. We are always looking for like-minded people. And so as you're listening to this, if you think, I know somebody that Rebecca should talk to, this is again, please raise your hand, give me a call, send me an email and let us know because there are so many opportunities for partnership and collaboration and it's one of the most important values that we hold. At Growing Small Towns. So please enjoy these lovely conversations with 3 of our partners. Hey Bernie, welcome to the show, friend.

Thanks, Rebecca.

Super good to see you.

Fun to be here. Fun to see you.

Yeah. So you, sir, everywhere I go when I talk about Growing Small Towns, your name tends to come up. You're, you were a 3P bus rider. You've been on our bus trip all 3 years that we've done it. You work for Bank North, which was one of the companies that came along and early, early partner, early supporter, brought your teams to our facility. You're now a board member for Growing Small Towns. And again, you're— when I talk about, I share a lot about the fact that like this whole thing, you know, the renovation of the building and the starting of the organization and just the doubt and the uncertainty and the like, seriously, like, what the hell am I actually doing? All of those feelings are totally, like, placated by or just softened by people like you. You're one of those key people for me that just— you keep me going when I'm having a bad day. I call you sometimes on Fridays. I'm like, it's Friday, let's talk about the week, right? So you're massively important to me. As a human. So there's a million directions you could take this in because you've had a lot of interactions with me and with our organization since we started. And really, we've only been friends for a handful of years, like basically right along time, you know, same kind of time that Growing Small Towns was born and has grown. That's where our friendship and partnership kind of blossomed too, which is really cool and kind of unbelievable because I feel like I've known you my entire life. So with all of that preamble, sir, what do you think? You know, you know that our, our key kind of main focus is that we believe that when people get better, people, individuals, whether it's in a company like Bank North, it's in a community like Castleton where we happen to be sitting, churches, families, when people get better, everything gets better. So what do you think from your perspective and all the ways that you've worked with us, what do you think is the biggest reason Growing Small Towns needs to exist?

Well, that's a, that's a, a big question. Um, and, and first of all, thank you for those reflections and kind words about our relationship. I feel the same way about how fun it's been to get to know each other, to know that we have passion that's so aligned and yet coming from a different perspective or a different angle. And, you know, thinking about some of those things you mentioned, the bus trip and being a three-peat for that and how—

Your jacket's forthcoming.

I mean, well, yeah, I, I, if you, yeah, if we need to have measurements and things taken, I assume it'll be a custom.

We'll get you to our tailor.

Custom tailored, uh, fitting. Um, each of those bus trips, you know, had, um, a separate impact on me and why I keep thinking about the importance of that. The first time, of course, it resonated with me because there was a connection of all the economic development efforts and the businesses that are struggling to find workforce in Fargo. And you said, hey, let's bring Fargo out to Oakes.

Right.

And from Castleton, I have had the pleasure and honor of being in some of those channels of economic development boards and, and, um, trying to make sure that Castleton remained relevant and, and a really visible asset in the regional asset inventory. Because Fargo and Moorhead and Cass County and Clay County, as, as things continue to grow and evolve, realize that it's more about fighting rural versus urban and more about connecting how are we alike, right? And how can our resources complement each other?

How do we need each other? And we do need each other. How do we support each other? Right? Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

So I think prior to the bus trip, I hadn't thought of the reach of Fargo getting to Oakes. You know, it's easy to see it when it's a 15-minute drive or 20-minute drive.

Right.

It's a little different when it's an hour and a half. Um, but on that bus, I met people that really do believe in that and understand that there's opportunity. When I think about, you know, the more specific elements of Growing Small Towns and how aligned it is with Bank North's vision, geographical footprint, the belief in developing people to do a better job. Our business model is very much relationship-based, and relationships has a lot to do with the human element. Yeah. Transaction business certainly requires human engagement, but it's less dependent on a sustainable relationship, uh, where good humans agree to lock arms through thick and thin, through up and down, good times and bad. You can do that a lot more effectively and sustainably when you're a better human that has a better understanding or better communication skills or a better awareness of somebody else's perspective on a complex issue.

Right.

When we develop our bankers, we don't just teach them lending skills. We teach them empathy skills, or we hope they have empathy skills.

Right.

We teach them communication that's hopefully not just industry-specific acronyms or jargon. Jargon.

Yeah, right.

Hey, you're talking to someone that does this maybe once a year, once in a lifetime, and you're explaining things with, with tech, with, with communication, with language, excuse me, right? That, that really is not understood by everyone. Yep. So that awareness alone, I think, makes people better bankers. Growing Small Towns has that unique opportunity though, of highlighting these things, putting words around those emotions, putting structure around what is it that makes a person feel more developed. What is it that, that allows someone to say your voice matters? And when you use your voice, um, in a space that's beyond your day-to-day work, when you take that skill set into your coaching your Little League team or being a member of the Job Development Authority or City Council, you come with a wider lens. You come with, with hopefully better tools to serve that element of your life as well. And so I think that's, that's the piece about Growing Small Towns that makes that really— it elevates the awareness for the people in that space.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. You've said so many things, Bernie, that I think we're going to, we're going to touch on just kind of at least a little bit like you're— you literally named a few really specific skills that I think the other, the other premise that I'm hoping we can continue to push. It's not a narrative. It's just I believe it's a truth. That the skills that you've identified, even empathy, like good listening skills, being able to— and jumping into somebody else's perspective is empathy, right? But those things that we've for years and years and years were identified as a bucket of soft skills. That's like, that's in the business world. That's what we called them was soft skills. I don't really care. Some people get really fussy about that. I don't care. Call them soft skills, but they are skills. I think that's, that's the word I'd rather pay some attention to. Sometimes I think there's this mistaken thought that you're either born with those things or you're not. Like they're a, they're a set of things that people either embody. Now naturally some of us personality-wise embody some of those things more, more fluidly maybe. Right? But then I'll just say it like as a, I think, I think I'm a very empathetic person. So then on the shadow side of that for me as a human is that I see suck at saying no. I'm a people pleaser by nature, and I don't hold personal boundaries very well. So all I'm saying is it isn't a set of have or have-nots. These are actual skills that can be developed with intention and with good programming. And that's why I think it's so important. We, we, we constantly just say, well, we're not gonna change people. And I'm like, well, no, we're not gonna change people, but people change themselves if they're given the right context, they're given the right support, and they're given the right tools. I really truly believe that people can develop anything that they actually have the desire and the willingness. And obviously they have to have a certain base level of intellect. But for the most part, for the most part, all of these things can be, can be developed. And those are the things I care about. I, you know, I care about strategy and I care, you know, when you think about business, you think about what it takes to make a business successful. There's all sorts of things from a systems standpoint and software and, and even strategy. Ultimately, if you as the humans deploying all of these things don't continue to get better, you're going to stall out at how, how good you can become at some point. And I feel the same way about communities, and I feel the same way about churches, and I feel the same way about every— anywhere there's two of us trying to accomplish something, we will stall out to the level of our own development.

Well said, Rebecca. And when I think about some of those things and how we've been able to see that come to fruition. So you mentioned in the introduction that as, as a, as a company, we've used your space.

Yeah. Yep.

As a meeting ground for our monthly management meeting and other, other meetings where we have team collaboration. And for several of those meetings, part of the agenda was dedicated to leadership development. As we think of the evolution and succession of our leaderships in our 11 locations, it's important that we do that intentionally. We don't just hope that they, quote unquote, came with some soft skills. We want them to know that we have a diverse team. We have some very direct people that maybe innately didn't get modeled to them great soft skills.

Yeah.

But within our team, we have those, those people that are examples to others. And when we, when we witness people living those skills, people that need to know how to say no can learn from those people that are really good at saying no.

Exactly.

And when you have those conversations and when you had would introduce some of those topics at the front end of our meetings that happen to be in your space. That's when rich conversation would happen. We would start to recognize those, those pieces in each other. And we just think about it different. We're out, out of our own, we're out of the office. We're encouraged to think about things differently. And we give ourselves permission to talk about that, to emphasize the importance of it. So without Growing Small Towns, without the space, without the encouragement to identify and emphasize the importance of learning those skills, um, it might happen or it might not, but the chances of it happening are a lot better and, and stronger when you, you put intention and structure around why you should and, and who you have amongst your team to learn from.

Yeah.

And you take this, you take this idea of, of that kind of learning and you deploy it across a community. And again, like, I, I will, I will assert that in a small town, that ripple effect does happen deeper and faster. I say same, same rock, bigger ripple, right? Like, you can, you can do a program like this in Fargo and it'll, it'll impact the people, you know, the people that are there get impacted the same. I understand that. But when you think about that, there's just less people you're already working with in a small community. And I think it helps us illustrate the power of personal contribution and gift stewardship, right? Like if I have a set of skills that can help something get better in my small town, you can get connected to those things quickly. And you can make a big difference quickly. And I think that's something that we all like for you as an employer, in like exclusively rural places, right? Exclusively in small towns. That's Bank North's footprint. That gets to be a recruitment tool as you're looking to this new generation of people coming into the workplace. Like they, they have a social conscience, they care about stuff. And so while the narrative seems to be that nobody wants to volunteer anymore, I'm gonna continue to push back on that and say, I think there's more to this than that, right? I think there's, I think that's not— that would be so easy to just do that, but that's like blaming and being a victim about it. Like, oh, nobody wants to come to my thing and nobody wants to help me with it. And then you're just like, wah wah, and you're like sad and whiny about it. Well, okay, what's actually at the core of that? Because what we're seeing with this generation is that's not true. So we need to think differently, right, about how we engage people. How we let them come into our stuff. And all of this is for the betterment of the humans that are either in community, working in your, in your place of business. And I think it helps everybody get better. You and I have talked about that so many times. Like your job at Bank North is not just to employ good bankers. The entire experience that they have working here helps them become better people. And that's why the impact that your bank has on community is so important. It's not just the money that you give because you're a generous organization, right? That's a piece of it, I understand. But the true giveback is in the way your employees, your people show up in their community.

I think you're right. I believe that community banking across the state, across the country plays that really unique role.

I do too.

And it's so effective in smaller communities because your voice as a percentage of the voices is a little higher. And you're right, it's not all philanthropic. It's really, it's business development. When you have a strong community, you have a strong bank, you have a strong business. If we're financing the businesses that support that community, what are the chances that the café is going to succeed if the community is dying?

Very low, right?

But if the community is stable or thriving and growing, Every business that we put a risk into by supporting them financially in a loan has a better chance of succeeding as the community grows strength, attracts the right kind of people that are interested in a better quality of life, a better sense of engagement. And you're right on the volunteerism too. I think when we mandate and force people to do things that they don't know why we're doing it, or we don't give them a voice to understand what they're passionate about.

Yeah. Yeah, that alignment is really important.

Yeah.

Between what they love and what they care about and where they, where they get to show up giving of that.

Yeah.

We can't, we can't compel giving.

Exactly.

Or volunteerism even. So Bernie, I just, again, I gave, I said a lot of words to begin about how much I just appreciate you. But it, what's also just super fun about, about our, our partnership and our friendship is just, we were kind of talking about this we hit record, all the connections that we've been able to foster for one another, you know, that's the other— that's— there's another ripple outside of that as well. Like, you, you serve on national boards, you know, you're involved in things at the state level, and I just want everybody to know that you might just be one solid connection away from an entirely different life. Like, I really truly believe that aligned partnerships matter that much. And I'm just so grateful for you. And basically, like, you might be a board member now, you won't be forever. We do have term limits. You only have to take a year off and then you can come back. But basically, you're not going to shake me. Like, you can try, but I'm not going to let you. You're stuck with me as long as I breathe. So there.

Again, very kind words. It really is my pleasure, Rebecca, to be in, in your river of a strong current of making small towns better. And it's been a pleasure and it's going to be even more as we continue to expand and make Growing Small Towns even stronger, more visible, and more impactful across more communities.

Thanks, Bernie. Hey, Kathy, welcome to the show.

Hey, Rebecca, it's great to see you.

Oh my goodness, it's always so good to see you. So we have had lots of fun interactions since I started Growing Small Towns. You happen to be an Oaks native, so we were always destined to, to come together, probably. But there's been some really specific ways that we've worked together since I launched Growing Small Towns. I would love to hear from your perspective what you think the value of, you know, the organization is, the work is, what difference you feel like we're making overall from your vantage point.

Be happy to comment on that, Rebecca. So Growing Small Towns has become a vital asset to Southeast North Dakota, not just Oaks. Mm-hmm. I feel like you have brought a whole new energy to Oaks and surrounding area with Growing Small Towns. You're all about growth.

Mm-hmm.

You're all about looking to help businesses who are thriving but want to thrive more and be more successful. You're concerned about small towns because you believe you have a passion for small town living. And so with that passion, you want to share it with other people. And you are creating an entrepreneurial spirit in Southeast North Dakota that it hasn't had for a long time. But we know that there's challenges with the workforce. Yeah, we know that there's concerns. We know that as people in the professions that we are in, there's always continuous improvement that's needed. There's always upskilling.

Yes. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Those are two big keys. So the things I care about, right? Like, if you're not growing, you're dying. That's a huge mentality that I have, and I know you share that.

And change is inevitable. And you either can fear it or you can embrace it. And that's why I think your business is so successful. Also, you have the personality to get people excited about it. And so when you are looking and you're talking and you bring busloads of people in, in July from all over to showcase Southeast North Dakota, specifically Oaks and what we have there to offer, you're spreading the word, you're networking, you're showing people, hey, small town living, it's good. It's really good and it can even be better. But what's more important is you're willing to listen. You're willing to listen to what businesses need. Those businesses then can bring their concerns to you and you have created a network so that you can get in touch with people who can help bring those skills that business owners are needing to their employees. To help them grow, to help them improve. And it's not only about the business succeeding, it's about the people, the personal growth, the development and success of the business, but also of the person.

Right. That's the cool part. Thank you.

I—

you— it's what I got to say is I think of all the people, I really think perhaps you are one of the people that truly just gets what we are trying to do here, like in a, in a very real, uh, clear way. Because you wouldn't think that we would have to, um, kind of fight for the right to be heard when it comes to personal growth meaning something. But you know that sometimes you do because it's so easy to dismiss those things as soft skills, right? We call them soft skills, and, and I don't even care. I don't mind that we call them soft skills. That's fine. What I, what I do care about is when we is when we diminish them or move them way down the priority list because we say they don't really matter that much. Because I truly believe that it matters more than anything.

Absolutely. You can learn the technical skills. We can be tech savvy, we can run social media, we can run software programs, but we have to have the humanness behind those things. And so those soft skills to me are more important than ever.

I agree. Yeah, I agree. And it's the other thing. I mean, again, Bailey is going to actually be one of the people that we talk to on this, on this podcast, to her dismay, by the way. We'll just say it. She, she doesn't necessarily love to, like, do public speaking, but for, for me, she was so much fun. So Bailey was in your class. I worked with you at NDSCS in the business school a few times, right? Came, came to your class. You had a marketing class come and do a whole focus group for our community, and you brought a busload of students here. So we had, we had a number of ways that we got to work together, and I just, I loved all of it. Bailey was one of your students and ended up interning here while she was still in school. And then I created a position and she was our first full-time employee. So what was really cool, and I'm just saying this, and again, she and I will talk about it too, But in case you didn't, I don't know if I ever actually told you this. Well, so I was sitting with her, right? And like staring at the little table and chairs that we were sitting at in my office when she said that she would take the job. And Bailey's from a little town. She has a connection, like some family connection to Oaks. So it's not that Oaks was completely unfamiliar, but she was living in Wahpeton and she graduates. From your program. She graduates with a business degree from NDSCS, and she's got my job offer and moving to Oaks as a part of that, right? I looked at her and I said, Bailey, I said, I seriously want to know what made you— what truly made you say yes to this? Like, you, you know, you've lived in a small town, you know what you're going to expect here. But I know what a big ask this is. You're 22. You know, right, right. And I said, I said, so, so just, I, I just like, I honestly just wanna know. And so what she actually said was, I was, I couldn't imagine working for somebody better than, than you. Like, you know, as she had gotten to know me, she just basically said, um, the fear of trying to find a better employer was scarier to me than the challenges I know, I know are gonna come my way by moving to Oaks. And, and the only reason I share that is not, not as a pat on the back to myself, but kind of as a reminder to all of us that especially if we are recruiting people, especially if we're employers, like, who we are and what we're actually like to work for and with truly matters. That's why when we talk about soft skills mattering, that's why they matter, right? Because, because young people, someone as young as 22, they are making decisions differently than I think what we assume they're going to decide. I think there's a lot of assumptions about what young people want, what young people need, and I think we need to check all of that. Mm-hmm. Because like literally Fargo was right there, right? The town she is from is only 20 miles from Fargo, right? She absolutely could have taken a bigger, different, better, fancier job. Whatever, for, for the nightlife and the activities and all the things in Fargo. She, she didn't choose that. And that was really telling to me. And I just was like, this is so exciting, you know, like what?

Yeah.

And those stories, telling these stories matter because we need to share when things like this happen and, and help think about how we can replicate that other places.

So one of the things that I don't know if I told you this either, Rebecca, is when I asked you to come to my business law class and talk about copyrights with your book.

Yep.

And starting up growing small towns.

Yeah.

I do that for two reasons. Number one, there's nothing that I can tell you or the students that will replicate what you can tell them.

Mm-hmm.

Firsthand experience. There's nothing like that in a textbook. You have to bring a textbook to life with people who are doing it.

Right.

And I remember I asked the kids the day after you were there, let's debrief on our guest speaker, Rebecca Undum. Let's talk about good things. What did— was it worth her time? Was it worth our time? One of the things Bailey Adams said to me was, I liked her enthusiasm, her personality. That's a soft skill.

Yeah.

So then when I convinced Greg that we need to take a busload of kids to Oaks to tour, mm-hmm, that whole storefront coming into growing small towns, having you talk to them, having them experience that and look at the options Main Street Oaks has, which are plentiful. Right now was also a selling point that this is a pretty neat small town. So it was a combination of things. And with Bailey's personality, I knew that it would just click with you.

Yeah.

So that's a testament to what you're doing.

Well, I appreciate that. And it's, again, I would also echo it's a testament to the way you approach your work at NDSCS. We are not just turning out tomorrow's workforce, we are turning out tomorrow's humans that are living in society, in our communities, hopefully coming, you know, some coming to small towns. The way they develop their mindset, their social-emotional learning, emotional intelligence, communication, interpersonal skills, all of these things, they matter absolutely as much as their technical education. And so I think that's why we were such a natural fit. I hope we get to bring another busload of kids down here and Bailey can be the one to welcome them. You know how special. Exactly. There's so much opportunity. And so I guess the other takeaway for everybody listening to this too is if and when you have the opportunity to partner with or link arms with any of the schools around you, whether they're high schools, whether they're CTE schools, whether they're In this case, you're a technical college, but if it's a 4-year college, whatever, partner with those and get yourself in front of students. Bring— and I guess for faculty too, we'll make this plea— bring your textbooks to life through humans that are doing the work.

Absolutely. That's what sells programs, is people who are out there doing it and people who are willing to come into the classroom, or invite us to their workspace and let us see it firsthand. That's what sells it.

Yeah, and you're just— you're, you're doing such a great job, and it has been so fun to be reconnected with you in all the ways that we've been working in this community. It's been so fun.

I love it. And thank you also for being on our advisory committee.

100%. I'm, I'm happy to do it. Um, we need your school. We need your school, and we need good educators.

We need growing small towns.

Thank you, Kathy. As always, it's just always so good to see you.

Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it.

Well, hey, Paul, welcome to the show, friend.

Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, you're like a super big deal now sitting in this corner office.

Yeah, it's a humbling experience. I've— I'm very humbled and excited to serve as a CEO of Cascade Electric and serve our members. So it's a great opportunity.

Yeah, I know they're all super happy. That you took over the reins too. And so it's been really fun. You were on our first 2 bus tours. This was the first year we didn't do one. So by the way, just, you know, for your, for your knowledge, we're moving it just to an every other year offering, but for sure we're going to continue it. It was, it was special. It was fun. That was when you and I first met.

Yeah.

And you weren't the CEO then. Now you are. You have, you were a Rural Champion Partner last year with Growing Small Towns. So you've, you've been a, you've been a fun person to get to know. You know, you've got your part now and you're leading this huge co-op. You serve rural communities throughout your footprint. What, what do you think is big picture? What's the value of Growing Small Towns as an organization? Why were you excited to be a part of it? You know, you could have come on one bus tour, but you came on.

Yeah, I was excited to do the second one. I think you're doing some great great things. And, uh, I enjoyed that bus tour. It was a lot of connections made. People are able to see the rural areas, the rural communities that are growing and are prosperous, and the work that's needed there. One of our core values at Cascade Electric is our commitment to community. And, you know, we support, um, we support the prosperity, the growth there, and the work that you're doing. We need these rural champions. We need somebody to step to the plate to take that lead. And how we can help and assist with that is time, talent, and resources. And that's one of the main reasons why we supported Growing Small Towns.

Yeah, yeah. And I think it's what's really cool about it. You understood, I think, early on, like you just said, time, talent, and resources. So, so often we think of the support of nonprofits as just being money, right? Like, we just need your money. The longer I've been at this, the more I realize, like, there's always strings attached to money. Um, and so for me, I, I appreciate that it's not, it's not just money. It's, it's an actual alignment of what you want to see happen, the work that we're doing. Um, and I mean, don't you feel that way? Like, it makes a huge difference when you're partnering with people that there's an alignment of vision and goals and hope, the cohesiveness there.

And everybody get out and see the work that's being done, support it in person, and do these bus tours and get people involved. I think is, is you're spot on. That's part of success.

What do you think is, um, again, like, you, you now have— you're the leader of this massive organization. This organization has a lot of responsibility, not just for providing power, which clearly that's the main thing you need to do. You need to keep everybody's lights on, right?

Lights on, reliability is number one, and safety, and like I said, commitment to community. So, right, it's just part of the cooperative business model to be a part of our communities get out there, go where the people are, support initiatives like Growing Small Towns. That is just really a core part of our business model.

Right. What do you think is the biggest thing small towns— I mean, what do you think they need to really be thinking about right now?

You know, I think there's a lot of opportunity right now. And I think in small towns— and you've, you've dealt with this before— is sometimes there's the residents of these small towns have been there a long time or the rural community. They're not always thinking that growth is a great thing. And sometimes we get a little pushback. They're like, we want to live in this little small town. That's the way we like it. You know, I think what they need to be thinking about is the opportunity. Our economy in this area is strong. There's talented people. I think they just need to take advantage of the opportunities and have a little openness and willing to grow in certain areas.

Right. Well, I know, you know, we've talked about our mutual friend Matt Marshall quite a bit. Right. And the fact that it can be really hard to sell this idea of growth. Obviously, that's rooted in fear. What do you think people are really afraid of? You know what I mean? What do you think is that the court just changed?

I just resisted the change. But I look at the, you know, we live in rural Kindred and I look at there's a hardware store, there's a new gas station, a convenience store there. And, you know, we're 7 miles outside of Kindred, 25, 30 miles from a big town like Fargo. We want those amenities. So we want to be able to— if you're working on something at home, you want to be able to drive in. Drive across town to get something that you need that you don't have to wait till Monday to go get. So we have to be willing to support those businesses because those conveniences are really nice to have in the community. So we have to have a little open mind and be willing to support that and see business grow in our small communities.

Well, I think, you know, Matt always comes back to the economy— the economics of it, right? Like the fact that if we want our communities— because the cost of running our towns isn't going to go down.

Correct.

Right. And so the only choice we have is to grow tax base. And so I know it's hard for people. But that's part— it is part of the core of our work is to talk to the humans that are living in these places. How do we become more open-minded, a little bit more open-hearted? And I'm talking cracks, Paul. Like, I know, I know it takes time to shift.

It does.

And help people embrace change.

It's the same way with a cooperative. If we're not growing as a cooperative, the growth helps us keep our costs down for everybody else.

Exactly.

It's a very similar strategy.

Exactly. Well, um, I, I would say I want to wish you the best of luck, but I don't really think you need luck. I know, um, this is a huge opportunity for you. It's a huge opportunity for what comes next for Cass County. And honestly, I just can't thank you enough. Yeah, from the beginning, the moment I met you, I was like, this is going to be the kind of partnership that, um, has all— that checks all those boxes for me. You know, there's an alignment We care about the same things. Um, you understand what it's like to be and live in a small town. Um, it's just been super, super great to have you on board.

Yeah, and, uh, same to you. We appreciate your, uh, the partnership with you and the work that you're doing, and it's part of our success. And look forward to working with you in the future.

Same. Thanks, Paul.

Thank you.