Moments of Growth: Mental Health Programming

Well, hey everyone, and welcome back to, uh, another episode of the Growing Small Towns show. Today we're, um, we're going to be rolling out, um, the first in a, in a miniseries. We'll call it a miniseries. Um, so we, one of the things we talked about, um, kind of within our board here at Growing Small Towns, um, and, uh, just kind of internally as we're, as we're looking ahead to 2025, Also, we, you know, we celebrated a big anniversary of our physical space this year. And one of the things that we were talking about is just giving voice or going back and revisiting some of the people that have interacted with us in kind of either really specific ways, or maybe they've been impacted by the work that we're doing. And we haven't yet had him on the podcast. And so we kind of had this idea. So, so one of our guiding beliefs at Growing Small Towns is that when people get better, everything gets better. That's a core belief for me as the person that started this organization. I just so believe in the value and the power and the ripple effect of one person getting a little bit better at any given thing. And so we decided to call these kind of mini conversations moments of growth, and we're going to be releasing them as kind of a compilation episode, kind of related to a specific topic. And so today's topic, we're— there's no particular order why we're starting with this one, by the way. To be honest, it was just the very first one in our folder of documents as we went through these. But one of the areas in which we have tried to impact, or I would say more, more specifically, our own community of Oakes, North Dakota here. And then I would say also we've maybe impacted a broader community because we've had a number of these conversations on the podcast. It's actually related to mental health. So several years ago, our local county public health district received a grant and our, one of our local medical providers, CHI, which is Catholic Health Initiatives. It's our rural— we have a hospital, we have a critical access hospital here in Oaks. That's a CHI-affiliated hospital. They do every— I can't remember now if it's 2 years or 3 years— they do a community needs assessment. And so the Dickey County, our public health district, applied for a grant to help address the top responses of what the the biggest needs were in our community. And at that time, and so I, again, I won't remember exactly how many years ago this was, I think it was about 3. It was mental health, public transportation, and food scarcity. So here at Growing Small Towns, we, so we, and I was asked if I would be willing to not only host kind of a coalition. So we started what's called the Mental Health Coalition, just people that were interested in being a part of these conversations locally. And by the way, if you're like, why are you telling us all of this? I, I, I just want to set up who a couple of these people are and then also just maybe encourage you if you don't have something like this in your community, just to think about what it might look like to start having these conversations, because it's really, it's really important. What's been interesting about this, this coalition came together as kind of anybody that's interested in being a part of this. And wanting to be a part of addressing this need. Of course, after a couple of years, the public grant ran out. And because we care so much about— like, when I think of mental health, I want to be really clear about this. There's kind of the acute nature of it when specific traumas happen, specifically here in our community. We really have grappled with a high level of suicide in our community. It's been a really, really challenging thing to confront as a town and as a community. It's been truly just brutal. So there's kind of an acute nature of it. And I also think a lot of times those— this— that's a social service aspect that comes into play. There's mental health services, right? Like actually finding and accessing therapists and counselors and suicide hotlines and, you know, having resources for when people are in an acute place. Where they need— they need— they have a crisis and they need help. There's also, though, this other aspect of mental health that I think I have always been very interested in. And it's truly— it's even just as simple as the way that we talk about ourselves to ourselves. There's a lot in the kind of the research and the vein of what's being called Community Resilience, where you really think about like, what does it mean to be a resilient person? And then what does it mean to be a resilient community? Those are, those are skills, they're developable skills. And I'm very interested in how do we bring more of those tools and resources to everybody that lives in community? Because we're, we're there's— life is hard. Life is just hard. And so even if you're not a person that has personally struggled with truly clinical mental health diagnoses of any kind, and there's such a range of those things too, I don't want that— the stigma that's around these things. I just want to say like, yeah, it's because you're human. Could we just talk about it like that? So even if you've never dealt with a specific diagnosis, you're a human and you have mental health and emotional health needs that I think there's a role for broader community to play in these things. So we said we want to continue this work. And so that's what this episode is about. You're going to hear from 4 people in this conversation. And again, anything that the guest wants to share, we will absolutely link to in the show notes. And so you can go back and kind of check those things out. But we've got two of the practitioners that, again, through the grant funding, we were able to bring in as speakers for our community, both lovely, lovely women that have been— that were wonderful to host here. And again, I would highly encourage you, if you're listening to this and you want to bring a speaker like this to your community, check them out because they were wonderful. And then the other two people are— one is Josh is affiliated with CHI, and he has a really specific lens on why this work is important. And then our Dani— so it was Monica, by the way. Monica and Michelle are the two practitioners. And then Dani is our last guest. And she talked about— she comes at it from the perspective of she works for NDSU Extension. So NDSU, again, we're here in North Dakota, is our public— one of our public universities. And because it's our land grant university, there's an extension office associated with it. I don't know how many states have a land grant university, but that's a really great partnership for rural communities. They do a lot. She's got— she has seen a lot. She's worked with a lot of communities and she just shares kind of her perspective in being involved with this group. So that is what you're about to hear is 4 separate conversations with 4 separate, very different lenses and perspectives. But we will continue to advocate and support and do everything that we can to, to bring to not only our community locally here, but the podcast this, this truly this emphasis on the fact that like, because you're human, these things matter to you. And the more we can see these things as skills to be developed and not things to be shameful or embarrassed about, because it just— we can normalize human struggling and help people understand how to better regulate not only their emotions and their thoughts, but just how they act. Then because of those things, we are always going to, to fight for that. We just think it's that important. And It's a huge part of what makes a community a great place to live is when people feel supported and seen even in their worst moments. So, uh, without further ado, uh, welcome to the first compilation of the Moments of Growth series here at Growing Small Towns related to mental health. Hey Josh, welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks Rebecca. It's good to be here.

Yeah, so I am super excited to have you. Um, you represent our hospital here in Oaks which is a, I mean, again, for every small town, every person listening to this, it's such a critical thing for our community to have a strong medical system. And you also have stepped up and helped in a really meaningful way with the Mental Health Coalition. So tell us what your experience has been like, kind of with Growing Small Towns as an organization.

Yeah, thanks, Rebecca. And, you know, I guess I want to say to thank for your partnership, if it If I could boil it down to just one sentence, I would say I am so incredibly grateful for you, for Growing Small Towns, for all of your support. I think I got involved in this kind of— it wasn't my initial plan to be involved in this. It kind of was something that happened organically as people kind of left positions within the hospital. My position changed as well. And so I kind of found myself partnering with you and the rest of the community in this work. And I knew what was going on. I was supportive of it, but stepped into a more intense partnership over time. And I'm just grateful because you are— you and Growing Small Towns, you're so passionate about this community and you want to see people thrive. And I think for me, that's that's so important, and you have been great to work with. It's been an honor to partner with you on a number of different things, and to just see the care and the enthusiasm that you have for the people of this community, that means a lot to me personally and also just for the ongoing success of this work. So, you know, the reality is we're facing challenges that are far beyond us. And especially in this mental health coalition, this mental health world, you know, these challenges have been growing over time. You know, and I think we could say COVID certainly escalated things.

Agreed.

Right. You know, I think the data though really is showing that this was something going on even before then. And I think it's going to be a challenge we have for years to come. But really, it comes down to people who care about people and are willing to invest in those relationships and those partnerships. And that's why I'm so grateful for you, for Growing Small Towns, because you care about people. You want to invest in those relationships with, with members of the coalition, but also beyond that. And I think really that's, that's the key.

Well, I appreciate that very, very much. I think what's interesting about the Mental Health Coalition It's a topic that, it kind of permeates everything we do if you really think about it. I mean, the overall, the holistic wellbeing of a person, you know, because you happen to work for CHI, you know, big rural healthcare provider on the physical side of things. Clearly we need that as a resource, but you and along with all your practitioners, you know, everybody I've ever worked with at CHI, we all know that it's, The physical is a part of well-being, but there's spiritual well-being, there's emotional well-being, there's intellectual well-being. That's that holistic part that I do feel very passionately about it. It's been wonderful and it's been hard. This work is hard. We've lost people to suicide in our community. That was a huge part of some of the driving force behind it. Originally, this was grant-funded, which you know locally are our health district, our local health district started it. But since then, we've decided once that grant funding ran out that it would continue to be a core part of our work at Growing Small Towns, because that's what we're here to do, right, is to actually develop in or invest in the development of people. And I just think we would be so remiss to not constantly wrap around the social-emotional well-being aspects of, of a person's development because it really does matter. It's the relational piece of it. It's their relationship with themselves. You know, a lot of it is really, it's the way we talk to ourselves. It's the way, you know, it's the way we think about things. It's the way we feel about things. And those are skills that can be developed. I think that's the— that's if there's hope for this conversation, right? Like, I think you're right, Josh. There's the challenges that are ahead of us. They may only continue to in some ways escalate, I think. Just the way that we are more connected than ever, but in a very disconnected way. You probably have thoughts about that. I think the fact that that's kind of the way our world is moving, you know, without question, this is going to continue to be a challenge. But I think the hope is that, you know, and again, we've had Monica, who was one of the social workers that came and talked to our community. These are skills that can be developed. And I think that's where I find the hope. Is that anybody that wants access to learning how to do these things differently or even just a little bit better, it's a skill to learn.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's a great point. And, you know, as you were talking to Rebecca, what, what kind of came to mind is for, for the hospital specifically, like I think about our, our mission, our vision, and, and really the, this, we were founded by a group of religious sisters. And they continue to have a relationship with us, the Franciscans in Hankinson. And they, we actually were, as a leadership team from the hospital, we went and visited them last December. And I remember we had like 2 hours just sitting around the lunchroom table and we were visiting with them and just asked like, what pearls of wisdom, what can you share? Like, tell us about the history of the hospital. And one of the sisters said, you have to remember to take care of people. And she said, your employees, yes, or the patients, yes, but your employees especially. And, you know, I think that was something we took away and just, it really, it fits into the broader vision of what these sisters were doing when they started here. It was, we're caring for people. And, you know, you talked about it's more than just the physical, it's the spiritual, the emotional, the, you know, all these things. And that, To me, that's always been the vision that we were handed by these sisters, you know, and you talk about like, I love what Monica had shared about this idea of community resilience.

Right.

And again, not to belabor the point, but I really love the example that the sisters had of that because they lived in community. They got it, you know, and in many ways, like, we're coming back and we're seeing, you know, a lot of these skills we're trying to work on, like, yes, there's a need for them. But I also see too, in our more recent past, there are some great examples of people who lived it out well. And so we know this is something we can do. There's hope here, you know.

Yeah.

Well, and I think that's the thing to always hold on to. You know, we can, we can see, you can see that there's a lot of statistics, there's a lot of research being done around isolation, you know, just the impact of rural communities, the lack of access to resources. And we, you know, I again, I— there's plenty, there's plenty to be afraid of. I mean, realistically. But I just think there's also plenty to be hopeful for. And with this particular topic, more than, than, than ever, I really hope that collectively all small communities, you know, like, like Oaks, like you mentioned Hankinson, you're in Lisbon, you're in Valley City, you know, you're— CHI is in a lot of rural places like lots of small towns. I hope that we can cling to the hope, you know, and people really— we will— we are the ones that will get us through whatever it is. It's all— it always comes down to people. And so I can't think of a better investment, um, you know, from a community perspective, an organizational perspective, and just a one-to-one perspective.

Yeah, well, and that's why I, I so appreciate what you're doing with Growing Small Towns in a rural community because the beauty of being in a rural community is, you know, your neighbor, you know, that person who lives next door. Now, at times, you know, we may get on each other's nerves, but we care about each other. And it's because we care about each other that at times we get on each other's nerves. But at the end of the day, we care about each other. And when we have that, we can, we can overcome— to your point, we can overcome anything when we know that the person right next door is there for me. And, and that's why, you know, you've always said that this Mental Health Coalition so closely ties in, um, to the work of Growing Small Towns. And to me, like, that, that's all the pieces coming in together there.

Yeah, agreed. I thank you so much. Thank you for being a part of the Mental Health Coalition's work here locally. Thank you for being a part of an organization that's so tremendously important to a huge network of small towns like mine. We wouldn't be the community we are without CHI. That's just, that's just truth. So thank you for all you do.

You bet, Rebecca. And thank you. I appreciate it.

Hey, Monica, welcome back to the show.

Good to be here. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, super excited to have this quick chat with you. And again, the point is just to illustrate why this work matters. So if you want to start, maybe, maybe you want to just share a bit. And of course, of course, you've been on the podcast before. We'll link to your previous episode so people can kind of hear the whole thing. But what, what has been your interaction with our organization? How does it tie to the work that you do? And basically, why, why does this work matter, do you think, to the overall health of rural places?

Well, I think our first connection was I came to town and did some presentations. And if I'm remembering correctly, one was on support around suicide prevention and intervention and even postvention. We know that suicide rates in our small rural communities are higher per capita than in our urban areas. And, and Oakes has been no different in that aspect. Right. And so, and then there was a conversation, um, when I was there around compassion fatigue with our helping professionals or helpers in the community. And those two things tie hand in hand. We, we also know it's hard to retain helpers in rural America. And so the more we can promote their health and their wellness, the more apt they are to stay in their work.

Right.

And so just that understanding of compassion fatigue. So really growing small towns, I see as this is this organization that links and builds community and surrounds with support. And so when we look at mental health issues in rural, isolation comes to the surface. So whenever we can build community, bring people together, it— that is all about mental health, all about mental health.

Right, right. You, by the way, for everybody listening, we actually livestreamed both of those sessions. And so we'll be able to link those in the show notes, which I think is another way to just continue to remind people that, like, that's available for anybody. You know, this— the compassion fatigue thing is such a real challenge. It was always there. And then COVID, like, I don't know, it magnified it by a factor of what? I mean, let's pick a number, any number. It was significant. Right. And so again, just constantly reminding ourselves that these are— I think the other thing I loved about meeting you and your approach to the work, because I'm not a mental health therapist, I'm not a mental health professional. And yet I really do believe that so much of what I spend time doing is completely related to social emotional well-being.

Absolutely.

Mental wellness. The conversations that we have about community, about finding a sense of belonging. And I think what I appreciate the most is that it would be really easy for us to throw up our hands and say, holy crap, this is just too hard. The system's broken, right? And rural places are just going to continue to get left behind. Of course, it can feel that way at times. But what I love about you, well, you're very warm. You're very— I mean, like, you— I just felt like you belonged with us, like, the moment I met you. And that was not just my perception, that was a lot of people's. Um, so besides you, just everything about you is great. But it's also that, um, I feel like you believe, as I do, that these are skills that can be developed.

Absolutely. And that's a little bit of a soapbox of mine when it comes to rural—

hop up there, do it.

Yeah, rural, rural mental health especially, is that I, you know, throughout my almost 30-year career in behavioral health, I've worked exclusively rural, grew up rural on a farm, and I have had so many conversations with people who the, the core of the conversation is, if we only had what these bigger towns have, if we only had the services, if we only had the dollars, if we only had the interaction or the initiatives. And I really fight against that because I believe rural communities are so rich in, in people and in community and in belonging. And we really need to look at instead of our view being on what we don't have, let's look at what we do have. What are the organizations, the people, the networks that are rich in our rural communities and how can we bring those to the forefront versus thinking we need to bring in what exists in urban because they have their own issues. Even with all of their resources and programs, they've got their own issues. And so let's think outside of the box in our rural communities and, and build what's already there, build upon what's already there.

This reminds me of— and I can't remember, Monica, I feel like this was just a conversation you and I were having off like, not camera, but I don't think this was part of your podcast. But I remember very distinctly, um, we were talking about confirmation bias, you and I. I don't believe this was in the podcast, but maybe. And even so, we'll repeat it because it bears repeating. Um, just this concept that you will always find what you're looking for. So train your, train your sights on specific things. And the example that you shared, I don't know if you remember this, but was the idea of being in an office and asking a patient or a client that's sitting in the room with you, to take a moment and scan the room and look for everything that's blue. You know, you give them a couple minutes, you say, okay, what'd you find? And they tell you. And then you say, okay, now this time I want you to take a moment and scan the room and look for the things that are red. And they do the same. And then you say to them, were the blue things in the room when you were looking for the red things? And they're like, well, yeah. When you say, okay, just to confirm, like, they were there, right? And they say, well, yeah. And then you say, why didn't you mention them and you're like, because it's not what you told me to look for, right? I was training my eye on focus. It's not what I was searching for, looking for. And I think that is— it is such an important reminder for all of us, especially in rural places. If you start to have that sense of everything sucks, everything is bad, I have no opportunity here, this isn't a great place to live, all of them. Yeah, any of those things that can— and by the way, this isn't a— this actually is not in any way an indictment. This is just a reminder. It's a loving reminder to everybody because we all fall victim to it, right? Things get a little too mundane, or we have a series of bad days. It really can happen to everybody.

It's a mindset. Yeah, it's a mindset.

It can happen to everybody. But so if that starts to feel like all of a sudden you feel like nothing's going right, take a moment and ask yourself, okay, all I'm going to look for are signs that everybody's great, that this is great, that there's things to do, that there's love to have, that there's just whatever the frame is, just consciously choose. And I promise you, you'll find that evidence.

You will find it. You will find it because we see what we look for. You're exactly right. We will see what we look for. And the more we look for it, the more we will see. And that can be both positive and negative. Right. So if we're focusing and looking for the the negatives or the lack, we will see it at every turn. Every turn.

Yeah.

Doesn't mean that we don't work to improve, we don't problem solve, but it means we don't stay stuck in that mindset.

Right. I remember that so clearly because it was one of the most clear ways I'd ever been— because I'm quite familiar and I believe completely in a confirmation bias. But it was a very simple way to to frame it. So I think it serves as a great reminder. And I think your work also, for me, was always very— it seemed very practical and also very grassroots. And I think that's really important because if we think that we can't get what we need until the broader system is fixed, oh, we're never gonna—

we're always waiting.

We're always gonna wait. And so I appreciate so much that you believe that individual people can affect a lot of change in this regard.

Absolutely. And even thinking about bigger systems being fixed, fixed means different things to different people.

Totally.

So it's never like we're going to have this universal, okay, it's all good now for everybody. It's not going to exist. So when we can look in our community, what's, what's considered good, what's considered helpful or fun or inventive and engages people, that's what we need to focus on.

Yeah, I think that's a beautiful way to kind of wrap this up. I seriously, I want to thank you again for your time, just coming and sharing your perspective on why this work matters. Because to me, again, I think I'd shared this with you, you know, the idea of a business or an organization called Growing Small Towns. A lot of people assume that means I'm just trying to get more people to move here. I certainly am. I absolutely am trying to, trying to recruit people to move here. But to me, this is more about the growth of us as individuals. Because I genuinely, genuinely believe that when we as humans get a little bit better, Everything we touch gets better, and that's how—

100%.

That's how everything gets better, right?

Yes. When you look at individual growth and how that filters into family and then into broader community growth, that's exactly true.

Thank you so much for coming today, Monica. Thank you for the work that you continue to do.

Well, thanks for having me. I appreciate the work that you're doing as well, Rebecca.

Well, hey, Michelle, welcome to the show.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy, crazy schedule to talk with me a bit about mental health. You were the first provider that we brought on stage through the Mental Health Coalition a couple of years back. And so I'm really thankful that you said yes to coming on and just talking about what that experience was like, why you think it matters, and all of the above.

Absolutely.

Yeah. So, yeah, why don't you tell us a bit, your, you know, your, um, when you came to us, you were still— had you just— you had just finished maybe your official coursework?

Coursework, yeah. So graduated from University of North Dakota with my master's in psychiatric and mental health as a nurse practitioner. So I don't think I had taken my boards yet, but Um, have completed my boards, and since then I've been almost a full year practicing as a nurse practitioner in psychiatry and mental health.

So yeah, such important work. And so when we brought you again, the Mental Health Coalition at that time was funded under the grant through Dickey County Public Health. And, you know, we had a broad cross-section of people involved in the work. And since then the grant ran out and we decided to to continue that work under the umbrella of Growing Small Towns because we just didn't want to see the focus or we didn't want to see it get lost. Sure. And again, it's, you know, it's a huge topic, as you're well aware. But when you think back on maybe that event, what stood out to you from it? You know, what, what stuck with you? And I should have done this follow-up and debrief with you like right afterwards. So shame on me. But There were a few specific things that stuck out from my perspective. I would love to hear what kind of stuck with you.

Yeah.

So obviously that night we talked, um, mostly about suicide awareness and suicide definitely as the impact it takes on individuals, the impact it takes on our small town communities. Mm-hmm. Um, and really just kind of heightening awareness of how close to home it is and what we can do even as non-healthcare professionals, um, be attentive to our neighbors, to our loved ones, and recognizing those signs when somebody is struggling and how do we safely reach out to them.

Right.

Um, definitely that night on the stage, looking around the room and, um, the true raw emotion that's surrounded those people in that room, people that were freshly, their hearts were bleeding because they had lost somebody to suicide. And then even I had a young lady come up to me afterwards that had tried years ago, um, had taken her life and just how it still was impacting her and how she appreciated others taking on the initiative to provide education to our community and The fight isn't up to healthcare. It's not up to mental health professionals, but it is as a community. And how do we do that fight together to help others survive and let them know that they can be survivors as well, that they're not alone.

Right. I think that was what I, I so appreciated about your approach. I mean, yes, you had gone through your coursework, but I really didn't feel like I was, you know, and not good practitioners. You'd probably never feel like you were being lectured anyway. But it very much felt like actually things every single one of us can do and how we can look out for one another. And I think the most powerful moment that I remember so distinctly was simply when you asked people to raise their hand if they'd been personally touched by suicide. And that was really because that was a really full crowd. I mean, we had almost 100 people here that night, if you recall. It was just a lot of people showed up for that event. And, you know, it— I mean, nobody counted the hands, but you just start really looking and it's almost like nobody is untouched or unscathed. And so I just think there was so— it's so important to talk about it and to somewhat normalize the challenging feelings that precede people actually, you know, commit, you know, take it, going through with suicide, right? Like, Suicidal ideation is a whole thing that a lot of people actually experience in some way, shape, or form. And gosh, when it feels that dark, feeling lonely and feeling isolated certainly exacerbates the problem.

That feeling of hopelessness, which I think we've all encountered at some point in our life when we truly feel like Oh my gosh, I'm so hopeless and I just don't know where to turn. I don't know if there's going to ever be a brighter day in my life. And we lose that energy and that motivation to work towards finding something brighter.

And we just lose the perspective. Yeah, we just lose the perspective too, right? Like, yeah, because, and like you said, so you lose the perspective and then you lose the energy to find it. That's, I think, you know, that, and that's so, so, so challenging. And a lot of times, as you kind of shared with us, outwardly there will be some, some signs potentially that can, that can tip, tip people off, people that love us, people that work with us, that kind of thing. But it was just so— it was so— it was also cool because you're, you know, you're a neighbor to us, right? Like, we didn't have to bring in someone from Minneapolis to have this conversation. It was somebody that lives in a community like ours. You do life like we do. And I think you even vulnerably shared some really hard moments that you personally had had. And I think that just— it just helps people to put it in perspective that if you're a human, it's quite likely you're going to struggle with some of these things.

Right.

And then just what to do.

We're not alone. And like you said, trying to normalize that emotion and that feeling that the more of us that make it a normal conversation or even feel comfortable making that ask. Are you thinking about suicide? Have you done anything to start a plan? That it's a responsibility to all of us to reach out and help others as needed.

And I think that's, as a takeaway from this, that's so important to remember that the social risk, what feels like social risk of asking that question We talked a lot about that even in our mental health coalition, kind of our group talking about how hard it is to look at someone you love and say, ask that question, you know, are you thinking about taking your life? And we all, all of us cringe, right? We cringe internally at just how forward maybe and how it feels kind of invasive, that question. And yet if we really love them and we're really worried about them, it is the question to ask. Ask. And, and I just, I appreciated that so much because I— there's such a, oh gosh, like, we don't want to, we don't want to step on toes, right? And we don't want to, you know, we, we don't want to get in people's way or be in their business or that whole— and that just, that doesn't help anything, right? So you really made that— I think that was a big takeaway for the people that were here, that it's actually okay to ask to ask the question, and not only okay but advisable, right, if you're really genuinely concerned.

And I would say in the last year as a provider, you know, it's like standing on a stage and saying you need to do this. I, as a provider, even when I get my patients in my office and it's like having to ask that question, it's like, oh my gosh, do I want to ask? Because then what's the next steps and what do we have to do? But again, it's like, we love our neighbor and our responsibility is to take care of our neighbors and ensure that life is taken care of. So, um, we have to remember that we have to take care of that person.

Right. And that's the ultimate way to show care. And I think, I think, and I don't recall if these were your words, if someone else said it, but the idea that I'd rather have an offended friend than a dead friend. You know, it's hard, but overall that's care. You know, if the concern is actually there, that it's okay to ask that question. So I just again want to thank you not only for taking a few minutes and sharing your perspective and why this work matters to small communities, because you're doing it, you're working in it now. You were just sharing with me that the inpatient facility that you have down in Aberdeen. So that's about 70 miles south of us here, um, was— has 10 beds and you're expanding to 18, um, which is just— I mean, it's wonderful that there's, there's funding, first of all, for the expansion of that service. Um, but I imagine you've seen a lot in the last year, and, um, thank you so much for stepping into the field, doing the work, and continuing to advocate for small communities too. To keep their eyes on this work because it's so important.

I appreciate all you've done too, just to make sure the energy continues. And as a small town, we continue to keep it moving, keep that energy going forward and reminding us the importance of being a small town and to continue to take care of people.

For sure. Thank you so much, Michelle.

Thank you.

Hey Dani, welcome to the show.

Well, thank you. Hi Rebecca, thanks for having me.

Hi, so good to see you always. Um, I hate that we had to schedule a Zoom call to make that happen. That's kind of ridiculous.

It's like the friendships of the future, maybe.

I know, I know, we'll have to be better than that though. Can we be better than that?

Maybe.

I don't know.

It's hard.

It's hard. Yeah, no, it's, it's good. It's awesome to see you, and I'm super excited. Thank you for saying yes to joining us to talk a bit about, um, your involvement with the mental health group. So, and you can take this in kind of any direction you want, um, the Mental Health Coalition, kind of that lens, um, we decided of course to bring under our organization because we just didn't want the conversation to stop, and it didn't seem that there was any other kind of broader group that was likely to take it on. And you've been, you know, you came to the community session where we talked about the resilience factors, which was kind of neat. You have taken a really key role in some of the discussion around food scarcity. So either, like, whatever you feel like you want to talk about, just why do you think these things matter as it relates to a community and, a small town like Oaks.

Yeah, well, thank you again for pointing out those things and for drawing attention to the needs of our community. I think that's a super important task that you have ahead of you, or that our group as a whole has ahead of us. The mental health aspect for me really changed after COVID, and I know that sounds like a broken record, but It— my job is family and community wellness, and that epidemic had such an impact on both those things, families and communities, and how can we help them come out of this and help them survive and thrive and move forward after an epidemic. That was really what highlighted it for me. And then when we got this survey back and people agreed in our small town that it was something they also think is a, is a needs addressing. All of that for me, my job, the epidemic, and, and that survey really highlighted why it was so important.

We—

I grew up in a very stoic family that we, you know, feelings and emotions were kind of talked about, but we, we move past them and we thrive without talking about them. And I really feel like we could do more than that for my own children and in my own house. If we have those conversations and we say, I'm not okay, I'm, you know, I need help. We just have this funny saying at our house that the 3 hardest things to say are, I need your help, and I'm not okay, and where's the Shire sauce? Yeah, yeah, it really is true though. What if we can't admit that it is something that we're having an issue with, then we won't get better. We won't grow from it.

Right. And I appreciate that perspective because I feel like a lot of us in the Midwest grew up with— there's just kind of a general culture of stoicism, I think, that we're still— that we still see. And it isn't— it isn't to say that there wasn't a time perhaps when that served them well. I don't believe overall that the kind of stoicism, because there's like stoicism as a philosophy that's a little bit different than what we're talking about. We're talking about truly almost the inability to both access and articulate, accessing them as one, like even acknowledging that they're there, but then articulating them out loud. That's something that I think it almost matters. And again, this is personal to me, but I think it matters almost more than anything. Yes, um, because it's what, it's what drives connection. It's what drives humanity, you know, binding or, you know, connecting and linking arms with other humans. And I also just think, and I don't know if you feel it, you've got 3, you're raising 3 boys, I've got 2 boys and a girl, but, um, what I find fascinating about it is in, in the absence of knowing how to do that, so let's call it emotional literacy, maybe is a place to like a bucket to call it. Like, if you don't know how to do that or you haven't been skilled in doing that, those emotions will show up in some way, shape, or form. A lot of times it's, you know, not great behavior, maybe not great choices. Our bodies can take it on. I mean, I don't know what you think and feel about all of that, but I feel like that's pretty well proven out to be true, that difficult things, they show up even if you decide you don't want to address them.

Correct.

So yeah, so why don't we just focus on being healthy and heal them and, and work through them?

So, right, much like our physical health, and it's— it'll be a big mind shift to consider the idea that we address our physical health and our physical needs. We should also be doing the same for our mental health and our mental needs. And, and you're right, raising boys, I'm the only one with feelings, I feel like, sometimes at my house. But that doesn't mean that they don't have them. I need to help them understand them. I need to help them express them if they want to, and so that we can work those things out. And it is, it is a challenge. I'm not saying I have all the answers. I don't have any, actually. But me neither. The idea that I'm, I'm there for them and that I can help conversate with them is a lot more than when I was a child. And I know that's way more than when my dad was a child. So I feel like the evolution is moving us forward and that we're growing and that we have the time and place now, especially after an epidemic, to draw attention to some of these things. And we've seen locally the impact and, and how much— when you lose one person in your small community, how much impact that has, right? For just that reason itself is enough to talk about it.

Totally agree. And I think Yeah, it's interesting. It's not that there's only one right way to handle emotions, but I mean, we're talking about literally making sure that people know it's okay to have them. I mean, really, like, it truly is okay to feel like— sometimes I'll be very flooded about something, and we talk about— we talk through the language of emotion in my household. And I'll be brutally honest, and one of my— I've got two boys, right? One of my boys, does just like, it doesn't, it doesn't resonate with him. He doesn't, he gets squirrely and he doesn't like to talk about feelings. And the other one is very attuned. He even called himself my emotional support animal one day, which I thought was super funny. I was like, you kind of are sometimes, just, you know, like he's attuned to it. So I do think some of it is, um, and I don't want to beat anybody over the head, right, or say like there's only one great way to do it. I just I think this, of course, it can feel kind of uncomfortable. But to your point of losing people, if we can't talk about it or don't think it's okay to talk about it, then we'll isolate. And if the feelings are really hard and really dark and really scary, that's when it becomes super problematic. And especially for a small community where— and again, suicide is not okay anywhere, but in small towns, like you said, it racks us. It's, it's tough.

It's a ripple effect.

For sure.

Absolutely. You know somebody who knew somebody, and, and I think we can all probably say that these, these days, which is super unfortunate. We, we can't just accept that mantra, right? We can help impact it in some way, and then hopefully not have to use that sentence anymore. No kidding. Yeah. So I really, I really look forward to the good things that are coming out of all of these grant opportunities and the the community forums and the gatherings and such that, that you've done or that has been happening there with the 501. So thank you for that opportunity. There's been a conversation surrounding it.

But, you know, we'll also make sure to plug NDSU Extension. So that's, that's where you work. There's a lot of phenomenal resources available to communities through NDSU Extension. And so I think sometimes too, part of what we hope to be is a convener or connector of really good programs and, and resources, right? There's a lot of stuff out there, and it's— we just don't want to make it impossible for people to find. So thank you for all the work that you do. Thank you for taking a few minutes and sharing your perspective on this. Um, I, I hate that I haven't seen you face to face in a while, but I know I will run into you soon enough again. And, um, you are really, uh, you're a really positive and optimistic and lovely person to have in our community. And I feel that way every single time I see you. So, wow, that's so good too.

Thank you, thank you. And I, I, um, I do do this as part of my job with Family and Community Wellness with NDSU Extension. Thank you for mentioning that. There are so many great resources, but I also do it because it's a passion and I love our community and I love our area and I want to see it thrive and, and be strong. So thank you for all of your efforts as well.

Thanks, Danny.