Charlie Allen, Founder @ Friday Night Lights & RUN SOCIAL

Welcome back to another episode of The Garage Guide. Today's a very special day, joined by Charlie, Charlie, welcome to the podcast.

Thanks very much, how's it going?

Yeah, good, mate. Yeah, can you just start off by telling us a little bit about your company Run Social and your career journey up to that point?

Sure, so Run Social is like a community-driven company. We started just over 2 years ago now and we now own 2 brands, which is Run Soc, or Run Social, which is colloquially known as, and that's like a UK-wide running club on a Wednesday. And then we also have a brand called Friday Night Lights, which is basically like a rolling, raving, running nightclub. We don't really call it a run club, it's just like a rolling festival really. So that's kind of what we've been doing for the last 2 years or so.

Amazing. And before that you were in the corporate world, you were, you know, the startup was born out of already working in a job, right?

Yeah, that's correct. I mean, The startup was born out of desperation. I worked in recruitment, which isn't like a bad industry at all, and people give it a bad rap. And you can, you know, I didn't have much of an education and I wasn't very smart. I didn't really have any or many skills, but if you can talk a lot and, you know, willing to try hard, then recruitment's a fantastic industry to go and earn a living in. But after a couple years in that, I just got fed up of cold calling people and hitting KPIs and targets. And I thought that there's got to be a, there's got to be a way I can do something more than this. And I felt like I could offer more, and I felt really, really trapped in, you know, the constraints of a 9-to-5, picking up a phone, and a very structured life. I wanted to do something a little bit better.

And did that manifest itself as you constantly thinking of different business ideas or exits, or was it like this idea of RunSocial was always in the back of mind and you just made the decision one day, I'm gonna execute this. How does that even happen?

Yeah, so I've had like, you know, on my notes on my phone, I keep like a notes list of all of my cool ideas that I think either would have worked or will work really well as like future business plans. And like 5 or 6 of them previously have been absolutely garbage. Like, but I thought, this is gonna really work. Like, you know, we had an idea for a— we tried to pitch it to Mankind for like, you know, like when you used to sit exams in school and you'd have like a flip-down chair. But like festival toilets are horrendous. So we basically took the lid off, stuck a toilet lid on a flip-down one and tried to pitch the concept as like a portable festival toilet with a biodegradable bag, which is obviously like rubbish. And we styled it like the Supreme branding and stuff. But, but yeah, we've had loads of ideas before.

Yeah. And when you say we, who do you mean?

Oh, it'd just be mates. Yeah. You know, just like people who are like colleagues or friends or even like sometimes strangers. We go, oh, this is a really cool idea. And we have pursued stuff, um, and we made a, like, a very affordable, uh, classic lockdown business of like cycling clothes that we imported and we could sell them for like half the price of like big competitors and brands because our overheads were so low because it was just me and my friends working from home in lockdown. So we had had loads of small ideas and tried them and they all failed, or for some reason or another, but this one just kept working. Like, it just kept growing, and we didn't set out with the intention of growing two brands and, you know, running in 17 towns and cities across the UK. We just started running because it was initially, like, quite fun. Yeah. And it was a little bit of a release from what we were doing, and, and it slowly, slowly evolved and evolved and evolved. And what we do now is so incredibly different to what we did, you know, two or so years ago when we first started. So we've always come up with those ideas, or I have always come up with stuff, and then This has just evolved more and more and more and into the point where now it became a business, which is actually quite cool.

Yeah, no, it's really cool. And I think, you know, just from the conversation we had before this, and already I think people listening, they can tell you have a really like playful attitude towards entrepreneurship, which I love. And I think I resonate with a lot as well, where it's just kind of like that just start attitude, you know, what's the worst that could happen? And I think you're seeing the the benefits of that now. You know, the first one might not work, the second one might not work, but just starting already separates you from everyone else. And I think it's interesting because, you know, having done this podcast with so many different types of founders, like, some people will really make you want to run from entrepreneurship, like, paint it to be like something that's, you know, you're working all this time, like, you have— you've got to commit everything, you've got to hate your life to some degree, and And I think I'm always most inspired by people that makes it seem accessible, you know, whether it's a student or someone younger thinking, I do want to do something more than, you know, that, whether it's recruitment or whatever they're in. Um, what were your thoughts on, on entrepreneurship, and, and how would you sort of say to your younger self to look at entrepreneurship?

Yeah, um, I mean, it's always a word I try to avoid, like entrepreneur and entrepreneurship. Anyway, I never thought of myself like that, and I still don't. Um, even though that's kind of the world you are in. But I think, um, I think I would, uh, just remind myself, like, you don't need to be especially good at anything. You just need to be willing, and you just need to try. Um, and there's, you know, a lot of my friends who went on from grammar school to uni and then graduated would always look for validation from, like, senior managers or from, you know, their exec team or their leadership team to validate their careers and their choices. And I remember having a conversation once where and it was actually with one of my friends on LinkedIn. So we were talking about LinkedIn and they were like, well, you can't just say you do that. And in my head, and I was overhearing, it's like a barbecue, family barbecue, and I was like, well, I can. Like, no, I can say that I'm a founder of a company because that's what I'm gonna do. And for some reason, that real small, insignificant throwaway comment from a friend who was having another conversation with someone else, like, you're not. And they were actually talking about my stepdad saying, who's a coach, He was like, you can't just say you're a coach now. And in my head I was like, well, he can. Like, who's actually prohibiting him from going out there and saying, I'm a coach, I'm going to coach people, and you're going to pay me money to do it, and validate his own career choices and things like that? And I think I'd like to teach myself that lesson. Like, you can choose your own destiny. Oh God, that's so cheesy. You can choose your own, you know, route and path, and you can decide, you know, what you want to be and who you want to be and how you're going to do it. I think I would have liked to have learned that earlier instead of looking to big companies or senior managers or other people to validate my career choices and my career worth.

Yeah, I often refer to myself as a bit of a delusional optimist, which I think potentially you have as well, but like, I think, you know, whether it's the UK education system or, you know, just following the well-known path, like, it kind of beats that out of you a bit. It's like, okay, level yourself, like, do what's within your means and earn the right to do something. Um, and I think, like, it's— some people might perceive it as skipping steps, like, you know, if you just say, I'm a founder. But, like, if you look at any company, really, like, that's how they've started, whether they've had 20 years of experience or anything in a field and then go on and start a company. Nothing is going to give you the right to start a company, so you've got to give it to yourself.

Yeah, yeah, you don't have to give it yourself, you can just take it. Yeah, like you can just go online to Companies House and incorporate a company. You can go to Wix and build a free website, or Squarespace. You can start putting like an Instagram account together and some TikTok reels. You could probably use your own iPhone that you already own, or an Android, and start producing content and adverts. And you can start writing on LinkedIn. And then before you know it, like much what we have both done, within a year or two you might have a business. You might not. But you might have a business as well. And I think people don't realize, like, it's, you know, it's just literally there. Like, you can just start, you know, this is not Googling, how do I make a company? Googling, how do I pay taxes now? Okay, I need to get an accountant. And having to work out to just problem solve is all it is. And that you can just, you know, you can just reach out and grasp it and take it, as opposed to, you know, waiting for other people to give it to you, which is really cool. And people don't, I don't think people really realize that, you know, you can just go and start.

Yeah, let's talk a little bit about like once you have started then, how it can actually go from, you know, that idea or that first run club in your case to what it is now. Like what would you say was like the biggest, most important thing you did in actually turning it from like an idea that people invested into a business?

Yeah, I don't. So the industry we're in is like running events and running clubs and running communities and social spaces, and it's relatively new and is emerging. Like, the in-real-life experience is quite a new space. So we, we were quite lucky that, you know, to be somebody who's an industry leader, you couldn't— you didn't have to like go up against, you know, you weren't reinventing the wheel, you were inventing the wheel. It was your choice, it was your decision. But we just opted to do everything properly from the get-go. So even when we had like 6 members, I built a really nice website. We actually did use Wix, but I'm not sponsored by them, but we built a really nice website and we did everything officially. We had a sign-up page, we used it, we started to build a CRM, and we just took everything really seriously. And we, we approached it like it was a business even though it wasn't. And people laughed at us at first, and I put it on my LinkedIn and I took myself and I took it really, really seriously. And I think that was the defining moment of having like a bit of a hobby job or, you know, something that was on the side, to then actually changing my mindset of, well, I'm doing this proper and I don't care what anybody else thinks of my stupid little running club that meets on a Wednesday in London. This is what I'm gonna do and everyone else can, you know, that doesn't have— their opinion does not matter. I think that was like one of the first I think that was like the real step, was going almost like out to friends, family, publicly on my social media, on LinkedIn, etc., that this is what I'm trying to do. And like being, you know, okay with, um, being okay with seeing people see me try hard, which is— a lot of people were worried about being seen to try in life. I feel like they, you know, it's seen as like corny or cheesy. And, um, like, I think that was the real moment, was like, I don't care, like, I am trying hard, I'm gonna do this proper, and we're gonna take this, like, we're gonna treat it like a business even though it's not, and we will turn it into one. And that was probably the first real big thing.

I love that. And, um, no, I think it's, it's interesting to know what your friends in your recruitment job might have been thinking at that moment in time and like how that actually on a day-to-day basis affects you, or how you didn't let it affect you, because I think social pressures has got to be one of the, the main reasons that people don't just go ahead and and do something, right? So like, I think you are a product of your environment, and it comes up to you and a massive skill in, you know, you don't have to throw someone out your life because they don't support the idea or, you know, belittle it or whatever, but like just knowing that whose opinion matters most in respect to your business, for example.

Yeah, of course. And like, funny enough you say that, like there is a, in my recruitment office at the time before the first run we ever did, there was a comment from a throwaway comment from someone, and they probably have no idea they even said it. And it was like a snide remark about the club, about it's gonna fail. And I still hold on to that now as like motivation. And that person doesn't— I've not spoken to the person for like a year. I've not seen them. I don't even see them on social media anymore. Like, even the algorithms kicked out of my life. And, um, but I still clamber on to that comment of like, uh, you know, it's like probably took like 4 seconds to say Yeah, and I still like reference it in my head, like his motivation of like, well, I'm going to show that person. Yeah, they probably have no idea, I don't even care. And I still, you know, really hang on to that, like going against that social pressure. I use that, I try to use that as, um, you know, a motivation to keep me going.

Well, what I find really interesting, um, about you saying that is because you're, you're not self-deprecating, but you're not you're the opposite of arrogant, should we say. I'm not sure what word I'm looking for. Like, when externally you want to come across as that, like, even you were a professional footballer, but you were talking, you were downplaying your ability and everything like that before this conversation. But inside you believe that you can do anything. Like, you've got this internal confidence that, you know, no, I'm gonna prove him wrong. What do you think that actually is? Like, if you could define what that feeling is?

Yeah, I mean That's a really nice way of putting it. I don't think anybody's articulated, even myself, that, but that's actually really quite nice. But yeah, I do have that internal drive, like, that I can do something. And, you know, I was like, you know, just not a good footballer. You know, my strength was trying hard, and that was still my strength now, was that. So, you know, I'm not self-deprecating, but I'm very much a realist where I appreciate the limits of my skill and what I can and can't do. And I really do believe that I can do— I really believe I'm willing to try harder than anybody else, or not anybody else, but I'm willing to try harder than a lot of people. I'm willing to do more, and I'm really willing to sacrifice to make things happen. And that's what gives me that belief that you can do stuff, you know, you can try and launch a business because other people aren't going to do as much as you. Other people aren't going to do that. And it's not that I'm incredibly skillful, Like, you know, I just, I was brought up in a very strict family of, you know, you have to work if you want stuff. Um, yeah, you have to work hard if you want, if you want stuff, and I'm a real believer of that. And I think that's what gives me the confidence, or the internal confidence, to push and drive, is like, I will make it work. And, and I think it comes from, you know, from, from that strict family upbringing of, well, if you want to be a footballer, you need to do more than every other young bloke in Europe, or probably across the planet now, that wants to play in the UK. And are you willing to do that? And, you know, I tried, but I didn't. I got to like 24, 25 and got released. But, um, you have to, uh, you know, but it's that, uh, it's that, uh, which, which I rely on is like that willingness to push on and to do more and to keep going.

Yeah, I think You said like it was nice that I articulated, uh, that comment or that compliment like that, but I think it's more that I just— that's how I feel about myself. I really resonate with you, and the way you're projecting yourself makes me feel comfortable enough to say a statement like that. Like, I, I— yeah, I think it's really interesting how much your— what you do in your output and your career can be influenced by who you look up to and who you let be your mentor. Yeah, the hardest part is actually finding that person, having that awareness that these people exist that actually are like you, and then like not trying to be anyone else but yourself. Like, that, that becomes like a really important skill, right? Um, to actually, you know, not everyone's going to be a consultant or, you know, a really good doctor or a lawyer, and you're not meant to be that, but you're just meant to find out where you can add most value. And it's clear that you've done that.

Um, yeah. And you mentioned something before, you know, sorry to reference, uh, you know, the chat before the podcast, but we were speaking about, um, like, you know, that all of these things happen in both of our lives and all of the other founders who are trying to do stuff's lives once they do find their feet themselves. And, um, you know, I found most often that I wasn't myself when I was actually trying to be like everybody else. Yeah, like spending time in the pub, spending my time, my money on like crappy t-shirts that cost so much money. Yeah, spending my money on like going out to like ludicrously expensive bars and restaurants, just trying to fit in with people that I didn't fit in with. And it wasn't until I actually, you know, just was like so fed up— and I said it earlier, like came from desperation— like so fed up of living my life not being who I, you know, I didn't know who I was, but I knew I wasn't that person. And really taking that You know, like, and trying to find yourself. And, you know, you can always look, you know, you can always try and be proud of yourself, and you can always try and push yourself to do more as well, which is, you know, once you do find those steps and those mentors, it like, it really, really helps. And like, breaking that cycle of being like everybody else or living my life like everybody else, even though it didn't really suit me, was one of the toughest things to do, like, through that social pressure that we referenced earlier. I don't want to go to the pub tonight because I'm going to go home and work on my business.

Yeah, let's talk about that a little bit, because probably your most viral LinkedIn post, actually where I came across your work, was when you referenced 99% sober, which I loved. Like, I was like, I'm not there right now, and I don't know if I'm willing to be there quite yet, but like the idea of actually just like optimizing your enjoyment from alcohol essentially is the way that I've digested it. Like, you know, picking and choosing the best times to do it. I think, you know, at some point you must have a realization that you just want your day-to-day, like, feeling of how, you know, whether it's from running, whatever you want, your to live and enjoy your life consistently the best, and not just like let one big night out where you get really drunk with your mates dictate what a good day or week looks like. Um, yeah, can you just tell me a little bit more about your thought process and why you made that post?

Yeah, um, I don't know, like, people take it really literally, like 99% sober is like not— you can only drink 1% of the year. It's about, you know, picking and choosing the times. And one thing that being like drunk or hungover cost me was like so much time, let alone the money. It was like just wasting a Saturday or wasting a whole like 4 or 5 hours on a Friday night, and then actually being able to reclaim and recoup that time away from just sitting in a pub, often with like colleagues or friends of colleagues or, you know, people I didn't really know or never gonna have like a long-term relationship with. And it just became a bit of a drag. And I was like, what am I doing? Like, I don't— I actually don't enjoy this anymore. And I moved to London with no mates, no money, no girlfriend. I lived on my own in like Zone 4 in Southeast London, so I didn't live near any sort of house parties or anything. And every time I had to go out, it would cost me an absolute arm and a leg in time and money and energy. And I was like, you know what, like, I'm just gonna stop. I need to stop doing this. This is just, um, you know, it's just draining on all of my essential resources. Yeah. And, um, and, uh, and yeah, that's how, that's how it came around. And then when I started to talk to people about it, they're like, oh, I really feel this way. And I was like, you know what, I've got a little bit of a platform now on my LinkedIn. I'm gonna, I'm gonna write about this. And it was the first one that got read by millions. Um, and it just really, really hit off. And now the term is like really well coined, and a lot of people across the country use it.

And we get really nice messages of like, hey, like, so you actually coined the term?

Yeah, yeah, literally. I just pulled it out of thin air once when I was writing, when I was writing a post. I was like, what should I call it? Oh, whatever, I'm gonna call it this. And people write me now like, oh hey, I'm a 99% sober as well. I'm like, well, it's gonna stick, I suppose. Like, and, um And yeah, so people message and, you know, drop in like, hey, like, you know, I tried giving up. Like, I also don't want to give up drinking permanently. I love, I love a bit. I love a drink and I love going out with my mates, but when the time is right, yeah, yeah. And I don't want to do it Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and then have a glass of wine from my rosé with my lunch on a Sunday and then have to go back to go into the gym on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. And then, you know, just, it's just, it's just like a savage cycle of, uh of up and down.

The only reason why people don't necessarily do this, even though like someone might be listening to this and being like, I completely agree, I want to be exactly like that, but it's almost like I think it's much easier to like deny that you are, say, an addict or whatever. Like, not, you know, when you're not really that bad but you're just as bad as your mates or whatever, like that's a really hard cycle to break because you need to actually be hard on yourself, and like nobody else is going to hold you to account on that. Like nobody's going to watch you every second of the day, like, and see that you're not doing something that you don't want to do.

Yeah, exactly. And like one of the things, like one of the light bulb moments for me is when I realized that you don't need to have a problem to want to be better. Like the only people who— you don't have to have an alcohol problem to want to deal with your alcohol intake in a better way. And like that was a real light bulb moment. I was like, you know what, like I don't drink like 7 days a week. Like, I just have a couple pints on a Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and I probably am out, you know, most weekends, but not like heavy drinking. And that's not ruining my life. It costs me money, but I can still pay my bills. Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, but it's still a crap way to live my life. Like, it doesn't mean it's— just because it's not like completely tearing it apart. And it was realized I don't have a real big problem, like, and, and people, when I said I'm going on a sober sober, oh cool, what happened? Yeah, you know, what, did you lose your wife? Are you living in the gutter? I was like, no, like, you know, I still, I'm still single and I don't have any mates. But like, the point was like, you, um, people just assumed it was really bad. But like, realizing that you don't have to have a complete and utter problem to make a change or to deal with it better was, you know, and that, that's actually really nicely links to like the motivation behind like Run Social and why it was even started, like was, you know, a good follow-up question to what we've spoken about, like, well, what do you do? And the answer in London is nothing. Yeah, you either, you either go out or you sit on your sofa. There's no— there's very few in-between spaces for people to go out and actually do stuff. Um, you know, there's nothing for you to do unless you go out and you end up in, you know, your mate's house party or kitchen at 4 AM, or you go out and you sit on your sofa and, you know, you might get Domino's and watch TV. Yeah, there's literally no middle ground that's not ludicrously expensive or incredibly hard to book.

Yeah, no, and I think I'm conscious that like someone listens to this maybe for the first time, they're like, okay, this is a careers podcast called The Graduate Guide, like what does this actually like mean for my career? Or how can I take this, what you're saying, and actually put into practice like how I could better my career with it? But like, you can't actually truthfully excel in your career unless your life is in the situation that you want it, unless you've got your life on lock and under control. And I think, you know, you're testament to that, like your journey. I imagine— I'm not sure the exact timings of Run Social and success within it or whatever, but I'm sure that your confidence in actually like going ahead with a project like this and all these other business ideas not like coming to fruition beforehand. The difference was maybe quite largely down to you understanding what you want your life to look like.

Yeah, 100%. It was the— none of it would have happened had I not— yeah, there was, there was one night out and it was the last big one. I went, right, I'm never doing this again. Yeah, it was like a Christmas do and it was nothing bad happened, but I was just like extraordinarily hungover. Miles away.

This is the last time.

Yeah, and then I bet that— and for me, like, I legitimately said it, everyone, ah, yeah, whatever, you know, your friends are like when they swear it, and I was like, oh, like, I'm not, like, I'm done, like, I'm, I'm really done. And, um, and you're completely right, until you get your ducks in a— until you get your ducks in order, then, you know, it's really hard to do anything. It's really, really tough. And, you know, people reference that or ask me like, when— how did you do it? And you know what, I actually like— I don't mind saying it, but like and people that I hated on like YouTube and Instagram, like these stupid annoying motivational podcast shorts and clips, like I watched them and I started reading like this, the generic first self-help books like Atomic Habits and Mark Manson, whatever it is, How Not to Give Up, whatever. And, um, and I literally was like, right, where do I start? And I, you know, I watched some YouTube clips and I read my first book for about a decade, and then I learned some cook from a cooking book. And then I picked up like a running, you know, video blog like Ben Is Running and all that kind of stuff. And, uh, and that's how it started, was like, you know, just actually engaging with the amount of— like, most of it was probably toxic, but it still gave me the start to, to, you know, all the angle of how to progress forward.

I do find it interesting because I've started, and I, you know, I'm much earlier on this journey, or But, you know, I'm making, I'd say because of this podcast, quite a lot of intensive learning. So my learning curve is very steep at the moment, um, and it's making me say quotes and things I never thought I would say. I mean, like, just like what I would— 16-year-old me would be like, oh, cringy, whatever, like, I'm not going to use that, that will never have meaning to me in life. But then you start saying it and it's just made me reconsider that if everybody who's actually saying it like in these, you know, books or in these shorts, that's what they actually feel and mean. Like, and I guess, um, it brings me on to a little bit of like, how do you make that authenticity come across though in telling that? Do you know what I mean? You're now saying it like you did say a quote, but then yeah, pull back earlier on and I had to punch myself in the face. Yeah, but like, you know, even with putting yourself out on there on LinkedIn and posting about it, it's a hard It's a different type of confidence to like just speaking to anyone at the pub. Like, it's a confidence in what your beliefs stand in true and thinking that other people, you know, I'm not going to force it on you, but here they are. Like, I've, you know, I think I've learned enough in this domain that you can consider what I'm saying as not gospel, but, you know, like, important learning.

Yeah, yeah. And like, it's still all right to appreciate that, like, what you're saying is cheesy and tacky. Like, so like, I literally said something about destiny and choosing your own route earlier, and as I said it, I was like, oh God, that's going to go out to a lot of people to hear. But like, you know, being appreciative that what you're saying is— it's also your own, you know, it's your own perspective and your own feelings. But knowing that it's not going to resonate with everyone's, right? And I think when you start writing or talking about stuff that you don't believe is when it all goes wrong.

Yeah.

And the way that I write is like how I would speak to my friends at a pub or how I would speak to my mates on a phone call. Like, we, you know, I don't care for typos. Like, sometimes there's profanity in there. It's just like a normal authentic conversation. Um, and I just try to write, you know, from my, uh, like, I have a very pessimistic, grey view of the world, and I just try to like approach all of my, um, I just try to approach all of my content that I write and my approach life like through that lens. Like it is crap and it is hard. And like, yeah, you know, like, not drinking is crap, like, because it's— you've got nothing else to do. And the only reason it started, because I had no mates, no girlfriend, and I lived nowhere. And just being honest and upfront about with people. And I think as long as you are that way, when you do say things that are potentially like— you can just go and take it. The amount of people said it to me and I would have just told them to like, take a hike when I was younger, um, would have been through the roof. And now you're the person out there spewing it. But hopefully the people that have followed my content for the last 2 years or so have seen like that authenticity and in, in what I write, and hopefully they might actually, you know, go and realize that you can turn from being a drunkard hungover recruiter to, you know, to building a business. Like, you can just go and do that. And, you know, hopefully there's proof in the pudding of, um, from, from like the journey that, you know, that we, that we both put out there for people to read.

Yeah, I love that mindset that you have because You're very enthusiastic and an outgoing person within, you know, but you say everything through that lens of, you know, being cynical. And what that seems to me is like, for example, you were recently running with Hardiski in Africa with a load of other people and probably like just the most euphoric feeling ever. And like you were able to say, "This was just really fun." You almost probably struggled to even use that lens you're used to, and it made you really appreciate that moment, which I thought was super cool. And it makes that post make that a little more sense. I've met you now, and I'm conscious of time, and this has been a really— I think I could talk to you forever, but I have one final question that I ask all of my guests. And when you first started— well, let's actually say when you first started your footballing career, you would have a certain idea of what a successful career would go on to look like. But now fast forward, having been through recruitment, having started your own business, lots of life lessons along the way, what is your definition of a successful career?

Yeah, that's a really, really tough question. And I think I just, you know, the way that I think I define my own career as successful in this is I have a personal short— I have a personal goal that I want to achieve, and it doesn't involve like helicopters and Lamborghinis and country houses. You know, it involves a future life that I have with my partner, you know, in a nice, small, modest house, not driving a Ferrari or a Porsche, but like, you know, still a smart Volvo.

Yeah.

You know, living near London, not having to worry too much about like, you know, wealth. I still have to work, you know, and I think that's how I would define it is like through a, you know, a goal. Like, can I achieve this state of living? And, you know, and they're not— and they're fairly modest. You know, like my girlfriend loves art and she loves photography and she loves to draw, and I'd love to be able to fund that as her job and her career. And I don't want her to have to work on that. And, you know, and I think I would define my career success by, can I, you know, can I enable my future family and my partner to live in a safe, secure, nice, clean environment where they don't have to worry about work and stuff like that? I think that's how I would define my success in career.

I promise I don't say this every episode and to every guest, but I do, yeah, I feel like I just resonate with him a lot, and I'm sure a lot of our listeners will too. So thanks so much for coming on.

I feel like you lie, you say it to everyone. Thanks very much. It's a real pleasure.