S5:28 - Fostering Belonging and Creating Community with Emma McIntyre

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Our guest on today's episode is Emma McIntyre. Emma McIntyre is back, friends. She has been on our show before, and she is coming to us today to talk about her role as the development manager for Folkways, which is a nonprofit organization located or headquartered in Fargo, North Dakota. And the entire point of Folkways is to create events that inspire and create belonging. There's so many things that this organization does for the community of Fargo that I think every single one of our small towns can and should think about. And in some ways, guys, we can actually, we can do these things sometimes even a little easier. And you're gonna hear throughout this conversation with Emma just like why these things matter so much. And honestly, a sense of belonging, a sense of community, community. Those are the things that keep people in our communities. It's not enough just to get them. It's not enough just to get people to move here. We have to actually create spaces that people want to live in, places people want to call home. And all the work that Emma is doing for Folkways, um, definitely does that for the Fargo area. But you're going to hear specifically how one of their key, uh, kind of flagship programs or events became the inspiration for something here in our community. And that's the other thing I want to share with you as you listen to this. I really urge you occasionally get out of the four walls of your community, even go to a bigger one. All ideas can be replicated, duplicated. Sometimes we have to right-size them, but it's possible. And so enjoy this beautiful conversation with one of the best souls I know, Emma McIntyre. Well, Emma McIntyre, hi.

Hello. Welcome back. It's an honor to be here in Oaks.

I know, and here, here in studio. It's my very favorite thing. The first time we did this, we were just on Zoom.

Yes, which I can't imagine my audio quality was anywhere impressive.

So you know what, you sounded great.

Thank you. You always sound great.

You sound great now.

I sound better now, that's for sure.

Right through my headphones, it's so good. So good. So since, uh, you were with us last time, you had a pretty significant job change.

Yes.

Um, because now you're working with Folkways. Um, so, uh, we'll— we will drop your original episode. I don't remember the episode number. See, this is where a little prep on my end would have been brilliant. But here we are, just unprepped and drinking coffee.

What a friend.

Yeah, we're doing it. Yeah. So we'll make sure we do that so people can go back and listen.

You—

I should give a tiny bit of background. Obviously, in the intro, I will have shared, you know, how you and I came to meet. But you also have a good friend that you come to Oaks kind of often, which is so amazing. So we might actually talk a little bit about that because I think that's something too that people listening to this show should rip off. —yes—and do in their own community. It's so, it's so fantastic. But originally you were one of our OG bus riders. You were on the very first bus tour. I think it was shortly after that that you came on the show because I think we talked about—

It was shortly after the second bus ride. Yes.

If I recall correctly, it was after year 2. Yep, yep, yep, yep. Yeah. Because you were one of my— you were one of our first two-timers on the bus.

It was so an honor and a pleasure. Yeah.

Let me tell you what. It was so fun. So tell us a bit about Folkways. And like what the organization's all about, because that's kind of topically going to lead us where we're going today with you.

Yes, absolutely. So Folkways is a community nonprofit based in Fargo, North Dakota. Our mission is to combat loneliness by creating experiences where you belong. So Americans are the most isolated they've ever been, unfortunately, and we believe that in order to help, um, specifically in the Midwest, the way that we can support our community is by creating experiences that gather our neighbors in shared spaces. And that's the easiest, like lowest barrier to entry way to connect our community. So we host, gosh, I think roughly 30 to 40 community events a year, typically free. Um, they are a farmer's market. So we run the Red River Farmer's Market, which is the largest farmer's market in the state of North Dakota. Really fun. Less of a farmer's market and certainly more of a weekly festival. We host it in our downtown. It's amazing. Amazing. Yeah.

It's literally, that's one I'll just say, that's one we've traveled for. Oh, specifically like driven to Fargo to enjoy it. It's actually, I should just give, like, I don't know if I've ever told you this, but it was at one of the Red River Market Saturdays that, uh, I was sitting on, I, so it was me and the kids, my, my kids. So this was 2, no, like 3 years ago. And I was sitting in Broadway Square and I sent our chamber director like a video and I said, This is what we can create across the street. Absolutely. And then we did.

Oh, and it's a beautiful space.

Thank you. Thank you. But like, that's— I just, I think, you know, you're, you're in Fargo. It would be fair if people were like, why are you talking to people in Fargo? Nobody probably would say that. But there's, I think there's a couple things. First of all, I often think about what can we learn from bigger cities? Cuz there's always things that we can learn and pick up and sometimes it's just Honestly, straight up inspiration. Yes. And that's what happened to me. I was sitting there. I love that you have your booze vendors. Like, you could like stroll around with a cocktail, right? If that's your thing. And it's my thing. So like, it was just so— I was so relaxed. The sun was shining. There were kids playing. My kids were playing. They were just across the way, right? And I thought, this is— there's nothing for me to do except just be in community and be long. Right? Yes. And so I don't know if I'd ever told you that, but yeah, the Red River Market.

Oh God, Alice, I just like love it. It's incredible. It happens from, we do the first weekend after the 4th of July all the way through the end of October. So we're usually rocking 16 summer dates and then we'll do 4 farmers markets outside of downtown Fargo. Yeah. Across the Red River Valley. So we do one in West Fargo, one in Moorhead, and then we'll do 2. At the mall in South Fargo, because that's the venue that's large enough to host us. How have those gone?

Because that's a, that's a fairly new add in the last year or couple years.

The last couple years. We've done the two. So we do a Giving Hearts Day Market at West Acres, and then we'll do a March one. We've recently adapted it to be a senior market. So focusing typically on senior isolation. How do we connect North Dakota seniors that live alone at a higher percentage than anywhere else in the US?

I love that. Yeah. I, and again, like I sit here and I'm thinking like, how could we take that and what could we do? How could we adapt that for Oaks?

Well, and the crazy thing about that senior market, so last year was the first time we ever had done it.

The, the senior one specifically. Specifically. Okay.

Specifically the senior market. And it's so interesting cuz it's just as easy as theming the farmer's market. We're still doing the farmer's market. The added program piece that we included was before the farmer's market started. It was kind of a play on. This specific event happens at West Acres Mall, so we wanted to tap into mall walkers. Yeah. And we hosted a senior social ahead of the farmer's market starting. We'd anticipated maybe 50 people showing up. Um, I wouldn't say that we excel at marketing to seniors cuz typically our events are catered towards families and young adults. Yep. And so it's not our forte. We're still learning how to do it. It's something that we're aspiring towards. Yeah.

Well, like how do we even find them? Exactly. Or get to them, or where are they looking for that kind of information?

That's tough, especially isolated seniors. Seniors? Are they seeking out that information? In the Midwest, we have a lot of pride, and I think a challenge of ours in marketing our mission has been, okay, we combat loneliness and isolation. People don't want to self-identify as lonely or isolated. Right. Which is an interesting problem, but on the senior social, we'd anticipated, I think we planned coffee and donuts for 50 people and had 120 seniors show up. Wow. We were like buying donuts from our vendors. To help meet the demand of all these individuals. And I think the best part about seniors specifically, they're at a point in life where they have authentic conversations right off the bat. Right. And so you'd walk up to them— Don't have time to turn around. Exactly. They're like, I don't have time to waste. I'll tell you my deep, dark secrets.

Oh, I love this so much because I just think, again, you're— well, and let's back up for just one second that you— where and how did this mission originate? Because it's so specific, combating loneliness and isolation are so specific, so important. Yes. But I'll have questions later too about like connecting this mission to funding, because that's a huge challenge. But how, why, why isolation and loneliness? Like, how did this come to be?

So the core of our work is placemaking, and placemaking is creating spaces that cater to humans and the human experience. So instead of just having Broadway Square in downtown Fargo, you're putting up umbrellas so that way people will come and sit and stay, which really started with our co-founders, Joe and Simone, were going to school in Seattle and Minneapolis and had chosen to move back to Fargo-Moorhead and were missing the events and experiences that they had had access to in these larger communities. And instead of choosing to stay in Minneapolis and attending those things, they doubled down on Fargo rallied around a group of volunteers and decided to host Fargo's first ever Red River Market downtown.

Was that, that was the first event? Yeah.

Was the Red River Market is how it started.

Did they, was Folkways official?

Folkways was not official at that point.

Yeah. Yeah. Which also I just think again, like take note friends, if you don't have to go through, I think there's a lot of questions sometimes about that, don't you? Like, should, you know, should we have an idea? Do we go through all these formal hard process? Like, let's be real, organizing a nonprofit. It's not easy. No. And there's steps and you, there's legalities and there's all these things. But so instead find people that, I mean, do you, do you remember, were you a part of the initial one? Were you not?

I was not on the original volunteer team, but I did volunteer as a garbage manager for the farmer's market when it was first getting started downtown. Um, and originally, so I was in high school when Joe and Simone were doing placemaking. Oh, you felt like a baby. Fargo. I felt like a baby. And honestly, without—

you have never been a baby. You You, you, you walk through the world in a very mature and like, I, I just always, I sometimes always think you're like 10 years older than you are, but I'm honored. Yeah, no, it's good. It's such a great quality.

I do think parts of that came from watching people like Joe and Simone before me do this placemaking work. Yeah. And I didn't even know what placemaking was. And truly, I think sometimes it's hard for our region uses placemaking as a buzzword, but knowing what that work does is placemaking is truly combating loneliness and isolation. Mm-hmm. It's just by with all of the recent research around the health implications of loneliness and isolation has allowed us to better communicate our mission and the impact of placemaking to the Red River Valley.

Well, and also in a way that gets people to open up their pocketbooks, because let's be real. Yes. You made the comment earlier that you host 30 to 40 events in the year that are free. Yes. They are free to the participants. Absolutely. We know that they're not free. These kinds of organizations, it takes an incredible amount of organization, plus Folkways now has paid staff. You are one of them. Um, and I just, I just think it's, it's so interesting because people, a lot of times people want to attend things for free. Somebody's footing that bill. Yes. Um, being able to tie this to a clear health outcome kind of strengthens that story, I think. Um, I suppose this is the time. Do you remember which, which year the Surgeon General came out with— was it 2023? Okay. Yeah. So do you want to drop that and we'll make sure we, we tag it too?

But Yes, absolutely. Yeah. In 2023, for those that aren't aware, the US Surgeon General came out with a report on loneliness and isolation with some pretty staggering statistics on things like the average American that is lonely and isolated has the same health implication as those who smoke 15 cigarettes a day.

I have quoted this one several times. Yeah. Just because like It feels like such a soft and nebulous, ambiguous, and just kind of mushy thing to care about. Oh, people are lonely. Oh, people are isolated.

Okay, well, it affects their health to that degree. Exactly. Specifically their heart. It's very impactful on your cardiovascular system.

Oh, that's heartbreaking, isn't it? It is. It is. Like you're actually getting sick of a lonely heart. Yes. Oh, yeah. Okay. So, so, um, so the first Red River Market happens, uh, last year now was your first senior, like, gathering. So earlier you had mentioned that you're, um, you're really good at the public spaces. You're really good at the experiences. The thing that you're now kind of really thinking about is social groups. Yeah. The social groups and kind of individual connection within those things. So, yes, what does that look like for you guys now? Obviously, the senior gathering is, is an element of that or like a test.

Exactly. It was kind of an experiment for us to be able to identify, is this something that people are interested in? And we were talking about earlier, so the U.S. Surgeon General defines belonging as a fundamental human need.

And this was not for record, wasn't it, that we were talking about? Okay, so I just alluded to something. Please, yeah, round this out for our listeners. I just realized we said we were sitting right here, but we weren't recording yet. So, yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

So belonging is a fundamental human need, the feeling of deep connection and experiences with social groups, physical places, and individual and collective experiences. Right. So in the work we do at Folkways, we hit the physical place we're creating, and we're not necessarily— there is physical places like a third space. So you have your work, you have your home, but where do you go outside of those places where you feel connected to your community? Um, we do that in the farmer's market. Now we're limited to doing it. 3 to 4 months out of the year, which is hard. We would love to do more year-round programming and trying to think of some creative ways to be able to fund that and provide that for our community. Um, but the one thing in the, um, social groups, oh gosh, shucks. Now I'm muddying up my definition, but it is the physical places, individual and collective experiences, and then the social groups. Right.

So we know at Folkways, we, you know, you're nailing public spaces because you're giving your identity. And by the way, like, I just think this is important to note, you aren't— Folkways doesn't own a physical public space. No. But you work with partners that help us do that. And I'm, again, I'm just kind of thinking about like what's the lens on this for our communities. It's like you don't have to necessarily own a physical space to do this kind of programming. Yes. But being able to get good contracts in place or whatever arrangements need to be had, um, just thinking what, where physically they have to be coming together.

Yes. Right? Exactly. Okay. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So we know that the, the part of the belonging equation that we can help provide added support on is that social group side. Mm-hmm. Um, and thinking through in the new year, how do we have somebody that is posted up at the farmer's market? You are new to Fargo-Moorhead, you are looking to make friends, and you know that at the farmer's market there's one table of people that you can go and chat with every Saturday, and that's how you make friends.

Kind of, yeah, the newcomer's angle. Yes.

Which is really interesting. Or just sustaining people in the exist in Fargo currently. The, again, with the groups of seniors is we've talked about the idea, do we just host a senior meetup at the farmer's market every Saturday next year? Which I think is a really powerful idea. And based on the activity that we hosted last March at the senior day could really work. And the part about it that's important is it has to be regular because that's where community is built. Is in the regularity of seeing somebody, having somebody that knows your name and knows your face.

How, uh, so what were, what was the result of the senior day? Like, was there anything you were measuring or tracking or how do you, you know, so you had, you more than surpassed your like attendance expectation, but like we were kind of talking about, that's, that's not enough to be like, we should continue to invest in this, right? People show up to it. It's. Are we really impacting people the way that we want to? So what, were there any specific things you were looking at or was it just that much of a test? Because that's fair too.

It was mostly part of a test. We ideally wanted to start something like this at the start of last year, but just weren't able to pull together the capacity to execute on it at the farmer's market all season long. It feels like each year we get better and stronger, but we can only add certain elements at a time.

Yeah. It's not like our team is huge. How big is your, how big is your team?

There are 10 full-time teammates. If I recall correctly.

Yeah. And that's a pretty big team. Again, for anybody listening to this. Yes. Again, we gotta right-size this to our small towns, right? Fargo is the biggest city. Mm-hmm. In North Dakota. What's the population of like the Fargo, the metro, which is what, even if you include West Fargo, Fargo, and Moorhead, is it 250,000? I, that's would've been my, that's, that's the number I think I tend to quote. Yes. Because I think Moorhead's at least 90,000. Yeah. Right. Anyway. Yeah. Like a 200,000, 250,000 people. Mm-hmm. Right. So. Very moderate-sized city on the, on the level, but in North Dakota, the biggest. So for what you guys might need for 10 people, we, we might be able to man it with volunteers. Absolutely.

You know, but a lot of that growth has been in the last 3 years. Our team went from a team of 3 to 4 people to a team of 10 based on just how much our programs have expanded. If you're hosting a farmer's market anywhere else, you might not necessarily be hitting 5,000 people. So those are, those numbers allow us to make sure bathrooms are taken care of and marketing our programs. And it's just grown to such a scale. I think it's important for people to remember though, that the farmer's market started with 12 vendors in downtown Fargo. Mm-hmm. Now we're at 90 or so, almost pushing 100, but that took 11 years to get there. It's not like the farmer's market just started. With those 12 vendors, and I would say even 5 to 6 vendors is a success. You know, it doesn't have to be a large, large-scale event. I think it's an easy thing to draw yourself into attendance to measure success of something. Yeah. But something that we truly measure is actually the dwell time. So the amount of time people sit and hang out. Okay.

So that's something you're actually measuring? Yes. Okay. How do you do that?

Cell phone data is something that we're lucky to have.

Can you tell me the— what company do you use? We use Placer AI.

We're fortunate that our downtown community partnership has a Placer AI license, but I would wonder if you contacted state tourism, if they couldn't help you pull the same numbers as well. I don't think it's something that communities should have to necessarily purchase their own license for.

So I've actually seen, um, I think Placer is amazing. I've seen a demo of it. Uh, the, I'll just say it for, for our little community, the price tag was wild.

It's so expensive. We couldn't afford it ourselves.

And I don't, I don't again wanna like, I'm not demeaning placing, like, no, they have— but I think there's something really powerful about data-driven events in particular, because again, we're talking about something— I care deeply about this stuff because this is how I am wired. Now, if I have to sell this to an analytically driven, data-driven group of humans that deal with public sector dollars, let's say, and I'm asking them to front it or pay for it or sponsor it even. Yeah. There are people that wanna see hard numbers and attendance numbers isn't enough. No. So what can you tell me anything about what your, do you have a, so did you have a baseline? Like what, how did you determine what your goal is for how long you want people to dwell? Which loitering, we, we encourage loitering up in this joint, right? Like, yes, exactly. That's the whole thing. We want people to linger.

Yes. The longer you linger, the more likely you are to run into your neighbors. So something else that we ask at our end of year survey, so we do one final survey at the end of the farmer's market. Market season, and we ask attendees if they ended up running into somebody at an event that they didn't attend with, because that's a great indicator of building community. I did. I bet you ran into so many people.

I ran into like 50. Well, that's so funny, right? We're in downtown Fargo. My kids are like, Mom, you know everybody. I'm like, no, I don't. Not, um, like, but legit, I ran into so many people, and that is, to me, that is such a— that's community. Yes. The event itself doesn't create community. I don't know that enough people really recognize that. Like, what kinds of intentional planning is going into creating collisions between the people that are attending the thing? It's so important because otherwise it's like parallel experiences. Yes. Right? Instead of like joint or communal ones. Yes. So clearly you guys are doing intentional things to build it. So that's one of the things. What, what were you finding with numbers? It's been so interesting.

One of the items— the feedback.

I don't know what your, what your survey looks like, but—

yes. Yeah. Well, so we're finding that 69% of people that come to the farmer's market end up running into somebody that they didn't attend with, which is great. That's incredible. It is. Um, and then as far as dwell time goes, we also use that to tie back to our programming. Are we creating programming that's engaging enough to convince people to stick around longer? Or maybe the speakers were too loud and people didn't end up wanting to stay and chat. Or maybe the weather was colder that day or it was really hot and sunny. So how can we combat that maybe a more uncomfortable experience with putting out more umbrellas? Um, right. Like there are things that you can do to make a space comfortable for others. Small things like you saw, we have alcohol vendors at the farmer's market. Mm-hmm. We encourage people to grab a drink, hang out. We provide entertainment for kids because we don't want your kids to be a barrier in you going home. Like how comfortable can we make the space so that That way you stick around, you linger longer. Well, it's comfort.

And I think, I think, and again, maybe I'm not sure if there's, if there's design, like intentional design planned into some of these things, but there's also things that seem worthy of exploring. Mm-hmm. Right? Like you also have to design it in a way, like the Red River Market, you take up like there, you have to actually physically walk a bit to act to hit all areas of it.

Right. And something you'll notice as we we move the vendors every single Saturday. So you have to walk around the entire event to find who you're looking for, which is something that we get negative feedback on. People are like, oh, I couldn't find the vendor immediately that I was searching for. You did that on purpose. And we do it on purpose. Our vendor fees are extremely affordable, and to prioritize one vendor on a corner booth spot when you know that's the highest traffic is just not fair to them.

I think that's super smart, Emma. I didn't know that you guys did that just because I'm obviously not there every single Saturday, but I think that's really smart. And because there's also a vendor experience, let's be real, like they have to have a great experience too if they're going to want to come back.

Absolutely. We have so many stakeholders in regards to our events where we have attendees and their experience, and then we have vendors and what it's like for load-in and setup and tear-down and making sure that our fees stay nominal. Like we do receive vendor fees, but I think vendor fees are maybe 7 17% of our budget, our operating budget. Yeah. And we fundraise for the rest of it. Mm-hmm. And so in order to maintain affordable rates, we also, um, do not require vendors to be at every single farmer's market. So that requires us to switch up our layout each week because, right, we're dealing with a different number of vendors. They're not gonna just be in the same spot.

It also is so much more work on your team's part. Like, let me just say, I also just, I, I love this because you're, you're, you're sparking in me a few things, but I think about how, uh, especially in, in small places, but I think this happens anywhere, frankly, where you get really used to running something a certain way. Mm-hmm. And you're like, well, it works. And so then you just keep doing that. And so the question is, is this, who is this best for? Is it, and if it's only us and it's not the attendees, it's not the vendors, right? Then, then we're, we're prioritizing our comfort and ease over outcome. And very clearly you're not doing that, which I think is super commendable. But like, I can just imagine the lift involved in reorganizing 90-some vendors every week.

Our vendor team is incredible. Tori and Brenna are just spectacular. They do the layout custom every single week. And then something that Joe and Simone have been really intentional on since the start of the farmer's market. When you come to the Red River Market, you'll notice that our vendors go up the center of the street. And that's to make sure that we're not blocking any of the brick and mortar entry shops. So you can shop on both sides.

Let's talk about that. Like, because there's a real economic impact too, not just to those vendors, but to the entire experience. What has been the biggest challenge related to kind of plopping in other shopping, because like I can, I can imagine some of the pushback you've gotten. Maybe, and again, maybe even the city officials. I saw that, I mean, you were very, Folkways was very clearly in the news not that long ago when you were trying to get a permit. Yeah. Um, so whatever you wanna share about any of that, just in terms of the challenges. Yes. And how you overcame 'em.

Yes. So we, Fargo is interesting where communities that do large-scale farmers markets typically have a space that's created to host those events. Like if you go to Minneapolis, which is a community that hosts a large-scale farmers market every single week, they have, to the events that I've been to, a built-out space that accommodates for a market venue. Now in Fargo, it's like an infrastructure. It's— there's infrastructure in place. There we go. That's the word I was looking No, you're good. Now in downtown Fargo, there isn't necessarily a venue that provides the luxury of something like that. And so our vendors, the absolute rock stars they are, driving from Oakes and Bismarck and you name it, rural North Dakota and Minnesota to come pop up at the farmer's market on a Saturday are bringing their own tents. They're bringing their own tables and we block off 2nd Avenue right in front of our downtown square. And then crossing Broadway into the next block. And we don't block off Broadway. Broadway is still accessible by car, but we do, I think, accommodate space in front of, I would say, maybe 15 storefronts is how I would describe it. And there is a challenge sometimes helping small business owners identify using that as a strength versus a taking away, a taking away of the 2 parking spots in front of your brick-and-mortar building and instead seeing it as an opportunity where you suddenly have have 5,000 new neighbors downtown in front of your storefront on a Saturday.

See, like, for me, I have a hard time with what the problem would be. Yeah. But so what has been an effective way that you've had that conversation? Because this is actually something that's really interesting. I, in bigger, uh, community and economic development conversations, parking is just like always something that comes up and people are like, well, I'm not going there cuz I can't park. And, and what's, what's actually true is that I will park. I don't mind at all driving down there, parking in the tower, and then not having to get back into my car until I'm leaving the site for the day. It's actually how I'd prefer to live. I happen to live somewhere where you almost couldn't survive here without a car. Yes. So how are you— are you doing one-on-one conversations? Are you communicating with a letter that goes out to everybody impacted? What has been your approach and what has has worked for kind of re— maybe reeducation or, you know, helping to change some mindsets about some of those things.

Well, I think something just to frame for people who maybe have never been in downtown Fargo, we're really fortunate that we don't have a ton of big box stores in our downtown. It's a lot of small business owners, which I think provides a really vibrant landscape for our storefronts and also is something that we need to understand that we're not communicating to a marketing team and helping them see that maybe they need to keep their door open on a Saturday so people can see into their storefront versus when somebody walks by a food truck on one side and a waffle shop on the other side, you having your windows open allows them to feel more welcomed into your space versus the food truck that has a front doorstep right across from them. Um, and it's most always a one-on-one conversation that is had with the business owner in encouraging them to to put their front door open, to participate, to put out a sandwich board, or maybe they do a farmer's market special. A great example of this is we have a coffee shop on 2nd Avenue. It's called Youngblood Coffee, and they absolutely sweep on farmer's market days. Just incredible. They had their largest day ever on opening day of the farmer's market this year, which is a direct economic benefit of us hosting the farmer's market downtown.

Well, and it's, so it's literally like There's a few things that have to be in place for that to happen. One, the opportunity, which that's you guys showing up there, which they don't really get to control. But then, like I think you said it earlier, is actually seeing this as a positive thing to leverage instead of something, you know, something to enhance your business instead of detracting from it. Yes. I don't, I can't, I guess because I'm pretty oriented towards like leveraging opportunities, so I can't imagine not wanting to take advantage of that. But I think it's great. To have these clear examples where they're killing it and they have their, like, they could literally show you. Yes. Right, that our sales were however much percent over a typical day. And it's great.

This day. Exactly, it's great for us to go to other businesses and say, hey, Wasabi, for example, we know that Youngblood does great on farmer's market days and here's some things that they do. They put out a sandwich board with easy grab-and-go drinks. They say, hey, here, they have a literal menu on their countertop that says, Fast drinks. Yeah. And it's just all the ice beverages that they can make in mere moments. Yeah. They make sure that they have a screen door that's open and they prop open their front door so it's, it looks welcoming. Yeah. They've got a sandwich board that they put out on the sidewalk. There are actionable, replicable steps that we can apply to other businesses downtown. Yep. And we're able to estimate, there's a really great equation provided by a farmer's market in, I believe, Oregon. Where we can track on the number of dollars spent on the farmer's market is an estimated number of dollars that impacts our downtown. And it's almost like a one for one. That— isn't that wild? It's wild. And the businesses downtown feel it. I've walked up and down Broadway and asked, just trying to be really mindful, especially in the last year we were, um, applying for a street permit on Broadway for one of our events. Yeah. And we got declined for the permit. And so I wanted to go up and down Broadway to truly understand Is there a hindrance in our events for downtown? Like we host these things downtown because we know it's beneficial for us to be in that walkable neighborhood cuz it benefits all the other businesses in a positive way. Yeah. And didn't want, if that narrative wasn't the case, to be— Didn't wanna make the assumption.

No. Right. Exactly. Yeah.

And so I did, I walked up and down downtown and they said that there is a noticeable difference between Saturdays in June and Saturdays in July when the farmer's market is starts, it is a huge driver for our downtown and I think is a part of what keeps it vibrant and allows people to occupy real estate down there. It provides a great opportunity to meet customers.

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Oh, it's so cool. It's so cool.

It's so cool. So, okay, there's a couple other, um, events that you do, Night Bazaar and Chris Kindle Market, right? Yes. So can you give a quick flyover of those two? They are— I've been to all— I've been to all three. Like took my family to, like intentionally went to Chris Kindle. I think everybody should. Um, and then also I've been to two different Night Bazaars. Like I happened to be in Fargo, like I had had to speak at a conference and I was right down there and I, it was just like aces. I loved it so much, but it's so fun.

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm trying to convince more businesses to hop onto the Night Bazaar energy of like host your client event at Night Bazaar. We're already planning all of these programs, like utilize the event that's being created. Yes. This isn't an experience that you have to create for yourself. We're happy to share it with the community. But, um, Night Bazaar is just a really quick overview, is an evening street festival. That we host. It's kind of like a street carnival. We do it monthly and they're all themed. So we do a rodeo one, a Renaissance one, magic, and circus. And, oh, and Galactic Rodeo. We did Galactic Rodeo this last year, which— Holy smokes. Oh my gosh. Talk about target audience in Fargo. I've never seen so many people out in like cowboy hats and chaps and boots. It was so fun. So fun. Um, but it is, it's like a, we call it Cirque du Soleil on the streets. So we have evening performers. The farmer's market is very heavily focused on produce. We want it to feel like you can get all the same items you would generally get at the grocery store. Cause we do food assistance and grocery assistance at the farmer's market. But Night Bazaar is an artist market. Yeah. And it's a way for us to pull in our more creative community for this monthly gathering that's heavily geared around our arts community in Fargo-Moorhead. It's so cool. It's so fun. And we encourage people to show up in costume, which talk about belonging. If you show up go somewhere in a costume as a grown adult, you feel like you belong there. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I know. It's powerful. Yeah.

It's really cool. And then Christkindlmarkt. Ugh.

I know. Christkindlmarkt is a European-inspired holiday market that we do ahead of the holiday season, the weekend before and the weekend of Thanksgiving. And it feels as though you got dropped into a Hallmark movie is perhaps the best way of describing it.

Oh, great. My kids still talk about it, Emma. Really? And we went to Christkindl— We didn't go last year. I don't even think we went the year before. I swear to you again, I keep saying it was like 3 years ago. Clearly we're due. I'm gonna need to come back this year.

You should.

But the thing, there's a couple things that the kids still talk about and it's, uh, first of all, um, it's the fact that part of it is out, like this was when it was at, would've been at the Civic Center. Yes. Right? Yeah. Part of it was outside. Part of it was inside. Mm-hmm. Um, so the outside you had the kind of old Nordic Scandinavian, um, game where you're— you take and you're— Hammerschlagen. Yes, Hammerschlagen. That's what it's called. They still remember doing that. They still remember openly roasting marshmallows out in the square. Like, they— and it was cold. I mean, it was actually pretty cold. Like, we were all bundled up, right? Um, but that was— that too, for me, it ends up So have you ever heard of the Danish word hygge? Yes. Okay, so that's that over, like just all-encompassing, wraps you up kind of feeling of comfort and warmth and coziness. Yes. That's what that whole experience does to me. Absolutely. And I think— And I know that's by design, like it's supposed to create that, but.

Yes, I talk about loneliness and isolation. We are extremely lonely in the winter months. Months, and there are communities in Europe that still gather outside in the cooler— how do we replicate that same feeling of community in the outdoors? And obviously we have the indoor component of it, but I think there's something special about it being ahead of the holiday season. We specifically host it over Thanksgiving weekend, so it allows families the opportunity to show maybe out-of-town family members what Fargo really looks like and feels like. And I would say that's like our best shot at how do we create an Oaks North Dakota feeling in downtown Fargo. Yeah. Of figuring out how to have that like small community, intentional curated gathering, even though we don't have a main street that looks like Oakes, we try to almost create it in the Fargo Civic Center. Yeah.

You did a, you guys do such a great job with it and such effort. I mean, I think I, again, I have been a part of planning and hosting lots of things over the years and it's just, that's such an impressive feat. And I just love so much that you're not, uh, I don't feel like you're trying to dress this up as anything other than this very serious problem that you're trying to solve. Yeah. I mean, I think it's special.

There, it's an interesting dissonance and you come to the farmer's market and you know that it's different than a regular farmer's market cuz you're not just buying your produce and leaving. There's live music and activities and food demonstrations. But it's hard to have the conversation of we do all these really beautiful things because people are lonely and isolated. And it feels like there's a dissonance between our programming and the actual outcomes versus the mission. And it's not like there's actual dissonance because we aren't achieving our goal, but it's just the stark contrast of loneliness versus this beautiful, vibrant community event is sometimes a challenging thing to talk about.

I think, I think too, The fact that you're thinking about that goal all the time, you approach what you put into these events differently because they're attached to and in service of a really clear mission. Yeah. That, and that's really important. I think I always just wanna, there's, there is an intentional mindfulness that Folkways approaches all of their events with. It's not just an event, literally the fact that we're talking about about the, like, the drill down of the isolation, right? That you're talking about this individual and collective experiences. So often I think we just do what— again, we err on the side of what's easier for the people planning it. Well, I fully respect that when everybody's tired and everybody's burnt out, I get that. And I think we're missing the opportunities to sometimes actually put things in with a little more meaning, a little a little more intention, and then track it. Yes. You know, because it's exhausting to host a big thing and really feel uncertain if you met a goal. Yes. Because it absolutely can't just be about numbers all the time. Like, it's got to be about what— because honestly, you might be— some of these things might be literally changing the life of somebody, right? Like, and you're not necessarily going to know that. No, but asking the right questions can help you figure out if you're getting closer, I think.

Exactly. And I will entirely commend our co-founders, Joe and Simone. I think Simone's statement is like, too much is never enough in regards to the small details and the things that we can do to make people feel comfortable at events where instead of just having somebody greeting you at the door and saying, hi, welcome to Crisp Kindle Market and selling you a ticket and maybe they're in like a security vest. They're welcoming you in elf ears and an elf costume, and they're giving away free bubbles to your small child to provide as much magic as possible. So that way people feel comfortable enough to share those stories of impact. Because stories, I think, are the best way for us to be able to calculate the work that we do. Because data, you're right, data only says so much. And we have, we're trying to really hone in on those questions.— that we're able to ask. Right. Yeah.

Like, what are we asking? Yeah.

We're, we are still very much working in that space and trying to figure out what that looks like for us, because there's not a ton of groups out there doing similar work to benchmark off of.

So I want to come back to this because again, I think it's really interesting. Right now I'm literally working with a group of community and economic development people, and we're talking about getting beyond the same 10 people. Like, so when it comes to how do we rethink the way we do events or projects or committees or whatever so that people actually wanna get involved. There's a lot to this. It's very layered. But as I'm listening to you, I do think event design and planning is an enormous part of getting the, getting the right air quotes people to the event that, that it's meant for. Right. And I, it's hard when you, it feels like, well, are events for everybody? It is and it's not, right? Every single one of these things, you have to be thinking about a certain demographic of people that you're designing it for. Um, so what I'm wondering is I'm listening to you because I love that she said that. I love that Simone said that because I, I totally agree. So does every single one of your events have like a core set of feelings or emo— like, like when you're planning it, when you originally planned it, maybe was it like, here are the 3 things we're trying to foster. Was there that level of kind of pre-planning that went into this?

Yes, we do. So we have 6 impact areas that we host our programming around. It is the combating loneliness and isolation, uh, arts access, small business support. Um, but one of our core goals is intergenerational experiences. Cool. Is one of our impact values that we're curating our experiences around. And I think what that looks like for us is can we entertain small children and college students at the same time? Mm-hmm. Because if you can hit those 2 very different demographics that are hard to gain attention for, things like parents and grandparents will fall into place more naturally. Yep. And I think it has had a positive experience on us being able to attract and retain attendees, people going out of their way to make invitations to saying, hey, I want you to come experience this with me. I think the, that's the other thing we're looking towards in 2026 is the power of the invitation. Because us inviting you to attend an event is very different than your neighbor asking you to come to the farmer's market with you. We can only reach so many people on our own. How do we spark the thought for others to make the invitation, not only for us, but for themselves to have that social connection at the farmer's market? Yeah. Yeah.

I think, as I'm just thinking about even your example of, instead of just like the kind of contrasting the welcome experience experience or like the picking up your ticket experience. Yeah. When, when an event, when the goal of the event is belonging, then every single one of those moments is a moment that you can create more belonging. And so then the details become, does it foster more or less belonging? Yes. If it's more, we do it. If it's less, we don't. Yeah. You know, so, and I think, I think that's a way for people to think differently about why the hell are you doing what you're doing? I just think like, It's mindfulness. I get, because that's the thing too, is the reason sometimes our stuff starts to feel tired or boring or nobody's coming, it's because nobody for a really long time has just stopped and asked these questions. Like, why are we doing this? What are we hoping? What, you know, and sometimes if it's a long-running event, you have to go way back to the beginning and say, does anybody know why this thing was started? 'Cause if you can't answer that, then take some time, sit back down, and recast a vision for the thing.

'Cause you're not gonna have the energy to do it otherwise. You're not gonna be motivated to make it what it needs to be.

Otherwise it just becomes like a giant punch list of stuff that has to be done. And again, the other thing that research will really show about this conversation, so there's all the stuff we've talked about with the thing you're actually trying to combat, which is loneliness, isolation, and its incredible effect on our health detrimentally, right? There's also an enormous connection to purpose and belonging and meaningful work when people are connected to things that they feel like they're a part of something bigger than themselves. That's also— it's good. It's good for retention of those people, right? They'll be able to call a place like Fargo or my little town home if they feel that. So we have to create experiences where being a part of putting it on feels like something bigger than just, I ran a booth for 2 hours at a thing on a Saturday. Exactly. You know? And there's just— and people can get— I know that I run the risk of being like a little too mushy and maybe a little too feelsy. But honestly, I think it's about intention. I think mindfulness and intention matters. Absolutely. Especially in creating—

I think the term for it is social capital, people's social capital, which is that invisible thing that ties them to community. We've had some really great I mean, the farmer's market was built on volunteers. Yeah. It was not built on paid employees. And now it's gotten to the scale where we've found that other cities typically provide the infrastructure for a farmer's market. So people often confuse our programming with maybe our city or our parks department. Right. We do not receive dollars for our programming from our city or our parks department. Right. We do receive an in-kind donation for the Civic Center. Yeah. For using that space, which matters, which matters. 100%. And it's a huge impact. We're really grateful for it, but we're having to come up with this programming on our own, which is great because I think that it makes it more representative of our community and what our community needs and wants.

Right. Well, I mean, I think any, any time, and this isn't just like the City of Fargo proper, it's like anytime. It has any kind of directive or authority or influence from the government, it can kind of lose that, like, juice because it has to, you know, it has to meet certain requirements.

Right.

It has to meet certain requirements and kind of the, like, the democracy of it. Like, you know, everything has to be very democratic, very fair. So you can't take as many risks too, I think, a lot of times. Right? Exactly. You guys do some kind of— I wouldn't edgy is a word I was gonna say. It's not edgy in like a crazy way, but you're, you're choo— you're making very clear choices. Yes. About, about what you're choosing to do, to host, to bring in. Um, and I don't know that it would have that same vibe. Like vibes matter. Exactly. Man.

And I think that's what appeals to, that's, I think we get a lot of our vibes from appealing to a college audience. Yeah. Is where the vibes come from. And then the staying in the, like the staying factor in the programming comes from entertaining kids. Mm-hmm. Because if you can entertain kids, you can entertain parents, and you're more likely to entertain grandparents. And because you're providing entertainment, you're appealing to retirees that wanna just sit and hang out. Mm-hmm.

There is something so blessed about going to a thing where as an adult, like a mom, you feel like your bucket's actually getting filled and your kids have a great experience too. Yes. And you accomplish that at the at the same time. That's unique. Like that, it is unique. It's hard to do. Yeah. Because I think if we're honest parents, like we attend a lot of things that were built for our children and we're only there because A, we pay for it and B, we're their transportation. Like we're just there. Exactly. It's not always, we don't always get to take it in as a full experience for ourselves. Yes. Um, and again, that like video that I physically took at The Red River Market, my kids were playing with those giant foam, like, the blue blocks. They are so cool.

They're so cool. I love them so much. Yes. And it's kind of silly how engaging simple, plain blue blocks can be and kids come back week over week and are completely engaged in them because it, there's a lot of research around free play. Yeah. And I mean, the blocks might be the same, but you might meet a different kid the next week that has a different interpretation of the blocks, or— well, that was the thing.

My kids, okay, so my kids are each, they're like about each 3 years apart. Yeah, right. So 6 years between the oldest, the youngest. They— it's already to the point where I'm just like, I can never find anything that they all enjoy, like, you know. But that particular day, they were all playing, and I was just like, heck yeah. So I got my— yeah, I got my drink, and I sat in this one of those big amazing Adirondack chairs, took this little video And then I looked over and they were absolutely playing with other kids. Yes. And it was kids of all ages, obviously kids they did not know because we were there, right?

From all neighborhoods. Yes. From all income levels.

Right, exactly. And it just reminded me that like, it was, I had been having kind of a rough day for whatever reason. And I, again, because I could like feel my way into this for our own community, I was just like, and good prevails. It was like very much, I was having a very, a great existential moment. And I don't know that I ever got to really tell you that. But that just happened at the farmer's market.

I am honored for existential moments at the farmer's market.

That is beautiful. It was so good. Yeah. And I remember thinking, like, see, we can build this kind of thing. And that is always what I want to encourage. I realize, like, I do not want anybody to walk away from this feeling like, well, would not it must be nice to have 10 people on staff? Yeah, guys, it would. But you wouldn't have it either if you didn't need it. And so it's all about where does it start. Like you said, you guys started Red River Market and you didn't even have the nonprofit in place. No. So kind of, I think, you know, it's some of it is looking around and figuring out what do you have that, that you could utilize and who do you know that has things you could utilize, right? And just actually doing a little asset mapping, which would be cool. Yes. But as, as you think about it, because you've been to folks, why don't you real quick before we kind of finish and you give your like final bit, tell my friends about Hallmark weekends. Absolutely. So, because I love this so much and I just think you guys are so precious and I love you so much when you come down. I'm just like, oh, this is so fantastic.

I love it so much as an adult that has, so I've met a lot of my friends in my early 20s working at Emerging Prairie, which is a nonprofit in Fargo that energizes the entrepreneurial community, and that's where Rebecca and I met was because you spoke at Startup Brew when I was working on the Startup Brew team.

Emerging Prairies. Yeah, the Startup Brew experience was absolutely fantastic. We will plug them for sure. I met some incredible people.

The art on my walls is because of Startup Brew, which is just incredible. And I met one of my very dear friends, Hallie, through Startup Brew because she was also working at Emerging Prairie. And when we had shared that you were going to come speak at Startup Brew, she was stoked because she's from Oaks. Her family runs Prairie Pothole Lodge. Lodge, which is in this neck of the woods. Yeah. Uh, Halle came up with the idea. I think this was, this would, this would have been the winter that you, like the same year that you spoke at Startup Brew. And her idea was that we would all hang out at Prairie Pothole Lodge ahead of the holiday season and have ourselves our very own little Hallmark weekend. Like a little Hallmark movie is what it was loosely inspired by. So we would all hang out at the lodge. And her grandma has an industrial kitchen. And so we all brought a cookie recipe and everybody brought a cookie to make and we would do arts and crafts and play board games. And then the running tradition is on Saturday evening, we all come to the Angry Beaver Lodge in Oaks. And it's an absolute blast. And year number one was maybe 8 of us. And we've done this for, I think this will be our 5th year. 5th Hallmark weekend or 4th or 5th Hallmark weekend this year, and we're up to nearly 20+ people.

It's so special. It's so fun. And, and honestly, like, the reason I wanted you to talk about this is because now granted, yes, Hallie has the lodge. Yes. Right. But, but the point is simply like any single person in their community, like our, like our town, I could create a Hallmark weekend for my friends from Fargo. Yes. We wouldn't be able to stay at that lodge, but there's other places we could stay.

You go stay at the Gnome Schoolhouse. Totally. Right.

Exactly. Or we, you know, there's other, there's other Airbnbs in Oaks that like, yes. The point is just create those experiences for yourselves with the people you care about. Like, I, I just think, I think that you are this younger generation, like you guys and your friends and people younger than that. You're already, you already have this like bend towards experiential living in a way that like kind of was lost on the Gen X, the Gen Xers a bit. Yeah. But I think we can learn from you. Like, I just, I get, I just think it's the coolest thing when you guys come and I, it's so fun.

I love it so much.

And the fact that you've done it every year, and again, that there's nobody can argue or dispute the economic value of 8 now to 20 people that don't live in this community. You're coming in, you're spending money that was not generated from this community cuz none of you work here. No. Right? Like create your own little visitorship, like tourist hub. Like that's, Halle just did it.

She just did it. She's the master of ceremony. She doesn't even live here.

You know, like that's the other thing too. Like it's really, we're, we're really super blessed by you guys because none of you live here. Right? No. And we, we get the benefit.

You shop, you, I mean, oh, we've got a whole running list. So we get here on the Friday, we all go thrift shopping downtown, we maybe snag Meg food in town if you're here for lunch. And then we'll obviously go out and eat at the lodge and it's really great. We all split up meals. Halle is incredibly intentional about prepping everything ahead of time. So we spread into teams and teams take meals, but we're always at the lodge. The amount of money we spend on Touch Tunes alone. Yeah. I think it's an economic benefit. Um, it's so good. But I think of like how the impact that Oaks has on our friend group. And when I come here on my own, like today, I have only incredible, just joyful memories. I pulled in and I'm already counting. Counting down the days till Hallmark weekend. I cannot wait. Yeah. But our friend group doesn't hang out all together really outside of Oaks. And so in a way Oaks is kind of our friends community because life is really busy, but this is the one weekend that we all take every year to spend uninhibited time with each other.

It's so special. It's so special. I think I've said that like 5 times, but dang, it is so special.

It's so cool. We're so lucky and we're really grateful that Halle's family for hosting us, but I do completely agree. It is something that you could do with your friends no matter where you're at. And I think it's become such a beautiful tradition. Adult friendships are by nature inconvenient. You have to inconvenience yourself. Heck yeah. To be able to really, like, you, you never feel sad unless you know what happy feels like and you never feel happy unless you know what sad feels like. And I think that we live in such an era now of like protect your peace. But I do think you have to be realistic with yourself when friendships are by nature uncomfortable. Yeah. And going out into your community and being a part of it is naturally kind of uncomfortable. It is. It's not gonna feel perfect the first time. It is. Hosting your first farmer's market is not going to feel comfortable. Mm-hmm. But if you give yourself timelines of like, okay, I'll do this for 6 months. Yep. I'll try to do 3 events a year. And then allow yourself to really evaluate what the impact of that is before you dog on yourself for maybe not going the way that you think it could.

Well, I think you're also setting such a clear example that this is a way for us personally to combat our own isolation and loneliness. Like the idea of what you guys are doing with Homework Weekend. It isn't a fair trade-off to sacrifice your mental and emotional well-being for the comfort of not being inconvenienced. Yes. It's not, that's not a trade-off worth making because it actually is impacting our health in a clear and meaningful way. Yes. So I think it's beautiful to like end with that story about the fact that you guys are doing this in your own way. You're, that's filling that need, that's combating that health detriment at a very individual and very micro level. Yes. But it's just something that if more friend groups would do that, just think of the ripple effect of that sense of belonging. Yeah. I just, it's so, it's so good.

Yes. You need the farmer's market, you need big events and experiences, but what are those ways that you can practice community with your own friends that are—

that need you and you need them? And you need them. Oh, you're such a lovely— I just love you so much. I really do. I'm so thankful. Like, we had such a fun day here. Yeah, like, it was just so, so good. So I— the last thing I want to ask you, um, to kind of leave for our listeners is— I also just think, by the way, this sometimes our show feels very much like people are just peeking into beautiful conversations and I think there's a lot of value in that. Yeah. So it, it's not always like we're like, okay, now here's the value for the listener. But I do, I do, again, we're talking about what does this look like for a small community? I said a place where I would start is just doing a quick inventory and asset mapping. Like what do you actually have to work with and what maybe what are some underutilized spaces that could use a little activation? What would that look like? So that's my thought. Yeah. What would you share with people? Like if you're, maybe you're just, um, just starting out and you don't have a formal group, but you know you wanna do something like this, where should they start?

I would start by asking the 3 closest people next to you what their thoughts and opinions are. Like what they wanna see? Yeah. Or I have this idea, what do you think? Okay. Because people by nature love to raise their hand and help. That was how I built community when I first moved back to Fargo. A lot of my friends had moved. And I didn't know how to meet people my age just outside of chamber events. And so I found 3 people that I was like, you're cool and you're kind of around my age. What if we, my idea to them, and I was going to do it anyways, but I just wanted to get their buy-in. I was like, what if we do a happy hour with young people? Cause I want more young people to start businesses, but I was afraid that they weren't going to do it unless they felt like they had social support for those ideas. I was like, what if we did like a, like a regular, monthly happy hour, like a biweekly happy hour. And I got at least 5 people that said, yeah, if you invited me, I would be there. So I got their commitment. Yeah. Okay. So how did you choose? And you started that? Yeah. And we started that, which is kind of where that friend group that does Hallmark Weekend came from was just this conversation. I got coffee with 5 people my age, 2 people I was afraid of and 2 people that I I didn't know, like not that I was afraid of, but I was like, you're so cool. The idea of asking you this is intimidating, but I'm going to ask you because I think that you would be fun to have in like in this project. And now they're your pals. And now they're our pals. The one gal I get coffee with once a month. We still hang out like once every month. We were doing it bimonthly and we need to be better at getting back to it, but we're all still friends and that's just stemmed from that conversation. But I do think it's important to remind yourself like, again, and we said this, but the farmer's market started with 4 volunteers. It doesn't have to be big. Yep. It can be little. It can be as small as you need it to be to just get started.

And you know what else it can be? I think you kind of alluded to this too, and I think the reason we're sitting in a renovated building that I took on 5 years ago is because I needed it. Yes. So I think it's okay to let your own need lead something like this?

Yes, because there are other people that need the same things.

Yeah, we spend— I think sometimes we spend too much time analyzing what we should do or like how it should look, and we get— we end up taking it macro like way too fast. Yes. And sometimes it starts with what do you need? Exactly. What do you need? How— if you're lonely, what would make you feel better? Because you're more supported and more connected. Exactly.

You're going to pour your most authentic self into it, and people are going to resonate with it. If you're doing something that you're not passionate about, people aren't going to feed into it. There's not gonna be, I mean, they might, but it's harder to get that same level. I can't imagine providing energy for something you weren't really, really into. Yeah, right. I just don't operate that way. I don't either. I wish I could pull energy like that, but I fear.

Can you imagine? Well, it'd be fairly manufactured. Yeah. I mean, it wouldn't be Emma McIntyre energy. It wouldn't be like juicy Emma Mac energy like it is now.

I'm a bad liar, so. You and me, same, right?

Like I can't, I don't pretend well. No, it's just not much of a poker face over here. So Emma, you are such a delight, and the community of Fargo is just so— they are so lucky to have you. I think what is so special about you, um, I'm just gonna brag on you a little bit more here for a minute. Like, besides the fact that you just hold yourself in a way that completely belies your age, like you really do, you have a maturity and a— and it's not a professionalism in like a formal like you're still completely accessible and relatable. Just the way that you hold a room and the welcoming nature that you bring to everything you do is just so unique. You honestly do it better than anybody I've ever met. Like, just for— I mean, in every single person I've ever mentioned your name to— oh, I'm getting emotional— every single one of them says, isn't she the best? And it's cuz you are. Wow. And that's why you're you. And that's why people are finding their sense of belonging in the things that you're a part of because you're showing up that beautifully.

Well, I appreciate you and all you do for me. You're just such a gem. You really are. I would echo the exact same thing right back at you. And I appreciate the friendship that we have because finding somebody that carries a similar energy is Such a gift.

It is. Thank you for sharing it with us today, friend. Thank you. We hope you loved this episode of the Growing Small Towns show. We encourage you to leave us messages at 701-203-3337 and be sure to subscribe to our newsletter at growingsmalltowns.org. In the meantime, Keep doing what you can with what you have right where you are. Your community needs you.

Because we are growing small towns. We are growing small towns. We're right here living our best lives, as crazy as it sounds. But we are growing small towns, growing small towns. We are growing small towns. We are growing small towns.

Thanks.