Paula Rizzo talks with book-publishing coach Rachelle Fredson about turning your work into a book. They cover writing proposals, finding agents, choosing between traditional and self-publishing, and building a platform through social media and podcasting.
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Hey there, welcome to Inside Scoop. I'm Paula Rizzo. We're talking about one of my favorite topics today, books. Being an author can really boost your platform, boost your brand, boost your message. It's really exciting, but it can be difficult to get started and the process can seem daunting, right? You have to write a proposal, you have to get an agent, you have to do the publishing thing. Can be a little intimidating. I mean, I get it. I've written 2 books. I have 1 coming up, a fiction book that I'm working on, so it's a little bit different, but I understand the struggle and I get asked all the time, "How do you write a book? How do you do this?" There are so many pieces to this. So I wanted to start at the beginning with the idea, with what this could do for you and your brand and your business and you as a professional, right? You know, you don't have to be working as an entrepreneur to have a book or, you know, have a huge platform. So we're going to talk to a friend of mine who is an expert in this. I'm going to bring her on in just a moment. And we're going to talk all about how to amplify your work with books. I have a resource for you because being an author about list making, I have to tout the lists, of course, that will help you to— if you want to be an author, you want to create something in any platform, taking control of your to-do list will help you to do that. So my freebie is my checklist for, um, for becoming a go-to media expert because you want to also make sure that you actually get your stuff out there into the world. So if you go to paularizzo.com/checklist, you know, I talk all about media training and videos and how you can put this stuff on your to-do list to be able to make sure that, you know, you write a book that people actually want to hear and hear from you about. And, and that you can, you can find out there. I'm also a LinkedIn Learning instructor. I have lots of courses on there, lists, of course, lots and lots of lists, the power of lists to get Get Stuff Done. If you go to linkedinlearning.com, you can check that out. And also, um, you know, some of the other courses are, are things about how you can be more productive when working remotely, when working in a hybrid environment, because this is the world that we live in now, right? You have to make sure that you can work wherever you are. So those courses are on LinkedIn Learning, or you can check, check them out on my website at paularizzo.com/linkedin. And I want to hear from you throughout the broadcast, so whether you're watching the replay or you're here with us live, Check out those chat boxes below. Tell a friend who might be interested in writing a book or being an author, tag them below. Ask questions throughout. We're going to save the questions for the end, but even if you're watching the replay, leave your questions here and we'll get back to them. And, uh, I would love to introduce you to my friend Rachelle Fredson, who is a book publishing expert, a coach, and the host of the podcast Bound and Determined, which I have been Paula Rizzo, a guest on Thank You Very Much. Good to see you.
Good to see you. Thanks for having me.
Of course. So in our former lives, right, me as a TV producer and you as a publicist at a big, you know, book publishing company, we worked together for a very long time. We booked a lot of segments together. We did a lot of stuff. And now here we are on the, you know, next act of our lives, helping people to amplify their voices and to get out there in the world. You with, with books, and we do share some clients, which is very nice actually. Uh, but what is it that— what is the lore of the book? What, what is it that that does for someone that makes it so much like this amazing pie-in-the-sky thing?
I think that it's just this level of gravitas, right? It's a, it's a level of achievement to have published a book. And like, you know, from going through the process several times, is that it's no easy feat, but the payoff, the benefits are so great that it's absolutely worth it. So we can look at, you know, writing books for healing or for storytelling or for something really emotional. But what I, I love to talk about is, is creating impact in our business through books. Because for so many people, you know, maybe they're, they're coaches or they're CEOs or their offerings are more high price point. For book lovers and for people who want to introduce their work via books, it's a low price point entryway to get in. Into your teaching. It's, it's an introduction of what you do. It's to get people sort of integrated into the work that you do so that then perhaps you have a client for life. You have somebody who's going to come and take advantage of your programs or your other offerings. So it's pretty low risk at the end of the day. Yes, it's a process that doesn't happen overnight. It takes time to write and publish a book. But again, the payoff is so great for growing your network and it opens a ton of doors. For speaking, for panels, for PR. So it's sort of this thing that will serve a lot of different purposes in your business and help introduce you to newer markets.
Yeah. And it's that gold star, right? It's that little gold star on your resume that you get to— you know, people used to say, oh, it's a glorified business card. You know, uh, depends, right? Depends on what kind of book you decide to write. Uh, yeah.
And we want you to be teaching. We don't want it— you know, we don't want you to phone it in in your book. You know, that's— no, quick way to not have the success you're hoping for.
So it's got to be substantial. Exactly. It has to be something that people need, that people want, which we're going to talk about. How do you write a book that actually will be helpful to other people and not just self-serving? Because that's important. But also, a lot of people— this happens all the time. Every book signing I've ever done, every book event, "Oh, I want to write a book too. Oh, it's on my to-do list. Oh, that's on my bucket list." And then people don't do it. They just don't. There's so few, really. I mean, it feels like there's a million books out in the world, but there are really so few that actually get traditionally published at the end end of the day. What stops people?
Yeah, I mean, there's, there's the feels, right? So let's start there, because there isn't anyone that's immune to these sort of 3 points of resistance. One is overwhelm, right? People go, okay, I have a book idea, or I desire to write a book, but I don't know where to start. There's a lot of conflicting information out there. There's a general lack of transparency when it comes to the publishing space and what's required to actually break through and get your agent and your publisher and your publishing deal. Um, but really, it's like, there's so many options, where do I begin? That's That's sort of the first step that keeps people from going, "Eh, too much work," or, "I just don't know where to start, so I'm going to skip it." Then there's vulnerability, and that's when you realize, "Oh gosh, okay, I've committed to this thing and now I've got to show up for it." I have to actually do it now. I've got to do the thing. And part of that's hard because a lot of entrepreneurs and business folks that I know are where they are because of a personal journey. So some of the best books that we probably know and love are a blend of that personal story meets the professional experience. So they're going, oh gosh, people are going to see me in a new way, or they're going to hear something about me that they don't know yet, and that's vulnerable. And then the third point is comparison. Oh, you know, there's already 20 books on the market that cover this topic. Who am I to write this, right? Oh, so-and-so wrote their book, so I guess I better hurry up and write my book, right? Wrong motive. So there's all these emotional components that keep people from getting started, and, and logistically too. But I think a lot of people make the decision to write a book without doing the groundwork first.
Oh, and right, they just say like, oh, I'm gonna do it, let me go, and I'm gonna write this thing and everybody's gonna love it. Wrong.
Because they're writing a book that they want to write, but the book should be what you want to write with what people actually want from you. And there's very often a gap in there. Yeah. And that's why social media and platform and all those things are so important to a publisher, because not only do they want you to have built the community but they want you to use the community as a focus group for the book's content.
Totally. Totally. See what— if they like it, how they react. I mean, I found that, you know, I started a blog 10 years ago about list-making. Listproducer.com is, I mean, the reason why— I never thought that that would become then my full-time job. You never know what's going to happen, but it was a great way to put my ideas out there and see if other people were interested in list-making in the way that I was and if people needed help with it. And it's interesting because what you were saying brought up a memory of talking to my first publisher and I had written a proposal because I'm traditionally published. I had to write a proposal and I had to send it out to agents and publishers because that's the route that you take. And I had been writing the blog for about 4 years. And so my writing had sort of gone beyond the 101 of what I had talked about in the beginning. And so it was— the book that I had written the proposal for was sort of like the part where I was right now in the second phase. You know what I mean? And she read it and she had, for a long time, been a follower of my blog, which is another great thing. You can get people interested in writing blogs and doing videos. And she said, "I love it, but people aren't ready for that yet. You went through the journey, so you're there, but they're not. They're still in the blog page one. So you got to write that book first." And I'm like, "Oh." Okay, fine. Even though for me I was kind of like done talking about those things, they hadn't all heard it yet.
So, you know, that's words, by the way, from an author, like, I'm already done talking about this, I'm on to the next idea. But you're exactly right, because never assume people already know what you know. So, you know, that's why publishers love to see first books from authors be really directly tied to their core brand or business. And start them at the beginning, right? There will be book 2 and book 3. You can't jump to step 10 in book 1 because people will have feel that they— that feel that they failed, right? We're setting them up for failure if we're not starting them from the beginning so that they too can have their evolution. Mm-hmm.
For sure. For sure. And, you know, I know there's a lot of people who are— who say, hey, I'm just gonna self-publish it and put it out into the world. And, you know, it's fine. Self-publishing is great, and it's wonderful that we have that. You know, you and I both come sort of from the traditionally published And so that is what we're bullish on. But I find when people want to self-publish, it's like, you better have the platform to sell that book because otherwise it is too hard to do on your own, I think.
I hear a lot that people say, I don't want to develop the platform. Either it doesn't bring me joy to do it or I don't know how to do it. And I don't want to wait for the timeline of what it takes to build a platform. So I'm going to go and self-publish. But if you self-publish without a platform, you have zero customers.
Yeah.
So the platform is actually more important in self-publishing than it is in traditional publishing where you're going to get a little bit of support. And in self-publishing, look, self-publishing is great for a lot of people, but you have to invest in a lot of different parties to make that product be professional if it's going to be a reflection of your business. So I don't think people take into account really all the people that need to touch that product to make it happen.
Yeah, for sure. And media, the worlds that we come from, now things are different. And so if you have a self-published book, it's totally fine. I mean, I booked people who had self-published books even when I was working in TV 5 years ago or whatever it was. It's a little bit more mainstream. But really, that seal of approval from a traditional publisher is still real. And it's something that a TV producer will look at and say, "Okay, there's 2 experts who are totally exactly the same. And one has a book that's traditionally published, one is self-published, or one doesn't even have a book." And the person who's going to get the through is probably the one who is, you know, traditionally published. Um, let's talk a little bit about the, the path. Like, since we are talking about traditionally publishing, the, the path is, you know, you write that proposal, you get an agent, and then that agent shops it for you. I had a different path. I did write the proposal, I found the publisher, just so happened because she was reading my blog, which was wonderful. Does not happen to everyone that way. And, uh, you know, I got a deal, and then I said, oh wait, I have no idea what I'm doing. I I don't know anything about publishing. I should probably get an agent. And so that is sort of how my path went through, but that's not usually how it is. So what is it that agents are looking for when people start to query them?
So they're looking for that platform work to be done, right? So even before the book proposal step, I would say the platform work needs to happen, right? Come to the book proposal knowing what people want from you, what pain point you're solving, why you're the absolute person to do it. Come with your unique framework or whatever it is that you have. Get thought partnership in this process. So that's another big piece is people try and go at it alone, but there's a lot that can happen when you're in thought partnership with somebody to really create a marketable book idea. So what agents and publishers are looking for isn't what people might expect. So some people might think, I need a brand new idea. I need something that's never been discussed before. But what that signals to agents and publishers is that that's a high risk, right? That is a high-risk investment to try and break through a topic that's never been discovered before or isn't, you know, as prominent as they want it to be. So what they're looking for is actually like a fresh spin on a tried and true topic. So what are you bringing to something that's tried and true that is yours? Maybe it's you, your, your unique experience. Maybe it's the way that you approach a topic. Maybe it's how you coach people through it, whatever it is, it's more likely your personal lived experience more than it is your professional trained experience, to be honest with you. So they're looking for, you know, some proof that your audience exists and that they want this from you, and then to prove that there's a market that's ready for it.
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I think a lot of times people will put a lot of pressure on themselves for social media and say like, oh, I don't have enough followers, I don't have enough this, I don't You know, it— sometimes it matters and sometimes it doesn't matter, right? You know, I want to dig in a little bit more on, on social media specifically. Um, but if you're watching right now and you have a question about any part of the publishing process, give us your questions below. We'll get to those at the end because I want to make sure that if there are people out there who are sort of thinking about it or have been thinking about it for a long time, we give them the, the push that they need right now to start doing it. And, you know, Write Book is not something you should put on your to-do list. We have to put little tiny actionable things that then end up being the book. There are many steps to this, right?
Excellent point.
Yes. It's just a little list-making tip right there for you. And I have somebody posted here. Debbie says, your way of list-making is how I think, nothing like many others. Well, great. I'm glad to see that I have a list-making twin out there, Debbie. Thank you for that. And so I want to ask a little bit more about social media specifically. What do people really need to do there? Uh, you know, what is acceptable, unacceptable? What do you think?
The first thing is to think about the platform, uh, in a broader way, more than just social media. So agents and publishers are looking at your platform in buckets. Social media is one of those buckets, but so is email list. So is speaking. So is media and PR. So are brand partnerships. All of those things are relevant when it comes to having a high-value platform. But when it comes to social media, what they really wanna see is that you're already out in the world teaching the thing, that you're out there having conversation, you're not keeping everything close to the vest. That's another sort of first-time author, uh, mistake is that they think, I can't talk about what's going to be in my book because then people won't buy it.
Not the case.
Yes, not the case. So they want to see that you're out there teaching it. They don't want to get a book proposal for an idea that you're not teaching anywhere online because then you don't have that social proof. So you just had to show up regularly, be consistent, create conversation, build community, but teach around what you want to write about.
Yeah. And, and, you know, whether it's a blog or it's a video or, you know, pick however you like to, to do, you know. So if you're not, if you're not super into writing a blog, do a video like this, transcribe it, and then, you know, then you have a blog. There you go. Then you have an email list. But, but creating that stuff, that, that real estate really for yourself is super important. And one of the best actual, uh, pieces of advice that I got was a publishing, uh, person about starting an email list. You know, this was, I don't know, 10, 15 years ago. And she said, you know, start an email list. And I said, for what? What would I do with it? And she's like, just trust me, you're going to want that email list. And I said, all right. And now here I am, like, thank God she told me that, you know, all these years later.
It's so important. It really is the most high-value piece of the platform for your book process, because not just for yourself, because those people are there because they want to hear from you, right? They're, they're engaged, they're, they're waiting for your next offering. But for agents and publishers, they know that those people convert to buyers at a higher rate than social media. So they're, they're names that you own in a sense off of social media. Like if social media goes kaput tomorrow, you know, we don't have access to any of those people. So the email list really is important and they're seeing the conversions to buyers happen at a higher rate there. So it is important. And like you, I have like one core, uh, like I think of platform building is like a pyramid, right? And everyone just needs one tip of the pyramid. Style of content. For me, it's my podcast. For a lot of people, it's blogging or what have you, but you can repurpose that content across all your channels. You don't have to create unique content everywhere you go.
No.
So, you know, just a hack if people need it.
It's true. You know, I do talk to a lot of my media training clients about this too, because they think like, oh, I have to do all this stuff now. Now I become a blogger and an email list. And it's like, no, you do one thing and then you pull everything from it. I do this show and this show then becomes all of the content that we share on social media, on my email list, you know, speaking, media, any of it, it all comes from, from the one piece of content. And I see some questions coming through. So if you have questions, keep, keep them in there because I'm going to get to those in just a second. But I want to ask you a little bit about LinkedIn specifically, because LinkedIn is such a great place to put your thought leadership and put yourself out there. How can authors and potential authors use it sort of like a sounding board?
Yeah, you want to contribute content, right? Agents and publishers are not looking at the number of connections you have necessarily, or, or followers even for that matter. They're looking at how people are engaging with the content that you're putting on the site. So it's really, it, if you need a nudge to be writing or to be showing up on LinkedIn, this is the nudge because they're really looking at how you're delivering the content and how people are responding to it. Yeah.
Yeah. And it, you know, it, it's one of those things where you You don't have to have a blog if you don't want to. You can get on LinkedIn and start posting stuff. And at first, maybe just responding to other people's posts if you're a little bit shy. And then start to create your own content and go from there. So I want to go to the question that just came in from, let's see, Shiva. She says, how much time do you need to put on this everyday project? Oh, OK. So how much time should you put into this? Let's get to the productivity of this.
I think it depends on where you are in the process. Right? So if you're platform building, you, you know, you want to be consistent. You want to make sure that you're maybe 20 minutes a day getting in there, commenting on things or doing a video, something like that. But when it comes to the book creation process, I mean, I tell people when they're going through my programs at least that they need about 2 to 3 hours a week that they're really dedicating to moving the project forward. And what that can look like in a day-to-day perspective especially if you're in the core of writing or, or, or getting creative with what you want your book to be, um, is 20-minute writing sprints 3 times a day. And the reason why I recommend that is 20 minutes in the morning, 20 minutes in the afternoon, 20 minutes in the evening, because what that will help you do is figure out when you're most creative so that you can tap into that time. And that 20 minutes perhaps in the morning becomes 45 minutes, you know. And now you know that the morning is a really great time for me to work on this book. The ideas are flowing. And you can start to schedule out that time a little bit more each, each day or each week. So at the, at the beginning, it's a bit of a game to figure out when your brain is firing in creativity. For me, I would think that that would be the end of the day when I finished all my responsibilities for work, but the truth is I'm burnt out by then. So my morning time is actually my highly creative time, but I didn't get there until I did those 20-minute sprints and figured out where that timing was right for me.
I love this idea of the sprint. I— you're singing my song because I talk a lot about, you know, your own productivity style and knowing when you work best and Putting those tasks that you do better at those times a day, it really optimizes how you do things. And, you know, for me, the same thing. I, I have noticed myself and seen when I work best, and I'm an afternoon gal. So like 2, 3, 4 o'clock, that's when I can, you know, write. That's when I can do stuff. I, I used to think that when I worked in TV, I thought it was because like it was near the end of the day, so I knew that deadline of the— of like, I want to leave my desk, I don't want to sit here all day, you know. I thought that's what it It's not. It's just that's how I am. And so now that I work for myself, I do batch when I write. And I typically do it on Fridays because for me it's like a fun outlet that I can do. And that's how I wrote my second book, Listful Living. I had a deadline. I had my business and all my other stuff going on. And I was like, "How am I going to fit this in?" So Fridays were my day. And I was very specific about what I did with that time. It wasn't just like, "Okay, I'm going to just write from 2 to 4." I knew exactly what piece of that book, what part, chapter 1, this is what I'm doing. It was very, very specific. So I would say to also know, have a roadmap. And it's different with nonfiction. You work with authors who are nonfiction authors. Fiction and nonfiction are very different. So you have to find a system that works for you. But having written 2 nonfiction books, it's like you have to have that outline perfect. And that is the proposal process. Process. So it's great to go through that, even if you are self-publishing, to have that roadmap for yourself so you know exactly where you're going, what your intentions are, and how you're gonna— how you're gonna get there.
100%.
Shiva says, yes, exactly. He was feeling it.
So awesome.
We want to hear— we want to hear what, what book you end up writing over there. Uh, and if, if anybody else has any other questions, let us, let us know. We're happy to, to answer them. I have one more productivity question for you. Yeah. Just about the procrastination factor. I mean, I'm sure that you get a lot of clients who then will hire you because they're like, this is the impetus to then do.
Right?
If I— I need the accountability. Yeah. Accountability. I put some money in the game. This is going to make me do it. But what is it that really will push people over the edge in your opinion?
I think people have to stay inspired and stay really connected to why. They're writing this book and the people they're trying to serve. Because look, if I had a dollar for every time someone said, "I've been thinking of or working on this book for 10 years, I've been putting it on the back burner," I would be retired. But I think that when you're working with a coach or working with someone, or even for someone that's not working with a coach, creating sort of co-writing sessions with friends or colleagues for accountability, because the more we talk about our work and the more we share it in a safe space, the more we're inspired to keep going. It can— writing can be so isolating, and it doesn't have to be. And so like, if anyone needs that permission to say yes to support, whether it's with a coach or with friends, I say do it. Because really, the motivation— and, and so I have clients who will say, I just came off a coaching call with a client, and I'm just reminded so much of why people need this. And so it's like latching on to those moments and giving yourself a writing sprint. So maybe you know you want to do a couple writing sprints after you finish with coaching clients because it's all fresh and you're so connected to the mission. But really, I mean, so many people I work with in the nonfiction space are entrepreneurs and are business owners who are really intent on serving people in a bigger capacity. So I think the more we stayed tied to that mission, the better result we get.
Yeah. And I say a lot of times to entrepreneurs or authors who are afraid to speak about their books, I'm always like, "How dare you?" How dare you not talk about this? Because people need this message. People need to hear it. That's so true. Make sure you get it out there. But you have a very specific roadmap, your book publishing roadmap, which is at your website, Michelle Fredson. I'm sorry, Rochelle. I've known you all these years and I've never called you Michelle. I apologize. Rochelle. RochelleFredson.com. What is this roadmap? I love a good roadmap.
Yeah. I mean, transparency is such a core pillar of my business. And like I said, when we were talking about overwhelm, I think there's so much information out there that people I don't know where to begin. So the roadmap really alleviates those pain points, and it helps people think about what does this book concept need to be to fulfill me and to serve the people in the capacity that I hope. There are some core questions that I want people to answer. There's a discussion about what agents and publishers want to see in your book proposal, and there's even a model for how to get started on your book proposal. So it's really a kickstart guide for people who have been playing with this idea and are ready to take action.
I love it. I mean, that's, that's the thing. We just need the tools. You know, you said in the beginning, overwhelm, it gets people, and it's the thing that's going to stop you. And so here you have a roadmap, which I love. Uh, and you know, media is a factor in this too. So obviously, you know, you're gonna have to start talking about your book even before you have a book. And that's always my best advice to people, is to start before you think you're ready. Don't wait for the book to be out to then start doing publicity. I mean, I was talking about, you know, lists and productivity things when I had like 2 blog, 3 blog posts up. You know, you can use your credibility, what you know, to be able to book yourself and get yourself out there. And that's what publishers want to see too. They want to see, can you book yourself? Can you get out there? Can you sell books, sell yourself, basically?
Yeah, because the truth is the publisher is going to support you about 30% of the way when it comes to in-house PR and marketing, right? They're expecting you to come to the table with 70% of those those plans and intentions and groundwork that we talked about in building the platform. They want that from you. So if you are looking for a traditional deal, doing all of that prep work is so valuable. Um, and there's something I talk about called the social inventory, which is like, as somebody's building their platform, even if you're just beginning and you're starting to teach online a little bit, it's like, just watch what's resonating with people. Like, even just go back and look at those analytics, go back and look at the questions or likes or the hearts. And it's just follow that roadmap, right? And do more of that. We overcomplicate it, and it doesn't need to be complicated. Just start doing it and start teaching and watching what, what people respond to.
And you'll be surprised. I think a lot of times people think, oh, the thing that's going to hit, the thing people are going to love, and it wasn't. It was something that you really weren't even thinking of, that you're like, oh, I thought everyone knew that. Oh, that's weird, you know.
Yep.
Check it out. Use those analytics. They're your friends. Uh, Rachelle, this has been wonderful. Thank you for being here.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, of course. And, uh, so go to Rochelle Fredson.com to check out her roadmap, which I love. And, uh, I also have a freebie gift for you. If you go to PaulaRizzo.com/checklist, you can get my checklist to become a go-to media expert. Because if you are thinking about becoming an author or are an author, media is very important. And media today means any of the above, right? You could be doing your own video show just like your own podcast, whatever it is, or traditional media. So I want you to be prepared. So check that out at paularizzo.com/checklist. Please feel free to leave questions below if you're watching the replay. We will definitely get to those, and I will see you all next time. Thanks for being here.
