S5:E9 - Small-Town People Problems: Competition

You are listening to the Growing Small Towns Show, a podcast dedicated to supporting you, the person who really cares about the future of your small town. We believe when people get better, everything gets better, and our episodes offer the ideas and actions that prioritize people and small communities. Thank you for listening. We're so glad you're here. Well, hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Growing Small Town Show. Uh, today you get me. Um, I'm not a, a stranger to solo casts and you are not a stranger to listening to them. Um, but this new season, one of the things we talked about, um, and it's kind of fun because, um, as I do speaking or I do engagements with You know, whether it's at a conference or it's with a specific group or community that's actually, um, bringing us in to speak, uh, it's fun to have specific prompts, um, specific things that we're, that we're asking everybody that we talk to so that we can help address them if possible. And one of those prompts, um, well, I'll tell you, I'll just remind you friends, there's two things. One is what are you really proud of in your small town that nobody else seems to care about, let us shout it out for you. We literally have a phone number. All you gotta do is call and tell us about it and we'll shout you out. You have heard on this new season a small town shout out in every single episode. And that's just really a fun way, I think, to celebrate because, um, we famously don't do that enough in small communities. Okay. The second thing, um, and which is really at the core of why we started Growing Small Towns in the first place, It's because we genuinely believe that when people get better, everything gets better. And so I think there is, um, I, this is swirling around in my brain. I mean, again, if you've hung out with us for any amount of time, you know that my brain just kind of functions like this. Um, I've often said that very few things land lightly on my brain, so I tend to think deeply. About things. I, in no way is that suggesting that I'm smart. It just means I think a lot about stuff. And, and I really am so fascinated as I think about the future of our communities and I think about the people that are in them. We're living in this time when artificial intelligence is, is rapidly changing the world in which we live. And I've said this before, I'm probably never gonna stop. We'll see if eventually like AI takes over and this message gets drowned out. But ChatGPT is going to get so good at pretending to human that we're not going to be able to tell the difference. And so more and more I think, okay, well, what does that mean for us? Right? It doesn't mean— it doesn't mean that AI is going to completely replace all humans. But I think we'd be lying to ourselves if we didn't recognize that there are some jobs that are more at risk. And I think, I think a, a better way to maybe think about it, or maybe a less frightening way to think about it is it's not, it's AI is not just going to take away jobs, it's going to replace previously necessary skills. So there are certain skill sets, uh, I think about certain industries and this, by the way, like if you belong to one of these industries, please do not feel like targeted in any way. I, there's elements of this in kind of a lot of the work that we do, but like marketing, um, being able to write successful sales copy, sales copywriting, um, was actually a very specific skill that a person can hone. Now, I, I am still gonna argue and like advocate for all day long the creativity that goes into writing, but we've got to be honest, uh, with ourselves about this. AI is is gonna replace a lot of that. It's already replacing so many things that we used to seek out a person to help us do. And even though that's kind of scary on its face, I think for rural communities, we actually just a few weeks ago did an episode with Scott Meyer. I really encourage you to listen to that one 'cause we talk about how rural communities, it can actually help us. You know, I'll just say this, I use ChatGPT in my life kind of as a brainstorming buddy. Because like if I'm sitting there and it's 3 in the morning, which I'm famously waking, I will famously wake up at 3 in the morning and then my brain, if my brain starts racing and I really wanna like talk something out with somebody, there's nobody in my house that's gonna get up and talk through anything with me at 3 in the morning. That's facts. And so I can go to ChatGPT and treat it like a buddy. Please don't feel sad for me. I swear I do have real friends. I don't use ChatGPT just as a friend, but I use it, I use it as a thought partner. So that's just one small way that it actually, it actually can help kind of build up our capacity, especially in rural places where certain skills and certain, uh, like specific individuals may not exist. Like certain professional lenses may not exist. So, okay, I went way down on a rant about AI. I didn't intend to do that, but it speaks to this prompt that I'm about to share with you. And then, um, we're gonna talk through. My take and kind of the take of a lot of people as I've, you know, built up my network of people that wanna see small towns thrive. Um, our answer to this, to this specific thing that somebody brought to me, but the people prompt or the prompt that I'm asking people is simply this: what is the biggest people challenge that you feel like you're facing in your community? And I, I love this because people are what is going to make or break our towns. I, I actually believe that is a full stop statement. And, and you know what, I've been taken to task on this. So if you listen to this and you're like, yeah, no, it's more about infrastructure, or it's more about, you know, attracting the next manufacturing plant, it's more about, I don't know, pick a thing, anything, right? That, that maybe sounds easier to measure and has more defined ROI. And I'm gonna like probably within 7 degrees of separation be able to say, yeah, okay, but this is how This is how people affect that, or this is how, 'cause again, we are the ones that are gonna figure these things out. And so I think, again, in this situation with AI and just how much of our skills are going to get kind of outsourced to technology in, in the name of efficiency, we have an obligation to get better at humaning. Like we actually have an obligation to do that. We have a, we have an obligation to get better at engaging with each other socially, primarily in person because that is the one space that AI cannot and will not hijack because it doesn't, it doesn't exist there, right? Everything that we're doing digitally, and yes, AI might take over most of our digital communication. You know, I, I think there's some truth to that and it doesn't scare me because I still know that at people's core, there's a lot of stuff that they want to look you in the eyeballs. To either discuss, to buy, um, negotiation happens eyeball to eyeball. Like there's so many things that happen eyeball to eyeball. And so I'm gonna continue to say we need to continue to develop our own skills. And, and, and again, like if, so I've got 3 children. Um, my oldest is gonna be 16 here next week, which is astounding. My, I have a 13-year-old and a 10-year-old. Um, one of the things I, as, as a parent, one of my things, you know, we all have our things that we like wanna really make sure we instill in our children besides just like a baseline level of decency and stuff. Like that's, that's all the thing. I, I am so adamant that they learn how to communicate in person because we just, we can't get pissed that they can't or don't. We have to actually understand that they haven't practiced it. It is not the way they're communicating with one another. So they're outta practice with this, right? So this whole people skills thing, it sounds so trite and so fluffy and so hard to pin down as having any real value. And I will just continue to say, yeah, but what about this? And what about that? And how does it feel when that happens? And all of these moments where we have some of the biggest impacts are, are moments that happen in person with people. So back to the prompt. That was the longest lead up of all time. It's not really an intro because I'm solo casting and this is what we do here. So if you're still hanging with me, here was the prompt. It again is, what's the biggest people challenge that you face in your community? And, um, I'm dedicating, you know, at least a couple of episodes every single season just to, to touching on those. I, this one I felt like I've had enough firsthand experience with that I decided I could handle this one alone. Um, we've got a couple other ones that are gonna be in the hopper here that I'm bringing in some backup., and we'll talk through things that they've seen. But okay, here it is. It literally ver— word for word what the person wrote down was, neighboring towns are still treating us, as in the town they live in, like competition instead of working together. Ah, if, if you, if you are in a small community and, and I would say like this specifically is a, is an issue or a challenge that I think plagues, rural, like a cluster of rural communities that are a, a late, like a little bit farther from a big community. So my little town, we are 70 miles, a little over 70 miles from the closest Target. Um, and we're 110 miles from the biggest city in North Dakota. And so we really are a region of small communities around us. Okay. So th— this, I think this can apply, but I think when you're talking about your neighbor, like if you're 20 minutes outside of a metro, This doesn't, this, I don't think this looks exactly the same. And again, take me to task, that's fine. I'm, I'm always open to having my mind changed, but that's where I really see this playing out and being this mind, this mindset of like, we don't, we don't work with them because they're them and they're 20 minutes, 30 minutes, 40 minutes away from us. Okay. So the first, the first thing I wanna do is just share with you, um, a few mindset shifts that I think are really necessary here because that is a really old school way of thinking. Um, and I think what comes along with that is that nostalgia for the glory days when each of our towns maybe was a bit more self-sufficient on its own. Um, you know, over the past even couple of decades, the way that resources have shifted, the way the demographics have shifted, the way our communities look, Um, very few of our individual communities are 100% self-sufficient anymore. I mean, there's, it's just, it just, the landscape just looks different. So I think it's really important to challenge or maybe to update some of the mindsets or, or the thoughts that we have about this topic. So there's 3 that I wanna share with you. Uh, and the first one is this, your town is not going to win if the town next to you loses. I, I've, I've heard, I've heard this kind of, it's, and it's dangerous to me. So I think it's important to call out. So let's just run out that scenario, right? So again, I live in, I live in a town, 1,800 people. Our county seat is 30 miles, about 30 miles from here. Uh, quite a bit smaller community, but it's our county seat, right? There's a lot of weird dynamics between our towns in a lot of respects, I think. Um, and I've heard people, local people to me, actually just make the, like, the flippant comment like, well, I, you know, maybe one day Ellendale just— and now that I just said the town, I was gonna try really hard not to say the town, but again, I'm talking, this is reality. Okay. Sorry, I wasn't gonna say it, but again, if you know where I'm at, you would know my county seat. You also could look it up 'cause we talk about it all the time. Allendale, people will say like, oh, maybe one day Allendale just kind of fall in a hole in itself and then the, the county seat can move here. I've heard people say that and I look at them and I think if, if that happens and Allendale completely falls apart, and I, I don't know their exact population, I think it's a little over 1,000, I think is about right. Um, don't, please don't quote me on that, but let's even say that's true, right? Where do you think those 1,000 people are gonna move to if like something catastrophic happens and life ceases to have meaning there, right? Or even if half of 'em move away, because they'll always be like the people that hang on, right? And they're not, they're just not gonna move. And that's the thing. Do you think they're coming to your town? Do you think they're coming, they're gonna move a half an hour away? Because what it, what it, it, it has this feeling in this sense of a dying region because It is. Those people are more than likely going to move out of your region entirely. So if you're a county-level person, they're moving outta your county. They're not just moving to the community next door. That's, that's not how it works. And so, um, I get, I get this desire to want your community to win. I, it makes so much sense, but like if, if a neighboring town is doing something really well, that you can learn from. Again, going back to this resource-strapped nature of our work, why, why would you not wanna reach out and be like, hey, how'd you guys do this? And then kind of the, the other piece of this with this, your, your town's not gonna win if the town next to you loses, is like attraction, people, human, human attraction, people attraction, whether we're talking about residents or visitors, it really does depend upon a strong region. Again, especially if you're not closely connected to or nearby a big city, they, they're likely gonna need to depend on some of the communities around you to get some of those things met. So that's the first one. Your town's, your town's not gonna win at another town's expense if they're in your region. The Growing Small Towns Show is recorded locally at the Growing Small Towns podcast studio located in Oakes, North Dakota. It's produced by Pheasant Canteen Studio in Aberdeen, South Dakota, with marketing support from Cassidy Johnston in Canyon City, Colorado. Our intro music was created and produced exclusively for Growing Small Towns by James Bergman, singer and songwriter from Fargo, North Dakota. Local and small, it's what we support and it's who we love. Get your community a shout out on the podcast. Call 701-203-3337 and share your small town success that you just don't feel is being celebrated quite enough, and let us shout you out. You can also share your biggest people challenge, and we'll dedicate an episode to offering ideas to help. Hell, you can basically tell us anything and we'll do what we can to answer. We can't wait to hear from you. Today's small town shout out is Vergas, Minnesota. So apparently something's in the water in Vergas. Uh, this person shared with me that it is the kind of community that every every single business that you walk into, you can feel their community pride. She shared that several years earlier, they're just a group of people came together, the business owners came together and decided that they were going to be more than just a tourist town, but they were really going to focus. They live there in Lakes Country in Minnesota, that they were also going to focus on what it feels like for the people that live there every single day. And she said she encouraged me, knowing what I do here on the podcast, to visit Vergas. She said, and I dare you, walk into any single business on Main Street in Vergas. You will get the very felt sense that they want you there and that you belong there. And that is kind of what it's all about, isn't it, friends? So big ol' shout out to Vergas, Minnesota. Uh, number 2, uh, we actually just came back, uh, about a week ago from the Class B state tournament for boys basketball. Our boys in my little town went to the state tournament for the first time in 30 years. It was a very, very exciting time. Along with our community, there was another local community from our region. Um, and I, I watched, I watched this dynamic play out. Um, this might get me some flack. People may not appreciate this comment. So here we go. I'm just gonna say like, just because the Eagles stole the basketball championship from you in 1983 and you hated the point guard that you had to, had to deal with, had to defend with a passion, it doesn't mean that now that that person has moved back to their respective town, the home of the Eagles, naturally, and they're like running a business over there, that you have to carry that high school basketball hatred over into adulthood. In fact, I'm going to submit that maybe we need to grow the hell up a little bit, okay? So this idea of small town competition, it is mighty. And like, again, I just said, like, our, in North Dakota, our small towns are considered Class B. There, there are so many people that travel to the location of the Class B tournaments depending on the sport that they love, right? Uh, no matter if their team's playing or not, just because they love the fierce competition. It is fierce and it's mighty and it's awesome. But that spirit needs to be left on the court, on the field, on the track. It really has no place on Main Street. And I, I say that and it sounds, it's like it hits people's brains in such an unpopular way. And, and yet it's like, again, go, go at it when you're rivals in sports, but when it comes to sharing resources, when it comes to being a great place to live in a broader sense than just the four walls of your town, you need each other. Okay. And then number 3, uh, your town likely relies on the residents of your neighboring communities to patronize your businesses. And when relationships are prioritized and intentionally built, they, they actually will want to come over. So I, again, I am saying these things is these seem like such a no-brainer to me, but I guess it bears repeating because this is, this was a comment that somebody made like, this is still a big problem for us. A main street, we all know this, like a main street business or really any business in a community, they can't survive typically just on the foot traffic from their residents alone. We really need the neighbors to come over. So, I mean, I think what this means is, are we thinking about the towns around us as our neighbors? Are we treating them like we would neighbors within our own neighborhood? And maybe that's is the frame to take into this. Okay. So I, I wanted to share those, just some like mindset shifts about this topic. And then I wanna give you 3, actually we're gonna say 4. I ha— I have 4. I've got a few notes to try to keep my thoughts together here for you guys. But, uh, 4 really specific actions, uh, that you can take because I also think action's helpful, right? Um, but I would be remiss if I didn't remind you that as humans, you won't take actions that don't align with what you actually think, feel, and believe. And so that's why mindset shi— mind— set shifts— whoo, almost dropped a big unnecessary swear on the podcast. Um, I feel like if a swear gets dropped on a podcast, it always has a necessary placement, you know, FYI. Uh, but if you don't address the actual shifts that have to happen in the mind, the actions actually can be kind of hollow. Um, that's how humans work. Um, we take actions based on what we actually believe. Okay, so Action step number 1, uh, why don't you go visit them for real? When was the last time you got in your car and you drove to the neighboring community and did it at a time where like there would maybe be some opportunity that the businesses would be open? So not necessarily like on a Sunday afternoon, right? Where, um, a lot of our businesses aren't open, but go and explore the communities around you, uh, hit up their shops and follow their social media pages. If you've gone to one of those businesses, take the time to go out and give them a follow. And then one of the things, of course, you can just do is, you know, if you love them, you love your experience, give 'em a shout out, share their stuff. And, and also, you know, again, depending on who you are, you know, actually connect with people that own it. It, it's, it's actually stu— it's, it's super, super cool. And that actually leads into number 2. I, as a person, um, that does this kind of work here in Oaks, and then I have a, I have technically, I have a physical business here in Oaks. I love getting connected to the people in the communities around me that are also running businesses. I like to actually get to know them. And just for the record, going back to this high school sports thing, two of my favorite people that run, one runs a business, one runs a nonprofit. One is actually in Ellendale, uh, like I was telling you about. And then the other one, I actually had to guard her. So this point guard thing, I wasn't, we were not point guards, we were big We, we played in the paint. That was our job. I guarded her and she played for Ellendale. She now lives in another town, runs an amazing boutique coffee shop. She and I have had beautiful conversations about the hard nature of being a mom and a business owner and a person in a small town that feels like they might move through the world a bit quicker, right? Like it's awesome. And like our competition was very, very fierce when I was young and we were playing basketball. I would be, I would, my life would be not as rich if I didn't know these two women. And so I really encourage you to connect with people like you in other towns. And by like you, I mean even just start with, um, maybe like industry or the, the scope of your work. So I'm a business owner, I like to frequent other businesses, right? Um, we have an amazing chamber gal here. Kasia's fantastic. Getting her connected with the other chamber people. If you do economic development, connect with the other economic development people. You run a boutique, you should know the boutiques and the stores around you, not just because they're your competition, but because if you're gonna try to attract a cartload of women to come down from Fargo and they can drive through Lisbon, they can drive through Enderlin, they can drive it through other communities on the way here, and we can tell them that we can make an entire day of it for them and it makes it worth their drive other than just being like, I'm coming to your little town for one thing. I mean, this like actually does make sense, doesn't it? I, I feel like it does. I also think what's, what's cool is then consider like, what if you got to know a handful of these people that do the same thing as you in other towns and you hosted just an informal casual gathering of those people to say, hey, what could we do that would be unique that we could work together? Because again, I like, we host a lot of events here at the chamber offices in my space. We commiserate a lot, uh, me and Kasha do about, I should say Kasha and I, that's proper grammar. Excuse me. We commiserate a lot about how hard it is to get your stuff seen, to get people to show up. When you have multiple groups promoting the same thing, the chances of more people attending, it goes up even if they're going to other communities. Um, and this isn't just anecdotal. I've seen it. I've seen it happen. I've seen it work. Number 3, if you hear about something going on in another community and you think you could offer some support or help to help them navigate it, like maybe it's something you've already done, or maybe there's a contact that you have, like, you know, and I'm going to give you an example here, but reach out and offer it. Now, I'm going to tell you how this went for me. I will not tell you that the community in this case, because it's, it didn't, it didn't go the way I had hoped. Um, but I, I still stand behind, uh, the choice and the action that I took, and I still would recommend it as a bit of advice for you if you're trying to build these connections. So, um, a community nearby, um, they were dealing with a specific challenge. Again, I'm, I'm not, I don't wanna get clear cuz I, I don't wanna call 'em out. Um, but they were dealing with a specific challenge and I had been working with some consultants. A great group of people, like outside of the state, right? And these people, to my knowledge, had never met them or worked with them. And so, uh, the, the 4 people I knew that were involved with this thing that I had met, right? I, and that's the other thing, guys, I had already, like, I knew these people. So I had done, I've done a lot of that legwork, like to go around and meet who these people are. It does take a lot of time, but again, if what we're trying to do is build a stronger region, it works and it's important. So I sent them, I sent them a message and I simply said, you know, hey guys, they're all gentlemen. I was like, guys, I heard that you're kind of working on this. You know, I would be happy to share our experience with this group so far. Um, I know you know about them, but if you wanna sit down, like I will come over and talk to you. I will sit down and just share everything that we learned. Now again, with the intention of being helpful, supportive and collaborative. Not a single one of those gentlemen even replied to my email. They legitimately didn't even reply to say, hey, thanks, thanks so much for reaching out, thanks so much for offering, um, we've got it, we're, we're, you know, we know what we're gonna do, we feel confident about our plan, blah blah, like, or just, hey, thanks Rebecca, like, that would have been super rad. They didn't do that. Now, does that Does that alter the way I think about them? Damn straight it does. I mean, I, I'm not superhuman. I, I, I think it's pretty poor form. So I guess that's the flip side of this is if you get an offer like that, even if you're like, I would never take you up on that, thank them for the, for the offer. Cuz it takes effort, right? But I just think like we're, we're learning things every single day and if we can help other people, why wouldn't we offer that? And then the fourth is simply, uh, it kind of hearkens back to what I said in number 2, which is like, think about maybe creating, you know, having a casual hang where you get together and you brainstorm creative ways to collaborate. Uh, there's a specific podcast episode, um, from, from quite a bit back that I wanna call out. It was episode number 107, uh, with Melissa Nelson. She has this, had this really cool concept called the Rural Route Ramble. And again, it's very similar to what I just kind of alluded to where you would like create a day, or I think, I think there might have been a multi-day event, but it was, it was curated with really specific businesses. They had really specific goals for what they were doing, and then they marketed it all together and it, it went to several towns and several businesses. And so you're, the people participating in it weren't just coming to your one community, they were going to multiple communities as all part of this creative collaborative event. Um, you can put together like a, a whole loop of cool, unique things for to do with like the besties in your neighboring towns. And it, again, it tells the audience or anybody that might be coming, um, that when you move to your small town, you're not just becoming a part of your community, but you're becoming a part of a broader, bigger region. Um, and that's, I think that's really special and I think that's really important because again, we're resource strapped. I'm gonna give another random example. My daughter who's 10, she has taken dance classes a few times. They kind of have a, you know, like a series of seasons that they do lessons. They're in a town 20 miles away. Now I've gotten to know the woman that hosts them. I've had her over here to my building. We've had lunch, we've had, we've gotten together. It's, nobody offers dance classes in my community. And so, you know, we've gotta really recognize that, you know, if we want our kids to have a richer, fuller, and, and ourselves too as adults, or kind of a richer, fuller experience where we can do some of the things that if you ever lived in a big city and you miss some of that stuff, you do need to figure out what's going on around you. Uh, another thing I can think about is, um, the gal, the gal that runs, and again, she's now become, she's become a friend. Her spouse or partner has become a friend. And, um, she one time held a belly dancing class in a town 30 miles away. I mean, that, that wasn't necessarily on that year's bingo card, like, ooh, like, ooh, you know what I need to do is learn how to belly dance. That's not the point. The point was just the fact that it was something I'd never done before. I took some girls with me and it was so freaking fun. There wasn't anybody offering that here. And that is like, that is locked away as a key memory and it's because we had built connections, rapport, and relationships with people in the town next door. So, um, I hope a few of these ideas, thoughts, I hope they not only encourage you but maybe challenge you to think a little bit differently about this. Uh, I famously gave up economic development at the end of '24. I encountered this mindset of just, they are straight up our competition, we will not share This tribal knowledge, this protect our genius BS. It's BS because you know what? Again, I'm gonna go back to the reason I think people matter so much. I, you know, I could give another community the entire playbook for what we've done in Oaks. Like Oaks is a great, our little town is great. We could share, and I do, I mean, I think everything we've done, I pretty much share willingly on here because I believe in the power of this. It's up to the people to take it, to run with it, to make it what's theirs. And it won't look exactly the same because the people aren't the same. So what if instead of treating every outside person, even the neighboring communities, as outsiders and something to be afraid of or people to fear, what if we treated them like partners, collaborators, and we treated them with hope? And the whole relationship with Hope, and we were open and honest and giving and loving and we shared, just what on earth would happen? This mentality of our neighbors are competitors only, it's damaging, it's unhelpful, and frankly, it makes the nature of this work where we're already running thin, it makes it so much harder. And friends, it doesn't have to be that way. So I look forward to hearing your stories of collaboration, your stories of working together. Um, I, cuz I just think it's beautiful. And, um, again, I think it's the entire goal. We're trying to get either people to come and visit or people to come and move here. When we are in a strong region, people can sense that. Um, okay. The last thing I'll leave for you is if there is a people challenge in your community that you would love either me to riff on, which is, it's not always gonna be the thing. Sometimes, like I said, I'll bring in somebody that I know that can really speak to, to answers or to ideas. Um, please just, again, that phone number, I don't have it printed because I'm a terrible podcast host. We will make sure that it's in the show notes. We will make sure that it's in socials. That number is meant for those two things, either the celebrations of something in your town or your people challenges. We really want to hear from you. Okay, friends, keep doing what you do in small towns. We need you, friends. Have a great day, and we'll see you next time. We hope you loved this episode of the Growing Small Towns show. We encourage you to leave us messages at 701-203-3337. And be sure to subscribe to our newsletter at growingsmalltowns.org. In the meantime, keep doing what you can with what you have right where you are. Your community needs you. Because we are Growing Small Towns. We are growing small towns. We're right here living our best lives, as crazy as it sounds. But we are growing small towns. Growing small towns. We are growing small towns. We are growing small towns.