S5:E16 - What Makes Kids Love Their Small Towns with Carter Undem

You are listening to the Growing Small Towns Show, a podcast dedicated to supporting you, the person who really cares about the future of your small town. We believe when people get better, everything gets better, and our episodes offer the ideas and actions that prioritize people and small communities. Thank you for listening. We're so glad you're here. Well, hey friends, it is the last episode of the first part of season 5. We will be taking the summer off to find more guests and have more cool conversations, and we will come back in September, and we will drop weekly episodes from September through December. So To cap off the first part of this season, I brought on a special guest today. It is my 13-year-old son, Carter James Ondom. And he's a chatty little fella, and I thought it would be kind of fun to ask him some questions about our community, what he loves about it, what he thinks we could do better. He's very opinionated and yeah, I know, I have no idea where he got that from. What I do love though is he's genuinely or generally a curious child. He asks good questions and he's one of the kids of my three that often says, "I love it here so much." Like, "I love our little town so much." And I thought, well, let's find out what he loves about it. And it's really cute. What you'll hear, and again, like, I've been reflecting on this conversation a bit. He really talks a lot about people. And I guess as we, you know, take this pause over the summer and you respectively go back to your, you know, your own communities and summers are just a, I think summers present kind of an unusual, an opportunity maybe for slow, I would say slowing down. Again, if you're like me and you chase children around the countryside or sometimes vacations, you know, if you're lake people or whatever it is that you maybe do, maybe summers don't feel slower. But I guess I'm gonna encourage you as you're maybe going away and going off and doing things more to actually take some time and reflect. And specifically, after thinking about Carter and what he shared in this episode, I really do encourage you to think about people. Let's think about the people that in their own unique ways are making your community great. It's kind of funny when you think about it. I really— people are what this work is about for me. It's why I do the show. It's why I'm passionate about small communities. I think the people make things what they are. In any environment, frankly. And I, again, I know I say it all the time, but I think it's really important. When people get better, everything gets better. And my kid is very clearly picking up on the people that are doing things. He's naming business owners and he's naming, he named a couple of coaches. He name-dropped one of his teachers. Like, it really is about the people. And so think about the people that make your community what it is. As you're going about your day, days this summer, these Dog Days of Summer, I encourage you to reach out to them. Write 'em a note, drop by, say you make this community what it is. 'Cause it did kind of strike me that even though he's only 13 and you'll hear, I try to draw, he's a tangential thinker like me. At one point he goes, "Yeah, that didn't make sense in the context of what we're talking about." just so it's a winding and kind of funny conversation. But you will hear when he gets passionate what he's passionate about. And again, they are— they're our future. That's all of us that are doing work that's related to community development of any kind, really. That's who we're doing it for. And I always think it's fun, like, let's give these kids a platform and a voice. And so I chose to, to bring mine on and give that opportunity to him. So I hope you enjoy this conversation with with my son and think about what it means for your community. How are you bringing your youth into these conversations? What can you take away from what you hear from him that would have some meaning and purpose for you in your work? Thank you for being a listener. Thank you for joining us on this journey. I love, I love this show. I love this medium. I don't know what would have to happen for me to quit. There's probably something, guys, let's be real. But I, it's just such a, it's such a fun way to get to connect with you. And all of you that reach out, tell me about your communities, that give me ideas for people to bring on the show, please keep that up. We're gonna be spending our summer having more of these conversations so that we're ready to hit the road, hit the ground running in September with the second part of season 5. So as always, thanks for being, thanks for being here and keep doing what you can with what you've got. Right where you are, because your community needs you and you're the only one that can do it your way. Okay. Enjoy this episode, friends. Hey, Carter.

Hi.

Welcome to the podcast.

Okay.

The proper answer is Thank you, Mother.

All right.

Thanks for having me. That's what most— most—

that's what most people do.

That's what most guests with good etiquette and polite manners, that's normally what they say.

Well, being a 13-year-old boy, I don't know proper etiquette.

Or you don't have any polite manners?

I didn't say that.

Well, it sounds like we should work on that.

I didn't say that.

Carter Undum, welcome to the podcast.

Hey, thank you. Thank you for having me.

Thank you for having me, Mother.

Wow.

Okay, in real time we're learning things, huh? Paula Jensen. Okay, so you're sitting across from me in the podcast studio. You and I are now recording the final episode of part 1 of season 5 of the Growing Small Towns show. How's that make you feel?

5 seasons? That, that's, that was my original thought. 5 seasons of time talking to people. Yeah. How long are the episodes normally?

They range. It depends. Sometimes I think the shortest one is in the 20-minute, like 20-25 minutes. Sure, sure. Usually we carry on for closer to an hour. Hour-long episodes are common. Get up on your mic.

I am on my mic.

There, that's better. We want Brody to listen to this and be like, ah, Karter was crystal clear.

Who's Brody?

Brody Mueller. He is the owner of Pheasant Canteen Studio and he's our podcast producer.

Hi.

Yeah, cool, right?

All right, let's talk about what we're gonna talk about here.

Oh, okay, just diving right in. I love it. Okay, so this show is called the Growing Small Town Show. I know. Yeah. Do you know what I do?

Not really.

Also, just quick note, logistics. Drinking Coke before hopping on a mic.

It's okay, it's not that big a deal, bro. I tried.

Don't call me bro.

I'm sorry.

Oh, you are being such a 13-year-old right now. Okay, okay, so tell me, what do I do? What do you think I do for a living?

You help small towns. It's in the name.

Yeah, okay, expand, expound upon that, son.

Uh, you have a building that, uh, we do have a building.

We're sitting in it, right? We're in the podcast studio. Yeah, we are.

Good observation by me. And, uh, we— you, uh, I don't know. What do you do, Mom? What do you do?

Oh, this is funny. Well, I speak, I go and I have a message that I like to share with audiences.

I know that.

Okay, why didn't you say that?

I don't know, I didn't think of it.

Are you feeling pressured?

Yes.

Okay, I'm not trying to pressure you. I'm not sure this isn't a gotcha moment. Okay, I literally, I was just wondering what you know about what I do because I, so on this episode throughout this season, um, not episode, podcast, on the podcast throughout the season We've had all sorts of different guests that have been on the show. And we talk about topics that impact small communities and the people that live in them. So there were these awesome guests named Amanda and Greg, and they talked to— no, Amanda Gregory is her name. Amanda and Joe, sorry, Amanda and Joe. Please quit drinking your Coke. You are such A poor guest.

I'm fine.

If you belch into the microphone, you're too far from your microphone. Oh, you're staying off the mic in case you burp.

Okay.

This is ridiculous. Okay. Amanda and Joe came on and they talked about manufacturing and they wrote a children's book to inspire the next generation of people getting into manufacturing. So that was kind of cool. Yeah. We've had people, Karen was just on. We talked about having a community center.

Karen.

Her name, you don't know her.

Oh, was that even like our great aunt Karen?

No, great aunt Karen has not been on the podcast. This could be a shout out to great aunt Karen if she wants to come on. Yeah, get on the mic please if you're going to speak. If you're going to speak, you got to be close.

Karen and Jeannie, shout out to the grandmas of the family.

So the Karen I was referencing, she has a cool community center where kids run the coffee shop that's in this kind of Uh, it's like a teen— it's almost like a teen center. It's really cool in Frazee, Minnesota. So we have people on and we talk about stuff that has to do with small towns. The goal is to— honestly, you know who I think listens to the show, Carter? People that want to have cool stuff in their towns, like people that care about their community, like us, right? Okay, so that's what you and I are going to talk about. You're You've already named and, you know, aged yourself here. You were a 13-year-old boy growing up in Oakes, North Dakota, town of 1,800 people.

Really? There's only that many people?

Yeah, not even quite.

I swear there's more.

Well, we're a big little town, I think, in spirit. But yeah, 1,800.

I think let's just start right into it. I'm just saying. Do it. The thing I like about our town above other small towns around closer to us— I'm gonna take Lamour, for example.

And you're gonna call out neighboring towns as to why we're better? Okay, well, we try not to do that on this show. Well, how about we just— we can, we can edit it out. Um, depends on what you're gonna say. What were you gonna say? What do you love about— what do you like about our town? What do you think it has?

Our town has a lot We have a, um, we have a younger generation of people coming to this town, like the Butcher Block.

Okay, business owner, young business owners.

And, uh, Haley Visto for the wine, for the vineyard.

Her last name is Mowen now.

Sorry.

I know, it's okay. She knows who she is. We'll shout these guys out too. We'll We'll put them, we'll put the links on the show notes so people can follow along.

The Murphys, they made the movie theater, which is really awesome, especially that we're living above the movie theater. We are temporarily living in an apartment above the movie theater, and it's really awesome that what they did, because the old guy didn't have a lot of spirit, I would say. He didn't have a lot of old guy, like the older guy that owned it.

Wasn't an older guy that owned it?

I'm saying like the old— the previous—

the previous owner. Again, we try really hard not to—

just didn't have a lot of spirit.

Well, no hate, but okay, you can, you can, you can say that. It's absolutely an opinion. What I will say is you have no idea what it's like to own a business, let alone a movie theater. And let's just also call out, especially during COVID it was a really tough time for movie theater owners around the country, no matter small town or not.

But shout out to the Murphys for being awesome.

They are awesome. And that doesn't mean that the old or former owner was not awesome. That's, it's just important to note. Yeah.

13-year-old. I'm trying to teach, by the way.

That's right. You're a 13-year-old child and I'm trying to teach you the art of diplomacy intact.

Uh, shout out Brittany. Oh, sweet. Brittany Quan is her last name.

She's related to the Quants. Hardy is Brittany's last name.

All right.

Yep. What do you love about Brittany's business?

Awesome building.

Cool, cool building. The building was cool though before she even got here, right?

Uh, awesome. I love Sweet Treats.

Mm-hmm.

She's an awesome dude, woman.

She's pretty great.

She's awesome.

Mm-hmm. What is like the staple that we get there all the time?

Uh, we get snack boxes and glazed donuts.

Okay.

And, uh, and we get a Rite Shock on her wall that has this huge shock board.

I was thinking about her bread. Her sourdough bread is like a staple in our house.

We do.

There again, sweet treats and snack boxes. The mind of a 13-year-old. And glazed donuts. Okay, yep, those things are— so those are the people. Like, so that's one of the things you love about our town. You think that there's, um, oh, there's kind of a youth— there's a youth in the, um, business ownership.

The tea shop.

The tea shop.

That lady who runs it, do you know her name?

No, but Taylor is her name.

Ellie Klein also with her, uh, acai bowls.

Yeah, right, smoothie bowls I think is what she calls them too. Yeah, right, feel good, feel good foods. And then Wild Wolf Boutique is the other thing that you were just talking about. So we're gonna, we're gonna call all these out on that because we'll get it too later. Speaking of, speaking of tea, let's go get one later.

We could, let's go get some food later.

We can, we can.

Okay, Heather Roney.

Heather Roney.

I love Sweets and Stories since I was a little kid.

Sweets and Stories is a staple in this community. Independent coff— or independent bookstore, which is not common. I realize the books are not the thing you love the most. What do you love the most?

I love the ice cream and the sub sandwiches.

Yeah.

And the root beer.

We now eat footlong sandwiches.

I have since I was 7. Let's be honest.

By we, I mean you.

Yes. Right.

Okay, so let's move off of businesses.

Kelsey Broman, the last one.

Okay. Yeah. Sorry. You're gonna just keep shouting 'em out.

I love, I love her, uh, preschool.

Yep.

Awesome. My little sister went there. I didn't get the chance to go there sadly, but when I was younger, she had the coolest place that I even liked hanging out in when I was like 5, 6.

Yeah.

It was awesome.

She does a great job, runs a preschool and a, uh, daycare with her parents. And then next to her preschool on Main Street, an indoor play area called Sunnyside, her indoor playground.

Oh yeah. That's the thing that we like doing. It's all separate.

Nope. They're not the same thing.

Oh yeah. But like she lets the preschoolers go in there sometimes.

Sure. But you can have birthday parties there, that kind of thing.

And she's awesome.

She is awesome. She's awesome. So yeah. Okay, buddy, you've called out a few of the people that you know. And then again, because I think it's important, there are so many business owners in this community and everybody that owns a business deserves our love and shoutouts, right?

Yes.

Um, you're just kind of identifying the ones that you love the most. And that's great. That's fine. Cuz you're 13 and you're here. I invited you here so you can talk about whatever you want. What else? Tell me what else. What else do you love about living in the park? Uh, which park?

The park that's right next to Sweets and Stories. That just the new, the new, the newest park. And it's gonna be awesome. As soon as the grass grows, it'll be It's gonna look really nice.

Do you know what the park is actually called?

What?

It has an official name.

What is it?

Union Square.

Union Square. I like that.

That's groovy, isn't it? Yeah, the community voted on it.

That's like—

yep, we had— yep, the community offered up ideas. Union Square was the winner. What do you like about the park? Our listeners— our listeners—

fancy. It is.

What's fancy about it?

I like how Uh, Rhett Miller, uh, my Babe Ruth baseball coach, he did an Eagle Scout project and made the walkways. That was awesome. Making the stage, all the construction men that did that.

I was also a Girl Scout project. Did you know that?

No, I did not.

That was Molly Sitzler's Girl Scout project.

Shout out Molly Sitzler.

Shout out to Molly Sitzler. Yeah.

I like—

There's, there's, we gotta call out all the Scouts now just because you started down this path.

I'ma say All of sports instructors. I'm gonna go ahead and say football, basketball.

Oh, now you're on to— okay, can we go back to the park quick?

Oh sure.

Megan Miller.

Oh yeah.

So Rhett and Megan are brother and sister.

I know them.

Yeah. What you do?

Yeah. Megan got— honey, you're gonna know Megan graduated this year.

You're gonna know all of the people I mentioned. Yeah. So Rhett did his Boy Scout project for the paver patio. Micah Monberg did the fence.

Micah.

He did the fence.

Cool. I like Micah.

Right. Uh, Megan. Did the, uh, no, she did the seating.

So like the little, uh, picnic tables, the picnic tables and the benches.

And then Mallory Domini did the landscaping.

Good for them.

It's, it's groovy, isn't it?

They're that, that I love that project. It was, it was a beautiful space and I'm happy. Who was the painter's name again that painted it?

Lauren Starling.

Lauren Starling, if you can hear us, I'm happy to say that I really like the art style. I liked the second kind. We— when we voted on the three, I like this, the second one.

But your favorite didn't win.

My favorite.

My favorite didn't win either, but I really love how it turned out.

I still really like this one. This was my second favorite.

Yeah, so just again to kind of round this out for our audience, um, we hired a— because these The, the murals that you're talking about are enormous on the sides of the walls in the park. So really, really, really big, uh, public art installation. So we worked with Lauren who was out of the Fargo area and she, we knew we wanted abstract because the wall texture was too rough to do anything too like photorealistic. And so we worked with her, she mocked up 3 different distinctly unique abstract designs.

Yeah.

And then we put them forward to the community and let the community pick their favorite.

Mm-hmm.

And which is also also really a fun way.

They— what she did was awesome, and we would like her— I would like if she came again, did another thing.

Yes.

You know what I was thinking of?

You were thinking of another something?

Art project?

Yeah, shoot, go for it.

Uh, I'm gonna go ahead and say this.

You can go ahead and say it.

I'ma say Hockenberry Park could use a really cool— they have a lot of space They have a lot of open grass field. And do you know, I always envisioned since I was little, a basketball court with a cool painted court. And I thought Lauren could do something like that.

Mm-hmm. That's right. That's your idea.

I thought it could be a good idea.

Do you think we need an outdoor basketball court though?

We've got, all I'm gonna say is that the school has, is old.

It's no, an older facility. Yeah.

It's an older, it's an older thing. There's a lot of cracks in there. There was no painted.

Oh, you, that's fine. Specifically what you wanna see is kind of a cool painted court.

Yeah. Like the Bockeys, like what they had on their front yard.

Yeah. I, that's just some neighbors of ours.

I always thought, mm-hmm, it was not a wasted space, but like there's something cool we could put there if it was like another set of picnic tables.

I thought, okay.

Like another place like that. Cuz there's a whole lot of room there.

Yeah, there is. But it's also one of the only parks with that much open grass.

You're right.

So, you know, things to think about. Okay, Carter, let's talk about, uh, what you think— what, what do you wish was in our community that's not? Like, um, what would you really like to see?

Sad that the school is shutting down some sports and some extracurricular activities.

Okay.

Golf and drama were the first two to have cuts unless they make some money this this summer.

Okay, so let's— we can, we can dive into that, uh, a little bit. You and I have not spoken about this at all, so this is a new conversation. I actually just—

in my student council meeting, she said that there are some— the school is planning— they wanted— they're gonna cut those two unless they make a bunch of money. Uh, I know golf is set at $8,000, $8 grand for their money.

That, you know, that that's what they have to make?

Yeah.

Okay, well, we're— I'm not gonna fact-check any of that because I don't know if that's true, but that's That's what I heard.

That's right.

Okay.

Um, there was a new thing that they said that all of the leftover money that is in these, uh, sports accounts are all going to the school at the end of the year.

Okay.

And that— and I was— Mrs. Moroti, my science teacher and our student council, uh, associate, like, advisor, she was talking to our activities director, Robin Paul, and she was saying that she was like in tears about because she doesn't want to lose sports and our just school can't make enough money to keep them.

Right. So let me ask you this. How common do you think this is?

I think it's gonna be more common as the time goes without our, without our school being—

not just our school, not just our school, but we're talking like, cuz again, like people that don't live in this community listen to this show. In fact, more than, more than people that do probably.

Sure.

So what do you think? Well, and then I agree. Um, and I just heard about that today. So you and I hadn't even had a chance to talk about it. I don't wanna see any programming cut from a school. Um, I don't wanna see sports cut. I certainly don't wanna see the arts cut. Um, you and I go toe to toe on this all the time. We need kids in music, we need kids in drama, we need kids in some of those non-athletic extracurriculars. They're really, really important. Um, yeah. Yeah. So can we like go on the podcast officially and say that you're gonna keep playing the saxophone?

No.

Come on, cut it. No.

Go on.

Okay. Well, that's something that's weighing heavy on your heart as a student. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Okay. How about from the broader community perspective? What do you wish Oaks had?

From a community perspective, I always thought that we could use, like, it's— I always thought that we had a really cool area. We have a really cool landscape. Like, we're in the middle of the Great Plains, about. No, not middle. We're on the far— upper mid part of the Great Plains. Anyways. Yep. So I always thought that we could have a campground.

Oh, okay. You want a big campground in Oaks or in the Oaks area?

Like I was thinking, not really out, out by Grandma's old farm, which is, uh, west. Yeah, west of town.

It's northwest.

Yeah, northwest of town about. And, uh, I always thought there could be like, you know, Little Yellowstone, I always thought we could have a really cool place where we could just have a little stream going, have a little fire. I always thought, I love camping, I love fishing, I love being outside, and I always thought we could use our landscape to do more of that.

That's a good idea, Carter. I'm going to ask you to sit a tiny bit closer to your mic for me. Okay.

Is this close enough for you?

We don't need ASMR business happening here. I know, but I know you love it. That's a great idea. That's a great idea.

Okay, I always thought that we could use something like that.

Yeah, yeah. What else? Um, you've traveled a bit. You've traveled a bit. You've gone places. I took you to Japan.

That was a very fun trip.

It was an amazing trip, wasn't it?

Yes.

What, if anything, do you feel like you— what makes you appreciate home? Like when, when you come back from traveling like that and you get back to Oaks, to our little town.

Say this.

Yeah, I love that you keep saying, I'ma say this.

I'm gonna say this.

Uh, say it because you're on a podcast with a mic.

One of my favorite— I'm taking summer for example, like no school, this is my fun time thing to do. I want to come home and I want to go to baseball and I want to go to the pool. And speaking of the pool, we are having a lifeguard issue at— in our— in our—

I think we're going to remedy this issue. I feel good about it.

I really hope we do. We're trying to convince our oldest— your oldest son, my older brother, if he could go be a lifeguard.

He could be a part-time lifeguard. Lifeguarding was my— one of my favorite jobs of all time. Yeah, I love it.

As soon as I turn 15, I'm gonna be a lifeguard.

Okay, you'll be a great lifeguard.

I already go to the pool like every day, and we have a—

we have a fantastic outdoor pool in this community.

We do. It's— we're super special that we do.

We are super special. We're super special. I know, I know, I agree, I agree.

It's— yeah. It, uh, it's one of my favorite activities to do. And you know what I thought about what we could do with the park?

Which park? The Union Square? Union Square.

Do you know what I think we could do? What? I think we could have an outdoor movie there.

We totally could.

Outdoor screen showing, maybe.

We totally could. I always, I always think there's a chance we could make that happen this summer too.

It's like like in the movies, you know, they have like this huge screen, people pull up behind, pull up in their cars and just sit in the back of their car watching the movie.

Be the way they watched movies, it was called a drive-in.

Oh man, a drive-in sounds so much more fun.

Movie theater.

Okay, I mean, going to the movie theater was fun too, but like just being like outside and like, because I love, I love being outside and I just Like, one of my favorite activities to do with my friends is just go have a fire when it's like dark outside, go to the lake. Oh my goodness, I, I'm such a sucker for fishing, swimming, being outside, having fires. Oh man, I love, I love our outdoor activities.

The Growing Small Towns show is recorded locally at the Growing Small Towns podcast studio located in Oak Brooks, North Dakota. It's produced by Pheasant Canteen Studio in Aberdeen, South Dakota, with marketing support from Cassidy Johnston in Canyon City, Colorado. Our intro music was created and produced exclusively for Growing Small Towns by James Bergman, singer and songwriter from Fargo, North Dakota. Local and small, it's what we support and it's who we love. Get your community a shout out on the podcast. Call 701-203-3337 and share your small town success that you just don't feel is being celebrated quite enough, and let us shout you out. You can also share your biggest people challenge, and we'll dedicate an episode to offering ideas to help. Hell, you can basically tell us anything and we'll do what we can to answer. We can't wait to hear from you. Today's small town shout out are the combined communities of Chamberlain and Owakoma, South Dakota. They have a trails coalition in their community and they are building their very first bike-optimized trail. The idea of what both walkability and a priority for bike riding isn't always prioritized in small communities. So way to go, both the communities of Chamberlain and Owakoma, for getting out ahead of the curve on this one. We love to hear it. So what do you think about North Dakota in the winter?

Well, we've had— I really, really like snowbusters.

Our local— the local Snowbusters. Shout out to the Snowbusters.

I think that's a very good idea, that what they do. They didn't— did they have it last year?

I think, I think they did. It was just on a frigid cold day. Yeah, they can't, they can't, they can't affect the weather, right?

I wish we had a ski day. I wish we had somewhere we could ski.

It's a lot of effort. So the closest is Fort Ransom.

I know.

Thrill Hills, which we should shout out them because I want, because I want people from our— from all over state to come and hang out in Fort Ransom. It's so cool. Oh my goodness. So the tubing hill and then the— this actual ski—

what's the one place that we went to last? Was it not Shibuya? That's in Japan. Uh, the— like the market.

The market.

I don't remember where we went with Grandma and Brinley.

Oh, oh, Savaka.

Savaka.

Yes. That's in— I'm sorry. I was really trying to show— I was trying— that's in Fort Ransom also. Yeah.

Yeah.

That's in the fall.

Yeah. It's, it's like there's a bunch of markets where you get to go buy stuff and people—

it's a vendor show, vendor market.

And it's awesome.

Mm-hmm. And you get all your fresh food.

Fried food.

Yeah. Monkey balls.

Hot monkey balls.

Hot monkey balls.

Yep.

That's it. Who doesn't love hot monkey balls?

And like fresh squeezed lemonade. That's like $5.

Yes.

Oh, speaking of hot, hot monkey balls and vendor food, uh, Irrigation Days.

Yeah, is that a— is that a big fave?

Oh my goodness, it is my favorite.

Of course it is.

Shout out to everyone that works with Mac Daddy's because they have the best mac and cheese ever. Oh my goodness, every— every Fort Ransom, you gotta go get some Mac Daddy's. I don't know if everywhere—

I don't know if they're coming this year for vendors. I'm not sure. I don't No, Kasha would know the chamber.

No, there's the chamber. They know. And the people that work with like the outdoor attractions that we went to, like the little fun ride.

What are you talking about?

Like the little spin thing that like you get strapped in, you spin in the circle. Oh, you weren't even at the last 3 irrigation days. You wouldn't know.

I know, it's been a rough couple of years. I missed it.

2 years ago they started with this outdoor attraction that they basically had, and you just like, it's like a little mini roller coaster ride and you like spin around in a sphere and go upside down. And oh, it's not like big though.

It sounds disgusting. Oh, it's awesome.

Yeah, it sounds awful, but they have a time limit. You gotta wait 30 minutes after you take a ride before you can do it again. Yeah, I know. So me and one of my buddies, that feels accurate. He set a timer on his phone, just went.

Good grief.

Oh my goodness, I love it. That's awesome.

Okay, you're, you're a, uh, Carter Random, you're a thoughtful little child. So I thought it'd be kind of fun because I think I want you to remember that people that aren't in our community are listening to this.

Should move to Oaks. Just gonna say it. If you live in Fargo, if you're ever looking for like a weekend out, uh, June 15th, isn't it, for Irrigation Days?

Uh, yeah, second, second weekend in June.

Second weekend.

It's always the second weekend in June. It's 53rd annual this year.

Get some MacDaddy's. Just get some food.

Well, if they live in Fargo, they could probably get MacDaddy's other times.

Hot Cheetos on top. Mm.

Oh, okay.

So good.

Yeah, right. So you just gave a bacon bits. You just gave a big shout out to like Fargo people. Fargo people, come on down, which is fun. I love that. But what about all the people that are living in other states that are listening to this? What do you want them to know? What do you think? Let me just tell, like, one of the things I would love for you to help them think about is how do they make their communities friendlier for people your age? You're 13 years old. You're actually at, I think, one of the most challenging ages to kind of figure out stuff to engage you with or like stuff to entertain you with. Because like little kids are— there's a lot of little kid events, right?

Like Waze.

I know.

I'm a pretty sucker for little kids.

Okay, well that's fine. But then you've got high schoolers and they can kind of make their own stuff.

Yeah, like—

and then this tweener age is really ch— it's really tricky. Right? So talk to me, Goose. What do you got? What do you, what do you got? What do you think small town people, if they wanna bring cool stuff to their town? Yeah.

If I was gonna make like Love on the Spectrum, like a little spreadsheet about me, it would probably, it would probably say my name is Carter Undum. I love eating Mac Daddy's mac and cheese and I don't like loud sirens and I don't, And I don't like people on their phones all the time.

I love that about you. And that's, again, I've talked about love on this spectrum.

My phone all the time and it's bad and I hate it.

But okay, so I'm sorry, what does that have to do with my question, sir?

Can you stay? Anything?

Okay, how about we come back?

This is my interview, Mom.

Let's circle back up to the question.

Lock it in.

Lock it, lock in, Carter.

Lock it in, Jen.

Okay. Some TikTok business happening. Uh, answer the question.

Hmm.

What do you think people that wanna have cool stuff in their communities for people your age, what should they be thinking about or what should they do?

Cool opportunities that aren't a really big thing here. First thing I thought of was a pottery class. I don't know why, but I always think something new and cool and kind of a little bit weird at first, it'll be good because you'll be like, it'll push you out of that comfort zone that you want to stay in, and it'll make you think in different perspectives and different ways, and it'll make you understand, uh, where other people are coming from, especially where like when you're talking to someone that wants to be a professional potter, to make professional art. They will be like really, really fantasized by this young adult that wants to take part in this cool new thing. And just if you offer these opportunities to kids, not just kids, like from like, I would say from like 12 to like even 16, anywhere in there, even older, just offer these new cool things to these adults, give them a little bit of— to these young adults and teenagers, and give them a little bit of leeway. Like, you, you don't want them to see the leash. Like, I'm kind of off topic.

Holy smokes, I was, I was just listening. Okay, first of all, you used a word inappropriately. You said they fantasized by them. I don't— what did you mean by that? Oh, and then you take a giant drink of Coke before you go to answer my question. You are the worst podcast guest I've ever had.

I am not that bad, let's be honest.

Okay, get up on your mic, tell me what you meant, because you actually said a lot of very— oh, that was your stomach. That was, that was literally— listen, everybody, we're not editing that out. I'm not editing it out.

Get it out of here.

Okay. Listen, you actually said a lot of really, a really, a lot of really great things. So you were talking about basically, I think I'm going to try to summarize some of what I heard you say.

Can I restate that?

You can restate some of it, but the couple things that you said that I think are worthy of just like reiterating is you said that it's basically exposing people, whether it's young adults or even older people. It doesn't matter, right? If it's something new, there's value and trying new things.

That is exactly— and when I was talking about like, you don't want them to see the leash, that didn't really make sense in the context.

It didn't, but I would love to hear what you meant.

Don't baby them. Okay, let's— yes. Yeah, especially at my age. Like, everyone— like, they don't see me as a teen, they see me as this young kid.

Who's they?

Some older people that should not be named.

Oh, okay. Adults. Just adults.

Some, not all adults. Like, I'm gonna take Britney for example. If I went over to Britney's and be like, let's make a cake, or like, I don't know, like, like something like that. Like something on the lines of let's, let's do something. Let's bake something. Britney would be like, hell yeah, let's go do it.

Yeah, that's Well, I prefer you not. Um, prefer you not.

It's okay. Anyway, she would not— she would not like baby me.

She wouldn't treat you like—

she would treat me like a co-worker and not like an— right. Okay. It— I want new things to happen, but I don't want someone hovering over me all the time.

Okay, I think there's— I think there's wisdom in that for us to take away, like, as adults. I, I think one of the things that we struggle with adults sometimes, not just like raising kids, but when we think about all the adults that you interact with in our community, I think sometimes we wanna tell you exactly how to do things just because we've lived longer. Right? So sometimes there's this, this tendency for us to be like, you're not doing it right when really there's room that we could make for you to figure out your own way. Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Does that feel accurate?

A little bit. Um, that's like my era of life, like Gen Z, like that's what I am. I like— that's my generation.

This is true.

We don't like to be told what to do and how to do it. We kind of like to figure out how to do it. Okay.

Do you know, I think though, honestly, most people are like that. Most people don't like to be told what to do exactly, how to do it.

I know.

Like, the idea of being hovered over, people don't like that.

Like, that's like, it's you. There's a, there's a fine line between instruction and then just doing it for them.

Fair.

It's like, yep. If like, let's say I'm gonna make a cake and you're helping me.

Why are we making so many cakes?

I don't know. Anyway, if like, let's We're making— I don't know. What do you want to make?

We can make a cake. It's fine. I just thought it was funny.

Patty cake, I guess.

Patty cake.

And so you make the dough and you start the oven and you put it in and you make the frosting and then all I do is put on the sprinkles at the end. That's not teamwork.

Got it. That's fair. That's fair, buddy. I struggle with it sometimes. It's hard for me to— but I think that's something I'm— again, I'll try to draw some Um, overall correlations here. Can I just real quick, I think overall in small communities we have a really cool opportunity to make the leash longer.

Yeah.

Um, where we don't have to hover over you quite the same because there's, there's the, the, the thing, one of the things that's very cool about raising kids in this community, and again, I think this is a small town thing, uh, largely. It's that you get, you get to explore a bit more with the boundaries of like your freedom because you're safe for the most part. When you leave, you know, my, our house or our home, you're safe. And there's something very, there's something really special about that. It's not just, it's not just safety. That's the thing. It's the fact that you get to explore and you get to kind of go on adventures where we're not hovering over you 24/7.

Sure.

And, and that's great because you learn a lot of stuff when you have to get yourself from point A to point B and you're doing it on your own or with your friends. Yeah. Right.

I know. Like you get so much more experience from you actually doing it.

Yes. Yep. Instead of being told what to do, you get to actually try.

Like, I'm gonna take this example. If I'm, I don't know, gimme a food that I can make.

A food that you could make. Yeah, we just made lasagna last night, so let's— all right, let's use lasagna.

Let's use lasagna. So I'm trying to make the best lasagna I can ever make, right? If I make a lasagna with instructions and then I make a lasagna without instructions, which one am I gonna remember?

Okay, I think maybe this is a— this is a rocky analogy because it'll taste like crap if you have no instructions and you have no idea what you're doing.

Like, let's say I'm a genius chef, I know how to make it, but I don't have an exact recipe, and I follow the exact recipe and I make it myself and make my own recipe that both tastes good. Which one am I gonna remember?

I think your point, what you're trying to say, is that, um, what I'm trying to learn more— you learn more when you do it yourself and through— and through exploring how to get there instead of it being like step by step by step. Again, I'm gonna actually say for the record, I think cooking's a rough analogy with this, but I understand what you're saying. I do. I understand what you're saying. You also remember your lessons better if you learn them for yourself. I gotta—

I got a better analogy.

Okay, hit me. Love a good analogy.

I'm trying to learn how to ski.

Get closer to your microphone, son.

I'm trying to learn how to ski, and there's an instructor telling me step by step how to do it.

Mm-hmm.

And, but instead I do it myself. I fail and then I fall and then I fail and fall and fail and fail and fail and fail. Eventually I'm gonna get it.

Okay. Both ways. Let me ask this question. Let me ask this question. Uh, is there value sometimes in being given tips and tricks from someone that's an ex— an expert?

Yes.

Okay. So also, can we also just talk about learning styles? Yes. Right. Some people, some people can actually, yeah. Some people can learn just by watching.

So I can't really do that.

You can't. You've identified that in yourself and that's fine. I don't, I don't know many people, something like skiing. I don't know who could be like, well, I watched a guy do it, now I know. I think that's a bodily physical thing like that. I think probably requires a little bit of, right? Your body has to learn it.

You gotta, you gotta get used to the feeling. You gotta.

Yep.

That's why I'm probably like my cousin, my cousin Tyler, he's 21, almost 22. He told me his learning experience. He takes experience over schooling.

Sure.

Yeah, that's like, that's why he dropped out of college and he is like moving up the ranks in his construction.

Yeah, he's doing great. So okay, time out real quick. So we're not saying— we, you and me right now, you are not saying to throw away education.

That is exactly what he told us. He said he has a different learning style than other people and You gotta find your own way to do it.

And formal education might be necessary for certain jobs. Sure, that's just facts. But you are bringing up something that I think is really, really important. And I guess I'm going to say it to you, I'd say it to your older brother, I'd say it to anybody that asks me anything about how to figure out what to do with their lives. You got to try a bunch of stuff out. I know, that's what you got to do. You got to take— get a job figure out what you like, figure out what you don't like. Okay, of course you do.

School system problem.

Oh geez, are we gonna do this a little bit?

Okay, not just our school, I'm taking all schools in general.

Okay, education on a whole.

When I have an idea of what I want to do at a young age, feed that idea.

Okay, I'll, I'll entertain this.

Can you respect that?

I can respect that, sure.

If I want to be a police officer for a bigger town, bigger town and city.

That's your new thing.

That is my new thing that I want to do. Right. Instead of making me learn when Christopher Columbus landed on the American islands, teach me law and justice.

Okay.

Teach me criminal defense, defense. Teach me other stuff that will guide me toward my dream. Yeah.

Okay. So here's a few things, buddy. I think you're right. And I think when you have to consider that school systems have a bunch of people in them with a bunch of different dreams, it's really hard to fully personalize learning. Now, you know that that's something that even our school kind of moving towards more of this, like, what does the school want to be? Or what does the child wanna be? What's the child wanna do? And then trying to tailor some of their learning to that. So I think, I mean, I think that that's, I think that that general wave of education is coming. Um, but I don't know that it's ever gonna be possible if you stay in a public school system to see, yeah, exactly personalized learning like what you just described. But I think we can get closer and I think, I, I think we are, can. Mm-hmm.

It just, it just has to be effort. It's like we just, we just need people that want to do it.

And, and it's a big system that you're trying to change. Education has been kind of done a certain way for many, many, many, many years. It's hard to break through that. It's challenging.

I agree. But there's many different ways it can be done.

Mm-hmm. So I also feel like I'm hearing you tell me as a young person that you want your voice to matter.

Yes. I just want someone to listen because the main problem with our school system, in my opinion—

But we're not just talking school, remember? We're talking about community.

Our school.

I know, but I don't want us to get where we're just pointing out all the problems. We want to think about, okay, so if this is a problem, what's what's the solution. And you're literally talking about, um, I'm asking about engaging you and your age. I'm asking you the question. So right now you have a voice. You have a voice. It's literally amplified through a very cool mic and very cool headset. You look really cool, right? And we're listening to what you think. And, and do you think there's room for us to do more of that in broader community? Like, should we be asking you guys you and your friends, what you think you want to do. Yeah. What you wanna do. I like what you wanna see. What do you think about that? If they don't know, give them, it's, I, we haven't really done a ton of that in Oaks. Is that something you think we should do?

Listen to kids?

Yeah. Ask them and then listen to them.

What's, what's your dream? Uh, I wanna be an astronaut. Okay. Teach them about the planets. Teach them about, space, teach them about something, something that can feed their dream, feed their interests.

Yes, like, and that they're very passionate about this, honey.

But it's because every time I go to school, I feel like I don't matter and I'm not going to be heard no matter what.

Okay.

And that is a huge problem in student morale, in my opinion. And that legislator that decided it's a I think it's a cool idea to take away phones in school, which is not a terrible idea.

Oh, you're just going there too, huh?

Oh my goodness, I—

Listen, so one of the things, you know, I hope that by being my kid you're gonna learn is how to talk about your frustrations and kind of your low-key complaints maybe in a way that doesn't demonize or criticize the people in charge. It's a really important skill to learn. It's hard. And you're only 13, so you get to feel how you feel. And I don't think you feel that way across the board with your school. There are definitely teachers that listen to you. You don't have to call 'em out. Please don't.

I'm not gonna.

Don't have to call out the ones that don't listen to you. Okay. But I think it's just recognizing that, and this is some, this is important to me. I've never had you on this podcast in this kind of a way. Because I think everybody deserves a voice. I think every voice, especially in a community as small as ours, every voice needs to be heard. Every voice needs to be invited to the table.

And no matter if they're young or not, they should have a say in what we're doing and what we're doing. Because it's— I know it's going to sound strange, but some of the most creative ideas come from kids.

I don't disagree with you at all.

It's because like they don't have this like Yes, way of doing everything. I know they don't have like— they, they can't really think if something's possible or impossible. Yeah, and sometimes we need to have that.

That's right, we need, we need constraint-free ideas where it's just like—

we need like random, wild, do you know, awesome ideas.

One of the reasons I built this building is because I wanted there to be a place where those ideas could be said out loud and you wouldn't wouldn't be laughed out of the room.

You're the piano being tuned.

I know, the piano is being tuned. I wasn't supposed to be on a podcast right now, but you hopped down. Do you know how long we've been talking, son?

Almost an hour.

Uh, 45 minutes. Did you know you were capable of talking for 45 straight minutes? I feel like that.

I thought we— I was gonna get bored by like 20-minute mark.

So I've entertained you? Like, this has been engaging for you?

I think we call it good for today and maybe hop on another one later.

We can call it good for today. Thanks for rounding out the end of our first part of our season.

Can I give one more shout out?

Absolutely.

Shout out again to Rip Miller and Max Wallach for coaching Babe Ruth baseball for us.

Oh, I love that. So that's another thing. I guess I'll just say that, like, as a young person, if you have an opportunity to straight up coach or to co-coach or to co-train or to get involved in those things, that's a great way. To lend your time and effort to students and to kids and to programs.

Yeah.

So we're gonna, we're gonna say goodbye now and let our piano tuning guide us out of this podcast. Thanks for sitting down with me, buddy. All right, bye.

Can we do a little like air horn? Something? Maybe.

Do you want— I want an air horn. Okay, toodaloo. We hope you loved this episode of the Growing Small Towns show. We encourage you to leave us messages at 701-203-3337. And be sure to subscribe to our newsletter at growingsmalltowns.org. In the meantime, keep doing what you can with what you have right where you are. Your community needs you.

Because we are growing small towns. We are growing small towns. We're right here living our best lives. Is crazy. Crazy as it sounds, but we are growing small towns, growing small towns. We are growing small towns. We are growing small towns.