Cookbook author Nikki Dinky built a veggie-focused brand by posting daily videos shot on her phone, edited in InShot. She leveraged early YouTube and Instagram to land TV appearances and a book deal, emphasizing consistency, a clear niche, and relationships with producers over polished production.
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Hello, welcome to Inside Scoop. I'm Paula Rizzo. Today we are talking all about buzzworthy video, something that I love, right? You all love it. You know, you're watching, you're looking at your phone and it's like, oh, and you stop and watch that one. What is it that that one has, and how can you create that to make sure that people know all about whatever it is that you're doing— your book, your, you know, your business, whatever it is that's important to you. I have a guest today who has been doing this for quite a long time and has some very, very exciting news about a brand new book that she has coming out. So I'm going to introduce Nikki Dinkie in a few moments, uh, to talk all about that and, you know, to make sure that you're not only promoting the things that you're doing and that are most important to you and your business. But you're also helping people, that you're doing things and using media and you're using video in a way that is really helpful. So we're going to talk all about that. And I have a little freebie for you, because if you don't make time for things right and you don't put it on your to-do list, you don't actually do it. So if you go to paularizzo.com/list, you can check out my list-making starter kit to be able to, you know, be a little bit less stressed, make sure you get some more stuff done. I'm also a LinkedIn Learning instructor and I have several courses on the platform. All about things like how to set boundaries, how to take your time back, how to make sure that you can enhance your productivity in a hybrid work environment, or if you're working from home, whatever it might be. I want to hear from you throughout this video. So please make sure that whether you're watching the replay or you're here with us live, share this right now. Put somebody who you think will really benefit from this, who's, who's been trying to get videos started in their business, tag them below. Tell them, hey, hey, this is the time. This is the time for you to hang out and ask some questions live. So tag them below and share the video. Also ask us questions throughout. We're going to save that towards the end, but please feel free to ask questions. We'll get to those as soon as we can, whether you're watching the replay or you're here live. Without further ado, I'm going to bring on a friend of mine who has been fabulous at promoting video and all sorts of things. Nikki Dinky, hello my dear!
Hello, it's so good to be here.
Good to be— good to see you. My gosh, I feel like, you know, the first time we met was back when your first book came out. And Meat on the Side was that book, right?
It was. I feel like I should have a copy to like pull out, and of course it's upstairs, but it looks something like this, like a book. Uh, exactly.
But the new one, years ago, the new— exactly. And so when I was a producer at Fox News, I interviewed you. We've stayed in touch ever since. I've been watching your journey on Instagram because that's where you hang out most of the time. And the new book is called More Veggies Please, More Veggies, Please. There it is. We're encouraging everybody to go get that. And not only if you have kids, but for anybody, you know. So, so tell us a little bit about this, this new book that you have.
So More Veggies, Please. Yes, it's targeted towards families, but truly it's for anyone. It is all your classic American staples, your mac and cheeses, your chicken nuggets, your chicken tenders, your meatloaf with a surprising veggie twist. So that mac and cheese has cauliflower and sweet potato in it. And my chicken nuggets have carrots and white beans. Even my chocolate chip cookies have white beans. So it's really a way to just get more variety of vegetables in your diet while still having things like queso. You know, I really wanted to keep the flavors super classic because I want this to truly replace your current favorite recipe. So it's not really about it being so low cal or low fat. It's about how do I add vegetable to these dishes Yes, to make it more nutritious, but to truly make it hopefully that much more delicious. That should totally be a tagline. I think it is. Yes, it is. As I was saying it, I was like, oh, this rhymes.
Wait, but you are not anti-meat.
You are not vegetarian.
I am not anti-meat.
My first, no, sorry, my first book, Meat on the Side, is just simply about how do I rethink my plate so that the vegetables are the larger, more entrée-sized portion of your plate, and then the meat is on the side. So not saying that we don't have to have meat, but let's have less of it. And let's cook those vegetables in some new and exciting ways where we feel like we can eat less meat. So this book also celebrates veggies, um, but it's not so strict as far as how much meat are in things. It's more about how do I infuse a current favorite with veggies. But there are some great examples in here, like my taco meat, which uses a pound of beef but also uses a whole can of beans. And in the end, it ends up being about half beef, half beans,, but I do it in a way that you really can't tell. And suddenly we're eating less meat. So in both books, it's the idea of like, really, what can we do with vegetables to make all these things less expensive, more nutritious, and truly more delicious?
Yes. Look at you. I love it. Well, you know, from the first book, I remember there was a meatball recipe, but it was with zucchini and maybe eggplant or something that was super yummy. And I made that several times. I have to say, your recipe—
I had a meatball recipe that was all veggies.
Yes.
And in this book, what I've done, because I didn't want to push that flavor envelope so far, especially for kids, I wanted to make sure if your kid loves meatballs, that they're going to love these meatballs.
Sure.
And so for this book, what I did, and I'm trying to find my meatball recipe here, but you know, it's going to not be where I want it to be. Um, the meatballs, what I did is basically instead of your, you know, milk-soaked bread that you would normally find in a meatball mixture, I am putting in pureed eggplant. So that's our moisture element. And that's what makes a beautiful meatball. And so it's got the beef in it, it's got the seasonings, but it's also got that pureed eggplant, which just kind of melts into the background, gives it moisture and flavor, but does help stretch that meat and does help, of course, add something like eggplant into a dish that would definitely have no veggies otherwise. And especially if you're feeding it to your kids, I always feel just extra good when my kids eat things like eggplant because they never would otherwise.
Exactly right. They'd be like, what's that? I don't want that. Well, this This is, this is fabulous. And, you know, I think there's, there's something to also be said about your point of view, which is very strong, and that you've always had. You know, there's never been any wishy-washiness about you. It's always been like, veggies are my thing, and that's what I'm going to infuse here. And that's really important for people who are looking to build a platform. You know, if you're for everything, then no one knows what you're for, right? They don't know where to stick you. I mean, the same thing with me, you know, for productivity. They think about lists, they think about me, right? Are there other things I can talk about? Totally. But, you know, I think when it comes to promoting yourself, doing videos, getting yourself out there in the world, it is important to be sort of like in your lane. Um, and when I first, you know, found about— out about you, obviously I was, I was, um, I was— I still am a big Food Network fan. And so I was watching, you were on Next Food Network Star, and, you know, your point of view was the same as it is right now. So talk to me about that, because I think a lot of people struggle with finding the thing that then they're going to be known for and what they're going to be, you know, talking about and all of that. How has that journey been for you? Because you didn't always love veggies. That's the moral of the story here.
That is. So I didn't eat a single vegetable till I was 20, 20 years old. At 10 years old, I was such a picky eater. I gave my family a really, really hard time and my mom just threw in the towel. You know, she had 5 kids and she couldn't do it anymore. So at 10 years old, my mom said, "You can eat whatever you want, but I'm not going to make it for you." So I cooked for myself from 10 on. And you better believe that didn't include any vegetables. And so it really wasn't until I was in New York, you know, as an adult at 20 years old, that really for social reasons, I was like, man, I can't go to a restaurant and just eat the bread again. You know, like, it's embarrassing. And I also started to realize that I probably could be feeling better. I was used to always feeling a certain way, but it kind of dawned on me that if I haven't eaten vegetables in 10 years, like, maybe I could be feeling better than I was that day. And so I slowly learned to love vegetables and truly learned as an adult that if you eat something enough times, you can go from hating it to loving it. If you have a tomato 20, 30, even 50 times, depending on, you know, what it takes, you can truly go from, ooh, I don't like that, to, oh, this is yummy.
You—
and you develop a lot of those tastes as a kid, but if you don't, you can develop them as an adult. And I do think that my book helps with some of that exposure. And so, you know, when I first got into the food world, I definitely, you know, knew that I tended towards vegetarian cooking. I loved my veggies and that's something that had become really a strong part of my life, but I still ate meat here and there. And then I was going on this competition show on the Food Network, you know, their highest rated show. And I knew that when you went on there, you're supposed to kind of have your point of view. And that was my first lesson, I think, in really having a niche, you know, like what is it about you that we're going to pay attention to? Because sure, once I start following you, I might just like you know, your crazy personality. I might, you know, think your kids are cute. You gotta hook someone in some way, make them, give them a reason to start paying attention. Yeah. So I thought, how do I cook though? I, it's like I wanted to go with vegetarian, but I'm not really a vegetarian. And so I thought I really cook in this way that I end up calling meat on the side. I celebrate veggies. I cook them a little bit uniquely, but I still incorporate meat here and there. And when I started realizing that the way that I cook was also really important for our environment, it's really important for all these different things, I felt like I was onto something. And when I got on the show, the very first day you walk in there and you go up on stage in front of Bobby Flay and Giada and Elton Brown, and you give a little spiel. Who are you? And I said, I cook and I weigh meat on the side. And I told them about vegetables being the entree portion of the plate. And I just felt like everyone lit up and I felt like I am onto something. And that's another good lesson. You know, you gotta, you gotta get out of your own head. You might think something is brilliant, but you got to put it out in front of people and make sure that they agree. And you know what? At different times in your life, at different times in our society, things are going to hit. So, you know, put some stuff out there and see what's landing with people, but make sure it's true to yourself, of course.
Sure.
Well, you know, really, I started this journey of me on the side, and I think the number one lesson that I say to people that want to get into food or maybe have an Instagram page or a food blog I say, what's your thing? And they're like, oh, well, I love this and this and this and this. And I'm like, nope, you gotta choose one thing. You know what? Grow your audience and grow big enough. And then you can start to expand. But you gotta start with very clearly, what is my reason for following you? Sure. Is it kid-focused food? Is it vegetarian? Is it, you know, that you're a chef that's gonna show me how to butcher every kind of meat? What is, what's your thing? So yeah, I always tell people, you gotta find a niche. That's the number one thing. You know, and then you can expand. And I feel like me on the side, though this book is a little different. Yes. Still, how do I incorporate vegetables in unique ways? How do I celebrate them? And so I have expanded a little in my own brand.
Yeah.
But it's still, I'm still giving people this reason to follow me. Yeah.
I mean, that's the thing. It's like, you want to be front of mind when people think about this one thing. So for you it's veggies, right? It's like, oh, it's veggies, but I don't have to be a vegetarian. Right. It's not restrictive. It's not, you know, so that's sort of, it's important to also crowdsource, as you mentioned, to be able to say, 'Hey, let's see what people think of this.' When you saw, you know, Bobby Flay and Giada De Laurentiis like, 'Oh, that's interesting, we haven't heard that before,' that's when you know you're on to something, you know? Because otherwise it's like everybody has heard and seen everything, honestly, you know? And as a TV producer for years, I was that person too. I was like, 'Yeah, we heard this. Ah, this is the same as everybody else. Everybody else is doing that thing.' So you really need to be able to have, you know, something a little different that will stop people when they're scrolling. I want to talk a little bit about your strategy. I mean, maybe it was purposeful, maybe it wasn't, but you know, spoiler alert, you were cut from the, from the series. You were not the next Food Network star. I'm sorry, this was many years ago, so I'm sure the wound, the wounds have, have, uh, have healed a bit. Um, but that did not happen. But that did not stop our, our dear Nikki here. She continued to create video and be seen out there and continue to do things. And I remember watching you because, you know, we, we had met and I did an interview with you, and I started following you on Instagram and seeing that very early on you were a very early adopter and you did Food Trend Friday, was your show. And you— and I was like, she is doing it right. I mean, I would give presentations about how to do video and I would use you as an example, like for years, and say like, this woman didn't wait to be given a show. She literally said, I can do this myself, and if somebody else gets excited about it, cool. You know, if a network wants to, to then bring me on or whatever it is, great, but I'm going to create the content myself. So what has been your, your, your thought process before that, uh, for that? And also, I mean, you know, you are an early adopter, which I do love.
So, you know, yeah, I think that, I think that one of the things that got me to a good place in the food world is that I was one of the first to YouTube. And no, I did not have the craziest following, or I did not become a huge YouTuber, but I was on YouTube creating videos before we had phones like this. So I needed to have an actual camera and an editing studio on my computer. And that was something that a lot of people didn't have. So simply being on YouTube at the time that I was, let's say, I don't know, 12, 15 years ago, I got followers and my videos were not that great. But it was a lesson for me in I want to do something. You know, I was drinking wine with a friend in her backyard in Brooklyn. And she's a great creative friend of mine, a great actor. And I was talking about my acting career and how I loved food so much and I wanted to do more hosting. And she said, well, why aren't you doing more stuff in food? And I said, you know, I didn't go to culinary school. Like, I don't know if I'm a real, like, authority. And she was like, stop. She's like, you talk about food endlessly. You know way more than me. You always teach me something. So you have something to teach people. And I realized I had something to say. And so I just started kind of sharing what I had to say and my culinary journey grew also. But I think that, you know, just putting it out there, you have something to say. And I think that it did help me that I was early, but honestly, I didn't blow up on YouTube. It just kind of gave me a platform. Once I presented myself as a food personality and as a chef, now other people took me seriously. So I did the YouTube channel and then suddenly there was a radio station in New York that because I had the YouTube channel, you know, took me seriously enough and included me as part of their arts and food and culture show.
Ah, so hang on a second. This right here is a very important lesson in media begets media. So even if you're creating your own media and someone sees it, members of the media love that because they're like, who's out there already creating? Who do I already know is going to be good at this and want to talk about it? So you, you grab them that way.
Yes, I, you know, I, I was, I was a wannabe chef. I didn't have a restaurant. I didn't have anything to legitimize me. So I started creating my own content and putting it out there. And suddenly people were like, oh, well, she does, she does food stuff. She has food videos. And they let me kind of go to that next level. And then once I had a radio show here in New York, well, and then I started my own blog. Suddenly I had a food blog. I had a radio show. I had a YouTube channel and people, you know, took me seriously. So I actually auditioned for Food Network Star. The competition show on Food Network where you, you know, compete to get your own show. I auditioned for it at least 3 years, and the first year I only had the YouTube channel, and I could just tell they kind of had a glossed-over look, and they just felt like I didn't, I didn't have enough. Like, who are you? You know, they might have liked my personality, but they just didn't feel like I had enough, you know, to my name. The second year I came back, I had the YouTube channel and the radio show, a little bit more interest, but guess what? I didn't get it. The third year though, when suddenly I had the food blog that was successful, once again, not crazy successful, but successful enough that it legitimized me. And that's a lot of just me putting time into it, making sure it looks a certain way, even if there's not a lot of traffic. And that's something we can talk about in a second, but I always believe in presenting yourself, you know, when you're trying to kind of get to that next level, presenting yourself like you're at that next level so that people watching you kind of already assume that. And you know what, even if no one's really seeing it, there's going to be someone that sees it and they're going to take you more seriously because you're presenting yourself in a professional way. But by that third time, when I went back to Food Network Star, because I had presented myself in all these different formats now as a chef, suddenly I got on the show. And once you're on TV, I mean, now you're done. You're good. And I kept growing and kept presenting myself in a way. But there is something so powerful about you want to do something? Well, do it. And I was doing it before it was easy. Guess what? We all have one of these now. You want to do something? Something, you want to be a crafter, you want to be a chef, you want to, you know, advise people on business, we'll do it. And the best thing you can do is just start. Just start talking. You're gonna get more and more, you know, comfortable with it. And as you have more time, you know, you start getting a couple lights, you start making sure your lighting is good and your mic is good. But really, we are so empowered that we can just create what we want to create. And there's so much money to be made off of the stuff that we're putting online. So even if that online community that you're growing doesn't mean that you get your own show or whatever your goal is, it doesn't even almost matter anymore because everything is online. So we have power if you're willing to put in the time and you're willing to think about what your perspective is and, you know, and present yourself in the right way.
Yeah. I mean, it is really important to just do it, to just really start. And that's what people That's why people don't do it. They just say, "Oh, the technology. Oh, I'm not sure how to—" And now there's no excuse. Everybody knows how to use this phone. You've all taken videos and photos with this phone and it's pretty great. I have to say, you do not need to have a professional camera to start to do any of these videos. And honestly, starting out, it doesn't really matter. If you look back at anybody who's started videos on the internet, their first videos are not great and that's okay. That's actually pretty lovely. It's wonderful. You start to do more and more. And so talk, walk us through what your process is now with video, because now, you know, you have an assistant who helps you with your videos and things like that. So it's a little bit more advanced.
It's a little bit more advanced. And yet we do everything on the phone now. I have, it's over there. I have a beautiful big Canon D750 camera, you know, X amount of dollars and we don't even use it anymore because This is just as good and it provides the right format for what we're looking at. And really all you need is a phone. So when I'm doing my videos, you know, I'm lucky enough now to have a studio kitchen in my home, which with 3 young kids is extra helpful because it's in the basement. It's a little quieter. Oh, that's good. You know, we, we've worked on our lighting situation and now we kind of know it's very easy to walk down here, turn the lights on, put my phone in the stand and know what's looking good. Sure, you can't do it at home. You just need to make sure that, you know, there's a light by your phone. So, uh, you make sure you got good light on your face, uh, make sure you're close enough to talk, use your earbuds if you need. Um, but yeah, we're doing everything with some more professional lighting, but we're still shooting everything on the phone. I'm editing, editing it in a free, um, editing program called InShot. It's totally free, just everything you need. And I love editing on InShot instead of in TikTok or in Reels. Yeah. Because it gives me more control. So I can, I don't have to shoot it in real time and maybe that clip was too long or too short, or I, it was like too fast. I have a little bit more control on the other end. So I create the videos on an InShot, you know, video, video editing program. And then I upload to Reels. I upload to TikTok. But how often are you doing, how often are you doing videos?
Like, what is your, what's your output now? What's your production schedule look like?
You know, so, you know, it depends. It kind of ebbs and flows and I've been trying to be relaxed with that, but you know, they all say, and it is true, consistency is key. Yeah, for sure. You actually want to see that, you know, you're not going to, there's a chance you put something up on Instagram or you put something up on TikTok. Of course, there's a chance it might go viral. But your better chance at hitting that moment or growing is by posting once a week, maybe even once a day if you can do that. Um, my current schedule is trying to post once a day. You know, I did just have a book come out and so I really want to capitalize on the people that are discovering me for the first time. If they come to my Instagram, I want there to be something on there that they like or they comment on because then Instagram is going to think, oh, that person really likes Nikki and they're going to keep on, um, they're gonna keep on showing, you know, my stuff to them. And so I love, I love to be putting some stuff out there as much as possible. And so we are trying to post once a day some sort of video content, and then maybe twice a day if it's something like a still photo. Um, you know, but you gotta do, you gotta, I think the most important thing is let's think ahead what's really realistic in your schedule. For sure. And once a week.
And could you, you know, could you batch, could you batch some of it? You know, could you do it in a way that it's like, hey, every Friday I'm going to do a whole bunch of videos and then I'll have them and we have enough videos for the next 2 weeks or the next 2 months or whatever it is that you decide to do. Like I'm a big, I'm a big proponent of thinking ahead and, you know, preparing things and all that.
I think, I think of social media as, oh, but it's like in the moment and I have to post this today. Yeah. Um, the best thing you can do to get on top of your social media and stay consistent, yes, is to plan out a couple of days. I actually had 2 days planned out today that we were going to do nothing but shooting video. And then those videos would be edited over a period of time. I had to lose one of the days because I also felt like my real life was falling apart. Right. And so I took some time because I just was not like keeping up. And sometimes you need to do that, you know, you just need to do what's good for you. But the more that you can dedicate some time to batching these videos and don't overthink it, just shoot something. It's fine. Even if your lighting stinks, it doesn't really matter anymore because it's become So people like that realistic tone. Though I should say I am choosing to do more of a studio lighting and look because I want to present myself as a television host. And because I want the producers of the world that are following me to see me in this environment that reminds them of their show or whatever, and makes it really easy for them to think of me when a segment comes up. Sure. I've kind of chosen to present myself a little extra professionally because I want to do things in that space. But truly, the best TikTokers and stuff are—
it's poor lighting, it's just totally in their car, like wherever they are. Yeah, exactly. But you know, you do a mix of videos, right? Like some of them are very slickly produced and really great. I used to love the ones that you did that were like the silent films that you had. You would bring it, they were so cute, and you would bring in like whatever it was, whatever the, the ingredient was, and then it was just like you not talking with this cute video. It was like so fun and great music. But then you also do videos where you're, you know, on doing stories on Instagram where it's like like you in your living room saying like, uh, I'm trying to decide— or in your, in your closet— I'm trying to decide what outfit to wear. What do you guys think? So, you know, you do a really good job, I think, of showing both like the professional polished part of yourself and like, okay, here is me as an authority on food and how you should cook it, and then here is me also like, oh my gosh, do I need to get this, uh, seat for this dining room table? You know what I mean? Like, it just— there's a lot of your personality there too. How do you feel about sharing your personal life? Because some people don't like doing that.
They don't. I look at social media now in different parts because especially Instagram has given us different ways to reach people. Instagram has Instagram Stories, which are 24 hours. They disappear. They're meant to be very real. I'm talking to you today on Inside Scoop. And then we have our Reels, which are videos, which are likely something a touch more produced. Um, and then we have our static posts, which might be photos. And so I kind of look at it as I, I want to present an array of me looking very polished. I've got my eyelashes on so people understand that I can do this, especially when I'm giving them tips and knowledge like a recipe. But I think that popping on Instagram Stories is very important to simply just kind of wash the makeup off and give people the real Nikki, because people love that kind of peek behind the scenes, that voyeuristic view of your life, which can be a little voyeuristic. And, you know, my husband has zero interest in being on social media. If you search his name, you won't even see a picture come up. So he doesn't want to be on my Instagram because he's more private. Something that we've discussed is having our kids be basically off of Instagram or any other social media sites. So I tend to show the back of their heads or maybe a little corner of their face. But even on my book, you know, we have my daughter on the COVID but it's the back of her head. So it's kind of a hint. So it can be, you know, I'm probably more comfortable with sharing with people. Maybe I've just done it more. You know, I so often talked and shared and cried on social media. Yeah. And I just kind of believe that our world is getting so online and so integrated that, you know, people are going to see everything anywhere. It's hard to remain private anymore. Sure. I think that— so I think there's a nice mix of, you know, show yourself, make sure you're giving people something, an actual tip, an actual information, but then just give them you because people want to be connected to you. You know, Khloé Kardashian is not the most interesting person in the whole world, but we just know her enough. We all know her enough that we're interested. Yeah, people are going to be interested in you just because they're seeing you and they want to see like, well, where's the rest of the studio kitchen? Where is that exactly? How do you do that? Yeah. How do you do that? And I think that for me, one of those things was showing the process of making this book.
Ah, that's what I was going to say too, which was great because from beginning to end, people knew, oh, Nikki's thinking of starting a new book or writing a new book. She's thinking of what, what should I title it? She's thinking of what recipes should I put in it? Uh, what should I wear for the COVID and for the shoot? All of that stuff, you involved the Instagram community and me involved, cause I was watching too, uh, you know, to see what are you doing? And people feel really invested in that. Super invested.
You know, I think that I don't have the biggest platform in the world. Um, my numbers are growing, but I'm still well under 100,000. And so I felt like, how do I get people— this little bit smaller audience that I have in comparison to the Body Flays of the world— how do I get people to really be invested in this book? How do I make sure that they buy that on day one? No one is giving them actual good content, which is a passion of mine. To make sure that I really am providing recipes that are tested to the nth degree. But I felt like, and luckily my publisher agreed, if I could take people on this journey, which in the end it was all I had to talk about because we were in the middle of a pandemic and a lot of me with no makeup and a lot of kids in my book. So at least the book was a little bit more interesting for the most part. But I really, I really felt like sometimes we see these beautiful cookbooks and we feel like they're just produced. And we don't actually realize that this was the second cover that we shot, and the reason that the first one didn't work was the shirt that I was wearing. And I actually designed this whole thing. And, you know, I had to ask all these people, "Will you give me a quote for my book?" You know, I decided to put these little arrows that say chickpeas and sweet potatoes to let people know the theme of the book. You know, once we got into the recipes, I chose to, you know, highlight and bold the secret veggie ingredient in the recipe. So once again, I was kind of being hit in the face over and over again with what the concept of the book was if I just picked it up at Barnes Noble. Um, and so I, I really wanted to involve my audience and let them understand the hard work that goes into this. So there's a couple reasons why I involve Instagram so intimately. I wanted them to understand the hard work that went into it, and I also really wanted their opinions. I often asked You know, what do you think is healthier, honey or sugar? You know, would you rather me put 2 squash in this recipe, but you're going to have to cook it and squeeze it with a dish towel? Or do you want to keep it simple and do 1, not have to do that, but have less veggies? And that was something that I would have put 2 in, but everyone said 1. And it's really good just to understand what's, you know, what an audience wants. And then also, you know, what's available to them in the cooking world. You know, is it easy for you to find canned lentils? So these were all the questions that I kept asking people. Which I think that they enjoyed. And I think in the end they realized, you know, all these, all these photos were shot on my dining room floor. You know, people saw that. And there are some pictures of my kids only in the book. And, you know, these are all things that people now got to see the process of how it came together.
Sure, right. I got to see that. And that's, I mean, and that makes them more invested. I want to see how it turned out. I want to see what happened.
You know, how did the book come together? It's so polished that you sometimes don't understand. How it got to that point, that it's actually an individual, you know, and my publisher was fantastic in supporting all of these ideas of mine and this vision. But you know, when it comes to a cookbook, for the most part, there's one individual creating these recipes and designing this book, you know, with a lot of great help. But yeah, I just want people to understand that and see that. And I think in the end, sharing the real behind-the-scenes process of creating a cookbook made people that much more intrigued to hopefully check it out. Yeah, absolutely.
And I want to talk about your media strategy in a minute because obviously that's how we met through traditional media. But there is a question about video tools that I want to pop up. Um, uh, you know, someone says from, uh, LinkedIn, thanks for sharing InShot. I also had not heard of InShot, so I will be checking that out as well. Uh, and what other tools do you like to use? Like, do you use anything to schedule your posts or, you know, touch things up, anything like that?
Yeah, you know, I, I have in the past. I haven't been using, um, a scheduler. I at one point felt like Instagram wasn't like, almost knew that I was scheduling things and wasn't showing it to as many people. And I'm lucky enough, yeah, I'm lucky enough to have an assistant that works with me remotely. And so, you know, we set up a schedule where she posts any of my just straight food shots that have a recipe under it. So she pulls things from my book and whatnot. And at this point I trust her so much that I barely look at those captions. And so I know that she's posting every other day, which takes a little bit of pressure off of me. And I know that I'm posting on Mondays and Wednesdays and whatever. So because of that and having that load lighten a little, I haven't used a scheduler, but I think some people have a lot of success with those. I forget some of the hot ones, but you know, it's an easy thing to—
Hootsuite and those kinds of, yeah.
That's one I used a while ago and I actually was doing some research recently and I don't think that scheduling ahead hurts your, your reach. So I do think that most people are saying that if you schedule ahead or if you post organically on Instagram, you know, Instagram doesn't care or know. So I think the scheduling ahead, especially to stay consistent, can be fantastic. But truly, it's, it's really just InShot, my phone, and there is not much other fancy things that I'm using. That's kind of it. I do, you know, have some people that help me with graphics and there's some wonderful people that you can find online. There is a website that I've used, Upwork. Sure. And they can help you connect you with freelancers. There's quite a few other sites now, but you can get, you know, graphics made for $10, $15. And when you have a graphic suddenly, or you have a logo, it can really make you that much more polished looking. That's something that right now my publisher is helping me with because, you know, we're kind of in bed together with this book. Sure. But, you know, I think that those kinds of things can be really helpful. And delegating. Is there somebody, you know, one of my assistants is someone I knew from high school. We were cheerleaders together, you know, and she is a fantastic editor. She actually is working in a library, a library in an elementary school. And she is so helpful when it comes to writing up my recipes, helping me with grammar, not one of my strong suits, helping me post things. Taking my blog posts and actually putting them on the site, putting together my monthly or weekly email. So, you know, if there's things that you think you can outsource, start to think of that because it might be less expensive than you think. Because people that can do those kind of things remotely are often happy to do them at, you know, not a huge cost per project or per hour.
And it helps you to be consistent. I mean, I, you know, started writing and blogging about list-making and productivity back when I was a TV producer, you know, and I started my blog 10 years ago and I knew I will not I can't continue to write this blog or do social media or promote it if I don't have someone who helps me. And so very early on, I got interns who I got to help me. And then I started to hire people. And now to this day in my business, I have several people who help me with all of this, show included. Allie's behind the scenes. You can't see her, but she's the one pushing all the buttons and telling us what to do. But that's what you need. You do need people here to help you to be able to get your message out because it's not just one person. It really does take a lot of people. And you as the visionary, as the person who is the expert, expert needs to be able to see that, that like, hey, I'm good at a lot of things, but I'm not great at everything. So I need to be able to get people who are really good at this one thing to help me look better.
For sure. I think that like the best thing that you can do is to really look at yourself and say, what do I do really well? You know, what are my strong suits? And what are the things that like anyone can do or maybe isn't a strong suit of mine? And I think especially when you start to outsource in a creative field, And creative can be anything. Even if you are working more in the business world, it's still thinking about that new idea and a new way to promote yourself. But when you start to outsource, you free up space for you to come up with that new idea. And for me, I always am thinking, what do I, what's important for me to be doing? You know, like what real value do I add? And I love having an assistant now to help me prep out my food videos because me chopping that carrot and making sure we have 1 cup of sugar and putting it in a bowl. It's not, it's not the most valuable use of my time. Sure. You know, actually being on camera, coming up with the next great idea, hopefully.
But you're the only one who can do that on your team. Nobody can stand in for you. You're the only one who can do that piece of it. So it is very important to think through that.
And if I have somebody who is prepping my food, but then I can come in and do the to-camera stuff, I can get twice as many videos done. So why would I personally be prepping? Blah, blah, blah. And at the end of the day, I'm spending instead of 2 days of my time, I'm spending 1 day. And so, you know, there's probably some room in my budget to pay that person to go down to that 1 day. Yeah. So I always am thinking, what do I really need to be doing? Because there's a real value in me coming up with those ideas and truly being the host of something. And even my editing skills, that's something that I'm now looking to outsource. But I think I'm a pretty good editor, so that's something that I have been doing more of because I think I have that eye because I've been in production for so long.
Sure. That is one of the things that a lot of people like hand off last because they like doing it, they enjoy being part of it. But I will say, you know, as someone who has also edited my own stuff, I am happy to have a fabulous editor who I work with, uh, you know, I worked with for a long time at Fox News. His name is Steve Credo. If anybody wants to hire him, he's amazing. Tell him I sent you. Um, but he's so much faster than I could ever be, you know what I mean? So it's like I just, it'll be so much easier if he just does it. He knows me.
We all need to accept when we start to outsource that things are probably going to be never quite 100% to the level that you might've done it yourself. Sure. You know, so I have this video and could I have made it 10% better if I did everything myself and had complete control? Sure. Right. But is 90% an okay percentage for that video? Probably. And so I think sometimes I realize with outsourcing that I need to let go of that perfectionist part of myself and simply say, okay, could this have been, could this have been slightly better? It could have been, but it's not enough that it's actually going to make a difference in the amount of views that I get or the books that I sell.
And in the interest of getting things done, you know what I mean? Like otherwise you're going to just like be spending so much time on that one video and then you're not getting to the next one and the next one and the next one. And sometimes you just have to, As Seth Godin says, ship it, get it out the door, get going with it and get to the next thing. If anybody has any questions, I want to make sure that they ask them now so we can, while we have Nikki here live, or if you're watching the replay, you can leave them too. But please leave some questions, whether it be about, you know, your brand or, you know, how to start your own brand, how to do videos, you know, book stuff, whatever it might be. Leave those below and we'll, we'll get to those in a minute. But I want to ask you, Nikki, about your, about media. Because, uh, that is how we met. And you were promoting a book at the time, which is when a lot of people do media. And a lot of people think, oh, when I have a book, I'll do media, which I always tell them, that is too late. You should be doing it way before you ever have a book because that's the only way you're gonna get the book. Uh, so in between though, I've been watching you in between books on Instagram and keeping in touch with you through the years. You have consistently been doing a lot of media. I mean, you're, you're usually on, you know, Dr. Oz, or, you Wendy Williams, whatever it is, you're doing these shows. What have you been doing to keep that going? You know, now that you have a book, obviously you're promoting the book, but how have you done that in the in-between time?
Yeah, I mean, listen, I— because I'm promoting not only myself as a chef and a cookbook author, but as a host, you know, it's important for me to keep putting my face out there. And when you don't have something new and exciting to show people, that can be difficult. You know, like, what do I have to say? And so I think sometimes coming up with your own series on Instagram, um, you know, the Silent Recipes I did was kind of a fun thing to send people, to show people, you know, and all that following up and that networking with the shows that I already have relationships with. And so I think, you know, trying to keep in the media eye was always really important for me. For me, the one thing, you know, that I always pride myself on is not having too much of an ego. And making myself valuable to a show or a production above and beyond my skills as a host. And so, you know, The Wendy Williams Show, I have been doing now since my first book. So 7 years, 6 years, I don't know, a long time. I don't know, 5 years. I don't know, a long time. A long time. Mommy brain is yesterday. I'm not sure what day it is. So, you know, I had a relationship over there. I went there one time. They liked me. But what did I do after that moment? And, you know, I was able to get on that show because I did have a PR company at the time with my first book, which I actually do not recommend. And I got that relationship, but I was on it once. But how do I make it so that I'm on it for the next 5 years? Totally. So what I did is the first thing I did is I sent them some treats. Um, producers love stuff.
I have to say, as a producer, you don't often get things.
We don't often get things and you might think, oh, everyone's so excited to be on the Wendy Williams Show. Well, guess what? A lot of people, it's kind of part of their day and they actually might've been difficult for the show, you know, on the backend behind the house. And so I, I sent them treats. I sent them a really nice note that said, you know, thank you. This was a really big deal for me. I really appreciated it. I kept in touch. I shared little updates with them and sure enough, and I made sure to let it be known as I did for the first segment, that I am a joy to work with. Yes. So when they asked me for things, I went above and beyond. They asked me for some recipes. I didn't just write it out. I put together a document. I put the photos on the document because she was very visual. I really made sure that I made their job easier. And guess what? The next time they needed someone, or especially if somebody canceled last minute, they thought, Nikki's really easy to work with. She's always got recipes ready to go. She's local. I make sure to let everyone know I'm in town, blah, blah, blah. And so they use me again. And I especially prided myself on being available to them last minute, which is not always easy. You know, they want to do a segment on soups. It's a Friday. They want that on Monday. Wendy has a very specific soup in mind that I don't have. And that means that I'm making soup all weekend. Right. But in their world, they got exactly what they want on a short timeframe and they don't forget that. So I really have tried to make myself very valuable. For my skills beyond my hosting skills on camera. Having recipes ready to go, having that arsenal, making sure that when someone asks me for something, I already have it. Being prepared. Being prepared.
Being camera ready. Having outfits that you know look good. Knowing, you know, if you had to do your own hair and makeup, knowing how to do that. If they wanted to do something remote, you know, all of those things are really important to TV producers, to radio, you know, for, for for mainstream media because guess what? They just need to get their job done. And so they're gonna, if it's not you, it's going to be somebody else. So you want to make sure it's you every single time. Yeah.
I think it's being set up for success. Have yourself ready to go, put your ready to go-ness on Instagram. So that's what I do. So, because guess what? Someone hears about you for the first time and the first thing that they're going to do is search your name or they might go straight on Instagram. So what are you showing them? Are you showing them that like, I've got my, you know, together. Yeah. So I think that like me being easy to work with has always helped people think of me when it comes to media segments and me being continually reaching out, having updates, having personal relationships, you know, especially if there's someone that you actually connect with and you're like, I like you. Yes. Text them later, ask them a question. People are, you know, I think sometimes, especially in media, we feel like as the talent, it can feel intimidating. Oh, well, they're a producer, they're the director. And guess what? They're just real people hanging out, you know, doing their job. And so make their job easier, stay in touch with them. And yeah, I think that it can, it can definitely like continue. And now I've been doing the Wendy Williams Show for 5+ years. I must be on my 15th Dr. Oz segment. I'm doing that again on Friday. I do the Nick Cannon Show because I knew some people that I kept in touch with that are now at that new show. That's an important detail there too.
Producers don't stay at the same place. Producers move. So you want to stay friends with those producers because they will go somewhere else and they'll be like, "Hey, we have someone great." And they would— because you want to bring in your best people. Producers have a job to do and they want to do a good job. And so they want to bring in really great people that are going to make them look good too, to say, "Oh, I have a fantastic expert." I want to ask you about something that you said before about publicists. So you had a publicist for your first book. Which a lot of times people think— and, and, you know, I've worked with publicists in the past too, you know, in my career as a television producer. We get pitched a lot of things from publicists. Some of them are fantastic and some of them are not fantastic, like everything else in life. Um, a lot of times people ask, you know, should I hire a publicist if I have a book? Uh, what's the strategy there? And like, sometimes yes and sometimes no, but nothing is guaranteed in, in media. So, you know, you may not get anything. You, you know, you might not get any hits. That's just the way that the world works. It is what it is. But what is your thought on publicity?
Because I heard a very emphatic message there that I wanted to grab. The funny thing is, is that I actually had a fantastic publicist for my first book, somebody that was really food-focused. So they knew that world really well. I mean, they work with everyone big. I can't say enough good things about them as a publicist company. However, at the end of the day, the money that I spent on that publicist, I mean, I could have bought enough copies of my book to get me on the New York Times bestseller, you know, and I did want to promote myself as a brand. But the problem is that like when you're first starting out, you know, just because a publicist, you know, pushes you to the Today Show or whatever, it just doesn't mean that you're necessarily going to get on. Um, and so I just feel like that large amount of money that I spent every month on a publicist I could have done better things with. I could have literally hired somebody, maybe not in the New York City area, to work on my book 24/7 and reach out to every blog and reach out to every small radio station. And we could have worked smaller instead of going after the Today Show. We could have done tons and tons of local radio. We could have done tons and tons of, you know, blogs. Right. Um, I could have had someone, you know, for that same fee working on the book. Work full time. And so I just feel like there's so much money into PR and I don't know if you're ever going to get that return on your investment. And I think that if I had bought X amount of copies of my book for that money and simply put them out in the world, would that have fanned the fire more? Right. So I just don't think that unless you're in a better place and you're worried about maybe how to present yourself,, or you're not sure how to present yourself. I am somebody that I think is pretty good at understanding my strengths, that understands how to reach people. Um, but if you feel like that's something that you're not sure about, then it might be good to work with a publicist or maybe even a copywriter and kind of start to understand your brand and what you need. But if you already understand that, I'm not sure how much value they brought to me personally because I had already established you know, my point of view and what I was going after.
Well, and one of the things too I'll say about you, I mean, you're a hustler. Like, you get things done. You make sure that, you know, even when we did our shoot together, you were like doing everything. Everything was like perfect. It was easy to work with you, you know, obviously. Uh, um, and you were able to take those media interviews that you did, you know, the Wendy Williams Show that you did that one time, and you turned it into this multiple year-long relationship. And that is something that not a lot of people can do because they They just don't try. They literally don't try. And I think for you and for someone who does work with a publicist, then all of those relationships are the publicist's relationship. They're not the expert's relationships. And so you make it really important to make it your relationship. I mean, look at us. I mean, I didn't get pitched your book. I just know you because I've known you for years and I've been watching your journey and we've been friendly all this time. But that's sort of how it works. If you're willing to invest your time and effort like that, like you have, like I tell people to do, then you will be able to, to, you know, hack this a little bit, like do it on your own and not have to spend tons of money on publicists. But if you don't want to do that, then hire a publicist and do your, your 1 or 2 hits or whatever it is that you get, or your 5 hits, or hopefully they get you more than that, and then you're happy. That's for some people, it's like, what is the goal, right?
So yeah, that's just not something that I like, I don't need to outsource that, you know, like, at this point. So like, I don't— I'm not so big that I can't do some of my own networking and my own PR stuff. But if you're so big that you can't handle that task anymore, then outsource it. And I think that you're so right that the problem with a publicist— and if you have one, that's fine— but make sure to know who you're talking to and find a way to connect to them, even if you don't have their email. Find them on Instagram.
Totally. Or LinkedIn. Or LinkedIn. Whatever.
Or LinkedIn. Yeah. Find them on your social networks. Message them immediately so that they see you and they maybe follow you back and start to have that personal relationship past that one segment that you did. Yeah. And so, you know, even when I did my book 6 years ago, social media wasn't as big as it is now. Truly now you can find someone. So every time you you meet someone that's anywhere in your world, you find them, you DM them. And I think that, you know, people, it's amazing when you start to appeal to them on a personal level. I think with this book especially, it was such a labor of love and something that I'm so passionate about that I really let people know when I wanted to send them a book or I wanted to do a segment with them. I let them know, this is my big ask. This is it. This is the thing that I'm gonna, I haven't asked you for anything in 5 years. I might not ask you again for 5 years. I was like, this is it. Can we talk about this book? And I really tried to appeal to people on this personal level and say like, this is a really big deal for me. I would love to share it with you. And then when they did share it, I would always very genuinely, as I will say to you, thank you. Like, this is a big deal for me. And the great thing is, is that even if you don't know who to email on the Today Show or who, whatever, you've got social media, just start messaging them. I really just in the process of promoting this book, I have tried to do more networking and more connecting on social networks. And I am shocked at how many people get back to me.
Right. And how you know what, there's probably less there. You know what I'm saying? Like in their inbox, in their email, like you're getting hundreds of pitches a day and tons of stuff, but it's like, oh, if you get a message from somebody that you, that you're like, oh, their videos are really good. Look at this. And also I made that, like, you know, that meatball dish and I love it. There's something to connect to with you beyond just like, "Oh, can we promote her book in some way?" You know what I mean? And that's important to— We connected on list-making, of course, and lists and how to do to-do lists. And I know you're a list person as well, so that's always good. But I had people who, when I wrote my first book too, which was about around the same time, it was like 6 years ago, Listful Thinking.
I was going to say, I know the name of it, Listful Thinking.
Listful Thinking. Great. Blissful thinking, blissful living. But I will say I was doing a segment at Fox with an expert, Dr. Ben Michaelis, who is a fantastic psychologist. And my book was actually not out yet. And you know how sometimes Amazon will ship it early and people will get it early? That's what happened. And so I hadn't even held a real copy in my hand and he showed up for his segment that day with my book in his hand. He had researched and seen that I was an author and that I had something coming out. And he showed up, he was in the green room with my book. Book. And that is the first book I ever signed. And I was like, oh my gosh, like, you looked at me as a person. This was not just a way for you to get on TV and do a segment with me, you know. And after that, it's like we became fast friends. He was a genuinely great, great guest, and I brought him on again and again and again and have used him and have had, you know, uh, given, given him as a resource to other people as well. But that's how you do it, you know what I mean? You connect with producers as real people because that's who they are. But I will never forget that he's the first person who had my book and I signed it right there in the green room at Fox News for him.
I love it. You know, and I think that is, it's personal connections. You know, I worked in bartending for a very long time. I ran a bar in Manhattan for about 10 years. And it taught me something about relationships. And I remember when this agent that I had been pursuing for forever came into my bar and it made me realize, number one, he's just a regular person. And number two, I had this opportunity to form a personal connection with him. And then I have to take the next step and ask for what I want. You actually need to ask for things. And I have not always been that great at it. I, in general, I don't know, maybe it's my German roots. I'm kind of stubborn. I don't like to ask for a lot of help. And this book, I have had to kind of relax and say, hey, I have this book. Can I do your podcast? Can I do this with you? And actually ask for it because people don't— you think everyone knows, oh, I'm sure they want to be on my show, they want to do this. You have to ask because if you ask, now you're one of the people at the top of their list where they're like, oh, I know Nikki wants to. Totally. And don't ask me, I was talking to the Today Show and I said to them, you know, I have always wanted to be on your show. I've done a lot of food shows, but like, I've always thought of the Today Show as like this, like, food mecca. It would mean the world to me. So I presented a book work that I feel confident in and work that is up to a certain caliber. But then I made it personal and I let them know that it was a big deal to me. And guess what? That casting director on the other side of it, you know, just feels more personally connected to me. And I'm not saying you don't have to have the work to back it up, right? But just making it personal can really touch people sometimes, you know, on a deeper level.
And asking, like, making the pitch— that's such a great point because a lot of people think and assume like, oh well, they know, or they can come find me, or they see that I'm doing this thing, so they'll, they'll just ask me about it if they want it. Like, don't be passive like that. Get, get out there and ask for it, because you're right, that is the way that, that it gets done. Nikki, this has been amazingly fabulous, and I'm so excited that we got to chit-chat again, uh, and stay in touch. I will continue to be watching on Instagram, of course, and connect with you. Uh, More Veggies Please is the book, and, uh, everybody should go check it out. Grab it wherever you can get a book. Book, uh, online, in a real bookstore, wherever. And, uh, Nikki, thank you. If people want to connect with you, it's Nikki Dinky on, uh, on Instagram, which I know you were very excited to get your name exactly. I love it.
It's a little thing these days, but going from Nikki Dinky Cooking, which is just too much for people to write these days, to Nikki Dinky, um, was, was a thrilling moment in my social media career. I get it.
I felt the same way when I got my domain 'cause I had been fighting for that thing for years. So I was really glad to get it too. All right. Well, Nikki, thank you. And if you have more questions or anything is happening in the chat boxes, please leave those. We'll check those out, you know, on the replay. And I have a freebie for you too. If you go to paularizzo.com/list, you can check out my list-making starter kit. And thank you for watching. Keep those questions coming and don't forget to eat your veggies. And make some buzzworthy videos. I'll see you next time.
