Ashleen Narula, Director @ Grad Girl Marketing

Welcome back to another episode of the Graduate Guide. Today is a very special day, joined by Aisling, Welcome to the podcast.

Thank you.

Um, yeah, you are the founder of Grad Girl Marketing, which is the largest marketing community. Um, and yeah, I mean, I think a good place to start is just to explain what Grad Girl Marketing is and what you do.

Yeah, definitely. So I started Grad Girl in 2020. It's essentially an online educational marketing platform to empower people to progress a career in marketing and to help people land their dream jobs. So basically, I started Grad Girl when I just graduated during COVID I came from a business background, so I had no marketing experience, nothing to help me basically get a job, and I kept getting rejected from like every company. So I thought, why don't I try and create an Instagram page which will essentially be like my portfolio, and then I can put that on my CV and then get a job, which is what happened. But yeah, now through that, I've built a community of over £140K, I think. And yeah, just helping students, grads, anyone in marketing to upskill and yeah, get their dream job.

I think that's a really interesting, um, journey because I think if someone just looks at your company now, they would presume it's like this very intentional entrepreneurial venture. But like, a lot of things do start off where your why is almost doing it for yourself, like, you know, just selfish reasons. And then you realize that a lot of people buy into the same sort of outlook as you. And, uh, and yeah, I mean, how do you think the business is and how you actually perceive it has changed from when you started it, you know, throughout your time working in other jobs while doing it, and then actually now going full-time with it in February?

Yeah, you know what, when I first started it, obviously I studied business, I didn't know anything about marketing. I'd just done my dissertation on marketing, but I guess It was more so things that I'd learned from doing courses or attending like online webinars or just any like research. I guess between like 2020 and now I've had multiple jobs. I worked at two different marketing agencies with, I was on accounts like Apple and H&M across like paid social and programmatic. So I feel like during that time I've picked up a lot of skills like client communication and understanding different types of marketing. Um, advertising. So I guess now it's more so like a community where I can basically share my experiences in the corporate world, but also, um, more about what I've learned about marketing. So when I first started, I did really think marketing was like just social media, but through my jobs, obviously I got more exposure to paid social, programmatic, things that you don't usually hear about. Um, so I guess now it's kind of based on my experience and yeah, just helping people as much as I can.

Um, yeah, yeah, I think it's really cool that you— people have been sort of with you for this whole journey of actually learning marketing. I think maybe that's what made it so accessible to our generation. Um, you mentioned that you didn't really know what marketing was, and since then you've learned a lot about it. You could actually demystify for us what you think marketing means and actually is. For our listeners, that'd be great.

Yeah, I guess marketing is— I have to think about this. Um, I'd say it's such a vague term, but marketing is made up of so many different sectors. Like, so you've got social media, which is a big sector, but that's not all. You've also got advertising, you've got paid social, programmatic, email marketing. You've got so many different aspects. I guess it's just Um, yeah, I would say it's just made up of many different factors. Yeah, yeah.

And then so the next follow-on question from that would be, what actually does a career in marketing look like? Let's say you're just like, oh, you know, I'd like to go into marketing. What do you think at, you know, a student level they can look at as entry-level roles into a career in marketing?

Yeah, so I guess, um, in terms of like job titles, you can look into like internships, so interns any type of intern, so like marketing intern, PR intern, basically just having the different types of marketing in front of intern. You've also got assistant-level jobs, you've got executive, so that's how I started. So I was a programmatic exec, and then I turned into a biddable, like, senior exec going on. You've also got like coordinator roles, but I think a good starting point would actually be like agencies. I know a lot of agencies hire people that have no experience that are just willing to learn and are passionate about marketing.

Yeah, I feel like that willingness to learn is like a skill that every company looks for, but I think how you actually transfer that or relay that you are willing to learn in a job interview might be quite a difficult feat. And I think obviously you said you kind of built your portfolio online, which was probably a distinguishing factor to landing these jobs. Yeah, have you got any sort of— especially, you know, looking back and working with graduates now— any advice of how people can stand out amongst a lot of people that want to go into marketing?

Yeah, you know what, now I think, uh, I don't know if you agree with me, but I think marketing now is much harder to get into than it was before, just because the industry is quite saturated and it's growing at such a fast pace. But definitely what I did is what I'd recommend. So start an Instagram page, basically, um, and that was my portfolio. Because if you— especially if you want to get into like social media You can talk about that in your interviews, you can, you know, add it on your CV, which is what I did. Anytime I went into an interview, I was like, oh yeah, like Grad Girl is what I've started, and these are all the skills that I've got from it. So definitely like start a passion project, it can be anything, it doesn't even have to be an Instagram page, it could be like a podcast.

Yeah, no, exactly. I think sort of my opinion on that, and this is generally what I believe with the job market in general, was that it's moving so quickly into so many different niches that, you know, institutions and governmental bodies and, you know, universities, they don't— they aren't adapting quick enough. And it's, you know, things like personal branding, like a lot of people hear that word and there's actually like a stigma around it, but then they— that is a marketing vehicle. Um, and I think, you know, maybe like a traditionalist marketer like may not want to embrace these, these changes, uh, would be my opinion. Um, but yeah, I mean, personal branding is an interesting one, uh, because obviously brands, it's incredibly important to market, like, otherwise what's the point of having a good product, right? Um, I think it's the same for students. Um, you, you now have the advantage to, to stand out even before the job interview with personal branding. And what would you say, um, yeah, like, your, your learnings have been in the world of personal branding then?

Yeah, definitely. Um, I'd say I wish I had a personal— like, I guess everyone has a personal brand. You all have a reputation offline and online. But I guess I wish I started my personal brand when I was at uni. So when I was at uni, I didn't really use LinkedIn. I thought it was cringe. I thought, I can't post, everyone that I know is gonna see what I'm posting. Um, but I guess when COVID happened is when myself and a lot of other people went on to LinkedIn and Yeah, I got to speaking to other graduates, I connected with people that were in like my dream jobs at the time when like hiring managers. So yeah, I just say start your personal brand as soon as you can because we all have a reputation. It's just how you make the most of it and kind of build yourself as a thought leader in the industry.

Yeah, I think it basically comes down to storytelling, right? Because You know, as a student when I went on LinkedIn, I had the exact same opinion. It was like, you see sort of emojis flying around everywhere and, you know, successful people congratulating other successful people. As a student trying to find a job and something, trying to find your passion, you don't really know where you fit into that. But ultimately, I think the more like authentic you can be on that platform and just telling your story and your exact position, and you can really start that at any time. I think it just then, to be honest, with almost any marketing, it comes down to putting yourself out there. And there's like social pressures to come over there. Like, is that— did you have to overcome some social pressures when it came to doing this whole, you know, yeah, what, Grad Girl Marketing, starting it from the beginning?

Yeah, definitely. I remember when I first started, I was really scared to tell anyone because I didn't want them to think, oh, like, she's so cringe, or like, what is she doing? But I guess it's The hardest step is literally the first step. So now I guess no one would probably even remember when I first started, or like my first post probably had 5 likes from me and all of my friends. So I guess, yeah, and no one would remember that first post. So it's literally just overcoming that first step, which was the hardest. And I guess it's just, it's just like a learning experience from there onwards.

I think in your career, like you mentioned that you worked with top brands at an agency. There's an interesting, you know, sort of debate when you're a student in terms of the routes you should go. Do you go traditional sort of grad schemes? Do you go work in a sort of more, uh, yeah, like a scale-up or a startup where you feel more empowered? Or do you just try and do something while you're young and you can fail? I mean, obviously I feel like you've kind of done a little bit of all of them, you know. You've worked with the big brands, you've worked in the agency, you've you've done something for yourself. Where have you sort of landed then? I know you're doing your own thing now, but do you think it was definitely a worthwhile experience exploring the more traditional jobs and corporate world?

Yeah, you know what, I think, um, because I also do freelancing on the side, so I think having that agency experience before was really useful because first of all, I got to learn, you know, from people directly in the industry on how to work with these brands, what like paid social even was. I don't think I would have figured it out alone. I also got to work with different clients globally, um, so having that experience across client communication and stakeholder management, I guess, yeah, it definitely helped me set my foundation for working with the clients that I do now. So I guess, yeah, if anyone has a chance to go down the corporate route, I definitely recommend it, but I would say, you know, try and do some courses or attend some webinars or events or speak to people in the industry so you know what you're getting yourself into.

And I think it's interesting you were saying that you had no idea really what you wanted to do at university, you were studying a business degree, um, and now you're actually, you know, coaching and mentoring people in that exact same place. Is there anything that you wish that you were doing at university that you now know exists?

Um, so personal branding. So I would build my personal brand if I was at uni. I'd also try and attend webinars and events. So I don't know if events were a thing back then when I was at uni, but I think now there's like so many events that you can attend. You can network with people that are in the same position and also meet people that are already in the industry. So kind of, you you know, build your network. I would also, I guess, try and get work experience. I know that's a big thing, especially, you know, once you graduate, you're looking for a job. If you don't have experience, you're not going to get anywhere. So when you're at uni, you know, use the time during summer or your weekends and try and get experience.

And when— what was the moment then for you that you embraced your sort of entrepreneurial element of yourself? Because, yeah, we were chatting beforehand and you said you never really saw yourself as an entrepreneur, you never really tried anything, and it was that one thing that you sort of started, yeah, kind of out of desperation, that became it. But when did you realize you had, you know, what it takes to do something for yourself?

You know what, I think it was, um, I'd say first during my interviews. Whenever I brought it up, everyone was really impressed. They were like, wow, because I'd grown it to such a big amount in such a short time across, I think it was two platforms at the time, so Instagram and LinkedIn. So just seeing like other people's reactions, but also I had people reaching out to me asking for help. And just when I would put content out, they would say, "Oh, I found this really helpful. Like I used it in my interview and it helped me get a job." Or, you know, like, "I put this on my CV and I guess it worked." So just knowing that what I was putting there was helping other people and Also, as I mentioned to you earlier, so I did take a 2-year hiatus from Grad Girl when I was working, and during that time I had a lot of people reach out and say, you know what, I miss your content, like, when are you posting? Which to me felt surreal. I didn't, I didn't even know anyone would realize that I'm not posting. And also a few of my friends, and there was people like that I worked with in my last company that I didn't know because it was an agency, it was quite big, but they would see me in the office and they say, "Oh, you're a Grad Girl, like, I've seen your content online." Just basically getting recognized, I guess.

Yeah, I think because you've been doing this, you know, for 4 years now, there'll be people that you, in the initial days that you were helping out, that I guess have gone on to have prestigious careers in marketing. Are you using, maybe one that comes to mind as a case study? What did they do right in their marketing career to end up where they did?

You know what, I think just being self-driven, I think that's a really important thing in marketing. So I would say, you know, just someone that goes out of their way to continue learning about marketing, keeping up to date with trends. There was one person I do remember which she saw my account and she asked me, how do I get experience? And I said, this is what I did. I started a page, you should start one too. I think she did, I'm not sure if she posts now, but I know it did help her to, you know, get a job at the end.

And, you know, I wonder, you know, you've just started your entrepreneurial journey, but where do you see this going? There seems like there's no ceiling to what you can actually achieve in this world. You're already sort of flying the flag and leading the way with this in this new space, and yeah, what do you sort of, how do you see the Grad Girl Marketing developing?

You know what, I have a different answer every single day just because, as you said, like there's so many different things that I can do. I guess I want to continue growing my community, you know, helping as many people as I can, continuing to make that impact, but also taking it to a global level. So 40% of my community are based in America, which is insane. So last month when I put out a post saying like, who would want to come and event 'Come to an event,' and like which locations. A lot of people were naming different states in America, and I was like, 'Oh, I can't come there now, but I would love to, you know, expand in the future.' It almost makes it difficult, right?

Like, the— it becomes a skill. Like, you know, in the beginning of your career, you have to say yes and yes and yes to so many different opportunities. And then you find, as you sort of progress and go on, that you— like, learning how to say no is like a really important decision because you just can't do it all, at least not to the level and standard that you set. What, yeah, what's your journey been with that? And, you know, yeah, how have you learned to say no?

You know what, I think it comes with experience and practice. I was a person who, in my first job, I just said yes to everything just because I knew that if I let, like, if I learn now, I can use these skills in the future, to the point where I was so overworked. I was always working, like, I wouldn't say no to anything, But I guess, yeah, it just comes with practice and time. You just have to prioritise what's more important to you, and something that's not of value, you're going to have to say no.

Yeah, and you're— I guess you're well set, put it that way, for marketing your business. But I imagine there are a lot of different things that you're having to learn at this point that comes into entrepreneurship. What have been some learning curves that, you know, some any students listening that maybe are thinking about starting their own thing, how they could get ahead and start thinking about, uh, you know, diversifying their entrepreneurial abilities?

Yeah, definitely. Um, when I went full-time in February, I didn't realize I have to do everything. So like, you know, like finance and admin and sending invoices and all of that, which I still despise to this day. I'm sure everyone does. But, um, I know you can— I know there's like charities like the Prince's Trust which help you with like setting up your business. So I'd I would say if that is a route that someone wants to go into, just, yeah, read up on it and just try and get as much information as you can before you dive into it.

Yeah, and, uh, you know, as we come towards the end of the episode, I'd love to sort of, uh, get a little bit of a masterclass in marketing. And yeah, again, using the case study of a brand that you think that has just absolutely smashed it in the marketing world and why you think they might have done that.

I have two. Can I say two?

Yeah, of course.

So the first one, they're both for like very similar reasons, um, is Monzo. I'm not sure if you've seen Monzo on—

with coral red. Yeah, yeah.

Um, on LinkedIn especially, they, um, you know, you wouldn't think that they're just like a traditional bank. They've added this— they've humanized their brand in a way that when they post, it's so funny that you would, you will know that it's Monzo because of their humor surrounding the brand and also their community engagement. And then yeah, based on that community engagement, I would also say Semrush. Um, once again, just another like B2B brand that you wouldn't really expect to have like a social media presence, but across, I think, um, TikTok and LinkedIn specifically, like, um, you can just see the efforts that they put into their community management. So on TikTok There's like a few members of their team that they, you know, use for like skits, and you can just tell it's Semrush by the way they market themselves, and they come across as very human and, you know, quite relatable to anyone in the marketing world. And also on LinkedIn, their community engagement, like the way they interact with Grad Girl as well, like you just, it just makes you want to interact with them again. So yeah, two brands.

Yeah, and Yeah, my final question to you then, uh, when you first were starting off your career coming out of university, not really knowing what you wanted to do, you might have had a certain idea of what a successful career would look like, you know. Fast forward everything you've learned, all your different jobs, building your business, what is your current definition of success and how has it changed?

Um, you know what, I think success for me is just being happy where I am because I was in a stage So when I took a break from Grad Girl, um, and I came back and I saw other people that were doing like similar things and just seeing how far ahead they've gotten and just putting myself in a position thinking, oh, I wish I had done that that time, or you know what, I wish I didn't stop. So there's always going to be that thought like, oh, you wish you did something else, but it's always just taking a moment to take in all of the, you know, like the impact that you've made and all the results that you've gotten. I think sometimes we don't realise all of these achievements that we've got, so yeah, just being happy in where you are at the moment, I think that's success.

Love that, and yeah, thanks so much for coming on, I really appreciate it. Is there anywhere people can find you then?

Yeah, um, Grad Girl Marketing on LinkedIn, Instagram, and TikTok.

Amazing, yeah, thanks.