S5:24 - Learning As We Go in Economic Development with Ashley Geigle

You are listening to the Growing Small Towns Show, a podcast dedicated to supporting you, the person who really cares about the future of your small town. We believe when people get better, everything gets better, and our episodes offer the ideas and actions that prioritize people and small communities. Thank you for listening. We're so glad you're here. Our guest on today's episode is Ashley Geigel. She is the Economic Development Director for Murdo Economic Development Authority in Murdo, South Dakota. And Ashley and I finally just met earlier this year, and I was super excited to bring her on. She made the trek all the way up here to visit us in Oaks and see our facility. And there's, there's a lot that we can learn again from people doing economic development in other communities that are either similar sized or smaller sometimes in the, in Maybe in this case, Murdo is only a few under a few, well, not few hundred, excuse me, just under 500 people. And Ashley kind of walks us through her journey of how she found herself in economic development and hint, hint, she didn't have 15, 20, 30 years of experience in it, which I think is again, a bit of a trend we're highlighting is what does the future of this work look like? The future of this work looks like Ashley Geigel. And so enjoy this conversation with her. She is a delight, she is humble, and she's doing great work for her community. Community just like you. Enjoy. Hey Ashley, welcome to, welcome to the show, friend.

I am so excited.

Oh my goodness, well, I'm excited to have you. So you, you recently, uh, made the trek up from Murdo, South Dakota to visit me here in Oaks, and was so fantastic to have you like on Main Street hanging out in our space, and we had some really cool conversations. I was very excited to get to invite you to, to chat about economic development.

Yeah, it was, honestly, it's gonna sound funny, but a dream come true. You've been in my, you've been in my world since the very beginning of starting this position, and then like what, we, we only met in person, what, 3 months prior to that, and then yeah, right? Come and see your studio that I've been dreaming of since 4 or 5 years ago.

So, well, this certainly— I don't just bring people on here that like think I'm awesome. Like, that's not what I do. Because I think you're awesome. I think you have— you know, we— I think of all the different types of people that get to come on the show, or, you know, that I, that I want to have represented on the show. And the truth is, like, if I can have a good, organic, meaningful, juicy conversation with you, you probably could come on the show, right? And we'll talk about something. So it isn't meant to be like, we just talked to a bunch of economic developers because I technically don't even do that anymore, right? But I do think that you bring an interesting perspective to the work. You have, and again, I just say everybody can learn something from, from people like you doing the work. So why don't you tell us the story of your work? Like we'll just kind of start there. Tell us about Mirto, tell us about the community, tell us about when you took the position, what, um, what kind of circumstances or what the situation was like that you were coming into, and then we'll, we'll just take it from there. We'll get into what you've been learning and what you've been doing and all the, all the good stuff.

Okay, so, um, basically back, um, I graduated from Murdo here, high school here, grew up here, and then attended SDSU, um, South Dakota State, which we have a big rivalry this weekend. I don't know if you know, it's a rivalry football.

I did know this.

Yes, go Rabbits!

Just—

I know you can. It's fine. I, I respect— I mad respect for, for school pride, right?

Um, so attended SDSU for, um, hotel and hospitality management, knowing that I was likely going to return home. I didn't know what I was going to do for sure, but Murdo is right along Interstate 90 and has hotels and restaurants, and I basically grew up working in a restaurant Every restaurant I think I, I worked at in Myrtle Beach throughout my high school career. So I was like, that was kind of in the background, but I didn't really know for sure. Um, took a year, my, my, um, second year I spent in Hawaii.

Um, so this is new information.

I know, I was like, I can't remember who I always tell this to.

You hadn't told me, so I'm excited. Tell me all about it. What a dream.

Right. So, um, Hawaii has reciprocity with South Dakota. So, I mean, in all honesty, I think it has to do with tuition, right? Like, um, and there was not a whole lot of credits that were obtained in Hawaii, but I got to live life to the fullest, um, and just really kind of experience life outside of South Dakota and, um, just gain like a new perspective of, of almost like a different culture, a different world. Like, yes, Hawaii is part of the United States, but at the same time, like, their culture is very strong there. So we went to the University of Hawaii at Manoa, me and my college roommate, and which is on Oahu. So we spent 90% of our days on the beach and just had a really great time, right? So, um, did that for a year and came back. And when I had come, um, came back that summer, I met my husband who, um, it was a lineman for the electric co-op. And that's when I really knew that, yeah, I was returning to Myrtle. I did want to finish out this degree with hotel and hospitality management. Um, got that wrapped up, came home Got married and literally took the first job that was open, which was working at the school district. Enjoyed that for a little bit. Started having babies right away. Yeah. And then it was just kind of one of those things where I was just job hopping part-time opportunities along the way throughout the community because nothing really fit. And then I was actually at the 4-H office as the assistant at the time.. And a gal came in and was like, you know, I think this position in the newspaper, economic development, sounds like something that you would be really good at. And I was like, I don't even know what that is. And she's like, neither do I, but you know, the city's wanting to do it, so let's just see what it's about. So I went in and applied and that was in 2020. And so right at like December of 2020, I was hired for the position part-time. 20 hours a week, you know, with understanding we're just going to kind of see what this looks like. And fast forward, I mean, there's— I'm here, right? Kind of started the position in the manner of one goal was to fill this 30-acre piece of land that doesn't really have the necessary infrastructure on it to get that filled with tenants. 5 years later, it still looks exactly the way it started. So that's been a journey in itself, but we're, we're starting progress in that area.

So, um, okay, so I'm gonna pause you there, and I have a few questions along the journey you just shared. Um, one being, uh, did you have a specific goal of what you were— what you imagined you would do with hotel and hospitality? Like hotel management and hospitality?

I honestly, my thought process was— yeah, I could tell you actually, it's kind of funny. Um, there's a little building on Main Street that I was like, I would like to just have a little pop-up cafe where, um, that serves the community, right? Like a little lunch, maybe early dinner, be done type of deal. Maybe breakfast, you know, just coffee shops weren't real cool at the time, but like now, that would be the thing. Um, and it just, you know, after— I mean, we had, we had 4 kids in the span of 8 years, so that quickly became not a reality. Um, and then by the time, you know, working all these part-time jobs throughout, throughout that journey, um, it was definitely one of those things that I did— I knew I wasn't ready to go back into work that much, and I wanted that freedom to be able to work with the kid, or, you know, be able to go to kids' events and be there whenever needed. So, um, I kind of let that go. But on the flip side, my husband and I did buy that building last May. So, but not for a cafe, right?

I know you have other ideas now, which we've talked about a little bit. But okay, so I think, and I think that's really interesting because what I will say Um, I didn't actually know that was your major. I don't think we ever talked about that. Um, hospitality is a really beautiful background to have in kind of community and economic development. It's a very, very interesting lens to bring to, to your work. Um, I kind of love that actually, you know. I just think that, that industry of just— because that's actually, you know, that's what community development is too. It is hospitality. What does it look like to host well? What does it look like to welcome people and do that well? There's probably a lot of your, um, formal education that informs some of the way you think about those things? Well, maybe I should say, instead of there's probably a lot, is there? Does that feel true for you? Like, you, you think often about kind of that, that, um, that industry and how it overlaps with the work that you're doing now?

Yeah. Um, I remember like the podcast where you first were like, I don't know if I'm economic development, like I'm a little bit more community development. And I was like, I feel that, like, and, um, and I think that is it, right? Like, we are even like looking at, um, with the— man, I am going all over, I apologize— but with like the Dakota Resources Blueprint, you know, we have these building blocks of success, and like we even talk about like what does it look like to put tourism in that building block for Murdo because of our location, you know, halfway between the main points of South Dakota with the Black Hills on one side and Sioux Falls on the other. And like people just naturally stop here anyway, whether it's for gas. But like if we could take that extra step to say like, hey, come into the community, see what it's about, look at our main street, maybe there's an option for you here. You know, like really looking and diving into that on with economic development.

So, right, okay, no, you're not all over the place. It's great. Um, so just for our listeners, how big is Murdo and about where is it situated in the state of South Dakota?

Sure, so Murdo is population size, um, 465-ish, right, according to the census, the last census.

Okay.

Um, but like another thing that we really talk about is like with Jones County, Murdo is the county seat, but with Jones County we only have a population of around 1,000, so we're like the populated county in South Dakota.

Are you really? You're the smallest population? Because that is, that's a really small county population.

Uh-huh. Um, I like the smallest, like, land area is like up by North Dakota, um, by you guys. But, um, I don't know what for sure what county, but we are the smallest populated county. And so with all that, like, comes like some of its own issues, right? But, uh, we're smack dab We're like 2.5 hours from Sioux Falls and 2 hours from Rapid City.

So, okay, right in the middle of the state then.

Right in the middle. Yeah. So when, whenever, um, I tell, like, I was just in Utah and I was telling some friends that, yeah, our population is less than 500, but we have like 6 hotels, and they're like, what?

Right. Yeah, yeah, it is super interesting. And so you also just mentioned, uh, Dakota Resources. So certainly I've, you know, um, Paula Jensen has been on the, the show, Joe has been on the show, we've You know, we've had— and I serve on their advisory council as of the recording of this podcast. Love Dakota Resources. We're going to get into a little bit more. I know they played a huge role in just kind of supporting you as you were getting started. I don't— they do— they share their blueprint publicly. I mean, I'm asking and I'm asking you like in real time. I can also just find out if— I'll just say this. If we're able to share the blueprint that you just referenced, we'll do that. I know it's one of their guiding documents, so I'm not sure if you have to to like kind of be in the club to get access to that. I'm not sure, I can't recall if they share it publicly, but there's this whole model that they've, and they've, and it's not their, it's not original to them either. And they credit the source, but basically it's giving you a way to kind of make sense of all the different pieces and parts of economic and community development, how those two things, what's kind of the difference, what needs to be built first. And also there's flexibility, like you just said, you know, is there, is there a block that's not represented in this model that we need? And it sounds like for you tourism might have been an element of that, which makes a ton of sense because, yeah, to have less than 500 people and 6 hotels is really weird, right? It would be like weird if you didn't think about what it, you know, what you actually needed, why that was important. Um, it's good to have a place to stop and actually stay in the middle of the state because otherwise what are, what are the choices? Where are you going? And all those things. Um, I also think when I look at that model, the thing that I always want to add is like almost like a wraparound bubble of like culture and social cap, you know, the, the kind of all the social, the relationships, the networking, the, um, because I think that's kind of the glue that holds all of those things together. Um, so anyway, given all of that, um, so you get into it. Um, again, I think hospitality is a very cool background to bring into economic development, but you're absolutely building this position.

Yeah.

Had Murdo ever had an economic developer prior?

No. So we had an economic development group, the Murdo Development Corp, and it basically, um, and I don't mean this in a negative connotation, right, but it was like 5 guys that— 5, yeah, 5— that met for, um, lunch, and they had this revolving loan fund money from the USDA that they tried to do. They did what they had the capacity to do, right? Like, they were helping businesses out as needed. Um, and then as I was coming in, um, fortunately we've gotten a little bit of work done that we did with Joe from Dakota Resources. We did a lot of governance work, kind of reframing what the Myrto Development Corp looks like. So like my position is I'm paid by the city, um, so I oversee the development corp. So there is like two separate entities, um, you know, we're kind of working now at as like I, I just associate with the Murdo Development Corp. Um, but that being said, there's certain things with the city like I, I can't be a part of, like financials is one of them, because if there was anything that ever went bad between the development corp and the city, we need to have that protection, right? So like there's just different levels of, um, you know, what I can and cannot do. But yes, I started from the very beginning and in my head I was like, I just got to call some people and get some people. Like, this ain't going to be hard. Like, I could do this. There's no big deal. And that is a nervous giggle because it has been a whirlwind.

Of course it has.

Right?

I love that.

That's honestly, I swear, like, if you didn't have that lens, I'm not sure we'd be even— you wouldn't be sitting in this chair. You know, the idea of just like, well, okay, I think honestly more people need to have that attitude. I'm just going to say it publicly that, well, how hard can it be?

Right?

Like, and I just, I'm chuckling because, yeah. And even you, you're just like, oh, I had no idea. Oh, sweet, sweet, uncertain, naive me. Look at that. But right. I think that's kind of awesome.

Yeah, I like it. It was. So it's been a wonderful journey, fortunately. Okay, so I started off, we have like a theater, um, and there was nowhere for me to go, right? So the city was like, oh, we'll just put you in the lobby of this movie theater, which is great. Like, it worked for the first month until I actually was like having, you know, started having some of these private conversations with businesses and people were just like, oh, you know, it, it didn't work after that. So, um, we've graduated and now I have a really beautiful office and I very grateful that the, the city and, um, the, the office owner, um, have a great partnership that we can work that out. But, um, we had, um, it started, you know, just kind of very basic and just kind of trying to get to know who I'm supposed to know. And with, with the area that we're in right here, like, there's not— there's a lot of volunteer groups in the communities, but there's not that director position. So I was like I don't know who to talk to. And, you know, somebody was like, well, talk to Pierre. Well, Pierre is great. They're also dealing with a whole different realm of economic development than what I was anticipating or thinking about. I was like, how does 500, you know, compare with what, 13,000 I think is Pierre? So then I just kind of sat there stuck for a little bit and just calling whoever I could get a hold of. And then came Kristi Wagner from Dakota Resources, and she just marches into my room. And if you've ever I met Kristi, she's just like all woo-hoo and jazz and excitement. So I learned about Dakota Resources and took it to the next city council meeting and they were like, you know, this isn't what we exactly had in mind. Like, is it really going to help you? And I was like, I don't know, but I have no guidance anywhere, so it can't hurt.

Yeah, right.

The idea—

it's so funny right now because of everything I know about them too, the idea that they wouldn't help you, it's just really kind of comical. But I get that at the time. That was a very— it's a valid question. Right. Like, what do you think is actually going to come from this? And you're like, honestly, I don't really know. Right. But good for you for advocating for yourself.

Yeah. And we jumped in and yes, Dakota Resources has been super instrumental in everything from our community success to my personal success as economic development director. Just really honestly, um, I will say like you have to put in what you— no, that's not true. And so you have to put in what you want out of it. You can put in what you want out of it to grow bigger, faster, easier, smarter, smoother. I don't know what the right word is. Like Dakota Resources is always there to support any community that they're in, but I think I found more success personally because I dedicated You know, I dedicated the time and the hours to get on their Tuesday morning coffee chats and meet with other ED pros. I went to every event that they had. I still have not missed an event. I think 90% sure on that. You know, in the coffee chat, Tuesday morning coffee chats are still like a must on my calendar because there's just so much growth and opportunity there, whether the conversation is really pertaining to you or not, there's a space in there for you to kind of contribute. So, yeah, Dakota Resources, really huge. And then after 2 years of being a part of that, about a year and a half being part of that organization, we did a strategic planning session, which led to a governance training with Joe, which led to, we now have an application for our revolving loan fund and a committee that actually analyzes that. And that's such—

those are big. These are, again, I, I think about the reason I love this is because it's, it's one thing, you know, Justin Nepple was on, um, he too had to build, right? He had to build. They hadn't, they had never done a two-county like focus and all the stuff. Um, but there's one thing to be said about like taking an economic development position that has somewhat of of a plan for what it's supposed to look like. And then there's doing what you've done. And I think so again, this isn't just like a broad commercial for Dakota Resources, but I think it's for everybody listening to this. It's if they're not an option for you for whatever reason in your community, the question then becomes, what did they offer you? Like, what was it? So you put yourself in the way of every learning opportunity that membership afforded to you, which I think is huge. Like you said, benefits. You do get to take credit for that, Ashley, by the way, because a lot of people will just pay for a membership to something and they don't ever actually engage with the benefits. Um, you clearly have. I think coffee chats and the idea of that, that's something that a person could actually develop or create within their own community or for themselves because it's— there's a loneliness and there's an isolation in this work. It is, and it's It's so hard, right? I mean, you're out, you're doing your little thing, you're thinking about your community all the time, thinking about how it could be made better. And like you said, it's like, I don't know, who am I supposed to reach out to? And just having even a couple of people, if you can't join Dakota Resources proper and you want this same kind of support, there's a lot of resources out there, but you just might have to piece it together differently where Dakota Resources kind of gives you this this beautiful little platform that you get to do all of that with, which is fantastic.

Yeah.

The Growing Small Towns show is recorded locally at the Growing Small Towns podcast studio located in Oakes, North Dakota. It's produced by Pheasant Canteen Studio in Aberdeen, South Dakota, with marketing support from Cassidy Johnston in Canyon City, Colorado. Our intro music was created and produced exclusively for Growing Small Towns by James Bergman, singer and songwriter from Fargo, North Dakota. Local and small, it's what we support and it's who we love. Get your community a shout out on the podcast. Call 701-203-3337. And share your small town success that you just don't feel is being celebrated quite enough and let us shout you out. You can also share your biggest people challenge and we'll dedicate an episode to offering ideas to help. Hell, you can basically tell us anything and we'll do what we can to answer. We can't wait to hear from you. Today's small town shout out is Stanberry, Missouri. We are actually going to air the Google voicemail that we were left by Terri Johnson, who is the former now president of Main Street in Stanberry. Uh, this is actually very bittersweet. She sent us this message back in June. I just got off the phone with her. She gave us permission to play it, and it is such a— it is such a sweet message. Not only is she shouting out Three Point Coffee, we're going to ask you to look them up. We'll make sure we tag them. But you also just get to hear the love she has for the community. And since sending us that message back in June, they've since moved. They've left Stanbury. They called Stanbury home for 30 years. She has wonderful memories, wonderful things to share about it. They moved to be closer to their grown children and their growing family. Um, so a really bittersweet shout out today, but Terry, thank you so much for calling us. And this is also just a reminder that we really do listen to your calls when you call us. Um, if, if I think like, yep, we want to make sure that everybody hears it in its original form, I'll get your permission. We won't ever just post your voicemail without asking. Um, but we really do want to hear from you. So Terry, thank you so much for sending us this note, and here is the shout about for Stanberry, Missouri.

Hi, my name is Terri Johnson. I'm the president of Our Main Street in Stanberry, Missouri. Our population is a little over 1,100. We have a small coffee shop called Three Point Coffee and Event Space. They do TikToks, all social media, but recently in the last two weeks They posted a TikTok video that within 24 hours had 1.5 million views, and now within 7 days they've reached over 7.5 million views. They have been featured on several TV stations and our local newspaper. It is really quite a story, and It's just really exploded here in our community and definitely has been a great, great situation for this small, small business. We're really proud of them and thought that you would want to know about that. If you have any questions, I'd love to visit with you or can put you in contact with the manager. And on a side note, the star of the TikTok show just happened to be my husband. It's a darling video, and he's been featured in several of them. And so you can, uh, see the actual video on TikTok or on any social media platform if you go to Three Point Coffee and Event Space. Thank you so much for all you do. I really enjoy the podcast.

And that's just it. Like you said, you know, you feel like you don't have that person to kind of go to. And it's so true because, you know, I don't know, with our community, I really focus on like, you know, yes we can, right? Like, yes, we have roadblock after roadblock. We have lower funding. We have, you know, all the obstacles. And so it gets to that point where you're like, am I just complaining to complain? But then like you get on those calls and it's literally people that are also going through the same thing. You know, there's a disgruntled, um, organization with what you're doing and you're like, ah, am I wrong? Am I right? Am I up? Am I down? And, and if they haven't been through it, like, they will. And so like that conversation just kind of organically comes out with a solution and it just is really great. I love my Tuesday morning coffee chats. I'm not going to lie.

Yeah, for sure. I think, I think, and that's as people listen to this, I just want to encourage people like that's if that sounds awesome to you, there's a way to probably create a version of that for yourself, you know, or again, just check out Dakota Resources and join them because it is, it's really fun. It's always just so it's uplifting. It's uplifting to learn and grow and have a place to share.

Yeah.

And receive, right? Because sometimes maybe you don't even say a whole lot on a coffee chat, like perhaps, right? I know I— there's no chance I'd be on a coffee chat and just like silently sit there because that's not— it's not how I engage with the world around me, Ashley. But yeah, so, okay, so I— this is all— this is all so great. So what are— what is— what is one of the biggest things you feel like you've learned about yourself in this work, right?

Loaded question.

It is a loaded— it is a loaded question. But I think, again, you know this, like, I obviously, I care about community and economic development, but I care about the people that are in those positions. I care about leadership development and talent management in our communities. Like, what does it look like, you know? What does it look like to be good humans to each other and work well together and all of those things, right? So I actually, I really care about— obviously I care about you, but care about your journey, like what, what you've discovered about yourself through this, through this work.

I think, um, you know, there, there can be a lot of criticism in any public position that you're in, volunteer or paid, right? Like, that's just a natural given. Um, but being able to have your moment, um, Okay, for myself, I'll talk about my— I don't like talking about myself, but I'll try, um, to have my moment and, you know, really process and think about what, what could it be, what, how could it have looked different, like what could have I said or what could have I done that would have been different, where, um, could have I put in more effort, and then in the end, like, just analyzing all those things, but in the end coming back out with like that sense of like renewed joy, like, okay, so that didn't work. So now we got to, you know, cycle back and like, these are the steps that we're going to take now to try to, you know, tackle that task or complete that project or whatever it might look like. There are topics for a whole completely different podcast, you know, would be like the growth in myself from, you know, even 10 years ago till today, um, and just realizing like it's okay to— when someone gives you a compliment, even to be like, I, you know, you know, put your hands over your heart and really receive that compliment and be like, thank you, like I worked really hard on that. And, um, you know, I didn't do it alone, but at the same time, like, I, you know, recognizing that you maybe the root of why that accomplishment happened. So, mm-hmm.

Yeah, being able to stand firmly and graciously receive a compliment is not something that people are usually very naturally inclined to do. And I still even now find myself wanting to like kind of push, like not necessarily push back, but kind of just gloss over it. And that's— and I think I mean, I think this happens a lot with females. I think this— I think, again, I don't want to gender it. It doesn't have to be a gendered topic, but I think it's also Midwest culture. There's this like humility and modesty, but it's also— it, it, it— again, I'm always like, if we can't, if we can't get people to understand that there's an empowerment that happens when you do that, then I'll guilt trip them by saying like, it's actually, it's actually almost treating that person like they're not a good judge of character. You know, I mean, if somebody gives you like a genuine compliment about something that you've done and they are appreciating something and you just kind of like bypass it, it's actually very disrespectful to the person who took the time. So, so that's something to keep in your mind too, that, you know, being able to accept that. But I think too, like you just said, you do almost none of the work entirely alone, but you might be like the linchpin in the whole thing, right? Like you might be the integral factor of person that convening everybody or even hosting all the meetings or project managing a project. Like, right, that's— there is real value to that. And it's— I think it's awesome that anybody would even notice it because sometimes I think that's, that's the work that I think a lot of times goes really unseen is kind of the organizing, facilitating, convening aspects of, of community. Development work, right?

Well, yeah, and it just makes me think of like last night we had a work night. So we have, we have two governor's homes and we were laying pavers down for one of the, for one of the homes, like sidewalk style pavers. And I mean, I was there, I had my gloves on, but I really didn't do a heck of a lot of the work. You know, I was just kind of helped out when I could. Ever. And there's, there's our, um, board of 4 other males that are, you know, down in the dirt and moving the ground to make sure that things are level and doing all the things. And one of the board members stands up, and when we were all done, and he puts his arm around me, he's like, you did this. And I was like, no, I didn't. Like, you guys were just the ones sweating. I was just wearing the gloves. But in it, it's one of those things that, um, you know, I had to stop for a second and I was like, thank you, but like, really, we have a really great team that's working on a really difficult project, you know. Um, so it's been— it's definitely one of those things that is so rewarding, but at the same time, I'm always like having— I feel like I have to constantly remind people too, like, no, this is not just a me thing. Like, this is a whole group effort. Like, and there was extra volunteers last night that were helping out, you know what I mean? It's just one of those that it's great. It's not a me or a development corp. It is a community projects that we've all been working on.

So what has been for you the hardest thing to either accept or, or deal with in this position?

I would also say the criticism.

Yeah, right.

Like, I mean, yes, it provides you that way of like growth and working through hard things, and it feels rewarding once you've kind of nailed down or gotten rid of the criticism. But, um, I'm not, you know, I'm not young in any means. I'm— will turn 40 next year. So, um, when I started, you know, I was about that 35 age, and there was a lot of conversation when I had started and was suggesting new ideas, right? That's a hard concept for small communities, even small—

or harder concept for communities of less than 500, I would say, because it certainly can be a challenge, right, to bring up something that's never been done before.

Or yeah, and when the narrative got switched to that, I just wanted younger people to be on these boards and committees, like stung because there's a lot of value in somebody who has worked tirelessly in developing what they thought was a good project. And it's not that I'm, you know, it's not that I'm saying or that somebody with a different idea is saying, you know, your idea is terrible and it stinks. It's more about like, hey, like, I want to take what you created and just help it be a little bit different to attract the group that you're— that we're all targeting initially anyway. And so just sometimes pulling some of those conversations out of context and, you know, just knowing that our community is an older populated community and that they're— I value what they have done and what they have created So I just don't want that. I don't like that narrative that I want only younger people to be a part of things because that's not true. Like there's so much time and value and education that they have learned too. But also, you know, what would it look like too if we were able to open up and work those out, those scenarios together, those community groups?

Groups. So was, um, was that feedback handed directly to you, or did you hear about it kind of— was it, you know, no, a behind closed doors kind of thing, or did somebody actually bring that to your doorstep and say, hey, this is what I think you're doing?

Yep. Um, it started a little bit, you know, hearsay, small town rumor, kind of whatever, and gets a— gets you a little fired up and you're like, ah, whatever. And then, um, I remember like kind got over it. And then the, the person that had been sharing it actually came in and was like, I just feel like you're pushing us out. And I'm like, I don't know, like, what, what can I do differently to prove to you that I'm not?

Like, so was that— I mean, I, I'm honestly really curious about this because I think what we're touching on is this is absolutely an interpersonal skill that we're touching on right now, and it's that ability to to listen to critical feedback. And sometimes, let's be honest, it's not delivered with any decency, right? Or warmth or grace or kindness. Or, I just want you to know this because I think it'll help you grow. That's not usually how this kind of stuff is handed to us, right? It's in a really ugly package. And by ugly, I'm not talking the person, I'm just talking about the entire delivery. Delivery, right? And that's if we're even lucky enough to have it said to us directly. Oftentimes it's more of a behind closed doors and just rumor mill kind of thing. But our ability to take it in, not let the emotion that's likely flaring up within us because you're a human, not shutting down, not deflecting, not projecting, not criticizing back, not pushing them, all those things, that's real skill. It's real skill. So was there, was there any question you remember asking or moment where you felt like you had kind of turned that corner with this person? And what did that really look like?

Um, I don't know.

Is the answer no? Because that's a valid answer too, you know.

I mean, I kind of feel like it's a no. It just kind of drifted away, right? Um, and in a way, like, it's kind of cycling back with somebody different. Um, but also, like, being able to recognize that what that cycle looks like now. Um, right, you know, trying to get ahead of it and just being like, you know, like, literally saying, like, I value what you've done, what you've worked on, what you've created, and I'm not looking to take anything away. You know, these are just different things that maybe get brought to my attention or suggestions that, you know, I'm just providing the, the feedback there and not deflecting off of like necessarily like what my thoughts and opinions are. Like, I just, you know, these are different ways that we could make what you've created just enhanced a little bit more, you know. Like, so yeah, I, it It'll probably be like one of those never-ending type situations, I think, you know, especially with like rural communities. And as they begin to develop and grow and grow, is sometimes scary.

Growth is hard. Yeah, growth can be hard for sure. Yep.

So, you know, we say we want it, but are we willing to step into what would be needed to actually make it happen?

Yeah, so, um, thank you for your honesty in that. I, I wasn't expecting that you had some sort of like magic formula for how you handle these things, because if there were, we wouldn't— it wouldn't continue to, to be a factor, uh, in, in public sector work. But unfortunately, it just is. So I think that's where the value of a strong network, um, you know, people that you can rely on. And so is that a lot of what you feel like you have found within the Dakota Resources like, talk a little bit more about just kind of what it actually feels like to be supported in the work.

Right. Well, I have like this ongoing joke that ever since I started that I'll call Paula for a Paula pep talk anytime it's needed because Paula's fantastic.

We're talking about Paula Jensen, our dear friend at Dakota Resources. She's fantastic.

And I mean, kind of looking at the top down, right? Like, if you will, like, Joe is one of the most smartest guys ever. Like, I feel like I could bring any obstacle or challenge to him and he would be able to help, like, navigate you through that, right? And then, like, Paula with her pep talks, and Mike, same, same level. Mike is just a wealth of knowledge and experience. And, um, then Christy, like, if you need to celebrate, Christy is your girl because she rockset. And I just love too that, you know, all of the, all of those leaders are from rural communities too. You know, it's not like somebody— not knocking on Sioux Falls, but it's not somebody from Sioux Falls saying you should do this because, you know, I grew up in Sioux Falls and this is how it happens. Like, that's one of those big obstacles that I did find myself, like, when I went through like the leadership South Dakota program is like, I just want you to understand, like, it's also a different level of living in a small community, now living in Sioux Falls, being able to— you forget, you forget the things that you didn't have, or you know what I mean? That, that city living versus like rural living. Yeah. And, um, so I can really just appreciate that with, um, like the, the Dakota Resources coaches because they're in the thick of that, you know, maybe they just have experienced some of those same problems that we face every day. And then when you get into like this community of economic development professionals that are, you know, I will say I think Myrtle is probably the smallest community, maybe that population-wise that is in the network, but It's all relevant because they're all, you know, in that same range, or they have the same problems, or they wanna celebrate the fact that they have an application now for the revolving loan fund, or even just being able to say like, hey, I'm trying to figure out what a TIF is, and I have no idea because it's over my head, and do I use it, in an industrial park, or is it in a business district? Like, just when you feel like these are, um, like the stupid questions that you're like, I should know this but I don't, like, those are your people that you can go to because they just know. Or like, I'm gonna run a pumpkin patch but I don't know what activities to do, like, what have you, you know, experienced and whatnot. So I, that, I think those are some of the things that I appreciate the most about Dakota Resources is that it's not a It's not a stupid question.

Yeah, well, we all need places where we can ask every question without fear of looking stupid, sounding stupid, being stupid. Because honestly, again, the economic development— I love that you shared when this position first opened up, you're just like, I don't know what that means. And everyone's like, we don't either. Great. Go figure. Actually, nobody really knows exactly what this looks like. Right. And, and that's okay. It's just the hardest. So it's really interesting. I, the last job job I ever had, I was the organizational development director for a large nonprofit, and they had never had that position before. And so they recruited me out of— I was doing contracted, like, contractor work for Dale Carnegie Training, and, um, the HR director was in one of my programs. And I remember feeling that exact mix of, like, excitement and, like, energy about getting to create a position, but also there's just a lot of chaos. And sometimes there can be some kind of mixed signals because we don't always agree on what we think this person should be doing. And then, you know, there's not any clear metric of, of success necessarily. And so when you're building all of those things, it's— that's a lot. It's a lot to expect. It's a lot to take on. Um, and I just think I want people to be encouraged by your story, Ashley. Like, I want, I want people to— because again, I think this idea that any small community is going to hire somebody that's got 15, 20 years of economic development experience, like, good luck. You're not going to find that, you know. And that's even what Justin and I talked about a little bit. I think we all have to open our, open our minds up and maybe our supports to the fact that this is going to look a little bit different going forward than maybe what it has in the past or what we think it ought to be even.

Right. Yeah. And that, that's one of those things too, is I had met with the Aberdeen, their economic development professional at a Leadership South Dakota alumni event. And I said something along the lines, right, because sometimes words just come out of my mouth and it is what it is. But I was like, economic development does not look like what Aberdeen does in Murdo. And he was like, I hear that, you know. And there was a little conversation back and forth, and he's like, but Aberdeen economic development doesn't look like what Sioux Falls does either. And it's like that realization that, you know what, you're right. Like, you know, traditional economic development was business retention and expansion, new business, you know, those things. And, and when, when And we're looking at, again, to reference the Dakota Resources Blueprint, you know, we have public policy, we have leadership and development, you have housing, you have daycare, you have, like, there's just all that this, like, our communities cannot thrive if we don't start at the bottom and work our way up to these new businesses. And that maybe also has been one of those conversations that the community has really had to listen to. And want to understand in order for them to understand, if that makes sense. Because we were recipients of the GOED childcare grant funding that happened last year, and they're like, well, why are you working on daycare? And I was like, because if we don't have daycare, if we don't have childcare, if we don't have an afterschool program, like our parents aren't able to work till 5 or leave the house at all or You know, like there, there has to— we have to be able to have these solutions to boost our economic growth. Like, it doesn't, it doesn't like, oh hey, we're gonna have this industry of 50 people move to town and we have 2 houses open.

Like, exactly, exactly.

It's kind of like that's been maybe one of the other rewarding aspects of, of being in this position and kind of introducing economic development to through our community is, well, why can't, you know, why can't we have a manufacturing company that brings 100 people in? Like, that's the answer. And I was like, cool, in order to get there, we have to have 10 steps, right?

So, right, yeah. And it's, it's, you know, it's these— this is why for me, I just think I— there's, there's, there's honestly, there's few people that, that have to take on as wide and varied a set of topics as a person doing rural economic development. Like, it really is like, of all the jobs a person could, could have, your ability to navigate that, it's really challenging. And we have really no choice but to recognize that we probably feel most comfortable in certain aspects of the, of the work, whether it's our natural innate skill sets or our experience that we bring to the table, or in your case, some of your formal education, you know, those things. And then everything else we have to partner, we have to collaborate, we have— and that's, and that's a whole conversation that sometimes has to be navigated locally too, right? That it's not that we don't have even maybe some of the talent, but if we don't— talent and capacity are different things, right? You know, and so what does it look like to hire or to partner with an outside entity? And there's air quotes around that, right?

Or firm.

And how do we welcome them into this conversation and not treat them like outsiders. All of that work happens in your office, right? And then you have to, you know, try and— it's not even selling people, but there's a lot of education that comes with this, this role, especially if it was something that had never been done before, right? So it's, it's a lot. You've taken on a lot, Ashley, and you've done it very well. Um, I— if you— again, this feeling like I'm not doing enough or I'm not doing it right, I mean, I I don't hear that, like, really clearly coming through in the way you're speaking, but, um, I— you've done really good work.

Thanks.

And it's, it's fun. And I need to come and visit Murdo now. Like, you made your trek to me, so it's on me now to come and make my trip to you. So I, you know, I do want to ask though, so you actually bought this building. What, like, do you want to dream out loud for a second? Like, what are we, what are we doing with it? What's the, what's the thought? What do you think you want to see happen with with it. So not a restaurant now, but nope.

Even though, I mean, maybe my whole community will listen to this and get it, get it that I am not doing a restaurant. No.

Are people asking if you will?

Oh yeah, they're like, yeah, sure. Well, because there's this 4x6 pizza oven in the back, and there would be nothing I would like better than for somebody to sling pizzas, but it is not this girl.

I was gonna say, as somebody that is not Ashley Geigel, like, we're not doing this. No thank you.

Right. Yeah. So the fun facts about this building is that it had been empty for 12 years and the roof is caving or falling in, in the back. There's a hole. We were working on it last month, right? Because that's the other thing too, right? We can only work on it when we can. We have 4 children, they are all in sports. We have our own lives.

So busy. Yep.

So busy. Um, but it was just like he had up and left. Um, like he was open one day and gone the next. So I don't— yeah. I could probably really tell you if I wanted to go back and figure out the exact story of what happened, because again, small town is what it is. But I was in college at the time when he had closed up shop and everything. So he— like, there's dishes still coming out of the dishwasher, tables were set, like it was just up and left. So there's a lot. There's, you know, salt. You think about a building that's been sitting there for 12 years and there's salt packets and there's paper everywhere and then there's mice and then there's critters and then there's all the things. So it has been, um, a process, but I do have this vision and even more excitedly, like, my husband's on board with this vision, um, which is half of, half of the trouble sometimes, right? Um, that I would have I just feel personally that an economic development office should be on Main Street, and you should have that view of a window of Main Street so that you can continue that vision. And, and our Main Street has struggled in the past 15-ish years, right? We're kind of becoming— Murdo's unique because we have 5th Street, which was the old highway where all of the restaurants and the motels went to. Before the interstate was built, for obvious reasons, right? Because that's going to be your attraction. So everything is basically along Fifth Street and our main street has kind of became, you know, the first half is maybe more housing and the second half is more of our utilities, the water, the electric co-op, the bank, the, you know, just these bigger things. And we don't have like that small town charming main street. And I am like, Oh, ever since I took the position, I said that was my goal, was to get Main Street back into, um, a place to be and connect, right?

Like, yeah, actual community could happen there, right?

Yes, yes. So, um, I mean, what better way to do it than buy a building and make something of it? So in the front, my office, and then I would love this area to just be like an open space, very much like the Growing Small Town Studio, but just on like a miniature scale. Whether it might be a traveler needing to come in and just sit and have office calls that day, or our work from home individuals being able to come in and have a space where they can be together but do their work, you know, um, or community meetings. Like, I don't— just kind of just the space that's just open. In the back. I also am very into holistic wellness. And so in the back, I talked my husband into agreeing to let me have a salt cave.

This is why I had to ask, because I knew this. Like, we've talked, right? And I'm like, you get that salt cave in there, I will drive to Murdo and I will sit in the salt cave with you. I love this so much because, again, Ashley, this is one of those things like that shouldn't make sense to anybody.

Right.

And it doesn't have to. Right. And it still can and likely. I mean, you do this, people will come and sit in your salt cave with you. And I don't know if that's the plan is to let— is to make it an actual business or if it's just like, this is my personal use salt cave. Right. Please step out of the premises. I don't know what your plan is, but I love that. I love that. That's to me, that's what makes a community have character.. It's what makes communities feel like home. Like, you'll love Myrtle more. You'll love it more if you put in a salt cave. So this is just, yeah, it's like my favorite little random tidbit about what you wanna do with your building. It's so fun. Right.

And that, and of course, like the area that it goes in, cuz you, I've learned a lot. You have to have like a specific salt filtration system ventilator that goes from outside air. So like that's the part of the building that will need to be rebuilt. Build, um, and everything. So that— I, you know, I keep telling my husband, I was like, in a year, like maybe in a year. We spent, I don't know, 5 hours last month up there just cleaning out the garbage and emptying and, um, doing all that nasty work. And now it's just figuring out what to do with like all this equipment and dishes and this, that, and the other, which honestly, you just get after it and it won't be hard. But I was like, if we get all that done and then we can analyze the foundation, right? So like one month we're finishing cleaning up, the next month we're going to look at the foundation and then we can start construction. And he was like, something like that. So I don't know.

Can I ask how old is your youngest child? Okay, so this is actually just— I think it's beautiful. So my youngest was 4 when I took this on, which was still a little young, I'll be honest. But I think you're, you're also going to be demonstrating a process that other people can possibly follow. And I'm not saying also, like, you don't have to be this, like, you don't have to be like a beacon of hope for everybody in Morocco. I don't even mean that exactly. But I think, I think there are a lot of people listening to this that listen to our show that want and have a dream of buying a building just like we're talking about, right? My building, the the back bathroom, the day that I bought it, it had caved in. The ceiling had caved in because the roof was leaking so bad that it feels like you have that moment where you're looking at it and you're like, there's no way we're ever going to figure this out. I had so many days where I was like, there is no way this is ever going to actually happen. And now I'm sitting in a studio in the space talking about your visit to it. You know what I mean? There's just so, like, the way you're thinking about this, I think, is perfect. It's literally like, take, take every month and just say, what's, what's one thing we want to get accomplished in this thing? And you can take as much time as you need. You know, I— that's hard for people, uh, in community because they want to see things happen really fast. Um, and sometimes it's not fast, right? That's okay too. I think continuing to move it forward is the, is the ticket.

Yeah.

So that you don't totally lose all your kind of momentum, energy, and enthusiasm for it, you know?

Right. Right. Well, and that's, um, I, I, I always say like I'm just doing a lipstick on a pig type situation, but, um, when we got it, when we finally had it in our name last year, was right around like that Thanksgiving, Christmas time, and I told Seth, I was like, I'm gonna go put, um, garland and, you know, battery-operated lights on out on the windows because that will make me happy. And he was like we don't even know if we can get electricity to it because it might burn down. Like, you can't— I was like, they're gonna be battery-operated and I'll only do it certain times, you know, like, um, and so I did. And people were like, okay. And then after Christmas, you know, it comes down, and I was like, well, we're gonna do something for summer, just so you know, a flower pot. And people are like— and so now they know, like, something's going on, you know, whether they knew I bought the building or they didn't. Like, they know that there's something going on. Well, so this, um, homecoming, you know, the, the bows are all the thing, the rage right now. And Hobby Lobby, they had these cute little orange bows, and our colors are blue and orange. And so I went up and I put this bow garland around the door frame of the building. And there's a, a, a guy that's from here but goes to California in the winter and comes back in the summer, and I ran into him at the post office, and he's like, who owns what is that building and why is there bows on it? And I was like, it's me. I'm like, it's me and I put bows on it because I'm so excited and I just can't wait for it to actually be like a storefront that I can be really proud of. And he was like, oh, like, you know, after you are able to like kind of tell them like your thought process and your story behind it, he was like, I'm so excited for you, like, I, I wish you all the best, you know what I mean? And so, um, I Yeah. And, and even he said, he was like, it will be nice. Like, we are grateful for our businesses that are on Main Street, right? But he is like, it'll be nice to have a little bit of that small town charm come shine through with what you're projecting. And I was like, I agree. Like, I'm excited.

So, you know, uh, I don't want us to gloss over any of what you just shared in this story because, um, beauty, even if it seems, you said lipstick on a pig, like even if it feels that way, little additional touches of beauty, it actually demonstrates care, right? You know, and that's, that's how we slowly get better. Like, things slowly can get better. Just improving one little corner, one little piece, making one little thing a little more beautiful. Every little bit of that actually matters. And I love to, by the way, that your real motivation was because you love it, right? That's how it should be.

Yeah.

That's how this should be to me.

Mm-hmm.

So Ashley, I just think you're, I just think you're such a good human.

Oh, thank you.

I do. I just, I'm so, so grateful that Dakota Resources brought us together. I was so grateful for your visit up here. It means so much to me because I literally tell every audience everywhere, like, come and see me. Come and see me in Oaks. I would love to show off our Main Street. You and I had a beautiful little walk up and down our Main Street. We've got a, we've got a fantastic Main Street.

Um, yeah.

What you want in Myrto, we have in my community. And I just think too, that's something we all need to be willing to share and talk through. Like, what's working, what's not working? How do our storefronts look like this? What is it? What is it about our community? Because we are all in this together, right? And North Dakota and South Dakota are way too close together for us not to be buddies. Right. I am proud. I'm proud to know you. And Muro is very lucky to have you.

Well, thank you. Yeah.

And thank you for coming on the show, friends. It was really fun to chat through your journey. You're doing great things.

Thank you. It was a dream come true, honestly. I remember listening to the first episode and I was like, I'll know I'll make it when I'm on that podcast. Done.

Check, check, and check, baby.

I'm not sure I've made it yet, but I'm on the podcast, so you are.

Thanks for coming, Ashley. We'll have you back soon.

All right, thanks.

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