Productivity vs. Kids – Do You Have to Choose?

Hello, welcome to Inside Scoop. I'm Paula Rizzo, and we're talking a little bit about distractions, the little kind, the pint-sized distractions. You might have them around you right now— your kids. That's what I'm talking about. I do a lot of trainings, a lot of talks about productivity, and my books Listful Thinking and Listful Living, and your kids come up quite quite a lot because they can be a big distraction. So today we're going to dive into productivity versus kids. Do you really have to choose? And my guest is an amazing friend of mine. She's an entrepreneur, she's a marketing, uh, guru specialist, and she has 4 kids. So we're gonna get to her in just a second, uh, to dive in on some of the most, um, amazing secrets that she's found through the years of being able to work for yourself, work from home, and get stuff done. You can actually do both. She is living proof of that. And, uh, I have a little freebie for you, uh, if you are interested in upping your game when it comes to list making. I have a list making starter kit. If you go to paularizzo.com/list, you can check that out. We can stay in touch. And I also have a whole bunch of new courses for LinkedIn Learning. So if you're a LinkedIn Learning type, I have a class here. If you go to, um, actually paularizzo.com /LinkedIn. See how I did that? /LinkedIn. You can check out all of my courses from, from LinkedIn. And I have one on organizing your remote office for maximum productivity to be able to be your most productive no matter who's in the room or what's distracting you or what's going on. And throughout the show, I would love to hear from you. So please make sure that you leave us some questions, comments, thoughts in the chat box. If you're watching the replay of this, no problem. I'm going to be watching this again, so definitely leave your comments below. My guest today will also be checking out what you're saying and all of that. Please leave us your comments, questions, thoughts. Without further ado, here is the lovely Cass McCrory. She is the founder of Capra Strategy and a good, good friend of mine. Cass, welcome. You've got 4 kids. Let's just, uh, let's just start. Let's just start there.

It's a lot of people. It's a lot of people to manage and organize and to have moving in their own lives while mine is still running too. Yeah.

Yeah. So take us through the range. What are the age ranges?

My oldest is Lexi. She's 12. And then we have Brayden who's 6, Elliot who's 3, and Leora who's 2. So 12 to 2.

12 to 2. But we should add that Lexi is 12 going on like 35.

She's, uh, Lexi is put together. She has got it together. And Lexi's probably watching right now. Hi, Lexi. You are now internet famous.

Yeah, you're totally famous. You were famous before, but now you're super famous.

Yeah.

Uh, so things changed when you had Lexi, you know, uh, you know, 12 years ago. Everything changes when you have kids. But then when you have 2, when you have 3, when you have 4, the game changes. So tell me a little bit about what had to change for you when, when you had kids.

The first thing that had to change was that I had more than one priority. So before having Lexi, it was work, work, work, maybe a little bit of personal. But when I had Lex, everything needed a shift because I had a reason to be more productive in the work time because I wanted to get to a point where Lexi was the priority and the work was on the sidelines more than it was in the starting position. And so everything needed to shift. And then as Braydon was on, and Braydon's watching too. Hi Braydon. Braydon is watching too. Yeah, that makes my heart happy. Um, when Braydon came along, it was like, okay, now I have even more reason to be more focused and more productive in the work that I'm doing. And as we went to a third child, adding Elliot to the picture, it's no longer man-on-man offense. You know, in basketball, that's what you play. This is no zone. You've got to manage multiple people at a time doing their life, and you want to show up for that, and you still want to be ambitious and productive and, and, and, and. Like, you do want to have your own version of it all. Managing that, both your own expectations, their needs, and your day became just the most important thing that I could do.

It's about focus, it sounds like, because you're really being intentional and focused on what it is that matters most and what you want to get out of your day, what you want to make sure that your kids get out of your day. I was listening to one of your podcasts. I forgot to mention you're also a podcaster. You have a fabulous podcast called The Real Women in Business. I've been a guest, so check out our episode together. But one of the things that you talk about too is your husband and the fact that you know his love language and you know that it's quality time and you schedule in quality time in your day because you get that that matters. Talk to me about intention because this is something that people, I don't think, realize they have control over in their life?

I mean, that's the most important first step, is to say, how do I want this to go? 'Cause we have a lot of choices. We can let it feel, and we can choose for it to feel chaotic and stressful and busy, or we can say, I'm going to show up in this experience with the intention of being full of flow. I'm gonna be calm as a cucumber. I'm going to roll with what comes for me here. And the intention really changes the energy that you bring to the situation. So if your energy is one of, you know, high stress, you are going to bring more and more stress into that intention and into the setting, whether that's at work or at home with the kids.

Yeah, and not to get too woo-woo, but don't they say like attracts like?

It does.

I know.

It does. And when you come in and your intention is to give people your presence and perspective and kindness, then you're going to be much more likely to do that when your intention is, I didn't get enough done, or I have so much to do. It's a really different feeling.

It puts you in a totally different mindset. So the number one thing, first off, is the mindset switch, right? We have to kind of turn that on. Uh, managing expectations is what Sam says. Sam is my amazing, wonderful producer for all of my LinkedIn Learning courses, by the way. So you will see a little bit of, of Sam in all of the, all the courses that I do. Uh, so I'm glad that here. Someone else is saying, uh, it's not easy with kids with live schooling, homeschooling, and doing business and household chores. Now everything is happening in the same, in the same bucket, right? In the same place. We're all in the same place at all the time. So what do you say to that, right? Uh, you know, parents are juggling so many things at once.

We need to not juggle. And that means that you have time where this is going to be school time, and then outside of the school time, it can't be about school. And, you know, we can say, we can, we can claim that we always need to be juggling a lot of different things. But the truth is, unless you went to clown school, we're probably not all that equipped. I am a terrible juggler. You know, I have, I have experiences where it's like a snow day happens or something goes on and the day needs to just radically shift. Accepting that radical shift and saying, all right, how am I going to lean into this? How am I going to set a new intention? Because what I thought was going to happen isn't going to happen. And so now what's the best next step? How can we take what is and make it the best version that it can be? Because it, it can't be do all of the things all at once.

Right, right.

It doesn't work.

And part of it though too is going with the flow, which I myself have been trying to do for many years. As much as, you know, I love my lists, I love my productivity, I love to set my intention for the day and really try and have it go that way. Doesn't always happen. And I have to say, I've learned so much from you through the years. I don't have kids, but the things that you talk about and how you structure your day and how you create intention with all that you do has helped me so much to go with the flow. Uh, there was a, um, I don't know if it was a an episode that you did on your podcast or something you did way before, but talking about going with the flow. No, you were a guest on someone else's podcast.

Yes.

You talked about going with the flow and looking at your to-do list and saying, what feels good right now? Which to me was like, what is she talking about? No, I want to do the things I'm supposed to be doing in the order I'm supposed to be doing them in. So tell me about this, this free-flowing idea.

So I put a lot of faith and trust in my ability because I know I can get a lot done. I put a lot of faith and trust in my kids going along with the flow as long as my mood and my energy is in the right space. And so frequently I'll say, okay, here are the 6 things that I need to have done today. What feels good? What am I going to go into next that's going to help me advance? What is going to move the bar forward? What feels good? And a lot of times it's fun first, which is kind of counterintuitive. We think, okay, if I can just get these 6 things done, then I can have fun. But the truth is, especially when we have kids, when we give the fun first, when we say, you know what, we're going to start the day outside and we're going to go sledding, then you have much more room to get your 3 things done when they're having hot cocoa and doing some art or doing some online school or reading or watching a TV show. When we have the fun first, when we give ourselves what we need, we are much more nourished to do what we have to do.

I love that. Fun first. So we start with fun.

Yes.

And then from there, we move to the doing, the actual doing. What is it that you find that works best when it comes to task management, getting stuff done? Because I know you're very much like a— work in blocks and things like that. So talk to me a little bit about, about that.

So part of it is looking at what you have to do and deciding what gets my best energy when, and knowing, okay, if I want to be writing, the best time for me to write is in the morning. I'm going to be freshest, I'm going to do this. So knowing that first and then saying, okay, I've got an hour, this is what I can accomplish in that hour, and being really real about that. Sometimes we have unnamed, unrealistic expectations of what can happen. We're really bad at estimating how much time something is going to take.

Oh, 100%. Everyone gets it wrong. I mean, you know me, I think in seconds. I'm like, how many seconds is this going to take me? Because it matters. I mean, that's the TV producer in me, but I love that you also use that idea as well.

Yeah. And the other thing is that I track. I make sure that I've got a list so that when I have the moment, I know what to do next. Because if it's something that I'm like, oh gosh, I know that there's this lingering thought, I have to do something, but I don't remember what it is, that is just misspent energy.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And, you know, I think a lot of times we, we're very hard on ourselves, women especially, at the end of the day, looking at that list and saying, oh, look at what a failure I am, I didn't do all of these things. But the truth is, you didn't set yourself up for success to begin with, right? And, you know, what you're talking about, what I talk about in my books, is your productivity style. Are you leaning into how you work best? Are you knowing that, "Hey, if I'm able to go do this thing with my kid first and I feel really excited and happy about it, then I can do all these other things," or whatever, whatever works for you. Lean into that versus we all kind of work in the way that we think we should, what should happen. We have someone who just says LinkedIn loser— LinkedIn user, and it says, "Oh my God, I've had several breakdowns," which it comes with the territory, does it not?

It does. And here's the thing, like, the breakdown can be a breakthrough. So take that moment of this isn't working as an indicator that change is possible and needed in this situation. And look for, you know, this is something that my coach that I worked with long ago, Jen Rassiopi, once said, look for the 2% improvement. We're not looking for, you know, I need to change this in every single possible way.

No.

Look for the 2% improvement because typically we can make that move from breakdown to breakthrough with 2%. It's a silly amount. And what ends up happening is much more than 2% improvement.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But it's those tiny little pieces. Yes. And I think that's the key here is that people need to just embrace the fact that you can change just one little bit, one little thing, one day, a week to start and see how does it change. And track it and go from there. It doesn't have to be like your entire life has to change and everything. You know, you've been doing this for quite a long time. You've been able to, uh, you know, really find the system that works for you. Same for me, but it takes trial and error, you know. Um, progress over perfection, Priscilla says, which I love. That's exactly it. That's exactly it. Um, we have a question here from Sapna who, um, you know, with work from home going on, I'm not able to concentrate as compared to working in an office. And so she has some low productivity days and it's really a challenge. Okay, let's talk about distractions because kids are distractions. There's a lot of distractions going on. It could be construction now or this or that, but there could be a kid running into your office or whatever.

What do you got for us there? So setting healthy containers, boundaries around what you need to do the work that's going to lead to the most fulfillment for you personally and check the box of what you need to do professionally. So first, set the container. Like, I need 2 hours, and if 2 hours needs to happen, then doing whatever needs to be done so that you can claim that container to do the work that you have to do. Like, we all have responsibilities and we're going to show up for them. So first, setting a container. Second, setting the expectation on both sides of the table. So with the kids, Hey, mom needs to do this. It's going to take me a couple of hours. What can I do for you so that you feel good about giving me this time to work? Like, how can I set you up for this?

So it's a communication piece. It's over-communicating in a way. Hey, I need this time. I'm going to be doing this. What are you going to be doing during this time so that we're not in the same room at the same time?

Exactly. And you know, you might say, well, my kids are too little. I don't know that it is as much for them as it is for you.

Interesting.

So while you're talking to your kids and you're helping them set the expectation, this is really way more for your benefit than it is for theirs. Uh-huh.

Uh-huh.

And then it's saying, okay, now that I have the window, I'm gonna actually do the work. So I'm not going to be on my phone. I'm not going to be distracted by Instagram or social media of another nature. I'm actually gonna use the time that I have effectively. Yep. And as you do get an interruption, to acknowledge it. My husband has this thing that he does with our kids, and this is all him. I have nothing to do with how awesome this is, but he has, right? This is Brayden and Leora. George has this thing that he does with our kids that when they come up to see him while he's working, also working from home, you know, he'll open the door for them, they take a selfie, and then they're on their way. Most of the time when the kids come in and are interrupting, it's because they want to be seen. They want to see you. And by George's habit and process of taking a selfie with them, not only does he have like a really awesome selfie roll right now on his phone of our kids growing up over the last, you know, 5 years, it's— there's this connection and the kids feel like, oh well, I got my selfie, so now it's time for me to go on and move on. Because most of the time They don't need anything and you know that. Yeah. You know that. And that's why it feels frustrating. So creating purpose to it.

And giving them, giving them something that they have accomplished. And that is what Deb Lee is talking about here. She's saying the ta-da accomplished list can remind you of all the things that you have done that you forget on a hectic day. The same thing goes for your kid. They want to check the box that they were seen, that they got to hug their mom or they got to say hello and then off they go to go do something else. Absolutely. Right? That's such a good way to look at it. Let's talk a little bit about your Unplanner because this is a good way of looking at how to create some structure while also setting intentions but going with the flow. It's a lot of things to pull together, but you seem to have been able to do it through the years. So tell us a little bit about that. And everyone can go get the Unplanner if you go to kasmccrory.com/unplanner. Unplanner.

So it all came about because I love planning, but none of the planners out on the market were hitting the mark exactly the way that I wanted it to. And I was not about to create another planner that feel like not a worthy use of my effort. But I knew that I needed to create some structure. And so I use a Five Star Notebook because it suffers no fools with the coffee spills. Bitches inevitable with my kids and everything else going on. And what I do is I plan out the week really simply. It's like, this is what has to be done. These are the meetings. My husband and I will have a conversation about that. We'll identify, all right, do we need to get some outside help for this week? What needs to happen? We navigate it with transparency, which is really helpful. Got a running list of things that need to happen. And I allow there to be some flow in there. And then on a daily basis, I'm looking at what am I grateful for? I found that in my year-end review of 2020, the gratitude list reflecting on what was on my gratitude list day to day was probably the most impactful thing.

Huh. That's great. And most people say they want to do a gratitude list or say, oh yeah, I should do that. Or, you know, so talk us through a little bit of how you set this, time aside, I know it doesn't take that much time, but you're very specific about what you write on the gratitude list, which I think is really helpful because people sometimes say like, "Oh, I don't know what to put." But tell us how you do it.

I always look at the gratitude list and I say, "Okay, what are my values?" Knowing what I value and how can I show that I'm grateful for the things that I value the most. So I'll get really specific about why I was grateful for something. So if it is a cup of coffee, it is that the cup of coffee is held at the perfect temperature because I'm drinking it out of an Ember mug that Paula Rizzo recommended to me. And I'm getting into the minutia of it, right? Because it's in the details that something becomes more tangible and real, both in review and moving forward. So I really look at how can I integrate my senses? How can I look at how this impacted my values? Bringing in gratitude in that. And a lot of times there's coffee on the list because normally I'm drinking a cup of coffee while writing the list, and that's totally cool. Yeah, yeah. Like, duplicates are allowed.

The Ember mug is my favorite, and I got Cass addicted to it. We can't help ourselves. This is not sponsored, but it should be. They should, they should definitely sponsor all of our tea and coffee drinking. Absolutely right. But it's the best because it keeps your, your coffee or tea exactly at the right temperature for hours. So you don't— for hours. So you don't have to get up and, you know, put it in the microwave again. I, I think it's a productivity tool. So, you know, I would agree, right?

I would agree that yes, I'm no longer reheating a cup of coffee 6 times. It's—

it makes a big difference. It's a little bit of a shift of, you know, uh, it's pretty awesome. I'm gonna check to see— I think we have a couple of questions here. Uh, coffee for the win, Deb is saying. Yes, Deb totally gets it. But, you know, talking about gratitude too is to be able to I think pick things that, like, mangoes are in season, or, you know, something that's very like, I feel good about that, but it's not so like— it doesn't have to be such an over-the-top life-changing thing. It just trains you to start finding the good in, in everything that you do. Um, and Sam is saying, this reminds me of Eckhart Tolle's The Power of Now, to stay in the moment and attend to those beautiful details that come with it. It takes practice though. So, you know, a lot of times I'll tell people, you know, to— before you jump in, before you get distracted, uh, I keep a distraction placeholder on my list where I write down what I was in the middle of so that— because it takes you 23 minutes to reset when you come back from a distraction. I don't want to be so distracted, so I have something there to bring me back. But the, the pausing That second before you get distracted, that's a very difficult thing to be able to do and to develop. It takes time. How are you able to do that? Because I know you're like that too. You're sort of like, "Let me finish this thing and then I'm going to get into that thing." So how do you do that?

I have a place to put it. So having a place to put that to-do, that thing, the distracting thing that's calling you to do next, I know where it goes. It's going to go on my to-do list. It might go I'll work on the back to the front of my notebook of ideas because I've got a running list of ideas. I come up with great ideas while I'm doing other things, and those great ideas could take me on a wild goose chase. And just saying, okay, I'm going to put a pin in this. It's going to go on the list so it doesn't get forgotten. But now I can be refocused on the thing at hand. Mm-hmm.

Well, Bill really likes this. He says putting more focus on it's It's the little things, which is so true. It doesn't have to be such a big thing. Yeah, it really doesn't. It's not, you know, it's all right if, uh, just the one big thing you did for the day is XYZ. Let's talk a little bit about, um, the things that you don't plan for, right? So the things that do pop up. And people ask me a lot about prioritizing and how do you prioritize when your kid gets sick, or, you know, you're in the middle of doing all of these other things and like, that is your priority, right? You have to take care of this human being. But how do you reconcile that all in mind while you're juggling and doing 100 other things for your business or your work?

First, recognizing my own humanity and our collective humanity. This is going to happen. This is part of the deal. And everybody knows this. Everybody was once a child. Everybody has had a sick day. And feeling like the weight of the world is on my shoulders is a lie. That it's actually really not. I have a lot of support and I have a lot of opportunity to ask for help, to claim the help that I need, and to be really clear. You know what? I thought I was going to be able to do this, but being honest with somebody and saying, I thought I was going to be able to deliver this thing that we talked about today, but given what's happened in my household in the last 48 hours, it's not possible. Can we look at how to give you what you need when you need it, right? And/or work on this, you know, boundary and expectation setting. It, it is clarity that brings ease. Ah, it is, it is the clarity of that. Mm-hmm.

Sam has a question. She says, if something needs to be done tomorrow and you have to choose between a late night or an early morning, which one do you choose and why? I know what you're going to say.

I'm always going to choose an early morning because I'm a morning person. I am a morning person. And so I'm going to lean into where I am naturally most productive. That might be 3:30 in the morning because when I wake up at 3:30 in the morning because somebody just woke me up, it's going to be really hard for me to fall back asleep. That's totally cool. I can do it at 3:30 in the morning. If you were a night owl, doing it at night is going to feel better. So just accepting kind of who you are, because so much of productivity is trying to fit within somebody else's definition of it and somebody else's box. It doesn't work.

No, you need to lean into you. You need to do— I remember you told me, you're a total night owl. I don't know what you're talking about, but because I was like, sometimes I like to do things in the morning and you're like, no, you don't. Night owl, 100%, and you're totally right. So I would answer that completely differently, uh, Sam. I would do it the night before so that when I wake up in the morning, I don't have it on my mind. Because for me, it's like, I'd rather set up my day the night before. I make my list the night before. I set everything that I need to do for the next day so that when I come in the next day, it's there already versus having to come in and then create it. For me, that makes me anxious. And that, I think, is from my background as a TV producer. We like to, you know, set the next day and get it sort of set before we came in. So, you know, it's just what works best for you. Debly is saying always morning, but night owls can also get stuff done. That's very diplomatic, very, very diplomatic. And we have someone, LinkedIn, LinkedIn person saying, I think COVID has become a great equalizer for working from home with kids. Many of us are in the same boat, so we're more sympathetic to our coworkers. That's probably true, don't you think?

I think it is. I think now, you know, we have visibility into the people that we work with's lives.

Yes, right.

And there's so much point of connection there. There's so much place where we can say, oh, I didn't realize that you, like me, have, you know, a 12-year-old, or, you know, yes, trying to help with foreign language when you don't speak that foreign language is really hard, right? There's so many points of connection there that we can have that we, we never did before.

It's so true. And, and get right— and, and, you know, I do think there's the place for understanding, uh, and knowing, you know, that people might have something happen, you know, something might run into that, someone might run into their background, something might happen. Uh, I, I think now in the almost year into this whole work from home thing that people are getting a little less forgiving in video. I just want to say, you know, like, to be able to say it's not as cute anymore when something is not, uh, handled beforehand. In the beginning, I think it was sort of like, oh, it is fun, we're seeing everybody's life. And, you know, the TV producer in me was always cringing because we go to such great lengths to make sure that nothing goes wrong when you're doing a live show, when you're doing something, you know, that my perspective is totally skewed from everyone else's. But I think everyone is sort of catching up to that now where they want to be professional. They want to be able to, uh, you know, look as polished as good. This is, this is part of your brand now, what, what you have in your background, all of it.

That's very true. I think, you know, there was, there was some training ground that we covered in much of 2020. And now we're saying, if this is what we're going to do from this point forward, if we want there to be real change in how we work, where we work, fluidity in that, and make it a matter of choice, then we have to show up with a level of professionalism wherever we are. And so knowing what that looks like and setting the expectation and being responsive, like not every you know, conference call that you have, not every video conference that you have requires you to be, you know, in video mode.

Totally.

But certainly some of them do, and being ready, willing, and able to do that is hugely important in being ambitious and keep moving forward in your career.

Yes, exactly, exactly. And you know, Sam is saying too, it's been nice that people are much more gracious with kid-related interruptions and adjustments. It's true, everybody sort of gets it. You're home. It's not like you're home from the day because your, your kid is sick You're home for the day because the world is home. It is an equalizer in a lot of the ways there. Cass, I want to ask you too about, before we wrap, but you create not only an audit at the end of the year of what you want to get out of the next year, what happened this year, all of that, but every month, and I don't know if you still do this, but when you create that board where you draw and— Okay. Tell us about the board because you're an amazing artist and you put your artwork to to task every month. And I love seeing it on social media. So if you follow Cass on social media, you'll see what I'm talking about. But walk us through that because I think that's a really good exercise for people to start.

So calling it art is a stretch. Let's be really honest, right? This is a chalkboard that appears in our family room and we do it seasonally. And so I'll update it. You know, I updated it in January. I'll update it again when we get to the spring and we identify everybody in the household Paula Rizzo participates in putting some things on the list. What do we want to do? Do we want to, you know, blow bubbles when it's freezing outside and see the bubbles freeze? Do we want to go sledding? Do we want to go tubing? What's on the list?

Right.

And then I put them all out there and it's just a nice reminder that we have adventure and fun in store for us in this season, no matter what it looks like, no matter the fact that it's COVID, like we are still having fun and adventure. There's fun and adventure to reflect on and the things that we've done on the board and there's fun and adventure to look forward to that we didn't do yet or that we just didn't get to this year. Like the fact that there were a couple of things on our Christmas board that we didn't get to just builds anticipation for next year.

Right, right. I love that because there's, there's, you know, such a, such ownership over that. In a way it's a list, right? And ownership over this list. To be able to have every member of your family. And you can do this no matter the size of your family. You just happen to have 4 kids, so there's more people who are weighing in on that. But it doesn't matter, you know, to be able to say, hey, I, I hear what you're saying, you're part of this world and this life, and we're gonna make it work as best as we possibly can, and everyone gets a say. I just, I love it. And it does set that intention for the season or for the day or for whatever it is. But also looking back and, and looking back to say, what did I do? What have I done? And in your business, you do this to be able to look and say, what did I do this past year? What felt good? And it's something that I tell people to do a lot too. I started doing it when I first started working for myself to be able to say, where am I at? Where would I like to be? How am I going to get there? And you set aside some time in December, end of the year to do that?

Yeah. Yeah. I set aside an hour because for me, it is a container thing. If I set this, this is going to happen in 3 days, which is, oh my gosh, 3 days in a hotel alone working on this sounds so dreamy. But the truth is like it's going to fit the container that you give it. So if it's an hour, you can get it done in an hour. And that's what I gave it this year where I really just reviewed, okay, what were the high-level things that I did? Where did it feel really good? What do I not want to keep doing? So that means that I need to say no to some things moving forward because I'm not going to repeat hard times? Like I can learn from them. And then, you know, what hit the gratitude list over and over and over again? And then how can I be intentional about deriving more of that stuff that I was really grateful for in the next year? That's the biggest piece.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it just, it's really looking and seeing and knowing yourself and leaning into that. And it takes time. And that's, you know, what I want people to be able to get away from this. This is not something that you came up with overnight. It's not like, oh, you know, You work at this. This is something that you choose to do. All of us can choose to do this.

And what works today might not work tomorrow. Like, that is parenting at its finest, right? Like, what's working right now, it may not work tomorrow. This selfie could be a huge fail tomorrow, right? They might be like, this is bonus. I don't want to do this anymore.

We're over that. This doesn't, this doesn't satisfy us in the way it used to.

Uh, and that's the place with kids. But having the agility and the intention to be like, no matter what, we're going to figure this out. Yeah.

Yeah. I love that. Well, Cass, this is awesome. We could talk all day, every day. I love having you here. Thank you for all your tips and tricks and all the above. Of course. And if you go to cassmccorry.com/unplanner, you can check out her Unplanner, which, you know what? It's a little— unplanning is good. You're hearing this from the list-making person who loves loves lists. So if you go to paularizzo.com/list, you can check out some of my list-making starter kits because, you know, lists are a good thing. And I hope that you enjoy this. If you have other questions, if you're watching the replay, leave them below. Cass and I are going to continue to be here and share this and answer your questions. And, you know, check out some of my LinkedIn Learning courses. If you go to paularizzo.com/linkedin, they're all listed there. And that's it from, from here. So thanks for watching and I'll see you next time.