Artist Jordan Dawson: Career & Designing for TOP Footballers in the Industry

Welcome back to another episode of The Graduate Guide. Today I'm joined by Jordan. John, welcome.

Thank you, thank you very much.

If you could just start off by giving a quick explanation about your career and what it is exactly that you do, because it's not your traditional career path.

I am an artist who customises products. I started off with customising footwear, trainers specifically. That then took me on to other products including football boots, which is what I do now, it's my main job. But I've also customized basketballs, I've customized bags, wallets, caps, cars, electric bikes. So yeah, just a range, anything you can think of that you can paint, I've pretty much customized. I work for brands such as Nike, Adidas, and Puma. I've worked with the biggest athletes in the world, Marcus Rashford, Usain Bolt, Anthony Joshua. I could probably just name drop. Yeah, that's what I'm doing at the moment.

Yeah, and when was it that you first realised that this career that you've found yourself in sort of had legs? What was that like, moment where you're like, oh wow, okay, I can actually do something with it?

It wasn't— well, I've drawn since I was a kid. So I knew I had this skill, but not necessarily in customisation. So I used to draw caricatures when I was younger. I then went into pencil portraits, studying through GCSE, A-level, and then into university. The moment I thought it would be a career, I worked retail at Nike for just under 2 years in the Oxford Street store, and everyone knew I was an artist there and I was I was getting bored, like retail's a drag. I think it's one of the hardest jobs out there. And it got to the point where I was like, okay, I don't want to be selling shoes, I want to be designing shoes. So I made a small portfolio, took it to HR, made a meeting with them, was kind of expecting them to say, you know, we'll keep you in mind if anything comes up. And they had an Air Force One campaign. So for 6 months, I was customising Air Forces for general public. You come in, buy a brand new pair. We had paints, we had a bitmap gun, which is like a spray paint. We had engravers, we had stitchers. And that's when I stopped part-time at retail. I was like, okay, I'm gonna start a new business and start personalising trainers.

Yeah, I think, you know, working in retail, I think a lot of people can almost become part of that, like, system where every day is kind of the same and you don't really see how you're going to change that situation. And obviously you kind of took one big leap with building up this portfolio and sending it to all these massive brands. And where did that, that confidence come from? Was it more just like a real desire to change your situation, or was it like, okay, you know, I know I'm on something here, let's try it out?

I would say I'm not an overly confident person. I think a lot of my friends will tell you that when we go out to socials and people ask what I do and I just say I'm an artist, and then they come back and they're like, he's not just an artist, he does this, this, and this. I wouldn't say I'm overly confident. I think when you are in retail and it becomes such a drag, as you say, it comes so repetitive and it's just like your day-to-day, you wake up and you're like, I can't be bothered to go in. There's a part of you where you're like, I'm wasting my skill here. Like, I, again, I don't say this very often, but I know I'm talented. Um, it's one of my flaws that I don't really big myself up in that way, but there's a reason why I've worked with the biggest brands in the world, and I think I just need to remind myself of that. Um, I think you just have to take that leap of faith. I know it's such a cliché thing to say, but you only live once. I think I would regret it if I didn't. I actually worked with someone who, at Nike, who was a musician and came in every day singing Brighter Day, Wansday, and then he left to pursue his career. I think that was a moment where I thought, you know what, like, he's done it. You know, I've got the comfortability of I'm not paying for much, my expenses aren't much, you know, I'm still living at home. Rent was paid for, you know, I could take that leap of faith. And I think, yeah, I think when he did it, I was like, you know what, I reckon I can do the same. Just took the step, you know, and thankfully it paid off. And if it didn't, I'd probably— well, I don't know if I'd still be there now, but I think I would have gone back. I think you just have to, you know, take risks and show what you're capable of.

Yeah, what, you know, saying you're not an inherently confident person, obviously what you've gone on to do since that moment is constantly pushing you out of your comfort zone, whether it's the person you're speaking to, whether it's, you know, the brand you're working for. You've had to become very comfortable with that feeling of not being confident. So are there any like practical advice that you might give to someone, you know, a younger Jordan?

Jordan. I'd say be yourself. And I know that in today's society is quite difficult to do because you're judged very quickly. To be more confident, it just comes with practice, you know, like I am definitely more, I'm 100% more confident now. I believe in my own ability. I know what I'm capable of. Such a difficult question to say what advice to be confident, because it is, is a very hard skill to learn, but I think it just comes with practice.

But I think it's, it's interesting because obviously having, um, sort of social confidence is maybe different to having confidence in your business, you know, uh, do whatever, art, design, or, you know, uh, send that email out. It's all different types of confidence.

Yeah.

And I think similarly, if you apply that to the world of art and generally the creative industry, like, I think to actually realize that you're an artistic person is quite a hard thing in the first place. I think with you, you were like maybe traditionally, um, you know, artistic, like at school you drew loads, everything like that.

You say that, but I think Again, in— I'm not going to judge it, but I think in today's society, in the curriculum that we have, schools aren't forcing people to be designers or creatives. It's more, you know, geography, English, science, whatever. Um, and I've been back to my old school a few times to do talks, and it is quite— I wouldn't say upsetting is the word, but it's quite frustrating. To know that there's creatives as young as— I'm talking like Year 8s, Year 9s— that don't even know that fashion is part of art. You know, they're taught to draw on shells or, you know, watercolours for different patterns, you know, but they're not taught what jobs are out there in the creative industry. And I got bullied. I got bullied at secondary school for being creative. Not harshly, but people are like, oh, you're doing dos subjects, you know. Yeah, you do it. I took Art, Photography, and Media because as much as I want to do the other ones, that's exactly what I wanted to do. I was a creative person, and my defense was everything's built by a designer, you know, from the chairs we sit on, you know, to the glasses we drink out, the cars we drive. It's been done by a designer. Without that creative industry, we wouldn't have a world to live in. So I think it's very difficult to be a creative in this world because I think we're undervalued.

Yeah, and I think a lot of success in that industry, given the manic-depressive nature of it, is almost a product of your environment. You know, I think school, for almost anything career, is— you do get shot down about having any belief or confidence in yourself very quickly. Like, in the UK education system. So I think, you know, when you go to university, like, a massive skill almost is finding people that you resonate with and, you know, putting yourself out there to be received by people that also have the same beliefs as you. And you want to create the same culture around, uh, yeah, whether it's doing art or going into entrepreneurship, whatever. And I know, you know, we have a relationship before this, this interview, and we've spoken about like the difficulties you know, maybe living with the wrong people, or yeah, just being in the wrong environment has had a limit in you. So now that you kind of work for yourself, um, it's your company, you organize your days, what do you try and do to make sure that like week by week you're, you're in the right environment, you're surrounding yourself with the positive energy to let your creativity in?

Just rewinding slightly before I get to that, I think it's important that when I left secondary school and I did my foundation course, as you say, being in the right environment, being surrounded by— everyone was an artist there. It was such a breath of fresh air that I remember the first day my teacher walked in and he went, 'The studio's yours,' or, 'The room's yours.' There was like loads of different materials out there. 'Do what you please, I'll come back in 3 hours.' And everyone just looked around and be like, That's not what we were taught at school. You know, you were given a piece of paper or told what to do, and then you just did it. And that was like— everyone's like, whoa. And I remember like for the first half an hour, people were just like chit-chatting, getting to know each other. And then I remember someone just started drawing on the wall, and I was like, can you do that?

Yeah.

And then people started ripping the wallpaper, and he was like, well, the room's ours, so we can do what we want. And we just tore the whole place down and you know, put fur on the wall and started doing it. When he came back, he was like, wow. He was like, did not expect that, but bravo. Yeah, you know, and like he said the room was ours and we made use of the studio, you know. We didn't— I say we tore down the wallpaper, but like we put up stuff, you know, we put artwork up and whatnot.

Is that one of the best responses you can get as an artist? Yeah, especially like with footballers. They'll say, you know, do something for me. Yeah, I'll leave it to you, you're the expert. And then they come back like, wow, I wasn't expecting that.

Yeah, I think the first reaction is probably the best part because you put all that time in. And then I try not to show them the final piece once I've designed it, just because that first reaction is the best bit. When you see their face light up, best feeling. You cannot beat it. Even without the footballers, I'm talking just— A video comes to mind. Sorry, I know I've gone off your last question, but we'll come back to it. But there's a video that stands out to me. After all the work that I've done with celebrities and footballers and whatnot, there's one video that stands out of— I think he must have been about 10 years old, and his dad's messaged me on Instagram saying he's a massive Blackburn Rovers fan, can I get a customization done? I was like, of course. And that one of the biggest questions I get asked, or the most frequent questions, is do you— because of my Instagram and, you know, I show celebs and I show footballers, loads of DMs come, do you customize for the general public? I will customize for anyone, but I think yes, the reaction of the video probably would have been a great video to upload, but it just doesn't catch anyone's eyes. But this video he sent me, so I did the customization for this kid and his dad sent me the video. He said, I've never seen him like this before, and he opened the box, he picked up the boots, he kissed it, and it had like Blackburn Rovers over it, had like the logo and everything. And then the dad goes, look at the, the tag that's on the lace. He flipped it around and he went, Jordan Dawson! Jordan Dawson! And this is at like the start of my career, so like it was a massive shock to me. And he went, Jordan Dawson did these boots for me! For a 10-year-old to know who I was at the start of my career that feeling was like unbelievable, like really unbelievable. So, um, that is—

there is something about, um, you know, when you're a kid, I remember designing my first Nike ID. I mean, they're awful in the classroom. Yeah, I would never wear them again. Um, but like that feeling of— I don't know, I think maybe that's why you got the best reaction as a kid. You're so— you're not impressed. There's no impressions from of like living life. You're just like purely looking at it as a piece of art and appreciate it for that. Um, and I think you're right, like it's always really hard in general in work to give yourself that gratification or help you define success, but reactions like that, like pure emotional ones, like in any industry, is something that we all crave.

For sure. Um, and I think that's why I love customization because You know, you can get excited when you go into a shop and you buy something new. You're always going to have that excitement. I like shopping, but when you have something personal to you, you have that personal touch on it, it means a whole much, like, so much more to you. Um, so that's why I get the best reactions, you know, because it's something, you know, it's— again, with the footballers, they get shipped boots all the time, but to have something personalized to them, you know, with their flags or their family's name or just something that they know that they're with them on the pitch as well, you know, so it means a lot to them.

So yeah, and just going back to that, you know, products and environment. Yes, questions. Yeah, I mean, obviously you mentioned about entering the creative space more seriously post-school and how much that helps you. Yeah, you know, and then even like the inspiration you took from that one person when you're at your job, like clearly like these whether it's the environment or the people, it's, you know, you take a lot of inspiration as an artist, like, so how are you trying to like resemble that like on a day-to-day, you know, this can be applicable to any founder or entrepreneur trying to give themselves the right environment, lifestyle and environment.

Yeah, um, it's very difficult, I have to say, because working for yourself as a founder, it's very lonely. Um, so whether I'm in the studio, whether I'm on set, whether I'm at home, it is very difficult to— because it— my day-to-day, that I don't have a 9-to-5, I don't have a day-to-day, it's all different. Which is, again, there's pros and cons to everything, but that's why I love my job, because I'm doing something different every single day. When I was in retail, as you said, it was clockwork. Doing exactly the same stuff over and over again, you're like, this is tiring. Every day I'm doing something new, whether it's working on boots, whether it's customising basketballs, handbags, you know, I'm doing work with jewellers at the moment, you know, I'm literally— cars, I'm doing something completely different. Going into clothing, clothing design, you know, each day is completely different. But surrounding yourself in a different environment, I mean, I'm moving time to time, like every single day, you know. As I said, I could be on set, but I'll see those people once, won't see them again.

Yeah.

Um, so to surround myself in, in the perfect environment is very difficult for me.

Yeah.

Um, but I think when my brain is that busy, yeah, I'm not really thinking about that. I'm always in a creative flow.

But that's what I was wondering. Um, I actually recently been reading a book called Deep Work by Cal Newport.

Deep Work?

Yeah. Okay. Um, and it's the concept that, uh, with social media and all the distractions in life, like, we've given away as a society the ability to just really focus in on something and produce like an academic research or paper or anything, or draw a beautiful piece of art. Like, is it just so inherent within you when it comes to just doing any— anything artistic, you're just locked in, like, phone away? No distractions.

Um, if I could get rid of social media, I would.

Yeah.

Um, I just need it for my work. But yeah, I go into a different world, bro. Like, music's on either out loud or in my— on my headphones. I go into a completely different world and I just zone out and I'm just— I don't see my work as a job.

Yeah.

You know, I enjoy it that much. I'm like singing along, like I'm bouncing around the room, I'm painting, paint's going everywhere, you know.

The actual process of a player coming to you, for example, and being like, I want you to be— how does it go from the person?

Yeah, it changes depending on— like, I say it changes, it's different per client. Um, I'll have X players say, I know exactly what I want, I've seen your work, I know exactly what I want. And I'm like, cool, I'll create a mock-up on Photoshop make sure they're happy with it, because they wear different boots.

Yeah.

So I've got to make sure that the surface I'm working on is fine for the design, so I've got to move it around. I'll then send it back to them, they're like, cool, they'll send the boots to me, obviously fix out payment and everything. And then as soon as payment's made, I'll put them in for my next slot, tell them roughly how long it's going to take. Sometimes it's shorter, sometimes it's longer, but I give them a rough period. Um, and as I said, I don't send them the final design, and I, I ask them, I'm like, do you mind if I don't share with you? Because I want to get your natural reaction. So once they see it, yeah, and then I go deliver it to them, obviously they'll be like, this is cool. They've already seen it. And yes, they've seen the mock-up, but it's different seeing on a mock-up than on the actual boot that they're going to be wearing. Um, but yeah, I'll either— depends if they're in a different country or not— sometimes I've flown out to meet them. Um, but yeah, usually I'll, I'll take it to them.

But are you, um, yeah, obviously when you're saying you're locked in, you're not really doing research maybe on them, or like, you know, trying to, you know, you'll know their nationality, you'll know the football player because they're that famous where they've been in your life, you've always been watching them.

Yeah.

And those personal touches, I guess, comes with another—

I do, I do a bit of research. So recently I was just speaking to Raphinha Barcelona. So he was in London for a couple of days when they played England, and I messaged him on Instagram, and he had a couple collaboration posts with, um, his wife. And like, you don't really want to intrude, but like, if it's on socials, it's on socials. Like, people can see it, you know. Um, so I went through her Instagram and then saw that they had a kid, like a little baby, and I was like, cool, do you think— sometimes they don't post their names just for— and, uh, went down a little bit and I found his name, and then I attached that onto the, uh, what's it called? He was like, I love them. Yeah, you know, and it's just, as I said, that personal touch that they love it. Yeah, especially with family. Family means a lot, as it does to everyone, but like, especially with footballers, whenever I ask about the design, they're always like, family, always.

Yeah, I wonder if you there's, you know, like, I know you're not a creator in terms of like, you know, like a YouTuber or necessarily an influencer or whatever, but they're like process of maybe scaling their process and their business is like they found themselves with bigger media teams and they can't— no one can do exactly what they are as a personality, so they can't— it's not like you're scaling a brand, they're just improving their own personal one, right? Um, and I wonder where you feel like you lie in this, because you're talking about personalization and how much that means. Like, they're asking for your work, they're not asking for one of your team members' work or whatever. How do you sort of see the progression of your career? And like, what do you think, um, yeah, right now you're looking to sort of improve on?

What I want to do?

Yeah, it's like in terms of building out your, your, your team or whatever, like I imagine you don't want to like have a load of designers, you want to stay as an artist that's just supported by— sure, a better videographer maybe, or whatever it is.

So I've got, I've got a team, um, of videographers and photographers that help me film my content because at the start I was doing it by myself and I was like, you know what, I'm not making the most of these opportunities, you know. I'm going to footballers' houses, I'm going to the training ground, I'm going to the stadiums these need to be captured properly. So I've got, I've got a good couple of guys that do it for me. They do a smashing job. In terms of actually doing the work, I've been asked, would you have a team doing it with you? Yes, it'd be great, but I think I get the satisfaction of the completion doing it myself. You're also relying on others to do a job that not saying that this is the case, but if they don't do it up to par, that's on me.

Yeah.

So obviously I'd have to, you know, you do your checks and whatnot, but I think it comes with the artwork that I don't want anyone else doing it because then it becomes less of me. You know, when I give them the boots, 100% has gone into it from me and not from anyone else, and that's part of it.

Yeah, I think that's kind of like artists at its core. It's like a traditionalist outlook, which I think is refreshing, and people appreciate it. Yeah, and, um, you know, on the other side of things, like you said that you're open to any kind of work. Like, is that—

couple occasions, no, but yeah, yeah, of course.

But, um, yeah, like, is, is there a this football, football players and, you know, the athletes, that angle's doing really well. But are there any other forms of like fashion or any, anything that you see yourself as a creator, as a designer, sort of moving into?

I want my own clothing line, which is in the works at the moment. Exclusive.

Exclusive.

Um, I think clothing is a massive part of me. I've always been into my fashion. And I don't think I'd ever stop doing the work that I'm doing now. But yeah, as you say, like, just to elevate myself, my personal brands, you know, um, creating my own shoe has been a massive thing for me. Um, I've always had that as a career aim since I started personalization, you know. I've, I've had a massive love for shoes. I've collected them since I was like 7 or 8. Some will say I've got too many now, but that's for another discussion.

You still got the ones from your 7 and 8?

No, no, they're definitely, they're definitely gone. But I've been a size 9 for 20-odd years now, so I'm kind of like, yeah. So once you've got your size, you're kind of like, cool, now I can start my collection. So, um, yeah, I think creating my own shoe is a massive, uh, I'd say that's probably the top for me.

Yeah, and this, this is like a dream that's been sort of ever-present, and there may have been times when you were younger, like, you know, when you're getting bullied for being creative at school, whatever, where you think all these are just like becoming less and less possible. From what you've learned over the years and the more confident in yourself and your ability, like, and given that this is a podcast for students Somebody might be thinking, I really want to, you know, resemble a career like yours, maybe not exactly like it, but in the creative industry, but they're like lacking that inspiration, that confidence, you know. How would you like reassure a person like that and maybe give them, install a little bit of belief in that this is a viable career path? You don't have to just go get a job in consulting or banking.

I think set yourself targets. Realistic ones, but also, you know, I like to aim high, you know. And I think if you don't aim high, you're just going to settle. So I always think big, and then I'm like, okay, that's not possible, but I can do this. So I think setting targets— I remember sitting down with my mate at uni, um, we're talking when I was, what, 17 years old, and I set myself a target of 3 things to do in my career. Not in the next 5 years, I just said in my career. And again, at that point I didn't know whether art— I was studying fine art university, so I lived with 3 graphic designers. They knew exactly what they were going to go into, you know, graphic design gets you a job, you know. But with fine art, it's such a broad subject, you're kind of like, okay, I finished uni and I was like, what am I doing with this, you know? So I set myself a target. One was working with Anthony Joshua The second was working for Chelsea, like working with Chelsea Football Club, um, and then the third was working for Eminem. First two I've already done. Yeah. And I did AJ within, I think it was my second year, um, and I remember my mate from uni, we hadn't— once we left uni, we hadn't spoken for a bit. I remember he was one of the first people to message me. He was like, bro, you've just worked with Anthony Joshua. And again, going back on the confidence thing, I never sit back and reflect on what I've done. So when he said that, he was like, bro, you've done Anthony Joshua, like you've ticked off one of the big ones of your— because I, I saw AJ fight, um, obviously he came into the limelight when he won gold at the Olympics. I've been a massive fan of his, and, and the fact that he'd messaged me like my friends to be like, "Oh, you've worked with Anthony Joshua." Then in my third year, I did work with Chelsea Football Club, who I support. And again, like, being in the stadium completely empty, you know, doing work with them was unbelievable. And my third one's obviously working with Eminem, who I can relate to a lot just because of, you know, his upbringing. I didn't have a lot when I was being brought up, like, not to the extent that he was, but I can relate to him. I just love his music, so that's the third. So if you're listening, let's collaborate.

I'm sure you will be.

Yeah. So yeah, I think just to believe in yourself. I know it's very difficult. I got knocked down numerous times, even by my parents, you know, you get a real job, you know, when it wasn't working out. And I was like, this is what I want to be doing. You know, um, I'd rather wake up being happy and earn half the amount than earn double and wake up sad and depressed and be like, oh, I'm going into work today.

Yeah.

Um, so students out there, take risks, um, believe in yourself and set yourself targets. I think just to have something to As I said, there could be realistic ones, and then you can have some, you can call them unrealistic but achievable. I think it's quite important because it allows you to, you know, have something to direct yourself in.

Yeah, so I think actually one of the, one of my favorite attributes that I'm trying to not let go of, even if sometimes it bites me, like, is that delusional optimist. Kind of believing that these big ideas are possible and, you know, having those clear goals within that and metrics or whatever to go by helps. But just like never letting anyone take that away from you, and you've clearly got that as well.

I think it's difficult though, like, because as I said, like, my parents, I have friends around me, you know, that jealousy came into it and got a bit toxic, and you will get knocked down And again, a very cliché thing to say, but like, you have to be quite resilient. It's like, built me to be stronger as well, especially when you've got your parents going like, get a real job. I don't hate them for saying that. Like, as I said, it made me more resilient. It made me strive harder for what I wanted to achieve. You are going to get knocked back. Like, it goes without saying, you are going to get knocked back. You can have people that say you're not good enough, or, you know, get a real job, or do this, do that. You will have that. That's just how people are. But it's just having that belief to be like, you know what, I have myself a target. Um, you're not going to achieve anything if you don't have your own belief, you know. And don't get me wrong, I had lows where I was like, okay, this isn't working. But it's then switching your mindset. Okay, that hasn't worked. How can I now develop in, in another way? Like As I said, when I sent that portfolio— sorry, I just hit the mic— I sent the portfolio off to like 10 different companies and didn't hear back from them when I was working at Nike before I went to HR. At that point I was like, where do I go from here? You know, I've been knocked down by 10 different companies, but it's just having that one. And that, you know, thankfully, you know, I had the confidence to be like, okay, well, I'm working at Nike, let's go direct to Nike. And I took that chance and it paid off, you know. But I could have sat there and gone, okay, well, I've handed it into 10 different companies, I'm not good enough, I'll stay in retail. And that was it, you know. And I think that was the turning point where I was like, you know what, you've got to be confident that you might get knocked back, but, you know, believe in yourself.

Sure. And earlier on, you, you said, uh, You said your favorite moment or reaction was the little kid. Some quickfire questions. Go. Favorite person, favorite design you've ever done?

On boots or like ever?

Ever.

Such a difficult one to nail. And you say quickfire.

Yeah, quickfire, okay, doesn't—

you're right, okay. So boot-wise, I'll say Enzo Fernandez. Being a Chelsea fan, you know, World Cup winner. He loved the design. Um, he actually didn't know what he— he knew, he knew he wanted it on a white boot, but he didn't know. And I was like— and again, there was a language barrier, so I was like translating on Instagram. And I did the first design, he was like, I love it, like straight away, didn't change anything. It was like bang on. He was like, absolutely love it. He's where— he wore them just for the international break, the last two games as well. Um, so seeing him wear it just unbelievable. So I'd say that. But outside of football, I'd probably say, I mean, Anthony Joshua was linked with football because it was with EA Sports, but maybe customizing a Red Bull Mini Cooper was pretty cool. That was like a live customization, had like loads of people watching me whilst I was doing it. And that was obviously the first car that I've customized. So yeah, I'd probably say that was a standout.

Biggest artist inspiration?

Away from customisation, and I've named him a number of times and I love him to bits, and I'll send this to him afterwards, is Kelvin Okafor. African artist, he does hyperrealist portraits. I can't compare him to anyone else, it's just phenomenal work. Shout out to him because I did a I met him at the Tate. There was a workshop that he was doing, and I'd been— I studied him at GCSE level, came across his work on Instagram. I was like, oh my God, like, these are unbelievable. And I messaged him, didn't hear back. Um, and then I saw a workshop pop up and it was like 10 tickets. I'm not getting that. So I went to sign up, went in, 30 seconds gone. So I phoned them up and said, look, been a massive fan of his and like, we're really sorry they're gone, but if anyone drops out, yeah, we'll message you. You're first on the list. Cool. No one's going to drop out. There's 10 people, you know. It's different if it's 100 people, you might get one job. Next morning she phones me up and she was like, someone says someone can't make it, I'm there, right? And it just changed the way I drew. Um, such a lovely down-to-earth guy, um, told the most amazing stories. And we've messaged over Instagram, like, he got back to me and he was like— when I met him in person, I was like, oh, by the way, I messaged you. And he was like, I'm so sorry, I get tons of messages. And we've spoken a number of times. And then he had an exhibition up in Green Park probably 8, 9, 10 years ago, and I went with my friends who were studying at university at the time. Probably not that long ago then. It might have been, actually. God, thinking about it, I feel odd. And we went to the exhibition and he was there and I was like, I'm gonna wait to speak. He was speaking to someone at the time. I went around the exhibition and whilst he was speaking, he turned around, he went, Jordan.

Oh.

He goes, I'm just with someone, but we'll speak after. He goes, you still doing the drawings? I was like, yeah. And that— and then we spoke for like an hour, you know, it was like the most loveliest catch-up and For me, yeah, one of the artists that stand out for me for sure.

Amazing. And your favourite football game you've ever been to?

Favourite football game? My dad took me to— my dad took me to Chelsea-Everton FA Cup final. Luis Saha scored after 21 seconds and I looked at my dad and I was like, not today, please, out of all days, we're not losing this final. And then Oh, this is my memory. Frank Lampard scored the winner. I can't remember who scored the equaliser. But yeah, that was a core memory for me. I remember afterwards we came out, everyone was celebrating, and I think Marouane Fellaini was playing for Everton at the time. He had the massive afro and there was so many Everton fans with these wigs on. I just remember loads of fans just chucking them off the bridge, either because they were angry at the game Or like some of the Chelsea fans were like taking them off their heads and just like throwing off. Um, yeah, I'd say that was a standout for me actually.

Yeah, just on that, maybe Frank, has there been like a goal that someone wearing one of the customized—

wow, that was, um, so I designed a pair for Darwin Núñez, and at the time he was struggling. It was when he first came to England and he was struggling, just couldn't hit a ball on goal. And then I met him at his house, gave him the boots, and he kissed the boots because it had like a Uruguayan flag on it. And I said to him, again, he was not great at English, and I said, "Plenty of goals?" He goes, "Yeah, yeah." And then all of a sudden it just— the biggest purple patch. Well, I say purple patch, he's killing it now, but the amount of goals he scored, a flick goal I remember against Real Madrid in the Champions League. And then I got messages from people going, "Do your boots have superpowers or something?" Because I did boots for Son and Emerson, Emerson Royal at Spurs. Gave it to them in the morning and they played West Ham that afternoon. And obviously Son's a forward, so you expect him to score anyway, but he scored that day, but so did Emerson Royal. And then that's when the messages again came through and like, okay, something's up with your boots because Emerson's also scoring.

So you got Liverpool fans and Tottenham fans singing your praises then?

Exactly. Yeah, you get loads of fans being like, oh, you need to customise for X, Y, and Z, just to give them a bit of confidence, you know. 'we need a few goals,' yeah.

You're not going to say no to that.

Exactly, exactly.

Yeah, and so it's been a great chat, and my final question to you that I ask every single one of my guests is, when you first, you know, actually let's take it back to even when you first started drawing, you might have had a certain idea of what a successful career as an artist might look like to you then. Fast forward, having done what you've done, what does a successful career look like to you now? How has it changed?

Successful career, happiness is a massive thing for me. As I mentioned earlier, I would never want to be in a career where I'm not happy. And I think a lot of people, when you ask them about success, is money is probably the first thing that comes to mind. Um, and there's nothing wrong with that, like, of course money helps us. Um, the happiness for me. As I said, I'd rather wake up every morning loving what I do. Um, but part of it, you know, I don't like being in the limelight much. I get filmed quite a lot, and of course I enjoy it, I get a buzz from it. But knowing people, knowing who I am, is an incredible feeling. You know, I went to an event last week and they were like, oh, you're the guy who customizes boots. I've seen— he even came up to me and he said, oh, because I saw him at that event, but I also bumped into him a week before another event. They were linked, the two events. And he said— he came up to me at the second one, he goes, 'I have to apologize.' I said, 'Why?' And he said, 'My son knew who you were. He follows you on Instagram, and he's like, Dad, how did you not say hello to Jordan?' And that, for me, you know, like, these are people that I don't even know, and they sing my praises. So, um, you know, of course I'm surrounded by great friends and family But knowing, like, having those interactions and people knowing who I am because of the work I do, not just because of my name, that's a massive bonus for me.

Yeah, I love it. Yeah, I love it, man. Again, it's really refreshing. I feel like, you know, especially when we first met, you know, having got the intro and people saying, oh, you know, it's not just an artist, like these people, you might build up in your head what that could come out as a product, as a person. Yeah, but you're just like the complete opposite, very balanced as well.

Appreciate it.

Yeah, yeah, I really enjoyed this interview, mate.

And me.

Appreciate you coming on.

Thanks for having me on.