Gabriel Nussbaum, That Money Guy/Co-Founder @ The Creator Space UK

Welcome back to another episode of The Graduate Guide. Today we're joined by Gabriel. Gabriel, welcome to the podcast, mate.

Thank you very much for having me.

So I did call you Gabriel, but you're also known as That Money Guy. Talk to me about what that name means and a little bit about just what you do.

Yeah, absolutely. So Gabriel's fine, by the way. That's what my parents call me. That's my legal name. I haven't quite changed it to that money guy just yet, but the name stems pretty much just from how I'm now recognized because of what I do. So with short-form content in general, which is what I do, and I'll get into that in a second, there's this idea, or it's quite obvious, that you don't get recognized so much. People don't really remember your name because it's swiping, you know, on YouTube, you know, your favorite YouTuber's name. On TikTok, you don't really remember their names. But I was getting approached quite often by people going, hey, aren't you, um, that money guy on TikTok? I was like, you know what, if once people have said it enough, I might as well stick to it. So I officially changed my name to that, and now when people approach me, I'm like, oh, you remembered my name, that's so nice. Um, but to kind of rewind for a second, what I do is, for now, over 3 years, I've been creating short-form, predominantly financial education around anything to do with personal finance. So savings, borrowing, mortgages, debt, investing, you name it, I've covered it. And over the past kind of 3 years, that's evolved into building one of the biggest personal finance brands in the UK, which is pretty cool to say now with over 1.5 million followers across all platforms. And my goal is quite literally to educate this nation on a topic that just isn't taught.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't imagine when you were studying at Imperial this might have been where you thought your career would end up. So what did you think, you know, studying engineering, your, your career would look like back at university?

Not this. You are, you are very spot on. So I mean, there's a reason why engineering teachers call finance the dark side. Um, generally they say like, if you're an engineer, they really want you to go into engineering and not into like the world of finance, which is actually why I ended up going into work has. Um, but yeah, studying that, social media wasn't even a consideration. I love to obviously consume it, download it. I love the idea of educating, uh, being educated on social media, but I also loved educating. I was always tutoring and sharing knowledge and all that kind of good stuff. Um, but never did I expect it to stem into me actually becoming a content creator myself. So when I was studying, yeah, I really didn't know what the future would, um, look like, but I had assumed it was going to be much more, um, corporate worked. Let's call it that way. And that's what I ended up going into. So I ended up going and getting a grad scheme at Barclays to— in finance, corporate grad scheme, doing things like, you know, strategy and data, etc., etc. Um, and that just so happened to be at the same time where I decided, you know what, I might start posting some videos on the internet. And I did that. And obviously there's a lot more nuance to it and a lot more steps along the way, but that's essentially what's what's led me to being who I am today.

And then talk to me about that step into Barclays then. Why did that feel like the right decision for you to make at the time? Um, and, and where was your head at, at that moment in time about being a content creator? Did it seem like a feasible thing to do at the time?

So I went and chose to pursue a career in finance ultimately because every summer I'd done an internship in engineering. So I was studying mechanical engineering, but obviously that skill set is very in demand in the financial world. And in the corporate world. And ultimately, after a few summer internships in engineering, I realized it wasn't quite the right path for me, and I wanted to try something a little bit different and a little bit more general and broad to enhance my skills, which is why I applied to a lot of graduate schemes in a mix between consulting and strategy and corporate roles and all that kind of stuff. As you probably know, and as a lot of your listeners probably know, as a student you apply to a lot of roles and you can't always be— like, beggars can't be choosers all the time. So I had a few options, but the Barclays grad scheme really stood out to me. And the reason why I actually started on social media at the same time was just because, like I said, I'd always loved downloading that educational content. And I said to myself, I don't have time, you know, mechanical engineering, fourth year master's, you're pretty much, if you're not working, you're sleeping. That's kind of your two options for the degree. But then you'd go and join a grad scheme, especially during COVID where at 5:30 you're being told, can you please sign off your laptop? Because they're very aware of the culture and, you know, mental health during the time when you're locked at home. And I was like, it's 5:30, I normally work until 10, 11 o'clock at night, like, and I can't even go out and see my friends. Like, what do I do? Maybe I don't have an excuse to stop creating these videos that I've always kind of considered. Um, and that's kind of what led me to, to doing it. And eventually, kind of like, after just posting and realizing I loved every aspect of it, the skill set that came with it, you know, the creativity side, but also the, you know, little technical editing and all that, those things as well. I realized I loved that, but ultimately I was also trying to find what's that core message that I love teaching. And I tried a few things, I'm not gonna lie. I made one video about the positives of, you know, trying to become a runner. Don't ask why that was a video. But ultimately I was teaching things that I learned myself. So it was about, you know, how to get my graduate scheme, or a bit about personal finance, or doing book reviews on books I was reading. Um, and I started to analyze what I was kind of talking about more and more often. And it was very clear that finance was like an underlying root. I mean, I was working in it. Those were the books that I was reading myself. If I was honest, that was the topic that like my friends and family around me were talking to me and asking me for advice about. And so I was like, why don't I just go all in on that one topic? And so I did. And I switched over from YouTube actually to this new platform at the time called TikTok, which apparently was like the next up and coming thing. And to be honest, it was right quality of content, right time, right place, right topic, and it just went crazy.

And, uh, we're gonna get into what that, that craziness has manifested itself to look like in a career. But before we actually do that, you've— from the outside looking in, it seems like you've always had something going for you. You've always kind of been conscious of your career, whether that being like getting into Imperial or studying an engineering degree that would set you up really well, going into finance. A lot of people would be like that's, you know, a linear way of how to achieve success in your career. Um, but where does that actually stem from? Like, when did you start caring about careers? At what age? And why was it so important to you?

Yeah, I've always been a nerd, to be honest. So, um, I guess in the UK it's around the time when you choose your A-levels is for a lot of people that point where they have to start becoming a bit more career orientated because you can only choose 3, sometimes 4 subjects, sometimes more, but I only picked— I picked 4. And obviously I went down the very, like, I say obviously, I went down the very mathematical route. I did maths, further maths, physics, and economics. And then once you're doing that, I kind of was already starting to think what degree did I want to do. Career was never really too much in mind. I was always kind of just looking one step ahead. I wasn't one of those people that, like, from the age of 12 knew they wanted to I wanted to be a doctor or a lawyer. I just knew that I loved maths and I loved being analytical, but I also loved the practical side as well. Um, and again, like, I've always kind of had that drive education-wise, but I never exactly like had a very clear vision of what I wanted to do. Um, so I knew that it wanted it to be that, and then once I was studying maths and I loved maths but not enough to go and do it at university, but I was also— I chose physics but I didn't love physics enough to go and study that. I was speaking a lot, and I, I find like you get a lot of wisdom from kind of speaking to people that have, you know, walked the path and getting various opinions. And it became very clear that engineering was like the mesh of those two worlds, the practical side of maths and like physics coming together. Um, and then you asked me like, if you'd ask me why I picked mechanical, genuinely couldn't tell you. I was like, what's the most broad one that opens the most number of doors for me? Because I think like for a lot of young people out there that don't have that clear, you know, doctor, lawyer, whatever it is going to be vocation, um, I do think it's just about kind of keeping as many doors open as possible so you don't limit yourself. Um, so for me, mechanical engineering was the answer to that. There are so many careers you can go into analytically off the back of that. And then like I said, I just throughout university trialed a few things, literally trial and error. That, like, that's again coming from an analytical nerdy guy. That's literally how I've chosen my life. You trial things, if they work you push forward, if they don't work, you like take that as a lesson and you understand that you can go and pivot and go into a different route. Um, and through that, I was saying to you before, the reason why I chose a corporate grad scheme in the first place was because I trialed the engineering ones and there was an error, like it wasn't working for me, it wasn't clicking for me. Um, so hopefully that's a nice long-winded answer to explain kind of how my brain works towards that career progression.

It's interesting to know that you, you, well, at least now you accept yourself as being a nerd. Was, was that always the case? Because I think in the UK education system, there might be someone listening to this who thinks like being labeled a nerd has been like detrimental to them. But when was it that you like realized that, okay, actually this is me and I'm going to embrace it and leverage it to, you know, to build my career off the back of it?

Probably when I picked Further Maths as an A-level. Like, you got to be pretty nerdy to do that. I mean I've always liked to have the, the balance, but I think that it's becoming— hopefully it's becoming easier in a way to just be more and more like who you are and be yourself. Because I think with social media, um, and with the ability to kind of connect with people outside of the realm of what you used to be able to connect with, you find your tribe very quickly. And if you've got a tribe to back you up as to who you are, that's kind of the best way to be like as confident as you are about yourself. So like, for example, um, doesn't quite relate to what you're talking about about being a nerd, but being a content creator at the start is a really like— like, I'm trying to think of the right word, but in a way like an embarrassing thing to do. You are posting videos of yourself trying to have some kind of authority on an industry whilst no one's listening to you. And you probably experienced this when you started The Graduate Guide, like you have to start from zero. Um, And the only way that I was able to push through that was because I had like my tribe with me. I was reaching out to other content creators who were also at the beginning of their journey, and we were kind of doing it together. Um, someone who you know well, I think you said you've had him on here, Moti, uh, the airport guy. Me and him, I met him when both of us had zero followers. That's how long our journey's been going together. Um, so I built my tribe through that. Um, I built my foundation system through kind of family and friends who, like the closest ones to me, who would one-on-one tell me they were really like impressed with what I was doing. But you know, in a group setting they'd be like, that's weird, mate, why are you guys doing that? You know, um, but I was fine. I understood deep down what it meant. But that's essentially what allowed me to be me and pursue that career, because it's a really hard thing to do, is to make another video consistently week after week when no one's watching and the people that you're not friends with probably are saying behind your back, let's share this amongst ourselves because it's weird what they're doing. And I suppose that applies to kind of like the way that I'm also talking to myself about being a nerd. I had my friends, I had my tribe, so I was cool with it.

And you are actually the co-founder of, you know, not just a tribe anymore, but the one of the biggest creative communities in the UK. And, and I, I wonder the advice that you sort of give back to younger creators starting at the beginning. I think obviously it is now, whether it's being a YouTuber or anything, it's now seen as a really desirable thing to be. You know, it's like that, I want to be a footballer when I'm older, or I want to be a creator when I'm older. But I think there's an element and you sort of demonstrated this— you do need to have your why locked down for doing it. Otherwise, that's where the self-doubt and cringe comes. Like, you earned your badges and became, like, knowledgeable within the finance world before you started. What would you say to someone who's young, who hasn't quite found out what that is, and in beginning that creator journey?

I think you've hit the nail on the head with kind of finding your, your why. But there are so many young people now that just want to be a content creator regardless of what that means. Because it can mean so many things. Um, and obviously the people that you now aspire to be like have the thing that they're known for. So if you're young and if this is a content, like, a career that you aspire to go down, and if I was speaking to you one-on-one, I would say number one is don't rush into the type of content that you want to create, but just build the reps. So again, I don't care if you're posting like silly videos with your mates, just kind of like trying things out, because from that you'll learn how to cut and edit and how to make a more interesting hook and stuff like that. So you'll learn the skill set. So when you do finally kind of find your voice on what you want to speak about on the internet, um, you'll have the tools to kind of get you going. Um, I think like I said before in the kind of like previous question you're asking as well, I'd always say to them like, you need to be bad at the start. You need to appreciate that you're not going to be good at this and you need to get those reps in. Um, I got told very early on that my first 100 videos were going to be crap, and I was just okay with that. I was also told that I needed to pursue this for at least 2 years without expecting anything in return from a business perspective or from a career perspective, because that's how long it takes for, on average, to kind of break through some kind of threshold. And that threshold might be going from 0 to 1,000, or it might be going from 10,000 to 1 million, but some kind of threshold needs to be broken through. Um, And yeah, you need to, you need to enjoy it ultimately. So, because otherwise, the keyword a lot of people tell you about is consistency, but the only way you can be consistent at something is if you truly are passionate about it. Um, because I can bet you, if you don't enjoy making videos and putting on the internet, but your dream career is being a content creator, 2 years' time, you will never want to pick up a camera again in your entire life. If you do enjoy it, in 2 years' time, if no one's watching, you will still pick up that camera, you will still make that video, because that's what you love to do.

And why is it that you're passionate about the particular field that you make content in? Why do you think it is so important to help our younger generation who have probably missed that education on financial literacy, for example? Like, why for you are you— have you deemed it such a big problem to solve?

I think for me, everything that I know about personal finance is self-taught. I've had to teach it to myself, even though I, like I said to you, I was that maths nerd. I had no idea about finance. Finance and math are two different subjects. Obviously it helps if you want to do some calculations, but we've all got a calculator. You can all ask Siri to do a maths problem for us, so that's fine. Um, I think for me, once I realized that I'd taught myself an entire subject— um, well, not an entire subject, there's so much more for me to learn— but I taught myself enough to be competent to start to have people ask me questions. I realized, wow, like this is something that like everyone needs to be able to do, A, in some kind of subject. But I suppose for me, like with finance, I taught it to myself. I kind of realized it was really simple. And I'm not trying to say that to degrade people because I know there are people in very difficult positions. And that's one of why I say that like finance is really simple, personal finance is really simple, but it's not easy. Um, everyone knows if you make this, you spend this, right? You need to spend less than you make. But that's not so easy to do, especially in the current circumstances. So the concepts are really simple. And then I suppose ultimately the biggest reason I do what I do, like I said, is because I'm self-taught. This was never taught formally in any education system that I went through from the age of 4 to the age of 22. And I know for a fact that's still the same. Some people are luckier than others. Some people grow up in households that teach them about it, and some people go to incredible schools that go beyond the curriculum and do put in lessons around finance. But for me, that one PSHE lesson in Year 9 doesn't count about personal finance education. Um, so the reason I'm so passionate about it is because whether or not you're money-driven or not, um, money is a fundamental pillar in your life. You need it. It's, it's like, unless you go live on an island and live off, you know, the land, you need to know about money. You're going to earn it, so you need to know what to do with it. And I find it crazy that our entire education system is quite literally doing that one thing— it's teaching people how to make money. Right? How to go into a career to ultimately earn something, um, how to become an entrepreneur to ultimately earn money, right? But once you have it, no one is taught what to do with it, and that is so dangerous. Um, there's a stat right now in the UK that 25% of people earning over six figures live paycheck to paycheck. And what scares me about that, A, isn't the fact that such high earners don't even know what to do with their money, and these are probably very clever and smart people to have gone into those positions, But imagine how much that percentage increases when you start to drop the salary and go towards the average salary in the UK, which is £35,000 a year. Um, so for me, again, schools aren't teaching it, so someone needs to go do it. And social media is the best place to connect with especially young people and start to get them interested and knock over that first domino to get them realizing, oh wow, I, I don't actually know how income tax works and I'm gonna have to pay income tax because I'm about to start my job for the first time in my life, and maybe I should now look into savings and budgeting. And that's kind of what inspires me, is when I get that message being like, I watched that one video, I loved it, and now I'm reading a book about personal finance. I'm like, yes, that's, that's my intention, to knock over that first domino.

I think when you think that you do really well in, in your content is taking something that is quite like maybe boring to our generation and actually bringing humor into it and and making it seem more relatable and accessible. You know, you mentioned in those first 100 episodes, for example, that they weren't, you know, the content that you make now, at least. What was it that you realised was going to make a difference in actually changing and taking away the stigma from financial literacy and educating our generation?

Yeah, it was just about you have to meet the people where they are. You know, the whole like, you can't bring the horse to the water. I don't even know. There's a saying there about horses and water. You can't make it drink, right? But essentially I went on these social media platforms and I thought, what I'm talking about is really boring. You said it. Income tax is not a fun topic. Yeah, I've made it go viral. And the way I was able to do that was I went online, I went, what video is capturing my attention? And now how can I just like slip finance into that? So I went online and I'm very well known now for these conversational videos where I basically have a conversation with myself. And that was taken because I found someone talking in a comedy skit doing that exact same format. They were having a back and forth convo and I was like, okay, that style is quite like attractive, right? It just works really well in short form content. Let me just, instead of making it funny, let me just make it about finance. And you have kind of one character that knows the answers and is really smart and the other one who's done something really like stupid or silly. But I kind of didn't wanna say stupid or silly 'cause it's not stupid or silly. They just didn't know. They'd never been taught it, right? So that's why they went down that route. So I gave it a shot and it clicked. I guess the whole aspect is it's got a mild element of entertainment in it. It's not a boring, please learn this lesson about how income tax, the first 20%, like I can hear that's boring. It was someone making the mistake and someone else kind of solving the mistake for them. It was fast-paced, it was short, it was to the point. And by the time someone has even realised they're learning something, the video's over. So I guess in a way I'm trying to trick people into learning.

Oh well, you're doing a good job at tricking me at least. And, and I think when I'm in danger of just asking you what's your best advice to students on, you know, becoming financially literate, but instead to give you a case study. I think for better or for worse, London is where a lot of people make their career, and I think a lot of people just, you know, come on a graduate wage and they really struggle you know, to manage their finances and actually like live in London in a good and healthy way. What would you say to someone who's about to graduate and move to London for their career in how they can be prepared for, for the financial world? The 3 biggest pieces of advice on that.

Wow, 3 biggest pieces of advice. Um, okay, number 1 is, I'll be honest, you're gonna find it very hard to save. A graduate salary and surviving in London is very hard. So what I will ask you to do is just create a saving habit now, regardless of the amount, whether it's literally £1 a week or a month, or whether you're able to do something a bit more significant like £100 a month. Find something, find that number and make it a consistent part of your life. And I'm not going to say like save £1 a month because that's going to make any difference to your future. It's not. But what it means is as that salary starts to rise, which it will do because hopefully right now you're at the lowest earning potential you'll ever be at and it's only up from here, you'll have built a habit. And that habit is one of the hardest ones for people to learn. Like I told you, those 6-figure earners that can't save paycheck to paycheck, that's because they never instilled that habit from the start. So it's not about how much, it's just about doing something and getting used to that feeling that every single month some of your money doesn't belong to the current version of you, it belongs to the future version of you. Um, the second lesson that you're gonna need to learn very quickly is about living below your means. So living below your means is just a concept that— there's another way of saying it, which is lifestyle inflation. As you earn more throughout your career, your gut instinct is going to be like, I need to show that I'm earning more, right? Um, let's get rid of that like old crusty Renault Clio that I drive from 20 years ago that I bought, or instead let me start to lease a Mercedes or a BMW to kind of show my value. And you know what, the place I'm renting, I don't love it so much. Maybe let me move more centrally into London. Um, what I say to someone is obviously those are incredible things and you want to enjoy your achievements, um, but don't do it to the detriment of, you know, your entire life and your entire future. So instead, find a level of living that you're really comfortable at that, like, that, like I said, you're content at. And the trick with finance is if when you get that £500 bonus at the end of the year, if you get that £5,000, you know, handshake to sign, signing bonus, if you get that raise, um, at the end of the year, if you're able to put that entirely towards your savings and continue living at your exact level of lifestyle because you're comfortable in who you are, you're still fine driving that Renault Clio because ultimately you are 23 years old and you don't need to be driving a BMW just yet. If you can do that, you've hacked personal finance. Um, and it's really hard, don't get me wrong. I'm saying it like it's super easy, but with social media and the pressure, like the pressure that people get put under, um, it's so easy to be like, I've got a bit of extra money, I want to like get that nice thing I've had my eye on, etc., etc. Um, but I like to tell people, firstly, try and maintain your level of lifestyle, but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy earning extra money. So, so my kind of like reverse to that, or my argument against it, is go out for a nice meal to celebrate that win, you know. Go out and maybe put a bit of extra money towards your holiday that's coming up, or take your friends out for a drink. Do something to commemorate the achievement. But ultimately, those big things in your life, you know, transport, housing, food, if you can kind of maintain those, that's how you're going to win personal finance. You asked me for 3, didn't you? And I've given you kind of 2, 2 biggies there.

If you don't have a third, then potentially I can propose one. I think, yeah, one of the things that maybe I struggle with at university is, uh, you mentioned earlier about finding your tribe and sort of accepting yourself. I think sometimes people are like actually living beyond their means or spending recklessly from trying to keep up with people that aren't themselves anymore. So what do you think is like the power of actually surrounding yourself with sort of like-minded people in the way you live your life? Like, what contentment can you get from that? That doesn't mean you have to spend money.

Yeah, this is always a tricky one because a lot of the time these are people's closest friends and stuff like that. And like I said, you want to impress your friends and your friends are trying to impress you and you get stuck in this vicious cycle. Um, but at the same time, what you're saying is so powerful, the idea of, you know, you become the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with, which is kind of like a very commonly thing said in kind of the self-development world. And it is really important that if you are really, um, focused on achieving a strong financial outcome, you want to live in London, you want to be secure, you want to save for your future, then ultimately, yeah, you are right, your crowd is going to make a really big difference on that. So I mean, if they are your true friends and they are your closest friends, maybe a bit of a chat to be like, the first time something uncomfortable comes up, instead of buckling to the pressure and, you know, going on that lads holiday that you can't afford, if you can say it early on, guys, I'm afraid, like, I love you, you're my boys, but I just can't, I can't afford this trip. Yeah, if you can set that foundation early, there will be so much more respect from your friendship group than if you wait, you know, 2, 3 years down the line where you've spent all that money and you're feeling awful about yourself, and then you bring up and your friends are like, what? We never— like, what are you on about? You've always been able to afford it. Why can't you afford it now? Um, so I think there's like a balance between re-finding a brand new tribe versus just setting expectations early with this new phase of life that you and your current tribe are going into. Hopefully what will happen off the back of that is you're actually going to inspire your other friends to go down the same route as you. If it's coming to a point where like there's animosity, like maybe you've got to think about the relationships you are building around you. Um, and there are plenty of people that you can find in this huge city that, you know, can build that friendship. Like, like we said, it's so easy now to find in-person communities around certain topics, whether it be what I'm building with the content creator stuff or personal finance groups. Literally, you can find those people, they exist, and you can build a new tribe if you have to.

I think if we apply this to, to careers, it's hard to, to quantify or, you know, evaluate how much financial stress can hold you back in a career sense, in focusing on your work, for example. Um, and I think for you, obviously you've probably always been a bit more financially, you know, or like you've been a bit more aware of how to save and reduce financial stress. How has that actually helped you, you know, for example, take a gamble like quitting a corporate job where you're getting a nice comfortable salary and actually going to do something a bit more risk-taking in your career?

I just run the numbers, you know what I mean? Like, this is always who I, who I've been. I just, I just love to, to run the numbers. And I know what you mean, the kind of financial stress holding people back because they have this goal, um, but they can't pursue it because, like you said, they need that stability. I can explain what happened with me, and maybe that inspires someone else out there. But for me, I didn't just dive straight into a side hustle. I didn't dive straight into my passion. I built it up on my evenings, I built it up on my weekends, I used all of my spare time. I can say it now, but you know that one meeting that you don't really need to be in and you're not going to be a contributor to? I was editing during those on my other laptop. Like, I just was because I was obsessed with it. Um, and it took me 2 years until I quit my job that I was working on this. And I could have quit my job about a year earlier, but I really wanted to build it up to a secure level. So many people think that like it's either quit your job and go all in on this idea that you have, or it's 'Just give up the idea now.' It's not true. If you're really passionate about it, you will find the time to build that, that kind of career goal that you have, maybe outside of work or even in another career. You know, maybe you're stuck in a career that you don't love and you don't know how to kind of pursue another career. Again, outside of work, that networking, that learning, taking on modules and out of, you know, school learning and assessments that you can do within your own free time. If you are really passionate about going and changing the life that you're currently living. And then what happened with me was after 2 years, I'd got it to a point where it was now generating an income. It was matching and sometimes surpassing my Barclays income. And obviously it was a business and it was entrepreneurship, which meant that some months I earn nothing. That still happens today. Some months there is no income. It depends on, you know, what's going on. Um, and that's just going to be part of the evolution of my business. Hopefully I can cut out those months, but for now, that does still happen. Um, but ultimately I'd taken it to that point where it could have been, and it sometimes was, out-earning Barclays. And for me it was a no-brainer. I was 25 years old, I was 2 years into— I'd finished my graduate scheme, I was doing something that was earning good income, and I'd— the other really important factor, which kind of probably sends back to personal finance, is I built a reserve fund or an emergency fund, however you like to call it. I had a huge amount of money that could sustain me for 12 months without me earning another penny from what I wanted to dive into. And I think that was actually my secret hack— 12 months of never earning another penny, uh, in terms of like the runway I had. Now, of course I was going to earn my money. I was already earning money, so I knew that that was going to come in. But that really gave me the stability to kind of take that leap. Um, and don't get me wrong, my parents were still like, are you sure? Like, you're in a nice career, etc., etc. I just thought to myself, you know, like I said, I'm 25. I've literally got nothing to lose. If after 1 year, 2 years, 3 years, this isn't going well for me, I'll be 28. That is young. I can still go back and find another career path, but I'll only have this opportunity really now in my life where I have literally zero responsibility. And ultimately, I call it a risk, but it wasn't— it was a risk to stay in my job and not pursue this.

And sort of alluded to that, that business can be a bit manic-depressive at times. And I think, you know, if you take money out of it and just that maybe the pursuit of growth and success. I think one of the really important things in keeping yourself leveled is having the right mentors, and both from a top— at the top, and from like, you know, from below as well, and constantly learning. I think this community that you've built, and it's, and it's amazing. Anyone who's a creator should definitely check it out. And feel free to, to plug— yeah, all about it. But what do you think has been the significance of of having that community with you in this actual pursuit of a business venture. Because, you know, I've seen the, the effects that it can have in me building out my network and being able to do something that none of my friends around me from university were. Like, it's such an alternative route that you need to find your own people, right?

Yeah. I mean, you can probably tell from like the past whatever, however many minutes we've been speaking, that I've always had community in my life. It's always been an aspect Um, I'm also Jewish, and being Jewish, community is a huge part of kind of the foundation of that religion. Um, and I said to you, like, I met MoTea because I was trying to build another community and another tribe, but that was just selfishly for myself. And ultimately what happened was a few years down the line, I realized, like, this benefit of having people around you is so important because otherwise you're so isolated in what you're trying to do. Um, and especially in the content creator world, like, you're probably doing everything yourself. You're editing, you're trying to come up with videos, you're working at home in your little office or bedroom or whatever you've designed, um, and that's kind of all you know. And obviously I've taken the approach to not be like that, to go out to meet people, but I know that's not the same for everyone. And ultimately I wanted everyone to feel that benefit, so I set up this community. It's called The Creator Space, and it was quite literally just come and meet other people doing what you're doing in public, in a real person, not a Zoom, not an online call, not a text, not a WhatsApp, an actual physical location with some, you know, physical drinks to, to like actually meet people. And I didn't know whether or not it was something that was gonna be so in demand. I just assumed it was because for me it was so important and the results were incredible. The first ever event we did, we, me and my other two co-founders, we invited like 10 creators each that we knew and said, bring whoever you want and tell 'em to bring whoever they want. We had 100 creators turn up that night and everyone was just saying like, this doesn't exist. Like we needed this. I, we need to meet other people doing what we're doing. —like you mentioned before about learning from above and below you—like to learn from what other people are doing, to experience it, to share lessons, to share your own problems, get off your chest from someone that's probably experienced them because they're doing the same thing that you're doing. And it was kind of just like that first event sparked it in my head, like this is something from a business perspective, of course, but also just from like, this is what I've been trying to explain or trying to do myself, but now it's kind of been formalized. And it just evolved. And now we're just trying to figure out what do creators need within this community. We're now over 400 creators within our community, um, based mainly in London. Obviously we'd love to expand, but it's an in-person thing, so for now that's where we're based. Um, and we've run a dozen plus events over the past year where we've brought in people like Ali Abdaal to come and speak to our community. We've partnered with places like Junkyard Golf to come and just let loose. And just now we held an event at a Champneys, a spa hotel outside of London, um, for almost 100 creators with sponsors, some of the biggest brands within the creator industry, with some of the biggest speakers from the creator industry coming down, and everyone wanting to just be part of this community, whether, like I said, whether from a business perspective, from a speaker perspective, or from an attendee perspective. And I think just the whole evidence of surround yourself with amazing people and magic happens was just like on show during that event. And it's something that I'm going to continue to probably do in every aspect of my career. And it'd be like my biggest piece of advice. And I know I'm speaking from a kind of a content creator perspective, but regardless, let's say, you know, you've pursued a career in engineering, find your tribe in that, find your other engineers that like you love, not necessarily from your firm but from all the other firms that, you know, you can learn from each other. When are people going for promotions? What kind of career paths are people taking in that? What are the biggest problems people are struggling with at work, and can you solve it for them? Applies to every industry. Um, unfortunately, sometimes you might have to— or fortunately, you're going to have to be the one to proactively create it.

And you mentioned names like Ali Abdaal there, and, you know, I got some serious FOMO when I knew I couldn't come to that event. And for anybody else who, like me, who's listened to what you're saying and feel like, oh, I wish I was there, like, can I come to the next one? What was so special about for example, that event in Japanese, like, what was the biggest takeaway that creators had when they came there from, from those at the top of their game?

I think for them, these are people that, like I said, they're at the top of their game. These are really top creators in the country that had never been able to meet such a range of other creators in any other aspects of their life. And that's crazy. This is their industry. This is what they do for a job, and they haven't really met their own, like, colleagues basically. So I think just that personal connection. But I think the biggest takeaway and something that I've probably already mentioned was everyone came with a few blockers, maybe a bit of demotivation, some burnout, things that happen within a professional career. And everyone left with all of whatever that was solved. So whether they had a problem, they came, they'd spoken to 5 or 6 people about what was going on, and 5 or 6 people between them had figured out how to solve that problem for them. They came with burnout and lack of energy. They were able to kind of take it slow, listen and get inspired by other people's stories, and go away with 100 ideas of what they were going to do next with their career. So I think, and I'm not going to take credit for this, but all we did as the creators was built the foundations, putting some good education in there, some inspiring speakers, some clever kind of workshops, and then just let the magic happen. Because it's kind of when you put amazing people together the kind of outcomes you can't plan for what the outcomes are going to be, but I think whatever problems people came in with, they came out with them being solved. And yeah, a bit of like a magic black box, basically.

Throw everyone in and it's amazing at the end of it. My final question to you, which I ask every single one of my guests, is that when you first, you know, started Imperial, you would have a certain idea of what a successful career would go on to look like. Fast forward with everything you've learned and achieved along the way, What is your definition of success and how has it changed?

I've never been asked that question. I've never had to think of how to answer that. Wow, um, that is seriously deep. I suppose trying to kind of put myself back in my 18-year-old starting Imperial, um, and putting him into his shoes, success was just about kind of like a good career, right? That's all I really knew. It was get a good job, get a good grad scheme, climb the ladder, find an interesting job or an interesting role, and kind of be excited by work and ultimately earn good money, climb it to the top, retire, go home, um, all that kind of stuff. Um, I think taking the more entrepreneurial switch— and hopefully this still applies because I know there are some people out there that do still want that classic career, let's call it, the idea of, you know, getting a job and pursuing yourself to get to the top of it. Um, I think now it's about, number one, experiences. For me, the things that I've managed to experience already have been incredible, and they just made me want to, like, desire to experience more things, try new things, experiment in new things. I think that's a huge— going to be a huge kind of achievement or success looking back and being like, wow, I did all of that throughout a career. That is like a green tick for me. And I suppose the other thing is this level of drive, or I'm trying to think of the right word because it's not content and happiness for me because I think that comes with pursuing the thing that you really want to do and continually pushing yourself and motivating yourself. So I know it's like really hard to do, but for me, I look back and like year on year, and the best moments for me have been the parts where like I've evolved the most, or I've pushed myself the most, or I've tried something a little bit out of my comfort zone. Um, so for me, I think now success is quite literally constantly putting myself out of my comfort zone. You can't do that 365 days a year, but that's what leads to growth, and growth is what leads to happiness, and happiness is what is success for me. So go back to the first ingredient in that, and it's just about intentionally making myself uncomfortable. Sounds really weird if you take that out of context, but hopefully as part of the answer that makes sense. Gabriel, you've been great.

Thanks so much for coming on.

Thanks for having me.