What Publishers and the Media Want to See in Your Potential

Let's see how it goes.

Here we are, we're live.

Hey everyone, thanks for joining. This is actually my very first, um, homegrown LinkedIn Live. So Paula has been putting up with a total newbie here, as you know if you've looked her up, and I hope you have. Paula is the consummate media professional, so she came from the broadcasting and producing world, and now she is training authors and entrepreneurs and experts to do exactly what she was looking for, right? On the other side of things, like she was the one making the decisions on what talent, what the hook was that she would be interested in working with. So she's now, you know, decades into this career and has had the perspective from both sides. I'm bringing her with me today in our very first LinkedIn Live. Hoping that all of you will support me in this new effort. As you know, I'm an author who's trying to go on this journey to building a platform just like you and share our best practices and things that I've learned along the way. But hoping you've looked her up, I'm bringing her here to talk about really what the media looks for, which in Get Signed— I know you all know this book— um, I, I say that what agents are looking for is what publishers are looking for, it's what the media is looking for. And all of us have this vested interest in the reader, right, or the recipient, the listener. So that's why I brought Paula, because there's, there's a lot of, um, there's so much synergy— for a word, to use a word I don't particularly love— uh, there's so much synergy between what the media looks for and what publishers look for. And it really does begin with having that hook or that elevator pitch, presenting your concept in the right way. And I think that Paula has a whole education to bring into that. And then of course, I will in this conversation lend the publishing perspective. So we're just gonna— we are good friends at this point, um, and we're just sort of going to riff and let the conversation flow organically. If anyone does care to ask a question, I'm going to attempt to find that and reveal it to the crowd and answer it. So, um, so yeah, so let's, uh, let's, let's get going. Um, I am wondering where we should even, where we should even start. I mean, the, the big question I think people are here for is how do I break through to the media? And so Paula, before you even discuss what you do in your process, what it's like to work with you, the kinds of people you love working with and make rain for. What can authors or aspiring authors do on their own to begin to attract attention from the media?

Start way before you think you should. That is it. So even before you have the book proposal, even before you have the book, start before. Start right then. Start seeing, how can I maybe get some media? I mean, that's what I did. I was a TV producer for, you know, close to 20 years. And my first book, Listful Thinking, came out while I was a producer. And at the time, I first started a blog. Listproducer.com was my blog. It was my side hustle. It was my fun thing because I love lists and I wanted to write about them. And I thought, you know what? This is not real unless the media thinks it's real. And so I'm going to start pitching myself as an expert in list-making. I mean, you can make yourself an expert in anything. So I said, I'm going to make myself an expert in list-making and I'm going to start pitching media. And that was— I just blindly did that, but it ended up working so well because then publishers were more interested. Then, you know, agents were more interested. It's like, oh, this is a person who can do this, right? This is something that really is interested in how you can elevate what you're talking about and get it out there in a bigger way, not just in your blog or in your book or whatever, but really bring it out to the world. So you have to start beforehand. And also now we're in a day and age where, look at us, we're going live right now. Like, that blows my mind still, you know. This used to be something that was— you could only do this in a TV studio, and it can only be, you know, the best of conditions and all that, you know. You can be your own producer anywhere in the world now.

Yeah, that's— I love— I don't know if it's showing in the chat to everyone, but I'm just selecting quotes and highlights from what you're saying.

So, oh, that's in our private chat. You're gonna put it in.

Okay, it's in our private chat. So I just want to repeat and highlight This is not real until the media thinks it's real. So I've got to go to comments and do that, Paula?

Yes, exactly.

Yeah. Post comments, LinkedIn. Okay. That might be an issue.

Let me see if it'll let me do it.

Yeah. That's okay. Great. Hopefully we'll figure that out. So I guess I neglected that important piece of your background, which is similar to mine. You were the doctor who became the patient. You were the expert who became the author. And, you know, and that is a sort of chicken and egg. Do you become the expert first? Do you become the author first? I think where we both agree is it's especially in today's market, you become the expert first.

Yeah.

And that idea that I identify as proof of concept in Get Signed is as true today and for you as it is, has been for a long time. So meaning the media has to think it's real. In order to show that proof of concept to a publisher. Uh, other authors of mine refer to this as, um, third-party, uh, POV, if that's, if that's the actual label. They'll— I'm sure one of them's watching it and be like, the third-party effect.

Okay, yeah, I get that.

Party effect is another way of saying it. Yeah, it's social proof. It's like these people who are credentialed, the media, the authors in your network, believe that this is worth talking about.

Definitely. And you know, you can see, look, let's say there's two people, both love lists, both love talking about lists, both have blogs about lists, but one has done a whole bunch of media. And it's like, you know what? That person knows how to take their message out there, knows how to attract attention. It seems like a more serious person in that, in that world. Right. And so that's sort of how it, how the optics of this goes.

Sure. I want to say, so yesterday I was giving a talk with one of our star authors. I wish I had her book to clap. Yes, fiction series Black Girls Must Die Exhausted. We were giving a talk for Harper North America's employee resources group with the publisher and with this star author Jane Allen. And, you know, I was saying that, and Amy, the, the publisher, was agreeing that the author is at least half of the equation. Yeah, when you are considering publishing a new author, it's not just because this book is great, it's why people should care. And are they currently in conversation with the wider world? Is there proof of concept that thousands of people are going to flock to their book in bookstores or on Amazon? So I think that that is— that's sort of where this begins. So you've answered, you know, kind of the first question of the why. What are some, or some advice in terms of starting early, but beyond that, like from a much more practical tactical perspective, are you writing a press release? You writing your pitch letter and going out and contacting producers cold? Are you like, what's, what's the first thing you do with your pen and paper or your keyboard?

Well, first you observe, you see what are they already doing stories about? Right. What type of media are you looking to get? Is it TV? Is it, you know, now there's podcasts. There's so many new avenues out there, new media. Media, uh, as a radio, um, you know, magazines. Okay, you're not going to pitch something that they never do. It's always going to be a no. So you want to make sure that it's something aligned with what they've already done, with what their audience cares about. So this is very much like when you put a book proposal together, or when you put a book together. Who is the audience? Who would buy the book? It's the same thing. Who would watch the segment? Who would read the article? You want to be very clear about that audience. So you have to do your homework first. You don't want to misfire when you send that pitch.

Yes, that's exactly— it's so funny how this— it's mirroring each other, the publishing process and the media process, right? Because going back, for those people who didn't see the beginning, agents think like publishers, publishers think like the media. Everyone thinks about the end recipient, right? So you have to start with the end, like, how is this book— and whether you're a novel or a business book— how is this going to land in conversation? So that aspect of market research becomes really key. And I think, um, you know, one of the questions I'm so often asked are like, what are the errors? What are the traps for first-time authors? The number one is you can't just be a creative in your ivory tower crafting your poetry, your, your beautiful Great American Novel. You've got to be reading in your category. And it is always surprising to me, the people I take on who say I'm going to be the next James Clear, they haven't read James Clear or totally, or his contemporaries. So it's like, if you're not reading in your space, you can't tell me this has to be a book.

It's the same thing in media. People say, oh, I want to be on the Oprah Show, and I'm like, the Oprah Show ended how many years ago? So first off, there's that, right? Second off, or they say, I want to be on the Today Show, I want to be on that, right? Right. Do a segment like this? No. You know, so you really have to be very, very clear on why you want to do things and if they even would have you.

Yeah, and start— so start with those media outlets that you consume, that you watch, and that you read, and that you are— because most of us, let's be honest, are writing for ourselves in a sense. Yeah. Uh, so this, this is another sort of common trap or kind of like quick reason that an agent might disqualify you from being considered, or a publisher might disqualify submission. I am a I'm a midlife sort of like mom, and I wanna write a book for the next generation, Zillennial, like Zillennials who are entering the workforce. So an agent would ask, well, how are you reaching those people currently? And that's sort of a shock to the system for many writers because admirably, they have a message they wanna get out to younger generations, but they're not in conversation with younger generations. They wanna write a YA novel, but they're not speaking in the vernacular of young adolescents.

Think about, think about your— I mean, she's, she was your client, uh, Ann Shoket. Yes. Right. The Big Life. She was living the big life with the millennial crowd, right? It was millennials, right? Was her—

I'm so happy you mentioned her because we were just celebrating a big 8-year anniversary. I'm, I'm, um, Ann's speaking agent and we— she's a true crusader in the sense of that word. Uh, and she really forged a speaking career from out of her book career, which of course is something I hope will also we get to talk about Paula Rizzo. Yeah. But, but what she did to sort of, to prove that she could reenter the market as this expert for millennial women was invited them to her table for what she called the Big Life Dinners. And she said, what question can I solve? What problem can I solve for you? And she hosted them with rosé and with pizza. So she made it sort of her own branded thing, created that as a little focus group. Took it very seriously as research and was able to create a patchwork in her book, you know, create the evidence for what they want, what they wanted solved.

You know what they— right, you need to talk to people who would read the book. I mean, I did something similar on a much lower scale, but I did, uh, it was Lists and Libations. I would do every, every month I would host a list, list-making get-together at a different bar in New York City. This was like even before I came out. Listen, Libations, I would put it on, I don't even know what it was like meetup.com or something. And when I tell you the first event was like unbelievable success, there were like 35 people there. I still talk to many of those people. They helped me to craft like things that I didn't see that I was like, oh, I thought everybody thought that was easy, or I didn't realize people had problems with that or whatever it was. So I was able to really see where people had productivity, uh, you know, issues, and then I could make sure to talk about them in the book. It was, it was a brilliant idea. A friend of mine who, you know, was a book publicist. She was the one who told me, why don't you do like some like fun thing to talk to people who are interested in productivity and lists?

That's, that's incredible. I mean, again, pay attention to everything Paula has done. She's not only been selling this book, Listful Thinking, successfully for now over a decade.

Yes.

But she has a massive following on LinkedIn. She's a LinkedIn educator. She's got a thriving business of of authors who have now become very successful because they are able to engage the media. So Paula is the living proof of what she's preaching. I, so I really suggest like following what, what she does. And, um, I, I think that's, that's really valuable advice. On the publishing side, I talk about all the time the importance of road testing.

Yeah.

So before you are going out to query agents or publishers Have you tested that this actually resonates with your target market? So this is sort of step 2. Like, first, are you living in the conversation? Are you reading the books? Are you consuming the media outlets? Do you actually speak the speak of your target audience and know if you're writing nonfiction, what are the problems that you can solve for them? What do they uniquely look to you for? Step 2 is you have to be going out and doing that, right? Like, you've gotta live it, you know, going out exactly and collecting their feedback and letting them tell you what's interesting, what's not interesting.

Yeah.

So, so for Get Signed, I created this reader beta reader survey. It was a Google form, and the idea behind that being I didn't want people to have the pressure of writing me flowery notes of praise. Gosh, Lucinda, this is just like Hemingway. You know, I wanted them to point me right to the weaknesses that I was going to correct. And now I have been encouraging writers to do this. And it's like a big aha for people that it's not enough that your grandmother thinks that this is a wonderful story.

Yeah.

If you're trying to reach this target reader, who is that person? You know, you know, as a, as a fiction author now, to Paula Rizzo, someone who's experimenting with fiction, that you've got to live in your characters and have a very clear picture. Of what they eat for breakfast, what they never do, you know, are they very clear?

Yeah. And live in that world, you know. And the same thing, it's like, look, I've been promoting the same book for 10 years, over 10 years. It's not just that book though, it's me. Like, that book is me. I had lists and lists, you know, all, all of those things. That's just me. That's how I live my life. I'm doing these things anyway. So you have to find something that you are very closely aligned with. And in the same way with fiction too, it's like, are you going to care about this story in 5 years? Do you care about it in 10 years? Because the book is yours forever.

Yes, the book is yours forever. And you can keep bringing it back to the news and the media, and you can keep repurposing and updating and refreshing the content as you do, Paula Rizzo. Let's talk about some other strategies for authors and particularly like the ways that you work with them.

Sure.

So someone comes to you saying, I want to be a thought leader, I want to be an expert in my space, I'm building a business, uh, I ultimately want a book, I'm about to go out and query agents with my proposal. What do you start doing with them?

Yeah, I mean, many people come to me when they already sort of have the idea of what, you know, what they're an expert in, and they're already sharing and doing some things but want to do more video and want to do more media and eventually want to have the book, you know. So I do work with a lot of authors who are getting ready for the book launch or getting ready to, you know, get their proposals out there or whatever it is, and they're trying to build their platforms. So I very much say, okay, like, let's, let's be our own producer here. You know, what content are you sharing already, right? And how can we think of that content as video? So, and I use myself as a guinea pig all the time, right? So I recently just did a— I do a lot of segments with PIX11 News in New York, and so I pitched them, um, how— what was the segment? It was, uh, what is your list-making personality? And I had little animals for all the different kinds of, uh, you know, personality types that you could possibly have, and everybody had to diagnose themselves, and it was very fun. That was a blog post that I wrote probably 9 years ago that I went back to, and I was like, what is some good stuff that I had, that I had done before? And then I said, you know what, I can make this into a TV segment. Let me pitch it, let me see if it works. And it worked. So it's like, you have such great stuff that you can mine and create. And you've already done, you know, a lot of times it's what is, what are the questions you're answering the most? What are the things that people are coming to you for? Yes, those are great videos. Take each one of those questions and just answer them on camera. And at first it may just be something that you do just for yourself to get comfortable on camera because people, you know, are not always so comfortable. And that's fine, just do the videos for you. And then eventually you can start sharing them and sharing them and sharing them. If you watch anybody's first videos, none of them are good. So you just want to make, you know, it's fine. We're all, we're all a work in progress.

Gosh, you make me think of so many things I want to say. Um, one is that video is becoming, for those who are just interested in like cutting-edge things happening in publishing, and Lucinda Literary, my company, is kind of at the forefront of disruption, right? We're never doing things the same old way. One thing that we've been experimenting with in our proposals is more video.

Mm-hmm.

One thing we are now experimenting with in queries is show us a video of you talking about the book. Wow. Because there may be something in your query letter that is missing, but there may be something in your presentation, and especially for entrepreneurs and, uh, you know, business book authors, self-help authors, that they can present really well on camera. And the world is increasingly interested in that. So our agents are using video clips or audio clips of their authors, podcast clips, all through the proposal to sort of give, um, a, a presentation to the publisher.

I love it. That's amazing. I mean, you know, years ago I had said I wanted people to pitch TV news on camera as well, you know, and people really doing that. But you would make sure to pitch a clip of you doing an interview, right? You have to make sure if you're going to pitch for television you're able to do that. But this is it, because we speak much differently than we write, which makes it difficult for authors a lot of the time. That I work with because they're used to having the work just speak for itself. We'll just read the book. No, no, you have to tell the story of the book. And so it's not natural always because you're used to writing and you write differently than you speak. So for me, you know, as a television producer, I write the way I speak because that's how I've been taught as a journalist to write for television. That's what you do. So it's very natural, but that's not typically how most writers write. Writers write for people to read it. It's different. And so you do have to make that switch, uh, you know, and that's why I've created Media Ready Author, which is a course that I have, why, you know, I work with people, uh, more closely so that you can practice. It's not easy to do. Everyone thinks, oh, I'll be fine, I'll get out there and I'll just go and see. And then they're like, wait a minute, I didn't know what I was saying and I didn't get my point across. It takes practice, it takes time.

It takes practice. And the only way to practice is to get out and do it. So yeah, at our company we say like the learning's in the doing, and I completely advocate that for authors. Funny about editors, uh, my own editor, when I first turned in draft and I felt like I was a patient lying on the table waiting for my diagnosis, she said, you know, this just doesn't sound like you. And I'm like, well, I wrote the book. Lisa, I'm sorry, that's not exactly how you said it. You're a very diplomatic person. But it was, this isn't capturing your voice. So just like crazy things like grammar, you know, I'm channeling my inner English teacher, my mother, who's a grammarian and editor. No, I mean, removing punctuation, removing semicolons, um, breaking things into shorter paragraphs, into shorter sentences, really writing like you speak is so important. The fact that you've captured that and maybe can help clients capture, Paula, and certainly identify like that concise statement that they can make in a video, it's really great practice for the elevator pitch you're going to have to make to an agent and to a publisher.

Definitely. It's all about thinking in headlines. You know, what is the one bullet point that I will take away if I have nothing? I have 5 seconds to get it out, this is what I'll say. If I have 10 seconds, this is what I'll say. So the way I teach it, I call it the accordion method. So you have a short, a medium, and a long answer to any question that you could be asked. So if somebody says, you know, why did you write a book about Lis? Well, Lis changed my life. Ah, interesting. Okay, well, what else? They ask a follow-up question, and then you can keep going. You have a longer answer prepared and ready. If you're on a podcast, you give the longer answer because you have 20 minutes, or you have, you whatever it is to be able to, to do. But if you have 5 seconds, you should know what your answers will be. So I've shared in the chat also, um, I have the 10 questions every author needs to answer in the media. If you go to paularizzo.com/10q, you can download it there. But this is just from, from myself, from being a producer, from knowing, okay, these are the questions they will likely ask you. And if they don't ask you these questions, it doesn't matter. It almost doesn't matter what the questions are. You should be prepared with your answers because you know where you want this to go, which I think is a lot of times what people don't realize that you have a lot more control in the conversation than you think you do. You know, they'll say like, oh, well, they didn't ask good questions. And I'll say, you didn't have good answers. You have to make sure that your answers are spot on. It doesn't matter what they ask.

That is— wow. So there's so much there. First of all, I love this idea of the accordion effect or the accordion method.

Yes. Wow.

That's really good. But you're right. You know, authors might say, well, they only focus on the first 2 chapters and Chapter 8 is where it gets really interesting. I'm like, that's on you to redirect.

Totally. Yes.

In Chapter 8, you know, and the point about preparing in advance and controlling, I will say you and I are yin yang. You're the list maker, you're the preparer. I'm the winger. I'm like, let's set up a LinkedIn Live and go live in 5 minutes.

I know. And I was like, you know, you can just go live on LinkedIn. And you're like, what do you mean? And I've already thought through 25 other steps.

But the point is, you know, you have to know your personality type and what feels best for you. But I would say a combination of both when going before the media or agents, publisher interviews, because again, these are sort of all of a piece, is really to be prepared to improvise a little bit. Um, I'm noticing actually, just to pay you a compliment as we're talking, you really have very concise answers to things, and then there is a pause and there is a a conversation. So one of the things I see authors do so much that's really a mistake— and now we're talking about the authors who have agents who are getting into meetings with publishers— is like the over-talking, over-talking, over-talking, not enough pause. And did that answer the question? Reading of the facial movements, allowing someone else to speak is such— it's such a skill that many people just get nervous and monopolize. So there's gotta be— and they keep going, they keep going. Back to the video for a second, and then I do want to answer some of these questions I see in the chat because I don't know if you've seen them yet.

Yes.

Are you seeing them too?

I see them, yeah.

So this is, again, I'm giving people a lot. Usually I'm talking about the querying process and getting an agent. Today I'm, I'm focusing more on what happens after you get signed, like what are some of the things that we are facing in publishing today, um, because the media piece is really when that starts to pick up anyway. So with this video idea Just last night I'm talking to an author and he's like, how do I get in front of my sales team and my foreign rights director to talk to them about the book? Otherwise, all they are relying on is this manuscript that they've received. And guess what? They're inundated with manuscripts and proposals. So how can I express, you know, my passion for this and how I would articulate it to the world? And I'm like, create a video. Totally. Now there is a publisher, it's my publisher Hay House, that already does this. They ask authors to present a small informal video speaking to their book, but the rest of publishing isn't onto this. Yeah. And it's just still sort of amazing how it's operating in silos. And again, the power that video clip can provide, which someone like you knows how to make a killer video.

And that, you know, it's funny because I've had clients who've said, help, can you help me do the video for the sales team? You know? And so we've worked on it together because it's the same, you know, has to be short, it has to be succinct, it has to be to the point so that they get excited. And the thing about video that's, I think, so wonderful is that you can show your personality. You can't, I mean, yes, you can show, you should be able to show your personality on, on the page too, but that doesn't always come through. They want to know who you are and fall in love with you. It almost doesn't matter. What the book is about. It's like, I love that person. That person has such great energy. I'll buy anything that they have to sell.

I know that's what you want. You're making me feel like I have to uplevel my energy. You were, you know, that's something you're told to for media. You've got to like really be on. But you're so right. I heard, I read some research that like within a minute of speaking, do people think you have the authority and the trust, right? And the energy. And so it's almost like anything you say after that, if you're doing a keynote, is important, but not as important as that first impression you make, not as important as that headline in your query that we were talking about.

Definitely. You only have a few seconds to hook people and to get them excited about what you're excited about and show them that you're the one, you know, there's— I didn't invent lists, you know, I, I'm just talk about them more than everybody else. So it's like you just, you need somebody who, who is excited about certain things. Uh, somebody's asking in the chat the 10 questions.

Yeah.

So yeah, if you go to paularizzo.com/10q you'll see that. For some reason, the LinkedIn comments are not coming through even though I put it up there. But you can put it also on the screen, Lucinda. That's a way to do that too. Yes, there's a way to do— I don't know what they call it here— over fonts or something like that. You might be able to write it, but it's paularizzo.com/10q. And then mediareadyauthor.com is the course for media training if you're so interested. In that. Um, but you just want people to fall in love with you, so do a video, then they can see you. And the idea of keeping your energy up— like, you know me, this is how I am in real life, like I'm very, you know, animated, and this is what it is— but you do need to bring extra energy for camera because it does get pulled out a bit, right? So you want to be able to make sure you fill the room with the sound of your voice No matter where you are, that will keep your energy levels up. And you always have to bring your own energy because you don't know, maybe the person who's interviewing you is low energy. You know, maybe the person is having a bad day and it doesn't matter. You want to talk about your book today and you're really excited and you have something to share. So you have to bring your A-game. You have to be excited about it.

Yeah. I just tried my little banner, but I will—

Oh yes, good luck. You made it work.

And now I have to get back to the chat. I think I saw a question in there. Um, uh, private chat. I see private comments. Okay, I saw a question going back to—

I want enough video, enough media. You can click it and then it'll show on the screen if you want.

I can click—

click on her, on her, on her question.

And oh yes, yes. Okay, so, so Kelly— oh nice. Oh, that's lovely. Yeah. So how much is enough media? I hear so many different numbers in terms of how many followers you should have, podcast appearance, speaking sizes, et cetera. So Kelly, such a great question about platform. Uh, in the courses we teach, particularly in our Book Accelerators course, which Paula is a guest in, uh, we're offering it again in the fall. And we talk about how public, how platform is really a composite. You know, I talk about this a little bit in my book, Get Signed, as well. Where it's not about a threshold number that you have to meet. Because the first thing is, who are you? What's the genre? These are factors that are important. Novelists, for instance, do not have to have all the social media and the media that an expert, someone who has had the lived experience, but not necessarily the traditional credentials of a PhD or an MD or whatever they're writing in, a CEO, they might not need to, they might not be applicable, right? The social media numbers. So what publishers and agents are really looking for is visibility. Like, if we go to— because remember, 50% of that equation or more is the author themselves, which was different a decade ago. It was like, this is a great book, it's going to get reviews, it's going to be in bookstores. Sad reality of publishing is all of that lives online now.

Yeah.

So, so we need to be able to Google you and see your visibility and see that you have presence. And yes, it's optimal, especially if you're writing in nonfiction, Kelly, of a certain kind, to see that you have social media of some kind, that you have a following of some kind. Then podcasts and speaking, you know, those are, those are things that you may be able to tell us that may not be evident when we search you, right? So we may see that you have a podcast, but we don't know that it receives thousands and thousands of downloads. Or we may see that you're a keynote speaker, but we don't know that you speak 30 times a year to audiences of hundreds of executives. So there's a lot in query letter that you can tell us that Google can't.

Same as an interview.

The specificity is so key in editorial and in presentation, right?

And you probably think like, oh, well, people will know, they know what keynote speaker means. No, no, spell it out.

Yeah, to say I'm a speaker, it just doesn't, it doesn't mean who you are speaking for. A question I will ask in meetings with new authors is when you speak What is the number one question you're asked? If the author isn't answering that in their book proposal, that's a problem. That's disconnected, right?

That's so good. That's such a good place to, like, to start and to also come back to as, like, a keystone every time.

Yeah, I'm gonna answer— I need to be mindful of everyone's time, and particularly, uh, Paula Rizzo's. So I'm going to answer at least the other question that we have here in the chat. And then, and this may be one for you or maybe one for me. And then I think we are going to have to say goodbye and hope that this recorded and we'll move on. Yeah, we can do that.

So if you have a question, leave it in now because there is a bit of a delay. That's what I've also found, Lucinda. So, you know, when you do this more often, if you say leave your questions below and you see no questions, it's because there's a delay. So leave your questions below. We will look at it in a minute.

Okay, amazing. So Diane asked the question. I like that, Paula. "I have one book and hope to elevate it for the rest of my life." This is when Paula Rizzo was speaking about how you have to be prepared to talk about your book for a lifetime. Is it a turnoff for agents when your intention is for one massive project? I mean, as the agent here, I can say that it is opposite to a turnoff. It is, we want to hear this. Like, it is the best news we can hear. If there is such a passion for you, such a vibrancy, such a need for this particular subject that you are writing in, that you're willing to promote it and talk about it for the rest of your life, Great, because publishers are more interested in what sells on the long tail, what, what backlist, rather than that sort of flash-in-the-pan New York Times bestseller. Just another myth that I often bust for writers is, you know, they think that it's all about becoming a huge name bestseller. It's not. So much of this happens over time, and publishers are really happy with those investments they make that actually earn out 5 to 10 years later.

Yeah, and you can, you can have that happen much later too. Like, people put I know all my authors do too. They put so much effort and time into the launch, which is very important, but this book will have a long life and you don't know what might happen. It's like the idea of calling it your first book. We talked about this in the accelerator program. So I always, even when I first started, I would always call Listful Thinking my first book. Did I have a second book in mind?

No.

Did I know that I was going to write a second book? No. I just knew eventually, yes, I would have something that would come out, but I started calling it my first book. And, and for you too, so, you know, as Diane is saying, you know, is it a turn-off if you're saying you have one massive project? That massive project could grow and grow and grow and become other things and, and offshoot and a calendar and this and that. You know, you just don't know.

I love that. And please, again, if I could highlight in LinkedIn what that was, my first book. And, and to that I add, will be, right? Not this, I hope. Yeah, will be. You put a title, you plant a title in an agent's mind. And I do this in our query letters to publishers. If you have a really really good title. You could say that several times to make this real in our minds. It's just like small psychological hacks, right? So I love that, um, that Paula said that. I would add the asterisk to what you said about it could be a calendar, it could be a podcast. Even if you know that in your head, this could be a series, this could have a workbook— that's not something as a first-time author that I recommend using your very limited real estate of a query letter to include. Because that, that is a hopeful. That is a let a publisher decide once this has just sold like gangbusters, then maybe there are offshoots. So you really want to stick to the facts. You are writing a first book that will be, but we don't yet know if it's going to be a series. So that's, that's different for fiction. If it's intended as a series, then you should say so, and you should give a little sense of why this needs to be a series. Recently, I coached with a memoir writer who said, "This is 3 different books. This is 3 different memoirs." He said, "Yes." I said, "How many lives have you lived?" Right? It's tough.

Yeah.

It's tough to make that claim. And usually that becomes an issue of scope. How much can you jam-pack in that first book to make sure that it just completely blows up? And then you write your ticket for the other things you want to do, right?

Yeah. And it's similar— it's funny that you, you mentioned about saying, oh, it could be this, it could be that. You don't want to put all that in your non-fiction query. You know, the same thing with your pitch to the media. You don't want to say, oh, I could do this and I could be a regular contributor and I could— let's do one. Let's do one. Let's have you on one time, see how it goes. And then after that, then they'll love you, then they'll ask you back, then you'll say, okay, I could talk about these 5 other What do you think of that? So you have to go in with one thing very pointedly, you know, very niche. And then from there you can, you can expand.

It becomes a cover. The best thing with a query or media pitch, get in conversation. From there it's limitless. That is the win that you are after.

Definitely. I always say that. Start the conversation. Like, it's— you might not get a yes right away, but at least that conversation starts and, and you, you go from there. Yeah.

Wonderful. Well, thank you so much. I hope this all worked. Uh, thank you for those who are watching today. Paula, thank you. It was especially. I hope that lots of people go to paularizzo.com and check out her freebies and her newsletter, her book, and all of the resources she offers to authors, which is just very unique and needed. So thank you, Paula. I appreciate it.

Thank you. Of course, I'll chat with you anytime, anywhere.

Bye.

See ya. Thanks.