Checklist for Building an Online Following

Hello.

Welcome to Inside Scoop. I'm Paula Rizzo. So I know you put a lot of effort into your side hustles, into your books, into your business, into creation. And that's really smart, really important. But what good is it if no one knows about it? You have to tell people. And I get that sometimes it's not so easy to toot your own horn and talk about what you do and all of those things, but it is essential. Because there's no point in doing all those wonderful things if nobody knows that it's there for them to enjoy and learn from and grow. So today we're going to dive into that. I have an amazing guest who I'm going to introduce in just a moment so we can talk all about how to build your online following through social media and podcasts, video shows like this and all of that. And of course, we'll put it in checklist form because you know me, I just love a good checklist. So we'll dive in in just a second, but before that, I want to give a little freebie that I know will be helpful for you. If you go to check out my list-making starter kit, it's going to help you to be less stressed and more productive. And you can go ahead and grab that over at paularizzo.com/list. And I'll give you all kinds of tips and tricks there. Because a lot of times people do ask me too, how did you leave your full-time job and start your own business? You know what?

List making.

List making was what did it for me. So that's a way to make sure that you consistently create something that is worth talking about. I'm also a LinkedIn Learning instructor and I do have, you know, quite a few courses about lists and list making and productivity. So you can check those out and also some about how to set boundaries and protect your time. OK, so we're going to be talking a lot about how to build your online following. You're going to have to protect your time to be able to do that. You need to set aside time to do this. It just doesn't magically happen. So if you check out my course there, I will tell you all about how to do that. You can go to LinkedIn Learning, of course, check that out. Or if you go to paularizzo.com/linkedin, you can also see all of those things there. I have things on hybrid work, all those kinds of wonderful things. And also, you know, throughout the broadcast today, whether you're watching live or if you're watching on the replay, I would love to hear from you. So please leave us your questions below. And you know what? Actually tag somebody, tag a friend, Tag someone who you're like, "Hey, they need to hear this conversation or they need to be in on this conversation now." So please tag them below. Share this with whoever you think might benefit and ask questions. Just leave them there for us, whether it's live or on the replay, we'll get to them live at the end. And if it's on the replay, we will check them out throughout the rest of the day and who knows when. So without further ado, I would love to bring on a friend of mine who is an author. She's a book publicist and she's the president and co-founder of the Brooklyn-based publicity and digital marketing firm, the St. Vincent Court. Courtney Jason is here today to chat a little bit online. Hey Courtney.

Hi Paula, thanks so much for having me. It's so good to see you again.

It's so good to see you too. You know, we, we have known each other in many, many iterations, uh, through the years. We were just chatting before. We, we met probably back in 2014 at the now defunct Book Expo America in New York City, and you were working for a company, a publisher then. And I was actually really excited because my first book, Listful Thinking, was about to be published. And we just started chit-chatting, and I was like, hey, I'm a TV producer. And you're like, hey, I have authors, let's talk.

Yes, you were, you were signing copies. I still have it on my bookshelf now and still reference it.

I love it, I love it. Well, you know all about how to get authors out into the world, and I know this firsthand because I was, you know, the recipient of many a pitch from Courtney for We did a lot of segments together and, you know, now we do work together, uh, as well with different clients on media training. You know, you'll send me someone to help them, uh, be really great and ready for all the wonderful opportunities that you find for them, uh, in the media. So I appreciate that. I'm glad we can still work together. Uh, but I want to talk about misconceptions because I think a lot of times, like I said in the beginning, people think, oh, people, you know, uh, I'll do this great thing and that'll be enough. But that's not really enough when it comes to putting your information out in the world. So what are some of those misconceptions?

It's true. You really have to be your own amplifier. You have to be your own microphone and share things everywhere that you are, where you're out there across all of your social media platforms. Like if you have a great press hit, if you have, you know, a great new bylined article, you have to be the microphone to amplify that out for people to find it. They, like we were talking earlier, like people, you have to be the voice to get it out there because otherwise, how else are people going to find it? I mean, there's so much new content coming out online every day that it's so easy for things to be overlooked.

Yeah. I also think, I also think too, people get a little afraid, you know, creators are afraid to overshare. They're like, oh, I already shared that. I already told people that. It's like, no one saw it. You know, on Twitter, if they didn't see it at that moment, at that time, it is gone and they're never going to see it again. So what about—

Exactly. I'm constantly opening my social media apps and, oh, where did that go? Oh, I should have saved that. Or it's just every time you refresh, it just gets buried. So it's just so important to, to have multiple places where people can find you. So being present on social media, but also beyond that, have your own email list, have your own website where people can really engage with you. Like if they're following you, they're going to follow you in multiple places. So you need to have those, those pinpoints of where they, where they can go. And as we saw just a couple of weeks ago with Facebook and Instagram going down, like if you, you probably lost communication, you lost communication with your followers. So unless, you know, you have, that's the importance of like having an email list or being able to connect with them in, in many different places.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and you know, we're going to talk about authors specifically in a minute, but It's important that even before you're an author, even if you have no interest in being an author, even if you're a blogger or a podcaster or you have a livestream show like this, that you're consistently putting information out there for people to find you. I mean, for me as a journalist, it's always been sort of second nature to just produce stuff, but it doesn't come naturally to everyone. So what do you tell people to sort of do beforehand? Right? Like even if you're thinking of maybe being an author at some point or thinking about maybe that you might have something to promote, So beforehand, I mean, you need to know where you want to engage with people.

So if you're going to Instagram, like know the differences between the, between social media platforms and what you want to post on each one. So like Instagram is really great for photos. Also, it's so important, like the Instagram algorithm recognizes faces. So if you're posting a picture of yourself, you're going to get more likes. It's going to be more visible. Instagram is great for like behind the scenes, a day in the life, you know, use, use the features that are, are special to that. Go use IG Live to have conversations with other thought leaders, other influencers, people that can also help you reach new people that you wouldn't be in front of otherwise. Twitter is great for sharing an article, a press hit. Twitter is great for something that has a link to take you somewhere else. Same with Facebook. And then Facebook is great with having calendars. So say you have a talking, a speaking engagement or you know, once you do have a book, like a book signing, but anything that like people can attend, right? They can add it to their calendar. So there's, there's so many different services on those platforms that you need to be using them. And of course hashtags work on pretty much everything. So really know what the popular and engaging hashtags are like within your community. So like on our company one, we're really using like #writingcommunity and #writerslift, and that's helping us connect with writers, authors, book reviewers, et cetera.

Mm-hmm. It's such a good point that not all the content has to be exactly the same on all the platforms. And I think that is a big misconception for a lot of people because they think, okay, I'm going to do this one thing. I'm just going to blast it everywhere in the exact same form, in the exact same way. And that's actually not great, to your point. And also it really, in my mind, solidifies the fact that you don't have to be everywhere if you don't want to be. If you enjoy Instagram only, just do that. If you really like Twitter, I mean, as a journalist, Twitter is really the place where I think journalists go a lot more than anybody else. So that's good to know too, if you want to catch the attention of media, that journalists are probably using Twitter more than they are using some of the— maybe Instagram is pretty hot too, but I think that's really the place that they're going. So where's the audience that you're looking to reach?

Where are they?

Then you hang out in that social media, place. What about consistency? Like how much time, how many, how many things should you post? How much is too much? How much is too little?

Look at your analytics. Like when is your audience online? Like these platforms have those services to see, you know, how many posts you're getting, how many likes you're getting, the comments, and do your own social media audit. So like look at when people are online that are engaging with you, like figure out the best time that you should be posting. I mean, one of the funny things for my company is it's popular for, it's a good time for us to post on the weekends. And like, you wouldn't always think that for a company, but that is when, you know, people might be more online and that's when we are getting good engagement with our posts. And you also, I just lost my track of thought. That's alright.

You'll get it back.

Yeah.

But see, this is, this is the point. It's like, you know, you do need to make sure that you have a lot of things going at the same time because people do lose their train of thought. They might not see it the first time. They may not. If you put it in your newsletter, they might not have read it. So it's okay if you put it on Twitter. It's okay if you put it on Instagram. Like, you know, spread, spread the love everywhere. Let's talk about email strategy a little bit. I mean, I know we're talking about social media specifically, but, you know, you do mention that people should, should have a newsletter, should have a way to connect with people, with their followers, because, you know, what if Facebook goes down? What if Twitter goes down? I mean, it happens. Yeah.

And that's, that's your email list will be your own. Like no one else will ever own that. That is what you own. Um, and talking about like journalists, I subscribe to many newsletters from journalists that I work with because they're often, they're now creating newsletters to say, these are the articles that I'm working on. These are the opportunities I have. And that helps control, you know, the number of pitches that they get and like helps them control their inbox. So that's been a really great service. Like Lindsay Tiger is doing that really well. Kelsey Ogletree. It's fantastic to be able to like see exactly what they're working on and then, okay, it's a fit or it's not a fit for the clients that I have. And I follow like Elizabeth Holmes's newsletter. She does so many thoughts on royal style on Instagram. And then E. Jean Carroll and Etusa Rubinstein from former Seventeen magazine editor-in-chief. So So many people have newsletters and it's so great to just get their writing or see what they're talking about that is longer, long form, more in depth than what they're doing on social media. It's another great way to just stay in touch and I like what they're doing, so I want more of it.

Yeah. Well, and they're all journalists, right? Everyone you mentioned? Yeah. See, this is an interesting thing because I've now owned my own company, been out of the journalism game per se for a big company for the past 4 years. It's been 4 years. Can you believe that? Isn't that crazy? Uh, and, uh, but you know, when I, when I was a journalist, uh, you know, every day looking for stories and, and all of that, you know, there's a lot of pitches that come through the door. That's just the way that it works, right? Like, you know, publicists are pitching you and, and it's, it's a, it's a blind pitch a lot of times because you don't know if we've already done something like that or it's already in the works or, you know, what's going on behind the scenes. But the idea that the journalists are now doing these newsletters and fishing in a way, you know, saying like, hey, it's their own personal, like almost like, uh, HARO, like help a reporter out for themselves.

Exactly.

Uh, If you guys haven't ever used HARO, HARO, however you say it, it's helpareporter.com. I always thought it was really useful as a journalist because you would put out a query and say, hey, I need an expert who can talk about whatever thing, and then publicists would see it or authors would see it or whoever and say, hey, I can talk about that thing. I've also used it for myself as an expert and I've gotten some media hits that way too. But how interesting to actually say to all of these publicists, hey, listen, this is what we're actually looking for. For people who are looking to be in the media too, it might behoove you to make friends with some of these journalists and be like, "Hey, I want to be on your newsletter and hear what they're talking about." That's actually very, very cool. I like that. Yeah.

Yeah. It's been great to see.

Yeah. It's very different. There was only one person I knew who had done that. He was a doctor, a sleep doctor years ago. And he used to do that. And I always thought it was very, very smart, but the only person I had ever heard doing it, but now everybody has caught on. But what about— podcasts, livestream shows, things like this that keep you connected in a different way than we're just talking about written text.

Yeah. And it's all very new. I mean, podcasts, they've been around for a couple years, but in 2020, almost a million new podcasts launched. That's just so massive to think. And there's really a podcast for everything. It can be general, but it can also be so very niche and specific that there really is a podcast for everything, I think. Um, and when I'm working directly with authors, I like to start with podcasts. Like if they're not, you know, if they're not media trained, if I haven't connected them to work with Paula Rizzo, podcasts are a great place to start because one, you have the editing capabilities. Um, so if you know someone's nervous or they're not really sure what they're saying yet, like, you know, there's, there's more ability to edit on the backend. Um, they're long form, so there's, you know, a great chance to go like even deeper into your messaging. But also figure out what is the big story while also narrowing in on like, okay, now say you have to do a 5-minute interview. Okay. What were the key points from that interview that you can summarize now? Like, and really, really narrow in on what those key messages are that you're trying to deliver. Um, and again, like there's just so many, you know, there's so many podcasts. I think it's important just to recognize there are so many podcasts. So you need to do your research of what, what podcast is worthwhile. So whether that's looking at like the number of reviews and ratings that they have, you know, in Spotify or on Apple Podcasts. Don't hesitate to ask, you know, what are their total downloads? Like podcasters should feel comfortable to share that info, at least with guests. You know, it doesn't have to be shared, you know, publicly, but, but to, to a guest, a guest should have the right to know that. And then checking out the consistency. So is this podcast, do they have multiple seasons? Okay. If it's not, If it's the first season, like, are they posting on a regular basis? Like, do they have an episode every week or every month? Like, there does have to be consistency because podcasts are a lot of work also. Um, and with those million podcasts, like, how many are still going in 2021?

I think it's just like, people think it's a cool project. Like, oh, I'll start a podcast.

Why not?

Everybody's doing that. And then they do it and then it goes away, you know?

So like, okay, that was too much work. Now I quit.

Yeah. And it is, right? Uh, but you know, as both the creator who's— or, you know, the expert, the author, whoever you are— to be able to pitch yourself or say like, hey, I want to be on these podcasts so I can, you know, teach myself basically. Because it is long form, you do get— you, you do get more time to answer questions, and it is really great practice. Because then when you do get to TV or an online platform, I mean, you have, you know, 15 seconds to say what you need to say sometimes. So it's important to kind of work that out ahead of time. But also the importance, I think, also of, of creating your own content, like If you wanted to create your own podcast, it's doable. You can do it. If you want to create your own live stream course like that, or whatever this is, a show like this, it's important because it does keep you consistently talking about the thing that you know. And even if you are bringing on other guests or you're bringing in other people who are also experts, that's fine too, because you're just highlighting what you know and opening it up to their community as well. So it's pretty important. And I want to take a question that Karina sent us actually on LinkedIn. Now, this is a LinkedIn-specific question. So if you don't know specific specifics about LinkedIn, let me just walk you through this one. It says, how do you get people engaged when you don't have all of the added perks of an influencer account? That's on LinkedIn. That's on sometimes Instagram where they give you special features, they give you special things if you, I don't know, have X amount of followers and then they give you extra, you know, features and things like that. What do you, what do you think of that? Do you need all the bells and whistles to be able to be engaging?

No, of course not. But know that, you know, every little thing that you do, it takes time to get that growth. It takes, it does take strategy. You have to have a strategy. I mean, there's a reason why companies have full-time social media managers because it is a full-time job and yeah, you know, you have to recognize how much time you can devote to doing these, these, you know, strategies of communication. So how to get people engaged? Like, know what you're sharing. Like, know what kind of content works for your audience. Like, what is your brand voice? You have to know those things to know, you know, that there is an audience there for it. Follow similar accounts. Like, definitely do your social media audit and analyze your competitors. What are they doing that's working well? Maybe they are a bigger account that has those bells and whistles, but what are they doing without that? So there are, look at what people are doing and look at what's working and then apply that to your own account. Mm-hmm. Great.

Well, Karina, thank you for your question. And if anyone else has questions, leave them for us there. We will be sure to get those in here. So please ask those questions. Well, this thing that she brought up brings me to my next point sort of about, You know, when do you know that it's time that you shouldn't be doing it yourself? Because it's nice, it's nice to kind of tinker with all the different social media platforms and try it out. And then at some point you're like, okay, I need to not do this myself. So when do, when do people get to that point and what are the things that they can do?

That's a great question. And I think it's, you know, if you're seeing that you're getting, you know, business from these, if, if you're growing your, your business and it's just something that you don't have time for, then hire an expert. Um, I mean, there's so many companies out there, ours included, that offer these services. You know, we'll, we'll do short-term campaigns where, you know, it might be focused on a book launch and we have a specific timeline that we like incorporate into the strategy. But there's people that you can hire. You can hire a part-time assistant. I mean, college students are, are, they've grown up as like experts in social media. So like it could even be like someone's part-time job in college. Like there's so many people that you can find, you know, starting out that, that would be more than willing to, you know, provide their expertise to help you out. So I think if you're looking to take your business to that next level and like really use it as growing your own personal expertise, sharing your work, sharing who you are as a creator, you know, definitely hire an assistant. I mean, there's also platforms like Canva, you know, that can really help you with content creation and you can create templates and sort of learn how to batch tasks that will save things. On your time. But I mean, especially with commenting and responding to people that are commenting on your posts or just commenting on other people's posts, it takes a lot of time. So it is always something to consider. As soon as you might have the budget for it, look into it.

Yeah, for sure. I agree completely. And it's something that I started my blog 10 years ago and I knew, because I was working full-time, I knew there was no way I'm going to sustain continuing this blog or doing social media or telling anybody that this exists. This if I don't have help. And so very early on I had, you know, I hired interns and then I hired assistants and then I hired, you know, now a social media person who's helping with all my digital content. Allie, who's behind the scenes that no one can see, who's pushing all the buttons for this, for this.

And that's for any influencer that you're following. Anyone with like a substantial account, substantial following, they have help. You just don't see them.

Totally.

I mean, it's not ever one person running it by themselves.

It's like a ghostwriter, right? It's like, you know, the right— it's behind the scenes. It's the TV producer behind the scenes who no one knew that who we were because we were doing all the work and the anchors and the reporters were getting all the glory, right? Because they were the ones out, out in front. That's just the way it works. Uh, what about authors specifically? Let's talk a little bit about authors because you do work with authors, uh, to help them get their books out into the world. And social media has changed a lot, I think, as far as books and authors, especially during the pandemic, everything was now virtual. Everyone had to sort of engage doing lives and showing their books and not being in person and not doing those signings like we used to do. So what are some of the newer platforms? I know TikTok is really big now for authors. So have you dove in on that?

Yes, BookTok. BookTok and AuthorTok. I mean, it's insane just to see what's happening there. I finally did get my own TikTok account. I mean, I have not posted yet. I don't know if I will ever post. Post. But you know, I need to see what is happening. I've had 2 clients' books, you know, have, have go viral. I mean, one person, it was a book on how to draw, like illustrating. And just one person, I believe they were even in Germany, just this young woman gave a review of this book and then that company sold, you know, like 5,000 copies in a week. It was just totally insane. So you just, the hard part, there's no equation or specific path for how to go viral on TikTok. You just never know what's going to hit, but still try because you never know.

Yeah, for sure. Well, it's also like this brings up the micro influencer, the idea of the micro influencer, right? So it used to be the influencer, the Kim Kardashian, the JLo, those are the huge stars that you're like, if they would just If they would just hold my book, if they would just have my product, then I'll sell a zillion copies, which may or may not happen. But now that doesn't have to be somebody who has, you know, 50 million people following them. It could be, you know, much fewer. So talk, talk a little bit about micro-influencers and how they're— Yeah.

So micro-influencers are technically anyone between 1,000 and up to 1 million followers, which I mean, 1 million followers is still going to be like an influencer. But we often work with, with book reviewers or bookstagrammers that are in that 1,000 to 2,000 range. Because yeah, they might not have a massive following, but they're also at that level where like, you know, if we don't have a budget to pay for the review, we can coordinate, you know, just giving them a review copy as a courtesy and they review it, you know, in their own time. If they like it, you know, of course we work with all those parameters. But there's, yeah, they're at that beginning level where there's more ability to like negotiate how to work together., but they still have that following that is interested in what they're doing, that it is very targeted. And, you know, out of a million people, how many might actually buy the book? But if it's 1,000 and they're all very specific in this one topic, then you'll get a better percentage of, of who, of, of targeting them and getting, getting the response that you want.

They're much more engaged. You know, even that smaller group, they're just, they're locked in. They, they're really interested in what that person has to say, what they do. Warren has a question over on LinkedIn. Um, so I wanna pull him in, but he's asking about automation tools for social media. How long before you invest in tools like Hootsuite and other automation tools? This is awesome, by the way. Well, thank you, Warren.

Thank you for watching. Thank you, Warren. Yeah.

So what do you think of automation?

Invest in Hootsuite immediately. Like, there's a free— even just start with the free package. You know, there's all of— they offer, you know, the free package to see if it works out.

Test it.

Do the 1-month trial period, whatever, you know, the specific package is. But we We started with the 1-month trial with Hootsuite and, you know, now we use it with our clients too. So it helps you. There's, you know, analytics from Hootsuite as well. So you do see when your audience is online and when they're engaging. So that also helps you pinpoint, okay, this is the time that I should be posting on this and this is the time that I should post on Facebook and this is when my Instagram following is active and all of that is just so useful to see.

Yeah, it's true. You, because you have to know, I mean, these are analytics that you wouldn't, how the heck would you even know? You know, you, you would not. There are algorithms for all of these things. Dr. Mandela on LinkedIn also agrees with us about podcasts, saying podcast is so good if you're camera shy. That is true. Although a lot of the podcasts now are also on camera, I have to say.

They are on camera. And so I do always check with the host too, to tell my clients like, okay, there is video recording also, but it really, that's just to help with like normal cues of normal social communication cues.

Yes, true. It's true. But, and he also says helps you to present without worrying about how you would look on camera. Also anecdotally, I feel podcasts are underutilized by small and medium-sized businesses. I agree with you. I mean, I think everybody should have a podcast or a livestream show like this so that they're talking to their customers, potential customers all the time and telling them about what they do. You know, I, I, it is a lot of work though. That's the thing.

It is a lot of work, but how important is it to have that face-to-face communication and get to know people? Like it's so important to put a face with a company. I mean, you want to know who these people, people are. Yeah.

What about, uh, digital advertising? Um, you know, Facebook ads, LinkedIn ads, that kind of stuff. What do you think? I mean, when Facebook went down, when Instagram went down, nobody was getting anybody coming in the door.

It's with Facebook, you know, these, these social media platforms know who we are. They know our interests. They know what we're liking and not liking and, you know, what we quickly scroll past and what we click on. So with that data, you can so specifically target, you know, who your audience is, whether it's just boosting a post or boosting your page or doing a, you know, very strategic campaign for, you know, a new product, for a book, anything. You can be really specific and get in front of people that would not have found you otherwise. And it's all just based on very specific keywords. It's truly incredible how specific you can get.

It's true. It's true. And it's something you can dabble in once you start to kind of get your footing, get yourself out there. It might not be the first strategy you use, but it should be one in your toolbox for sure.

Yeah. And you can ebb and flow with budget. You can set your daily rates, daily clicks, all of that. It's very, you know, you can tailor it to your budget and your needs.

Yeah, for sure. Well, you do work with authors, so I do want to talk a little bit about hiring a publicist if you're an author. I think a lot A lot of times authors, um, you know, books take forever to come out. Uh, as someone who worked in TV news for a long time and then, and then published two books, I was like, wow, this takes forever. Um, but it's one of those things where it is sort of a long, slow burn, right? You're talking about this for a very long time, then the book comes out, then you're still talking about it, then you're still talking, you know. Uh, so what is— what are the things that people should be thinking about? Like, when should they hire a publicist? When, you know, when is a good time, when is not a good time?

Yeah, so I think first, if you're publishing traditionally, if you have a publisher, you do need to talk to them and discuss it really as soon as you sign that contract or if it's part of the contract. What are they going to do internally for PR? Because not every book is equal, unfortunately. Not every author, not every title is, you know, quote unquote an A-list title for that publisher.

And you know, you've worked in-house at a publisher, you know, for years.

I've worked in-house and agency throughout my 10 years. So it's, you know, I don't want to bruise any author's ego ever, but you do need to know upfront what your publisher will be doing to support the book. Because if you know, okay, they don't, you know, this is not going to be a title that they're focusing on, then you can go and hire someone yourself. You know, I do believe every book is important and every, you know, You shouldn't be writing an author unless— writing a book unless you have something to say, right? And so that means every book has a purpose and there's a place for it. So then, you know, you'll want to hire a freelance publicist and it's kind of like dating. You got to interview them. You got to like see who you mesh with, you know, see who, you know, see who you have that rapport with and someone that believes in you and is really going to like work to put your name and like get you out there. So take as many calls, like take as many calls as you can. You know, we offer complimentary introductory calls to, you know, see if this is the right working relationship. And, you know, you'll talk about your goals and the publicist will, you know, share what they do. And then, you know, often we'll put together a proposal for clients and go from there.

Yeah, and it's important to start the process, you know, well before the book is going to come out, right? This is not something like, oh, the book is coming out in December, so you're starting this search in November. No, this stuff needs to happen from before. There's a lot of stuff that has to happen, uh, well before the book comes out. And, you know, in the journalist world, uh, a book is new for like 6 months or less, then it is an old book. And we don't— it's not that we don't care about it. I mean, I still get media for my book that came out, you know, 7 years ago, whatever it was, which is great. Um, but in terms of like if it's going to be reviewed by a certain thing, like they don't review books after they're X amount, you know, you would know exactly, but I mean, isn't that the case? It's just sort of like, hey, you gotta jump on it when it's new.

If you want like specific, like true book reviews, you gotta work 6 months in advance. Like that is the lead time for, for print publications, newspapers and magazines. Like you have to have a digital review copy like that far in advance before your book comes out. I mean, currently I'm talking to authors that have books coming out next, next August, August 22nd. So that's really how far we're strategizing ahead. I mean, that's not to— I'm also working, you know, I'm starting next week with a client whose book has, did come out over the summer, but it was, you know, a miscommunication of his publisher not doing what he thought they were going to do. But I'm like, okay, well, now we can focus on holiday gift guides. Like, here's the strategy that works.

There's more, there's more you can do. And that's the thing too. It's like, you know, if I— that's why I love working with first-time authors., you know, on media training, because I get to give them a little window as an author myself into the world of what, what happens. You know, it's like, hey, your publisher is going to be really excited about you. Until then, they're not, and they move on to the next one. And it's nothing against you, and it's nothing against your book. It's just that there's a lot of stuff happening with that publishing company, and they're gonna love you for a little bit, and then it's off, off you go.

And you have your—

yeah, and then you're off on your own, and that's it. And so what will you do to continue to get the book out there and continue talking about it 6, 7 years after the book comes it's up to you, right? You have to be doing that. Yeah. I want to pull a question here from Jack who is asking about automation. So because we did talk about automation tools, so many authors are thinking about automated promotional tools. Can you speak about the power or lack thereof of word of mouth? Good old word of mouth.

It's so important. Look at Amazon, right? You go to book reviews, you're reading those customer reviews. And for us, it's so important to get reviews up there right away. I mean, you can sometimes even say like good Amazon customer reviews are just as important or more important than a New York Times review. You know, like truly that lived, that real feedback is invaluable. Like you have to have it.

Yeah, it's true. And you know, I mean, I think about it like when I'm talking to people, I meet someone new, it's always like, hey, what book have you read lately? Like that's like such a good way to kind of break the ice and see if you like the person, if you're gonna like, we're reading the same kind of things. That's another question there is fiction, right? I mean, I think our minds are a lot of times on nonfiction because that's where our expertise has been for so long. But what about fiction? And any thoughts on that type of stuff for authors?

Well, I think fiction is so— that's really where like Bookstagram thrives too, I think. So books on Instagram, there's so many reviewers that way. And I mean, you're seeing if something's part of Reese's Book Club, it's a New York Times bestseller immediately. If it's part of the Today Show Book Club or Jenna, it's a New York Times bestseller immediately. And they are almost 99% of the time, those are novels, that's fiction. Right. And what authors don't know is that those books are selected probably a year or two in advance. Like as soon as a manuscript is submitted, it's, you know, if a publisher believes in it for those book clubs, like, those discussions start really, really early to coordinate, you know, making sure that they have that many books published if it's selected. I mean, there's so much behind the scenes that, that isn't talked about that should be.

Yeah, right. And, you know, I mean, the power of the publicist too. It's that, you know, the publicists are pitching, they're telling everybody for these, for, you know, all of these big book clubs, hey, this book exists, this book is coming out, this would be terrific. Pick for your book club. So, you know, you do need a great publicist, a great team behind you to help share it, because there's only so much that the author can do at that point. You know, it's— they need those contacts for, for, uh, for that kind of stuff. Um, I want to take one more question from, from Warren. And if you're watching the replay, please leave us questions below. We'll get back to, to you on those in the chat. But, um, his question— it's actually the other one from him. He's, he's— he has lots of questions, uh, for us. So his other one is about content ratio. So basically he's asking, like, how much should you spend on on brand personality content versus the brand boosting others versus selling. He's asking, is it a 70/20/10 rule or what should you put in your mind as far as how much content is free stuff and then what are you selling?

Yeah. Well, Warren's got it right on the dot. That is the ratio that I've used and that I've seen from many other people.

Yeah.

So 70% is you, like I said, behind the scenes, a day in your life. What are you doing? You know, your expertise, you know, free content that you can give, you know, online, you know, whether it's worksheets or like true service that you're providing to your followers. Yeah, 20% is engagement, sharing other people's content, lifting other people up, really working with, you know, that's a way to grow your engagement too is, you know, sharing other people's content and they'll be maybe more likely to share your content and like give that back and forth. And then yeah, 10% is great for, you know, okay, now I have a book coming out and now I'm going to, you know, tell you guys to order my new book or here's a great deal that I'm offering for, you know, my coaching services or media training, things like that. You know, using that 10% to like, okay, now I have your attention on these other things. Here's a quick thing that I'm selling. You don't want to overwhelm people and always be like, buy this, buy that.

And I, you know, I think this goes across the board for any kind of social media. Even if you're doing video, it's one of the things that It's one of my pet peeves that people just start doing videos when they're selling stuff. And I'm always like, that is just a— I know it. As soon as I see these people, all of a sudden I'm like, I bet you they're selling something. There's some product coming out. There's some kind of course that they're selling. And I watch it and I'm like, yep, there it is. And they never engage on video any other time.

So do not be that person. I'm going to pay attention to that now.

Just pay attention because I've noticed it quite a lot with lots of different influencers where it's like they only, they go to video because they're like, oh, it's a big ticket now. We want to sell some stuff, get the videos out.

You should be doing video all the time.

Well, thank you, Warren, for your question. Appreciate that. Courtney, this has been awesome. This has been so fun. I feel like we could talk forever. Yes, we can. And if anyone has any other questions, please leave those for us in the chat boxes. We'll be checking back on that for the replay. You can go check out Courtney's website, if you go to PacificandCourt.com to learn all about what they do over there and to set up a complimentary call with Courtney and her team to talk about how it might look for you to work with with her on your book and your digital marketing and all of that. So Courtney, thank you for being here.

Thank you so much, Paula.

Of course. And I have a freebie for you too. If you go to check out my free list-making starter kit, you go to paularizzo.com/list and check out all of my courses on LinkedIn, of course. And thanks so much for watching. Continue to leave us questions and let me know if there's something that we didn't ask that you want to know all about, and I'll see you next time. Thanks.