Beating Email Overwhelm with Prasanth Nair

Hey there, Paula Rizzo here. I am so thrilled to have you. Welcome to Inside Scoop. This is a show that I've wanted to start for a very, very long time. I'm an Emmy Award-winning television producer, a media trainer, and also the author of two books about productivity, Listful Thinking and Listful Living. And each episode of this show is going to be something that will pique your interest in all areas like Productivity, list-making, efficiency, but also media, video, work from home, and maybe other things like how to become an author, how to continue to write books. You just never know. So I also want to hear from you. So please let me know if there's anything that's of interest to you that you want me to cover or someone you want me to interview. Leave the comments below. And I have a really exciting show for you today. And it's something that I think will help all of you. And I know because it's helped me personally is email, email overwhelm. We are all overwhelmed with email, right? I've seen people's phones with that little number at the bottom that is out of control and it's stressing you out because it stressed me out. But guess what? I have inbox zero today. I do. I know. I want you to be jealous of it because I want you to have it too. And so I have a perfect secret weapon to share with you to be able to get you to inbox zero, hopefully, or close enough. Okay? Close enough. So I'm happy to introduce to you a new friend, Prasanth Nair, who is the CEO of Double Gemini. Welcome. Thank you for being here.

Thank you. Thank you, Paula Rizzo. It's really a pleasure to be on the show.

I'm psyched because you've helped me so much. I don't know if you realize how much. I took a class of yours learning the STACK method, which we're gonna talk about, and we're gonna tell you how to get it for free. And it really has changed the way that I look at email. And I think that's the biggest thing. This is a big mindset switch and it should be for people. So why don't you give me a little bit of a, what you think, why it's such an issue? Why are people having so many issues when it comes to email?

You know, I think there's, so, you know, I've been teaching email for, for email productivity for a number of years. And I've kind of come to two conclusions in terms of like the problem, the field, the field of problems. And those are, they relate to attention and stress. So interestingly enough, a friend of mine at Dropbox just sent me a report that just came out today. And what the report stated is that 28% of a worker's time is lost due to distractions. And I think that's just phenomenal. It's just about 600 hours over the course of a year. So, you know, we live in this attention economy. Everything is vying for our attention. If you look at it, every app that you're using is vying for your attention, Twitter and Facebook and the news, you know, chats and texts and like, you know, everything else, right? And then when you— that's in your life overall, and then you narrow it down to to work, and there's just a few primary culprits, right? And email is definitely up there at the top of that list. And so I'm going to rewind here to this gentleman named Tom DeMarco, who I love quoting. He wrote a book called Peopleware that came out in the '70s. And what he said is so true and even more true today. So what he found was, in a study, is that it takes 15 minutes for somebody to warm up on an activity and 10 minutes of continuous output to make meaningful progress. So, if you're not working—

Ah, so you need a little time to get going, right? To rev up your engine before you can actually get the groove going. I sense that for myself too. I feel like there are times when you're like, "Oh, I'm just going to do a couple little things and get myself going so then I can get to the big things." Yeah. Okay. So continue. So that is— yeah, I know that to be true for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, and like you said, you've experienced it. You're working on a report, you're working on a podcast, on a livestream, even the prep for this. And you've got to, you know, get into the groove and then focus for a little bit before you produce output. So if you're not working 25 minutes straight on any type of like deep work task, you're probably not getting anywhere. And so that's like the first and the biggest problem with email is You start working on something, ping, oh, I'm distracted. Let me go deal with that. And then you ratchet it back and you're warming up again and ping, and then you're warming up again. And then finally, maybe after a few of those, you're able to get into doing work and then ping, you're distracted and you're warming up again. There are people that I've just focused on, on having that bucket their time for managing their email and discrete times. And they've gone from 60-hour weeks to, under 40-hour weeks, just because they're turning off notifications and they're managing their attention. So that's pretty significant. And then the other piece is, you know, what you were talking about earlier is just stress, right? There's like the overwhelm piece of what you were referring to. There's so many stressors that are embedded in email. So first of all, there's that stress that happens with your attention, right? You're stressed out because you're not making progress on the things that you need to actually get done. Then there's the fear of missing out. Then there's the fear of not being responsive, especially today, we're in these remote work situations. And you feel like if you're not responding to your email, your chats, or anything else right away, then are you actually working, right?

Totally. And that mindset right there, right? The idea that you have to get on it immediately And you have to just be there. That for me, that shift to say, you don't actually have to reply right now to every single email, that alone has made such a big impact for me to be able to say, you know what? It's okay if this gets responded to later or tomorrow. It doesn't have to be right now. And I don't know how you feel about scheduling emails, but I'm a big fan of scheduling emails to send. Where I can deal with them now and then have them sent tomorrow or in a week or whatever it is. Because I find that it's— then I'm able to sort of take back my productivity and be able to do it when I feel I need to do it. But, you know, things still get handled. How do you feel about that scheduling piece?

Yeah, I think, I think it's important in two ways. So I think it's important to schedule your time for processing your emails. And I know a lot of people kind of struggle with it. They're like, wait, You want me to block time on my calendar for doing emails? Well, if you get 100 emails a day, you're getting 25,000 emails a year. And so that's a pretty big number. That's— those emails aren't just going to happen magically. You need time to resolve them. So absolutely, you should schedule your time to do email. And then also, like you just mentioned, when you're scheduling your emails on the outbound side, that's very important. Especially for work-life balance. If you are a manager or supervisor or an executive and you're sending emails at 6 o'clock, 7 o'clock at night, on weekends, on Sunday nights, then it makes your team feel like they've got to be on all the time. And so if you want to kind of protect that, give them a little bit of work-life balance, then you should absolutely schedule your emails on the outbound side to go out, you know, at the— you know, it at given times that are a little bit more sane for a work— for a workday.

Let's talk about that for a minute about setting the example, right? A lot of the people who follow me are, you know, high-level C-suite types. And, you know, people get their marching orders from the top down. If they see you replying to emails at 2:00 AM and 3:00 AM, they think they should be doing that too. What do you tell executives, you know, who are, who are used to doing that or who think that's the way that they need to lead their team?

You know, I tell them to think about the productivity of their employees. They, you know, we're— makes me think. So there's a particular author that I'm fascinated with from a workout perspective. His name is Phil Maffetone. And he has this formula that says exercise or training equals work plus rest. And so productivity is equal to work plus rest as well. And if you're not giving your people time to rest and recharge, they're not going to be as productive the next day. So you should definitely set that example. And I even encourage executives to go even further and put in place policies that protect people's time when they're on vacation, when they're in other areas of their lives. Because we just did a survey. And we found with— we did a couple of different surveys, one with a very large pharma which found that people responding to their emails 75% of the time, 75% of the people in this survey, which I went out to hundreds of people, were responding to emails during vacation.

Ah, yeah.

And so how do you have any work-life balance if that's the case? So all of these things, definitely their marching orders come from the top. And by creating a little bit more sanity, you can actually get have a happier workforce, a more engaged workforce, and better quality of life overall.

Definitely, definitely. And Cass McCrory says, I just put it up on the screen, I love this principle of setting the example. And because it is so important for executives, for anybody running their own company, whatever it is, to set that example, to set the precedent for, especially now that everyone's working from home. Now it's like the Wild West. I've been working from home for the past 4 years. So when coronavirus and everybody's working from home and remote and working on camera, I was like, this has been my life for the past 4 years. Not much has changed for me. But for everybody else, I realized there was a big, big shift. You work because you can, because everything's right in front of you. So what about that idea of blocking your time? So as you mentioned, having time specifically set aside to reply to emails. Let's talk about that because that's still something that I'm working on. We're going to talk about the stack method and how you categorize everything. But Tell me, how do you approach creating a time frame to reply back to emails?

So there's, you know, this also even ties into the executive thing, which I'll touch base upon. But what I recommend is that people take an hour block at the beginning of the day, ideally, but if not, at the end of the day, and they Basically work through all of their emails in sequence and they get closure on their emails during that hour block. So let's say that's 9 to 10 in the morning. You, you work out those emails and ideally if you're with a team, you create that block for everyone on your team so that all of you are in sync and you're all working through that same pattern. I've worked with teams that have done this before and it's magical what happens to their productivity because they can knock out all their emails together, and then it opens up all of this room, this brain space for the rest of the day. You know, we were just talking about the anxiety related to email. If you channel that, if you work through your email in that first block, in that hour of the day, you basically can eliminate a lot of that stress and that anxiety, and that gives you creative space to focus for the rest of the day. And then you should definitely answer your email ideally at discrete times during the day. So my general strategy is have a block around noon, have a block at the end of the day, and over the course of the morning— so let's say you 9 to 10, you do this block. Over the course of the morning up until noon or 1 o'clock, yeah, you're going to check your email, but if nothing is on fire, then don't answer it, right? Wait until a block of time where you can process 5, 10, 15, 20 emails at a time, knock them all out, you'll be a lot more efficient and you can focus on the things that you're gonna do at work. You know, the average person checks their email 72 times a day. How are you gonna ever get in the zone if you're doing that, right? And so—

The average, I love that, the average. I think it's probably a lot more for a lot of people. Yeah.

So, you know, that's my general time management strategy is try to do it in punctuated times. Now there are roles where you can't do that. But you still can do the 9 to 10 and front load and gain control of it and then manage it a lot better on the out, you know, on the backend.

Yes. And one of the things that you said too was, this is a culture shift. This is not just, oh, we should all do email at the same time. Everybody should get their email under control. But for companies, like this is like a cultural shift of the workplace that this is how we do it. This is how we're all gonna do it so that everybody knows what everybody's working on at the same time, basically. Right? We're all in on getting this done and out of the way because honestly, who really wants to be doing so many emails? Right? You don't. You don't want to be dealing with email all of the time. So I love that idea of having your entire staff be in on this idea and being able to do it. That's great. But also the point there that I know everybody's going to be like, "Ooh, but it doesn't feel right to not reply right away." It's really about taking that pause. And, you know, I talk about this with list-making and with everything that I do, distractions. You know, you gave some great stats about how distracted we are. Before you get distracted, before you jump into that email, just pause. It's really hard to do. And I don't know if you're into meditation. I'm a new student of meditation for the past, you know, few years, but it's very much similar to that. It's almost like, you know, you're just noticing that there's a new email. That's it. I'm just noticing that it's there. I don't need to deal with it right now, but there it is. It will be there when I get to it. You know, so just like having that kind of thought is really, really helpful so that you get out of that habit of going and going and doing and always having to be on with these emails.

Yeah. You know, we're biologically programmed to value new information just as a species. So every time we get new information, and it doesn't matter if it's useful or not, we are kind of compelled to check it. And, you know, all the, all the software companies understand this, and that's why the notifications are there, the alerts are there, because they want eyeballs. But you have to take back control of your attention from their apps and own it in a, in a way that's, that's meaningful. And so When I tell people that they should do something that a lot of people think is pretty bold, which is turn off notifications. It's not going to turn off any type of notification, the sound, the pop-ups, the little icons, because then you won't be compelled to check your email every 5 minutes. And even at the beginning, when you're doing this, you're going to feel like it. But as long as you have that time slot at noon, the time slot at the end of the day, you'll know that there's an outlet. If you don't block those times on your calendar, you'll feel like you need to be responding all the time because there's no outlet. There's no place or point in time where you've acknowledged that you're going to deal with those things. So I think that's pretty helpful, right?

Definitely. It's like, here, we're going to, we're going to help you out. It's not that you're never going to look at email again, but you're going to look in these blocks of time. So let's talk a little bit about what the Stack Method is, how you developed it, all of that. So first, you know, I just want to let people know that they can get the this method for free at stackmethod.com. And you have chosen to give this for free. You don't have to give your email or anything like that. As someone who has worked in digital email marketing, learned about this as a business owner, the first thing is like, "Get people's email addresses." But you're like, "No, I want to make it free and open to everyone." Why did you decide to make that choice?

I kind of had this feeling a couple years ago that I should really do something to expand the reach because it was having such a large impact on people that were learning the method. Like, people are reporting saving an hour, an hour and a half— or sorry, a month to a month and a half of time over the course of a year, which is— it's hard to get those kind of productivity gains anywhere else. And, you know, there's we were talking about those, the stressors. And when people finally get it and they're in the method, they have this sense of release. It's like a cathartic moment where they— it's almost spiritual in nature. It's nothing that I designed. It just happened to be this, the nature of the domain where they feel this freedom, this like mental headspace open up, this gush of creativity. And so I thought, if I'm just offering it to our corporate clients, that doesn't really create a lot of reach for it. And I figured that if I opened it up to the world, it would really help people because there's so many people that couldn't afford to do this or learn from me in a, you know, in a corporate setting. And then last year with COVID happening, it really felt like the time was now to do it. Because so many people were coming to me and telling me how overwhelmed they were because all these in-person conversations suddenly went digital and the volume went through the roof. And so, you know, I figured that it's a good time to, you know, put it out there and help people. And it's been, uh, it's been pretty interesting to see a lot of people have gravitated to it. The site stats are going, going through the roof without any promotion on my side.

Totally. Email was a problem before, and then COVID happened, and now it's like, forget about it. Right? And a lot of times people don't want to get on video calls now. They're like, I'll just send an email. Right? Like, that's better. I mean, it can be, but not always. And Bonnie is saying, insightful perspective to approach this in a meditative, meditatively, which I think that it is a shift in your thought, in your mindset, in the way that you're looking at this. And it's helpful to do this. So why don't you walk us through what it is exactly, how you do it? Because I'm a believer, I'm doing it and it's working. And so take it away. Tell us how we get to it.

Sure. So, you know, maybe I'll kind of combine it with its origin story because that might be useful. So I started focusing on email in 2004. I was a project manager. I was managing multimillion-dollar programs, large-scale projects for blue-chip companies here in New York City where I'm at. And, you know, I have 100 people on a project team and a lot of email communication coming my way. And I just felt completely disorganized. I felt overwhelmed. And I wasn't in a position where I could afford to have anything slip through the cracks. So I figured there had to be a better way. So I started experimenting. I was looking at organizing things by urgency or by topic or by project. I tried Getting Things Done. I tried a couple other techniques and nothing was really working. So I kind of went to the drawing board and said, okay, let me make a list of all the problems that I've got. Therein is the rub with, you know, you're the master of list-making.

So it all starts with a list. I love it. You buried the lead. Yes.

Yeah. So, and I read your book on it and I think there's, there's so much value in, in, in what you're talking about because it's, it's talking about bringing some of these things to consciousness. And so, so I started working on it and I was struggling with it. And in 2012, I had a breakthrough moment. And this is, this is the breakthrough moment that people experience, or one of the breakthrough moments that people experience when they take the workshop itself. And that is that when you're looking at your inbox, most— what most people see is message, message, message, message, message. But that's not what emails are. They're actions. They're things that you reply to, that you— they're reply, do, delegate, forward, print, file, do, and so on. So they're, they're actions. And so It occurred to me that I needed to organize my email by actions into action folders so that I could batch process my emails by actions. Everybody knows that you don't do your dishes one at a time, right? You don't do your laundry by washing a sock and then washing a shirt and then go and wash a spoon and then go wash a mug. You, you do them in batches because it's, it's a lot more efficient. So Yeah, if you process the same type of action— your replies all at once, your dues all at once, your scheduling's all at once, your forwards all at once, your reviews all at once— if you organize them in batches and process them that way, you're going to be far more efficient. And so that's the kind of core of the methodology itself. But of course, there's, there's a lot more to it that you need to put in practice for it to be a, uh, a comprehensive productivity system that that really solves all email problems.

Yeah. And I love the batching idea because, you know, I often tell people the same thing. You know, you're not gonna wash one sock at a time. You're not gonna, you know, so do all of these similar tasks, you know, doing your bills or whatever it is, do it one day out of the month instead of, or whatever, you know, instead of like a hodgepodge whenever you feel like it. Same thing with email. When you start to think that way, like, oh, I'm not gonna deal with that till later. It's much easier to be able to really process those emails and look at them as actions because that's exactly what it is. So for me, now that I have this system set up, because it does take a little bit of work to kind of get your inbox ready. So you do have to, you know, invest some time into actually doing this. You have these folders where then you're going to just look at that email and know in an instant, oh, this is something I forward to somebody else to deal with, or I'm going to reply to, or I have to do something or whatever it is, you put it into those categories. And I also find this is with many things, but especially with email, we think it's going to take a lot longer to reply to things than it actually does. And when you, when you do this batching method where you're replying to a bunch of emails at once, I tell everybody for multiple things to time yourself. So my background is as a TV producer. So I am very keenly aware of like how long 30 seconds is, how long a minute is, Most people don't think in seconds, but I want people to because then it really puts into perspective, you know, I've been procrastinating writing back to that email for a week and it literally took me 45 seconds to reply to. What was I doing? You know? So it really helps you to kind of put into perspective the weight of what you think it's going to be or how long it's going to take or, you know, versus what it actually is.

Yeah, you know, I love that, especially thinking in terms of seconds. When you take every email and it's just sitting in your inbox, and I've seen people with 150,000 emails in their inbox. So if you're listening to this show right now, don't feel bad if you've got 10, 20, 30, 40,000. And you break it down into— you're basically looking at all these thousands of emails. It's a big problem. When you break it down into smaller problems, just a handful of actions, you're immediately chunking the problems. You'll have 20 replies, 10 reviews, 3 meets, 2 schedules, and so on. That's already giving you a mental advantage. And then, like you said, with the timing thing, we've timed people. We actually time people in our habit-building sessions. So when we don't— we don't just teach the class, we teach the class. Then we help them get their inbox to zero and their folders organized. Like you said, it takes a, takes a minute to get organized.

Yes.

And then we do habit building sessions. In the habit building sessions, we time people and people are shocked. They think, okay, this is going to be an hour. And they might start out with 45 minutes on the first habit building session just because it's— they're dealing with the brunt of it. But by the second or third one, they're processing their email in 20 minutes, 25 minutes, and they're walking out feeling completely relieved and with with all this clarity. And, you know, every single email, it takes a— if you think about it and organize it in the right way, takes a lot less time than you think. Now, there are specific types of emails called effort emails where you need to schedule time on your calendar to get them done. But even in that 20 or 25-minute block, you can schedule those. But the majority of emails, like you said, just take a few seconds to read, respond, and deal with. And putting them in those action folders primes your brain to so that when you get to the action folder, you already know what to do. You're not thinking about what to do. If you don't put them in the action folders and they're all in one big list, you're constantly switching context, which wastes seconds, and those seconds add up to days and weeks, especially when you're talking about the tens of thousands of emails over the course of the year.

Oh, exactly. It adds up. It adds up for sure. And if you're watching right now and you have a question, just stick it in the chat box. We'll be happy to look at them. Sandy has said part of the overwhelming nature is what we can check on our laptops and our phone, so this is a discipline that we have to practice. Great info. And it's true, that's something that I wanted to get into as well, because it's not just now email anymore. Now people are Facebook messaging, they're LinkedIn message, they're on, you know, Instagram. So you are getting an influx of a lot of information from a lot of different places. How do you tell people to deal with all of those external internal messages because you can't stick that into one of these folders that we've now created for email.

Yeah. You know, the, the first thing I tell people is just in general in life, turn off notifications except for the most pressing ones, emergency notifications that you might need, very specific people from your family that you might, might need to get notifications from because those are really distracting. Then the second thing is you want to compartmentalize these, your time slots when you're dealing with these things. You know, if your notifications are always on, you're basically never going to have a minute of focused attention to get anything done. So, you know, turning off the notification on your phone, turning off the notifications of your desktop, putting yourself back in control will really help, you know, drive a behavioral change along these things. And then the other part is that you have to have a process in every domain for dealing with those types of messages. Whether you're chatting, whether you're dealing with Facebook or Twitter, you have to think about how you're going to approach, you know, the specific content in that domain and how you're going to deal with it. Maybe Twitter and Facebook needs to be at 5 o'clock when you're just checking out or first thing in the morning when you just want to know, you know, a glance, you know, what's happening, and then they've got to be off for the rest of the day.

Right. Yeah. No, that's a good way to look at it. And, you know, I— I get a lot of messages from all different places. I try to push it to email as much as possible. So if someone sends me something, a request, or, "Hey, could you be on my podcast? Hey, could you do this speaking thing? Could you do this whatever?" It's like, "Great. I'm really excited. I would love to do it, but could you shoot me an email on this or give me your email address and I'll write you an email and then that way we can start the dialogue there." Because the other piece of it too is I have an assistant who helps me to deal with some of the overwhelm of my whole, you know, my whole business, everything that's going on. If she's not looped into something that I got through LinkedIn, she doesn't know what's happening. And I'm like, yeah, I've agreed to go do this thing. And she's like, but you're already doing this other thing, so we can't have you be doing— you know, it all needs to sort of come to one central place. So having that in mind of how can you kind of, you know, have everything corralled in a way, uh, is helpful. But I have also started to do just what you've said, to have Specific times that I'm like, OK, this is when I'm checking LinkedIn. This is when I'm going to go on Twitter. This is when I'm going to— so then that way I can, can see, is anything new coming in? Is there something that I need to be dealing with here versus all day looking at it and going on and being like, oh, this is cool and getting to— I mean, not to say that I still don't do that because I still do do that. But I'm trying my hardest not to because I know it doesn't work. It's so difficult to be able to, you know, stretch your attention in that way. But one of the other things I want to say too about the Stack Method, and obviously I'm a big fan. I think everybody should check it out at stackmethod.com, is that, you know, you give the, what I call the rules of how to set everything up. But the important part here too is that you have to do what works for you. In my book Listful Living, I talk a lot about productivity style and knowing yourself best and knowing how you can actually get things done. This can be molded for that too, you know, to be able to say, hey, well, I know that I'm not necessarily going to need all of these folders. It's okay. You have fewer folders. I don't have as many folders as you. I think you say to have 7 folders, is it?

7 pockets? Yeah, 5 to 7.

5 to 7. Yeah. I think I have 3. I tried it with the 5. I tried it with all of them and just, I didn't need them. I've pared it down and that's okay. It's working amazingly great for me. Do what has to be done to make it work for you in all aspects of this. The other thing I wanted to ask you about it too is that You say to stack everything, so put everything into the folders in the morning, right? You set aside a little block of time to do that. I actually like to do it at night. I like to look and see what's in here. Oh, I don't have to deal with this till tomorrow. And I put it in there and then the next day I kind of start and do the rest of them. Is it counterproductive to do it twice?

No, no, it's definitely not counterproductive. And, you know, so, um, When I started teaching the techniques in 2012, I found that things weren't sticking. And the reason why is because the methodology at that time was just a little too rigid because it was just focused on me. And there's a lot of people with different workflows and processes that they engage in just because of the nature of their particular work. The things that you do, Paula Rizzo, are different than things that I do, than my friend George, and so on, right? So there's really no silver bullet. So You need to understand the philosophies and the concepts and then know— need to know how to customize them for your particular domain. And that includes that time management strategy of— for some people, it's— they like to stack, move into the action folders and work through those action folders in the morning. For some people, they like to do it in the evening. For me, I actually toggle between the two depending on the nature of the work. That I'm doing at a given point in time. So, you know, I think that's, that's pretty interesting. You know, if it's, if it's okay, I want to bring up a thing that you mentioned earlier, which is culture, company culture. Yeah. So, you know, when a lot of companies don't culturally focus on making Solving email is a priority. And they don't even see its importance. They just say it is something that somebody does. And I think that's something pretty interesting. It's something I've thought about a lot. So when most companies, they hire people, they see somebody as like IT manager or media specialist or associate or lawyer or HR person or whatever, right? And what they don't do is they don't look at people and say, 28% of this person is email, 22% is meetings, 15% is chat, another 20% is distractions, and only 10% is that specialist for their particular domain. Right. And so I think it's really important to have that kind of perspective. And then tackle the problem from a corporate cultural perspective because everybody has these problems. They have problems with emails. They have problems with meetings. They have problems with time management. And these actually constitute the majority of what people struggle with. If you want to take that 10% HR person or IT specialist and expand it, you need to solve the other 80% that falls underneath it. And email is a huge portion of that particular piece.

That's such a good point because it's like, we're not just, just the one piece of the, you know, what the expertise is. Look at all of this stuff that we have to do to be able to do our job well. And email is such a huge part. Well, you know, this has been so fun to be able to chat with you about this and to dig in a little bit. And if people go to stackmethod.com, they can check out the method. Take— you have a bunch of videos there. They can take the class with you and try it. And I, I encourage you all to do it, to actually set aside the time to set it up the right way and to try it and to mold it and to make it work for you because it will work. I've been doing it since I took that class with you, which I think was like 2 months ago, and it's really been helpful. I was, you know, off for an extended period of time. I came back, it was no big deal. The emails were not overflowing. I didn't spend 3 hours going through my emails before I could start, you know, like working. That didn't happen. So it is possible. There is a better way with email. And I really think that it's, it's a, it's a really great method. And I'm glad that you could share it with us. And thank you for being here. And, you know, the other part too is that you do corporate trainings, right, for, for groups, also individuals, not only with email, but all sorts of productivity systems and tasks and things like that, right?

Yeah. With meetings, with email etiquette, with time and task management, with organizing files, which are a mess in most teams and organizations that we work with. So with strategic planning, you know, a lot of different things. And so thank you so much, Paula Rizzo, for having me on the inaugural episode of your show. Best of luck with it. This format is fantastic. You have such an effervescent personality, and it's just— it's been really a pleasure to be here. Thank you.

Thank you. Well, I appreciate it. I know everybody, you know, watching has been really excited. I've seen the comments coming in. And if you're watching the replay, please feel free free to leave comments or questions. We'll be checking this. So this is, this is something that will live on and on for a very, very long time. We'll continue the conversation. And so stackmethod.com is where you can find all that info. And also if you go to paularizzo.com/list, you can get a freebie from me, which is my list-making starter kit and information about how to be more productive and make better lists. And until next time, I very much enjoyed hanging out with you and I can't wait to see you all