Paula Rizzo Talks to Creator of List-Making App Priorigami

Well, hey there, Paula Rizzo here with Monisha Longacre, who we met just recently because of our love of productivity. And I wanted to bring her on to chat with, with me and with you guys to talk a little bit more about how to get stuff done. But first, a little background into Monisha. She has been a product, experienced product professional for over 25 years in the digital media experience. For companies like the Weather Channel. Imagine that. So we both have that background in TV, sort of, right, Monisha?

Yeah, that's absolutely right.

Thank you for, thank you for chatting with me and hanging out this morning. I want to hear a little bit more about the gap that you feel that you had to fill when it came to being more productive. What was going on with you where you felt like, yeah, I could, I could probably invent an app for that.

So first, thanks for having me. I'm really excited to join you, and I love talking about productivity and everything list-oriented, so I'm glad to be here today. So it was really interesting in the corporate world. What I noticed pretty consistently was all of my colleagues are really struggling with trying to keep up with everything. It seemed like the demands on their time from all sides were just exploding, and it wasn't just work, but it was home and school and athletics and team sports and church and community. And what fascinated me was while 80% of them had a really good way to manage their time, they were using a calendar, they were using some sort of system, nobody really had a system to manage their tasks. And I thought this was really interesting. And so I thought there might be some unique opportunity there. And so I really looked at how I was doing it myself. And I thought through for a couple week period, like, what was I doing? And I realized that I had developed a system for managing my tasks. That I figured might be able to help others if I could figure out how to package it up. Huh.

And this was how long, how long ago was that?

This was about 2 and a half years ago.

Okay. So you thought, hey, I have this great system. I mean, it's sort of the same thing that I did. It was like, hey, here's the thing that works for me. Let's see if it works for other people. So how did you start to sort of, you know, bring it to market almost?

So the first thing I did was really try to identify the problem. And what I really came to understand was that while people knew how to create lists, that was kind of— it stopped there. And they really struggled with how to manage their lists once it was created. And there were several problems. One was the problem of the multiple lists. You know, there was one on their phone and one at home and one— so when they really had to try to start prioritizing what they were doing, they struggled with where to even start. So that was an interesting thing. And everybody has their phones with them all the time. So I thought, well, if it was on your phone, That, that's a good starting point to really get to the single task list. The second thing was prioritization. It's like, once I have a list, where do I even begin? And I found that a lot of people abandon their list just because it got overwhelming.

Too much.

Yeah, too many things. It's easy to add things, but how am I actually managing them, getting them done? And so Priorigami has a feature built into it where it reminds you daily to prioritize your top 3. And the idea is only focus on those 3 tasks versus trying to, you know, manage the entire list.

Right. So were you doing that? Was that the thing that you, when you, you know, did this on paper, was that how you ran your day?

Yeah, I would look at my list and I, I'm the morning person, so I like to do it first thing in the morning. Some people prefer to do it the night before. But I literally look at the list and say, if my day was successful today, what 3 things would I need to get done? And then I would take those 3 things and schedule them into my calendar to make sure I had dedicated time to actually focus on completing those tasks.

Now, would you do that that same day or the night before? Because I love to do a night before list because I like to just wake up the next day and be like, oh, okay, this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

Yeah. And the app will— you can set the time. So if you're a night person, you can set it for, you know, 8:00 at night and it'll remind you. I like mine set for 8:00 AM. So the first thing in the morning, I kind of have a fresh start. I kind of know what is going on for the day. And then I take it from there, but it's flexible enough depending on how, what works best for you.

Okay. So, I mean, you have this great system. You're then telling people about it before you even had the app, right? This was something that you were doing all the time. Then what made you say, hey, I should make an app? Because I think a lot of people think that, and there's a lot of to-do list apps out there and there's a lot of stuff, you know, on being more productive, but what made you say, hey, you know what, I'm gonna actually do this thing?

So I think it was, I fell in love with my Fitbit. I got really, you know, attuned to using my Fitbit to measure kind of my performance. I was like, if we could do the same thing for productivity, which is what you don't see in the other apps. I mean, a lot of the apps, and you're right, there are a lot of them out there, but they're basically digital to-do lists. And what I really wanted to add onto that was how do I make it more fun and how do I motivate completion? So similar to Fitbit, it tracks your progress. We have a don't break the chain kind of concept where we want to encourage everybody to complete their 3 tasks a day, which is no different than hitting your 10,000 steps a day. And it also has a, you know, it congratulates you as you complete them.

Well, that's what I want to talk about. You had a very interesting story you told me about the accomplishment sound and the way that you came up with that. And how that was a thing that had to be there.

Yeah, so it was interesting. So I am motivated more visually. So there's a notification that says, congratulations, you completed all 3 steps today, all 3 tasks today. But as I did my research and got feedback from customers, I heard that people were motivated by different sounds. And it's interesting in this world of alerts and dings and that, I was like, oh my gosh, who wants one more sound? But I got feedback that it was a true motivator. So in the app, as you complete a sound, I had mine set to like a Zen bell sound that was very calming, like, "Oh, you're getting it done." But somebody told me they wanted applause. So there's now a clap, clapping sound. There's fireworks. There's a sound that says, "Oh yeah." It really is interesting, just kind of what makes it fun and what, you know, does see it seemed to be a motivator or just a reinforcer of success. And it was really interesting to me to hear that, you know, that can, that can definitely be a motivator for different types of people.

What do you use as your sort of system for prioritizing? People ask me this all the time, and I do find it to be sort of a hard question to answer. Obviously, you have the app and you have the top 3 things, but how do you put those top 3 things in place? Place? What are the— what's the criteria for you?

So at some point I do have this magic algorithm that I came up with and it was based on the— in the app it gives you, as you enter tasks, you have the option to enter a deadline and we will give you deadline reminders. We also have an option to enter a priority, whether it's high, medium, low. And then there's also an option of size. And so I literally would use those 3 different factors and kind of came up with a way. I never—

What was the last one? Size?

Size. Is it a small thing?

Is it—

Oh, how long, how long it'll take, or is it going to take you to do the task? Because, you know, those big tasks tend to linger on your list a lot longer than the small, easy ones. But that doesn't mean that that's the way it should be prioritized. And I do know people who will go and just, you know, knock out all the little simple, easy ones. Yeah, just to feel like you've accomplished something. And then at the end of the day, you really haven't done the big important things. So I know that's a big struggle that I wanted to help people with. I didn't end up building it because in talking to people, I realized their prioritization mechanisms were all over the place.

Yes.

I wanted to really understand and dig deeper into that before, you know, programming my way of doing things. So that is a great question. And, you know, when I'm consulting with people, I really kind of dig into kind of what's driving their business decisions and really helping them think through through that. You know, there's so many systems for prioritization too, like the Eisenhower Matrix. But at the end of the day, people really aren't putting that kind of discipline towards, okay, what's my top 3 for the day?

Right.

So it's more a process of teaching them how to think through those different elements.

Right. It's what's really important for you, what really makes, you know, makes a difference that will push forward what, what your your biggest, you know, your biggest thing is right now.

Right. The other thing that the app does, and I've gotten interesting feedback about this because nobody else does this, is at 2 o'clock it'll ask you to shuffle your priorities. And the concept here is that things change throughout the day, and it's okay to adjust or change kind of what you were going to work on because, you know, you want to adjust and don't feel like a failure. I mean, I met with this one woman who literally put all her to-dos on her calendar every day, and then when she wouldn't be able to finish them, she felt deflated.

Yeah.

And she said, well, all this other stuff came up. I said, well, you didn't really waste your day. You just have to adjust your priorities, you know?

Right.

And just making it that it's okay to say, yeah, I didn't get to this, but I did these 3 other things that were— and then really thinking through, is that really truly more important? It also helps people think through the urgent versus important. Because, you know, you start your day out with your 3 things, and then by noon you haven't done anything, by 2 you haven't, and then it gives you a chance to reset and say, wait, Am I focusing on what's urgent that's come my way, or is this truly what I need to be doing? And if it's not, then you can reset your focus.

I like that because sometimes, you know, you just need a little nudge in the middle of the day, like, hey, hey, remember the things you were supposed to be doing over here? Like, let's get back on track over there. Yeah, that's kind of nice.

So many times we just kind of get caught up in the shuffle of somebody has come into our office and asked us for something, and, you know, our natural inclination is definitely to help. But, you know, when you have time in the day to reset versus at the end of the day feeling like, oh, I didn't do the things I set out to do. So that's an interesting little feature that people have commented on as being really helpful. And it is. It's just a little alert saying time to shuffle your priorities.

Yeah, I like that. What about the idea of lingering tasks? Because that happens to a lot of people where the same thing will roll over again and again and again. And I often say you need to reevaluate that to-do. Is that something that you actually need to be doing? Or can you drop it? But what about for you? How do you handle those lingering tasks?

It's interesting. And again, I was really trying to hone in on why do lists not work for people? And over and over again, I heard that the list would get too long and be too overwhelming because again, people are adding things, but I don't think we give ourselves enough freedom to remove things from the list. So my philosophy is if it's been on your list too long, there's a couple of things going on. One is really not that important.

Right.

Two, there's a reason why you're not prioritizing it. Either it's too big or it's too overwhelming, or you don't have what you need to actually do that task. Or three, you just need to just do it or move on.

You're right. Get over it. Just do it. Be done with it.

Do it or delete it, you know? And so if the task has been on your list for over 2 weeks, Priorigami will send you an alert saying, hey, there's a lingering task on your list.

Ah, cool.

Do it or delete it.

Right.

You know, and it's okay.

Get to it.

'Cause I keep telling people that, you know, there's this fear of, oh, if I delete it, then it's gone. No, if it's important enough, it'll come back.

Yeah, it's so true.

It will come back to the forefront, and it's okay to let it go. It is so okay.

I love that permission to just— Permission. Ah, yeah.

And it does feel good, and it makes your list a lot more useful, because the last thing you want is a list that's just bogged down with stuff that you're quite honestly never gonna get to. Also, oftentimes I realize that the task is just too big and I'm like, okay, let me break it down. Let me just do the first thing of the day.

Sure, the little pieces of it, yes. What can I do today to get me closer to the end game, yeah.

Exactly, like one of the tasks on my list was renew the kids' passports. Well, it never was getting done. And I was like, why? And I'm like, because it's too big and too daunting. So I changed the task to be, you know, Download application for passports.

Ah, right.

More, okay, I can attain that. I can, I know how to do that, you know, and really breaking it down to the steps versus it, um, you know, just being so big and broad and bold that it just would never come to the forefront of being—

Oh, it's so true. So many people put write book on their to-do list, like, that's not going to happen today. Yeah, right. Thank you. Thank you so much for, for the insights. And, you know, is there, is there something else that I need to know about lingering tasks? Is there one last secret you have for us?

I'm just, just let it go. I mean, let it go. It's okay. Yeah, I know.

I know. It'll be fine. And you're right. It'll come back if it needs to. You know, you, you have not heard the last of that, of that task there. Well, awesome. Well, thank you, Monisha, so much for the insights and for introducing us to the app. And tell everybody where they can, where they can get it and how they should first start to use it?

So the app is available in the iTunes App Store and it's free currently. And it, it walks you through, it comes with the default set of tasks. So it walks you through exactly how to use the app in like 5 or 6 steps and then you're good to go. And what I found is that for my cut, the users who have the most success with it, give it 2 weeks. Give it to develop a new habit. And then once you're in, these guys are living by that to-do list.

Nice. Well, awesome. Well, thanks again. And everybody download your time, download the app and check it out and let us know what you think, because I'd love to hear what— how it's— how it's helping you prioritize and get your list done.