From Burnout to Balance

Hey there, welcome to Inside Scoop. I'm Paula Rizzo. The word overwhelmed is used quite a lot. Maybe you said it yourself today, maybe you said it yesterday or this week, or you heard it from a friend or a coworker. However, there is a difference between feeling stressed out and being totally burned out. We're going to talk about the difference and make sure that you can go from being burnt out to balanced. I have a great guest today who I will bring on in just a minute to tell us how to do this because I think a lot of people say, "Oh, I'm so busy. Oh," and you just get through your day and you just keep going and going and going and don't stop and realize, "Hey, actually, I'm completely burnt out and I need to fix that." How do you fix it? We'll talk about all of that. But first, I have a resource for you that I want you to check out and put yourself at the top of your list because that's what we're talking about today is really taking time out to put you on the top of your list. And you know I love to-do lists, so, uh, you could check out my free list-making starter kit if you go to paularizzo.com/list. You'll be on my list. Uh, and I'm also a LinkedIn Learning instructor, and I have a whole bunch of courses on lists, of course, and how to be more productive. But also I have one about how to set boundaries and how to say no. And that's really important for what we're talking about today, because the burnout happens when you keep Saying yes to things that maybe you should be saying no to, and a host of other things that maybe we're doing that is not the best for us. But I'd love for you to check out my LinkedIn Learning courses. You can go to LinkedIn Learning or paularizzo.com/linkedin and you'll find them all there. I want to hear from you throughout the show. So if you're watching right now on live with us or even on the replay, you can leave us your questions below and we'll check those out at the end. Or tag a friend, tag someone who you think is the person who said to you, hey, I'm pretty overwhelmed. I'm a little burnt out. Tag that person below. They could benefit from this conversation. We want to hear from them. We want to be able to help them. So please get them involved. And I'm going to get our guest involved right now. So without further ado, joining us right now is registered dietitian, nutritionist, speaker, author, Patricia Bannon. Thanks for being here.

Hey, Paula Rizzo, great to join you today.

I'm so excited about your new book, So From Burnout to Balance. And there it is. There's our lovely, beautiful cover with all the colors. Tell me, why is it that you found this to be so important to talk about now?

Yeah. Well, so I've been a dietitian for 20 years and wellness is my focus. That's how we met, doing TV segments and media work together and writing articles. And I fell hard into burnout. Um, about 5 years ago I was in Sedona, Arizona. Have you ever been there?

Oh yes. Magical place.

It is magical. I mean the red rocks and everything. And I think because of that location, it just allowed me to kind of unwind and check in. And I had some self-care cause it was a vacation. I took, um, I got a massage and I couldn't move afterwards. It's just, I kind of started to, unwind and then I couldn't rewind. And so I talked to my husband. I'll never forget, we're on a rock and I'm talking. It was years of just one challenge after another. It was a financial challenge. It was how do we create a blended family? It was how do I get pregnant in my 40s and IVF and that challenges and journey. And it was at that point where everything had worked out, had a wonderful relationship, an amazing stepson and blended family dynamic and work was in a good place. And it was kind of, I use that analogy, it's like you pull an all-nighter for an exam.

Yeah.

And you just go, go, go. And then at the end you just are like, ugh, you know? And so I realized I had experienced burnout. And at that point I was still in burnout because the body doesn't bounce back so quickly.

Sure.

But a lot of us don't even know when we're in burnout. You know, it's just, you're in survival mode. You're just one challenge after another, particularly women. Men certainly experience burnout too, but women are more prone to burnout and it can affect them differently. And so after I had gone through this and I realized from a wellness standpoint, it was back to basics. Like I really needed for my own self, nutrition-wise, lifestyle-wise, everything was just back to basics and it helped. And I started talking to other women, talking to other colleagues, talking to other friends, and everyone was so apt to jump in with their story.

Yes.

They had all experienced burnout at some point or they were in it. And you know, I like to put out Part of burnout is the personality type, right? So I like to be achieving and put out my best foot forward and look like I've got it all together. And so by sharing and being vulnerable, other women were all the more apt to share their story. I started researching the topic, got more and more interested, realized it was an epidemic in this country, particularly among women.

Sure.

We don't talk about it enough. There isn't enough support. There is a a lot of support and I put like a list of resources in the book, but we really need more support. We need to recognize it early on because stress is unlikely to turn into burnout when adequate support is available. Okay.

So let's talk about that difference there.

Yeah.

How do we know which one we're in? Because to your point, like we're just going and it's just life. You don't realize that, oh, I'm not supposed to be feeling that way. Oh, I'm not supposed to be an insomniac. Oh, that's weird. I just thought everyone else was. So what are the symptoms that people should be looking out for? And how do we know the difference between what's stress and what's burnout?

Yeah. So I say stress is when you might be like overly connected, overly committed to every task at play. And burnout is when that stress has taken such a toll that you just start to disconnect. You've numbed out, you're just going through the motions. And in 2019, the World Health Organization finally defined burnout as a workplace syndrome, you know? And so, but we've known about it for years. In the '70s, there's something called the Maslach Burnout Inventory, or the MBI, and it measures it on 3 pillars. It's energy exhaustion or depletion. And these are signs where you're like, if you're starting to feel any of these, you're either in burnout or you're headed towards burnout. It's more than just stress. So energy depletion or exhaustion, increased mental distance from work, you're starting to check out from things, even family. You might not be as connected. You might be with them, but you're not really emotionally connected or enjoying it. I felt that with my daughter.

Wow.

You know, a toddler, you know, it's a beautiful, fun moment. And yet I couldn't totally take it in. And then a drop in professional performance. Or you just start doubting your own skill set. So those are all signs that you're headed towards— you're in burnout.

Ah, yeah. And, you know, so that was in 2019 that the WHO came out with this. And, you know, I talk about it a lot too. You know, my books, really help people to not be as stressed out and to get all their lists out and be able to see what's in front of you and maybe outsource some things. But I do talk about burnout a lot too, because you don't know until it starts to hit you that you should not be giving yourself more and more and more to do. And it's very hard to say no. And it's very hard to be able to, once you've been operating at that level, right? It's hard to come back. And to your point, you go to Sedona, it's beautiful, it's amazing. You're in your own little bubble. And then coming back to the world, it's like, "Wait a minute, what is this here?" So what do you tell people to do to really take yourself out of that burnout? How can we recover from this?

Yeah. So you're so right. And while I realized on vacation that I was burnout, burnout, a massage, none of those things are going to cure burnout. It is a much deeper thing. The World Health Organization really talks about it in terms of workplace burnout, which we're experiencing United States, especially with COVID right?

So that was 2019. That was pre-COVID.

Yes. I actually got this— the publisher got on board, Rodale, to do this book, and then COVID hit when I was in the midst of writing the book. So who knows? It was going to up it to a whole new level, a whole new level of challenges. Also, we're all realizing a whole new level of resilience too, right? And learning to pivot and learning to manage our self-care in the midst of new uncertainties or the realization that life has always been uncertain. We just thought it may be neater than it was. But to answer your question, so the book is really, it's part health book, part cookbook. So in the beginning of the book, I dive into the 4 core areas of burnout, which is mood, immunity, focus, and sleep. And then the second part is recipes. So there's 60+ recipes that are all going to help you in terms of feeling your best, getting the nutrients you need. Some of them address each of those 4 core areas. Some have crossover where my salmon recipe is going to help with immunity. It's also going to help with mood. So that's really how I addressed it. So there's lifestyle solutions in there. There's research showing— I mean, guess how many minutes— we all know nature helps, right? Yes. But guess how many minutes you have to be in nature according to one study to get that response to really lift your mood.

How many minutes? I don't know, 5 minutes, 10 minutes?

5 minutes.

5 minutes.

You got it. Just take 5 minutes, which is why having a dog helps because you're forced to—

You have to, yes.

Stop what you're doing, take the dog out, get a little sunshine here in LA or whatever it might be. So there's lifestyle things in there. There's meal plans for each of those ailments. Also the science of burnout. I really dive into that. Why are women experiencing it? How does it affect them differently than men?

So nature, for sure. That's one way to prevent, right? What else? Obviously eating, eating properly, nutrition, you know, any other, any other things there? Getting moving, I guess, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So like mood, immunity, focus, and sleep, you know, mood, I could say like just 5 minutes in nature is one of many things you can do. Immunity, staying hydrated. So important. Simple things like that. It's really going to help. Of course, as you mentioned, you're getting the nutrients and different recipes are going to help. Focus. Focus, interestingly, they found, especially with the microbiome, they found that plants are really important. We know that. You don't have to be vegan, but just including more plants in your diet. And the American Gut Project found that eating 30 or more different plants a week can really promote your microbiome health, which is going to help with mood. It's going to help with focus. They compared it to 10 or more. You go from 10 different plant-based foods, and it doesn't have to be just fruits and vegetables. It can be whole grains, it can be nuts, it can be seeds. And so that's a real way to focus on getting a variety in there is gonna help with your focus. And then sleep. So many things, you know, technology really takes a toll on our sleep. You know, getting the phone away from bed, but it can also help because there's a lot of trackers for sleep.

Ah, yes.

That can help you. It can automatically turn off your phone at a certain time or turn on your phone at a certain time. Or tell you how many— you can set a limit how much time you've spent on a certain app or something like that. So you can also use it to your benefit in terms of finding your me time or checking out or getting better sleep.

Yeah, for sure. And I want to pause here for just a second and let everybody know if you have any questions, please, please let us know. Leave them in the chat boxes below. We'll get to them at the end. And, you know, Amy just posted on Facebook and she says exactly. So she's, she's feeling it. She says, like trying to be a professional working 50 hours plus per week and balancing personal and home life. Yeah, it's all of it, right? It's every single— it's hard to compartmentalize yourself, right? And be like, okay, now I'm in, you know, for you, mom mode. Now I'm in professional mode. Now I'm in, you know, and, and you mentioned that women and men deal with burnout differently. How so? And, and what should, you know, what could we do?

Well, I think it's twofold. I think one is women have, uh, different challenges, um, not that men don't have many challenges, but overall in each couple, each person's different. Overall, women, especially we saw this with COVID and we're still seeing it, right? We're supposed to parent like we don't have work. You throw homeschooling into that. I was just chatting with you before we started here today and I have a toddler and no childcare and yet both my husband and I are trying to, we have our own business. So you have to parent like you don't have work and you have to work like you don't have parent, like you're not a parent. So that is super challenging. Women in general are much more responsible for home chores, home maintenance, all of that, keeping everything running, keeping the family running. They're also then in the workplace, they have found women are often assumed to or asked to take on more at every level, no matter where they are, of like the office things. Like, "Hey, could you be responsible for this party or for someone's birthday or for picking something up?" And it still happens. There's unique challenges in terms of the stress we face that can manifest into burnout. We're also more apt to think about other people. We make 33 decisions in a day.

Ah, wow.

On average, we make about 200 decisions a day just about food. So talk about decision fatigue.

Yeah.

And then for women, when it comes to those decisions, you know, I'd say about half of those are for other people.

Yes, totally. You know, it's so funny because a good friend of mine, Sharon, who I hope is watching, she and I talk about stress and burnout and things. She's my roommate from college. And we talk a lot about food decisions. And she has a child and her husband, and it's me, it's just me and my husband, but it's always like, "What are we going to feed these people? Again, they have to eat again." And during COVID it became like, "Oh my God, breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks. How can we do this anymore? I can't even deal." It does become too much. But let's talk about— So people now know, right? We've given them the sip, the here's what you need to look out for. So if you now know and you truthfully feel, hey, I feel like I'm burned out, I am burned out, what should they do first? Because once you realize it, that's great, but then what's your first move? Because there's so many things that you could be doing. What should you really focus on first?

Yeah. So awareness is key. You know, just, just understanding where you are. Awareness is key. And then I can't tell each person what their first step is. All I can say is it's a back to basics. And I gave a presentation on this and I talked about having your toolkit with the 3 go-to things, whether you're stressed or in full-out burnout. Because for me, I mean, I went through it, I wrote a book about it. I'm so prone to it.

Sure.

I still, you know, get anxious or overwhelmed or whatever, and I have to go back to my toolkit. So I'd say, you know, for yourself, what are those 3 go-to things? Some of the things for me, and I just had acupuncture the other day, I mean, that's one of the things that I get a big return on my hour investment, or thank goodness this one was actually a copay, because it can be expensive. But knowing, or is it, sometimes it's just an hour hike. I got to get out in nature. I think I'm grateful I live in Los Angeles where usually it's a beautiful day and getting some nature time. But what are those 3 things that are kind of your back to base? Basics. Also, because of the decision fatigue, when I was burned out, it was just a nourishing breakfast, same breakfast throughout the week. One less decision. I use the example in my book, my husband wears the same black t-shirt almost every day. He's got a stack of black t-shirts.

The uniform.

The uniform. You know, anything we can do to reduce our decision fatigue, to just get back to basics back to that balanced place. So I can't say what it is for you, but think about, you know, what are those 3 things that you can always revert to or just say, "Okay, you know, I'm feeling this way. I can take it out of my toolkit and start implementing them daily." Yeah, that's helpful.

That's very helpful to say, "Okay, think about it," and also to start knowing yourself really, to start seeing and stopping yourself and saying, "How do I feel when I do this thing?" There's a lot in my second book, Listful Living, it's a journal. And so it's meant to stop you from just going into your go mode and seeing, how do I feel when I'm around that person? How do I feel when I do that activity? How do I feel when I'm with that client or whatever it is? And just be mindful, stop yourself, write it down and remember, oh, you know what? I feel fantastic after I do yoga. Why aren't I doing that more?

Right. Right.

And not talking yourself out of it.

Absolutely. And the two examples I gave, the third one is a breathing exercise. Hmm. You know, inhaling for 4 seconds, exhaling for 4 seconds because it's free. It's quick.

Right?

So, so you might not have an hour to go on a hike. You might not have the weather to go on a hike. You might not have the money or capability to get acupuncture or massage or whatever. And again, you know, those things are lovely, but they're not going to cure burnout, but it's, it's slowing down your life. Recognizing it. And so it can be as simple as breathing exercises once a day or a few times a day or turning off your phone at a certain time. Those things are all going to add up in terms of getting back to your balance.

Yeah. Give yourself that time. Christine on LinkedIn is so glad that her children are adults and can feed themselves, although they are still at home 21 to 24. But that's good. You have people who are independent and can do their thing, Bravo, Christine. Good for you. Uh, Terry has a question from LinkedIn. Uh, she says, how do you know if it's burnout or time for a career change? Are there different symptoms? Interesting.

Yeah. So, um, we have found a profound shift during COVID in women leaving the workplace. Um, and unfortunately, a lot of the new jobs that opened up, the majority of them were taken by men because women, again, this like expecting to do, you know, parent if you don't have work. And so a lot of women just had to step back, which is unfortunate from a woman power perspective of like less women at the table, so to speak. But I can't give you an exact answer, but it's something that you really need to take a look at. You know, is it solely this is not a good fit? This job is not supporting you, but doing a little bit of soul searching in terms of what do you really want? Are you just going through the motions because it's safe or it's what you're used to or you're on autopilot because you're so stressed? Like, what do you really want in terms of your work environment? And then sometimes, hopefully, you have the communication ability. Sometimes you just have to talk to your boss or talk to who you're working with and restructure things. Yeah. Or really ask for what you need or ask for, you know, more of the role that you want to be playing that's more fulfilling. Because what we find is, someone mentioned earlier, you know, working 50+ hours a week, productivity decreases. We've seen that over and over again. You know, many countries are starting to look at a 4-day work week. So there's something to be said about the amount of time you work, but you may have experienced this, Paula Rizzo, because you've had different jobs. And so it's the amount of time you're working, but it's also how much you're enjoying it. Because there are times where I have worked worked, you know, a lot, but I, I, it was a creative project. Yeah. So it didn't feel like work. You know, maybe with this livestream and you diving into the list making, like it's, it's so touches your soul and it's so your passion that it doesn't feel like work. So it's, it's the amount of time and it's also, is it, you know, you're putting more energy out and you feel depleted or is it energizing you and, and how can you create that balance as well and find the passion you're looking for because that's going to fuel you regardless of the hours.

Yeah, I agree. I think, Terri, for you, to just now notice it and to say, within your day, how do you feel in the morning when you sit down at your desk or when you meet with people or whatever it is? Really check in with yourself, morning, noon, and night, and see, how do I feel and why? Is it because I was around these people who are toxic? Is it because I hate doing this job? What is the thing? You might not figure it out in a day. It might take a little while of you noticing yourself and understanding, then to Patricia's seeing is this depleting you or is this something that what does energize you? And maybe that's not it. So, thanks for your question. I appreciate that. And Patricia, this has been fabulous. We've had so many great little tips and tricks in there. I know there's recipes also in the book. Are there any favorites that you can tease for us? Anything that you would recommend?

Oh, there's a lot. It's hard. They're all my baby. But one I'd say is this This is a sheet pan salmon. What I love about this is it is a one-sheet balanced meal, right? So it's super easy. You put the potatoes in first, you roast it for a bit because they take longer, then you add on the asparagus. You can add the snap peas as a supercharger. You put the salmon fillets on there, but the kicker here is a citrus miso sauce. It's delicious. You can— I always double it up because it works great on a salad or a grain bowl throughout the day or throughout the week, rather. You can keep it in the fridge. And so things like that. I mean, it's super tasty. I actually demo it on my Instagram page. I just did a little reel showing you how to make the citrus miso sauce. Probiotics for gut health, helps with mood, vitamin C for immunity. So you've got nutrients in there and also just great flavor. It's super easy to make. I use that when I'm entertaining oftentimes because I want to be present with my guests. Yeah. And because I tend to be a perfectionist and whatever, and I want everything to look a certain way, that I— the party ends and I'm like, that was more stressful than enjoyable. So I have to take a step back and be like, how can I set this up so I can actually enjoy myself?

Totally. And the one pan is a great— that's a great hack because it's like everything's there, all one thing. You're not like, you know, boiling something over here and doing this. Everything's all together, which makes it so much easier. Uh, you mentioned Instagram, so I want to give you a shout out on Instagram. Uh, you know, if, uh, definitely follow Patricia, you know, get the book by Patricia is where you can go. And I know you're doing some giveaways if you want to tell us about, about that.

So every month or so I do a giveaway. I call it a self-care giveaway, but it's usually a $50 Amazon gift card to treat yourself to something. And then just for Valentine's Day, I did that along with a copy of my book. And there'll be more giveaways this year related to the book and just related to ways to find more balance and wellness in your life.

Awesome. And anybody can go grab the book. It is available now. But if you go to PatriciaBannon.com, you can get a free chapter of the book. And check out what Patricia's all about. And thank you, Patricia, for being here. I'm glad we could meet up again.

Yes.

Years since I interviewed you when I was a TV producer, years and years ago, doing health news. And now here we are still talking about this stuff.

So hopefully— I know.

—we're giving people some good stuff. So thanks for being here. And to all of you, if you're watching on the replay, please leave questions below. We're happy to answer those in the question boxes below. And I also would love to give you a little freebie. I have a list-making starter kit, which if you go to paularizzo.com/list, you can check that out. Also, I have a LinkedIn Learning course that I think will be really helpful for this conversation, and it's all about how to set boundaries and protect your time. So if you subscribe to LinkedIn Learning, you'll be able to grab that and check it out. And I hope that these tips really do help you. I get it. Burnout is a real thing. This is not something that you have to do alone. And thanks for watching, and we'll talk to you all soon. Thanks.