S5:E19 - Small Town Talent Attraction with Alissa Henriksen

You are listening to the Growing Small Towns Show, a podcast dedicated to supporting you, the person who really cares about the future of your small town. We believe when people get better, everything gets better, and our episodes offer the ideas and actions that prioritize people and small communities. Thank you for listening. We're so glad you're here. Our guest on today's episode is Alyssa Hendrickson. She is one of the co-founders of Gray Search and Strategy, which is actually an employment recruitment agency. They do more than that, than just hire people into positions, but that's primarily what her work is. And our paths crossed at a Community Venture Network event back in January. And so we want to plug the CVN again. They're doing does such great work to bring really truly great people together. So it was super fun to have this connection. But basically, they, Alyssa over video actually, took the stage at this event that I was at, and she shared workforce trends. And there was so much overlap in the communication, just in what she communicated as far as what businesses should be thinking about, or really ought to be thinking about, and what employees want. And again, I, I just had this really strong sense that just because a lot of bigger companies are what we think of as recruiting, I know, for example, in our community, there have been at times where we've had kind of key positions in financial institutions, for example, that have used the services of a recruitment agency. Those are, they're key positions, right? And I think it doesn't matter what the position is. All communities are talking about how to recruit talent. And again, we get, I get into this conversation about culture and about what your community really feels like. And Alyssa takes that approach. She thinks about the community as well as just the business when she's talking to potential employees. And so this is a really, again, a really fun conversation talking about how much what you build in a business that you have in a community And it doesn't matter really how big the community is, but if we're talking small towns, what you're building within the four walls of your community has massive impact out on the streets of your community. And so this is a really cool conversation for thinking about what employers can do differently to attract talent. And then also there's some community angles as well that I just think are really important to the time that we're living in right now where jobs are plentiful and people have choices. So how do we get them to think about choosing us? So, uh, sit back, friends, and enjoy this conversation with Alyssa Hendrickson. Good morning, Alyssa. Welcome to the show.

Good morning. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you.

Yeah, well, we have a lot of fun stuff to talk about, I think.

Yeah.

So before we get into Gray Search and Strategy, which is the, uh, company that, I mean, you can talk a bit more about the full suite of services. There's a lot of stuff that you guys do. Um, that's the agency you own with your house, um, which is awesome. But why don't you tell us a little bit about how you got into this kind of work and anything pertinent to your background that you think will contribute to the conversation?

Yeah, that's such a good question. Um, 17 years ago— well, actually it goes back further than that because after I graduated from South Dakota State University— I'm a Jackrabbit, played volleyball for the Jackrabbits.

Oh, nice.

Um, yep, love it. I, I left and went to Minneapolis and had some interviews and learned about recruiting. And I thought, oh my gosh, this is incredible. I get to be somebody who learns about businesses and what they do and their foundation and their why story. And then I get to go out and find people that get excited about that. And I thought, that's pretty sweet because I'm a curious person at heart. And so to be in that kind of a position to be the matchmaker got me really excited. So I went and worked with a couple of different search firms in the Twin Cities. And I quickly learned that I wanted more out of that. I wanted to be in a place and really quite frankly, I always wanted to own my own business. And I saw this as an opportunity to be able to be less transactional and more like have intent behind everything we were doing. And so really to understand that business and to be able to take the time to get to know the candidate. And so my husband and I, at the time we were dating, we started talking about this because he was always recruited. He has that candidate experience background.

Okay.

Um, that was very transactional as well. And so we started to brainstorm about starting a business that was really about the partnership and really understanding those businesses and what makes them tick. And so 17 years ago, we self-funded it in 2008. Awful time to start a business.

Totally.

But it was such a pivotal point for us to kick off our business.

And so— Okay, I love that. I have a couple questions, just pieces of your background. So what did you study?

Yeah, so I double majored in business economics and Spanish.

Okay. So how did you land in recruiting? I mean, was there something about it that drew you to it? Right away, or like, how, cuz that's what's interesting about this to me, Alyssa, is that I, unless you've been like your husband, a candidate on, or, or you have a business that you actually have to hire a recruitment firm or, uh, you know, sometimes we used to call them headhunters, right?

Yeah.

To find your key positions. I, I think it's kind, I, one of, one of my dear friends is a, is a recruit, recruitment specialist. Like she does this, this is what she does. She's so good at it. Yeah. But it's honestly, to me, I think kind of a not super well-known industry. It's not, you know what I mean? It's not like something that you can study in school, right? So what the— like, how the heck did you get into that? What was it that even took you to Minneapolis and got you into this industry in the first place?

Yeah, well, I'm, I'm from, you know, I'm from a small town in Byron, Byron, Minnesota, southern Minnesota. So I always would go to Minneapolis. I always felt like that's where I'd be. I want— I wanted to stay close to family, but Minneapolis to me offered some opportunities that I was intrigued by because when initially when I was in school, I thought I would do international business. That's where I thought I was going to go.

Okay.

So what was really great is when I graduated and I, and I was contacted by a search firm because of the way at that point in time how I was sending my resume out and how I was responding to some job postings. I was contacted by a search firm. They brought me in and I thought when I went in there, truly the intent was they were talking to me about this kind of associate buyer position. And I thought, oh, this is cool. And we had a really good conversation and I didn't— I got into my car and I got a phone call from them and they said, hey, would you ever consider being a recruiter? And I was like, you mean what you are doing?

What, what, you know, what you just did to me? Yeah.

And I was like, to be honest, no. But I'm really— I was so intrigued by it in that interview. I started asking questions about how many companies are they talking to and how does this work. And I think they saw my curiosity. And so that really— what, that's what started it all. And so I went back in and interviewed and I landed a position with them.

Wow.

And so I loved it. I'm such a curious person. I just, I love it. And I also love it because this goes back to being younger. I think we write off people too quickly. I think for sure we make assumptions too quickly. And I was one of those that people made assumptions about because I was diagnosed with dyslexia when I was really young. And I'll always remember that, ooh, you have dyslexia. You're not going to make it too far in this world. And it wasn't just dyslexia, it was auditory dyslexia. And that to me, at a very young age—

Can you— what does that mean? So does that mean like when you, when you hear, when you hear something, you don't hear it the way that it's delivered? Like it—

correct.

I don't know if that's the proper way to say it.

Yeah, it is. It comes into the brain, doesn't make any sense, which— so there's that component. But even if I heard it the right way, I would write it the wrong way. So I had the double whammy.

Wow, Melissa, that is so challenging.

Yeah, it was crazy. And my mom, I mean, God bless her, because she was a teacher and she saw things early on in me. And the teachers in school weren't necessarily helping. They couldn't diagnose it on their own, and they thought I was just honestly a problem child because they couldn't figure it out.

Right.

So long story short, if it wasn't for my mom, um, you know, I wouldn't— I truly wouldn't be where I am because she had to dedicate so much time outside of school. And I was being tutored by the reading center, and I had my mom, but she really had to quit her job to help me, um, and that was tough for her, you know. And, um, but I'm incredibly grateful. And so I just remember how many people would write me off, and I'm like, no, I, I have a story. I, I'm a person. I can figure this out. And I was very determined to do that. And so that also is a big part of who I am today and what we do is let's not write people off. Let's get to know them, you know, whether that's the business and their story or the individual human and what they have going on. Not everybody's great at writing a resume, by the way. They, you know, we didn't grow up to do that. How can we help people?

So, right. Okay, well, I love that. So my follow-up question is, I think I already know the answer, but I want to hear you articulate it. So you said that when you were in that initial recruiting firm that you didn't say this, but what I heard, what I felt like I heard you tell me is that something was missing. There was like, there was something in the either you called it transactional. So maybe some of it was process, but some of it feels like it might be more foundational to the work than that for you. What was missing that you were just like, if I could do this my way, here's what I would add, or here's what I would— here's how I would build it?

Yeah, that's a really good question. Um, first it was I felt pressured to do things very quickly.

Yeah, I bet, because time is money in recruiting. It is so costly.

I mean, yep, yep, get it filled, get it filled fast, and let's go, right? And And listen, like, there's so much I'm grateful for, for all the experiences that I've been given. And it's out there for a reason. You know, search firms are still thriving with that and doing well. But for me and how I was built, I had more questions, both for the companies we were supporting and the candidate that wanted to learn more about the opportunity. And I wanted that time to be able to do that, to dedicate to both, because I felt they both deserved that time in order for us to make a match. Because it wasn't just about filling the position for the guarantee that was offered, the 90 days or whatever it was. It was about the long-term fit and how that individual can make an impact, not just for those few months but for years to come, right? And so it was about allowing us to have that time and to put thoughtfulness into what we were doing, how we were getting to know them. Because every business requires a different strategy to get to the end result. Every business, as you're learning about their founder story, how they got to that point to where they are today, and the kind of people that really help make that business thrive is different. There isn't one business that's the same, right? And so for us to be able to— it's our job to be able to come in and understand that so that we can seek the people that fit that. But also to help guide our clients into, here are your challenges and you need to be able, you need to be aware of it. You need to understand if you're not aware of it, you're going to continue to hit these roadblocks.

Right.

You're going to continue to hit your head up against a wall. And that's frustrating for any business owner. I'm a business owner. So we need to be able to know what to look out for. And so that strategy component and really helping them, we're so incredibly passionate about.

Right. Okay. I love all of this. So when I first heard about Gray Search and Strategy, it was at an event in Minneapolis, but it was specifically for rural or smaller community economic developments or communities like in general. So it could, so just for the audience, the purpose of them listening to this, it really, it could have been a mix of people in the room. For the most part, they worked in community slash economic development. But what was so much fun is that I, so I did like a, there's nice I love the format of that event, by the way. I mean, it's true. Um, just that, that kind of quick hit Q&A, just open questions. Um, and I had done my part, like maybe 2 or 3 presenters ahead of you guys.

Yeah.

And, um, and mine, mine is my, my perspective is very much born out of my professional background in organizational development, but also just being wired the way that I am, being who I am and being in this community. Right. Um, and so it was so crazy and fun when you you guys get up there and you talk about kind of the 5— I think they were called— I think you actually titled them the top 5 workforce trends for, for us to be thinking about. And there were so many kind of points of overlap between kind of my perspective and what I had shared and what you were sharing. And so, um, this to me was like a really easy fit in alignment for, for our audience because talent is talent. And I think the, I think there's a couple things that I would love to explore with you. One being this narrative or this thought that talented people don't wanna move to rural places. That's one thing, 'cause I don't believe that's true. And granted, I get it, like you're in, you're still in Minneapolis, but you work with a lot of communities, a lot of small places and a lot of companies. And so I want us to kind of dispel that. And then the second thing is just what, what are those workforce trends that you're seeing, Alyssa? Really are things that small towns can address in some respects. I mean, just address, period. Like, we wanna know what they are. But I think, I think because small towns are smaller by nature, sometimes some of what candidates really want, we can activate easier or faster.

Yeah.

So those are the two things I'd love to explore with you on this topic. So the first one is just, you know, what are you seeing? Is it true that The most talented people don't want to move to rural places.

It is not true. No, it's not true at all.

We just end it there. Like, that's it.

It's not true.

Quit saying it. Quit saying it. Quit believing it.

I know. Well, and honestly, there's been more and more movement out of, of the cities and back to the towns that they grew up in, or to a town that felt like the town they grew up in.

Yeah, right.

And, and so much of it is because, A, I love the fact that smaller towns, we're seeing more businesses booming, growing, or, or, or, you know, looking to open up in, in smaller towns. I mean, that's— look at CVN, right? Look at that. Look at that event. It's, it's how these businesses are coming in. Some big businesses are looking for opportunities to grow in small towns. Because we see, we all see that as huge opportunity and it's the quality of life. Okay. It's the quality of life that so much of us are sick and tired of feeling like that peace has gone away. And naturally the busy city, right? Like you just kind of get caught up in that busy, busy city feeling. So that is not true. It's far from the truth, quite frankly. And a lot of our clients are in small towns. We— it naturally morphed into that years ago, and that's because we started by working with Polaris Industries. And if you look at— even though Polaris is not small, if you look at where Polaris has facilities, it's in smaller towns.

Yep.

You know, and so what's so great about that, early on, right when we started our business, and we are so grateful for that opportunity, is we started working with their HR teams and building strategies on how to bring talent into those small towns. And so we had boots on the ground in Roseau, Minnesota, or Vermilion, South Dakota, Spirit Lake, Iowa. And we were getting to know that community and getting to know what that community had to offer outside of work. Yeah, right, because there's more to work. Even though we work so much, what are you doing outside of work? So we were sitting down with real estate agents and the principals of schools, and we would go into coffee shops and we'd get to know the vibe. Um, and all of these communities have amazing vibes, and that's what we were selling. It was, yes, this is the job. And it is so cool to go and work for Polaris and later on it's XYZ company. But here's, here's the community that you get to be a part of. And that's what's— that's the home that they want to understand and feel. And so that's really been a big part of Gray ever since we started, is we go and visit every single client because we want to understand the vibe in the community so that we can make sure we're representing it in the right light to people who are looking to move.

How, how different do you think that makes you? Because it feels, it feels to me like a big differentiator.

It is a big differentiator. We invest first, we love it, but we invest so much time in getting to know those businesses that we work with and the communities that they're in. I always go back to, by the way, it's like when you went to college, do you remember? I mean, So, so for me, I, I was recruited to play volleyball and so I had the opportunity to visit a number of different colleges. But I remember the first 10 minutes of stepping onto a campus, if I loved it or if I felt a little like, I don't know if this is for me. Right, right.

100%. And you, you called it's like the vibe, but it's actually a vibe check and your body and your entire being can sense it.

Yep, 100%. And by the way, don't, don't brush that aside. That's your gut telling you this is for me or it isn't. The same thing is for when you're looking at going to work for an employer, a new employer in a community. And I— it doesn't matter where it is, you're going to get that feeling. And so as a recruiting partner, it is our job to get a good sense of what that's like so we can display it in the best light, the right light, the true light for, for an individual. Because what— getting a new— isn't job like one of the top 3 stressors that you deal with, right?

Yes. Yeah. Well, and I think, I think the other thing that's super cool about this, this kind of whole— I'm going to call it a holistic, a more holistic approach to, to the recruitment of a person, because it's also their family and whoever they're bringing with them if they're moving especially to that community for that job. Um, you're, you're You're doing this work in a way, and again, it's why small towns even have a shot, I think, at some of, some of this talent. It's because I do think, I think the world has changed so much and it's, it's shifted in our favor. Yeah, it's small towns' favor. And I think we just need to be— it's okay to acknowledge that and it's okay to be proud of that. And I think it gives us opportunities to shine in ways that it's tougher for bigger cities to do just because there's, there's more distraction. Right. And I think you're, you're also, um, it's, it's recognizing that people, like, even if a job is really good, it's hard to get people to stay if the environment isn't like, if the actual community that they live in, because we don't live in a time anymore where people will make those sacrifices because people have choice. So, so many choices, right? So I just think this is— it's super, super cool, and I loved your entire perspective on that. I love that you incorporate that into the work. And I'm sure that if, like, reflecting back on that first experience, that's a lot of what was missing for you, right? You know, you probably sat there and you're like, wait a minute, I have 15 more questions I'd like to ask both parties to be sure that I'm connecting them in the right way. And yeah, yeah, you just didn't have the space to do that. And so you built it because why not, right?

I love that, right?

Yeah, yeah.

And, and my husband and I are, uh, very— we're very much cut from the same cloth. He's from a small town. His dad is a— started a business. Um, he was stocking the shelves, uh, on rollerblades when he was a young boy. I mean, it's— so we have so many— I think we have so many similarities and, and our focus around customer service and just how we're built, but it's— those small towns are beautiful. And because we were both born and raised in a small town and have, you know, you have plus and minuses to small town and big city, we can really relate with some of the challenges and some of the things that you can get stuck in a rut if you don't understand what those challenges are on the outside that could be impacting your ability to bring in that talent.

Right, right. Okay, awesome. Let's talk trends. Yeah, you know, what are, what are you seeing? And I actually remember a few of them. We also, I think, do you guys have a white paper or a blog post of some sort that summarizes these? I thought, yeah, I thought so. So we'll make sure that we link to that so people can actually see the, see the results. But when you think about our audience, and it's, again, it might be small business owners listening to this, it may be community development people listening to this, um, We all know the value of a new resident. I mean, it's just in the sense that we're always hungry to recruit new people to our communities. So what are the things we should be thinking about?

Yeah, first I got to go, you know what's really cool is when you got up and spoke, I was— mine was a video. And so I remember listening to you and thinking, man, God, do I love your perspective. So great. And you're so straightforward and you're fresh. And it just, it was so, so great to feel a common connection just based on our thoughts and how we feel, right? Because I could feel your passion of wanting to so badly support small towns and help them see what we, what they could be doing to continue to remain competitive, right?

Yeah.

So first and foremost, I love that. And these trends are— I think it's sometimes hard for small towns and small communities to wrap their heads around. But one of them is, right, working with the individual on— I don't like calling it hybrid. And by the way, there's so much talk right now about people going back into the office full-time, especially in the city. But it's not so much about hybrid. It's about meeting people where they're at. So let's get rid of the word hybrid. I'm sick of it.

Quite like environment, working environments. Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah. Right.

Yep. You're— you just need to be able to understand that people are dealing with more pressures, more challenges today than ever. And if you can meet them where they're at and understand that flexibility is key, understand if you go into an interview as an owner and you just say, nope, it's 5 days a week in office, you are going to miss out on, on so much incredible talent, and especially when you're in a small town. And by the way, if you, if you know your culture and if you understand what makes your culture tick and you hire to that culture, you should never, ever, ever have to worry about what that, that new hire or that employee is doing. They are a fit and they want to work hard for you.

Okay. Amen. Can I stop there real quick? Because that's touching like right at the heart of my professional experience prior to getting into kind of the community side of things, it's culture at— in the workplace. And I, I think that was something that I, I mentioned in that event, was just when people are consistently saying nobody wants to work, um, it's just too catastrophic and extreme for my brain and my heart. And then I always just want to say, okay, well, what about— what is it really like to work for you? I mean, have we, you know, have we explored that? And I know it's tricky, it's tricky to have that conversation, but it has to be had. Yeah, because it's as, it's as dismissive, I think, as people saying, well, nobody wants to move to a small town. And then my answer would be like, well, maybe not to yours. If that's the, if that's the mindset that you walk around with, you're creating a vibe that probably isn't attractive to, to outside people, right? And I, and I'm never— I— it's so hard, Alyssa, because I think we have to find, um, constructive ways to bring these, these things forward or these perspectives forward without shaming anybody. Like, I'm not here to run anybody down or say like you're doing it wrong. I, I only ever want to encourage people to open their minds a little bit, like, and ask the questions of, well, what if, you know, like, what if there are things we could do to make our culture friendlier to work in? Because that's just it. I think you're, you're touching on something I think is so important because Um, the, the whole feeling of worry, like the worry people have about what are my employees doing if I can't see them every day— that's not an employee problem, that's a culture problem.

It is a culture problem.

And I get that, yes, then you're— you, you might have to have some conversations about productivity. But if you, if you have just this lens that employees are out to screw over their employer, that's a perspective that has to shift because it isn't valid. And it's also very fear-based, which I just— I don't think any thinking born completely out of fear is ever really the best course of action or way to think about things, right? Like, it just doesn't have any trust. There's no trust in people, and that's got to be baked in, you know. And so to the people listening to this, if you don't have these things kind of figured out in your culture, do that and do it now. Because, because you have a culture whether you think you do or not. That's what I think is always so funny. Like, it's happening. You maybe haven't defined it, and you maybe don't love what's been created, but you have one.

Right? Right.

I'll get off my soapbox about this, but my goodness, that's a big deal to me.

Well, and I think for the listeners, you know, something that you can do without spending any money is just Google culture exercises. There's so many different things out there, but Regardless, go back to when you started your business. Go back to what was, what was the passion? What was it that was driving you to go out and do it, right? And get excited about that again. Remember what that felt like. And then remember as you were continuing to see growth and opportunity and what was happening, right? And then I always say, what are the first, let's say, 3 to 10 people based on your size of company that come to mind that demonstrate what, what your culture feels like.

Amen. These are so practical and I love them and they're super helpful. I hope people are literally taking notes because I think what you're, what you're touching on too, Alyssa, is that no. So I just, I just had a conversation with a prospective client yesterday about this exact kind of work. They have, they don't have anything defined. Okay. And they're in their culture and they've grown kind of, you know, fast. They're small, small agency. But I said, what we're not gonna do is like Google the best values to have as a company. Like, yeah, that's not what we're doing here. Right. You're what I would have the exact same kind of approach, which is simply you're already like, if you've achieved some success, you've already made some really fantastic decisions and people are embodying those things.

Yeah.

So that's exactly it. Who are those people that really represent? Like, if the ones that you say to yourself and no one else, like, if I could clone her or him, I would. Okay, let's talk about that person. What do they do? How do they act? How do they show up? What do they embody? Right? Like, it's such a great— you've already got great people. We're not inventing things out of nothing here. We're just putting, putting some language and some definition to the things that guide the people side of of your business. So yeah, yeah, I love that.

And you could even ask those people very simply, you know, by the way, which I hope they're doing, they're checking in quarterly is very much recommended, right? At least mid-year. But you ask them, what are the, what are the 5 words that come to mind when you think about our culture? And you ask them individually. Yeah. Now you start to see the consistency in what those people are saying to you about your culture. And now you're starting to build more meaning and meat behind the culture. It's, it's something that, you know, everyone is feeling because you really do want to hire and fire, make tough decisions on those culture words, right? On what, what does your culture mean to you and who are you today?

So yeah, and amen to that as well. Like, this not— it's not just a recruiting tool. It is It's a, it's almost, and again, these are bigger words than the average small, small business would use, but that idea of talent development or a talent, you know, pipeline or just kind of career laddering, like those kinds of things and future workforce needs, you know, you, it's, it's instead of saying, well, we just know it when we see it, I'm like, yeah, but why don't we figure out what it is that we're seeing that feels really good to us? Because that's When you figure those things out too, it makes your job as a recruiter so much easier because you're matching, you're matching on more things than skills.

You are.

Because I, I mean, I don't know if that's anything you're seeing in the trend, but like I have this really— and I would love to hear your take on AI too and like what's happening, you know, in that, in that sense of it. But it's like to me, and this is again is anecdotal, so you probably have tried and true experience to back up this hypothesis of mine, but I think with skills becoming like actual skills, technic— the technical skills of jobs, right? I feel like they're going to become more and more commoditized in a way that having that— having a skill isn't enough to make you special or to stand out. Um, and so we can't simply hire to a set of technical skills. Some jobs it's a little easier to do that, I think. But I don't know if that feels true to you, you know, if that feels right or accurate, but I'd love your opinion on it.

It does. I mean, you know, there are obviously, there are positions out there and we could go at this for hours on which ones would require some experience with that technical expertise. I 100% agree.

Yeah.

However, we are crippling ourselves by believing that somebody needs to have X number of years of experience in order to do this job. What we are doing is we are eliminating, again, talent, especially from a small community. If you look, if you do a general radius around your community and you start to look at, which we have the ability to do, people who have technical skills with a certain background, you are going to be dead in the water if you don't start thinking differently about how to hire into those roles. So, one big hot one, let's say, is a controls engineer. And we've had conversations with clients about this that are in very rural areas. You can bring people into your organization that fit that culture, number one. Number one, fit the culture. And they have the technical aptitude to do the job, right? There are tools out there that can also test for that. But if you have strong people in your organization that have been doing this job that fit the culture. This is such a sweet opportunity for them to start training that, that next generation of people who fit the culture, have the technical aptitude and the hunger to get it done. Let's go. We can do this, right? We don't have to say, well, they don't have 8 years of experience, so therefore we can't hire them, right? Because guess what? Yes, you are going to run into a lot of issues around internal equity. I hear that all the time, especially if we're trying to hire people with so many years of experience because they're never going to have the exact experience that your person has with 8 years of experience. So no matter what, there's going to be a discrepancy on compensation. I am so passionate about this. I get you need at times that senior leader or that senior experience. And if that's the case, you're going to have to bend on the comp. Because those individuals who are wanting to come into a smaller community who have the years of experience, they are compensated differently, right? So you're going to have to be able to flex in those areas. But I also understand you can't do that for everyone, right? So that's where growing from within and creating kind of a think tank and a training opportunity for these people Now you're standing up, now you're standing alone, and you're, you're creating something so cool that people want to be a part of.

The Growing Small Towns show is recorded locally at the Growing Small Towns podcast studio located in Oakes, North Dakota. It's produced by Pheasant Canteen Studio in Aberdeen, South Dakota, with marketing support from Cassidy Johnston in Canyon City, Colorado. Our intro music was created and produced exclusively for Growing Small Towns by James Bergman, singer and songwriter from Fargo, North Dakota. Local and small, it's what we support and it's who we love. Get your community a shout out on the podcast. Call 701-203-3333. 337 and share your small town success that you just don't feel is being celebrated quite enough and let us shout you out. You can also share your biggest people challenge and we'll dedicate an episode to offering ideas to help. Hell, you can basically tell us anything and we'll do what we can to answer. We can't wait to hear from you. Today's Small Town Shout Out is the community of Plankinton, South Dakota. Our friend Carl shared that what he thinks makes Plankinton such a neat community is their small businesses. Um, we all know that locally owned small businesses are actually the heartbeat of a small community, and it's really, really cool to hear somebody celebrate the small businesses in their town. Way to go, Plankinton!

Hey, this is Brody, friend of Growing Small Towns and owner of the Market on the Plaza in Aberdeen, South Dakota. In small towns, coffee is more than just a morning pick-me-up. It's where neighbors catch up, it's where farmers fuel up before their day, and where friends linger just a little longer. At the Market on the Plaza, we roast our beans right here in town, slow and steady, in small batches, so every cup tastes fresh fresh, rich, and made just for you. So stop into the Market on the Plaza next time you're in Aberdeen, grab a bag for home, or just sit a while with us. Because when your coffee's local, your town feels a little closer too. Freshly roasted, proudly local, always welcoming. That's the Market on the Plaza.

Yeah. Oh my goodness. That's such a, it is such a refreshing, I mean, I feel like I feel like you're sharing such deep perspectives that I have on this work, and I think it's super cool. It's super refreshing to hear it coming from a recruitment firm that does recruiting, because again, it's, it's not— it's never just about filling a job. It's, it's not. And I know on the employer side of it, it absolutely feels like that's what it is because it's, it's so hard. It's so hard to have open positions. That go a really long time with zero applicants. Yeah, I, I get it. And, and so, but I think you're— we're hopefully, we're equipping business owners to think a little bit differently. Like, if you're really struggling to recruit people there, we've at least outlined a few things, right, that you could take a look at. So, okay, so we had the first trend we talked about was, um, flexible work environments instead of the word hybrid, like just Thinking about— and I don't know if this is kind of your take on it too— there are some jobs that there really isn't a lot of flexibility, right? That's, that's just facts. But so to me it's like, but when you can, right, look for, look for where there can be flex.

Yep, absolutely. And, and you need to understand, right, some of those roles that really don't allow it. That's the role. And that's the role, people. It is what it is. And you can't feel bad about that. But the other roles that do allow that flexibility, that's where you have to start to let go.

Yeah.

Take a deep breath and let go. But you can do that when you do understand your culture and you do hire to that, make tough decisions and fire to that. And also look in the mirror. If you have been retaining someone that is not doing what they need to be doing, you're not only hurting yourself and your trust, you're hurting your employees and their trust in you.

Absolutely. Yep.

Yep. So, yes.

Okay.

So first and foremost, provide some flexibility for those roles. Understand what your culture is all about. Take the time to do that. It's so important. And be proud. Be excited about it. Showed it from the rooftop. Work environment, it kind of, it kind of comes off of this flexible piece. We've toured hundreds of facilities in small towns, hundreds over 20 years. And one of the things that, again, I know this is easier said than done, but when I walk into a facility and I see pink paint in a women's bathroom, and I see blue paint in the men's bathroom and I see old shades hanging from the windows, what that says to the employee is that you're not putting as much care into your business and therefore, are you going to put care into me? Mm-hmm. And so work environment is also— it's not just how you're treating people. It's also about how you're taking care of your— of the four walls. And the environment I'm walking into. And some of these things are quick fixes, you know, and we've given a lot of advice over the years to businesses that are in smaller communities because they don't, you know, they're not thinking about that competition and what that employee is walking into and other, other businesses. They have legacy, they have history, they have so much to be proud of, but they're not making changes. You know, to the building itself. And so, I could spend a lot of time on that as well. It's just really important to keep an update on your business. But then, carrying over back to the individual, it's the mental health and it's how we're taking care of people. It's the environment. It's bringing back the pizza parties out on the shop floor. It's making sure we're connecting with our employees on a quarterly or mid-year basis and making sure that you're asking them, how are you doing? You know, this is how I see you still fitting into the organization, and we're so excited you're here. Communication is so important. People want to hear from you, and they want to know how you're doing and how the business is doing.

Can I tell you something? I feel like I get a lot of pushback because this is so touching into my work too. Like, because what's fascinating about this, Alyssa, is we really— like, I feel like overall we are not just in any way speaking about the initial match, right? I mean, we're talking about, we're talking about the things that you're recruiting them into, and that's duration, and that affects all. So every business listening to these things, I hope, I hope is thinking about this stuff because it's just like it— I, I talk about this stuff all the time. Um, but what I often hear, um, when it comes to what we were just talking about with, um, environments and legacy is— you know what, I literally just lost my train of thought. What did you just say about the history?

I literally did history and the legacy and how these businesses are basically utilizing that, what they're with their business and their background and their history. They have so much to talk about, right? And it's outdated. So, right, was it anything on—

seriously, like, I don't usually lose my thread, but I lost— I'm sure it'll like hit me like a ton of bricks, but it was, it was, um, whatever it was, I'll come back to it, it'll hit me. It had something to do with what I hear employers say, like reasons that they don't want to go there.

Yeah, because of how they feel about— and, and, well, here, I'll say this, going back to my comment around going on to colleges and universities, right? You— the human being, it's your senses, right? It's touch, it's feel, it's all that stuff, right? And, and over the years, we will always go back to feelings that are from our past. So if I step into a building and it's dated and not taken care of, and things are happening within that building that I'm like, that, that's gonna make me go, I'm not interested, and I'm immediately turned off. Right, right.

Well, 100%. Yeah.

So that environment that you are— it's, it's your business, it's your baby, and that environment that you're in is it— and you're trying to attract people to that. Um, it just needs to be cared for. And that again goes back to, um, you know, what you're doing to cover your bases as far as bringing talent into your organization.

Yeah, I, I think what's interesting about this too is I often say, um, that there isn't a— you can't short— there's not a shortcut to this. Um, there isn't a way that you can— you can't outsource caring. Um, you know, and, and you're talking about, ah, I found it, I grabbed my thread. So it's about the number of times we check in with people. So you've said it a couple of times that you, you suggest at least Quarterly. Um, and what I— and I would love to hear your take on this. I'm so glad I found it. Um, I was like, I'm gonna have to edit this out, but now we'll just let it sit because I, I found my thread. Yeah, but it's, it's about the fact that what I often hear is employers say, I don't need to sit down with my employees because I interact with them every day. You know what I mean? I actually hear people say that, and I'm like, but you're not devoting key nurturing and committed time to them, just seeing them on the floor or, you know, in the, in the typical work environment, it's a, it's a pass-by. And, and what we're talking about here is a meaningful, intentional touchpoint where you're checking on their holistic well-being. And I, I, I sometimes, again, it's, it goes back to your very first comment about making assumptions. I think sometimes we assume we know.

Know.

Yeah, everything going on with our employees, right? Especially in small towns, it's just like, well, of course I know what's going on with them. And I just want to be like, but that's— but that you don't. And it doesn't— our— what we're talking about is an environment where they know they matter that much. So I'm not saying it needs to be stuffy and weird and formal. No, but you can't just let day-to-day interaction pass for what you and I are talking about, correct?

Yep.

Has anybody ever said that to you? Do people push back on that when you bring this up or when you talk about it?

Yeah, they do. I, I would say what's funny is, especially from smaller towns, because, you know, listen, I get it, we're all very busy, uh, and, and it's— it doesn't need to be perfect, you know. I think oftentimes what we're afraid of, and going back to fear, is if we do something like this, man, what happens if it becomes touchy-feely? And what happens if I, if I'm not consistent, you know, with how often I'm doing this? And, um, but you have to start somewhere. And because people yearn for it, they really do, they want to know, even if they say they don't, they do. Because once you get them into a room and you sit down and you look at them and you say, so how are you doing? How are things going? You know, some are a little bit more introverted, and, and of course, you know, they're gonna have a harder time, um, I think, carrying on a conversation. But it's the fact that you're opening the door.

Yeah.

And, and the fact that you're showing you care, and that is what's so important. And they're going to go home, I guarantee it, and go, well, that was interesting. I mean, my boss asked me how I'm doing, right? And they actually showed that they cared. Right.

You're right.

Mind-blowing. But it's that simple. It is that simple to show the care that you have for your people. And so, you know, that's where if you're like, I'm not doing this at all, just start then with something. Start with, hey, you know, mid-year is coming up and it might be a great time to set up a time for you or for your leads to have discussions. But also your leads may— this could go down a whole nother path— your leads may not be equipped to do this either. So you may need to spend some time with them and, and saying, hey, this is all we're doing here, right? So we're doing—

this is the shift that I encourage. This is the shift in leadership that I'm encouraging in my work, uh, on the kind of the consulting side of, of my world. I— because also, I mean, we haven't even touched on this yet, but like The newest generation coming into the workforce, they have different needs.

They do.

And we really need to pay attention because the answer cannot be, well, they're just lazy and entitled. Yeah, I mean, I'm just like, well, if you want that to be your answer, you know, go with God. Yeah, you are gonna have a really hard time filling positions and being a viable business into the future because I don't know if you— so a statistic I had seen from, I don't remember if it was Gallup, probably Gallup, I'm guessing, by 2030, 30% of the workforce will be— it will consist of like Millennials and Gen Z, right? So that's 5 years away.

5 years.

So if, if the next 5 years all you do is say that all those— all the people in that generation are lazy and entitled, what are you gonna— what are you gonna do? Because one of every 3 people working in your business is gonna be from that generation. So they are. Yeah.

And by the way, we kind of enabled that generation to be who they are, but they are not all lazy and entitled, right?

Right.

And it goes all the way back. I have so many conversations about this, which is really funny. You know, my mom's like, well, I didn't— you know, I had to work on the farm and nobody helped. You know, I didn't get any help doing anything, and it was hard work, and it was, you know, just don't expect praise, just get your job right? And so, you think about how that went into the workforce. And by the way, I have no issues with how I was raised. It was work hard, be grateful, right? Show up, say what you're going to, you know, do what you say you're going to do. And always, always like that customer service piece. And yeah, there's a shift. Of course, we've all seen the shift. And we're always talking to our clients about how are you interacting with these other generations? How are your baby boomers and all of that. How is this going for you, right? And no one was really— no one's prepared for it. But this— these generations coming in, they do want to talk. They do want that opportunity and that face time. They do want to know, what do I need to do, right? It is more telling and explaining and coaching because they're hungry for it, because that's what colleges and universities are asking and telling them to do, right? It's not just their fault. It's really how we've brought them into the, the fold, right? And how they're going to be brought into your bloodstream in the organization and what, what you need to do to be prepared for it and not go, well, they're lazy in a title, it's not going to work.

Yeah, I, I— the other thing that you're, that you're touching on that I think is super important is one of the shifts that I think is such a good thing for all of us is their understanding of self and kind of social, the social-emotional aspects of learning that kids getting in public school now. I mean, for heaven's sake, we didn't get that. I didn't get that. And I wish that I had, to be honest, right? So it's really funny because there's a lot of people that I do life with that would really prefer that none of that be discussed at school.

Yeah.

And I'm just like, but it's a part of learning, understanding your emotions, being emotionally intelligent. That is a massive personal skill and interpersonal human relations skill, right? And our kids are getting exposed to it, right? Like, it, they're not, it's not just all of a sudden they're in a workforce and they've gotta like figure out human, how to navigate other humans, right? Like, it's, it's wild. So even though it's hard for us older generations that maybe haven't explored as much of our, our own inner worlds, it, we need, I, I really think like, I encourage everybody to think of that shift as a good one. Because again, we're talking about AI. Like, we have to out-human the robots if we're going to win this thing. And humanity is— it is touchy-feely, to go back to words that you said. Everyone's afraid of that. And it's like, but that's humanity.

It is humanity.

So it's an interesting thing because I think I— so I get the tension. I get why it feels like, oh my gosh, I don't want to open myself up to that. Ew.

Yeah.

And I'm— when I talk to clients, I'm like, But what if we opened our door just a little bit to it? You know? And like, I always ask, like, what are you, what are you really afraid of happening? Like, they tell you some big enormous thing. And what, what do you think you're going to do? What do you think is going to happen? You know? And sometimes, sometimes people have actually said, I'm just afraid they'll start to cry. And then I literally say, okay, well, then how do we, how would we handle that? Like, let's talk about it. What would, what would we do?

Right. Well, because it's human to feel things, you know, based on what's going on and all the things everybody's dealing with there. You're gonna see more of that, right? You are. I mean, so I've got two kids and I know how— I didn't have the social media, um, influences, right? And we're all trying to— we all have our own rules and guidelines as parents on what you can and can't do in your own household. But for me, for me, who was raised in a family that actually, you know, right or wrong, it's not like, talk about your feelings, talk about your feelings. That wasn't shoved down my throat. But I had to because of dyslexia. I actually really had to because of what that was doing to me. And by the way, 1 in 5 are dyslexic. And a lot of dyslexics go down the path of depression.

I'm sure.

Because they're not diagnosed properly. And so for me now, as a parent with two kids and social media, I am always saying, good— or the response of good is not good enough for me. I want to know what's going on in your world, and I want to know when you're feeling down and you're feeling pressured and you're feeling alone and you're feeling sad. And I'm forcing this to become a comfortable thing for them.

Yeah.

Well, I know I'm not alone. So we as now business owners, you have to think if this is what's going on a lot in households, those kids who will someday be in the workforce are going to want that level of communication.

They are, right?

They're going to, they're going to need it. They're going to want to know they're doing the right job. And if they're not doing the right job, what job do they need to be doing? And more handholding, whether we like it or not, is because of the circumstances these kids are in, that we're all in within society, right? And so that's the way that we have to mold and form and be flexible. I'm so passionate about that because again, if we're not opening the door for the conversation, we're not showing people that, hey, we care. We're not listening to what they're dealing with. And that just ends up being a domino effect to a disaster that then goes out into the workforce, right? If they're holding all this in and they don't have anyone to talk to and they go home and they're dealing with stuff, it's just a domino effect of negativity in the workforce.

Yeah. Oh my goodness. I love it so much. I know that it's hard. That's— I, you know, I fully admit that shifting, shifting an entire way of thinking about what work is supposed to be. Yeah, right. And holding on to kind of the more command and control rules of 20-ish years ago. Right. I get the desire. I say it all the time, like, oh, it would be so awesome if you could just look at people and say, just do your job. I'll pay you well, just do your job and shut up about it. It would be so great, but it's not any problems. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Please don't feel things. And, you know, I always joke, like, if only people literally could put their emotions in a bag and you could be like, just leave your baggage at the door and leave it out of here. It would be awesome. But humans don't work like that. And again, the normalization of a range of emotions in younger people, that's healthy. And so now we just need to adopt our workplaces to allow for that too, because that's healthy.

Yeah, it is.

So yeah, it's wild. It's a wild shift, and I know it's, it's really— it can be really taxing for people, but it can.

And, and I'll tell you a quick story. We worked with, um, a contract manufacturer in medical device for 17 years. They were recently sold. Um, really cool company, uh, leadership team, you know, just a bunch of amazing engineers, uh, from the president VPs, all the engineer backgrounds, right? And so I would say naturally engineers just don't have as much like, let's talk about feelings and let's get into the warm and fuzzy, right? It just, it just is what it is.

Yep.

We've been working with them for a long time, and one of their employees who was a leader, we started to spend a lot of time together, and the president was talking to me just about some challenges. And I, the more that this, like, honestly, over 2 weeks, the amount of time I was spending with him, I went back to the president and I said, you, you do know he has a learning disability, right? And she goes, no. And I said, he has a learning disability, and I'm guaranteeing you he has dyslexia. And what that did is it got her to to think differently about how to work with him. All of the struggles were tied to not him wanting to work hard, not him— he understood the job and he had been there for a while. And she's like, there's just this thing, I can't understand it. He needed to learn differently, you know. And just think, like, I just think this goes back to writing people off. And even though he had been there for for, you know, a few years. They liked him. He was a culture fit, but they were struggling with him. All of it changed when they understood how to work with him going forward. By investing time with people, you can get to know them, and you can get to know what their challenges are. And it's just like that to me. That's— that was like so— I almost got emotional with her when I was like, we can do better. We can support him in a way that he needs to be supported. And you're going to have him not be an 8 out of 10. He's going to be a 10 out of 10. Right.

And the loyalty.

Yeah.

The loyalty that breeds in a person. Because again, we talk about these things and I just always think to myself, why wouldn't people want to do this? But I also know that the motivations to not are strong because the resistance feels really strong. But that's ultimately what we're talking about. Is creating workplaces where people feel seen, like they can contribute, like they're wanted and needed as individuals. All of that's research-based, by the way. I mean, that's all Gallup, right? And that's about employee engagement because that's the other thing I don't, I don't know that oftentimes employers think enough about the cost to their organization of a disengagement or a, or a poor fit.

Right. You know, incredibly costly.

Yeah. And it's not just that they leave, it's what happens. It's the, it's the loss of productivity. It's the, the weight or the impact on the morale, you know, of everybody else that works there. These are real costs.

Real costs.

And humanity is the way through it, which I'm always just like, let's be more human.

I know. And we can do it. We can do it.

We can do it.

That phrase, right?

Yeah.

We can do hard things. I've said that for a long time. And it's good, right? It's good to be uncomfortable. Yes. It's good to put yourself in a position of feeling uncomfortable because you're also learning. And you're going to mess up. You're going to make mistakes along the way. And as long as you admit to that, like, listen, I'll be the first one to admit, like, I missed our first quarterly check-in this year with employees. And what I loved is they came to me and they're like, hey, Are we doing that check-in? And I'm like, oh gosh, like this, this year has just been a whirlwind and I can't even believe, I can't even believe it escaped me when I'm so passionate about the people check-in, right? Yeah. We're moving and we're doing this and then the family stuff and all that. And I'm so glad that they've gotten so accustomed to it and they are not afraid to come to me and go, hey, you know, are you going to do that check-in? So it's awesome.

And that's what I—

awesome. It's true.

You've built an environment where trust is thriving. Yeah, both ways.

Right.

And, and ultimately, yeah, it's, it's so great. Okay, how about one last big trend that I— and I think you have more than two, but we've touched— and again, I think this is— this conversation is truly, to me, it's so enriching because it's not it's not just about how do we get people here, because honestly, everybody that's a part of a community can think about some of these things.

Yes.

Like, I want the takeaway from this to be like, what could you do to be just a little bit more human to everybody today and make, make some room for that and know that it might be just, it might be a little uncomfortable, but embrace all of that, right? So, um, one last trend that you think we should be thinking about out? I would love to hear it.

Yeah, well, obviously the hot one is AI, right? Um, and, and I think in small towns, maybe not. I shouldn't assume that. I, I, and I apologize. We just need to know what, what's being talked about, what's out there, what's on the horizon. I, I would say I would be lying if I said based on some of the things that I'm hearing, I'm not a little scared. Of course I am. Yeah, the fact that I'm hearing things like in 10 years AI is going to replace X number of people in the workforce. Yeah, so we're just going to let robots run the world, you know, and I get it, like there's so many positives to AI and we use AI today and it's, it's incredible what it's doing and it can be incredible for, for businesses too in the way that they build a job description or even look at where they can find talent for these roles. You don't necessarily need to pay a recruiter for everything. You can really use AI in the right way to help you do this, but you need to be educated on it and you need to be on the lookout. AI is never going to replace the human, and the human helps you determine who is the best fit based on culture, based on feeling, based on gut. You know, I cannot do that. And if we allow AI to make hiring decisions alone, Boy, that's scary. That we can never do, right? Because, because we're the individuals who started our business. And I'm speaking as a business owner. We're the individuals that understands the people that are the right people that help make an impact, help us grow, help us see things, learn. I want, I want people who are better and smarter than me. I want to be surrounded by that. But you cannot use AI to make all of those hiring decisions for you. But they can be a part of it, right? And so a couple takeaways I would say is definitely use it to freshen up your job description. You can take your old job description, you can pump it into ChatGPT, and you can say, how can I make this more current? And what am I missing? Or what are some— what are some interview questions I can be asking people today to better understand fit? You know?

Yeah, right.

But they'll never, ever be able to understand your culture. So that's the thing you can't expect with AI, right?

I think I love that so much because I have the same take and I'm going to mention a throwback episode here. We'll make sure we get this one in the show notes. We had an AI practitioner on talking about what this means for rural places because I think, you know, what he and I talked a lot about is that we can use AI to like fill skills gaps. Apps in rural places, right? There, there's actually— it actually kind of can level the playing field in some respects, right? But it, it isn't what— I don't care what people say. I've heard, I've heard like big pro-AI people say, well, it is going to get smart enough where it can empathize. And I'm just like, empathy is a, is a human thing. And the other thing you're talking about that I think is important for people to remember in this conversation is as the business owner, there are, there are things that are in your soul, like in your blood, in your DNA, that have never been even maybe voiced out loud that you hold inside. And that goes with you alone. Yeah, I can't access it. You know, AI, like if, if the conver— if the rich conversations that we have with people were not recorded in some way, right? That all of that value AI doesn't have access to.

They don't.

But you do as a person who was involved with it. And that's the other reason why I think it's interesting that we talked about how the shift back to the workplace is kind of happening. I wonder if that's not a part of it. To a degree, right? Because those uniquely human things, if they're not written down and not recorded anywhere, it lives inside the humans, you know? And so I just want everybody to remember that, like, the uniqueness that's inside of you is actually yours alone, and AI can't take it from you.

No, no, they can't ever, ever take it from you. And, and I, I 100% agree with you, you know, your stories, uh, what built you, uh, you know, how you got from, from point A to point D, all of those things, you know, that's not been, like you said, recorded. Um, it is, it is your story. It is who you are. It is— you own it. And, um, and I think that kind of stuff that we, we interview when we interview candidates, like, we love getting to know them as the human. We don't just jump into the interview. That's— we're listening to a lot of these AI tools that are interviewing candidates because of course we need to, we need to stay up on what's going on in our industry. And they're not tapping into all of that touchy-feely stuff that is important to the human. They're only talking about what's on that job description and how it matches— or on their resume, I mean— and how that's matching their job description.

Right.

We're going to miss a lot of stuff. And that's the part that I don't— I— you can't, you can't replace that. You know, you can't get that.

Right. So that's why this is an art. It is, you know, it's an art. It's not a science. If it were a science, you wouldn't— you would lose your job. You would lose your agency to AI. You would. And so would I. So would I, probably. Like most of us that even do the idea of consulting work. Yeah, but it doesn't freak me out. Like, it freaks me out in some respects just because there is going to be a big shift, and I don't know, I don't exactly know what that's going to look like. But I do know that one of the answers can be just continuing to live a rich experience as a human and collect those things. That are really human. And it changes you and it changes what you know and it changes how you show up. And that will always live with you. That's what you get to take with you. And I think that's a little bit of how we can kind of AI-proof our lives to a degree, is actually be human with other humans and do more of that.

It does. And I think it bleeds over into the, the, the other trend real quick, which is continue to hire an authentic leader. Yeah, you know, like, as you're growing and as you're adding people, and we're talking about the human side and what AI can do and how it can be beneficial, of course, but no matter what, based on the generations coming in, you need to understand what kind of leader is going to get the out of your people and continue to support your growth, right? Your business is changing. I'm sure you're looking at how do we need to change as a business to stay up and to be competitive. And knowing that with that, we're bringing people to support it. But it's that authentic leader that is going to continue to help you grow, help you get to that next level that opens the door to the conversations, that also holds people accountable because they've opened the door to those conversations.

Exactly.

Right.

Yeah.

That has that human connection and factor and that remains curious as well and isn't afraid to take the right risks. That is, that is a trend. That is something that as we interview leaders and we're put into positions of hiring in the next, the next director, VP, or C-level individual, so much of it is around that, the touchy-feely stuff. It's around not only do we want them to grow the business, of course, us, but they are here to rally the people, get them excited, connect with them, understand them. A robot isn't— AI isn't going to be able to find that leader because it requires so much more digging and understanding who they are.

Yeah, and they're not gonna— AI can't be that leader, right? Right. You know, not only can they not find them, but they can't— they can't— they're not replace that quality. And I think the last thing I just wanna pull out of what you just said, that was such a beautiful summary of just what it means to be authentic, right? Especially as, like you said, a leader of humans. Oh my goodness. Like just to me, nothing matters more, but it's, it's just that realization that, um, you don't have to, we keep saying touchy-feely, that is not mutually exclusive with results.

Right, right.

Like, you, you still can be a really warm and connected and empathic and caring leader and have extremely high standards of expectation, um, holding people accountable. So that's something I hear a lot too, or just this feeling like, well, those two things, like, oh, we're not gonna be touchy-feely. And I'll be like, why not? Because when you show that much care for people, they want to show up for you.

They do.

Right. And that's this big kind of paradigm shift, I think, that we've been talking about that is happening. And so, yeah, I'm just like, so I don't know if the answer is we all got to go to therapy and work our inner stuff out. I'm not exactly sure, but I'm also not at all opposed to therapy. I think it can be very helpful. But I think it's really, really important because also you and I really have loved talking with you, by the way. I'm like, oh, now I got to get to Minneapolis and come and see Alyssa and see where you're at. But we're also talking about creating the kind of world I want to live in. Yeah. When I step foot on Main Street here in my little town, I want to bump into humans that human well. Yeah, you know, I don't want rigid, uncaring people lacking in compassion and lacking in empathy. I don't want to do life with people like that.

I don't either, you know.

And so our workplaces need to reflect, I think, the kind of world that we want to live in. And it's very clear to me after spending this time with you that you and your team at Grace Search and Strategy are doing exactly that.

Yeah, thank you. We are, and we love it. It's so fun and it's so fun to help businesses grow and to see their potential and to be, you know, listen, we're empathetic too, and to be able to talk to them openly about these, some of these challenges and for them to, you know, kind of, you meet in the middle and you meet them, you meet them and you help them. And we've been a part of some incredible stories in helping organizations grow in rural areas. And, um, all over the US, which is pretty cool. Um, so it's a lot of fun and we love it. We love working with people.

Thank you so much for being the kind of human that I get so excited to get to know.

Well, thank you. It's been so fun today chatting with you. I really appreciate it. I'm so glad we met.

Me too. Thanks so much, Alyssa.

Thanks.

We hope you loved this episode of the Growing Small Towns show. We encourage you to leave us messages at 701-203-3337. And be sure to subscribe to our newsletter at growingsmalltowns.org. In the meantime, keep doing what you can with what you have right where you are, your community. The seed needs you. Because we are growing small towns. We are growing small towns. We're right here living our best life. It's crazy as it sounds, but we are growing small towns, growing small towns. We are growing small towns. We are growing small towns.